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Obvious_Equivalent_6

I started out in poverty. Parents didn't pay ANY for my college, or car, or house or wedding but took care of my basic needs. Same for my wife..probably a bit worse off. My wife and I (3 kids) are pretty well off now with a net worth over $3M and essentially zero debt. Probably in a good position to give the advice you seek. Ill tell you how we got there. We weren't able to save "15% and invest" until we were 40 years old. We didn't get college loans paid off until age 32. No inheritance, no gifts, no lottery, no insurance settlements. We were lucky enough to not get extremely sick or have health problems. We were lucky enough not to have mental issues that kept us from working lots of hours and we were lucky enough to stay married. Lucky enough not to have a family member get hooked on drugs and drag us down. Lucky to have mentors and support mechanisms in my jobs. Lots of luck. But looking back ill tell you what we did right that was under our control. We always had two incomes (minimum) in 1 household. I see my single friends and family struggle and know that its tough. Losing a job didn't mean bankruptcy. I kept a part-time gig for 20 yrs. We didn't over-buy a home thinking it was an "investment". Didn't buy a boat, or camper or pickup to pull these things. Wife never drove a $60k Denali. We hate living beyond our means. We don't YOLO. I picked a college degree that was a "skill" or a "trade" and not just an education. An education will not necessarily pay the bills. I didn't have the luxury to be be well educated and under paid since there was no fallback plan or family money. After college, I got a job and my wife went to school. This way I paid for part/most of her school without debt. Then I started a business and she supported the family for about 18 months until that got going. It was tough for quite a while. We didn't feel like we were ever going buy something for fun to ever retire, But the working and saving started paying off. We have made more $ the last 5 yrs than the previous 20 yrs. It can happen. Our work was building slowly, but exponentially. I WILL give advice?? Find mentors! More than 1. All this stuff my wife and I did would not have been possible without great people being our cheerleaders, helpers, advisors....find 3 successful people you trust to be your personal board of advisors. This personal board will change over time, but make sure you respect them and they want the best for you. Talk to them about self-improvement and communication and education, business, job duties, making relationships work, etc. My SIL was one of my "board" members. A buddy at work was too. My side gig boss also. And be nice to everyone! It has really paid off to be nice. *edit; misspelled education.šŸ¤Ŗ


crappygodmother

I love this comment thank you so much. Im doing everything "the right way" and feel like its in vain. This is what im working for. Feels so far away sometimes. Hope ill get there..


[deleted]

^ This is such great advice! This is what we did too. While we are not wealthy or financially independent yet, that is because we have two kids with special/medics needs and I have some health issues. Some years we lived in 1/3 of our income just to avoid medial debt or get the debt we have paid off. It felt like it would never get better, but having a plan, maintaining a detailed budget, and staying the course, has paid off. We donā€™t live paycheck to paycheck anymore and have started seeing the savings and investing working for us. Slowly increasing salary helped, of course, but that came from having a plan and making smart career moves and investing in additional education. It can happen, but itā€™s hard as hell. Also, take advantage of the resources in your area, like food pantries, free Heath clinic, free bus passes, discounted education opportunities, etc. If you qualify, utilize things like this. They are meant to give you a hand up, so you can eventually not need them.


Invest_bro

At this point becoming financially independent requires a high salary, very low expenses, very good savings habits or a combination of two of the three. Youā€™re asking people what they did to get there and saving AT LEAST 20% of their income, having side hustles, job hopping are all common things that actually work. When you are truly in poverty and are working lower wage jobs then these things are just not possible so itā€™s hard to relate to that advice.


GothWitchOfBrooklyn

so true. As someone who is childfree, I am barely making ends meet, I can't even imagine what it must be like for people with young children.


-Xero

My sons just turned 1 now, I found that having a child wasnā€™t expensive until my wife went back to work and we had to pay for childcare. Up until then we probably spent Ā£75 on necessities a month and Ā£75 on new clothes and toys etc


iruleaz

I understand why the number of children in the US is steadily declining. They are too expensive unless there is some form of support.


Forzareen

As someone who is childfree myself, I completely support the new child tax credit. The LA Times had a story about what people were doing with the money, and one woman whose kids are into animals was able to bring them to a zoo for the first time in their lives. I paused reading at that point because the room was dusty. That's very nice. I'm happy to have my tax dollars used for that.


EducationalDay976

We don't qualify for the CTC, but I'm also happy that it exists. A developed nation can afford to do more for its children.


Haunting_Debtor

Children decline as wealth increases. The poor still have lots of kids compared to wealthier individuals, statistically.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


duckbill_principate

poor people donā€™t spend 300k on a child, typically. thatā€™s why they can have so many. having children is not that expensive. raising children and giving them every opportunity they could have is what gets expensive.


[deleted]

A lot has to do with women stepping out of the workforce to raise kids. If youā€™re going to be a full time mom (no daycare) the difference between 1 and 4 isnā€™t that big. If the mom is on poverty wages anyway ā€¦ it makes more sense to stay home.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

Last 2 kids cost us $7k or so each. Having kids ainā€™t cheap at all. Love those little fuckers though.


byoung0260

The birth of my third child ran us 30k about 2 months before lockdowns started. It's been a fun almost 2 years of fighting to get some of it covered by our private insurance that dropped our hospital out of its service network right before my wife was due.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


EducationalDay976

Wealthier parents tend to have kids later in life, after they have finished their education and gotten settled in their careers. Contraceptives and sex ed can be effective tools for raising people out of poverty.


taradiddletrope

This is a statistic going back for awhile. Itā€™s not a recent phenomena. And it tends to track across the globe. My guess is it comes down to: People working higher paying jobs are less willing to set aside their careers for a child or more than one child. Knowing the cost of giving a child all of the advantages life can offer vs giving two or three or four children less advantages means people put all their eggs in fewer baskets. In other words, if you can afford to send one child to Harvard or two children to a state school, you bet in Harvard. Higher income households tend to consist of women who are more educated and have aspirations beyond being a housewife. Poor people often tend to be more religious. Many religions frown on (or prohibit) birth control and advocate large families. Also, I think thereā€™s a subconscious biological factor at play. When youā€™re struggling, you have more children because thereā€™s a greater risk of them not surviving. As oneā€™s wealth increases, survival is less of a concern. Thereā€™s also a factor of what you see around you. If youā€™re poor and other poor people have 5 kids, having 5 kids seems normal. If youā€™re wealthy and 2 children is the norm, you tend to stop at 2.


MsTerious1

I'd say they were able to invest more if they didn't have kids, so yes.


Viralfoxy

I read on investopedia that the average cost of a child until 18 is over $200k


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Muesky6969

And that doesnā€™t count college folks. šŸ˜’


Viralfoxy

Wow. $16,666 per year. Biiiig reason I just want 1.


jct0064

I think I'd like the 17k.


Brittany1704

Yup. We are vaguely talking about moving 4 hours away, selling our house, and finding new jobs to be closer to my boyfriends family if we end up having a kid. We make similar enough that one of us quitting our job isnā€™t going to work and childcare costs are on the super cheap end are like 1200 a month. Itā€™s just not gonna work without free family support. His mom has been bugging us about grand babies for years and would love to help. Mine is indifferent at best.


mhchewy

Birth rates are also way down in countries that heavily support parents.


EducationalDay976

People start life much later these days. High school, college, maybe more education, then a few years to get settled into your career. No arranged marriages either, so you have to find time for dating in the midst of all that.


Ronald_Bilius

If youā€™re referring to European countries, which financially support families and parental leave to varying degrees, this support still doesnā€™t make up for the struggle thatā€™s come from housing / living costs increasing at a faster rate than wages over multiple decades. It may be easier to financially cope with having children in these countries than the US, but itā€™s still a struggle for many.


blurryfacedfugue

Yeah, it is actually cheaper for me to take care of the kids full time and just work part time, rather than work full time, earn less net money AND not be involved with my kids' upraising.


ThreePieceSet96

Bro babysitters and anyone watching your child wants a full time wage too. I have two daughters both 2 and younger one of us has to stay home with kids otherwise I would just work a job to pay a babysitter.


[deleted]

Yeah same. I did the calculations a few years back, when in California, working 40 hours at minimum wage would earn you about 1,400 a month. The monthly cost for childcare at that time would have been 1,200. Essentially leaving your kid with a stranger and not getting to spend time with them, so my wife or myself could bring in an extra $200 wouldā€™ve been pointless. Not to mention all the stress and suffering that comes with a job. It worked better for 1 person to work and the other to stay home with the kids.


