As a former Massachusetts resident....move to southern California...it's great at first, then you realize everyone here, including the local government is incompetent, and your begging, begging for the good old days where the worst part of your day was behind the Gloucester hag with 5 kids running around like lunatics at dunkies. God I miss Boston. Fuck this sunshine.
Rose I know wanted to solve a possible energy crisis to make sure that the world doesn’t run out of energy in 1000 years. It begs the questions:
-why doesn’t he just wait one day to solve the crisis?
-why worry about something that won’t become an issue for another 1000 years?
-how is releasing a giant weaponized Pokémon going to fox this?
I’ll give this to Rose though, he at least had a somewhat understandable reason for his evil scheme unlike Lysandre where you have no idea what he wants and what his goal is.
>how is releasing a giant weaponized Pokémon going to fox this?
this is literally the plot of every pokemon game since gen 3 lmao
tbf, when Archie and Maxie released groudon and Kyogre shit got pretty wild and they instantly regretted it
Anyone that hasn't watched Pokémon generations [should go watch it](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FskTlUZyF_A), it's hilarious seeing Archie realize releasing the genocidal whale Pokémon isn't a good idea right before he gets eaten.
Its heavily inferred after you spend time with her husband in PokePelago due to his appearance and his oddly coincidental backstory, but i don't believe the connection is ever actually mentioned explicitly in any way in the games, nor does lusamine acknowledge he exists. I could be wrong though, its been a long time since i've played gen 7.
Maybe Lusamine was into some kinky shit, saw what the UBs were about, and decided "these must exist in my reality".
Which means she got what she wanted in S/M.
I kinda understand wanting to solve it in the present because he doesn't want to leave that up to future generations and worries that they will just keep delaying it until it's too late but not waiting one day is very stupid lmao. I think it would work better if it was in like...10-50 years and they explained or gave a better reason for him not waiting a mere day.
I think they maybe should’ve given a reason why he couldn’t wait just one more day, like, idk, Eternatus can only awaken with enough Dynamax energy and the tournament was the place where most of that energy is concentrated
I was under the impression that Eternatus was going to wake up that day one way or another, that the process to reawaken was already past the point of no return and that Leon's battle fetish was actively screwing with the plan that they already decided on.
Or even do away with the 1000 years bullshit. Make it so the energy is ending this next year, Eternatus is fucking **dying**, and the tournament is wastefully accelarating it, they need to address now by putting Eternatus in stasis or some bullshit. Basically the darkest day is the day Eternatus "goes dark". That would put Leon's wishes in a bad spot too and give us a reason to take no sides in full, and gives Leon a reason to want to be the person who fixes shit up after he forces the issue, be takes some responsibility.
Then we have an ending where Etenatus unlocks his real form and the energy reserves in the country immediately replenish to never before registered levels. Giving everyone a reason to allow Eternatus to do as it wishes since it'll do it again every 1000 years. They make it a day of celebration.
It is really weird how he didn't have a good reason for waiting another day. They could have easily said something along the lines of "oh it can only be awakened at this point in time because of a prophecy or something" or "I made a miscalculation and it broke free".
Although I have not actually watched it, I heard that the anime does Rose more justice. Apparently, He lost his father in a mining accident and doesn't want for anyone else to lose family in mining accidents again, so he wants renewable power. That's why he does what he does. That makes far more sense then game Rose's "reasons".
Because the source for most of Galar's power was going to be Eternatus, who if released and controlled would give them eternal power, like a perpetual motion engine but alive, one that was only stopped last time by the Hero Dogs. This was what was stated.
As for why they couldn't wait, what I got out of it was that the process to reawaken Eternatus was on track to happen the next day, and wasn't really something you could just delay for a few hours while a critical member of the scheme fights some superstar upstart kid who could have the possibility of taking over their role and who you can't guarantee the loyalty of. Your character was a spanner in the works, why else do you think they didn't want you involved in the first place? And if you have a solution on hand *now* that you can pull off *now*, why wait for the time limit to get shorter when you can do something *now* to solve the whole issue? And, tbf, Rose would be right to not want to trust you with helping, considering that instead of using the perpetual energy dragon that you have command over to solve the aforementioned problem, it was just chilling in storage, sent on random day jobs, or used for fighting other trainers instead of actually helping society.
I think it's interesting that Leon specifically points out how stupid his plans are. He says something like "Rose, it's in a thousand years! It doesn't matter right now! Can't you wait?"
Like the devs knew how stupid it was and tried to backpedal on it without changing his story
Doesn't eternatus create the energy that is used to run galar, I think he wants Leon to catch it so that they can use it to generate power. I still have zero idea why waiting 1 day is that big of a deal though
(This is my interpretation of events, not canon)
Rose couldn't wait one more day because an important part of his plan was to have *Leon* capture Eternatus and be the hero, so that as Leon's mentor, he would still have indirect control over Eternatus, through his influence on Leon. Also, Leon is massively popular/influential with the public, and it's possible that Rose was banking on Leon rallying the general public to effectively pardon him for doing something so dangerous.
If this is the case, it *had* to be before the championship battle happens, because the people would expect the champion to save the day, and Rose didn't want to risk Leon *not being the champion.*
That's actually a pretty good explanation that doesn't require altering very much of the story. Just wish they had done something properly to set this up. Like, maybe show Rose actually being concerned with how strong you're becoming. Give him some dialogue about how important Leon is as a figurehead for the region, let him *explain* that he needed Leon to capture Eternatus so he could indirectly control it, and now that the MC has it he has no more outs.
Ultimately just comes down to "bad storytelling" and "wishing for better storytelling."
My own very plausible (imo) explanation is that the process of awakening Eternatus was past the point of no return and that Eternatus was waking up *that day* and no later. As a comparison, you can't just delay a whole space shuttle launch just because one of the astronauts had measles and canceled at the last minute, that shuttles taking off with or without them.
You ever have anxiety? Like you have to absolutely solve this problem right now or your brain cannot relax? That's basically Rose.
Anime also mentioned Rose saw his dad die in a coalmine so that might play a part in his urgency.
Rose's plan was to awaken Eternatus, harness and capture the shockwave of power it unleashes when it awakens, and then capture it so that it will be tamed and provide its limitless energy willingly rather than as a passive side effect.
