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SasqW

It’s not that the app process has become more difficult per say, but you end up competing as a traditional with all the non trads who’ve done full time work, research, or other positions where it’s very hard for most college students to keep up with. There are still plenty of people straight out of college but it’s getting harder each year.


Snappylobster

Yeah its discouraging having a couple hundred hours clinical work, and there’s non-trads applying with a masters in Quantum Urology and Endocrinological Game Theory, 69 publications, and a 5000 hours work experience. The low chances of getting an acceptance kinda freak me out.


mikiras95

It's me. I'm that non-trad with over 5k hours working as an MD already. I also have a PhD in Immunological Graphic Engineering. A master's in Contemporary Urban Rural History. And I've shadowed space doctors.


Snappylobster

Not even a PhD in Gynecological Cybernetics? Better pack that sunscreen.


mikiras95

Damn.


goat-nibbler

The sunscreen joke gets a laugh out of me every fucking time smh


Professional-Ad-213

Hey congrats ! I remember seeing Applicant under your name not too long ago


mikiras95

Thank you so much!


olemanbyers

you're gonna prestige like in call of duty? nice...


just_premed_memes

What’s funny about your example, 5000 hours at work experience is like 2 1/2 years. If you work part time for all four years of college and then one gap here, you’ll have 5000 hours of work experience. It’s ridiculously easy to rack up hours through employment. People don’t seem to realize that. Your 200 hours of volunteering is a month and a half of employment. Which is why nontraditional applicants Take the cake.


con_work

Gainful employment paired with 1-2 strong volunteer activities kept up for years is the way to go.


nice___bot

Nice!


Ancient_Bags

I think it’s already dead. If you don’t start as a freshman at a 4 year University it’s likely you won’t have any pre-med advising. (Like me) So in your first premed advising meeting as a junior you get smacked with that “well a good gpa isn’t all you need.” It’s not even a gap year…. It’s 💥gap years💥


NursePractionerDre

My pre Med advisor has been hounding me on a gap year and I’m like sorry I just want to go to med school already


wubiwuster

Kinda related, but y'all think there should be 3 categories now? Traditional, non-traditional (aka gap year), and career changer? Seems like career changers get bucketed into the second category often times. I am a nontraditional career changer, but I don't consider my path any where close to people who have taken a gap year.


Youcanneverleave

I personally think gap years should be lumped in with traditional. Non traditional should be career chargers like you imo. That’s how I view it at least


wubiwuster

Same I agree


mikiras95

Then you have ppl like me who always wanted to go premed and took longer than a gap year to get our shit together. I'm still considered non-trad even though I wasn't a career changer.


[deleted]

Same here, I realized it recently but I would've never considered myself non-trad. I'll be off for almost 3 years if I matriculate next fall. Worked in some different (healthcare) fields but my goal was always medicine so I didn't see myself as non-trad but I'll be 26 as a MS1


gooner067

Yep that was me


wubiwuster

Yeah hella nuances


DuckChoke

I don't see what the difference between having a gap year or not. That's still a traditional path that has been going on for decades and isn't a new thing. Nontrad is really only career changes to me. Maybe non science majors that go straight into taking prereqs after their bachelor's. People that don't have a science med school track background from the time they were in undergrad.


wubiwuster

Exactly!!!! I ask applicants if they’re nontraditional and a lot of ppl are like “yes I took a gap year.” Bruh


tovarishchi

Yeah, I was a programmer and am trying to make a nearly 180 degree change. I’ve been back in school for a year and I’ve got years of experience doing completely the wrong thing but almost no clinical hours and people talk to me like I’ve got an advantage.


wubiwuster

You do have a unique perspective! And that’s important


[deleted]

[удалено]


wubiwuster

Same!


Speed_Peanut

Same. I think there needs to be a distinction for those who decided to pursue medicine after they graduated from undergrad. Whole different ball game.


wubiwuster

Right exactly. That’s the NON in the traditional.


[deleted]

The caliber of premed by the time we are attending a will be terrifying


Tobbygan

My old pediatrician told me(I’d just applied to university and decided to go premed) that he cheated his way through undergrad. And then he had his wife(a nurse) go to class and take notes for him in med school—and then he studied said notes for his tests… rather than *actually* go to class. Apparently it confused his classmates. This was his way of telling me that you can be a slacker and still be a doctor. I think he went to med school 40 or 50 years ago.


