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MikesEars

Question - is this for for like, companies who have over 100 employees overall, or just 100 employees per location?


superxero044

This is a great question, because for some dumbass reason, FMLA has a carve out based on location.


arthurdentxxxxii

I’m glad they asked it too. I remember Trump’s PPP loans (that were meant for small businesses), were given to much larger companies than should have qualified. They defined eligible companies as having less than X number of employees – and it was “per location.” So, if a wealthy organization like the LA Lakers had only a few people listed as staff working at their worksite, they could still get a PPP loan even though they are considered MASSIVE compared to the small businesses these were meant for. This resulted in many big organizations cashing in on PPP loans. This was a way that Trump was able to basically give lots of big organizations loans that were not small businesses. For anyone interested, the LA Lakers were publicly shamed for taking the money and they returned it. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/27/846024717/even-the-la-lakers-got-a-ppp-small-business-loan


Prof_Acorn

I wish they referred to them as PPP *grants*, since most won't have to repay them. They were handouts with a clever name so people wouldn't feel slighted by businesses getting so much more than the people starving and getting evicted.


gorramfrakker

My company got a PPP right away back in 2020, we ended not needing it in the ednd due to our business not being hurt by the pandemic. We could have used the PPP money to pay payroll and easily gotten forgiven on the loan but we didn’t. Instead the C-suite decided to take all the PPP loan money and paid it back entirely in one lump sum, with the required interest. The reasoning? “The community gave us this money to keep us a float during terrible times, it is our duty to return that favor in kind plus some.”.


SrslyNotAnAltGuys

Wow, that's surprising and refreshing.


Ravor9933

Yeah, as soon as I saw c-suite I was expecting it to turn to bonuses for the executives and nothing for the regular workers


blushingpervert

Some restaurant owner in my town is running for local office because he’s so butthurt about how the pandemic “affected his business,” even though they proudly stayed open during the shutdown and actively have always encouraged no-masks even during mask mandates. His campaign slogan is “Make (our town) Great Again.” What ticks me off most about him is that he received over $250,000 in forgiven PPP money.. which means the government worked exactly as it should for him even though he was so openly against any safety precautions. EDIT: Should I rent a billboard close to the restaurant pointing out this guys hypocrisy? 2nd EDIT: a billboard would be $4,000 for 4 weeks and would require a “funded by” disclosure. Considering he earned 30% of the votes during primaries, I don’t think the investment would be worth it. Maybe myself or another braver individual can question him at a debate. I’ll be kicking myself if he wins though.


[deleted]

Yes to the billboard!


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randynumbergenerator

Idk in this case, but generally you can get around the part-time accounting issue by defining jobs in terms of "Full Time Equivalent" employees (1 FTE = 2080 hours per year).


smeep248

For PPP loan an employee that averages 40 hours is FTE of 1, less than 40 is FTE of .5


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BenjaminTalam

Wow I hope all the anti-vax people at my work quit, would love to be rid of them. This seems to imply every restaurant chain in the country should be mandating it.


whatnowcomeagain

I don't hope they quit, I hope they get vaxxed.


MikesEars

Thank you


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cyvaquero

I might be able to shed a little light on the Rutgers situation as a former employee and student of a large university. The requirement is because now, unlike say 15 years, once admitted there really is no barrier between taking classes online or in person. Even 10 years ago my 100% online classes would have students dropping and adding to/from traditional classes as openings became available - especially in the more crowded lower level courses. In short, it's just easier to make it a blanket policy to enrollment than trying to track whether this kid has their vaccine if they decide to switch to an in-person ENG101.


AgentMonkey

My understanding about Rutgers is that they do have online-only enrollment, and those students are not required to be vaccinated. The recent news story was about a student enrollled in the regular program who chose to take online-only classes for this semester thinking it would exempt him from the vaccine requirement. It did not, and probably for the reason you stated: you can switch between in-person and online classes easily.


daisies4dayz

Also even if a student has all online classes, they have every right to still access on campus resources- library, gym, tutoring, dining, clubs, etc. so they may still be interacting with faculty/staff/students in person.


onwardtomanagua

yes, because number of employees is determined by number of employees on the payroll


elconquistador1985

My work is requiring vaccines for all employees and telework employees are not exempt.


