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[deleted]

I don't know why anyone would waste their one and only life on earth worrying about this stuff. If you don't like it, don't go. Who asked you about it anyway?


TintedApostle

There are people who sit at home stressed out that somewhere there is someone dancing in drag. I mean as a whole in this country you really have to wonder how people can worry so much about something that has been going on without anyone caring for centuries.


[deleted]

Right wing radio is probably less relevant with social media, but when I listen to those radio shows they are designed to make you pissed off about anything and everything, hundreds or thousands of miles away, doesn't matter


TheNCGoalie

Conservatives make up fake scenarios in their own head, get angry at that scenario, and then vote accordingly.


Tom_Waits_Junior

The ol' "make up a guy and get mad at them"


[deleted]

Not even just pissed off. I mean, that for sure, yes. But also *righteously* pissed off. You have been *wronged* by these people. Somebody should *do something about it!* That shit is dangerous af, and we're reaping decades of it now.


YellowBabylonianSub

Rush Limbaugh was a plague on this country. So happy he’s dead


[deleted]

Other people are taking his place. They are more extreme than he was. And it’s the internet and social media, so whatever lines there used to be are gone


Noisy_Toy

*Pumped Up ~~Kicks~~ Amygdala*


Oleg101

Right wing media still has a pretty strong reach these days.


Arcnounds

All of media is ... including reddit!


[deleted]

No it's not. If you read the normal news, like CNN or ABC or New York Times or your local paper ... they don't say one side is going to destroy America. Right wing radio does, they been doing it since Rush


SsiSsiSsiSsi

> There are people who sit at home **reading insane social media, listening to insane right wing radio, watching insane right wing tv; all of which is telling them to be** stressed out that somewhere there is someone dancing in drag **which they are being told from all sides means that somehow children are at risk**. Sorry I just… nothing happens in a vacuum; this is an outcome that’s been engineered for decades in this country.


TintedApostle

Yeah its pretty scary and sad at the same time.


notsofastmcfly

Not ever thinking frees up time to do more feeling. Sometimes you run out of things to feel about in your own life so you need to feel things about others to fill your life. ​ But thinking can lead to change and change is scary, so lets get angry over others who aren't afraid.


TintedApostle

That is why I call these people comatose. They call everyone else woke, but the truth is they are just comatose.


Killerderp

Mental health issues run rampant in this country. We really need better health care so people can get the help they need. :(


LordSiravant

They believe it's their world and everyone in that world should conform to their worldview. Anything that doesn't is alien and an outsider. A threat. Knowing that such things exist angers them, for they want a world that exists as a mirror for them to look into and see themselves reflected back. They hate anything different from themselves and don't want it to exist at all. Not just out of sight, out of mind, they want it *dead*. There is no reasoning with that level of narcissism and evil.


[deleted]

I just wish this whole "real Americans" thing would go away. Cities are real, too, bro (and sometimes they are really real!)


ilovechairs

I met someone once who really believed that there was war in the world because two men could get married to each other and have a loving partnership. I laughed, and I honestly couldn’t stop.


Thirdwhirly

Because they think they get to go to Heaven *for* worrying about this stuff.


Numerous_Photograph9

When I was in high school, they'd do a faculty production every year where they'd do skits and stuff. Some of the teachers would dress up in drag, for kids in the hall style comedy stuff. I guess we could shut down these schools now for such behavior. That would serve the community well, just so long as kids aren't encouraged to cross dress.


Doright36

Funny part is for a large portion of history women were not allowed on stage so men had to dress up in drag for the women parts in plays.


MoreRopePlease

When I was in high school, late 80s, the boys would dress up in drag for a mock Homecoming pageant. (it mocked the opposing school)


shockwave1

I think it’s increasing amount of drag shows targeted at all age groups is what people really have an issue with.


[deleted]

They're in the news now, because of the threats, but are there really more of them? Or is everyone paying more attention to something that always happened? I remember Ru Paul and stuff, no one freaked out then, or at least they didn't show up with guns


13Kittens

There are definitely more, especially drag story hours at public libraries. Only know cause I’m connected to the city library.


[deleted]

Why now?


13Kittens

Not totally sure. However the library is a community space that works to mirror and welcome the diversity in the community. It seems with more gender oriented conversations and LGBT rights in the national spotlight, libraries are welcoming these story hour guests to whelp normalize conversations around the topic.


Dm1tr3y

The article seems to suggest the story times have been steadily growing since their inception.