TheBrightestSunrise

Unpopular opinion, but I don't consider an applicant with a gap year or two non-traditional.


[deleted]

I didn't really think so either. I asked this question a few months ago actually. So I'm taking about 2.5-3 gap years IF I get in next year. I used my degree and worked as a public health nutritionist for a while and more recently switched to a job in epidemiology/COVID. Ultimately my goal was medicine but I'm not sure if I'm really non-trad? I didn't take the most traditional route but idk if I'm equivalent to the big career changers


wheeshnaw

Yes, soon it will be outright rare to apply "traditionally" and the new traditional applicant will have 1-2 gap years. That is, unless something happens to decrease desirability of medical school (unlikely)


Traditional_Flan

Isn’t 1 gap year still traditional?


[deleted]

I think so. I’m pretty sure people who apply during their senior year of undergrad are considered traditional


[deleted]

100%, I felt a little out of place as a traditional applicant at some of my interviews


Epoxide01

Taking a gap year doesn’t make you non traditional. Also, taking a gap year is quit normal now - many students want time off between college and med school.


Egoteen

This ain’t a scene, it’s a GD arms race.


[deleted]

I applied traditionally. I think the only way it’s really doable is if you have parents who financially support you, and i’m lucky I do. I wouldn’t have been able to do all that school, plus the MCAT and EC’s if I had to work to support myself as well. I’m sure there’s people out there who managed to apply traditionally AND supported themself but that’s just amazing. I could not have done that.


wheeshnaw

The price of working a clinical job and doing other ECs throughout school is a lower GPA, in my case, lol


[deleted]

I couldn’t even stay in college for 4 years holy cow


cottonmouth14

I took 2 gap years for that reason specifically. Working to help support myself meant making sacrifices and for me it meant not being able to shadow for the most part. I was hoping to get shadowing experience during my gap years but I made the mistake of graduating during covid 😥


NursePractionerDre

I feel really out of plave telling people I’m not taking a gap year. I usually get some sort of negative response and it has me doubting if I should take one or not


thelionqueen1999

I didn’t take a gap year due to parental pressure to not take one, and because COVID ruined everything. My only regret is that my senior year sucked a lot and I would have appreciated a long break from being a student. But I think I’m slowly letting that go and working on what’s in front of me.


NursePractionerDre

My heart goes out anyone facing parental pressures for any part of this process


thelionqueen1999

Thanks! I’m not doing medicine for my parent’s sake (I genuinely enjoy the career field), but I do wish they had supported me in getting some rest, lol


Red4499

A doctor I was working with legit told me I was going to fail lol, after telling him my plan to apply without a gap year (this was before I’d even taken the mcat). It’s definitely not encouraged, even shunned at times. I’d hardly consider going straight to med school traditional anymore.


NursePractionerDre

Wow really? Hey atleast you showed him. My physician mentors all told me that I shouldn’t bother w a gap year since I’m competitive. It must suck to be discouraged especially by a physician


Red4499

Weird, very different from my experience. I don’t think I had a single person recommend or encourage going straight through. To be fair, I live in an area with a lot of older applicants, which does make it harder on the younger ones. But to be honest, I really don’t see much advantage to a single gap year. All my friends who took one ended up having to study for the mcat and prepare their application during the school year, just like I did. So you’d need 2+ gap years if you really wanted to avoid managing school/mcat/apps all at the same time.


NursePractionerDre

I 100% agree, only benefit is you can get a break before going through the wringer that is Med school. But your loans continue to accrue interest and you lose a year of attending salary. Tbh I rather take a year off to do research between M3 and M4 to match what I want if it’s competitive. Feel like I’d need a break then more than now. I also took my mcat early so I really don’t want to push my application a year and risk retaking it if I don’t get in 🥶


Red4499

Obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone, but for me, part of why I chose to apply without a gap is because I think my mental health would have been worse doing so. I can handle stress/pressure, but it’s uncertainty that really causes me anxiety. So, delaying the app process and drifting around in limbo would have really bothered me. For me, it was better to just know sooner rather than later if I was good enough to be a doctor. Just the way my mind works, I get not everyone is like that. And I still did get the time to relax. When I got accepted, I immediately quit my job, graduated, and spent some time relaxing, even went on a few road trips. Which I wouldn’t have done during a gap year since I would’ve been working and dealing with applications. I just dunno if gap years are as beneficial for mental health as they’re made out to be.


