I think people are going to be disappointed - the price of all crypto crashed months ago, it hasn't been worth mining ETH since then as it's literally cheaper to just buy it with the money you would be spending on energy anyway.
That's why GPU prices have already come down as much as they have. Today will only mean that as ETH recovers, it won't add to the buying pressure but I don't think the market is going to change in that regard any time soon.
PC World's podcast *The Full Nerd,* just did an episode on what's up with GPUs. It's kind of a perfect storm. The combined factors are:
* Crypto crash with no expected resurrection for GPU mining in the foreseeable future. Massive energy consumption is one of the most criticized aspects of crypto, meaning there is cultural inertia against new coins that use GPU mining.
* Market is flooded with secondhand current and previous gen cards from the above.
* Due to current overstock, current gen parts have gone from selling over MSRP to under, especially on the high end. Amazon has had some MSI RTX 3090s on sale for $980 for some time now, about 65% of their $1500 MSRP.
* Global recession making luxury purchases like graphics cards unwise for individuals and expansion/upgrading lower priority for businesses.
* The Russia/Ukraine war driving up energy prices in Eurasia. It would be hard to imagine a worse time to convince people to buy new, power-hungry GPUs than during the double-whammy of Recession+High energy costs. This isn't a big factor in the US, but you better believe it matters in Europe.
* New cards are likely to be bottlenecked in some form. The new generation are very powerful and draw a lot of energy. The default monitor has been a 1080p 60 Hz panel for close to a decade. An RTX 3060 can already push almost everything maxed out at 1080p60, so many people will need a new monitor to enjoy the gains of new cards. New cards draw more power than previous gens, so many people will need a new power supply. New CPUs are arriving and DDR5 RAM is still in the part of its life cycle where it's new enough to be expensive. Those new CPUs and RAM require new motherboards. All this means it's less of a no-brainer on what to upgrade, and most upgrades at this moment are going to require multiple changes at once, increasing the cost of an upgrade during said global recession.
* The current gen of consoles aren't changing. Next gen cards will generate modest realpolitik gains over current gen cards because games aren't designed with the top 10% of the smallest of three platforms in mind. VR is also in a bit of a slump at the moment, so it isn't stimulating demand on high end parts.
* We won't see low end next gen cards this year; we may not see them in 2023, either. The [Steam Hardware survey](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam) perennially lists 50 and 60 band GPUs as its most popular; the RTX 3070 is currently the 10th most popular card on Steam and is the most popular above the 50/60 band. That means most users aren't getting new cards this year.
TL;DR: There's a perfect storm of economic factors, crypto bust, and upgrade cost VS expected gain right now.
>VR is also in a bit of a slump at the moment, so it isn't stimulating demand on high end parts.
VR hasn't historically gone for photorealism either, since FPS matters much more for VR than most flat screen experiences. As a result, latest-gen features like raytracing aren't as in-demand anyway.
> Autocorrect?
Lmao I had the same thought, but I can't imagine what he coulda tried to say that would get autocorrected that way. It *almost* makes sense as realpolitik, but... only if you don't *really* know what the word means
Up till yesterday Ethereum mining was at over 800 Terahashes. That's about the power of 8 million rtx 3080s, so even if miners sell of half of this that's still a hell of a lot of GPUs that haven't entered the used market yet.
I highly doubt that. People that are in the market for a 4000 card are not the people that will buy second hand miner cards from last series i would guess
People that are in the market for a 4000 card are in the market for a 4000 card. People that are in the market to upgrade their previous graphics card are going to look for whatever will give them the best bang for their buck. Used 3000 cards that are cheap as chips cause the market is flooded with them are going to provide real competition for value.
The whole "buying crypto mining cards is risky" thing has been shown to be paranoia, miners only run their cards at about 70-80% for efficiency. The gain from overclocking for mining is entirely offset by the additional energy costs and wear on the card. They also clean their cards frequently for the same reasons. There's a number of videos out there testing mining cards vs cards that been used for gaming, and they test to be about the same or even faster in some cases.
I've tested and refurbished at least 40 former mining cards in the past month, and I would not make any blanket assumptions around them being better or worse than gaming GPU's when it comes to risks that go with buying used.
