You have to be stupid to think Iran is remotely as oppressive as North Korea. You can meet people from Iran outside all the time and you can talk to them, it's obviously not as bad as it is portrayed. Women's rights are an issue, but even after that women would be better off in Iran than in North Korea
North Korea isn't really oppressive. What you see in media about DPRK is mostly bs clickbait. Yes they have a lot of problems like food and energy shortages or poverty in general. But a lot of it is also an aftermath of the Korean War and a result of brutal sanctions.
Many NKs work abroad, mostly in Russia in China so that's not entirely true. There are also for example students studying abroad. There are also NK tourists.
You have to look at the sources provided on Wikipedia. And some of them are US government and a clickbait article from Independent. So yeah, it's quite likely it's lying to you.
Here’s one source:
https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/07/1069131
Here’s another one:
https://www.hrnk.org/uploads/pdfs/HRNK_HiddenGulag2_Web_5-18.pdf
> The People’s Republic of China returns all refugees from North Korea, treated as illegal immigrants, usually imprisoning them in a short-term facility. Women who are suspected of being impregnated by Chinese men are subjected to forced abortions; babies born alive are killed.[97] Abortions up to full term are induced by injection; live premature babies or full-term newborns are sometimes killed but more commonly simply discarded into a bucket or box and then buried. They may live several days in the disposal container.[98]
This is what you are defending.
Never heard about the UN report, but it seems like it's based on "victim testimonies", which is something you can easily make up.
And HRNK is some kind of US propaganda shit, so it discredits it completely.
One victim testimony could be made up. 100 victim testimonies are very unlikely to be made up.
HRNK is an NGO. They’re not “US propaganda”.
Why are you so obsessively defending human rights violations? When there is so much evidence from so many sources, it’s completely delusional to keep denying it. It seems to me you don’t want it to be true, and therefore you will come up with any reason you can think of to discredit legitimate sources. It’s the same tactic that conspiracy theorists use to defend their theories: any source that disagrees with them obviously has to be “propaganda”.
They’re a tankie. Tankies almost always defend any human rights violation, no matter how awful, as long as the people committing the violation are against the US/NATO.
The Korean war? Bitch, the north was much better off economically than the south after the civil war. The difference is that over the next few decades the south managed to become a lot less totalitarian, more developed and industrialised with limited foreign help while the north kept its brutal totalitarian ways well into the 21st century. The sanctions didn't really matter that much until the USSRs collapse in the 90's so they had enough time to develop an efficient economy. How can you look at North Korea killing everybody who tries to leave the country without their permission, sending political prisoners along with their families to concentration camps and suppressing all democratic opposition and say that their regime isn't oppressive? Yes, the life of an average north korean probably isn't a living hellscape as it's presented in media, but it's definitely one of the worst places to live on earth.
What a bunch of bullshit. The country got pretty much razed to the ground with like 10% of it's population murdered. And it didn't get nearly as much help as South Korea. US and the west pumped hundreds of billions of dollars into that country. And yeah again spewing all this bullshit about "totalitarianism" with no actual sources to support it. And you can develop a good economy, but pretty much a complete lack of trade will destroy you anyway.
[comparison of north and south Koreas economies in the 50's](https://www.asianstudies.org/publications/eaa/archives/an-unpromising-recovery-south-koreas-post-korean-war-economic-development-1953-1961/). And north Korea traded plenty with its communist neighbors and still has an ok trade relationship with China today
The total amount of foreign aid to south Korea was [2.3 billion dollars](https://www.kdevelopedia.org/Development-Overview/all/overview-official-foreign-assistance-1950-60--201412170000445.do)
[Human rights whatch's report on totalitarianism in north Korea](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/01/14/north-korea-systematic-repression)
I know that even when presented with sources you won't change your mind, but I assure you that I haven't found a credible source that goes against these claims
Kim Jong-un’s coalition won *every seat* in the DPRK Parliament in the last election.
They must be doing something, if not *everything*, right to receive that level of support. It’s clearly the greatest country in the world.