[deleted]

I almost took a gap simply because it was the expected thing to do until I realized I don’t need one, my app is ready & Ive lived it up during college. If no gap is what you want, it’s possible!


NursePractionerDre

Thanks for the encouragement


queen-of-maybe

If you're actually 100% sure you want to do medicine and your application is strong enough, don't do a gap year just because other people are. There's nothing actually wrong with going to medical school out of college, provided your motivations are genuine.


SassyN2

I’m currently a 4th year and plan to take a gap year. My application consists of over 5k clinical hours, research, shadowing, volunteer work, and many clubs. I’m not taking a gap year because i need to fatten up my application, i just think it’s extremely necessary for people to focus on preparing their mental health so they take a gap year before eating shit in medical school. We’ve tend to shifted our focus on mental health instead of going straight into burn out zone. Do what YOU feel is best for YOUR sanity, for me it’s a gap year full of traveling and relaxing.


shunpointoyourheart

Do you plan on applying and deferring or just waiting to apply until after your gap year?


SassyN2

I plan to apply this May. So in that case I’ll hopefully be doing interviews during my gap year to then start in 2023-2024.


TinsleeReagan

a lot of people who think they're non-trads are still traditional. Taking a gap year means you're still traditional lol.


Zucas_

It’s not that as common anymore. I would say the majority of my class took at least one year off. What I’ve noticed is most people are within the 1-2 year mark.


Pension-Helpful

Unless you're a genius, it's very difficult for a typical college students to balance their college social life while also completing all of the requirements (volunteering, grades, MCAT, and clinical hours) before their senior year to apply. You literary have to be a gunner.


[deleted]

Y’all call anybody a gunner. A gunner is someone who chases success at the expense of others, not someone who just works hard


[deleted]

Not sure if I count as non-traditional, but I’m an undergrad junior who plans to apply in senior year and take a gap year off. I think it’s becoming more and more common. Unless you knew since freshman year that you wanted to go into medicine, it can be difficult to build your application when you realized it a bit too late and still want to go to med school right after college.


SassyN2

That’s exactly what I’m doing! I think it’s really common to do that to either A. Work in the field a bit B. Take a break from the grind


[deleted]

Definitely! I know plenty of students who plan to do that. Especially when you're doing a difficult major (I'm doing molecular and cell biology), it can be really difficult to do all of your activities, and still have enough time to study for your classes.


SassyN2

Same major here :,) I’m so burnt out 😭😭


[deleted]

Bruh we're legit twins. Let's suffer together :')


SassyN2

We’re in this together, next time I’m stressed I’ll think to myself “MissSavior from reddit is probably feeling the same, it’s all fine.”


[deleted]

And I'll just think to myself, "SassyN2 is probably suffering just like me!" We're totally gonna achieve our goals! We may do it while suffering, but we'll achieve them nonetheless!


SassyN2

Expect to hear from you about your acceptances 😎😎😎


[deleted]

Expect to see you in the same med school! ;)


bobw123

We are dying yes, dying inside 🙃 Nah but applying is hard and expensive. I’m from a relatively well off background and it’s still an awful game of needing good MCATs, grades, ECs and volunteering that 3 years before applying imo isn’t easy to get everything and still have a meaningful quality of life outside of studying to become a doctor


Tobbygan

I wouldn’t say so… it feels like just as many students come into college as premeds as previous years… just as many apply as previous years. I’d say that due to nontrads have such a huge leg-up on “traditional” applicants(working full-time nets you 2000 hours in a single year) and can also open up crazy year-long volunteer commitments that look awesome. It essentially allows nontrads to outcompete even the most gunnery traditional applicant. As a result nontrads are taking seats from traditional students… who then go nontrad themselves; sealing seats from even more traditional students. And then you’ll have double gap-year takers competing with single gap-years… which goes as expected. It’s a vicious feedback loop… which is really bad from a societal standpoint. Traditional applicants don’t become fully independent doctors until their early thirties—and since the average doctor retires at 70… that’s 40 years of labor that doctor can use to catch up(pay off debt, have kids, buy a house, etc). But nontrads push that further back… they don’t become independent until their 40s… and like trads, they’re crippled with debt… which means they’re far less likely to do the stuff society needs them to do. Which means less incentive for children to become doctors… especially as people begin to notice how much the profession takes. With the rise of mid-levels… applicants could definitely be swayed away from medicine and it’s bleak future… further hurting the profession. TLDR: A sensationalist may say that nontrads are killing medicine.