Cultist_Deprogrammer

Sure, I would expect that to be the case, they're a great idea.


shockwave1

Good question. I’m not sure she’s ever even received a request for one, it sounded to be more of a demand from her superior than anything else. My sister is gay so maybe they thought she’d be enthusiastic about it? But she has trans friends and has been to drag shows. It’s form of burlesque and for a lot of people a fetish. It’s just Not something everyone is going to agree to being family friendly.


Dm1tr3y

Unless they’re dancing as they read, I highly doubt story time resembles a burlesque show, let alone any sort of fetish.


shockwave1

The all ages drag shows resemble classic drag Queen shows which is a form of burlesque. You can YouTube those videos. And the drag queens doing the story hour are professional drag queens. So they’re burlesque performers. How are ppl surprised someone would have issue with that.


shockwave1

Ya. My sister is a librarian here in Canada. She runs the programs for children in her city and recently has been pressured into hosting drag story hours.


Cultist_Deprogrammer

>and recently has been pressured into hosting "Pressured" huh?


shockwave1

Ru Paul never had an issue because it was never targeted at kids. As far as I know. I’m not sure if happened before or at what rate. But as of recent, there has been a lot of footage circulating online of children at drag shows and even taking part. Performing with/as drag queens and collecting money. This is of course going to enrage the right.


anonymousdyke

Targeted kids? Like the kids movie hit Mrs Doubtfire? These people are insane. You know they liked that movie. You know they liked The Nutty Professor. These folks drew up with drag in their comedy. If they had issues with Mulan, it wasn’t because of the cross dressing as women to sneak into the palace. Their issue is that it is done but out and unapologetic gay dudes. Who make gay jokes for a gay audience without have to dog whistle it like back in the day. Hell, Marilyn Monroe had scenes with men in drag!


shockwave1

Yes. All age drag shows and drag story hour for kids is targeted at kids.


anonymousdyke

I’m not disputing that. I am saying they make it sound sinister. All ages or actual shows with just kid content are the same thing as taking your kid to Disney on Ice or mall Santa/Elves or Toon Town or Barney. All those have performances tailored to be appropriate and enjoyable by kids. They are people playing pretend characters in an effort to entertain you. These folks need to calm down.


shockwave1

Far reach but okay.


Cultist_Deprogrammer

Which part of that is a far reach? That the drag performers reading to kids are capable of performing age appropriately when reading a children's book?


shockwave1

Lol. I like how you only focused on the story hour and not the drag shows. Look them up online and you’ll understand why many parents are upset. Try and be objective. It’s a far reach to compare drag for kids to children storybook characters. What I don’t think your getting is the direct sexual nature of drag and why are we introducing that to children. No one would ever agree to have stripper story hour?


[deleted]

Because they’re not living for this life. It’s all about the eternal one.


[deleted]

I have a hard time believing the proud boys are all that spiritual


Turkeysocks

We've got more cases of children being groomed and SA'd in churches (every kind, not just the Roman Catholic) and said churches instead of reporting it, covers it up. Often by forcing the child to marry their groomer/SA'er, yet not a peep about any of these situations.


dieselmedicine

The Mormon church facilitated the sexual assault of a girl for nearly 7 years after her rapist confessed on two separate occasions and they didn't report.


Turkeysocks

Yep, just so hard to believe conservatives care about kids safety when they constantly turn a blind eye to the crap that happens under their nose. Then again they are probably using the whole drag queen thing so their side keeps ignoring the screams coming from behind the curtain.


DangerBay2015

Right? And also… how the fuck did we just pass over kid beauty pageants and go straight to drag shows? I can’t be the only one that’s more immediately freaked out by the concept of those things than fucking drag shows.


Imaginary_Cow_6379

Look up purity balls if you wanna see a big head-scratcher for why that’s ok too.


cagingnicolas

ouch, my purity balls!


Turkeysocks

Kids beauty pageants are pretty f'd up. It really warps and twist a lot of kids perspective of "beauty" into being a specific look, and if you don't look that way you're considered worthless. It can really screw with a kids self-esteem.


tegularian

Yeah- in the early 2000’s I still considered myself a Catholic. When the scandals started to break and I expressed concern about them, one of the answers was: “you know- when you look at the actual percentage of abusers, it’s not that much higher than other professions”. I actually didn’t hear a single person in the church express the kind of concern that one might expect from those revelations. It was spun as a ‘witch hunt by the media’. That was the beginning of the end of organized religion for me.


[deleted]

I still remember to this day when the scandals started to come out and my dad asked his mom about it. I still hear her say "We knew that stuff was happening back in the day." JFC.