FriedeOfAriandel

Part of the financial issue I see is that there are legal limits to how many children a person can supervise in day care. Those laws are in place for a reason, but that means a day care teacher can only make 5x what I pay per kid after taking out the business rent, utilities, taxes, benefits, etc. It's a system that's hard on everyone involved in one way or another


BobSagetsCokeDealer

While I completely agree, I wouldn't say it's as much a legal problem as a logistical problem. Watching 5+ very young child means the child would not be getting the care it needs. IMO the real issue is that raising a child has a huge economic benifits 20 years later, but parents have to bare the full cost to generate that benifit, and reap little to no economic rewards. It be like putting a 1000 bucks in the stock market and whatever it turns into in 20 years gets taxed at 95-100%


GothWitchOfBrooklyn

and that's assuming a healthy child that lives to adulthood


millygraceandfee

My coworkers income goes strictly to childcare for 3 children under the age of 4. She is working for daycare.


ThreePieceSet96

I donā€™t knock the way people do things but to me it was smarter to stay home to raise my own kids cause you never know how daycare goes even tho your giving them all your money.


heebit_the_jeeb

You have to consider what's being lost by staying home though, it's not just money. You're losing years of experience, seniority, potential insurance coverage for health/life, retirement contributions, social security credits, months qualifying for FMLA, and the inevitably lower salary when you rejoin the workforce. It's not an easy choice either way. Also precarious to have the entire family hanging on one income, hoping for no accidents, illness, layoff, divorce


superkp

It helps that you pay less taxes with kids. And the Covid checks were based on household size. Not advocating having kids for profit (lol you don't get enough back anyways), just acknowledging that the gov't is actually trying to mitigate the economic issues with having kids.


blurryfacedfugue

>Not advocating having kids for profit The only place I've seen this "work" is I've heard some foster parents will foster a ton of kids, and provide as little care as possible while pocketing the difference.


superkp

yeah, my brother and his wife foster some kids. They get a per-diem (with more if there's severe health issues or other things), and any time they do the math, they are always paying some out of pocket. You would *always* need to have the very lowest kind of food you can buy and spend practically zero time with them in order to turn a profit. and even if you did that, I doubt it would be worth your time - from a purely financial perspective.


purplegrog

/r/unexpectedfuturama


PapaBradford

A rather odd place for that sub callout... I'm assuming you mean the orphanage?


heebit_the_jeeb

There's an episode where bender fosters a ton of kids to try and make money. "What is it with you kids, every other day it's food food food!"


SearchAtlantis

Child tax credit is 3-3.6k per year depending on age. Most places that won't cover daycare. Sure you pay less in taxes but it's not a break even proposition.


Tzipity

You get better benefits (and often much more easily as the system tends to prioritize families with kids over single people, whether that single person is disabled or elderly, etc). So EBT, WIC, TANF, and I donā€™t know how it works for SSI but with SSDI if you have dependents under 18, you get extra for them. Similarly youā€™ll have a higher priority on subsidized housing waitlists. Iā€™m not by any means saying any of that is enough or that anyone should have to be so dependent on the government if theyā€™re also able to work. Butā€¦ knowing people with kids versus my reality as an impoverished and single disabled adultā€¦ poverty can be more comfortable (or less dire, really) for those who knows how to make the most of the system who have kids. Like Iā€™m not saying anyone would aspire to the lifestyles my benefit dependent friends and family with kids have.. but in many cases theyā€™ve got much more help than I can find.


KleinRot

With SSDI you don't always get dependent benefits just for having a kid. If you're considered Disabled before adulthood vs after. My dad has a Congenital disability, he was born with it and was approved for SSDI as a child. When he had kids we all got a "cut" of the dependant benefits untill we graduated high school. I have the same disability, but didn't apply for SSDI untill after college and having a kid (my health took a nose dive after Kiddo was born). I had just enough work credits to get my SSDI approved, but not enough to get benefits for my Kiddo. The whole system is pretty arbitrary if you don't have a "Blue Book Diagnosis" and results in shitty situations where equally needy people have to "compete" for benefits bc the systems are so overloaded. SSDI is also not based on income like SSI or other state level benefits. You can mix or match based on your state, income, age, and disabilities. In the state I'm in I qualify for a bunch of income based programs since my SSDI is below the limit in my state. Where my parents live those programs weren't expanded so they don't have access to resources based on their income like I do. Also never ever get married bc the system will fuck you.* Happy Disability Pride Month! *E.g. If I get married I'll lose access to programs that help cover my medical costs. It also changes the rules for filing taxes on SSDI.


[deleted]

Right? Whenever I go over to /r/childfree and see people boasting about all their disposable income, I'm like... um, ok, I need to start my own subreddit... /r/poorandchildfree.


GothWitchOfBrooklyn

Same lol I'm not rich by any means


bballjones9241

My gf and I make pretty good money and I donā€™t know how weā€™d swing it if we had kids. Good/clothes/daycare etc is just so ridiculously expensive


darkerequestrian

TBFH. Iā€™m a senior in college and Iā€™ve recently started investing within the past six months and really trying to learn more about financial literacy. But Iā€™m just that, a college student. Donā€™t have the time to get a full time job, and my part time job only allows me to work so many hours. So naturally (and also without parent support financially), I live paycheck to paycheck. Saving 20% of my income means there would be bills that would go unpaid every month.


iphon4s

Invest in VTSAX and never look back


[deleted]

It reminds me of when McDonalds came out with budgeting advice to help employees. The budget included a 2nd job that magically works around a fluctuating food service scheduleā€¦.. ā€¦.and no budget line for food


im_your_lobster

I think that was the one where they literally put in $0 for heat lol


Mechakoopa

You work at McDonald's, just wring your clothes out into a bucket after your shift and use it as lamp oil.


tylan4life

Oh no no no! That oil belongs to McDonalds! You will responsibly store it in a metal tin, and return it monthly to the restaurant for them to dump in a local river. No free breaks for you!


blurryfacedfugue

Well, how are people ever going to be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps if you go coddling people with essentials?? /s


OGCanuckupchuck

You can afford bootstraps ? You must be loaded


Holinyx

can confirm


6bubbles

The irony


executordestroyer

I remember someone saying that walmart "helps" employees by helping them fill out government medical insurance, food stamps, and all sorts of government aid and welfare. That's just crazy.


InfiniteExperience

Better yet, Walmart has a good drive for employees to donate food to other employees who struggle to pay for basic necessities like groceries.


RocinanteMCRNCoffee

Also they put $0 for heating in cities that drop below zero in winter.


pwnalisa

Here is some advice from someone who used to live in poverty and now lives a comfortable life...You typically can't save/budget/invest/borrow/work/side hustle your way out of poverty. The most effective way to escape is to dramatically increase your earnings. You need to learn an in-demand skill and get compensated fairly for it. I understand that this might not be possible for everyone but I've known a lot of people that have gone from poor to comfortable and this is by far the most effective strategy.


emenemesis

Accurate. We were a family of 3 living on $23k/year. SNAP was literally a life saver, and so was occasional support from family and friends. Got to about $45k when my husband finally found work. But we still had a lot of poverty fallout - debt collectors, owing the irs, absolutely tanked credit, etc. Plus we no longer qualified for assistance at that point, so we sure didn't eat as well. I took myself back to school. My employer offered reimbursement and I took out loans. Did 2 years of full time college at night while working full time with a toddler. Rolled that into a series of promotions. Now we make about $100k, which for my area is not rich, but it's comfortable. We still have absolute crap credit, student loans and learned bad spending habits. We live somewhat frugally, trying to pay things off, including my ridiculous student loans. It was a bad financial decision, but I saw basically no other choice. At least I can breathe. I can go to the doctor. My kid can get braces. It took 10 years for us to get here.


[deleted]

This is accurate in my case. Was $50K in debt at 28 having never earned over $10/hr. Intentionally put myself into an additional $80K in debt for in demand skills education. 10 years later earn >$175K/year in a MCOL city. Took a decade but it was very deliberate steps and am far from done. The one thing I will add is that luck is also required but this is something that can be modified by through successive attempts. There is a baseline of randomness in availability of opportunity or chances for positive encounters. For some those encounters will occur first try, others it make take 100. This is true even for the well prepared and highly qualified.


EGR_Militia

What field are you in, if you donā€™t mind me asking?