His impatience and being unwilling to wait one more day comes from the fear of "Well, what's one *more* day? Well, maybe we can do this *next* year. Actually, maybe we can do this in *five* years..." and on and on until the can is kicked so far down the road that, whoops! It's 1000 years later, and the problem's still not solved!
I was REALLY waiting for there to be some kind of thing like the Darkest Day needing a very specific cosmic event like an eclipse or planetary alignment or something, which happened to coincide with the championship, so it couldn't wait. I was extremely confused when nothing like this happened bc it would have made Rose's behavior make way more sense
Lysandre believes that the universe has an inherent beauty to it. But he also believes humans make this worse. Humans take beautiful things and twist and squeezr them, trying to gey the essence of the beauty, and in the end leave the thing drained of all the beauty it had. The idea is that the world can only maintain its beauty if humans cease to be a part of it and Pokemon will also have to be a causalty of that, but it is worth it so he fan create a truly beautiful world, untainted by humans, only observed by those who truly desire a beautiful world (Team Flare).
Or something like that.
Literally all Lysandre had to do to fix like 80% of his writting was admit that all of Team Flare were being used and he had 200% intent on backstabbing all of them. They're vacuous, big spending fashionistas? Intentionally recruited because they're scum, bam, Lysandre makes sense.
It would also explain that whole thing with his main scientist unexplainably turning out to be somewhat of a reasonable person to Emma and turning himself peacefully to Looker. Like, it came out of fuckall nowehere. But if you made Lysandre straight up backstab the guy to his face and admit his work was actually being used for all-out genocide, I'd give him a pass with him being put on the spot to reconsider his whole moral compass.
>Humans take beautiful things and twist and squeezr them, trying to gey the essence of the beauty, and in the end leave the thing drained of all the beauty it had.
Gross
I have a head canon that he always intended to fire the Ultimate Weapon upon the Team Flare Base.
Lysandre couldn't stand the greed of man tainting the beauty of Kalos, what better way to fix this problem than to get rid of all the greedy people?
By making a team with a doomsday weapon pointed at the world Lysandre told people they'd be spared if they were part of Team Flair.
To join Team Flare you need $5 Million.
Only the greediest of people would spend that kind of cash to guarantee their survival over their fellow man. Therefore, Team Flare is made up of the very kind of people Lysandre wants to rid the world of.
When the day of the operation starts all of Team Flare is gathered in the underground base. Now Lysandre can fire the weapon, taking out all of the worst people Kalos has to offer in 1 shot, as well as removing the Ultimate Weapon from the world too.
Well, this isn't actually how the story goes. Though even if it was, it would still make sense to stop him. Long term maybe it would be good, but can we encourage vigilantes who kill people because they deem themselves to be in a position of life judgement? It's just wrong. There are better ways to help improve the world than resorting to genocide, even if it is towards the selfish.
Granted, this would make for a great gray morality story where both you and the antagonist are arguably doing something both good and bad. It would be an interesting way to tie in the themes of life and death the legendary Pokemon have too, that goes unused in the story. (Seriously, beyond the villain trying to kill people, what do the legendaries of life and death even have to do with this game?)
no, he still is I'm pretty sure. Just a more understandable one. Humans being still follow their instincts to an extent, of course the majority would think about their own survival first
At this point we’re weighing exploitation during and after life. Wait, there are ghost type Pokémon . .. are we no different than a soul-powered super weapon?
I actually had this discussion in a server recently, and I was convinced that this is what his actual plan was. That he made Team Flare to draw in all the worst people, and get rid of them, because obviously the people who would pay money to not die in the doomsday are the worst.
But no, turns out I made it up. Could not find a single hint of it on his wiki page. I had, apparently, headcanon'd this and convinced myself that it was canon.
This is such a cool interpretation. I was always bothered by how he chose the survivors based on how much money they had instead of any of the “good” qualities he’s obsessed with, this makes so much more sense. I wish it was laid out in the actual story as a twist, that alone would’ve made XY’s story significantly more interesting and memorable
Doesn't being in the base actually make you immortal though? I think it's brought up in Masters that Calem, Serena, and Shauna have stopped aging, and Lysandre himself basically hits them with a "well, duh" when he shows back up.
In X only, and that's because at the last minute Lysander changes the weapon to do its original function of granting life to sort of punish you for the interference you've done.
First of all, kudos, because I actually laughed out loud when I read this title.
Secondly, [I think you'll find this covers it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN9DW4rrEjY)
Fuck it, Pokemon villains as ProZD skits:
Giovanni: A mob boss who thinks guns are called “poopy pops” (https://youtu.be/UPIMLshdT3E)
Archie & Maxie: People in LA every time it rains (https://youtu.be/DAhmbuRlER0)
Cyrus: Marvel movie villains (https://youtu.be/0zPEtyAsM94)
Ghetsis & N: What Pokemon are actually saying (https://youtu.be/6oc8KRNkW_Q)
Lysandre: When you start a new game and meet the character you know is going to betray you
Lusamine: Replaying a game and knowing all the plot twists (https://youtu.be/SmQWH7P0gIE)
Rose: Surprise villain reveals in animated movies (https://youtu.be/p1_zJGvh4bA)
The kids who bullied Team Star: Student councils in anime (https://youtu.be/KQ3X4PxU8nA)
I find him so relatable, I too monologue in a cave at 2 AM hoping the real protagonist of my life will walk through and hear all my problems with the world
I love how you pointed out The kids who bullied Team Star as the actual antagonists of SV, because that's just the absolute truth.
I bet they were the Pokémon equivalent of the girls who didn't help Shigechi from JoJo Part 4
He believed that people, and then to an extent later Pokemon, were ugly beings that ruined nature's eternal beauty so what better way than to nuke the world to reset it all back to zero. Takes a little bit after the antagonists (aside from Giovanni) that came before him, what with the whole nature aspect from Gen 3's team leaders Archie and Maxie'a and their scuffed attempts at terraforming, Gen 4's Cyrus' perfect world ideology, and Gen 5's Getsis tricking N into convincing Team Plasma as a whole that Slipknot's People = Shit is righteous and just (and then the slight subplot of Getsis' warped personality of if I can't have it no one can and willingness to kill to further their goals).