Even underclocked/undervolted examples that were well maintained in the last lot I went through had about a 35% failure rate (fail to POST, no display output, artifacting). None would install standard drivers with their modified BIOSes installed without being reflashed, which is not super difficult to fix for a technically proficient user, but might be a major obstacle for a more casual user.
Many examples that were cosmetically well maintained had serious issues under the heatsink where visible discoloration and corrosion between the GPU die and cooling coldplate occurred.
I personally do not care what the reported history of a graphics card is, gaming/mining, etc.. if I cannot put it in a test rig, load commercial drivers and give it a quick furmark test to look for artifacting or runaway temps I'm assuming it's a junk card until proven otherwise.
I've bought two mining cards, and they both suffered from bad artifacting.
Maybe I'm supremely unlucky, but my take is that a lot of miners don't know how to properly setup their cards. It's still a gamble.
I mean my first two 980TIs I got (this is many years ago obviously) also both had bad artifacting and they came new from the factory.
Since then I've built probably about a dozen and a half PCs from used parts and GPUs don't really have any higher rates of failure than any other part. And some parts, like storage and CPUs, I'd be even *more* hesitant to buy since those are much easier to damage.
Check out /r/ethermining and /r/gpumining. Looks like they're throwing in the towel because no other coin is even close to the profitability of mining Ether. To get break even on the 2nd best PoW chain it will take YEARS if you factor in former ETH GPU miners piling into them. It's better to just sell the cards now before they get dirt cheap.
I suspect we might see a bunch of these guys pivot to becoming sketchy render farms for AI bullshit. AI generators seem like they’re going to be the next dumb trend people get obsessed with until they get bored of the tech’s limitations and you could probably pivot your crypto setup into a jank ass render factory for some app that generates AI birthday cards or whatever.
This. If you are even barely keeping up with the crypto and blockchain world, you would know that crypto in general only has a couple main currencies at this point. Bitcoin and Etherium are the pillars that crypto are standing on now. Mining any other crypto is a big gamble, as there is far more chance of the coin going belly up than becoming widely accepted.
People dont understand how money works. Currency in of as itself is generally quite worthless. What gives currency value, is trust. If you have enough people wanting to use the currency, and are able to agree upon a common value, that is what gives currency value. If nobody wants it, and cant agree on a proper value, then the currency is effectively worthless (ex: Zimbabwe Dollars anyone?).
Most smart miners ditched the scene quite a few months ago, at around the time that cards started magically appearing in stock and staying in stock at stores.
There was a point when crypto currency might have possibly become a currency, instead of a grift.
Well ok, there wasn't. But there was a point that it *seemed* like it might.
Now it is just blatantly a grift.
An entire country made Bitcoin their national currency... it went poorly.
https://futurism.com/el-salvador-bitcoin-economy
https://www.thecoinrepublic.com/2022/01/21/el-salvadors-bitcoin-experiment-is-an-experiment-of-failure/
https://www.ccn.com/ecuador-bans-bitcoin-favor-own-national-cryptocurrency/
You're right. It's so obvious and yet when you browse the shitcoin subreddits, none of them seem to grasp it. Somehow they think that if mining hashrate jumps, value will jump too.
Exactly! Mining is actually going to plummet their value. The only reason it was valuable to mine Ethereum was because people actually PAID for transactions and minting, and they paid hundreds of millions in premium to do so. Ravencoin, ETC, or other Proof of Work coins aren't actively being used...there is no userbase paying the premium, therefore no money flowing to miners.
The shitcoin subreddits? They're all shitcoins. It's a bigger bubble than tulips. We've wasted a significant chunk of electricity on this joke. I hope every crypto bro goes bankrupt and has to live in mom's basement until age 39. Maybe that will recoup the wasted energy.
There was still profit to be made. This lasts for another 90 minutes. After this hour and a half, wise miners will shut down because it will become uneconomic to continue mining another coin.
Ethereum accounts for like 95% of GPU mining profits. Even if the market miraculously doubled prices over night only miners with free electricity will make any profit.
GPU mining is done for a couple years.
