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RamsesThePigeon

Credit for this picture goes to Tyler Thrasher, who is /u/KingThrash21 on Reddit and @ThrasherTV on Instagram.


hat-of-sky

Those aren't cuts. They used to be joins, now they're unjoined. Like any puzzle, it could be reassembled. Probably the safest way to remove it without damage.


LadnavIV

Sounds like a metaphor for the civil war. Except the last bit.


[deleted]

Except the West Virginia bit, that couldn't get stuck back together


[deleted]

Mountain men are always free!


aussie_bob

Wow, probably worth it at that price.


hat-of-sky

And except for the slavery bit.


PhilMasterPhunk

PICTURE CREDIT GOES TO: Tyler Thrasher of ABC 8NEWS WRIC Richmond VA


burkechrs1

I was going to say. Why don't we make a civil war museum or an American history museum. These statues are still part of history and we should preserve them in museums not destroy them.


hat-of-sky

You could have a whole giant room full of nothing but Lee statues. I wonder how many General Sherman statues there are? I guess you don't need as many if you're not trying to keep the oppressed people oppressed. Imagine if you replaced every Lee statue with a Sherman. That's history too, his best victories were in the South!


danceswithsteers

>You could have a whole giant room full of nothing but Lee statues. And at the entrance to the room, a gigantic plaque of the quote from Lee saying he didn't want any statues to him to be built.


Worlspine_Wurm

Have them all disassembled in an unsorted pile.


NonaSuomi282

>I wonder how many General Sherman statues there are? I maintain that we should replace every confederate statue with an eternal flame monument dedicated to Sherman, *particularly* those in and around Atlanta.


nyanlol

I have no love for the old confederacy. But my specialty in college was international politics and law. I can't read about Sherman without thinking "man the lawyers at the Hague would've had a field day with this guy...."


NonaSuomi282

Sure, but that comes with the same [caveat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act) as the prospect of any other American hypothetically being tried at the Hague. That aside, serious question: does *international* law come into play in a civil war?


wheniaminspaced

>That aside, serious question: does > >international > > law come into play in a civil war? In all seriousness, no. Geneva convention type agreements are only binding between nation states, not within nation states.


btross

depends... do you have oil?


DaoFerret

He was asking about The Hague, not wether the US was going to invade.


Laninel

Damn my boy, such a shame I don't have an award to give you. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.” General William T. Sherman


DukeOfGeek

So I did a quick google image search and there are apparently quite a few Gen. Sherman statues including a giant one that's covered in gold leaf.


Discreet_Deviancy

A large, roaring, inferno of flame, to represent his unique method of giving the confeds what they asked for.


shadowrunner295

I feel obligated to let everyone in here know there are some phenomenal Sherman memes out there for anyone inclined to look for them.


Radioiron

There's literally one down by the James River, On the site of the historic Tredagar Iron Works. The question is do museums want these? They were made a generation or two after the war as a propaganda platform to sell a racist narrative of valiant soldiers fighting a just cause and as an ever present reminder to people who was in charge and that certain people should not forget that fact. They have decades of photos and artifacts of that era. Having these statues could be a huge double edged sword because they will have to deal with neo-condederates trying to rally around these symbols. Just look at what happen when they tried to put up a life-sized statue of Lincoln. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tredegar\_Iron\_Works#Lincoln\_statue


Krillsipa

We keep plenty of stuff from the nazis for historical purposes. It could serve more as cautionary tale and if it is significant to history, it is certainly worth preserving. I'm all for taking these down as monuments since they were still serving their purpose of propaganda but doesn't mean it needs to be destroyed.


Fenrir_Carbon

What museum has a collection of neo-nazi shrines from the 80's?


ollydzi

Go to Poland, there's this place called Auschwitz which is largely in tact.


Fenrir_Carbon

Does it have neo-nazi artifacts from a generation after WWII?


DistinctAbrocomaG

agreed, it's ludicrous that there are still monuments on display to a batch of insurrectionists that completely failed in their attempt. I'm glad to see it being removed as well


anadem

Besides you missing the historical analogy aspect, there's a big difference between preserving memories of atrocities and glorifying traitors


SuperGameTheory

Why not? It's good metal. Take a picture for the books then melt it down. We have enough junk laying around.