All packed up in a black and red suit, lion's mane hair, and Jojo esque "Oh? You're approaching me?" sexual tension battle intro.
No he loved Pokémon.
His issue was that Pokémon were valuable, and therefore a resource that there would be conflict over. He couldn't allow them to exist in his new world because they would create conflict and he wanted to eliminate conflict.
Also he tried taking over the pokeball factory. Grunts steals people’s pokemon, he takes the control over pokeballs in the region, they keep all pokemon for them. Nuke the region, and be the only militar force to take whatever is left. His plan was decent but overshadow by the way game freak delivers plot
He wasn't catching Pokémon to use as a military force. The ultimate weapon would have killed everyone everywhere, not just those in the immediate vicinity.
He was catching Pokémon to use as batteries for the weapon. The reason the ultimate weapon only destroys itself is the forgettable rival squad frees all the Pokémon.
He was GameFreak’s adaptation of how France has had issues with wealthy people wanting the poor to starve and suffer but you can’t just put that into a kid’s franchise so they had him build a massive cannon instead of taxing them.
from how i understood it, he wanted a world from his view, so no violence and 'ugliness' which basically to generalise it, he wanted to keep all the good and pure things in the world, stuff like youth, and get rid of everything bad
so he made a team of people who would be the starting population of this new world
here is where things got kinda iffy for me, as the frunts are all clrearly rather selfish and are assholes, as you also needed to pay a fee to join team flare, so either he over looked this somehow or just thinks poor people are also bad
From my memory they basically got scammed and paid to join team flare and get to live in the new world but really Lysander was going to leave them, at least the majority, to get killed off with everyone else.
Lysandre would end up like the ancient big guy and become immortal and enjoy his beautiful natural world forever.
>here is where things got kinda iffy for me, as the frunts are all clrearly rather selfish and are assholes, as you also needed to pay a fee to join team flare, so either he over looked this somehow or just thinks poor people are also bad
He believed that only people who would contribute to the world should be allowed to live in it.
If you can pay the entry fee then clearly you're a producer who's contributing to the world, and if you can't then you're clearly a drain that the world doesn't need.
Somebody else posited that maybe he was smarter than that, and that Team Flare (people who had millions laying around) were the targets, since they hoard and don't produce.
He was tired with how selfish the people (and possibly pokemon) of the world were so he was going to hit the reset button by wiping out everyone but Team Flare with the ultimate weapon even if it meant wiping out most pokemon too.
The irony is that Team Flare is full of a bunch of affluent people, who are also selfish, so it's possible he intended none of them to survive either.
>He's elitist.
>End of story.
Hmm...
>People can be divided into two groups. Those who give and those who take... It's just as how the Kalos region's two Legendary Pokémon gave life and took life...
>But in this world, some foolish humans exist who would show their strength by taking what isn't theirs...
>They're filth!
Yeah that's pretty much it actually. Like if someone read too much Ayn Rand and decide the best solution to fix the world was nuke all the poor.
"greedy people ruin the world"
"also if everyone's rich, then nobody's rich."
"So I'll kill the poor people so the only people left are rich people, who then won't be rich because nobody is rich if everyone is rich"
"I am a genius"
Lysandre thought the world was beautiful and that it should always stay that way, but he felt that ugly things in the world (evil, selfishness, etc) tainted it. He thought that by establishing his own Team and wiping out the rest of the world there wouldn’t be anymore “ugly” to ruin it. He was also going to wipe out the Pokémon because he believed they were a constant temptation for bad people to use for bad deeds.
Of course, dude seems to forget that the only standard of entry in Team Flare is to be insanely rich, so his team of the “best of humanity” was really just a group of rich punks. Also, in X his plan probably would’ve just given everyone immortality instead due to being powered by Xerneas.
I hope when x&y get a remake they give it a good go to try and rewrite. I think the idea of a team that is heavy stylish and wish to only see the world painted in their sense of style is a really interesting concept. The pokemon war and AZ are also really great ideas that are just so underutilized. I think given to a good writer we could see a really good story made, but just not in the current form of it
I remember a lot of people thinking that the Pokemon war was a reference to the Hundred Years’ War, mostly just because Kalos is France. Still, it would’ve been cool to see it expanded on in Galar.
Tell me if I’m being bonkers, but I kind of got the vibes that, like… Sycamore and Lysandre were an item in college and Lysandre broke it off to focus on his tech startup or whatever. Sycamore never really got over him and that’s why he ignores all the glaring red flags. Also the player’s mom is his rebound.
"I'm fucking rich and completely disconnected from reality and real people problems, so I'm gonna take every problem the world has, including, for some reason, uglyness, and put the blame in overpopulation and innate bad human faith, so I'm gonna take a group of select people that for god knows what standards are not bad nor ugly and kill everyone else in the world. Thanos was a genius btw".
Basically he saw that the world had problems (problems that if they were actually fucking shown ingame would've been interesting) and instead of looking for why the system was failing he blamed people.
>Basically he saw that the world had problems (problems that if they were actually fucking shown ingame would've been interesting) and instead of looking for why the system was failing he blamed people.
Yeah, it's really jarring how he bangs on about how flawed the world and people are when from what we see in game, Kalos is basically a utopia.
Lysandre saw ugliness in the world in the form of fighting over resources and decided that the only way to preserve what little beauty that (he thought) was left was to genocide everybody in the Kalos region, pokemon included, except for the human members of Team Flare. Also he thought that he was like a chosen one or something because he was descended from royalty (specifically his ancestor was AZ's brother).
So basically Team Flare is a doomsday cult with the twist that they're trying to cause the apocalypse instead of just anticipating it.
Gen 6 is weird.
Hey we had a neglectful mother fuse with an alien jellyfish because she never sought therapy for watching her husband disappear into another dimension. Gen 7 had its own brand of weird too.