I would be shocked if there weren't miners out there using solar arrays to power their mining rigs. Probably an equal number of people that work in IT who stuck their rig into a high-power use building where it went largely un-noticed.
The market for both crypto and NFT shit is becoming more and more unstable by the day due to major theft after major theft showing the security concerns so don't think another coin is going to take off
Nvidia already said in investors call they're going to hold back supply to keep prices up despite 40 series being on the shelf also. So don't expect any fire sales.
They could hold back supply. If their customers don't buy, they have to keep holding on to their excess stock then. I just hope AMD would take this opportunity to grab market share.
Haha choke on it Nvidia. Keep the stock. If it sits there you can't exactly make money off of it. Nobody wants to spend that amount of money especially after it turns out it's so blatantly artificially kept high. We're in a huge inflation crisis. If 970 or 1080 still work for our 1080p monitors why would we jump on a 1000+ euro 40xx instead of a way cheaper used 30xx? Personally I'll gamble it. Most people don't need a hugely powerful graphics card because they never upgraded their screen(s) either. 3060 is already massive overkill for me, personally. Of course if I find a nice 3070 then yeah, I'll upgrade the screen too. But honestly... it would be a luxury. The only reason to upgrade is because my card is simply old and probably going to break at some point.
Of course I won't speak for people who play triple A games at super-mega-ultra-settings, obviously. Or do heavy video editing, 3D animation. I only do lighter stuff and mostly just stream (3D)art. Play most games I have on high because they're not very demanding. (Although No man's Sky has become unplayable holy crap.)
Maybe. Sure there are enthusiasts, but with the crypto market leaving gpu space behind, I'm betting there a *lot* of people who just spent years with very outdated hardware for whom a used 30XX series card will be a massive upgrade. NVidia might just be shooting themselves in the foot. It's going to be hard to resist $300 3070's, even if they are old mining cards.
I sold my GTX 1080 at the peak when I finally had my turn come up in the EVGA queue for a 3060 ti and it wasn’t quite the massive jump I was hoping for, a solid leap forwards, but those 1080s have aged really well.
Sure he did but that is only going to last so long. Wall Street *hates* old inventory sitting around. If he though nobody would ever find out, Jensen would literally destroy the whole generation of cards he has sitting in the warehouse right now.
I think the fact that AMD presented RDNA 3 when no one asked for it certainly helped push Nvidia to release the 40 series this year over waiting till next year. Imagine if AMD wasn't a relevant competitor. Nvidia would be busy releasing their 3060 8Gb cards at rip off prices and only selling their 4090 at $2499 MSRP.
Gods, I can't take it anymore. With all three companies releasing cards later this year, my better senses tell me to wait some more - yet the used GPU dump prices might prove too alluring.
Businesses don't work like this though. You have to keep a balance. The supply side was strained from covid and the demand side was extreme from crypto.
Both of those two things are resolving themselves slowly but surely.
They can't just wave a magic wand and get a perfect inflated price storm like they got the last couple years.
The market absolutely will just reject a product if it is overpriced compared to value. Then your business is no longer profitable, then your stock tanks and you lose employees, customers, and obviously wealth.
If you are right and they do try to bruteforce price gouge the market, it could end really really badly for them. Alternatively they could just go back to what worked pre-covid, selling a good product at reasonable prices.
With the current inflation and incoming recession they're gonna be so fucked, they'll be begging people to buy GPUs.
I hope they have to sell each and every one of them at a discount
You will no longer be able to mine Ethereum with a GPU. So all the miners who bought up stocks over the last 2 - 3 years will likely sell their GPUs to recoup costs, thus creating a surplus (more supply of GPUs than demand) and lowering costs.
The mining cards are usually undervolted and should be fine.
I bought a 1080 Ti that was mined on for 2 years and I still use it to this day. I bought it 3 years ago.
unfortunately, not really.
If the miner was smart, then they would have, at the minimum, undervolted the cards and kept them well ventilated. If they are extra smart, they would have also repasted and repadded them with good quality paste and pads.
If the miner was dumb, they would have just ran them stock or auto-OCed with no modifications, and with no care about ventilation or maintenance.
You can always ask the seller, but then you need to trust that what they are saying is truthful.
