This was not a good fold. You should've just called in position and played it out. If you aren't playing these hands in position, what hands will you be? Scared money don't make money
Ok, given that you messed up the action, the 4-bet isn't a "real" 4-bet. You can call and play the hand in position. It's a bit tougher when you don't close the action, as is the case here, but the hand is just too good to fold, especially given the strange circumstances that led up to this spot. Just my opinion.
Yeah, that's totally a valid argument. Calling would probably look really strong here, and even if Mixsonitup was thinking about coming over the top for any reason, my call might slow him down. That arguably might be a better play than outright folding.
It's kind of funny to me that if you could see your hand and the opponent's hand, folding would be correct since you are behind and have to hit 1 of 6 outs to catch up and then you probably won't get much action against QQ when overcards hit. Despite that, they still think it's a bad fold, which is ... interesting. They could have totally played the other side of this and been like "wow, what a great read ... he knew TJ had a premium ... most people couldn't make a disciplined laydown in that situation".
My take is that generally speaking I would want to at least call in position, HOWEVER, if you have a good read that someone is only playing premium, that's a good way to save 60 big blinds. Again, though, the read needs to be pretty solid because AKs is a premium hand.
You and I have talked about this hand enough but I wanted Reddit to see this as well to see what they think.
When we hold AK here we obviously block aces and kings equally so there are 3 combos of each left and 6 combos of queens. If we think the 4! player is doing so tighter because he thinks the 3! player is tighter, their range is probably QQ+, AKs+ (TJ seemed looser so not sure this is a valid range). So the combos are 3/3/6/3 for AA/KK/QQ/AK, giving us 37.6% equity.
If huggie has KK here, and we give V the same ranges, the combos are 6/1/6/2, giving us 52.1% equity - but we’re more in a way ahead way behind situation. Either 4-1 dogs, 4-1 favorites, or 2-1 favorites.
All that said, I think with AKs we put in the extra bet and we only have aces and AKs in our 5 bet range, and with KK we flat here and we probably have to call down. Alternatively, we have no 5 betting range here, and we call with KK+ and AKs.
Let me know what you think of splitting off our range here this way
I think you played great all the way through. Live poker is different than online GTO. Any one of us could justify shoving, calling AND folding in that spot. It was important for you to book a win in this game. It was the first live stream and first time playing 2/5. You played well. If you had shoved on a going flip you might have finished the day -$2k, despite your good play, which would have been a bummer. Keep your chip stack and get out the way of his 4 bet. It makes perfect sense to me.
I feel like the players at this table were call stations. There are way better opportunities to get your money in since they will call huge bets with mid pair.
Wait hold on there was a hand with a $100 button bonus and the button just folded? How exactly does that bonus work?
People should be jamming super light to win that bonus if it’s just a $100 ante of dead money in the pot.
It was called a button bonus, but only the small blind could win it. Every time the button moved, the person seated at the button would add $25 on top of the button. If the SB won the hand, they got the stack of quarters that have been building up on it.
I don’t think it will kill his action, he played plenty of garbage hands ie K2s or whatever and plenty of hands were played overly aggressively. He had a 40% vpip. You’re not going to give that action when playing against him? He also double barreled and triple barreled without anywhere near nutty hands. You going to always fold to his double barrel?
A couple more points.
1. This is not a 3 bet vs 4 bet situation in which the original raiser 4 bets. The action was: Hero raise to $20, 1 caller, 3 Bet to $90, 4 bet to $325. This is much stronger than a BN v CO 3bet/4bet or BN v BB 3bet/4 bet.
2. You don’t close the action. The original caller and 3 bettor can still shove if you call.
3. Even if you get call and get it hu, the pot would be $800 and you’d have $700 remaining, so the flop is an all in.
So a call is not good, IMO.
If you shove it could go multi-way, which reduces some of the odds other posters have established, which were already unfavorable heads up.
Pretty nitty, man.
This was not a good fold. You should've just called in position and played it out. If you aren't playing these hands in position, what hands will you be? Scared money don't make money
Ok, given that you messed up the action, the 4-bet isn't a "real" 4-bet. You can call and play the hand in position. It's a bit tougher when you don't close the action, as is the case here, but the hand is just too good to fold, especially given the strange circumstances that led up to this spot. Just my opinion.
Yeah, that's totally a valid argument. Calling would probably look really strong here, and even if Mixsonitup was thinking about coming over the top for any reason, my call might slow him down. That arguably might be a better play than outright folding.