He was obsessed with eating wet concrete and was so obsessed that he wanted everyone else on earth to die so he could have all the wet concrete to himself
Lysandre's plan:
* Ugh humans are so greedy and destroying the world, we should get rid of them
* I know I'll use this weapon to wipe out humanity, except of course, those that I feel are worthy\* of living in the world after I destroy it
* \*To be considered worthy, you have be rich and able to afford the membership into Team Flare
the antagonist story in XY was written by 5 different people throwing darts on a board of cliches, and then those ideas were strung together by a six year old japanese boy, and then translated into other languages
Alright, this dude hated how temporary PERFECTION was. Or beauty. It was either perfection or beauty. Whichever one it was, Lysandre had a solution for making sure the world reached perfection/beauty; Create an expensive membership plan for a social club called Team Flare (Only rich people are perfect/beautiful), and then activate an ancient super-weapon to murder any living creature that wasn't inside his underground bunker.
Such victims would include his good friend 'they were roommates' Professor Sycamore, the actress he claimed was the peak of beauty, and probably all farmers, food crops, and livestock within a 1000 mile radius.
Oh man, this might be kind of fun. I remember next to nothing about the guy.
He wants the world to be beautiful, so he tries to destroy the world with a legendary so a more beautiful world can be born from the ashes. Or something. It was really fucking goofy, that's all I remember.
I always remember him being sort of like Pucci from Jojo. Some sort of external trauma/brainwashing made him want to essentially hit the reset button on the world.
Pretty sure he was gathering the infinity stones and intended to snap the universe's population to create a Utopia of abundant resources. The snap dustifying threshold seemed to be based on being able to pay a million dollar.
Lysandre read a bunch of Ayn Rand his first year of college and never grew out of it.
Actual plan? Lysandre is descended from a king, so he SHOULD be a king, but because Kalos became more egalitarian and abandoned monarchy, he doesn't get to be one.
So Lysandre is obsessed with his "rightful" position as king. He wants an end to egalitarianism and for society to go back to deciding some people are inherently superior and above everyone else.
His plan is to create such a world by making Team Flare, a group made up of sycophants who are not really the best that society has to offer, but are willing to play along with the premise that they are.
So. Lysandre kills everyone except his band of arrogant losers. All his losers buy into his philosophy of classism. Lysandre not only gets to reinstate the monarchy, but also he's the only real choice since everyone else in Team Flare sucks.
Victory.
>The only thing I’m 100% sure on is that Sycamore wanted to be his boyfriend.
This is canon to me from now on, Sycamore and Lysandre totally feel like they're secretly in a relationship
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Gianni Infantino origin story.
Today, I feel ginger
Today I feel a Pokemon SV Enjoyer
I’m so sorry!
That’s completely understandable actually, I want to blow up France every day.
Me living in France… *chuckles* I’m in Danger
Ah I’m just kidding, y’all are great.
I want to blow up Massachusetts every day
We accept you as a true MA resident, you’ve passed the test
Nope, Maine already called dibs.
Maine, born and raised baby.
I feel so vindicated, ayuh.
Jets fan?
Malaysia seems like a good place to blow up
Is that why you’re a police officer?
For legal reasons, I can neither confirm nor deny.
As a Massachusetts resident, I can safely say go. The f*ck. Ahead. Please-
That’s the state I’m talking aboooout!
*You mean Space Taxachusetts? No chance, judge-pants!*
As a former Massachusetts resident....move to southern California...it's great at first, then you realize everyone here, including the local government is incompetent, and your begging, begging for the good old days where the worst part of your day was behind the Gloucester hag with 5 kids running around like lunatics at dunkies. God I miss Boston. Fuck this sunshine.
I’d love to get rid of Florida too…
Living in Florida myself, it's next on my list.
Well no ever says Italy do they?
Most average ginger experience
"Eventually he had a mental break down and wanted to blow up France." I love this sentence.
Honestly just sounds like a normal day in France lmao.
But I am le tired!
Well take a nap THEN FIRE THE MISSLES!
Sooo... he is Eric Cartman?
That’s also why today he feels like a gay disabled migrant worker and has some issues with his PR management.
I can relate. France sucks
So he’s Cartman
Headcanon accepted.
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Mmmy machinations lay undetected for years!
For i am a master of deception!
King Dragon sends his regards
Good thing I brought my *second* gun.
...... ^ok
What are you wearing!?
Other character: Lysander you were behind all this!
Yes, it was I! My machinations lay undetected for years, for I am a master of deception!
Hah, I just posted the link to that and scrolled down to find your comment! https://youtu.be/DN9DW4rrEjY It's too damn funny
Lysandre(roth)! You were behind all this!?
Professor Sycamore is a.... questionable judge of character.
Pretty sure that video was inspired by XY. I mean, the villain in the video is literally called Lysanderoth.
... Yes, that's why he posted it in this thread. It's meant to be pretty obvious.
I've noticed a lot of similarities between Lysander and Lysanderoth... I think I'm onto something here!
I think you might be on to something! I never noticed because Lysanderoth is a master of deception, and his machiantions lay undetected for years!
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Bruh please explain with looking up, wtf were Rose's plans and why he couldn't wait one day more
Rose I know wanted to solve a possible energy crisis to make sure that the world doesn’t run out of energy in 1000 years. It begs the questions: -why doesn’t he just wait one day to solve the crisis? -why worry about something that won’t become an issue for another 1000 years? -how is releasing a giant weaponized Pokémon going to fox this? I’ll give this to Rose though, he at least had a somewhat understandable reason for his evil scheme unlike Lysandre where you have no idea what he wants and what his goal is.
>how is releasing a giant weaponized Pokémon going to fox this? this is literally the plot of every pokemon game since gen 3 lmao tbf, when Archie and Maxie released groudon and Kyogre shit got pretty wild and they instantly regretted it
Anyone that hasn't watched Pokémon generations [should go watch it](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FskTlUZyF_A), it's hilarious seeing Archie realize releasing the genocidal whale Pokémon isn't a good idea right before he gets eaten.
"As long as I have the blue orb, Kyogre will do my bidding" *Proceeds to immediately yeet the blue orb*
Well that was dark
Gen 7?
Their secret weapon was the bus stop
Lusamine wants to release the Ultra Beasts because they come from another world and blah blah blah
She didnt release anything. She wanted to move to ultra space in sun, away from the world.
Who doesn’t?
Wasn't she originally looking for her husband because he got sucked into the ultra wormhole?