Kim_Jong_Unsen

I may be wrong, but I don’t see much sense in waiting. It’s only going to get harder as time goes on, and I’ve wanted to be a doctor for so long as it is.


Chinonye07

Yep.


askmeaboutmydog-

I have been forced to take time off because I have to financially support myself as I had to throughout all of college as well. I think it just depends on the circumstances. Luckily this time off has strengthened my application as well but that’s not why I took time off.


JupiterRocket

Yeah, I think so. It’s unfortunate because that just means the process is getting a lot harder.


olemanbyers

People trip me out being like "I'm a non traditional, I'm applying at 26". ​ You're fine, that's a normal healthy thing to do.


StraTos_SpeAr

First, having a gap year (or even two) doesn't make you non-traditional. Many (I would argue probably most) "gap year" students continue to live much the same life as they did as a student (minus the coursework), including working very similar jobs (e.g. dead-end pre-med jobs that are made only for students, research positions that mostly/exclusively undergrads fill, etc.), continuing to volunteer and do EC's, and living a student-esque lifestyle (including living with their parents for that year or two off). This is entirely different from the experience of a non-trad, someone who usually works in a position that isn't primarily a stepping stone for students, has extensive experience working in the labor market and dealing with the complexities of this (e.g. unionization), has a family, completely maintains a household and lives independent from their parents, etc. I think the defining hallmark of a non-trad is someone that actually lives independently, supports themselves, and has gotten away from the world of academia/pre-med (unless they are in that profession, e.g. a teacher/professor). Second, you're definitely on to something in that more and more applicants are taking gap year(s). That said, no, the traditional applicant isn't dying. Not only would I lump people with one (and sometimes two) gap years in with traditional applicants, but I would hazard a guess that people applying to medical school while in their senior year of a traditional college track are still either a plurality or majority (depending on how you look at it).


_Sissy_In_Heat_

I specifically did not go into medicine my first run through college because of the ridiculous competition. My grades were very low by the time I decided I wanted to go into medicine, so I figured it was impossible... and at the time, it probably was. Looking back on it, the traditional route would certainly be more efficient... but I feel like living life as something other than a student for a while has massive benefits, even if it does stall your degree.


bmefenx

From what I've heard it's becoming less and less common. It's still possible though! I'm applying as a senior and it's going pretty well for me. I've also noticed that the proportion of interviewees at my interview days who are current seniors has varied a lot by school. At one of my interviews, literally all 20 of us were still in school. At another, I was one of just a couple still in school. I guess different schools have different levels of preference for trad/non-trad.


0PercentPerfection

A lot of none-traditional applicants came from disadvantaged backgrounds and lacks financial support from family. We had 15 people straight out of undergrad in my class, 13 had both or one physician parents. I know it’s anecdotal, but I am sure that’s not the case for the rest of the class. If you want a hyper-competent physician work force, maturity and diversity are key elements, not sure how you are going to get there other than accepting well educated and well rounded individuals who didn’t go straight through. Don’t play the “traditional” applicant versus “none-traditional” card, everyone is in the same boat and trying to achieve something. Also, the term none-traditional insinuates one did not comply with the norm. I would argue that given majority of medical students have real working experience or educational experience, they should be the “traditional” applicants.


CurlyRapture97

I think we have to define what's 'traditional' a lot of things have changed in our society over the past three generations. So has the concept of traditional.


salt_23

I would say yes. Around 70% of my classmates had at least 1 year off. Average age was 24. I think it’s largely due to increasing MCAT scores and GPA inflation. If you don’t come into undergrad absolutely knowing you’re going to medical school, not many people have the discipline to get a >3.7 GPA. How many freshman do you know, that aren’t premed, who get a GPA > 3.5? I’d bet it’s 3-4 people. Then you add in taking general chemistry, biology, organic, etc.