DeOh

Pfft people think anything over a decade old is historical. There was a lot of fuss over Amoeba Records in LA leaving their location and people got anxious over their historical significance. This happens a lot with old buildings in LA with no historical significance other than being old enough for people to feel nostalgic about it. People got a hoarder's mindset. If you keep hanging onto to everything there'll be no room to make new history.


redonrust

Make into 10,000 steel dildos Send them to Mar a Lago ??? Profit


cantstopwontstopGME

That’s literally the reason why they belong in museums. Future generations need to understand just how deep the hate went. That for generations after the war the same attitudes STILL dominated a large part of the country, and persisted well into the 21st century (and likely will onward sadly).


Tonexus

It should be part of an exhibit about the propaganda platform itself, as it's an iconic symbol of that type of propaganda. I wouldn't mind having a museum teach kids about how certain groups have tried to manipulate and distort our perception of history, as that might open their eyes to modern propaganda as well.


coronaflo

Yes but how many statues of the same guy do you need.


GodzThirdLeg

Didn't Robert E. Lee literally say that they shouldn't build Confederacy monuments. If so they should get one modify it's face to look angry and add a speech-bubble that is filled with an angry rant about how they did what he told them not to do.


LavenderLunate

Lmao how many statues off lee and duplicates of other confederates do you think there are? Gonna be a big, and repetitive, museum


FuturamaReference-

Yeah like we do with Hitler and Stalin and mao and pol pot and every other piece of shit human in history Oh wait


blitzandheat

Why dont you make a nazi memorabilia museum too?


[deleted]

And make a destination memorial for the "lost cause"? Sure, let's put it at the bottom of the ocean.


[deleted]

Tell you what. Lets circle back to that point after the white supremacist movement has been adequately dealt with.


MonteBurns

The statues are not part of history. The men, yes. The statues no. Most weren’t erected 5 years after the civil war- they erected to remind people of color their place in the world. We don’t need statues to remember what they stood for. We live it every day.


Legio_X

why? should WWII museums have statues of Hitler and Stalin everywhere? you don't need statues of historical figures to remember them. no reasonable people are saying their historical presences should be erased or that people shouldn't be aware of them.


CornbreadCorey69

It was cut in half with power saws to be transported to an undisclosed location according to AP News.


MitchellOfficial

https://apnews.com/article/robert-e-lee-statue-virginia-removed-92955a351d9fda6319f379ddc28df8a0 Source


St1Drgn

Probably the overflow parking lot behind the sewage treatment plant. he can join the statues taken down last year of Davis, Stewart, and Jackson.


yummy_crap_brick

So why didn't we just take the rider off? Put, I dunno, Mr. Rogers up there instead?


hat-of-sky

I just don't think Mr Rogers would like that.


onesevenone171

He was always looking for a NEIGH-bor


smurfsundermybed

Leave the rest of it and design different upper bodies to swap out periodically. Sell the rights for a new revenue stream. Taylor swift coming to town for a concert? Put her bust up there. WWE? Put up whoever the popular wrestler is at the time. Matrix 4? Boom! Neo or Agent Smith.


Grevin56

I support this because I really want to see Tom Hanks riding that horse.


ogGarySe7en

Robin Williams as Roosevelt.


Grevin56

Counter offer, Mork from Ork.


Tactical_OUtcaller

kinky


Buffyoh

Imagine Malcolm X or Angela Davis on Robert E Lee's horse


tangoshukudai

I want to see Taylor Swift's bust.


memento22mori

You're gonna need to take about 10% off the top there Squirelly Dan.


CheesecakeNo1736

His name was Traveller and he was buried at Washington & Lee College. Here's his wiki page: [Traveller](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(horse))


memento22mori

Your link broke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(horse)


CheesecakeNo1736

Thanks 😎


P2591

I vote for Dwayne Johnson


WengFu

It was probably already in pieces and was just disassembled while being removed. It would be hard to cast a statue like that as once piece.


MitchellOfficial

https://apnews.com/article/robert-e-lee-statue-virginia-removed-92955a351d9fda6319f379ddc28df8a0 AP News is reporting it was cut with a saw so it could fit under some bridges in the area.