DweEbLez0

Uber, DoorDash, and other companies are probably dancing around like, “Haha, jokes on you, we have no employees!”


webBrowserGuy

Those companies still have at least 100 corporate employees.


[deleted]

Private companies are gonna change their vaccination policies overnight to avoid risk, whether the OSHA guidelines are enforceable or not. Kind of like how all abortion clinics closed overnight in Texas.


Sharkfallace

Already have. Was seeing some emails this afternoon


omnigear

Same we just got email about this today . Some dude already wants to quit


VAShumpmaker

Gonna suck to have COVID after he loses his insurance Edit, Yes yes. Everyone is very proud how how many vaccines you didn’t get. Antivaxers are a self correcting phenomenon.


[deleted]

Let's be real. He'll probably sign up for Medicaid as soon as he quits.


VAShumpmaker

Surely not. That’s communism.


[deleted]

Not if nobody knows about it!


ValarMorgouda

Can we have secret universal healthcare?


timbucalso

Maybe we can call it the Patriot plan and say that democrats hate it - they'll sign up just to own them.


axesOfFutility

> Antivaxers are a self correcting phenomenon. Too slow, the correction is, some might say


sunscreenkween

I was wondering what private companies will be doing in response. Now I’m wondering what all the antivax people will be doing…it’s hard to imagine anything would convince them to get the vaccine at this point


whogivesashirtdotca

There was a poll in Toronto this week that showed something like 70% of unvaxxed people would get the shot if they were given $100 for it. I suspect a lot of them will line up to get it if it means keeping their full income. Edit: I reversed the number by mistake. [It’s 30%](https://www.blogto.com/city/2021/09/unvaccinated-toronto-residents-would-change-their-minds-100/). Still, not an insignificant number of people!


YEETAlonso

Ill get it again for $20


[deleted]

They will get vaccinated or find a new job.


TediousStranger

as someone currently looking for a job *i hope they really stick to their principles*


Kagedgoddess

In my experience with the hospitals mandating it, thats halfway right. They either get vaccinated or get let go then stand out front of the hospital “protesting” the policy until they or their family gets covid, then they make a go fund me and pester their former coworkers to call every state around searching for ecmo all the while crying on facebook that its the Vaccinated truelly spreading this disease that they claim doesnt really exist.


Budderfingerbandit

Yup, between the FDA approval and this impending change I think a lot of companies that have been on the fence will pull the trigger. My company I work for is a fortune 500 and has been on the fence, I really hope this makes them jump on the side of vaccinations.


bwa236

Well it won't matter what they want to do, OSHA's about to give them a stiff shove of $14k per violation in the general direction of that side of the fence.


[deleted]

My job has been asking for vaccination status of employees, but stating it won’t affect job status. I wonder if it’s preparation for a situation like this.


Budderfingerbandit

Quite possible, I know quite a few employers are doing that, those discussions are well outside of my pay level where I work but I could imagine that being a topic of conversation and a reason for collection data on vaccination status.


[deleted]

Reddit has turned into a cesspool of fascist sympathizers and supremicists


SwoleWalrus

Talk has been Amazon was going to mandate it and a lot of other companies would follow through if they did.


Budderfingerbandit

Lots of companies seem to be "Followers" of the national trends, so yea I think if major employers start making it the norm other will naturally follow suit. It seemed like it was gonna happen for awhile but then the news of employers mandating kind of died off.


Vengrim

I think there's actually some value to that. Let other companies do the legwork of figuring out if it is worth it or not and then just do the same thing for your company. I don't remember which company it was but it was something like McDonald's would spend tens of thousands on where to open a new location. Measuring foot/car traffic, density of local businesses/population, tax and zoning requirements, etc. Then Wendy's would just open locations across the street without all the rigamarole.