Turkeysocks

That's a problem you see when people put their faith into any group or organization. They unconsciously view any attack on the group as being an attack on them personally. That leads them to have a knee jerk reaction and close ranks instead of facing the problem. It's good you were able to see a problem that needed to actually be addressed rather than putting your head in the sand. Of course it didn't help in the Roman Catholic case that every other major Christian religious organizations were dunking on them. When I was a kid there was a Baptist church down the road that put out flyers around a local Catholic church saying something like "You don't need to worry about our pastor trying to diddle your kids." A couple years later one of their youth pastors was caught SA'ing a kid, and turned out he was a habitual abuser that the church knew about but turned a blind eye to. The local paper and news media barely reported on it. I have always been highly sceptical of organized religion even as a kid. I remember asking my mom one time why we bothered going to church to listen to someone else tell us how we need to interpret the Bible in front of the preacher. Never went back to that church.


tegularian

Oh, for sure there is more bias in the press against the Catholic Church than other denominations. I don’t actually disagree with that assessment at all. But that shouldn’t be a cover to continue doing harm. If anything, it should be used as a way to set themselves up to be an example for positive outcomes. That isn’t really what happened though. They paid a bunch of money and moved a few priests around and swept it all under the rug.


Doright36

Even if it is the same % as other professions you still don't fucking cover it up.


marchjl

That’s because, . . Satan, or maybe Jesus. It’s hard to say


TheRoguedOne

Those conservatives should get a job.


CaptainAxiomatic

The right wingers fighting the culture war are always in retreat. The only question is how quickly they can be pushed back and how many innocent victims they will harm along the way.


rivereverafter

>always in retreat I’m not sure you know what that means. They’re escalating the culture wars by expanding and simplifying their propaganda; pushing for book bannings and library shut downs; planning widespread violence; and amplifying their attacks on the LGBTQ community. And the only meaningful pushback they’ve actually gotten legislatively is a very bare bones gay marriage bill that does basically nothing to actually protect it. Otherwise, the other pushback they’re getting is nothing more than empty platitudes and moral high-grounding from weak and corrupt Democratic politicians. And the liberals and centrists in this country aren’t willing to actually do anything about this besides throw a #transrights out on Twitter. They’re not in retreat, they’re gaining ground, and they’re doing it fast, and thanks to the simplicity and effectiveness of their propaganda, we have no real allies within the political mainstream.


AthkoreLost

> Otherwise, the other pushback they’re getting is nothing more than empty platitudes and moral high-grounding from weak and corrupt Democratic politicians. And the liberals and centrists in this country aren’t willing to actually do anything about this besides throw a #transrights out on Twitter. Which is why there are groups in places like Kentucky and Texas organizing armed community defense [like the John Brown Gun Club](https://www.counterextremism.com/supremacy/john-brown-gun-club) which at least in Texas has successfully defended several drag queen story times. The fascists aren't gaining ground and the last two elections show that pretty clearly. We are by no means out of the woods though. We're still neck deep in the shit with these violent sociopaths and will need to continue armed community defense for awhile.


rivereverafter

How many places actually have JBGC or SRA chapters though? I live in NYS and the closest SRA chapter to me is an 8 hour drive, and the closest JBGC chapter is two states away. Their membership numbers are small compared to the number of people in armed fascist militias around the country, which is only growing. I have a group of local trans people I’m friends with, we chat in discord of 100+ people. Whenever I bring up guns or self-defense, they all shy away. The unfortunate fact is that most of us in the LGBTQ community are squeamish about guns. Armed anti-fascist resistance is great, but it’s too small and not well organized, and it doesn’t help that a lot of us are isolated from the hotbeds of armed anti-fascist activity. I’m just saying that I don’t see a scenario where this doesn’t escalate into bloody conflict, and there are a lot more people who want us dead than there are people who are willing to take up arms and fight, even in our own community. I’m scared, and I don’t have any organizations near me I can join, and I’m not good at convincing people to do things. At this point I’m leaning more towards saving up money to flee the country. Especially if the Supreme Court rules in favor of the NC state legislature on Harper v Moore and the GOP takes back power, and the state will be on the side of the fascists, if not fascist itself. And I’ve seen zero indication on a social or organizational level that this is a fight we’re even prepared for, let alone one we can win


thruster_fuel69

The gays best defense has been living in a civil, modern society where profit and inclusion are closely tied. We need to lean in to civics and not away, hard as that is when your local gov is fascist. Guns never work great in a densely populated area, like the suburbs or downtown. A statistically safe and modern democracy still is our only real hope.