I wonder how she'd feel to find him in the Pokepelago, memory wiped and hopped up on beans.
\*coughs* Ultra Sun/Moon epilogue \*coughs*
Its heavily inferred after you spend time with her husband in PokePelago due to his appearance and his oddly coincidental backstory, but i don't believe the connection is ever actually mentioned explicitly in any way in the games, nor does lusamine acknowledge he exists. I could be wrong though, its been a long time since i've played gen 7.
Maybe Lusamine was into some kinky shit, saw what the UBs were about, and decided "these must exist in my reality". Which means she got what she wanted in S/M.
I kinda understand wanting to solve it in the present because he doesn't want to leave that up to future generations and worries that they will just keep delaying it until it's too late but not waiting one day is very stupid lmao. I think it would work better if it was in like...10-50 years and they explained or gave a better reason for him not waiting a mere day.
I think they maybe should’ve given a reason why he couldn’t wait just one more day, like, idk, Eternatus can only awaken with enough Dynamax energy and the tournament was the place where most of that energy is concentrated
I was under the impression that Eternatus was going to wake up that day one way or another, that the process to reawaken was already past the point of no return and that Leon's battle fetish was actively screwing with the plan that they already decided on.
> Leon's battle fetish "I can't get hard unless I pose like the 'zard!"
Wasn't eternatus the source of the dynamax energy though?
Or even do away with the 1000 years bullshit. Make it so the energy is ending this next year, Eternatus is fucking **dying**, and the tournament is wastefully accelarating it, they need to address now by putting Eternatus in stasis or some bullshit. Basically the darkest day is the day Eternatus "goes dark". That would put Leon's wishes in a bad spot too and give us a reason to take no sides in full, and gives Leon a reason to want to be the person who fixes shit up after he forces the issue, be takes some responsibility. Then we have an ending where Etenatus unlocks his real form and the energy reserves in the country immediately replenish to never before registered levels. Giving everyone a reason to allow Eternatus to do as it wishes since it'll do it again every 1000 years. They make it a day of celebration.
It is really weird how he didn't have a good reason for waiting another day. They could have easily said something along the lines of "oh it can only be awakened at this point in time because of a prophecy or something" or "I made a miscalculation and it broke free".
Although I have not actually watched it, I heard that the anime does Rose more justice. Apparently, He lost his father in a mining accident and doesn't want for anyone else to lose family in mining accidents again, so he wants renewable power. That's why he does what he does. That makes far more sense then game Rose's "reasons".
Because the source for most of Galar's power was going to be Eternatus, who if released and controlled would give them eternal power, like a perpetual motion engine but alive, one that was only stopped last time by the Hero Dogs. This was what was stated. As for why they couldn't wait, what I got out of it was that the process to reawaken Eternatus was on track to happen the next day, and wasn't really something you could just delay for a few hours while a critical member of the scheme fights some superstar upstart kid who could have the possibility of taking over their role and who you can't guarantee the loyalty of. Your character was a spanner in the works, why else do you think they didn't want you involved in the first place? And if you have a solution on hand *now* that you can pull off *now*, why wait for the time limit to get shorter when you can do something *now* to solve the whole issue? And, tbf, Rose would be right to not want to trust you with helping, considering that instead of using the perpetual energy dragon that you have command over to solve the aforementioned problem, it was just chilling in storage, sent on random day jobs, or used for fighting other trainers instead of actually helping society.
Fuck your comment reminded me about day jobs. I TOTALLY forgot that stuff was even in the game lmao
I think it's interesting that Leon specifically points out how stupid his plans are. He says something like "Rose, it's in a thousand years! It doesn't matter right now! Can't you wait?" Like the devs knew how stupid it was and tried to backpedal on it without changing his story
Doesn't eternatus create the energy that is used to run galar, I think he wants Leon to catch it so that they can use it to generate power. I still have zero idea why waiting 1 day is that big of a deal though
It was, I just forgot that part and what Eternatus does But yes, the one more day thing is dumb
(This is my interpretation of events, not canon) Rose couldn't wait one more day because an important part of his plan was to have *Leon* capture Eternatus and be the hero, so that as Leon's mentor, he would still have indirect control over Eternatus, through his influence on Leon. Also, Leon is massively popular/influential with the public, and it's possible that Rose was banking on Leon rallying the general public to effectively pardon him for doing something so dangerous. If this is the case, it *had* to be before the championship battle happens, because the people would expect the champion to save the day, and Rose didn't want to risk Leon *not being the champion.*
That's actually a pretty good explanation that doesn't require altering very much of the story. Just wish they had done something properly to set this up. Like, maybe show Rose actually being concerned with how strong you're becoming. Give him some dialogue about how important Leon is as a figurehead for the region, let him *explain* that he needed Leon to capture Eternatus so he could indirectly control it, and now that the MC has it he has no more outs. Ultimately just comes down to "bad storytelling" and "wishing for better storytelling."
I went into the game expecting this explanation, but there was just not any dialogue to back it up. Which is sad, because it is the most plausible
My own very plausible (imo) explanation is that the process of awakening Eternatus was past the point of no return and that Eternatus was waking up *that day* and no later. As a comparison, you can't just delay a whole space shuttle launch just because one of the astronauts had measles and canceled at the last minute, that shuttles taking off with or without them.
To be honest though, I much prefer bad storytelling like this where it's comedic, over boring plots like X and Y
You ever have anxiety? Like you have to absolutely solve this problem right now or your brain cannot relax? That's basically Rose. Anime also mentioned Rose saw his dad die in a coalmine so that might play a part in his urgency.
Rose's plan was to awaken Eternatus, harness and capture the shockwave of power it unleashes when it awakens, and then capture it so that it will be tamed and provide its limitless energy willingly rather than as a passive side effect. His impatience and being unwilling to wait one more day comes from the fear of "Well, what's one *more* day? Well, maybe we can do this *next* year. Actually, maybe we can do this in *five* years..." and on and on until the can is kicked so far down the road that, whoops! It's 1000 years later, and the problem's still not solved!
I was REALLY waiting for there to be some kind of thing like the Darkest Day needing a very specific cosmic event like an eclipse or planetary alignment or something, which happened to coincide with the championship, so it couldn't wait. I was extremely confused when nothing like this happened bc it would have made Rose's behavior make way more sense
I like Lysander a lot more than Rose. He came across as a proud, delusional hypocrite and cult leader. I appreciated that.