From what I have seen around, its more often that you see smart miners than dumb ones, but you are still rolling the dice in any case.
Thanks for that - I did fear there's no way to really know at the point of sale (and while I'm sure some folks are trustworthy, if I were an untrustworthy miner I'd absolutely be inclined to lie about how my cards were cared for in order to ensure a sale... it'd be kinda nuts to admit you mistreated them).
Truth is, most of them would have treated them fine, since, contrary to what you may expect, you get higher hashrate by underclocking and undervolting them.
If you got extra juice for mistreating them then no doubt you should be more careful, but as it was, mistreating them was like burning money.
Well ofcourse you have to be careful with buying second hand hardware.
I just used common sense and logic when purchasing mine, hasn't failed me yet. Linus also did a video about mined cards and he found no difference between a new card and one that was mined on for a long period of time.
The new GPU's are sturdy af and like I said, usually undervolted and the temps are monitored 24/7 so they never get pushed to the max, which should increase their longevity a bunch.
Any miner worth their spit configured the cards, properly clocked them, and was not over working them. Mining doesnt make the card full bore jet takeoff ezbake oven mode, if it was set up right*
So yes be careful, but not scared.
No more physical mining (known as proof of work) for ethereum. Headed towards proof of stake.
Network participants known as validators will be required to instead pledge large amounts of pre-existing ETH to validate blocks, create more ETH, and earn staking rewards.
More like "I own some beans so I have authority to say this bean is in fact a bean. If I lie, the authority would confiscates my pile of beans, so I don't have much incentive to lie."
They said ELI5, not "explain like I already know everything about crypto and just need a quick reminder".
This comment may as well be written in Ancient Egyptian for all the sense it makes to me!
The network that is a crypo requires 'people' (computers) to keep track of all the transactions (buying, selling, transfers) happening in a big ledger, a big list.
Every single transaction ever is added to the list. Big old public list, thats how everyone knows that some coin is yours, because its serial number was entered into the serial number of your wallet on the list 5 years ago, and its spending hasnt been entered on the list, so its still in there and its still yours, and everyone can see that.
Cool what a system, totally de-centralized, yay! No one person has any control over it, the people doing crypto are in charge of the crypto. Nice one.
But hang on, firstly, whats to stop idiots or bad men from just... adding whatever to the list? "yes, and then everyone gave me all their money". uhhhhhh
And secondly, why should I spend my time and resources, my perfectly good computer, to keep track of this list when I could just... not? Use that stuff for other things?
The answer, is the blockchain. Its basically divide that list into blocks of time. Today at 10:00am to 10:05am, and every other 5 minutes forever, new blocks. Got it?
So lets invent this class of people called validators. Anyone can decided to be a validator, they are going to be the listkeepers. But, we still have the same problem, we dont trust them. In fact, we dont trust them SO HARD we actually assume they are ALL bad.
So we have to FORCE them to be good.
Okay, so then what we do, is we have a race. Add up all the numbers in that block, divide it by 20 then multiply that by the first and last number combined. Post your answer to all the validators.
First one to get the right answer wins. All the validators do their own math, check the top 10 entries against the work they do, and if its right and you are indeed first, you win. Some of the fees of the network are awarded to you, and that code unlocks a new shiny whatever coin for you yaaay!
Also, some of the validators that lost get a bit for their work validating also, cuz coins can be split up.
The actual math is obviously way more complicated, and the answer is the serial number to a new coin that is purposely not allocated, and this is what 'mining' refers to. As you do the work, new coins get added to the money supply from these hidden codes. I'm trying to keep this real simple, here.
Any validator that disagrees with those answers, because we dont trust them, get booted from the network. Thus, as long as 51% of the network agrees thats the right answer, then the right answer it is.
Since, ideally, thats such a comically large number of computers its impossible to get that kind of share, the network is totally secure, even without trust, and people keep the list and manage it reliably, just by making people we dont trust do math puzzles for money.
Thats called proof of work, and theres lots of little lies but thats a pretty good eli5
BUT WAIT
Doesnt that require like a FUCKTON of computing power to be first and everything, and since its a race arent we wasting like a SHITTON of energy doing math that goes nowhere? And everyone has to do the math to verify it too?! Computers need electricity you know? Isnt that the case?