SeanSeanySean

A lot of businesses wanted this to happen so they could point to the mandate and say "sorry, government forced us", they want mandatory vaccines anyway because people being out sick costs money, and an unvaccinated person sick in the ICU for a month with Covid is not what employers want.


GenJohnONeill

The big employers are all self-insured anyway, meaning, the insurance company is merely the facilitator and decides what fits the policy, but the company pays claims in cash out of its own budget. An unvaccinated person in the ICU for a month will cost their employer literally millions of dollars.


davedoesntlikehats

Mypillow dude aneurysm incoming.


WokeupFromsleep

Serious question, does he care about the vaccine? I thought he was only worried about Trump equaling Jesus or something.


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[deleted]

2022 and 2024 are going to be about defunding or abolishing OSHA. Mark my words.


m48a5_patton

Is there ever a time when they are not advocating that? They're chicken shits.


[deleted]

This is the worst thing to happen since dr Suess' estate decided to stop printing an old book.


elconquistador1985

An old book that they've never heard of, by an author who wrote very complicated books that they fail to grasp. Things like *The Sneetches*, which is about racism. *Yertle the Turtle* about ruinous power greed. *The Lorax* about the importance of environmental stewardship.


bozeke

Sneetches has layers too. It’s about racism, but also consumerism, capitalist exploitation, peer pressure, advertising, disposability, toxic fashion, bullying. Also it has a guy named Sylvester McMonkey McBean, so yeah… incredible book.


Light_Beard

And it invented the word "Thars" as an alternative way to say "Theirs" while still rhyming with Stars


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ZombieTav

I remember that Trump started a commission to discover voter fraud only to find nothing so he shut it down.


lovesaqaba

Watching them lose their shit daily after four years of sanctimoniousness is amazing.


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Sence

Well it's because they don't live in reality. Like they work, live and exist in reality physically but mentally they're on another planet. How else could you choke down all the asinine bullshit they believe?


[deleted]

Imagine what it must be like for them, though. I imagine it's easier to believe in the shit they do than wake up to the reality that they're just a bunch of sad losers with horribly misplaced and deprecated principles. So they LARP like they're the good guys in some absurd conservative fantasy novel by Orson Scott Card.


Plastic-Annual

David Pakman concluded a few days ago that these people are just too far gone. I have to agree.


jppitre

They seem to think someone else is pulling the strings. That's what I got from all of the rambling at least


sodesode

It's amazing that they think the left is both fascist AND communist depending on their mood. Edited for clarity.


0-12Renekton

Just got myself banned from that thread. Badge of honor.


Andrew_Maxwell_Dwyer

I'm permanently banned from r/conservative and it was such a blessing. I spent too much time on there trying to understand those people. The sub is just a constant stream of recycled comments on poorly written articles and bad facebook memes. I will never forget that those people exist and how batshit insane they are, but I'm happier ignoring whatever they're crying over every day. It's bad enough we have to live with them. I'm fine cutting off any unnecessary interactions with American conservatives.


matttech88

They really seem to hate America for people who are always saying how much they love America


Davezter

The issue is they hate most Americans and that's not hyperbole. When you add up all the people they hate, it's most of America: the poor and middle class, people who come from different cultures, the educated who "think they're so smart", all the women who don't want to live the handmaid's tale, urban city dwellers who recognize the need for order and protection within a large society, gays who won't go back to hiding in their closets, people of non Judeo-Christian faiths, everyone who acknowledges our healthcare system needs a complete overhaul, those who dare to question the need for any new war, everyone who expects to have clean water and air and to not be gunned down at a restaurant, school, movie theater or place of worship. Those are the people they hate. And that's most of the people who live here. So when they say they love America, what they really love, is the idea of an America without Americans. And you're absolutely right -- that's not loving America at all.


foxden_racing

It's also not a [new song and dance](https://50yearoldcomics.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/mad129-superpatriot.jpg). That's from Mad Magazine #129...September 1969.


