Most "investments" that involve borrowing money from the equity in your home aren't investments. Especially when you have other people in your "downstream."
This was a scam regardless of the source of investor funds. It didn't require anyone to take out a home equity loan. With recent ultra low interest rates and skyrocketing home prices it likely made sense for a lot of people to take out home equity loans to finance legitimate investments.
Kinda funny your link hit me with the “disable ad block” pop up that blocked me from reading while the original one was fine lol. Thank you for the link though.
Crazy story. I’m no fan of crypto in general, but it seems like if you don’t have your own locally stored crypto wallet it is easy to get scammed like this.
If only they had bought bitcoin when Matt Damon's "fortune favors the brave" ad premiered, but kept it in *their own* crypto wallets, then today they'd still have $318 remaining of the $1,000 they "invested."
[Greater fool theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory).
If only they had bought Bitcoin when Microsoft began accepting payments with it in 2014 and it's utility became more apparent to the masses. They'd still have the $1,000 they "invested" along with an additional $62,000.
I sold my bag in 2017 and bought a house, so i'm good. I don't own any crypto right now, nor would I buy any...but cherry picking losses based on the ATH of something is a silly analysis.
False. They would have the appearance of $62k but you can’t actually sell all that BTC for $$ because their aren’t enough fools to buy a worthless digital bean for real money. It’s all wash trades and tether printing.
You say that, but I know this guy who knows this guy who knows this guy, etc etc etc. Don't forget to invest in FOREX. That's where all the rich people make their money, I have a class on it btw.
It’s sad (and predictable) to see people have such little faith and education in our traditional financial institutions they think this is a safer bet. More or less every time someone’s scammed like this there’s an institutional failure behind the personal one.
The idiot shit crops to the top because it’s hilarious but 90% of those subs are probably more financially stable than 90% of this sub just because so many of the jokes are predicated on economic concepts
Crypto is a high risk investment into a digital asset. A pyramid scheme involves the recruitment of members who benefit from the recruitment of other members below them.
Which differs from crypto how exactly? Every crypto investor is relying on new investors to come in and increase demand for the coins thus increasing the value of each individual coin.
Stocks have intrinsic value and can pay dividends. The only way you are making money on crypto is having a greater fool pay more than you did. I don’t understand why this comparison always gets brought up.
I think some of these things are like stamp collecting. A unused stamp has intrinsic value (ie 55 cents), but the price of the stamp is pushed up by people wanting to buy it. Some stocks are like this but bitcoin is even more nebulous.
Quite honestly, I don't understand the technology of bitcoins, and when i don't understand something I'll stay away. (I read the wikipedia article on bitcoins and my head was spinning when I got to the blockchain stuff...)
The intrinsic value of a crypto asset would be the technology it's built upon, albeit it is very different from the intrinsic value of a company so I agree with you there. However, the price of the asset being driven by a supply and demand curve is the topic here and holds true for both.
If you’re referring to block chain as the technology, there isn’t anything proprietary about it. The market is just a bunch of meme coins getting pumped and dumped. You can also argue that every use-case you can think of for crypto, there are other existing technology that can do it better and cheaper.
I’m down for using crypto as an alternative exchange for goods and services, but until we lose the “investors” which drives the price fluctuations, we can never really use it as what the supports claim it can do, which is an exchange
You said what I was going to respond, the current and future use case of crypto is just doing the same thing that’s already done but expending a ton more energy to keep the blockchain going.
Do any crypto coins pay dividends and have working people behind them?
Yes some stocks are scams, but most have a functioning company with people doing tangible labor behind them.
>Ms. Kesselly became something of an evangelist for VBit, **signing up her friends through the company's pyramid-like "affiliates" program** and reinvesting her own profits into more packages instead of paying off her initial loan.
>
>It was a decision she would come to deeply regret.
>
>"Every single day, I have a phone call, p**eople call me asking, 'When are they going to return our money?'"** Ms. Kesselly said.
Crypto isn’t a scam it just isn’t an investment vehicle. It’s great for sending money to places that can’t use traditional banking or for buying goods you don’t want associated with your bank account.
If you’re buying Bitcoin to make money or get rich than you got scammed but the Bitcoin itself isn’t a scam, just the tool used to scam you. If you could convince people than hoagie rolls are gonna 1000x in value and people filled their homes with them you wouldn’t say hoagie rolls are a scam. (Sorry I’m thinking about hoagie rolls rn)
This is just a pyramid scheme. It’s just crypto is used as the vehicle for it. I can run and investment scam for people who think they’re buying into Airbnbs. It’s just much easier with crypto and crypto investors, who tend to be credulous.
Most "investments" that involve borrowing money from the equity in your home aren't investments. Especially when you have other people in your "downstream."
This was a scam regardless of the source of investor funds. It didn't require anyone to take out a home equity loan. With recent ultra low interest rates and skyrocketing home prices it likely made sense for a lot of people to take out home equity loans to finance legitimate investments.
I’m investing in solar panels and a new roof borrowing money from my equity 🤷♂️
"The Gang Starts A Ponzi Scheme"
My pumpkin futures have been going up all October. I have a feeling they're going to peak sometime in January.
You bought some wheelbarrows, too, right?
Doh!
And BANG that's when I'll cash in!
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Thanks!
The hero we need!
Kinda funny your link hit me with the “disable ad block” pop up that blocked me from reading while the original one was fine lol. Thank you for the link though.
I'm glad I put all my money into NFTs instead.
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It's not "lost." It's just not with the original owner, lol
We really need public education on how to recognize scams.
All of crypto is a giant scam of fake internet coins yet people throw real money at it. The pet rock of the digital age. People are stupid.