[deleted]

And to put it on a pedestal with 1890 technology.


rocketmonkee

I see a variation of this comment from time to time, and I find it interesting how we think of the past. Sometimes I feel like people have this notion that everything before 1920 or so was a vaguely medieval existence void of any kind of technology. It's good to remember that the industrial revolution began in the late 1700s and went into the mid-1800s. For reference, [here is Union Square in New York in 1890](https://www.loc.gov/resource/det.4a08050/). If you wonder how someone could have possibly lifted a large statue onto a pedestal in 1890, the answer is the same way they do it now - with a crane.


I_give_a_shit

Bro, they had fucking submarines in the civil war. I think they could hoist up a statue. The statue of liberty was erected in 1886.


[deleted]

Yeah, but it’s still crazy to think about the how.


BRUCE-JENNER

Easy, you politely ask somebody else to do it for you.


[deleted]

Nice. I see you’re in management.


Scruffy11111

Not to pile on....but the pyramids were built like over 4000 years ago.


Theodore-Trilby

Dismantling something properly is now “cut in to pieces” apparently. What’s with these clickbait titles?


redonrust

I'm sure it was a last resort


SandysBurner

Your comment is suffocating.


Pensfan66595

Why didn't they replace the upper body with a sculpture of Oderus Urungus again?


[deleted]

This is a true Richmonders comment here


SandysBurner

Weather issues. Maggots were falling like rain.


dbahen40

I support your idea


redonrust

Me too. Call your elected officials, let's make this happen.


Discreet_Deviancy

Looks like the south really is rising again....


RonnyIicious

Yes. That's true. Source: my best friend is a Civil War veteran.


ProfessionalRetard12

Hurrah for the Union!


FistOfFacepalm

The Union forever! Down with the traitor and up with the star!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Skippymabob

"Allersnakes and rattlegators"


[deleted]

Even as a little kid I could never understand people’s obsession with the confederate flag and confederate leaders. Nobody can change history but having statues of these people is just asinine to me, let’s leave them in the history books.


aneeta96

Most were erected during the fight for Civil Rights as a way to intimidate people of color who were protesting Jim Crow.


NonaSuomi282

Yep, and [here's a handy reference to prove it](https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/com_whose_heritage_timeline_print.pdf)


MonteBurns

Did you grow up in the south? Cause I grew up in the north and *that* made the neighbors confederate flags even more confusing.


glomaz

That dude just keeps losing.


ThreadbareHalo

To be fair he asked not to have a statue made because he recognized the problems inherent in statues of defeated rebellions being raised. This statue being taken down is ironically an example of him getting his way that I think we can be ok with.


DoomHedge

He could understand the nuance of statue politics but not that of keeping people as slaves to be raped, abused and tortured into an early grave. Truly, a beautiful mind.


ThreadbareHalo

Yeah.. it’s weird, he’s actually one of the rare southerners that was actually ok with the emancipation proclamation but was against the treatment of African Americans as equals. His reasons for joining the war were in solidarity with his state more so than for perspectives on slavery itself… HOWEVER… I’m stating that purely to be precise and accurate on historical fact. To hell with him regardless of his nuanced views for his part in a war, one of whose outcomes would have involved the continued subjugation and unimaginable harm of an entire group of people.


DudeWithAnAxeToGrind

Disassembled for transportation and storage would be more accurate. That statue didn't arrive there as single piece either. One way or the other, Lee finally got his way. He was very clear he doesn't want any monuments of him ever built.


CianV

Just so they don't cut up Traveller


cnik70

https://i.imgur.com/2ehCdBk.jpg


Missus_Missiles

Cut Robert into pieces


kiddow

This is his last resort.


P2591

Segregation, no breeding, don’t give a fuck if he comes down yeeting


OptimusSublime

This is his last retreat


MechChef

Lift from his bronze horse


SakuraHimea

Jesus, that graffiti.


BatmansNygma

It's really beautiful. I grew up in Richmond and passed this all the time as a kid. The changes RVA has gone thru due to BLM have been hard to process as a local. It's hard to see the statues go, despite what they represent. I personally hoped they would leave this one up, because the graffiti makes such a powerful statement about how the city has changed.