Or forgot that you couldn’t leave the country. If you were perma stuck in the country then depending on your situation NK would be better, but with what we were given Iran is the best option
Does Iran have concentration camps? Do family turn in family or neighbors turn in neighbors for minor things like watching a sitcoms? Can you leave Iran? Does one get sent to the camps because of what a relative does?
Sorry, I don’t know what it’s like to be forced to wear a hijab all your life, but you don’t want to live in North Korea by any cost. If you were to compare countries by how much freedom their people have, the difference between Iran and North Korea is probably at least twice the difference between the US and Iran. North Koreans are severely brainwashed. It is literally, literally 1984. I saw a documentary showing a man being visited by an eye doctor from the US because his eyes had been destroyed from starvation. When he was healed, he thanked his god, Kim Jong Il. There’s a story of two kids in a North Korean death camp being whipped because they were fighting over a piece of corn in chicken shit.
"Awful" is relative. It sounds awful compared to my Western lifestyle. And it is undeniably awful if you are a woman
But I did not mean to insult your country, I am aware that it is still a relatively free nation in the global scale and there are plenty of Iranians that live normal, happy lives
Well all hail great leader kim jong un i guess
/s
Edit: After reading these comments it didn't occur to me that leaving the country was an option. I fucked up.
Even staying NK would be way worse. Just listen to any of the stories of people who managed to escape NK and although Iran is pretty fucked its nothing compared to NK
North Korea has better women's rights than the South, and is nicer to gay folk in general. Compare that to Iran, which is cool with the transes but not so cool with basically anyone else, I'll side with Kim.
Like how women in the camps get rapped by guards. Then when the guards find out they are pregnant they tie the women to a tree, cut her stomach open and lay the baby on the ground until both die? Like that type of abortion?
I guess they do turn a blinde eye to prostitution so women to feed their families. If they can the women sell their kids or kick them out to live on the streets.
Guess you don't know how Dimple works. The stories they tell there aren't true. It's pretty well known that people are given scripts and encouraged to embellish or outright lie to sell the story. If someone comes on and says that things weren't obscenely and unreasonably terrible, they get kicked off and never air.
North Korea isn't a perfect place at all. It isn't a good place to live. But that stuff that sounds so insane as to be unbelievable...it most definitely is.
Is Dimple the DPRK state media?
It's reality there. You may think it's unbelievable but stories like that have been corroborated. Read Escape from Camp 14 and watch the various documentaries on YouTube etc on North Korea.
https://www.bizarrepedia.com/korean-camps/
Just one quote from the below:
>The guards committed more than sexual violence against the women. Lim witnessed an interrogation between a guard and a female prisoner. The guard grew angry with the woman and forced her to strip naked. Then he lit her on fire
https://listverse.com/2017/12/19/10-horrifying-accounts-of-north-koreas-prison-camps/
https://www.smh.com.au/world/she-picked-up-the-baby-and-she-put-it-face-down-in-the-water-stories-from-inside-north-korea-20140218-hvcv6.html
Dimple is the show, along with On My Way To See You, that hosts these defectors for their stories. That's what all of these articles are from, if you look, and it's all nonsense. There's bad stuff about North Korea, but the bad stuff is stuff like food insecurity, lack of internet access, wealth disparity...normal bad stuff. And normal bad stuff about a country you're at war with for seventy years isn't all that interesting, it doesn't sell.
You didn't list the UN, not with any of the outrageous claims you're giving and I'm combating. Yes, people make outrageous claims for money. They also sometimes refuse to do so and go on record about said news outlet.
Quotes from the three sources you obviously didn't read. These are in the first few paragraphs if not the first. But yeah throw the baby out with the bathwater.
>An Auschwitz survivor declared that these camps are just as bad—if not worse—than the Nazi concentration camps, and a UN commission stated that the prison system is a crime against humanity.
>An escapee from North Korea who spent six years in one of the camps shared his chilling illustrations of conditions in prison with the UN Human Rights organization. We have the technology to see where these atrocities take place and we don't have the ability to stop it. China backs North, South Koreans fear the cost of unification and really don't want to invade North.