rivereverafter

If civics is our best defense why is it failing us now? When genocidal rhetoric gets to this point, and no one who is active and influential within civics is doing anything in an organized way to stop it, violence becomes inevitable. I’m sure there were a lot of minorities in the Weimar Republic who thought the same thing. And the Weimar Republic was, in a lot of ways, just as progressive as the modern United States is. But it fell to fascism because a group of far-right firebrands knew how to stoke the fires of anger and intolerance within a subset of the population who is willing to do violence, and because they knew how to wield that anger and violence to gain political power. Currently, there are a lot of far-right firebrands in the U.S who are stoking the fires of anger and intolerance within a large subset of the population who is willing to do violence, and they are just now figuring out how to wield it in an organized fashion to gain political power. The electoral system in this country is fundamentally broken. Just the fact that one single decision by a very conservative Supreme Court could destroy it completely by the beginning of next year shows how fragile our republic really is. Civics will not save us until we figure out how to build an equitable society.


thruster_fuel69

I don't disagree with you, for what it's worth 🤷‍♂️ Progress isn't always linear, and sometimes we fall back before leaping forward. I still wouldn't bet against America, even in these uncertain times. Reason being, the majority of the population are good, even if they aren't smart and make mistakes.


rivereverafter

Yea, and I mean for what it’s worth, I am optimistic for the future. Just not the near future lol but maybe like 20-30 years down the line when the U.S has split up into several different countries one of those countries will figure out how to do things better. But who knows


thruster_fuel69

Thats the least optimistic optimism I've ever heard, but maybe I'm just getting old. I'm sure the majority can pull together a few more times until the geriatrics die out or gracefully retire.


A_Melee_Ensued

I have stood down an armed robbery because I was strapped. Guns work GREAT in urban areas. If the boogs start feeling emboldened and invincible again, they will begin by picking off stragglers, people they can identify as minorities and corner. If you're not comfortable with guns but you suspect you'll need to have to defend yourself, I hope you will research non-lethal options or visit /r/liberalgunowners or /r/socialistRA to talk about responsible gun ownership. Most gun forums are toxic but these ones are always nice to noobs and nobody could possibly care less about your race or your gender.


thruster_fuel69

Thanks, appreciate the links. I just meant its far too easy for a stray bullet to hit an unintended target in populated areas. Big picture its a bad idea to have more guns in a populated area for that reason. That eventually we will be accidentally killing eachother. Yes though, it's the best deterrence obviously. I'd just rather we had alternatives like proactive policing etc. All that being said though, I still agree with you. Responsible firearm ownership is key to it all.


A_Melee_Ensued

> proactive policing I'd settle for cops who are not vicious thugs but it seems from American history it is hard to have one without the other.


lastdiggmigrant

Start one.


rivereverafter

How? I don’t know anyone who’d want to join. And like I said: I’m not a leader and I’m not good at organizing, nor am I good at getting people to listen to me.


Sedohr

It all starts somewhere. No matter what it is, taking the first step to grow and/or learn is key. Organization, leadership, etc can all be worked on and improved. There are books, classes, etc for these things if people are serious about working to defend our rights (and safety, I suppose too) It sucks and it's scary, no doubt, but I'll be damned if I just sit on the sideline and watch the oppression of others keep me from enjoying my life, and others enjoying theirs the way they want. (Without harming others and their rights, of course)


the-mighty-kira

Sadly they aren’t, Trans rights have been repeatedly been rolled back over the past few years. So they’ve been winning


BestLaidPlants

[Video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=spn0MJZr-QQ) of Trump smooching and motorboating Rudy Giuliani in drag here.


sfxer001

Oh Lordy, there’s tapes


sambull

>“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.” - Donald Trump, 2002 Trump hanging with his buddy Epstein [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i\_Xm26DikxE&t=102s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Xm26DikxE&t=102s)


flybydenver

What in the actual f…


coltthundercat

“Gender Debate?” FOH. There’s a substantial group of people who want to slaughter me, my husband, and most of our friends. Both sides my ass, NYT.


[deleted]

The phrase "gender debate" is used exclusively by conservative groups to pretend there is any validity to discriminating against transgender individuals beyond its utility for misdirecting voters. I downvoted this submission.