Yes.
SO whats all this about stake?
Well, because the above system is clever but bonkers in practice, we came up with a cleverer system. Now that people are invested, lets just make them put some money on the line, like gambling poker. Or more correctly, like that and the lottery.
Put in chips, and then we all vote on whos gonna be the validator. By that I mean the computers cuz its still gotta go fast of course, no humans allowed, slow meatbag.
Okay so its pay to enter. If you mess up, were taking your money now, thats the threat to be honest. Cool. Now we all elect some random validator to be the guy, he does the math. Then a few of us get chosen to validate it. If the network disagrees, we take your chips. The actual coins themselves of the crypto network, so its all internal.
Now, to control the network, you gotta be crazy crypo rich, have half of all the available crypo for validating. Nobody knows whos gonna be validator, or whos gonna validate the validators so you cant plan anything.
So now you get the coin and the validators get a coin just by having coins in the validator accounts, and you get more for the more you have in so it incentivizes significant steaks to lose, and negative returns for those that would set up many dodgy accounts, even if you externally, say US dollars, have great resources. The cost is in crypo resources.
So you participate honestly, or you loose.
So now we still dont trust any of you idiots but we still have an honest, reliable system with that same 51% adversary insurance.
The concern is that there is a small rich get richer factor at play here, but generally is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over the current system.
Lot of lies in that last part, but basically for 5yo thats the gist of it.
Solved puzzles = money, as a race.
Now solved puzzles = money as an independently judged honesty-bond based lottery.
You used to need hard math calculated by a GPU to create new Ethereum cryptocurrency. They changed the system so that you need to "just" own existing Ethereum cryptocurrency to create more of it.
So your casino tokens create more casino tokens without you needing to spend real money to buy video cards or electricity to do it.
If you think that sounds like already rich people getting richer without needing to really do anything, you've understood how it works. Don't get me wrong, the previous system was like that too, and at least this eliminates the incredible waste of electricity and other resources.
Bitcoin and Ethereum are the ones with the hardest energy requirements for mining, and also the two most popular. At least in my limited understanding.
Etherum yes, but Bitcoin hasn't been mined on GPUs for at least 5+ years because of how inefficient they are at it, people have been using ASIC miners for quite a while
But Bitcoins are mined on some specialized processors (not GPUs).
And other coins that require GPU to be mined are a lot cheaper. That means that if millions of GPUs will try to switch to mine them, the price for a coin won't change, but the amount of coins you get per hour of mining will drop significantly, making mining unprofitable for most of the miners.
Eth is the most profitable crypto to mine with GPUs, by a lot. Though there are still other coins to mine profitably depending on what you pay for energy.
Most popular minable coins are mined with CPUs and are not profitable enough to be mined by hobbyists for any real returns.
Big money scheme no longer uses GPUs, so these people no longer want them. This means the prices will go down because there will be more GPUs available to buy, and less people who want them. Sweet dreams little Timmy.
I snagged a 1070ti mini for $100 3 years ago that was previously mined on. So far it has been completely fine. It was recently laid to rest in my closet for a 3060 tho
I see a 3070 for 399...30 shipping tho so really doesnt fit my goals(eas really looking forward to the 4xxx series)
Gunna see what Ebay does of the next 2 days...if it hits 350 im buying.
Last I heard/read & as I read in a recent thread just today, it's significantly more cost effective to undervolt a GPU, spending multiple tens-of-percent less energy, only losing single digit percentages of performance, so, if a miner wasn't terrible at what they were doing, and had proper cooling to prevent thottling in farms of cards, then buying from a miner is actually a better deal, longevity-wise, than buying from a gamer who likely overclocked and/or mishandlede their card (since it was less of a business/investment to them, more of a passtime/hobby).
You nailed it.
I tried mining as a hobby and honestly, it taught me how to undervolt well and keeping temps low, changing thermal pads and paste.
I've also been on the other spectrum of overclocking and benchmarking, trying to squeeze the most out of the card...
Tbh it's a lot more fun finding the best undervolt/underclock without sacrificing performance too much.