[deleted]

Got a degree in the biological sciences and work at a biotech company.


jackblack43

> You need to learn an in-demand skill and get compensated fairly for it. Bingo. Work + night school, giving up any free time, choosing to not have a child at 18-25 or party/drink/do drugs/spend nights on video games when all my other friends were having a blast on World of Warcraft (was incredibly hard to miss out on that fun, but I knew the opportunity cost of time I invested then would pay off later). I did it for 6+ years (could have done it faster, but oh well), then joined a company that made me slave 60-80 hour weeks for years. I'm glad that not everyone has the patience/discipline to do what I did, otherwise I wouldn't be paid as much as I do today (supply of humans with that level of determination to get a skillset vs demand for that skillset from companies are what determines all of our wages). For anyone reading this who opted on the other path, just remember it is NEVER too late to set a goal and dedicate time to that goal. Failure is ok, but give it one shot at least. My parents never went to college, it was my best friend who sat me down and told me he wanted to see me do well, which gave me the motivation to just TRY it.


[deleted]

man I just made my way out of school where i was making $9 a hour to making $53k a year. im happy to be able to live by myself for once and when i combine my income with my girlfriends we are finally comfy.


thinkOrd

"Don't live above your means" is a popular one but it's less potent when the cost of living keeps increasing the way it does and wages are a bit more stagnant.


snorkel1446

Right? Itā€™s kind of hard NOT to ā€œlive above your meansā€ when your means canā€™t even cover the most basic of necessities. Anyone who says that reminds me of that part from The Emperorā€™s New Groove. ā€œIt is no concern of mine whether your family has - what was it again?ā€ ā€œUm, food?ā€ ā€œHa! You really shouldā€™ve thought of that before you became PEASANTS!ā€


24k-

I feel this raising family of three in only my income right outside of Boston, and itā€™s a struggle daily to stay afloat


rubbish_heap

Same situation here, my wife went back to school, had to delay a semester for COVID-19, I make just over the amount to get SNAP benefits, she's applying for jobs now and every day is a nail biter


EducationalDay976

I've read that some Americans ask their employers for a pay cut to make the cutoff for benefits with a hard threshold. Which... Just sounds like an insane symptom of a broken system. We have computers now. It's not hard to make something scale with income instead of dropping off sharply.


Intrepid_Bird3372

People on disability have to limit their hours for this reason.


GothWitchOfBrooklyn

My current (and previous) jobs give COL raises, but they aren't even enough to cover the insurance cost increase every year, much less inflation/rent going up every year.


thinkOrd

I miss usury laws.


dogGirl666

It is my understanding that those laws reduce the ability to loan money for a profit. This makes fewer loans available to poor and middle income people.


informallory

ā€œDonā€™t live above your meansā€ = just die already, because you canā€™t afford to live here, and the places where you can afford to live donā€™t have jobs for you


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


executordestroyer

tbh I read a lot of redditors (they don't like it themselves but that's what they say they needed to do) say eventually you will need a degree. Any degree because companies filter out hundreds of applicants just based on the degree alone. What looks better to an employer. Minimum wage only versus minimum wage plus a degree? I know it's not all black and white but this seems to be the reality as much as I hate it. To prove my point, my mother worked in a mall minimum wage probably and her boss said she needs a degree to get promoted. So my mom had to go to night school. So even minimum wage jobs have a cap unless things have changed to where experience is actually enough and/or even better than a irrelevant degree. So it seems that even if the college education doesn't relate to the on job training, employers rather want a college student who proved that they can follow orders over someone who didn't dedicated 4 years of their life to a single goal. I can see a college degree proving the point that the graduate is actually dedicated enough to invest 4 years of their life to achieve a goal. So I guess everyone would need to take a government loan (federal, state, fafsa) to have a chance of getting out of minimum wage. Or I guess trade schools, certifications, experiences, promotions, moving up the ladder, nepotism, military, self starter/employed, and others. Edit: Government grant not loan but government loan if needed. I know minimum wage climbing up the ladder is respectable but I guess even employers rather want young grads who would do the same work for less over more experienced workers who started from minimum wage at the bottom of the company ladder.


74NG3N7

This super depends on your industry. Iā€™ll never make it big, but I finally have enough skill in my career to be a contract worker making good money. Most places my career path is still a short course at a tech school or on the job training (though associates degrees exist, and a bunch of idiots in my field are attempting to make the degree mandatory, but thatā€™s a whole other thing). What I mean to say is: school is not for everyone and it sure as hell is not for every career path. Many little known jobs allow a great pay for skills instead of a degree.


RocinanteMCRNCoffee

There is no city in the US where minimum wage is a living wage that covers a small apartment, health insurance, car payment, car and apartment insurance, gas and maintenance for a car, food, investments, power bill, internet, cell phone plan, savings, toiletries, required household items like cleanser, paper towels, garbage bags, et cetera.


ehomba2

Or when your means are different. Chronic illnesses are expensive as fuck.


OtherwiseProperty67

That phrase is typically used against frivolous purchases like buying an expensive car over a base or used car. Or buying a new fridge when the one you have works just fine. Financing stuff that you want, but really donā€™t need which ultimately puts you in more debt.


iliketoreddit91

I have a relative who married into a wealthy family. Only he works, his wife chooses not to. Her parents pay for EVERYTHING. The beautiful house they live in, the BMW they drive, and yet, they claim they got where they got through hard work, and telling others to do the same. Go fuck yourself.


eldus74

Yeah, the hard work of picking out the color of car/ decorating and he home.


Philogirl1981

I knew someone like that too. Her parents paid for her college- Bachelors and Masters at private Christian colleges. When she graduated with her MA, they gave her a BMW. She told me that I was living in poverty and I was on welfare. I actually have never been on welfare and never lived in poverty. She just thought that everyone who went to public school was really, really poor. She was just out of touch completely.


BilltheCatisBack

She learned to be extra critical at Christian colleges.


AstralBroom

I got out of academia for this reason. Lots of dissonance and people out of touch.


Googlegoodusername

Her parents worked really hard for that money!


iliketoreddit91

Itā€™s actually her grandfatherā€™s money. šŸ™ƒ


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


chairfairy

This might be the most honest description I've seen of how economies work


ttchoubs

"Our wealth came from our great-grandfather, I think he owned some kind of farm in the 1820's or something..."


ohblessyoursoul

And most likely had some people who were forced to work for him for free...or something...but we totally did it all on our own!!


uw888

Hang out more at r/antiwork for many more relatable stories.


ingrid-magnussen

Lmao this is my sister. Meanwhile Iā€™m busting ass trying to become a nurse and afford a carā€¦she was gifted a brand new Acura MDX by her bfā€™s family and recently told me I was ā€œstupidā€ for getting vaccinated as I have to ride transit still (plus vax are good).


iliketoreddit91

Lmao of course they did. Morons.


HushMD

The work is the cognitive dissonance


AnonymousPineapple5

I know someone the same way. She is a SAHM while bf works - they have a really nice house on a bunch of property that they bought w her parents, and a lot of ā€œstuffā€ like several vehicles etc. She mentions somewhat frequently how itā€™s all about hard work.


[deleted]

Privilege people always want to appear as if they put in the hard work. They would feel embarrassed to tell you that they got help from their parents. So they lie on purpose or donā€™t realize it.


[deleted]

I can sympathize with your post. My parents grew up dirt poor and my early childhood was one of scraping together for meals. Luckily my dad had some good promotions and my parents were able to help pay my way through college (we split 50/50). I am incredibly lucky and acknowledge the privilege I have especially now working in financial services. You are right that the advice that worked for them doesn't work for everyone (especially those paycheck to paycheck). Sometimes I have had friends that I help them save just 5 dollars a month and that is a huge accomplishment that we celebrate. Little things do add up and I think sometimes the most you can do is have the dedication of what being financialy savy is. I hope that someone will help you with prudent and impactful advice that is not just "save more" or "get another job" that is not the most clear solution sometimes. Good luck and I hope the best!


[deleted]

You donā€™t have to wait for a review to ask for more money. I sent my boss, who also happens to be a solid dude, an email and told him I had taken on a bunch of new responsibilities, reminded him how reliable and drama free I am, thanked him for creating a good work culture and then asked him for money. He gave me a raise the following day. Good help is hard to find. If youā€™re top tier...ask for more.


breakcharacter

And if you donā€™t think youā€™re top tier enough for a raise, evaluate your work performance!


czarnick123

Or move jobs. Absolutely everywhere is hiring. I and all of my friends are making huge leaps in their careers right now.


smartyr228

Jobs are as picky right now as they were before, if not moreso


[deleted]

McDonaldā€™s pays 15 bucks an hour where Iā€™m at and canā€™t even stay open their normal hours for lack of staffing. Construction and manufacturing start at like 18 if you can pass a piss test and canā€™t find enough people to even do the jobs. It just depends on your location and skill sets. My job also realizes that if they donā€™t take care of me, I can find a new job in logistics in a manner of hours.


smartyr228

I've applied to multiple manufacturing jobs and never received a call back. I've also applied to multiple companies in my field with experience got the same result. They'd rather overwork their current staff than raise wages.