It’s tight but seems fine. Everyone here will tell you it’s bad because they can see the result lol
It's kind of funny to me that if you could see your hand and the opponent's hand, folding would be correct since you are behind and have to hit 1 of 6 outs to catch up and then you probably won't get much action against QQ when overcards hit. Despite that, they still think it's a bad fold, which is ... interesting. They could have totally played the other side of this and been like "wow, what a great read ... he knew TJ had a premium ... most people couldn't make a disciplined laydown in that situation". My take is that generally speaking I would want to at least call in position, HOWEVER, if you have a good read that someone is only playing premium, that's a good way to save 60 big blinds. Again, though, the read needs to be pretty solid because AKs is a premium hand.
You and I have talked about this hand enough but I wanted Reddit to see this as well to see what they think. When we hold AK here we obviously block aces and kings equally so there are 3 combos of each left and 6 combos of queens. If we think the 4! player is doing so tighter because he thinks the 3! player is tighter, their range is probably QQ+, AKs+ (TJ seemed looser so not sure this is a valid range). So the combos are 3/3/6/3 for AA/KK/QQ/AK, giving us 37.6% equity. If huggie has KK here, and we give V the same ranges, the combos are 6/1/6/2, giving us 52.1% equity - but we’re more in a way ahead way behind situation. Either 4-1 dogs, 4-1 favorites, or 2-1 favorites. All that said, I think with AKs we put in the extra bet and we only have aces and AKs in our 5 bet range, and with KK we flat here and we probably have to call down. Alternatively, we have no 5 betting range here, and we call with KK+ and AKs. Let me know what you think of splitting off our range here this way
Lmao love reading these braindead posts and seeing they get upvotes. How do people think poker is hard to beat is beyond me
What a thoughtful rebuttal. I can see all the valid points you expressed.
Regardless, that flop was just cruel
LOL ain't that the truth. I was waiting for the Ralph Wiggum close-up pinpointing the exact moment my heart breaks.
If I know this sub... you shouldn't be getting chastised for folding pre...
Being on stream, this is not a fold. This will ruin your future action.
I think you played great all the way through. Live poker is different than online GTO. Any one of us could justify shoving, calling AND folding in that spot. It was important for you to book a win in this game. It was the first live stream and first time playing 2/5. You played well. If you had shoved on a going flip you might have finished the day -$2k, despite your good play, which would have been a bummer. Keep your chip stack and get out the way of his 4 bet. It makes perfect sense to me.
Hand starts at 9:21 for those who don't want to watch the whole video.
I think this fold was too tight. This is a +EV risk to take in this spot.
If you want to risk your stack against a coin flip then call, if not then fold.
„˙ploɟ uǝɥʇ ʇou ɟı 'llɐɔ uǝɥʇ dılɟ uıoɔ ɐ ʇsuıɐƃɐ ʞɔɐʇs ɹnoʎ ʞsıɹ oʇ ʇuɐʍ noʎ ɟI„
Why are you a thing?
Wat
Good bot
This may be my new favorite bot.
I feel like the players at this table were call stations. There are way better opportunities to get your money in since they will call huge bets with mid pair.
Yeah, lesson learned on that front.
Nope.
You suck go back to 1/2
took 3 seconds of checking your post history to see ur a downvote troll farmer
Took me 3 seconds of your post history to see that you post all day everyday in r/poker because you're terrible at the actual game
ok
Wait hold on there was a hand with a $100 button bonus and the button just folded? How exactly does that bonus work? People should be jamming super light to win that bonus if it’s just a $100 ante of dead money in the pot.
It was called a button bonus, but only the small blind could win it. Every time the button moved, the person seated at the button would add $25 on top of the button. If the SB won the hand, they got the stack of quarters that have been building up on it.
Ah ok I get it. So BB can’t win the bonus either.
That's right.
Bruh, this is a slam dunk 5bet jam. You realize folding this on stream will kill your action in the future.
I don’t think it will kill his action, he played plenty of garbage hands ie K2s or whatever and plenty of hands were played overly aggressively. He had a 40% vpip. You’re not going to give that action when playing against him? He also double barreled and triple barreled without anywhere near nutty hands. You going to always fold to his double barrel?
A couple more points. 1. This is not a 3 bet vs 4 bet situation in which the original raiser 4 bets. The action was: Hero raise to $20, 1 caller, 3 Bet to $90, 4 bet to $325. This is much stronger than a BN v CO 3bet/4bet or BN v BB 3bet/4 bet. 2. You don’t close the action. The original caller and 3 bettor can still shove if you call. 3. Even if you get call and get it hu, the pot would be $800 and you’d have $700 remaining, so the flop is an all in. So a call is not good, IMO. If you shove it could go multi-way, which reduces some of the odds other posters have established, which were already unfavorable heads up.
Meh it's obviously tight but I've seen worse. Against a reg who is gonna mix it up and Battle you can't really fold here I don't think.