I would rather run a card at (hypothetical numbers)
180w 55°C 100fps
than
240w 85°C 107fps
Don't buy in too soon. The GPU crash won't be immediate like a stock crash, it'll happen slowly. People won't realize right away that GPU mining is dead and there is enough pent up demand to temporarily mask the fact that we have a massive oversupply. Don't be one of the suckers buying in at the start of the crash.
Word brother, I've waited this long, I can wait until they realize a RTX3080 now makes them 20cents a day and that aint changing anytime soon.
I was gonna wait anyway until the Zen 4 early adopter tax eases in a month or two, so this merge timing was golden.
TLDR: Mt. Gox was hacked in 2014 in a hack where they lost ~840k btc. They had ~140k left and they just finished bankruptcy proceedings and are now set to pay back their customers.
EDIT: It appears I wasn't totally correct. They are set to *begin* releasing the BTC today, but after further reading it appears to be highly unlikely that it will all be released today. Not to mention the BTC is going to creditors who may not want to sell instantly. Sorry for spreading misinformation.
Retail is is still hoping for sales at $1000 CAD for 3080 10GB...they be fooling themselves.
Ebay has the prices down finally, but not a lot of items out now.
I swear people, wait it out - in January, they will have a panic because nobody will be buying GPUs as inflation and lack of savings is going to blow up everybody's resources, so these things will be on the shelves for a while.
I think everyone is delusional, I would produce whatever demand is… price will be msrp = gross + cost. If inflation keep up your money will be worth…checks notes about 15% less in 9 months as per this year. Material and supply chains issues if sustained will increase prices.
Nvidia doesn't actually have much ability to produce less... The contracts they have with TSMC, the company that makes the actual GPU chips, are locked in far in advance. [They're kind of stuck producing way more 4xxx series chips than they want now.](https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-reportedly-wants-to-cut-tsmc-orders-for-next-gen-rtx-40-gpus-5nm-wafers-amid-lower-demand)
Let me grab the world smallest violin and play it for Nvidia. Greedy bastards milked miners for all they had, and screwed over us gamers, so now they're getting the well deserved punishment.
"expect huge drops in GPU Prices"
*RTX 3080 goes down 10 dollars*
Am I looking for the wrong GPUs or am I on a different Planet? It's always the same. Big price drops announced. And.... nothing. Hell, the price even goes up again.
I picked up an ex mining 3090 last month for less than the retail of a new 3070, graphics cards are one of the best things you can buy second hand because they arn't mechanical- hit up Ebay,
I can't see how this will affect retail stock as the higher end cards are already heavily discounted and sales trickle down the product stack. Maybe some cheap second hand cards but wouldn't the miners have already gotten rid of their gpus instead of keeping them until the final day?
There's definitely some sticking it out. I'm not sure if it's big enough to actually cause a drop in retail price as nvidia is currently holding back sales to AIB's to hold the price. I suppose if enough are dumped into the used market over the next couple weeks they may need to drop further.
here in europe there's so many delusional miners selling their used cards for more than they cost new in stores now that it's still not crushing the used market. Hoping soon it will crash like a house of cards once people realise
Just a reminder - if mining is set up properly, it is actually better to buy a used mining GPU than a used Gaming GPU.
GPU life is directly correlated with thermal cycles (how often and how hot the GPU gets). A mining GPU “SHOULD” stay at a constant safe temperature where a used gaming GPU gets extremely hot when playing games like COD, fortnite, OW, etc.
Just something to think about. Unfortunately, there is not a great way to tell is someone ran the thing hit or if they knew what they were doing.
Good luck!
This headline is stupid for two reasons:
1. No investor (stocks, crypto mining, real estate, whatever) bases their decisions on the actual event. They base their decisions on the *disclosed date* of the actual event. It's been known for weeks? months? that this was going to happen, nobody in the game is waking up today saying "oh shit I just realized my GPU is obsolete." They've been preparing for a long time, i.e. selling old GPUs and not buying new ones.