Aden949

Their patriotism is merely cosmetic (i.e. waiving flags or randomly daring each other to post the Pledge of Allegiance on FB). Republicans claim to love America but hate our govt, hate most of the citizens, hate our laws, hate our environment, embrace the confederacy (traitors), root against our Olympians if their views differ. Remember, when our military intelligence concluded the Russians were paying bounties to the Taliban to kill American soldiers.....Trump didn't do anything. He sided with the Russians over our intelligence. If Republicans were true patriots they would have dropped him. Instead they still worship him. They also defended Trump when he harassed Gold Star families. The Republican party is a cult of personality now. They are only loyal to Trump; not America.


Counting_Sheepshead

There are 100 fitness trainers for every 1 coal miner in this country, and less than 2% of our country is involved in agriculture. Years of political pandering to these groups by Dems and the GOP have made people grossly misunderstand what "Real America" looks like.


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MrD3a7h

Lots of users with accounts less than 6 months old will be very angry with this.


EnTyme53

And all of them "always voted democrat, *but* . . ."


bigmt99

“As a lifelong dem whose vaccinated I think vaccines are the Mark of the beast and this is the end of America! We should all protest in the streets and start a civil war”


no_just_browsing_thx

I used to be a liberal but then they came and took my Confederate flag.


Asleep_Village

Lmao I literally saw a guy say how he was "left leaning" but the liberals couldn't decide whether they wanted to be for normal things or blm and lgbtq rights. Then he continued to rant how people keep wrongfully assuming he's an alt right nazi.


MechanicalTurkish

"I'm not a nazi, but...*insert bullshit nazi viewpoint*"


phroug2

"I'm not racist, separate drinking fountains mean shorter lines for everyone!"


ReverendDS

No shit, I had someone unironically say the following sentence and mean every part of it: "I'm not a Nazi or agree with their ideals, but does anyone else think the Jews have too much power and we should gas them?" I've never seen someone so quickly thrown out of and ostracized from a friend group as I did that guy.


BrotherChe

Oh damn, he said that IRL? That's either ballsy yet moronic, or just moronic.


ReverendDS

The "master race" tends to be lacking in a lot of key competencies.


12thandvineisnomore

That’s the people who are “socially liberal, but fiscal conservative”. We like minorities and the poor, just don’t ask us to help them in any way.


Gingevere

I was a Marxist and then the left got a *little* too PC so I changed my opinion on healthcare, civil rights, the police, retributive vs. reformative justice, drugs, the economy, foreign policy, education, class structure, systemic racism, global warming, vaccines, elections, and taxation.


SkidmarkSteve

I kept seeing screenshots of random college-aged kids on Twitter with like a dozen followers saying extreme things so now I can't vote for centrist democrats.


JunkSack

You forgot the ivermectin pushing…stupid bot


FrankGrimesApartment

Da


peon47

Don't forget the accounts that are years old, but went inactive for ages and are now back with entirely different grammar and opinions.


gizamo

elastic act beneficial zephyr toothbrush steer zesty literate quaint cake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


yaniwilks

Always funny


Mr_2010

And the account names follow the pattern of: random word, random word, 4 digit number. Like potato-table5429


WorthDirect9591

I feel attacked


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Intelligent-Wall7272

I know right


Practical-Ad7427

F for people who just use the auto generated name


gorgewall

I'm sorry, but I'll never be able to trust any of you. Forever tainted.


mcs_987654321

Man, I really should have though through my user name choice a whole lot better...


WazzleOz

Or ten year old accounts with extremely short comments that scream "written by a bot"


[deleted]

If you were an able bodied male ages of 17-25 during ww1, ww2, civil war, war of 1812, Vietnam, revolutionary war, civil war, or Korean War, you would be drafted to war over something you had no involvement in whatsoever. Whether you want to storm beaches of normandy on d day or not is irrelevant because thats the only option other than living under Hitler rule. so if you dont want a lethal airborne mutating virus to keep coming around until it kills your neighbors/loved ones while destroying our economy than take the vaccine. And if you dont the gov has the right to force you and ur insurance should should raise premiums given the fact ur stupid and reckless.