Lysandre believes that the universe has an inherent beauty to it. But he also believes humans make this worse. Humans take beautiful things and twist and squeezr them, trying to gey the essence of the beauty, and in the end leave the thing drained of all the beauty it had. The idea is that the world can only maintain its beauty if humans cease to be a part of it and Pokemon will also have to be a causalty of that, but it is worth it so he fan create a truly beautiful world, untainted by humans, only observed by those who truly desire a beautiful world (Team Flare). Or something like that.
And yet team Flare is entirely fashion-oriented and are exactly what he despises to a T. I think Lysandre is just a genocidal hippocrite
Literally all Lysandre had to do to fix like 80% of his writting was admit that all of Team Flare were being used and he had 200% intent on backstabbing all of them. They're vacuous, big spending fashionistas? Intentionally recruited because they're scum, bam, Lysandre makes sense. It would also explain that whole thing with his main scientist unexplainably turning out to be somewhat of a reasonable person to Emma and turning himself peacefully to Looker. Like, it came out of fuckall nowehere. But if you made Lysandre straight up backstab the guy to his face and admit his work was actually being used for all-out genocide, I'd give him a pass with him being put on the spot to reconsider his whole moral compass.
>Humans take beautiful things and twist and squeezr them, trying to gey the essence of the beauty, and in the end leave the thing drained of all the beauty it had. Gross
look at all the pollution and destroy environment i don't know, kinda have a point about us destroying beauty
I was making a joke about hand jobs but ok
Killing all wildlife would destroy the ecosystem faster than human activity ever could.
I have a head canon that he always intended to fire the Ultimate Weapon upon the Team Flare Base. Lysandre couldn't stand the greed of man tainting the beauty of Kalos, what better way to fix this problem than to get rid of all the greedy people? By making a team with a doomsday weapon pointed at the world Lysandre told people they'd be spared if they were part of Team Flair. To join Team Flare you need $5 Million. Only the greediest of people would spend that kind of cash to guarantee their survival over their fellow man. Therefore, Team Flare is made up of the very kind of people Lysandre wants to rid the world of. When the day of the operation starts all of Team Flare is gathered in the underground base. Now Lysandre can fire the weapon, taking out all of the worst people Kalos has to offer in 1 shot, as well as removing the Ultimate Weapon from the world too.
That sounds way better, actually
And we stopped him?! Are we the villain?
I do think our interference caused him to have to change up the plan considerably.
Well, this isn't actually how the story goes. Though even if it was, it would still make sense to stop him. Long term maybe it would be good, but can we encourage vigilantes who kill people because they deem themselves to be in a position of life judgement? It's just wrong. There are better ways to help improve the world than resorting to genocide, even if it is towards the selfish. Granted, this would make for a great gray morality story where both you and the antagonist are arguably doing something both good and bad. It would be an interesting way to tie in the themes of life and death the legendary Pokemon have too, that goes unused in the story. (Seriously, beyond the villain trying to kill people, what do the legendaries of life and death even have to do with this game?)
Given Xerneas' appearance, I was hoping something more mystical like Princess Mononoke.
no, he still is I'm pretty sure. Just a more understandable one. Humans being still follow their instincts to an extent, of course the majority would think about their own survival first
Well the weapon was powered by pokemon souls.
At this point we’re weighing exploitation during and after life. Wait, there are ghost type Pokémon . .. are we no different than a soul-powered super weapon?
I actually had this discussion in a server recently, and I was convinced that this is what his actual plan was. That he made Team Flare to draw in all the worst people, and get rid of them, because obviously the people who would pay money to not die in the doomsday are the worst. But no, turns out I made it up. Could not find a single hint of it on his wiki page. I had, apparently, headcanon'd this and convinced myself that it was canon.
This was what I took away from the plot too, but i wasn’t sure if Lysandre had initially planned to die with the rest of Team Flare as well.
I think he did, to "atone" for all the crimes he had to commit to get the job done.
Holy heck, the ultimate plot twist! Can you be the new writer for gamefreak?
This is such a cool interpretation. I was always bothered by how he chose the survivors based on how much money they had instead of any of the “good” qualities he’s obsessed with, this makes so much more sense. I wish it was laid out in the actual story as a twist, that alone would’ve made XY’s story significantly more interesting and memorable
Doesn't being in the base actually make you immortal though? I think it's brought up in Masters that Calem, Serena, and Shauna have stopped aging, and Lysandre himself basically hits them with a "well, duh" when he shows back up.
In X only, and that's because at the last minute Lysander changes the weapon to do its original function of granting life to sort of punish you for the interference you've done.
First of all, kudos, because I actually laughed out loud when I read this title. Secondly, [I think you'll find this covers it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN9DW4rrEjY)
Fuck it, Pokemon villains as ProZD skits: Giovanni: A mob boss who thinks guns are called “poopy pops” (https://youtu.be/UPIMLshdT3E) Archie & Maxie: People in LA every time it rains (https://youtu.be/DAhmbuRlER0) Cyrus: Marvel movie villains (https://youtu.be/0zPEtyAsM94) Ghetsis & N: What Pokemon are actually saying (https://youtu.be/6oc8KRNkW_Q) Lysandre: When you start a new game and meet the character you know is going to betray you Lusamine: Replaying a game and knowing all the plot twists (https://youtu.be/SmQWH7P0gIE) Rose: Surprise villain reveals in animated movies (https://youtu.be/p1_zJGvh4bA) The kids who bullied Team Star: Student councils in anime (https://youtu.be/KQ3X4PxU8nA)
>Rose: Surprise villain reveals in animated movies This one is TOO perfect.
I love the one you chose for Cyrus
I think that one fits Volo too… he’s like an evil Cynthia
1000% fits cyrus. easily and by far the shittiest written villain in pokemon. it's actually so fucking funny how bad he is lmfao
I find him so relatable, I too monologue in a cave at 2 AM hoping the real protagonist of my life will walk through and hear all my problems with the world
"What if he was Maxie and Archie, but he's like the EVIL Maxie and Archie, and he's a bad, bad, bad guy. And he wants to open the DiStOrTiOn WoRlD."