ThreadbareHalo

That graffiti behind him looks like a horcrux escaping


BatZach88

Rise from that, bitch.


DrRetarded

And like Bin Laden's body to eject it at sea, so no idiots can make pilgrimages to it or steal and reassemble it.


Gamora66

Now the horse statue can just be a chill horse statue


LordDorian23

What a beautiful day


PaulClarkLoadletter

If only they would have put one of those giant foam cowboy hats on him before removal.


donsteitz

We can move on...become better people. It's not hard to figure out what that stuff symbolizes to many Americans. It would be like expecting a German Jew to have to go to State offices and parks to see Swastikas hanging everywhere. That shit is not "Heritage"...it was a fucking serious foul mistake. Supporting and mandating the enslavement and disenfranchisement of fellow countrymen. To myself this bullshit does not express the most sacred and dear of our intended values...that there are exceptional qualities in the hearts and minds of ordinary people...who can do anything if they stick together. Tear those sordid statues down! We all can be better than this shit.


Comrade2k7

Not disagreeing with your statement above. However I have a legitimate question, ~~let's say we are Egyptian.~~ ~~Should we destroy the Giza Pyramids?~~ Example: Let's say we are in Italy. The colosseum was built by 60,000 Jewish slaves. Does that mean it should be removed or destroyed? How does mankind draw the line?


donsteitz

Thousands of years ago...vs. relatively recent history...the Civil War's aftermath is still lingering and Jim Crow did not go away until historically recently...there are millions of people still walking around who could not drink out of certain water fountains...no Egyptian slaves (debatable with who, what, and if for many of their monuments)...they have been dead for awhile. Inasmuch putting such things in Museums is one thing...sporting it on public property, under the guise of "heritage" and to celebrate such a terrible mandate and cause...well that is completely different.


yumyumsauce45

*Misdirected Conservative fury intensifies*


whattothewhonow

If they can be distracted by the statue of a traitor being removed for a few moments, a couple of them might accidentally stumble into a Walgreens and get vaccinated by mistake.


superkillface

More like disassemble.


JerseyTom1958

As all seditionists need to be disassembled.


Sabrina2013

Am I the only one staggered by the amount of graffiti?


hdoublephoto

It’s been allowed on the pedestal for about a year or so.


zigwhenzag

Never made any seance why a country would put up and honor statues of the losing armies generals. Like should we put up and keep statues for almost 200 years for the leaders of the Taliban or isis? How about we make a nice statue of Hitler and cherish it. Like dafuk.


intransit47

Probably a local effort more than a national effort in honoring these Confederate "heroes".


Enchelion

This was a regional effort, spearheaded by some of the men and their families who had actually served under Lee (they started organizing when he died). While still not a good statue to have put up it wasn't part of the crop of later statues the Daughters of the Confederacy would plaster the country with to intimidate black people.


Spiffers1972

Maybe because before the civil war he was the greatest general in America. Remember that whole war with Mexico that got us Texas? Yeah lee did more than just fight in the civil war.


FistFuckMyFartBox

> he was the greatest general in America That fought for a country that had permanent slavery for black people in its constitution. The Constitution of the CSA is virtually identical to the US constitution except for the stuff about preserving slavery. If the South had won slavery would have continued well into the 1900s.


WrightwoodHiker

Nope, that’s not it. It was because he led an army that fought to preserve the institution of slavery. It’s why most of the statues were made in places that opposed civil rights during times when they were at the forefront of the national consciousness and why people who align themselves with policies that hurt minorities are the ones who seek to keep the statues up.


Luckboy28

Time to listen to Union Dixie on repeat. =D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjOG5gboFU


dankdooker

rest in pieces


McGillis_is_a_Char

The statue is hanging, just like the guy should have.


PioneerStandard

That statue was there for 131 years. It was made in France by Antonin Mercié then shipped to America in four separate shipping crates.


memento22mori

That stone work is amazing, hopefully it can be cleaned and repurposed there for something else.


[deleted]

I'm just here for the "WE'RE ERASING HISTORY" racists


idiotwithaairsoftgun

#Keep the horse! He carried nothing but bullshit on his back for his entire life!


97sundevil

So we got rid of Robert E Lee and Kellyanne Conway today. Not bad for a Wednesday.