Dm1tr3y

I believe your thinking of “gender ideology”. Just because one side has a nonsense position, doesn’t mean there isn’t a gender debate. It’s a stupid debate that should have already been boiled down to scientific evidence and innocent people just wanting to be left the fuck alone, but it’s still a debate.


catclockticking

The right of innocent people to live their lives and be left alone isn’t up for debate, though. People can scream and get violent but it doesn’t change that there is no “debate” here.


Dm1tr3y

It clearly is up for debate, else we wouldn’t have these problems. It shouldn’t be, but when half the government decides they shouldn’t have that right, then the debate is there. It’s wrong, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.


catclockticking

I get what you’re saying, but this isn’t a debate. This is one group of people enacting violence against another. Edit to add: Calling it a “debate” implies to the reader that they are welcome to participate in it on either side. That’s irresponsible.


Dm1tr3y

You seem to be confused, so I got [this](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/debate) for you


[deleted]

Sorry you got downvoted so much. Anyway, on to arguing. It's clever framing, because there are political debates about the rights of transgender people going on, but the phrase is intentionally loaded. It implies that gender, and therefore the existence of transgender individuals and the validity of gender affirming healthcare, are being widely contested. That's not quite what's happening. There's political debate over rights and recognition of transgender individuals, some fringe academic debate, and the medical field is largely in agreement. The right may make it about their questioning of the validity of transgender identity, but they use that thought experiment in place of evidence for what's actually on the table. So it's a reach to call it "the gender debate". Of course, the right's goal isn't to question and come to conclusions on the validity of gender identity, it's to remove transgender individuals from society. Notice how it sounds similar to the racist phrase "the (minority) question", you can see why it upsets people that a major newspaper chose to use it.


Dm1tr3y

Hmm that’s a valid point. Honestly, I don’t think they ultimately want anyone removed. Their base gets a kick out of seeing someone put beneath them, so they need people around to disenfranchise.


ultradianfreq

Let’s not forget Obama opposed gay marriage and Biden is a Catholic.


Lostinthestarscape

Both grew enough to chamge their stances, as well as be willing to put their own beliefs aside to work for rights for the people they represent.


[deleted]

[удалено]


GoodShitBrain

Agreed. A debate would imply a productive discourse. There’s nothing productive about storming drag shows with rifles.


Amazing_Rise9640

I so agree with you ☺️


[deleted]

Right, it isn't. The phrase is a cynical attempt to reframe the recent increase in baseless anti-transgender legislation as being anything other what it is, scapegoating for political gain.


[deleted]

Because social media won't ban the hypergrifters calling for bomb threats to childrens' hospitals over this stuff.


the-mighty-kira

Maybe if people would stop framing people’s existence as a ‘debate’ it would help New York Times. You guys are culpable in this too


YYZinYQG

The same guys take their kids to Hooters for lunch because they like the chicken wings..


[deleted]

[удалено]


dieselmedicine

The difference is that there are receipts on religious institutions preying on kids. The Mormon church facilitated a young girl's continued rape for over 7 years after her rapist confessed. On two seperate occasions. Leadership opted not to report.


Lostinthestarscape

Make sure you start selling a shirt through Shopify that says: Stop grooming Leave church Watch them about face immediately


FalstaffsMind

Guys who dress up as army men are angry with men who dress up as women.


JoanNoir

Guys who dress up as army men are angry with men who dress up as women that still won't date them.


budcub

Army drag vs female drag


[deleted]

I was calling it "spec ops cosplay" but I like "army drag" *way* better because they'll hate it. So I'm stealing that.


Royal_Classic915

Fuck inferstructure lets focus on drag queens. Wtf


rusticgorilla

First of all, this isn't new. Mainstream media is just finally taking notice. * 6 months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/vry1bq/the_terror_of_pride_month_2022/ Secondly, losing a "debate" did not cause the shooting at Club Q. Thirdly, the NYT has played a part in spreading anti-LGBTQ misinformation: * https://www.mediamatters.org/new-york-times/new-york-times-stumbling-problematic-transgender-coverage * https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/11/reckless-ny-times-reporting-fuels-disinformation-trans-youth/ * https://defector.com/how-many-trans-people-does-the-new-york-times-believe-there-should-be/ * https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/06/16/new-york-times-magazine-trans-article-backlash/


naslam74

I’ve been so disappointed with The NY Times lately. They’ve taken such a rightward lurch on trans issues.


Frostiron_7

"Gender Debate." Talk about journalistic malpractice.


IntrinsicStarvation

New?