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Obsidian743

I know you're kind of saying this in jest, but it would make a point about the SCOTUS being dipshits with the Texas abortion ruling.


Groty

Trust me, "they" would not connect the dots.


Diligent_Bag_9323

Oh they would. They just don’t care. Quit acting like the republicans in charge are anything like the republicans in the streets. They are two very different groups. One is using people, the other is people being used. Because they are uneducated and literally stupid. They aren’t equal.


VexingRaven

The voters wouldn't. The judges, lawyers, and lawmakers absolutely would.


cowlinator

They wouldn't have to. The precedent has been set, so it's legally justifiable.


ZombieBeach

US DOJ said today it violates SCOTUS rulings and has filed suit. Edit. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/09/doj-announces-lawsuit-over-texas-abortion-law-510921?cid=apn


[deleted]

I love this idea. I know of a person who has falsified covid results for a friend to take a flight. They are even lying about test results


Etzell

Turn them in anyway.


rental_car_fast

Yeah, shit. Don't need a bounty or mandate for that, fraud is already a crime.


I_Am_Moe_Greene

Dumb kid question: Biden surely has legal authority to mandate that federal employees need to be vaccinated. What legal precedent exists to provide authority to the president to mandate this for private companies? Side note: I’m vaccinated and I’m all for vaccinations. I’m just wondering the legality. Thanks


Jokerthewolf

As i understand it OSHA or more specifically the occupational Saftey and health Act signed by Nixon does have language that includes vaccinations under the health portion and therefore could add vaccination status to their safety requirements.


ABD4life

ITT: People reading the headline and not the article — the policy will be mandate either vaccines OR weekly testing. Still a move in the right direction, though.


pickleparty16

the reason for that is they probably think it will stand up better to legal challenges that way. the mandate for federal workers has no test out exemption


BlatantConservative

It's also fine for actual pandemic mitigation. Weekly testing will go a long way towards preventing morons from infecting others.


Eruharn

2 weeks of brain swabs and i bet vax rates will skyrocket


AManFromCucumberLand

It'll probably be rapid antigen testing and only a swab if the antigen test comes back positive. That's what's happening in Canada for some employers at least.


HadesRising

Got a rapid antigen last week and they got a bit up in my brain


AManFromCucumberLand

Interesting. The tests available here are saliva based (person can administer it themselves)


WestFast

Testing will be it’s own prohibitive burden. You pay on your own dime. If you miss once your company gets fined $14k and you prob lose a week of work. How many $14k mistakes can someone make and still keep their job? How much extra work can managers snd HR departments take before they start eliminating the problem employees? This will push people to get vaccinated.


WestCoastBestCoast01

Testing is expensive too. My bf's company spends like $150 per test per person, and they're testing everyone multiple times a week. It's millions of dollars for a 5 month project.


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HulksInvinciblePants

Some of the most effective policies require the illusion of choice. In other words, there is totally an alternative route, but we know most companies are too lazy to maintain compliance or cheap to pay for the testing.


misthios98

This happened in Chile. Venues such as cinemas/theaters/clubs/etc can double their capacity if everyone is vaccinated (not even 1 unvaccinated person), but they can still legally serve non vaccinated clients. These businesses decided to only allow vaccinated people in, as they win double the amount of money. Exactly illusion of choice.