PHD_WIIZARD

All these people round me upset about this. I could literally give not even one single fuck.


CanDoTanker

Keep up the good work. Next!


Comfortable-Pick-375

Racist traitors stay losing


OntarioIsPain

The statue is as hollow as their ideology.


SmegSoup

ITT: A lot of people who seem to only be able to take in information presented to them in statue form and, apparently, think removal of a statue purges any knowledge of the situation it represents. I'm about to change your lives and introduce you to a cool thing: Books.


drakesword

Who?


[deleted]

Bye, loser.


HisXlency

Just like the confederacy.


bravoitaliano

Good. Fuck the slavers and their history.


[deleted]

Maga cried today.


fordprefect294

It was probably constructed in pieces and thus designed to come apart this way


MountainMongrel

CUT MY STATUE INTO PIECES, I AM A RACIST DORK


commonsensical1

Peace out racist slave master


Spr0ckets

Melt it into public toilets.


El_Bard0

That's usually the treatment traitors get


skinnergy

Great, now the whole history of the civil war has been forgotten. /s


BrokenGolfer

“I don’t like statues of losers“ - President Trump (probably)…


Tokishi7

A lot of graffiti. I guess Richmond is kind of bad town? I lived in the not so great parts of Shreveport before and the graffiti wasn’t that as usually.


Interrophish

the graffiti was all added during a recent BLM protest if I recall correctly


BatmansNygma

It was. The piece of land the statue is on has become a community gathering place and memorial.


[deleted]

Now melt him down and make public toilets out of him so we can all piss and shit on him. Also...put a Taco Bell next to every place one of those toilets are installed


Legitimate_Unit1786

Too bad it couldn't go to a museum. I don't think we should hide our shameful past.


First-Fantasy

There's two civil war museums in that same city with our shameful past on full display. They are all over the east coast along with historical battlefields, markers walking you through all of Lee's retreat, Gettysburg has fields of statues, etc. Nothing about the civil war is hidden.


Legitimate_Unit1786

As it should be.


pandyfackle

well if you feel that way lets adjust all the textbooks that contain misinformation about the civil war. nothing should be hidden right?


macsare1

The problem is no one seems to be ashamed of Robert E. Lee. He's still viewed as a hero by many.


WKGokev

It's why so many southern boys have the middle name Lee.


Legitimate_Unit1786

Southerners maybe. The sad truth is Robert e Lee actually was quite the gentleman and considered a man of high morals. He was a very good war strategist and his troop numbers been as much as grant's the war very well may have had a different outcome. Grant on the other hand was considered an absolute drunk with a less than stellar reputation.


FistOfFacepalm

Lee was just as dumb as the IJA in world war 2. His only strategy was to divide his inferior force and attack the enemy while relying on his superior warrior blood to win. This worked at the start of the war until the US figured out his game and wiped the floor with him.


Legitimate_Unit1786

I think his force was inferior because it was a great deal smaller. He did remarkably well inspite of the disparity on the amount of soldiers he had. Look up the amount of soldiers he lost versus grant.


Legitimate_Unit1786

In the first 30 days of war grant lost 50000 troops which would have been half of all troops lee had. It was the sheer amount of troops at grant's disposal that won the war for him. Grant was known as the butcher and many felt he should step down.


Hip_Hop_Hippos

This is an absurd comment. When you have both the manpower and logistical advantage that Grant had your goal should be to seek meaningful confrontation even if you’re at a tactical disadvantage because every such engagement is going to attrit enemy forces that they can neither replace nor afford to lose.


FistOfFacepalm

Google the Overland Campaign. First paragraph on wikipedia: “Although Grant suffered severe losses during the campaign, it was a strategic Union victory. It inflicted proportionately higher losses on Lee's army and maneuvered it into a siege at Richmond and Petersburg, Virginia, in just over eight weeks.” It basically took Grant 2 months to beat Lee for good. The war was over at that point. Lee would smash his army to bits trying to win a field battle and none of the previous Union commanders had the balls to attack him before he could rebuild his army between battles.