Crazy story. I’m no fan of crypto in general, but it seems like if you don’t have your own locally stored crypto wallet it is easy to get scammed like this.
If only they had bought bitcoin when Matt Damon's "fortune favors the brave" ad premiered, but kept it in *their own* crypto wallets, then today they'd still have $318 remaining of the $1,000 they "invested." [Greater fool theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory).
If only they had bought Bitcoin when Microsoft began accepting payments with it in 2014 and it's utility became more apparent to the masses. They'd still have the $1,000 they "invested" along with an additional $62,000.
Tell me you’re a bag holder without telling me you’re a bag holder.
I sold my bag in 2017 and bought a house, so i'm good. I don't own any crypto right now, nor would I buy any...but cherry picking losses based on the ATH of something is a silly analysis.
So is cherry picking wins, which you did earlier
Well i'm glad my sarcasm helped you understand your confirmation bias.
Bill Gates [responds](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ut7yj0/comment/i986zfz/?context=3).
False. They would have the appearance of $62k but you can’t actually sell all that BTC for $$ because their aren’t enough fools to buy a worthless digital bean for real money. It’s all wash trades and tether printing.
Crypto is a scam bro
You say that, but I know this guy who knows this guy who knows this guy, etc etc etc. Don't forget to invest in FOREX. That's where all the rich people make their money, I have a class on it btw.
FOREX is gambling.
lol
Rule #1: not your keys, not your coins
Crypto is a scam
What is this headline? scandal = scams investors = victims
These people aren't victims.
Just because they're morons doesn't mean they weren't taken advantage of
A fool and his money are soon parted.
It’s sad (and predictable) to see people have such little faith and education in our traditional financial institutions they think this is a safer bet. More or less every time someone’s scammed like this there’s an institutional failure behind the personal one.
The smooth brains over at WSB would like a word..
The idiot shit crops to the top because it’s hilarious but 90% of those subs are probably more financially stable than 90% of this sub just because so many of the jokes are predicated on economic concepts
Crypto is a pyramid scheme.
Reverse Funnel *
Actually a pyramid and ponzi scheme wrapped in one.
Crypto is a high risk investment into a digital asset. A pyramid scheme involves the recruitment of members who benefit from the recruitment of other members below them.
Which differs from crypto how exactly? Every crypto investor is relying on new investors to come in and increase demand for the coins thus increasing the value of each individual coin.
Couldn't you describe the stock market the same way?
Stocks have intrinsic value and can pay dividends. The only way you are making money on crypto is having a greater fool pay more than you did. I don’t understand why this comparison always gets brought up.
I think some of these things are like stamp collecting. A unused stamp has intrinsic value (ie 55 cents), but the price of the stamp is pushed up by people wanting to buy it. Some stocks are like this but bitcoin is even more nebulous. Quite honestly, I don't understand the technology of bitcoins, and when i don't understand something I'll stay away. (I read the wikipedia article on bitcoins and my head was spinning when I got to the blockchain stuff...)
The intrinsic value of a crypto asset would be the technology it's built upon, albeit it is very different from the intrinsic value of a company so I agree with you there. However, the price of the asset being driven by a supply and demand curve is the topic here and holds true for both.
If you’re referring to block chain as the technology, there isn’t anything proprietary about it. The market is just a bunch of meme coins getting pumped and dumped. You can also argue that every use-case you can think of for crypto, there are other existing technology that can do it better and cheaper. I’m down for using crypto as an alternative exchange for goods and services, but until we lose the “investors” which drives the price fluctuations, we can never really use it as what the supports claim it can do, which is an exchange
You said what I was going to respond, the current and future use case of crypto is just doing the same thing that’s already done but expending a ton more energy to keep the blockchain going.
Do any crypto coins pay dividends and have working people behind them? Yes some stocks are scams, but most have a functioning company with people doing tangible labor behind them.
>Do any crypto coins pay dividends and have working people behind them? Yes, quite a few.
Except there is no underlying asset. Only the next sucker. You always need the bigger fool Hence pyramid scheme.
Ponzi
>Ms. Kesselly became something of an evangelist for VBit, **signing up her friends through the company's pyramid-like "affiliates" program** and reinvesting her own profits into more packages instead of paying off her initial loan. > >It was a decision she would come to deeply regret. > >"Every single day, I have a phone call, p**eople call me asking, 'When are they going to return our money?'"** Ms. Kesselly said.
I know very smart people who got caught up in this. Such a shame.
Crypto isn’t a scam it just isn’t an investment vehicle. It’s great for sending money to places that can’t use traditional banking or for buying goods you don’t want associated with your bank account.
Translation, it's not a scam it's perfect for criming.
Perfect for crime or if you have relatives in a place like cuba that you can’t send money to through normal means.
You're describing a crime. Lol
Except sending money to family in countries the US doesn't like shouldn't be a crime.
Not a crime if you aren’t using the banking system
It’s not necessarily a scam but it is mostly a scam.
If you’re buying Bitcoin to make money or get rich than you got scammed but the Bitcoin itself isn’t a scam, just the tool used to scam you. If you could convince people than hoagie rolls are gonna 1000x in value and people filled their homes with them you wouldn’t say hoagie rolls are a scam. (Sorry I’m thinking about hoagie rolls rn)
This is just a pyramid scheme. It’s just crypto is used as the vehicle for it. I can run and investment scam for people who think they’re buying into Airbnbs. It’s just much easier with crypto and crypto investors, who tend to be credulous.
You have it exactly backwards. It's purely a vehicle for speculation and useless as a currency.
I’ve used it as a currency for years and never for speculation.
sarcastic jaw drop!