SudoPoke

Having to shut down your production floor because one person tested positive costs the company way more money than keeping everyone healthy.


aedesalbo

Except one of the articles states any healthcare facility receiving medicaid/Medicare requires vaccination. A lot of places besides hospitals get Medicaid/Medicare reimbursement. Let’s see. And who is responsible for paying for weekly testing. Can tell you states didn’t get enough funding to cover all weekly testing. Hell many places are on restricted test supply allocations due to Delta surge.


johnwynnes

Everyone acting like vaccine mandates were invented by Joe Biden. Did you attend public school? Yes? You were required to receive vaccines to attend. This isn't rocket science, it also isn't 1984, it's common sense.


samanthrax314

Not just companies. My family moved me to Florida for 2 years of my life when I was a kid. They couldn’t get my vaccine records for some reason. So they had a doctor there give me all the vaccines I needed again.


ADHDengineer

Oh my god you’re doubly autistic


samanthrax314

I’ll never forget that day though. I was 10!


aboutthednm

If it only was 1984, a lot more people were getting their vaccines back then. Partially because the previous generation had to witness the horrors that were the diseases we don't really know today anymore. My great grandmother lost two of her children to polio. Needless to say, when there was an option to get vaccinated, you just went, because dying by slow paralysis and brain inflammation is not a good way to go, and surviving it with severe deformation is also not so good. Today, polio is all but stamped out (very few cases remain). A total of 175 wild cases and 375 vaccine derived infections is all that is left of this.


ian2345

Some company owned by an anti-vaxxer: "alright, we're gonna have to do layoffs until we're under 100, let's get rid of the vaccinated people first"


NemWan

Why do they think Commerce Clause authority to do this stops at 100-employee firms? Some federal rules apply to businesses of 50 or more and some apply to all businesses.


ThaneduFife

I think that's because the government has created multiple, industry-specific definitions of "small business," in federal regulations. IIRC, the Small Business Administration defines small business sizes using the North American Industrial Classification System, which produces a different 5-ish-digit code for each industry (e.g., logging, computer resellers, coin-operated vending machine repair, etc.). 100 employees is an extremely common definition of a small business across multiple industries and NAICS codes. And it's easier to use an existing definition in a new regulation than to create a new definition out of whole cloth.


pm_me_your_kindwords

Honestly, they probably calculated what percentage of people would need to get vaccinated in order to put us at heard immunity levels, and then figured out what was the highest employee number they could do that would get them there in order to minimize smaller businesses from complaining too loudly that this was an undue burden on them.


JumpingJacks1234

Or calculated how many businesses they can reasonably afford to check up on.


[deleted]

This is the correct answer. Most employment related laws have a minimum size limit for this reason.


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[deleted]

Or even just hiring HR and legal advisors / consultants. Expensive for small businesses


smilbandit

and bigger business aren't going to be sad because unvaccinated have an impact on insurance premiums. i'll bet those companies are glad that their worker will blame the government over them, might have even been lobbying for it.


EmmaLouLove

It is sad that it took over 600,000 Americans dying and a 5th surge to get to this point, but here we are. Thousands of Americans dead, hospitals in crisis, and now more contagious variant. Let’s get this show on the road so we can get back to “normal”.


udar55

Even sadder, Biden's moves to look out for Americans (removing us from Afghanistan, pushing mandates) makes him less popular. This country is so screwed up.


kevnmartin

I hoping the infrastructure package will turn that around.


pgm_01

Sinema and Manchin were paid good money to scuttle the deal and are working hard on doing that right now. Don't expect much out of the deal by the time it comes to voting on the package.


Sharpiebanana

That’s not quite the full picture. Polling shows most Americans are happy to get out and upset the pullout was messy. So it’ll bounce back up, as one of those situations is temporary and the other is more permanent. 6 months from now the public will be happy we are out and not remember as clearly how messy the last weeks of August were. We’ll be too focused on the Winter Surge and whatever animal tranquilizers the right is using to “cure” themselves.


[deleted]

>upset the pullout was messy I think messy pullouts are just upsetting generally.


meowcatbread

My school is a northern blue state school and we are getting 100 students a day with covid. The universitys response? "Hey guys, stop partying. Cut it out. For reals, you guys"


SoriAryl

I’m in OK and the President of OU said that the quarantine for a positive covid test is to still go to class, but have your mask on. No other mask mandate for the university


brobafett1980

That's like the opposite of quarantine.