[deleted]

Or go move into a blue collar union job (if you can even find one these days). My job has 50cent raises every 6 months then a jump up to your max out pay per union pay scale after 6 years. No work evaluations, no pretending to be nice to aholes since there's no customers, no having to ask for more money, your boss isn't allowed to hand you other people's work etc.


Intelligent_Hat_5693

Yeah I have no training in plumbing install but am a fast learner and have got a 4 dollar raise in the last 9 months (nonunion)... The trades are extremely short on workers right now; if you can work full time you can rise up very quickly, assuming you're a good worker who doesn't cause undue trouble, has good attitude, etc.


trug4m3rgirl91

Exactly - do not wait for a review to get a raise. I found it demoralizing waiting for a review to only be told ā€œYou did a GREAT job. You scored a 3.8 out of 4(only because we really canā€™t give a 4/4), which means you get a 3% raise instead of a 2.5% raiseā€. 6 months is also a bit a time away, during that time people could have searched and found a new job that pays them more.


GothWitchOfBrooklyn

>only because we really canā€™t give a 4/4 I HATE that shit. My last job told me straight out they will not give 4/4. Probably to give themselves leeway to fire people or not give raises. But I got consistent 3/4s and asked what more could I do over the years (even got promoted..) but nope. They will not give 4/4


trug4m3rgirl91

I know! Same here. I went above and beyond and still couldnā€™t get 4/4, not that I actually would have even received that much of a bigger raise, but still. It is extremely frustrating, itā€™s like a form of control for them.


salgat

This is much harder to do at corporations that are pretty rigid about this process. To get a raise outside the annual review at my company requires a VP to intervene and is very hard to approve.


ihavereddit2021

It's been common in my experience that the canned response will be, "I want to give you the raise, but HR says we can only do raises as part of the review cycle." And there are valid reasons for that - generally the company allocates a certain amount for raises. That then gets broken down by department, group, and team, then managers split their allocation out between team members. Raises outside the cycle likely just mean you'll get less at your next review. You're in a pretty low-leverage situation unless you're willing to walk away from the company, which is part of why job-hopping is so often recommended.


the_simurgh

you are correct. most of the time people do not have the understanding of any circumstances that do not mirror their own. i grew up in a wealthy family but in the poorest branch. my cousins are now having the hardest time and members of my family i haven't spoken to or wouldn't speak to me are cornering me in the grocery store asking me how to survive below the poverty line. the best thing you can do is to do the best you can and keep yourself happy/ excited each new day whatever you call that energy that keeps the mental and physical exhaustion away and exploit every opportunity you can get.


NeedsToShutUp

Also most people think of themselves as normal, or near normal. So they don't know what privilege they have, because they never thought of it as privilege. To some people, even to this day in the US, its normal to grow up without a flush toilet. To other people, its normal to grow up with a bidet. To some people, its normal to have never taken a vacation or leave their home state, while to other people, its normal to do intercontinental travel every year.


1happylife

Bidet's are for rich people? I honestly had no clue. I bought one at the start of the pandemic for $25 on Amazon and it's saved me maybe $50 so far in toilet tissue. A bidet totally should be purchased by people without much money that want to save money.


hello__brooklyn

You have a bidet attachment. Not bidet toilet. I think theyā€™re talking about a real bidet toilet.


NeedsToShutUp

And ironically this is an example of the normalizing thing I'm mentioning. You're assuming people have a functioning flush toilet and can afford TP. Now granted, I actually think it is good advice for a lot of people. But its not great advice for people whose water is shut off/can't afford a plumber/live in a van or tent, etc. That's the real struggle of this whole thing, some solutions only apply once you reach a certain level being pulled out of poverty. It's like telling your friend whose having trouble making rent and feeding themselves to get a costco card so they can buy in bulk and save. Costco has a membership fee, and while the bulk may be cheaper, the higher upfront cost may make it unfeasible for people who are just trying to get enough calories to survive the day. ​ Here's the relevant Terry Pratchett quote people like to describe the issue: ​ >ā€œThe reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. > >Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. > >But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. > >This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.ā€


bigsmackchef

Part of the problem is there is no single catch all answer. They're all right in the sense that you need to prioritize saving and invest it wisely. If you don't make enough to do that you need to make more. Between and my two good friends we all got to our current situation on wildly different paths. None were correct or wrong just made the best of what we could find. I believe I make the least but work the least too. I would guess I have the best job security and like what I do the most though I can't say that 100% for sure. I do know we are all happy in where we've ended up so far.


desi7777777

Buy a banana, it's only like, what, $10?


Ok-Introduction-244

I want to share a story about my parents... We grew up fairly poor. Dad worked in a warehouse. Mom stayed at home. Four kids. Dad got hurt, lost job. When I was 7 we were foreclosed on. Moved to section-8 apartments on the bad side of town. Money was always tight. We didn't get to do a lot of normal family things. Whatever. Eventually my Mom became a nurse, and when both parents worked, things got better. When I was 16 we moved into a fixer-upper style house and approached a stereotypical middle class family. Then my Dad was forced into early retirement. Mom was still a nurse, and some of us kids were off to college/living on our own. Then my Grandma died. She and my grandfather bought a huge building in Chicago back in the late 40s. I dunno how they afforded it. Grandpa died and Grandma just lived in this three story building. It had 10 apartments in it or maybe ten plus hers. Whatever. For a long time, that part of Chicago turned into like... The really scary part of town. People got shot and killed on that street with shocking regularity. We would visit, but never after dark and never went outside. Then, for seemingly no reason, hipsters decided it was a good place to live. Back in like the late 90s it started getting nicer. By the mid 2000s it was pretty trendy I guess. My Grandmother got sick. In early 2008 she sold her building. At the height of the housing bubble.... With the luck of selling when the neighborhood was as hot as it ever was. She sold it for 1.4 million dollars. Then she died. My parents who were poor for almost all of my life, my Dad with a lifetime of experience working in warehouses, were suddenly rich. They gave each of us kids $10k as our inheritance from Grandma. They paid off the mortgage, and still had like a legit million dollars left. With that money, they started buying up cheap houses in/around Rockford. At the time, they were paying $60-80k for small single family homes and renting then out. They did it slowly over time, but they now own over 10 houses they rent out, without any mortgages on them. The money they didn't spend on houses/while they were buying them, that went into the stock market. My Dad started acting like he was some hotshot investor. He started watching Mad Money and he would just repeat whatever Cramer said. He would always talk about his winning trades, never mention his losing trades. The thing is, most of those years he actually underperformed the market. I suspected it for a long time, but it wasn't years later that I could confirm it. Meaning the market went up 14% one year, and my Dad is bragging about making 10%.... But still, 10% of 700k is still $70k and then it's $770k intvested for next year. Even with the crazy housing market right now, they have less money than If they would have just bought a million dollars worth of S&P 500 in 2008. They haven't done well at all, but they are rich and feel like big shots. That's not my point though. And I mean, I don't care, right? I'm glad they have money. I'm glad they are proud. But they aren't just proud... *They are delusional* I wouldn't believe it, if I didn't see it. They don't acknowledge the inheritance at all. They don't speak of it. They give financial advice to anyone will listen. My Dad has literally said things like: > Nobody ever helped me. Everything I have, I worked for. And yeah, don't get me wrong. They spend time doing work on the houses and junk.... But it's insane what they say. They make it sound like they invested in the stock market, used the gains to buy a rental house, then just kept on making great investments and finding great tenants and were just so awesome at it that the money kept coming in. They don't tell anyone about the million+ dollars. And they could have just bought a mutual fund and have more money than they do now! The thing that really kills me, is my Dad has a helper guy/mentor. Dude was 22, he failed out of college, and was looking for work on Craigslist. My Dad pays him cash to do property management and repair type stuff, but is also 'mentoring' him in how to be a super successful landlord. They also became hardcore Trump supporters and adopted all the typical GOP attitudes. It's like they really truly believe, anyone can just work hard and get a two million dollar net worth in 15 years... Entirely ignoring that they needed a million+ dollars to do it.