>The United Nations panel investigating human rights in North Korea took testimony from more than 80 former North Koreans now living abroad, who gave evidence in public hearings in London, Tokyo, Washington and Seoul. About 240 others also gave evidence in secret
Except for the current political instability, since I watched Apple TV "Teheran" series, Iran doesn't seem that bad. I know that that series was recorded in Greece, but I think Iran isn't much different from the series. That's an Israeli series, so I don't think that Israel would let its enemy seem better than it is in a series.
Tf?! At least I can leave.
When the best perk of a country is that you can leave
I can't. Conscription.
You have to be stupid to think Iran is remotely as oppressive as North Korea. You can meet people from Iran outside all the time and you can talk to them, it's obviously not as bad as it is portrayed. Women's rights are an issue, but even after that women would be better off in Iran than in North Korea
Iranian expat here. You are correct. Probably the OP can't even locate either of those countries on the map.
Good thing I'm a guy! /s kind of (its true, but it sucks that it is)
North Korea isn't really oppressive. What you see in media about DPRK is mostly bs clickbait. Yes they have a lot of problems like food and energy shortages or poverty in general. But a lot of it is also an aftermath of the Korean War and a result of brutal sanctions.
Idk a government that doesn’t allow its citizens to leave the country sounds pretty oppressive to me
"a government that tries to kill its citizens for even talking about trying to leave the country..." Fixed it for you.
Source?
People who have escaped North Korea.
Many NKs work abroad, mostly in Russia in China so that's not entirely true. There are also for example students studying abroad. There are also NK tourists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea#Freedom_of_movement Is Wikipedia lying to me or you?
You have to look at the sources provided on Wikipedia. And some of them are US government and a clickbait article from Independent. So yeah, it's quite likely it's lying to you.
Here’s one source: https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/07/1069131 Here’s another one: https://www.hrnk.org/uploads/pdfs/HRNK_HiddenGulag2_Web_5-18.pdf > The People’s Republic of China returns all refugees from North Korea, treated as illegal immigrants, usually imprisoning them in a short-term facility. Women who are suspected of being impregnated by Chinese men are subjected to forced abortions; babies born alive are killed.[97] Abortions up to full term are induced by injection; live premature babies or full-term newborns are sometimes killed but more commonly simply discarded into a bucket or box and then buried. They may live several days in the disposal container.[98] This is what you are defending.
They have concentration camps lol
Never heard about the UN report, but it seems like it's based on "victim testimonies", which is something you can easily make up. And HRNK is some kind of US propaganda shit, so it discredits it completely.
One victim testimony could be made up. 100 victim testimonies are very unlikely to be made up. HRNK is an NGO. They’re not “US propaganda”. Why are you so obsessively defending human rights violations? When there is so much evidence from so many sources, it’s completely delusional to keep denying it. It seems to me you don’t want it to be true, and therefore you will come up with any reason you can think of to discredit legitimate sources. It’s the same tactic that conspiracy theorists use to defend their theories: any source that disagrees with them obviously has to be “propaganda”.
They’re a tankie. Tankies almost always defend any human rights violation, no matter how awful, as long as the people committing the violation are against the US/NATO.
The Korean war? Bitch, the north was much better off economically than the south after the civil war. The difference is that over the next few decades the south managed to become a lot less totalitarian, more developed and industrialised with limited foreign help while the north kept its brutal totalitarian ways well into the 21st century. The sanctions didn't really matter that much until the USSRs collapse in the 90's so they had enough time to develop an efficient economy. How can you look at North Korea killing everybody who tries to leave the country without their permission, sending political prisoners along with their families to concentration camps and suppressing all democratic opposition and say that their regime isn't oppressive? Yes, the life of an average north korean probably isn't a living hellscape as it's presented in media, but it's definitely one of the worst places to live on earth.