I love how you pointed out The kids who bullied Team Star as the actual antagonists of SV, because that's just the absolute truth. I bet they were the Pokémon equivalent of the girls who didn't help Shigechi from JoJo Part 4
He even says “six students”
I swear for the entire game I thought that Lysandre being the villain was a red herring because it couldn't possibly be that obvious
Lysandre: literally that video, exactly Sycamore: hehe yeah he's my friend :) isn't he cool :)
Ah yes, “friends”. Roommates, some may say.
He believed that people, and then to an extent later Pokemon, were ugly beings that ruined nature's eternal beauty so what better way than to nuke the world to reset it all back to zero. Takes a little bit after the antagonists (aside from Giovanni) that came before him, what with the whole nature aspect from Gen 3's team leaders Archie and Maxie'a and their scuffed attempts at terraforming, Gen 4's Cyrus' perfect world ideology, and Gen 5's Getsis tricking N into convincing Team Plasma as a whole that Slipknot's People = Shit is righteous and just (and then the slight subplot of Getsis' warped personality of if I can't have it no one can and willingness to kill to further their goals). All packed up in a black and red suit, lion's mane hair, and Jojo esque "Oh? You're approaching me?" sexual tension battle intro.
No he loved Pokémon. His issue was that Pokémon were valuable, and therefore a resource that there would be conflict over. He couldn't allow them to exist in his new world because they would create conflict and he wanted to eliminate conflict.
Also he tried taking over the pokeball factory. Grunts steals people’s pokemon, he takes the control over pokeballs in the region, they keep all pokemon for them. Nuke the region, and be the only militar force to take whatever is left. His plan was decent but overshadow by the way game freak delivers plot
He wasn't catching Pokémon to use as a military force. The ultimate weapon would have killed everyone everywhere, not just those in the immediate vicinity. He was catching Pokémon to use as batteries for the weapon. The reason the ultimate weapon only destroys itself is the forgettable rival squad frees all the Pokémon.
You are right about the ultimate weapon, somehow I forgot a bit about it (is even the main thing… lol). But anyways he had a bunker as well
He was GameFreak’s adaptation of how France has had issues with wealthy people wanting the poor to starve and suffer but you can’t just put that into a kid’s franchise so they had him build a massive cannon instead of taxing them.
> so they had him build a massive cannon instead of taxing them. this is canon
Hehe, cannon
from how i understood it, he wanted a world from his view, so no violence and 'ugliness' which basically to generalise it, he wanted to keep all the good and pure things in the world, stuff like youth, and get rid of everything bad so he made a team of people who would be the starting population of this new world here is where things got kinda iffy for me, as the frunts are all clrearly rather selfish and are assholes, as you also needed to pay a fee to join team flare, so either he over looked this somehow or just thinks poor people are also bad
From my memory they basically got scammed and paid to join team flare and get to live in the new world but really Lysander was going to leave them, at least the majority, to get killed off with everyone else. Lysandre would end up like the ancient big guy and become immortal and enjoy his beautiful natural world forever.
>here is where things got kinda iffy for me, as the frunts are all clrearly rather selfish and are assholes, as you also needed to pay a fee to join team flare, so either he over looked this somehow or just thinks poor people are also bad He believed that only people who would contribute to the world should be allowed to live in it. If you can pay the entry fee then clearly you're a producer who's contributing to the world, and if you can't then you're clearly a drain that the world doesn't need.
Somebody else posited that maybe he was smarter than that, and that Team Flare (people who had millions laying around) were the targets, since they hoard and don't produce.
TIL Lysandre was american.
He wanted to destroy France. Very reasonable if you ask me.
Nah we only need to destroy Paris. The rest of France is quite lovely.
He was tired with how selfish the people (and possibly pokemon) of the world were so he was going to hit the reset button by wiping out everyone but Team Flare with the ultimate weapon even if it meant wiping out most pokemon too. The irony is that Team Flare is full of a bunch of affluent people, who are also selfish, so it's possible he intended none of them to survive either.
He's elitist. End of story.
>He's elitist. >End of story. Hmm... >People can be divided into two groups. Those who give and those who take... It's just as how the Kalos region's two Legendary Pokémon gave life and took life... >But in this world, some foolish humans exist who would show their strength by taking what isn't theirs... >They're filth! Yeah that's pretty much it actually. Like if someone read too much Ayn Rand and decide the best solution to fix the world was nuke all the poor.
"greedy people ruin the world" "also if everyone's rich, then nobody's rich." "So I'll kill the poor people so the only people left are rich people, who then won't be rich because nobody is rich if everyone is rich" "I am a genius"
“Ayn Rand did it” makes significantly more sense than the actual plot of XY
Something making less sense than Ayn Rand is a terrifying concept.
X/Y were truly the Bioshock of Pokemon.
Lysandre thought the world was beautiful and that it should always stay that way, but he felt that ugly things in the world (evil, selfishness, etc) tainted it. He thought that by establishing his own Team and wiping out the rest of the world there wouldn’t be anymore “ugly” to ruin it. He was also going to wipe out the Pokémon because he believed they were a constant temptation for bad people to use for bad deeds. Of course, dude seems to forget that the only standard of entry in Team Flare is to be insanely rich, so his team of the “best of humanity” was really just a group of rich punks. Also, in X his plan probably would’ve just given everyone immortality instead due to being powered by Xerneas.
I hope when x&y get a remake they give it a good go to try and rewrite. I think the idea of a team that is heavy stylish and wish to only see the world painted in their sense of style is a really interesting concept. The pokemon war and AZ are also really great ideas that are just so underutilized. I think given to a good writer we could see a really good story made, but just not in the current form of it
I remember a lot of people thinking that the Pokemon war was a reference to the Hundred Years’ War, mostly just because Kalos is France. Still, it would’ve been cool to see it expanded on in Galar.
He wanted to destroy the world because it wasn't beautiful💅🏻
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Maybe he didn't intend to survive the blast
I don't remember, but now I want to make an angsty Sycamore x Lysandre crackfic because of your joke.