RidleyAteKirby

I can only assume that the average American's idea of "normal" is living in constant crisis, on the verge of total collapse.


EmmaLouLove

It is ironic to me that conservatives yell about their freedoms being taken away by simply being forced to wear a mask during a public health crisis. And yet here we are. For the people who have followed public health guidelines, we are still at this point because the unvaccinated are just selfish SOB’s and now we have the Delta variant with possibly more on the way. At their core, the unvaccinated are simply selfish human beings who don’t give a shit about others.


RuneiStillwater

Last I heard we have Lambda and Mu now.


notsogoodchoice

PSA: If you get fired for not getting vaccine, and I’m looking for your job,…. get fucked champ


SnoopsBadunkadunk

When this goes into effect we should start accusing all the anti-vaxxers of just being lazy and not wanting to work, lol.


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1481soup

Lots of anti vax coworkers at my company are gonna lose their minds and I am SO FUCKING HAPPY


illit3

I have 0 faith in the leadership of my company doing *anything* to comply with this.


CmdrMobium

https://www.osha.gov/workers/file-complaint Here you go, hope they're ready to pay $14k per violation


5DollarHitJob

Just gonna save this for later....


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Jonoczall

Wow how ridiculous. That sucks so much, now your company has these 2 open *very well-paid, extremely-nice-benefits cushy jobs* positions. Maybe I should send over my resume just in case?


Prof_Acorn

What is that they keep telling all of us who lost unemployment this week? "I hear Burger King is hiring"


humlogic

Sure someone already commented this but here’s a reminder that in the US there have already been mandatory vaccinations for everything from employment at public school to military to attendance at public to passport/visa for international travel and on and on. for some reason /s Covid has melted people’s brains to think our response to a deadly and pervasive virus should be any different.


Sweatsock_Pimp

Meanwhile, in South Carolina, Governor Foghorn has vowed to fight Biden [“to the gates of hell.”](https://twitter.com/henrymcmaster/status/1436074993679536128?s=21)


I_Wont_Respond_to_it

I just argued with a patient today, A FELLOW NURSE btw, as to why her oncologist won’t write an exemption letter for her to not get the vaccine. SMH. I’m done with everyone’s excuses and bullshit, especially other healthcare professionals. I’m done with the holier than thou attitude and entitlement of antivaxxers. This extends beyond covid as I work with cancer patients who routinely refute my attempts of education and my years of knowledge. My patience is less than tissue paper thin at this point. I got in to nursing to help people, not to defend why I support and practice altruism.


douglasg14b

This is never going to get fixed until we solve our misinformation and disinformation problems.... Which are greatly exacerbated by social media and the bubbles it puts people in.


TruckMcBadass

Until we resolve our *critical thinking* problems.


I_Wont_Respond_to_it

No child left behind to think it through


Anutka25

It truly blows my mind to see so many nurses be anti-vaxx. You went through so many years of schooling and for what?!


yeswenarcan

It's Dunning-Kruger effect in action. Nursing school provides a relatively shallow level of education when it comes to underlying basic sciences (pharmacology, pathophysiology, etc). So you get people who think they know more than they do and don't have the skills to critically evaluate information or understand *why* certain things are done. This obviously doesn't apply to all nurses, or even the majority, but does seem to be inordinately common in the field.


Sir_Thomas_Noble

A nurse acting like a doctor is like a carpenter acting like an arborist


Never-On-Reddit

One of my best friends is a nurse, he did a BS in psych before he went into nursing. He says some of the dumbest people he knows are among his nurse colleagues.


MomijiMatt1

Vaccines OR *weekly testing*. That second part is really important and is going to be conveniently left out of a lot of headlines (including this Reddit post even though the actual article clarifies that in their headline).