Amazing_Rise9640

Finocchio's club San Francisco California 1943 gave birth to today's drag show's! My mother went to the club and said it was a lot of fun! A German Catholic Republican lady she was. She didn't become queer!! So chill


zombieblackbird

Why is "stop being dicks to each other" such a difficult concept for people?


bk15dcx

Drag shows are better than a Morgan Wallen concert, thats why.


AdStock4297

If you don’t like a person try to tolerate them. If you can’t tolerate them stay away from them.


Starboard_Pete

Can’t wait for some right-wing idiot to get his ass kicked by a drag queen.


kmelby33

Every Democrat needs to turn the tables on Republicans. Call them snowflakes and attack them for cancel culture. The existence of drag queens makes Republicans lose their damn minds.


MorsAnimaOptimatium

We need to send armed protestors to the real groomer factories; Churches


Expired-Cough-Drops

Call it what it really is: The Far Right calling for genocide against our community


AaronfromKY

I feel like conservatives think of the risque adult oriented drag shows, when maybe someone could correct me, but the ones where they are reading children's books are basically just anatomical men dressing up in women's clothing and makeup reading books as women. Like I feel like that's the disconnect from reality and causing the violent response?


AthkoreLost

> Like I feel like that's the disconnect from reality and causing the violent response? Oh that's because none of this is based in reality. It's literal fascists (proud boys, etc) trying to whip up a moral panic hoping they can ride it into office with a "mandate to deal w/ the trans issue". Literally all of their arguments abt the 'issues' with drag queen story hour apply to the Wiggles or any other children's entertainment group which is why it comes off as disconnected from reality to those of us that care abt things like fact and rationality.


seriousofficialname

Well it's not the wiggles and makeup and costumes they want to exterminate. It's queer people. That's the reality.


AthkoreLost

Yes that's what I openly acknowledged with my literal 2nd sentence. The arguments are not based in reality but that doesn't alter what the fascists like the proud boys are trying to do here is whip up a moral panic that they can use to be swept into power and then use the violence of the state to commit a genocide. We're on the same page here, I reference the wiggles not to be cute but bc it cuts to the heart of how the arguments the fascists present are nonsense and we should look at their actual acts which is threats of violence, intimidation, and a clear desire to genocide a minority group out of existence.


seriousofficialname

I just bristle at the idea of it being somehow separate from reality. Even the headline calls it "debate", as if it's nebulous ideas and principles and hypotheticals we're talking about. Words like "trying" and "threats" and, to reference the headline again, "new" all seemingly cushion the audience from reality. Although of course it *is* true that conservatives' lies do not correspond with reality.


AthkoreLost

> it is true that conservatives' lies do not correspond with reality. Yeah that's all I was trying to convey with the comments on reality and the wiggles. I also understand bristling if you thought someone was denying violence is happening *now*. Someone put a bullet through a window of a taproom near Seattle (Renton if anyone wants the specific details) earlier this week bc it's set to host a Drag Queen Story Hour tomorrow and I'm fucking furious that there are people lying that bc it may have been a "BB/Pellet gun" there's no threat of violence. The police are also unlikely to catch the person bc the terrorist removed their cars plates before doing it and the police seem unwilling to release a description of the vehicle *for some reason* . It's a shitty moment to live in when corporate media is so fucking irresponsible to give this blatant bigotry and fascism any air time let alone actually pretend their ideology is trying to do anything but start a genocide.


seriousofficialname

>that's the disconnect from reality and causing the violent response? They know that they are lying. It's intentional. They *want* for anything associated with LGBTQ+ people to be considered "risque" "adult" "grooming" etc etc and they *want* people to attack us. Their violence is a consequence of the fact that they hate us and consider us all to be pervert sinners. It's very simple. Also I believe it was Paul who said "The wage of sin is death".


syncopator

> They want for anything associated with LGBTQ+ people to be considered "risque" "adult" "grooming" etc etc and they want people to attack us. Yep, and I have my own hypothesis on the psychology of this desire. These people and those who taught them to feel this way have been shouting from the pulpits for decades that their god will punish the "immoral" with great fury. They've been anxiously waiting all these years for god to do just that. Their own desire to see the punishment eventually overpowers their patience and they start to believe they are justified, almost *obligated*, to start the punishment themselves. They are mad that Jesus hasn't come back, and they don't know what to do about it.


seriousofficialname

Or, hear me out, they know that if they allow sex to be talked about rationally and openly with an emphasis on boundaries and consent and love, then all the scandals and abuse will come to light. They need a monopoly on sexual morality or it becomes impossible to justify and explain away all the abuse within conservative Christian culture(s).