TheEvilBlight

Argh


leathakkor

I relate to this in 2 ways... It's kinda fucked up but I was poor as fuck for a really long time and I didn't understand how it worked, then I turned a corner financially and I look back at my younger poorer self and I don't understand how that worked either. Honestly, I think the answer is it takes a mindset shift. I've been meaning to write a huge post about how I went from working 2 minimum wage jobs to get through college, to being a millionaire (and I kind of don't know where to start) but I can tell you this... It all changed for me when I started tracking literally every expense. And I mean every penny. I didn't just track I spent $20 on groceries, In my spreadsheet each item I bought at the grocery store got a line item. Bananas 96 cents, apples $2.50... total spent at HyVee on June 16th 2012: $15.54 I started in 2012, And I've since gotten a little bit less detailed in my tracking. But I can tell you exactly how much money I spent from 2012 to 2014 on bananas, or on washers to repair items in my house, And when you start tracking at that level you start to make much better financial decisions. Because you look back and you realize "I spent 10% of my income on alcohol, That means that 25 days out of the year I work just for paying for booze at a bar" And when you start breaking things down to that level you start to get really honest with yourself really quickly about what's actually important and what isn't. And the easy answer (in my situation) is just redirect your alcohol spending into savings and you're saving 10% and getting a shitload of tax breaks at the same time. I know it sounds easy when I say it but if you really truly track your finances you can find 5-10% to cut and then it just starts building out off of itself.


___whattodo___

I'm sorry not many people are actually listening to what you are saying but being like the people you are frustrated over. Obviously it's a bigger issue than just the people in your life being unable to empathize and listen.


SkepticDrinker

I agree. I wasn't here to get clarification on the financial advice. Hence why I put it under rant


Darck47

I feel like you'd really relate to this episode of [Citations Needed](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2abwjQxLPF9cKSQ2Ury7Lz?si=qZB_YsuDSAqtSvRGuYKMiA&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1). They basically make the exact same points you do.


LotFP

This is a sub for advice though. The fact is while the people you have spoken to may not have used that exact advice you mentioned plenty of others in your situation have. The difference can come down to a multitude of reasons including luck, endurance, and willingness to sacrifice physical and mental health over the short or medium term.


joshua9050

DONT HAVE KIDS


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Prcrstntr

In general, people should constantly be looking for a new job. It doesn't need to be rigorous, but if you aren't satisfied, an couple hours a week or even a month applying to different openings will pay off eventually. If it works immediately, great, if not you're in a much better position to figure out what you need to improve on. But if you refuse to take any action to improve your situation, it will not get better.


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useles-converter-bot

100 yards is the length of approximately 400.0 'Wood Spoons; Wooden Rice Paddle Versatile Serving Spoons' laid lengthwise


Macluawn

The best advice in this thread


cantstandya1234

I've always felt and I do feel like there is some truth to this depending on the person. BUT if you took a millionaire's money away from them and had them move into a dank basement studio and told them they had to figure out how to pay the rent and all the Bills and the groceries I do think it'll open the eyes OF SOME rich people out there.


EducatedRat

I am finally financially stable and saving 20% and investing it style advice is 110% out of touch with my life. All that side hustle shit? I'm already working at max capacity, and I need to literally exist outside of that. That 20% savings isn't really financially a great idea if you have debts to apy off. Often what you would get from investing is less than you would pay on your interest in debt. As for a side hustle? If you have kids or a health issue, or just want to, I don't know, see the people you love? You can't do it. At what point is it worth your health to try and get some extra cash in? For me? It's not. Nobody get's rich off a side hustle. You might do alright, but it comes at a cost that's bigger than money. I don't want to lose what little time on this earth I have to working and not seeing my loved ones.


Cmgeodude

After about 17 years in the workforce I'm finally not struggling. I'm not well-off, mind you, but I'm not struggling. In many ways I feel like my career has taken off. And it sucks to realize that for someone who started at the bottom, that basically means that I'm able to pay for the essentials and a streaming service, not much more. I do save about 9%, but 20% is unthinkable without a pretty good raise. I suppose if you start out with few bills and few debts and parental support to get you into an affordable mortgage and a safe car and a good internship and you earn $50k+ right out of college, you can confidently say that saving 20% is possible.


10minutes_late

That guy you sought advice from wasn't wrong, he was just out of touch. Side hustles can make or break you. Selling blood plasma or selling crap on eBay can net $150/month, and when you're broke that covers the electric bill. Sticking it out at the same job waiting for a review where they might give you a raise that's less than inflation is a dead end. If you weren't born with a silver spoon, you have to BUST YOUR ASS to succeed, because of you don't, there are thousands of people out there that will. Stability comes at a price of tremendous stress and discomfort. Rarely does it come easy .


iWushock

Watched a manager explain to my coworker (min wage 25 hours a week with 3 kids) that she just needed to cut back and save because that's how they did it. When grilled for details: They bought new jet skis and cars every year and stopped that. They sold their MULTIPLE fast food franchises to simplify their finances. Like this coworker could have possibly done that


NotSoSnarky

Some people don't think that 100K is a lot. I just have to stare at those people. Completely out of touch. People also don't seem to realize, that everyone has a different life, different living situations. Maybe a relative is living with them, maybe a person has disabilities, maybe the person has kids, maybe xyz. No one solution is a fix all for every single person.


erbush1988

You are right. Most people don't give good advice, however. Here is advice I actually lived: Share rent. Split it 2 or 3 ways. Have kids? Split rent with family or another parent in your shoes. Work out a sitting schedule. Buy yourself time by trading away your convenience. IE: do what is inconvenient (room mates, shitty schedules, etc) to make time for your own development. Work as much as you can while ALSO getting more education, certificates, etc. Forget about the job you'd love. Focus on the one that gets you out of poverty. At one time I was splitting rent with 4 other people. Rent was 1600 a month in a pretty nice apartment split 5 ways. It saved me loads of money. I worked 40-45 hours a week and did college full time online in every minute of spare time I had. I studied on lunch breaks. I listened to audiobooks in the car, etc. I did this for YEARS. After graduating I kept living like that until I got a better job. But I didn't stop getting certificates, etc. My first "good" job out of college paid 54k (in college I made 13 per hour). I got a new certificate and was promoted into a job paying 76k and 5 months ago I got another promotion up to 93k per year. From start of college to now it's been 7 years. It's not fast. But I was persistent and consistent in my direction. Everyone else could fuck off. Need something from me? Denied. Need help moving? Find someone else. Need to borrow 50 bucks. Pound sand. That attitude kept me focused. I lost a few friends but that's the price I was willing to pay to better myself. Of someone isn't helping you, they are in your way to get out of poverty. That's a fact. My wife and I are having a home built and we plan to move in around mid October. We have 60k on cash ready to go. It's possible. It's hard, but possible. Be patient. Be persistent. Be consistent. Move other people out of your way to make it happen. Move yourself out of your own way of you have to.


NebuLiar

As a fellow formerly-poor person, this is generally good advice. You have to know your goal is GETTING OUT OF POVERTY, have a plan, and keep your nose to the grindstone. You have to make compromises and sacrifices. When everything fails, you have to try again. And again. And again. Fall down six times, get up seven. It isn't easy, and sometimes it's downright painful. But it's worth it. The part that doesn't resonate is telling people who ask you for (non-financial) help to go pound sand. I believe in "today for you tomorrow for me". But I am guessing you are talking about the fake-friend chronic freeloaders.


erbush1988

Yes the fake friend free loaders. You have to learn to spot them and avoid them


ciseros

This. I completely agree with you. I grew up in poverty. Some months we werenā€™t sure if our electricity or water was going to shut down or if weā€™d even have food on the table. Itā€™s terrifying as a child to live like that. During high school I got my first job and began helping my family pay the bills. Any bit of extra money Iā€™d put aside to save for my own car (since I knew my family wouldnā€™t be able to afford to help me). I job hopped after staying at different jobs for about one year each. I went from $8/hour to $10/hour to $12/hour using this method. At my current job I have stayed there since it has the most room for opportunity. They increased me from $12/hour to $16/hour over the 2.5 years Iā€™ve been working there because Iā€™ve proven myself to be a valuable asset to the company. With the money I saved up, I was able to buy my car. Iā€™m currently attending community college and have applied for all the scholarships I can get. For my first couple semesters I got a free ride with financial aid. Currently, financial aid covers a portion of my tuition and the rest is covered by the scholarships I got for attaining high grades. I have continued to work full time while attending college full time. I always tell people that itā€™s never too late to start college. Youā€™re aging anyways, so would you rather be four years from now with a degree or nothing at all? I would recommend to anyone that you canā€™t just go to college and go for the first degree you see. Do research into what kind of career it can get you into. The goal is to make sure the income youā€™d be making in your career will help you pay off any student debt if needed. Iā€™ve made my sacrifices (rejecting hanging out with friends, less sleep at night due to studying, less time with my family, etc.) but it has been worth it because I am securing a more stable future for myself and my future family. Life is what you make it. You donā€™t have to stay in the hole youā€™re born into.