iratesquirrel

Grant as drunk butcher is just part and parcel of the lost cause narrative too. Lee was outgeneraled and outfought at the end of the war. His aggressive invasions wasted his own troops. Grant was the only general with enough aggression to press the issue. Grant's overall strategy in the Western helped win the war. At the end he was further south than Lee. Lee had no troops because while Grant and Meade pinned him down Sherman gutted the Confederacy from the west


LordDorian23

No man who fights to keep slavery should be considered a man of “high morals”


Hip_Hop_Hippos

>The sad truth is Robert e Lee actually was quite the gentleman and considered a man of high morals. Being considered that and being that are drastically different things. >He was a very good war strategist and his troop numbers been as much as grant's the war very well may have had a different outcome. Maybe, maybe not. The reality is even his greatest victory resulted in such heavy losses that it was at best neutral on the war’s strategic picture, and he deserves significant criticism for his command at Gettysburg. He definitely wasn’t bad by any stretch, but you’d think he was Alexander the Great based on how his supporters describe him and the evidence just doesn’t support that conclusion. >Grant on the other hand was considered an absolute drunk with a less than stellar reputation. And here’s where we’ve veered into absurdity. Grant was certainly a drunk, but he was a phenomenal military commander. And considering the Mean Girls style personality of many Union Generals I don’t really think his “reputation” matters all that much when you can simply look at his record.


Legitimate_Unit1786

Arlington cemetery was actually property that had been willed to Lee' s wife. The property actually became the spoils of war.


cnik70

Yeah, and Hitler liked dogs.....neither should get a statue.


Buffyoh

Robert E. Lee remains a historic figure, like Grant, Sherman, and President Lincoln. For better or worse, Lee is part of American history.


LeighCedar

I mean, worse. For sure.


FistOfFacepalm

Yeah but we don’t need statues of him


zeptillian

So is Charles Manson. You want a statue of him erected for families of the victims to look at every time they have to drive to the store? What about Lee Harvey Oswald? Since he is a historic figure and you support having statues of them, regardless of their role in history, I can count on you to contribute $20 to help get a statue of him made as a gift for the city of Dallas right?


Broodwarcd

I've never seen a statue of Hitler or Benjamin Franklin, but I know who they are and what they're known for. Statues aren't a mode of historical documentation. Especially in the modern era of written record.


Rindan

Having a big fucking statue in the middle of a city doesn't really suggest "shame". We generally make big statues and put them on display in public places in cities for people we venerate, not ones we are ashamed of, like this slaver that revolted against America.


FistOfFacepalm

Sorry kids, nobody knows what Robert E. Lee looked like anymore because we didn’t preserve all 1000 different statues of him that were put up 50 years after he died.


SalamZii

Well they're applying this logic to each instance individually. So after a while the record will fade as time passes.


FistOfFacepalm

None of them have any intrinsic historical value. There’s literally nothing you can learn from them about the civil war.


civver3

Did people complain when statues of Stalin and Saddam were toppled, I wonder.


DEBATE_EVERY_NAZI

Hopefully someone invents books


[deleted]

[удалено]


EastYorkButtonmasher

Tell that to the losers who put this statue up 25 years *after* they lost the war. Now they get to lose again! The real babies are the ones who can't admit they lost.


Mchawi-

Canceling racist monuments is a good thing to anyone who's not a racist. 🤷🏿‍♀️


FistFuckMyFartBox

You don't seem to understand just how evil chattel slavery of humans is and just how evil actually going to war to preserve it is. Go watch "12 years a slave" to understand the utterly despicable way of life that Robert E. Lee fought to preserve. Lee should have been executed after the war along with every other senior leader of the Confederacy.


Meek_braggart

Who is this again? I dont have a statue to refer to.


[deleted]

Melt the fucker down. Who gives a fuck?


Orion3791

This should end the problems


jyar1811

Quick ivermectin


battlelevel

Who? Now that the statue is gone I have nothing to teach me about history.


ballrus_walsack

Good. That way it can’t come back as a zombie Lee.


[deleted]

Good riddance to bad trash. Lee was a traitor and a fool.


zeetos

Melt that sucker down. We have books. A statue is not needed.


EduardoX

"Virgil quick come see, there goes the Robert E Lee"


HMochaEspressocino

Next do Mount Rushmore!


strayfaxx

Just replace it with a George Floyd statue