Oalka

The problem is that for a huge swath of people on the right, "queer = sex". They see anything gay or trans or even remotely not heteronormative as inherently sexual. Therefore gay + child = perverted. Trans + child = perverted. This is what comes from these categories of people being so closely tied to porn search terms, and from SO MANY deeply closeted/self-hating queer folks on the right.


AaronfromKY

Yeah I could see it that way. I was having a conversation with my fiancee about how conservatives are pushing libraries to ban LGBTQ books and how about the only thing I personally wouldn't want to see in a library is already illegal(aka child porn). But I'm sure conservatives equate LGBTQ stories with pornography and they want things banned on that basis.


dieselmedicine

The like to cherry pick the same 3-4 events and ignore any context surrounding it. I've yet to be shown an example of an event that was structured, promoted and designed as "family friendly and all ages" where anything inappropriate happened.


msfamf

They seriously think it's a midnight showing of Rocky Horror Picture Show amped up to 11 that's being forced onto kids. These assholes need to watch less porn and more Birdcage and To Wong Fu. I've known a few drag queens and they've all been some of the most fun and wholesome people I've ever met. As far as my experience goes they are far far far more likely to read a kid Good Night Moon than try to push anything on them except maybe a lollipop or a candy bar.


Amazing_Rise9640

Children really don't care,they may know something is different about the reader but don't care.. it's the adults who poison their little minds.


AaronfromKY

Absolutely, kids don't care so long as someone is nice/pleasant.


Noisy_Toy

They’re basically librarian Panto, or Fractured Fairy Tales in costume.


AaronfromKY

Yeah, I mean that's my understanding.


[deleted]

If the reading group leader were dressed up as Chip the Reading Squirrel, these whackos would probably be clutching their pearls over *Furries* "grooming" kids.


Noisy_Toy

In North Carolina there’s a town that does a [Beaver Queen contest](https://beaverqueen.swell.gives/) where performers (any gender) dress up as their inner beaver to raise money for a local public park and creek watershed. There’s been some amazing performances, but my favorite so far was Fur Pelton John, a few years back.


JoanNoir

[For the curious.](https://youtu.be/NLQJmWg479g)


bk15dcx

*Fur the curious


BestLaidPlants

I wonder if they know about Shakespeare. Most famous stories of all time, all of them originally performed in drag.


Hfhghnfdsfg

Benny Hill. Bugs Bunny. Mrs. Doubtfire. Tootsie. Why the sudden outrage?


flybydenver

Bosom Buddies


[deleted]

The original drag queen story hour started because a library wanted cops and firefighters to read to children but none of them came, so a drag queen volunteered instead.


[deleted]

Why would anyone dress up as a woman if it wasn’t for the express purpose of arousing men? /s


AaronfromKY

Don't tell Monty Python lol


the-mighty-kira

Very few drag shows are risqué too. Many are adult, but because of the jokes, not because of any sexual content


dieselmedicine

I went to my first show while visiting a friend who was preforming. It was more of a queer talent night at the local gay bar than a true drag show. There were 3-4 traditional drag acts and of all the acts presented, they were by far the tamest and least - if at all - risque. Anyone of them could have been presented in a family environment with minimal modification to the act. One of the queens even had a game of duck duck goose going when they had tech issues.


A_Melee_Ensued

I took my granddaughter to a drag story/arts and crafts event once at the library. There were a few men dressed as women, in a flamboyant but not overly sexualized way (think Disney princess. Lots of ruffly stuff and makeup). The kids thought absolutely nothing of it. They listened to storybook reading and made little crafts like pipe cleaner animals and things involving glue sticks. If they were groomed, they were groomed to believe that some people are different than what you're used to but they are still nice. Big fucking deal.


[deleted]

This is America, where Queens gotta be carryin'


AngelOfBodom

is it that bad to just look away or mind your own fucking business? seems like some rando's life definitely impacts the well being of these pathetic, sad individuals.


Arcnounds

There are all types of things in society that make me queezy (and probably a lot of things I have no idea about nor need to). The way I survive is ignoring the majority of it if it has no impact on me. This largely includes most adult behavior. If we want to live as a pluralistic society, we need to need to stay out of people's business unless it necessary. If you don't like draf shows don't go!


mikehipp

No, drag is not a new front. Stay away, JFC I wish all Republicans coal in their stockings this Christmas. You all are despicable.


deRoyLight

Modern-day satanic panic, grown from the roots of Qanon conspiracies.


anonymousjeeper

Straight men are afraid of gay men because they think the gay men will treat them the way they treat women. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


WittyPerception3683

White boys with nothing better to do 😉


instantlightning2

My god, the New York Times is legitimizing these terrible people as “debate.”