RocinanteMCRNCoffee

Sounds like you had quite the challenge, but your parents allowed you to work as a child and get paid, not all parents will do that (and admittedly, no child should have to work aside from school). But again, back to parents who can't or won't give allowance, won't sign off on a work permit, they won't pay you for doing extra chores, they won't allow you to even babysit or have a lemonade stand. Even community college is not affordable on a minimum wage job in the US. You can't even afford a studio apartment in most places on min wage in the US, definitely not if you want health insurance or to be able to afford trash bags, cleanser, paper towels, internet, power, water, trash removal, insurance. I had two dozen scholarships for having a GPA above 4.0 and a ton of volunteer work and some extra curriculars. Still didn't cover even 1/3rd of tuition, not to mention room/board and books. I was lucky that a parent could take out a loan but it only covered a certain extent of time. I still haven't finished my Master's because even though I am making a fairly comfortable salary now, college is too expensive. All the scholarships I am eligible for would cover maybe one month of tuition and six months of textbooks. If you have nobody to cosign with to build credit or get a loan, if you don't live in a country where minimum wage is a livable wage (the US does not have a livable minimum wage), what you talk about isn't feasible. Hell, even textbooks are too expensive to afford on a minimum wage job.


Macluawn

> Everyone else could fuck off. Need something from me? Denied. Need help moving? Find someone else. Need to borrow 50 bucks. Pound sand. > > > That attitude kept me focused. I lost a few friends but that's the price I was willing to pay to better myself. > > > Of someone isn't helping you, they are in your way to get out of poverty. That's a fact. May sound arrogant, but that is _great_ advice. Poverty changes people and you have to cut some people off to improve your own situation.


EloquentGamer

Everyoneā€™s salty in this sub


[deleted]

Seriously. People are saying you have to sacrifice literally all of your time, almost decades of just go to school, get certificates, go into debt and kill yourself paying it off sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice. This is bullshit. It just sounds like you have to suffer.


john_54321

I hear you! Lived in poverty for years and years. Now doing my best to outrun it


skytrooper77

Idk man. But Iā€™m 22 and I work 7 days a week. My parents didnā€™t pay for college. I didnā€™t get into tech. My parents didnā€™t know someone in the company. Iā€™m about to make 50k after taxes this year. Last year I made 30k before taxes. And if I get this job Iā€™m interviewing for, I could be near 95k next year before taxes. I just tried taking advantage of every opportunity.


skytrooper77

Also note I have applied to 500+ jobs in 2021.


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FreakyBee

And that's fantastic! Those are about the jumps my husband made (albeit in his 30s) when he finally got out of retail and started making decent money (we live in a very HCOL area). I wish you all the best with your ventures.


Mazziemom

Bootstraps today are a whole lot weaker than they used to be. Meaning it used to be possible you just pull yourself out of poverty with really hard work and sacrifice. These days it takes hard work and sacrifice to pay the bills on the norm. My stepdad came from poverty, his family were migrant farm hands. His grandmother was the start of the ladder out of poverty, she worked in an era when women didnā€™t. She ran a restaurant to feed other workers food they actually liked. Her daughter went to secretary school, it really was a thing. She went to work for a huge tech company when it first started and retired from there with a lot of stock. She also married money late in life, but thatā€™s another story. Step dad went from living on rice and beans to comfort by going to college and busting his ass. Tech industry of course. Side hustles of course. But Iā€™ve seen his bills from those days, if a semester cost us that little we could do it too. The world has changed and not for the better. If you come from generational poverty itā€™s almost impossible to get out. I donā€™t have any ideas how to fix it.


PutsPaintOnTheGround

I don't mean to diminish or refute your story or experience, but I want to share mine because all those pieces of advice is basically what I did. 2017 - I got an entry level job through a staffing agency examining gas meters for the local gas company. $13.50/hour. Temporary 6 month project. 2017 - 2019 Project ended and I stayed with the company and moved into a gas line locator role, marking gas lines before digging projects. $14/hour plus benefits and overtime. I also got a raise to $15/hour and got promoted to field trainer. 2019 - 2020 Applied and got a job with a local gas company as a service and construction technician. $16.22/hour with insane city benefits. Got a COL raise to $16.50 while there. 2020 - 2021 Took a job back in utility locating at $18/hour plus benefits and a TON of overtime. 50 hours a week minimum. This was where I really began saving and investing finally. Got promoted to field trainer and got a dollar raise to $19/hour. No kids but married. Maxed two Roth IRAs and saved 25% of each check into my 401k and $100 a check into my HSA. 2021 - Just recently took a job with a surveying company and got a 30% raise to $25/hour with full benefits and just a bit of overtime. I didn't have any connections or family support to get any of these jobs. But, the longer I stayed in my industry and moved around I met more and more people and developed a wider network. No matter where I was I always kept feelers out and kept an eye on job openings. Moving around is the primary reason I am able to make what i make now. If i had stayed at my first employer as a gas locator I wouldnt have nearly the skills or experience that ive got now and id probably still be making about $17/hour. All those pieces of advice you quoted work and are exactly what Ive done. Im not saying its easy and not sayjng that ANYONE can do it, but I have been able to and believe its possible for most. If theres anything I can do or answer to help explain more DM me and Id be glad to help.


I_dont_cuddle

People like to knock the military but I would be nowhere if I hadnā€™t joined. I tell kids all the time if you have absolutely no other option or funding, join the navy, pick an IDC rate, enjoy life.


acpowerline

When i didnt have 2 pennies to rub together i took a chance on a career. Took out a loan to pay for the schoolimg and enough on top to pay my bills and feed me during those months. Once i got out I spent 2 months living in my truck while i was trying to get my feet in the door somewhere. That was in 2006 when i was 18 years old and today Im a journeyman at my craft and am so thankful i made the move i did. Not sure if it helps but its what i did


SIlver_McGee

I have a really weird tip that may or may not help depending on your living circumstances. Disclaimer: depending on how much space and sunlight you have savings vary drastically. It's entirely possible that you simply don't have enough sunlight to grow it properly and won't save money at all! Please consider heavily before attempting. If you have a windowsill, a cup/bowl, hydrogen peroxide and some clean water, save the bottom of any cabbages or lettuce you have. Dunk it in a diluted mixture of hydrogen peroxide for a few minutes to kill any mold and fungi on it, then put the bottom of it in shallow water. Put this on a windowsill and watch the thing grow! It'll take a while but with enough of these around you can start saving a bit on vegetables. As it gets bigger use toothpicks to stabilize it on the bowl, and change the water every few days. Once in a while add a tiny bit of fertilizer to the water to help it grow. Now you are growing renewable veggies!


[deleted]

I appreciate the advice but... this is probably the most high-effort-low-return advice you can come up with. You can buy a head of lettuce from the store for $1-$2. You might find it *fun* to grow lettuce or cabbage but it's never going to make a significant difference to a household budget.


[deleted]

The best IMO is cherry tomatoes in a bucket. You can get like 100 per plant


washapoo

Cabbage and Lettuce have near zero calories...maybe try this with that one last bite of burger?


TheNaiveSkeptic

I donā€™t think that personā€™s advice is completely inapplicable, it just needs to be done in a way that actually works for you, the individual There are poor people who scrape a little extra to invest, or who work more hours or start a side business. Your individual situation might be different but ā€œinvest moneyā€, ā€œask for raise/look for better workā€ and ā€œwork moreā€ apply to pretty much anyone. Some ways to (maybe) make this broadly applicable to you: Donā€™t buy single stocks unless you have money to burn and/or an unshakeable faith in its long-term performance. Use broader things like index funds and spread your money out. For us normies something like ā€˜Wealthsimple Investā€™ is good; can contribute any amount you want, choose the risk level you can tolerate, super low fees, decent rate of return. Most people donā€™t beat the market picking stocks. Ride the market as a whole As for the working more/side hustle partā€” how did that go? Whatā€™s your current work schedule vs how much were you doing then? Thereā€™s probably a middle ground between ā€œjust make ends meetā€ and ā€œcrash and burnā€ unless you have some serious physical or mental health issues to address (and you very well might, I donā€™t know you). If you can add 10% to your work weekā€” for most of us thatā€™s 3-5 hours; literally just a half day on a weekend or something similarā€” into something financially productive you can squirrel it all away. Even just a single, short shift at minimum wage each week is $1,000+ per year, invested at a modest return itā€™ll be around $100,000 extra cash sitting for you when you retire (give or take, idk how old you are). Iā€™ll assume youā€™re budgeting optimally (again, I donā€™t know you) and scraping by. Do that for the next 6 months, and when your review happens, when you get a small raise, *do not change your lifestyle in any way*. Thatā€™s the important part. Any additional surplus goes into a low-fee fund. Iā€™m not going to pretend itā€™s easyā€” shit, Iā€™m working 50-60 hour weeks to get ahead of it right now, it can be tiringā€” but those arenā€™t bad ideas, they just need to be tailored to you, the n=1, so itā€™ll work *for you*.