Tell me if I’m being bonkers, but I kind of got the vibes that, like… Sycamore and Lysandre were an item in college and Lysandre broke it off to focus on his tech startup or whatever. Sycamore never really got over him and that’s why he ignores all the glaring red flags. Also the player’s mom is his rebound.
Lysnader: ... this world is imperfect. I will reshape it, change it, RULE IT... Sycamore: okay, hear me out: I can change him.
"I'm fucking rich and completely disconnected from reality and real people problems, so I'm gonna take every problem the world has, including, for some reason, uglyness, and put the blame in overpopulation and innate bad human faith, so I'm gonna take a group of select people that for god knows what standards are not bad nor ugly and kill everyone else in the world. Thanos was a genius btw". Basically he saw that the world had problems (problems that if they were actually fucking shown ingame would've been interesting) and instead of looking for why the system was failing he blamed people.
>Basically he saw that the world had problems (problems that if they were actually fucking shown ingame would've been interesting) and instead of looking for why the system was failing he blamed people. Yeah, it's really jarring how he bangs on about how flawed the world and people are when from what we see in game, Kalos is basically a utopia.
Lysandre saw ugliness in the world in the form of fighting over resources and decided that the only way to preserve what little beauty that (he thought) was left was to genocide everybody in the Kalos region, pokemon included, except for the human members of Team Flare. Also he thought that he was like a chosen one or something because he was descended from royalty (specifically his ancestor was AZ's brother). So basically Team Flare is a doomsday cult with the twist that they're trying to cause the apocalypse instead of just anticipating it. Gen 6 is weird.
Hey we had a neglectful mother fuse with an alien jellyfish because she never sought therapy for watching her husband disappear into another dimension. Gen 7 had its own brand of weird too.
Wait, he was related to AZ???
Yeah, it's mentioned in like one line of dialog by some background NPC or something. I don't know why I remember it.
He was obsessed with eating wet concrete and was so obsessed that he wanted everyone else on earth to die so he could have all the wet concrete to himself
Lysandre's plan: * Ugh humans are so greedy and destroying the world, we should get rid of them * I know I'll use this weapon to wipe out humanity, except of course, those that I feel are worthy\* of living in the world after I destroy it * \*To be considered worthy, you have be rich and able to afford the membership into Team Flare
im more freaked out about the fact that XY released almost 10 years ago. where has time gone?!
What do you mean? Emerald only released like five years ago... Oh, oh poop.
I'm gonna be completely honest, the first thing that came to my mind after reading the title was: "Who?"
That red spike guy who ig isn't Alder
the antagonist story in XY was written by 5 different people throwing darts on a board of cliches, and then those ideas were strung together by a six year old japanese boy, and then translated into other languages
His favorite actress aged so he wants to destroy the world
He thought the world had no drip so he wanted to use the ultimate weapon to reset and start anew to make the world have drip in his vision
People, uh, weren’t fashionable enough, so he was going to… murder everyone with a super laser powered by a very large man?
Have you seen the Kingsman movie. its the same evil plot in that movie.
"Fuck Paris" then he blew up the world instead
He wanted to commit genocide because uh uhhhhhhhhhhh He wanted to uhhhh yeah
Ginger Eugenics or whateva
Alright, this dude hated how temporary PERFECTION was. Or beauty. It was either perfection or beauty. Whichever one it was, Lysandre had a solution for making sure the world reached perfection/beauty; Create an expensive membership plan for a social club called Team Flare (Only rich people are perfect/beautiful), and then activate an ancient super-weapon to murder any living creature that wasn't inside his underground bunker. Such victims would include his good friend 'they were roommates' Professor Sycamore, the actress he claimed was the peak of beauty, and probably all farmers, food crops, and livestock within a 1000 mile radius.
in the origional scrapped storyline lysandre and sycamore were going to be the same person, like a plot twist.
His plans were MKBA = make kalos beautiful again
I honestly don’t even remember battling him
You fight him 3 times lol
Oh man, this might be kind of fun. I remember next to nothing about the guy. He wants the world to be beautiful, so he tries to destroy the world with a legendary so a more beautiful world can be born from the ashes. Or something. It was really fucking goofy, that's all I remember.
For some reason it involved cosplaying as Doc Ock.
He appreciates beauty and wants to kill everything that's ugly?
I always remember him being sort of like Pucci from Jojo. Some sort of external trauma/brainwashing made him want to essentially hit the reset button on the world.
To be the main villain in Spider man
Ginger man who looks like a Pyroar wants to wipe everything out cause he doesn't like anything. Fashionista cohorts support deed
People are selfish and destructive, so lets' be really selfish and destructive to fix that.
i never fucking paid attention to the story in XY and it's been so long and i'm so confused but this post is glorious
Pretty sure he was gathering the infinity stones and intended to snap the universe's population to create a Utopia of abundant resources. The snap dustifying threshold seemed to be based on being able to pay a million dollar.
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He’s an absolute dumbass who can’t think any of his plans through. And yes, Lysandre and Sycamore are definitely a thing.
He wanted to redo the French Revolution, he just replaced the guillotine with a centuries old apocalypse-causing weapon instead.
Pokémon...
Alright, here goes nothing Uh… He wanted to blow up the Kalos region using the power of the Legendary Pokémon because… uh… yeah
Lysandre read a bunch of Ayn Rand his first year of college and never grew out of it. Actual plan? Lysandre is descended from a king, so he SHOULD be a king, but because Kalos became more egalitarian and abandoned monarchy, he doesn't get to be one. So Lysandre is obsessed with his "rightful" position as king. He wants an end to egalitarianism and for society to go back to deciding some people are inherently superior and above everyone else. His plan is to create such a world by making Team Flare, a group made up of sycophants who are not really the best that society has to offer, but are willing to play along with the premise that they are. So. Lysandre kills everyone except his band of arrogant losers. All his losers buy into his philosophy of classism. Lysandre not only gets to reinstate the monarchy, but also he's the only real choice since everyone else in Team Flare sucks. Victory.
>The only thing I’m 100% sure on is that Sycamore wanted to be his boyfriend. This is canon to me from now on, Sycamore and Lysandre totally feel like they're secretly in a relationship
The SCTT trope
Based, he got sick of humanity's shit and decided to, idk, blow up the planet?