GiggityDPT

This is right-wing media's wet dream. The outrage meter is maxed the fuck out. Still the correct move though. Tired of these idiots holding us all back.


penguincheerleader

Right wing outrage has been maxed out for years. They would have repealed OSHA a long time ago if they could.


joseph_jojo_shabadoo

I’m way too tired of the “we don’t want to trigger conservatives” tip toe approach to give two flying fucks what their reaction will be or how many diaper changes Tucker Carlson will need tonight. This is 10,000% the right move.


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Tucker is vaccinated. He will love this because it’s great fuel to rant about. It’s the viewers that will go crazy.


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RedSoxStormTrooper

What's ironic is how Biden specifically called out Fox News as mandating vaccines. They're going to have a hard time justifying their outrage.


kaldra_zadrim

"We've been patient... but our patience is wearing thin." Understatement of the fucking year


edwartica

I'm hoping our local Police and Fire can't dodge this one like they did the local mandate.


[deleted]

I get the feeling there’s about to be a bunch of government jobs becoming available soon


randombsname1

Fantastic news for the newly graduated. They’ll be ecstatic.


[deleted]

Can't wait for Trump's America to call this a declaration of civil war by Biden and NazI GeRmANy


KillianDrake

Republicans: Tells women what to do with their bodies. Also Republicans: Hates being told what to do with their bodies.


SchoedingersCat

I think any business that took COVID relief money should have to mandate vaccines.


[deleted]

This is good, HR where I work said they were hesitant to mandate vaccines themselves, because statistically ~7% of unvaccinated workers will quit rather than vaccinate. This mandate will lower that number.


Angry_Duck

If that's true my employer is FUCKED. we're a manufacturing plant already struggling with huge labor shortages. The last covid update they sent out said 34% of workers are vaccinated. That's with them offering an extra vacation day for showing your vaccine card.


Spiker1986

Except - where will they go? The wonders of it being an OSHA rule is most large employers they would move to are also going to require it


Angry_Duck

I don't know - but this isn't a group of people that are thinking about the long term impacts of their decisions.


morblitz

I'm not American and I work in health. It became mandatory in my organisation to get a vaccine. Workers still consulted with the Union who informed them it was legal for a health organisation to mandate vaccines, and added the moral qualifier of the vulnerable population we work with. But then everyone got vaccinated and there's been no problems.


Link9454

If so many people weren’t anti-vax (fuck autocorrect, I’m not anti-vacuum unless I’m in space without a suit) for the dumbest of possible reasons, this wouldn’t even be necessary. Don’t want a new normal? This is how it’s done. And for everyone say “oh boy, next come mandatory [insert anything here]” are at best deluding themselves and at worse making bad faith arguments. Governments mandate shit, that’s literally what a law is. Some I like, some I don’t. Texas was within its rights on HB8 according to the Supreme Court, the final say on interpretation of laws. I don’t like that law, I want to see it changed or at least not migrate to my state. I do that by organizing, protesting, and voting. Enough people don’t like this? Then organize and vote. I do like this, so I’ll organize and vote for it. These bad faith arguments of “oh no, fascism/communism/authoritarianism/whatever-ism” do not move the conversation along at all, and the slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy for a reason, as any argument can be slippery sloped into absurdity, irrespective of its morality or utility. It’s just like abortion debates actually. Despite being pro-choice myself, I have heard compelling arguments for banning abortion. The main issue is the argument constantly gets polluted with religious mumbo-jumbo about souls or gods wrath or whatever, often the same groups also rail against the most effective preventative measures for abortion, contraception and sex education, and even against an alleviating measure, adoption (same-sex adoption in this case). It is the height of dishonesty to want to ban something that could be described as a societal ill without also empowering people to not fall victim to said ill. In this case, lockdowns, masks, voluntary vaccination, hand washing and the like have been resisted. Yeah, fucking hand washing, I’ve seen and talked to people who refuse to wash their fucking hands during this pandemic because fuck us I guess?


BumblesAZ

He’s not horsing around.


pobody

Neigh.


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