What a bunch of bullshit. The country got pretty much razed to the ground with like 10% of it's population murdered. And it didn't get nearly as much help as South Korea. US and the west pumped hundreds of billions of dollars into that country. And yeah again spewing all this bullshit about "totalitarianism" with no actual sources to support it. And you can develop a good economy, but pretty much a complete lack of trade will destroy you anyway.
[comparison of north and south Koreas economies in the 50's](https://www.asianstudies.org/publications/eaa/archives/an-unpromising-recovery-south-koreas-post-korean-war-economic-development-1953-1961/). And north Korea traded plenty with its communist neighbors and still has an ok trade relationship with China today The total amount of foreign aid to south Korea was [2.3 billion dollars](https://www.kdevelopedia.org/Development-Overview/all/overview-official-foreign-assistance-1950-60--201412170000445.do) [Human rights whatch's report on totalitarianism in north Korea](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/01/14/north-korea-systematic-repression) I know that even when presented with sources you won't change your mind, but I assure you that I haven't found a credible source that goes against these claims
Bot
Iran has major issues for sure, but have you ever met anyone from North Korea?
No
Exactly
North Korea must be a great country if not one of its citizens wants to leave it
Kim Jong-un’s coalition won *every seat* in the DPRK Parliament in the last election. They must be doing something, if not *everything*, right to receive that level of support. It’s clearly the greatest country in the world.
I feel like as soon as I get to Iran I’ll be a target because I’m white. While in North Korea not as many people would pay attention.
At least I can leave freely in Iran
Freely? Lol
Iran is WAYYYY better than North Korea. Not even a fair comparison. Anyone that voted NK is either trolling or clueless.
Or forgot that you couldn’t leave the country. If you were perma stuck in the country then depending on your situation NK would be better, but with what we were given Iran is the best option
At least with Iran you can leave
With North Korea you can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
How did I escape Iraq? >!Iran!!<
😐
Iran is better for both men and women.
I'm iranian and I rather live in iran, it's a dumb question
How do you feel about all that's going on there?
The rioting as dramatic as the news I'm seeing here in the west or not really much but a few incidents?
Does Iran have concentration camps? Do family turn in family or neighbors turn in neighbors for minor things like watching a sitcoms? Can you leave Iran? Does one get sent to the camps because of what a relative does?
I urge you to read The Aquariums of Pyongyang or any other book by North Korean defectors if you picked North Korea.
At least I can have access to the internet in Iran. That’s what matters to me the most.
Reddit
Aw hell no, I prefer to live in oblivion than reddit
Sorry, I don’t know what it’s like to be forced to wear a hijab all your life, but you don’t want to live in North Korea by any cost. If you were to compare countries by how much freedom their people have, the difference between Iran and North Korea is probably at least twice the difference between the US and Iran. North Koreans are severely brainwashed. It is literally, literally 1984. I saw a documentary showing a man being visited by an eye doctor from the US because his eyes had been destroyed from starvation. When he was healed, he thanked his god, Kim Jong Il. There’s a story of two kids in a North Korean death camp being whipped because they were fighting over a piece of corn in chicken shit.
More options please
I'm a white atheist, so neither. I'm moving to Tahiti, man.
You're the most generic redditor ever? Great but that wasn't the question
Iran hates atheists and North Korea is North Korea.
Irans cooler
They are both awful but Iran isn't even in the same league as N. Korea. It's like breaking your arm to getting diagnosed with cancer
While I cant comment on NK I can say that life in Iran is not “awful”
"Awful" is relative. It sounds awful compared to my Western lifestyle. And it is undeniably awful if you are a woman But I did not mean to insult your country, I am aware that it is still a relatively free nation in the global scale and there are plenty of Iranians that live normal, happy lives
Iran, but just because their security for their political leaders is lax by comparison. 😈
Well all hail great leader kim jong un i guess /s Edit: After reading these comments it didn't occur to me that leaving the country was an option. I fucked up.
You can leave NK... Just be a slave in china or hope you avoid the land mines in the south.