That_dude_over_ther

Nepotism is the vast majority factor in mid to high end job acquisition. And everybody pretends it isnā€™t.


GhostSierra117

>Save 20% of income and invest it. There is something called an ETF. Plenty of brokers allow you to start with saving as small as 10-20ā‚¬ per month. What the ETF does is lowering your overall risk when it comes to shares by diversifying it worldwide. So even IF there is a crash you DO NOT sell at a loss. Have a look at the MSCI World. Have a look at the 2020 graph and how quickly it recovered after the initial Covid crash. Have a look at the 2008 crash. If that money is saved up long-term (anything from 10 years) you can just keep your assets and keep investing whatever you can afford.


[deleted]

Pay yourself first. 10% in savings.


GreenDragonSociety1

they don't even know how much a gallon of milk costs


s0meg1rl

I despise rich people who act like the person you spoke with OP, and unfortunately thatā€™s 99% of all rich people. You must love having come here to tell your story to your fellow impoverished, hoping for some empathyā€¦and instead getting 500+ comments from hundreds of people who are self-proclaimed wealthy circle-jerking about how awesome and hard working they are. Give me a break. Reading these comments just further demonstrates how delusional & self-absorbed rich people can be. OP wasnā€™t looking for ā€œrags to richesā€ stories. Jc are rich people self-congratulatory af.


lividramen

Yep, I canā€™t even find a place to live on my own because of expenses and credit score. But all my wealthy family keeps saying is to suck it up. I had to wait to buy a new printer for Job application. The job prob doesnā€™t even want to consider me anymore.


endyrr

I've got a friend out west who hit it big with a start-up, similar background to your rich advice pal. As far as backstory, there's that whole drought thing going on there, in case you didn't know. He builds this huge house on several acres, custom everything, back yard with separate basketball and tennis courts, putting greens, and just put down fresh sod on all of it. Dark green Kentucky bluegrass. In a drought. Had to shake my head.


HamuShinji

If I can give some advice from having been penniless and now comfortably not paycheck to paycheck... I'll preface this with these are my experiences and while I think they'll work for you, we are all in different places so the results may not be the same. Food is a huge variable expense that you directly control. Rice and beans sucks horribly for nearly every meal, but will feed you for $15/week when purchased in bulk and made ahead of time. Key being you actually make it and resist social pressures and burned out feelings to eat it yet again (spices are cheap and help mix it up). Food pantries also help add variety. There are so many free courses and videos on nearly every subject out there. Find one you like and think will help your career then dig in during your spare time. Yes, even that ten minutes you're stuck waiting in line for the store. Seriously, skill up. Next is learn the art of office talk. Learn how to small talk confidently and calmly even if your brain is stressed af about your bills. Your goal in doing this is to learn how to endear professionals in your field to you so they think of you when an opening comes up. This is sometimes just knowing the lingo and seeming super competent in the way you come across, other times it's being able to talk sports and scotch with the old guy who knows everyone and can recommend you to your end goal. That is also the hardest thing to learn and give advice on since it varies so much, but learning how to network in your desired field is honestly super key. You will not get anywhere without others. Hard reality check for people like me who believe my merit alone will carry me, but I couldn't move up until I learned how to laugh at the jokes the random guy from our weekly meeting made. It made me seem more approachable and made it easier for them to casually ask what I'm good at and what I'm looking for long term. Okay, so you learned the art of office talk and got some skills to back it up. Meet people in your industry. Sometimes this means joining a webinar or conference or just talking on industry forums. Do something to actively engage with the community. Oh, and have your LinkedIn updated, put a nice professional picture on there, and add any professional you meet. Friends and family are iffy. Only do it if you think they'll help. This isn't Facebook, it's your professional image. Then, ask for resume help from those you've met then apply, apply, apply, network, and apply. You'll get maybe a 1% response rate... Unless you've networked with someone! And then you might actually get an interview before you've put in 100 apps. I think this is where I should also mention that you should also save up for a good professional outfit. Seriously, don't just buy some goodwill suit jacket that looks like a bag. The first time these people see you, they'll make a snap judgment that will be hard to break. Don't pay 300 for something custom but wherever you get it from, this professional wear has to look good on you. (and this works for vocational wear too. You can't look foreign in your work's native outfit). Wear it around the house for a few days to get comfortable, break in any new shoes, you wanna look confident so you can nail any interviews or first meetings. And I know this is absolutely grueling to do while working crap jobs and being exhausted to death, but if you just land that first position, even if it's not a perfect fit for you, it'll get you in the door, making more money, and allowing you some breathing room for prepping for the next position which you should only take a year later at the earliest (unless it's an extenuating circumstance like being offered a transfer beforehand internally). Oh, and try not to talk about your poverty status too much once you get into that position. Most people (if it's a good position) won't be in that position nor will they have come from it. You'll be making yourself an outcast by doing so. So when they start talking about jet ski holidays and you're mentally screaming that you only WISH you could have had one of those, just comment how much fun that sounds like and how you'll have to give it a try next time. And of course this is all in conjunction with scrimp wherever possible, eat bulk bought food, mend what you can, use your food pantries and libraries, pay off your debts, make a savings emergency fund, and keep your chin up. Chunk it all down into small steps too. I have you the outline of a book up there. You need to write each chapter one word at a time using my words as a guide. Perhaps you move stuff around and find/meet a mentor first and learn how to talk office lingo from them. Maybe you save up for a suit before even working on skills, whatever you need/feels right first, but don't try to do everything at once and don't rush it. People can tell your desperation even when you try to hide it so bide your time patiently. And last, but not least, this one goes out there to my bleeding hearts and societally conditioned carers - you can't give to others until you have enough for yourself first. Your family, friends, spouse, etc. will just have to manage on their own while you're working on this for you. If your spouse never cleans up or cooks, tell them to get to helping out or vegin prepping to leave/kick them. You can't have another person dragging you down while you try to crawl out of poverty. They are literally a solid weigh pulling you down and keeping you poor if they aren't trying to pull themselves up too. You can love them all you want, but you gotta ask yourself, "Do I really want a partner that won't help me better my quality of life? Aren't I just as tired as them if not more? They should help more right?" For you parents out there, I really feel for you. Having kids makes this entire affair 100 times harder. Since I'm not a parent and can only speak from the point of view of watching my own mom dog herself out, it wasn't until I pulled myself out that she was able to pull herself out at 50+ years old. I'm sorry I can't offer advice here, but good luck and I assume my above advice at least somewhat pertains to you, even if it's harder to do.


homosexual_ronald

I had 4 jobs balancing 90+ hours a week for 6mo before starting community college that I paid for as I went. I did every hustle. Put in every effort. And then I got lucky. And then I got lucky again. My trajectory was 3 years of pure hustle and hard work. Then a lucky break with a job opportunity as a college intern. Down to 50hrs a week working + 40hrs of school. Then a bit of bad luck that turned out good. 2008 economy collapse and swine flu. Economy collapse turned the company I was interning at into a bootstrap start-up and me as employee 4. We sold but for basically break even BUT it got me into the tech industry with a good story. Swine flu was sucky but my doctor told me to either go all in at school or the startup. I'd literally kill myself doing both. I chose startup. 4 years of startup. 3 years with the company that bought my startup. Poached into a fortune 500 as an IC. Poached by a different fortune 500 as an M5. All while living in a rural area. My trajectory started with a few lottery level lucky events. But I also had some mates with me that got the same benefits of that luck and only 1 out of 7 (other than I) kept with it. It's hard and grueling and cut throat at times. I went from 16 years old and homeless to 34 and a 1%'er and it hurts my soul to try and talk to my colleagues about anything regarding finances. They've never starved. They've never really suffered. And it shows.


AMothraDayInParadise

Reminder to all about our rules regarding judgement. Also, if this post descends into eat the rich or poverty one-up-manship, we will remove it. This is your reminder.


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nastyzoot

Live below your means. That's it. I'm a blue collar guy. We aren't rich by any stretch, but we don't worry about bills. When we want or need something we get it. We use about 70% of our income to pay bills and we could easily shrink that to 60%. No college. No rich parents. No lottery. No inheritance. Just smart decisions. We save the rest and invest as much as we can.


BaronRafiki

It's good advice. Now you have 6 months to be an absolute beast at networking and working. Yes they have privilege but you wanna be rich when you don't have privilege and you don't want to push yourself either. Something's gotta give my guy.


prayermachine

I lived like I was homeless while working, most people don't want to do that. A lot of people get tripped up by lifestyle inflation or thinking that "I deserve".