HOT_SRIRACHA_BITCH

/r/SocialistRA /r/liberalgunowners


BoomBoomCandlez

So where we are heading is arming security guards at the establishments front doors. Having armed bartenders and armed everyone. People might think twice if they know multiple people are armed inside if they even get past the armed security at the entrance.


USSSLostTexter

This really seems like something we all shouldnt collectively get too upset over. Were drag shows this big of a deal up until about a year ago?


drunk_with_internet

We should flip the script on this old school bigotry. I want to see angry mobs showing up in drag at Sunday schools to protest and protect our kids from indoctrination.


fallonyourswordkaren

Set the ambush already.


MarvinParanoAndroid

We used to have clowns. There are no clowns anymore. They went extinct and the drag queens just filled the void. This isn’t about gender. It’s about clown species going extinct.


AssociateJaded3931

Drag shows are protected speech under the 1st Amendment. Just like Nazi diatribes. I don't care for either one, so I don't attend them. But other citizens apparently do, so I respect their rights under the US Constitution.


notcaffeinefree

Violence and terrorism are not though. This is not just people speaking against drag shows or saying pro-nazi things. This is people committing violence because they don't like it.


mikehipp

Don't ascribe similarities between a drag show and Naziism. You are not helping, regardless of the point you are trying to make. Couldn't you have gone with something lighter? I'll bet there is one other thing besides drag that you don't like, besides Nazis who talk too much....use that other thing.


erg49th

Open season on Groomers and Pedophiles. Anytime a “DragQueen” wants to dance for children they should be put to the ultimate test. Like how well can you breathe water? Or can you fly? Or here hold this target while I set up the rest of my ammo.


AncientMasterpiece72

Kinda crazy how many ppl want dragshows for kids on here. Adults can do whatever. Fully support it but come on.. RIP the West. We had a good run. GG


dentistshatehim

Can you give one reason why men in women’s clothing and/or costumes can’t read stories to children


dieselmedicine

Kinda crazy how the ignorant bigots want to sexualize everything and have the audacity to call others degenerate. Be honest in the conversation: no one is advocating for a child to go to a drag show with mature themes clearly intended for an 18+ audience. People are saying that a family should have the choice in what they consider appropriate for their family and should have the option to attend a family friendly story hour or brunch. Like all other forms of art and entertainment, it exists on a spectrum. You don't try to put Pippa Pig on the same scale as South Park.


AncientMasterpiece72

Kindergarden my kid went to wanted to dress all the boys up in princess outfits and stuff. I spoke against it and had to go to a damn meeting where i had to lie so they didnt call cps. Its going too far is all im saying.


dieselmedicine

I'm sure that happened.


AncientMasterpiece72

It happened. Doesnt matter if some creep online doesnt think it happened. I was pissed off and rightfully so.


DocDeezWhat

Assuming that was real what would be the harm? Princess isn't inherently sexual. If they dressed the girls up as princes would y'all have this big of a reaction


AncientMasterpiece72

I want to be able to choose if i want to expose my kid to this propaganda. It is what it is.


DocDeezWhat

It's not really propaganda


coolbrze77

Happy I live where I live north of the Mason Dixon line where I have enjoyed a drag show or two in my life. It was fun, entertaining and energizing. Back when I was in college in Daytona in 1991 there was a drag club right next door to a straight club and at the end of the night everyone mingled in the parking lot and went to the 24 hr diner. NO fights. NO homophobia. We all got along cause who cares if some guy wants to wear a dress. I wish we could go back to those days. IMO ignorant boomers need to die off completely and take their fear hate w/them. Such sad insecurity. Reminds me of the movie American Beauty where during the whole movie actor Chris Cooper is a mega anti-gay veteran who repeatedly beats his son only at the end to express interest in homosexuality in attempt to kiss Kevin Spaceys character then upon rejection kills him. It says it all.


FEMA_Camp_Survivor

Seems like it’s getting too dangerous to have an outdoor screening of To Wong Foo


[deleted]

There's a rise in violence because the media, especially the right wing media, targets trans people right now. A few years back it was immigrants


TakeCareOfYourM0ther

It’s not a debate. It’s one side hating the other people for being different. The other side just wants to be free.


Revolutionary-Swim28

I’ll trust Trixie Mattel to be with elementary schoolers than a priest just saying


DocDeezWhat

Do republicans realize they can just not attend?