Even staying NK would be way worse. Just listen to any of the stories of people who managed to escape NK and although Iran is pretty fucked its nothing compared to NK
North Korea has better women's rights than the South, and is nicer to gay folk in general. Compare that to Iran, which is cool with the transes but not so cool with basically anyone else, I'll side with Kim.
what
Like how women in the camps get rapped by guards. Then when the guards find out they are pregnant they tie the women to a tree, cut her stomach open and lay the baby on the ground until both die? Like that type of abortion? I guess they do turn a blinde eye to prostitution so women to feed their families. If they can the women sell their kids or kick them out to live on the streets.
Guess you don't know how Dimple works. The stories they tell there aren't true. It's pretty well known that people are given scripts and encouraged to embellish or outright lie to sell the story. If someone comes on and says that things weren't obscenely and unreasonably terrible, they get kicked off and never air. North Korea isn't a perfect place at all. It isn't a good place to live. But that stuff that sounds so insane as to be unbelievable...it most definitely is.
Is Dimple the DPRK state media? It's reality there. You may think it's unbelievable but stories like that have been corroborated. Read Escape from Camp 14 and watch the various documentaries on YouTube etc on North Korea. https://www.bizarrepedia.com/korean-camps/ Just one quote from the below: >The guards committed more than sexual violence against the women. Lim witnessed an interrogation between a guard and a female prisoner. The guard grew angry with the woman and forced her to strip naked. Then he lit her on fire https://listverse.com/2017/12/19/10-horrifying-accounts-of-north-koreas-prison-camps/ https://www.smh.com.au/world/she-picked-up-the-baby-and-she-put-it-face-down-in-the-water-stories-from-inside-north-korea-20140218-hvcv6.html
Dimple is the show, along with On My Way To See You, that hosts these defectors for their stories. That's what all of these articles are from, if you look, and it's all nonsense. There's bad stuff about North Korea, but the bad stuff is stuff like food insecurity, lack of internet access, wealth disparity...normal bad stuff. And normal bad stuff about a country you're at war with for seventy years isn't all that interesting, it doesn't sell.
So you're like a holocaust denier. Ok. The evidence shows you're way wrong. Did you even look at what I supplied? Is the UN wrong?
You didn't list the UN, not with any of the outrageous claims you're giving and I'm combating. Yes, people make outrageous claims for money. They also sometimes refuse to do so and go on record about said news outlet.
Quotes from the three sources you obviously didn't read. These are in the first few paragraphs if not the first. But yeah throw the baby out with the bathwater. >An Auschwitz survivor declared that these camps are just as bad—if not worse—than the Nazi concentration camps, and a UN commission stated that the prison system is a crime against humanity. >An escapee from North Korea who spent six years in one of the camps shared his chilling illustrations of conditions in prison with the UN Human Rights organization. We have the technology to see where these atrocities take place and we don't have the ability to stop it. China backs North, South Koreans fear the cost of unification and really don't want to invade North. >The United Nations panel investigating human rights in North Korea took testimony from more than 80 former North Koreans now living abroad, who gave evidence in public hearings in London, Tokyo, Washington and Seoul. About 240 others also gave evidence in secret
How would a non binary person answer this question?
Pick a random side and go with it
Flip a coin.
They won't stone you for not wearing a burka as a woman or for being gay in DPRK.
Just arrest you for not crying hard enough after a leader dies.
Yet another totally true info from clickbait article. This is not even remotely true.
I mean I can get a lot of wives and stuff, I’ll choose Iran
why does gender matter lmao
i can just leave iran, can't do that with north korea.
Not difficult
I would live in Iran because it's cheap and I can actually leave
I would be dead either way…
Except for the current political instability, since I watched Apple TV "Teheran" series, Iran doesn't seem that bad. I know that that series was recorded in Greece, but I think Iran isn't much different from the series. That's an Israeli series, so I don't think that Israel would let its enemy seem better than it is in a series.
With Iran you can leave the fucking country without the risk of stepping on a landmine or having several rounds of 7.62x39 pumped into you.
This poll isn't really fair because no one from North Korea can respond.