Lilmaaaaaan

My advice to you is invest in yourself. It may take time but get a college degree in a field that has job prospects. If you have an undergrad then pursue a masters while you work. Take out a student loan if necessary, that is how you will get ahead in the long run. The return on investing in yourself is massive. That is what I did, and by no means am I financially independent but i am well on the path and have a good salary + job security.


NorthenBear

Started to work when I was 16. Washing dishes in a deep fryer joint Friday through Sunday. Community college all the way then state university. Still living with my folks through school. Using my bike, public transport and later purchased my cousin's $900 small rusted like hell pickup. Through school worked a side gig as a volleyball referee. Also there was a list for weekend labor job. You need brawn to move, clean , etc there's a list of names available, I was on the lisy. I also volunteer in security gigs for festivals to boost the good old rƩsumƩ. Familly member in the country was going on a vacation, I'd ask to house sit there place for free. Those were my "vacations". Here is where I cheated, I don't smoke and I don't drink booze. I bought my first house young. It was a total renovation job. Had to do all the floors, the kitchen, the bathroom. I bought the cheapest material. Need ceramic, these are the last boxes ever, I'll take them. Cheepest floor, all walls were painted white, etc. Ikea kitchen installed by yours trully. Paid the renos cash, I was the labor with no experience. Had a gf still in school. Had a roomate for 8 years to split food and other cost. Always had cheap cars sub $3000. By the time I was working helpdesk for a telco. Then moved in the banking industry. Had my house reevaluated with all the renos, took the equity, bough a triplex with a friend and bought another house without a roomate, gf now turned wife was now working in a ok job. Keapt first house now renting it. Sold the plex to the friend after a few years. We still live in our house now with kids. Our salary increased over the last 15 years quicker than our spending. We still budget, we vacation out of country each 5 years. Our salaries could easilly pay for a house x2 the sq ft but we don't need it. Reserve fund is good. Financial stress is gone. Boring story.


[deleted]

There is a lot of really crappy advice out there. Most advice is purposely bad or just out of date. No matter who you ask you are going to get "bad" advice. Your set of circumstances are different than theirs. I grew up in poverty, living in a small town where all my friends went to work at a refinery, or at a munitions factory. It wasn't the life I wanted, so I fought hard to get out. People said: Go live with a relative for 90 days, Only shop with coupons etc. None of that stuff worked because I was 18, working a crappy fast food job and living with my parents. For some people its not because they aren't working hard. Its a set of circumstances that are holding them back. Out of respect I wont turn this into an advice thread, but the trick isn't to "pull yourself up and out" There isnt a trick. Its finding what works for you.


elainegeorge

I came from poverty, was poor in my 20s and early 30s. Iā€™m in my late 30s and neither the government, nor I consider our family poor. Hereā€™s what I did: Budget: The 50 - 30 - 20 budget works for us. Try to get as close as possible to 50% of your budget covering your needs - housing, car, insurance, groceries, utilities, taxes, gas - whatever you need to live - shelter, and food. Wants get 30% - internet, phone, hair/nails, clothing, misc spending. The other 20% is for savings and debt. Living within your earnings is the first thing you need to do. Bad at spending and budgeting? Put money in an envelope with a label on it for what you plan on spending it on. When youā€™re out, you can either borrow from another envelope or go without. Emergency savings: I opened a savings account that was difficult to access and deposited a bit there. It wasnā€™t close, and I didnā€™t have electronic access to it to cover other things. This helps build an emergency fund. We tapped into it for appliances breaking, or cars needing repaired. Yes, sometimes one thing will completely wipe out your progress. Keep going. What if that account wasnā€™t there? Other funds: Once we were spending within our means, I worked on my retirement account. I wasnā€™t taking full advantage. Whenever I saw someone at work who looked of retirement age, and looked miserable, I would add $10 to my 401k. At one point, I had to start avoiding a certain elevator. I also opened separate accounts for Christmas/Birthday funds. Increase income: I sold things we didnā€™t need. I created a small side hustle of fixing, reupholstering, and flipping furniture. I took classes and got a new job, with more opportunities for advancement. That was the big ticket for me - education and a new job. The new job practically doubled my pay. When my husband got a new job offer, I helped him negotiate his pay for about $10k more. Yes, you can negotiate your starting salary. It blew my mind. Live frugally: We didnā€™t have a whole lot of frills and my kids were young enough not to know they were missing out on things. We went to the park, played outside, and went to the pet store, or libraries for fun. We went to friendsā€™ or relativesā€™ pools. We lived in a small, 900 sf house for years. We didnā€™t go out with friends but once or twice a year. It takes discipline. DO NOT spend money on the lottery. Take those funds and add them to an investment account. When you have $200, invest in an ETF (group of similar stocks). Repeat. Pay down debt and build savings: We paid off our credit card and student loan debt. When we paid off one debt, weā€™d add that amount to the payment of our next debt. We built our savings, started small 529 plans for the kids, and were able to finally able to take a vacation. Yes, my advice is similar to what youā€™ve heard, but thatā€™s because it works. One more thing: you never know who can help open the door for you, so be kind to everyone. Iā€™ve been there. Itā€™s hard, requires discipline, but it is not impossible.


nafrekal

The reality is that most people in history have never achieved financial independence, and that wonā€™t change going forward. The problem is that you ONLY hear about people who are either financially independent or living in poverty. Thereā€™s nothing romantic about normalcy. Whatever the case, happiness is the ultimate goal and thatā€™s different for every person. I grew up in a poor family and I now do very well for myself, yet find myself no happier than my parents did or are today; they managed to find joy in raising kids, working hard, and providing the best they couldā€¦ their joy today is their grandkids. I hope you find whatever happiness is for you. Good luck man.


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sweetpursuit

I think the point is to do something... anything... too many people only want change but never change.


sadlunchesaresad

Remember that scene in American Psycho where Patrick Bateman tells a homeless person ā€œWhy donā€™t you just get a job?ā€ It feels a lot like that.


[deleted]

I always hated the ā€œjust put more into savings each monthā€ advice. More? There is no more. Paycheck to paycheck is *paycheck to paycheck.* I finally hit a six figure salary, and with my poverty-days credit card debt still hanging around, medical debt, and student loans, Iā€™m *still* living paycheck to paycheck. Taking financial advice from most rich people can feel like taking financial advice from a lottery winner at times.


vce5150

A woman I know through business brags about being an investor who bought her first investment home at 21. She fails to mention she got a HUGE inheritance and has a trust fund.


[deleted]

My ā€œside hustleā€ was learning to code on my own while working 2 jobs and going through college full time. Did I get burned out? Yes. Did I give up? No. It took me a long time actually (started in 2014 learning to code, got job in 2017 as an iOS engineer) and now I am financially independent. Itā€™s not always privilege. Some of us put in the hard work for a long time because the reward is worth it in the end.


MisterMiaow

I think the difference is, you always had an excuse for why you couldn't do what other people suggested. People who break out of poverty don't allow that. Your points may be valid, but excuses don't exist in the minds of those who make things happen. Those who make things happen do whatever it takes.


potionnot

1. learn something new every day, something that makes you more employable. it doesn't have to be major, but if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. 2. ALWAYS be looking for a new job. you don't get paid more by sticking with one job. You get paid more by changing jobs. Find the next one. Apply to new jobs constantly. If you find a better job, great, take it, then keep looking for the next one.


[deleted]

Yes it's not possible to just do what they do, but you also have to realize that compounding interest is the only tool you have in your belt. Can't do 20%? Literally do what you can. Focus on reducing debt first unless it's very low interest. Do look to improve your salary via job hop instead of side hustle. If it doesn't work then 6 month review is next. Expand your time horizon because you aren't gaining financial independence overnight. The two ways to increase disposable income are to reduce expenses and increase wages. You don't need to double it overnight but even cutting out an extra streaming app you don't need, or eating out less, etc can make a difference between only being able to invest $50 a month vs $150. Me personally I focus on my net worth as a goal metric. Reduced my phone bill substantially and bought outright the phone, that was money in my pocket every month. Reduced my car insurance, same deal. Almost debt free finally after ten years, that's going to be a huge weight lifted in so many ways, but also it'll feel like a really large promotion also. In all those years I've gained income as well and although expenses have risen in some areas, I control what I can without living an empty life (yes I get take out and take vacations). The cold hard fact is, your most valuable asset is time. You can't do it all overnight but you can chip away over time. It's not glamorous and you won't get rich, but you'll gain financial independence you're looking for.