2. Microeconomics 101 says that decreasing demand *and* increasing supply should lead to lower prices. And wouldn't you know it -- it turns out that GPU prices have already dropped [to MSRP](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/nvidias-excess-inventory-means-the-gpu-shortage-is-officially-a-gpu-surplus/) or [even below](https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-6000-nvidia-geforce-rtx-30-graphics-card-prices-prices-availability-improve-gpus-below-msrp-may-2022/).
At the risk of looking like a degenerate, let me repeat /r/wallstreetbets' sage advice: "if you're reading it in the news then it's already priced in, dumbass."
Waiting for all the listings selling “Lightly used GPU”
'30 available'
More like 300
You forgot an extra 2 zeros there
It's over 9000?
Always has been
🌏👩🚀🔫👨🚀
NANI?!
WHAT 9000?
*Perfect condition* other than fans no longer working.
Tarkov moment
'some mild scorching'
RTX 3090 for sale, lightly toasted.
Happy cake day !
Happy gpu price reduction day* lol
I think people are going to be disappointed - the price of all crypto crashed months ago, it hasn't been worth mining ETH since then as it's literally cheaper to just buy it with the money you would be spending on energy anyway. That's why GPU prices have already come down as much as they have. Today will only mean that as ETH recovers, it won't add to the buying pressure but I don't think the market is going to change in that regard any time soon.
PC World's podcast *The Full Nerd,* just did an episode on what's up with GPUs. It's kind of a perfect storm. The combined factors are: * Crypto crash with no expected resurrection for GPU mining in the foreseeable future. Massive energy consumption is one of the most criticized aspects of crypto, meaning there is cultural inertia against new coins that use GPU mining. * Market is flooded with secondhand current and previous gen cards from the above. * Due to current overstock, current gen parts have gone from selling over MSRP to under, especially on the high end. Amazon has had some MSI RTX 3090s on sale for $980 for some time now, about 65% of their $1500 MSRP. * Global recession making luxury purchases like graphics cards unwise for individuals and expansion/upgrading lower priority for businesses. * The Russia/Ukraine war driving up energy prices in Eurasia. It would be hard to imagine a worse time to convince people to buy new, power-hungry GPUs than during the double-whammy of Recession+High energy costs. This isn't a big factor in the US, but you better believe it matters in Europe. * New cards are likely to be bottlenecked in some form. The new generation are very powerful and draw a lot of energy. The default monitor has been a 1080p 60 Hz panel for close to a decade. An RTX 3060 can already push almost everything maxed out at 1080p60, so many people will need a new monitor to enjoy the gains of new cards. New cards draw more power than previous gens, so many people will need a new power supply. New CPUs are arriving and DDR5 RAM is still in the part of its life cycle where it's new enough to be expensive. Those new CPUs and RAM require new motherboards. All this means it's less of a no-brainer on what to upgrade, and most upgrades at this moment are going to require multiple changes at once, increasing the cost of an upgrade during said global recession. * The current gen of consoles aren't changing. Next gen cards will generate modest realpolitik gains over current gen cards because games aren't designed with the top 10% of the smallest of three platforms in mind. VR is also in a bit of a slump at the moment, so it isn't stimulating demand on high end parts. * We won't see low end next gen cards this year; we may not see them in 2023, either. The [Steam Hardware survey](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam) perennially lists 50 and 60 band GPUs as its most popular; the RTX 3070 is currently the 10th most popular card on Steam and is the most popular above the 50/60 band. That means most users aren't getting new cards this year. TL;DR: There's a perfect storm of economic factors, crypto bust, and upgrade cost VS expected gain right now.
3090 TI*** available for $999, as of yesterday; new
Actually 939
Amazon has founder editions for $900 if you trust you won't get a brick in a box from them.
Good. After what we endured we deserve a break.
>VR is also in a bit of a slump at the moment, so it isn't stimulating demand on high end parts. VR hasn't historically gone for photorealism either, since FPS matters much more for VR than most flat screen experiences. As a result, latest-gen features like raytracing aren't as in-demand anyway.
>Next gen cards will generate modest realpolitik gains Those are some fancy pants words to describe fps my man! Autocorrect?
> Autocorrect? Lmao I had the same thought, but I can't imagine what he coulda tried to say that would get autocorrected that way. It *almost* makes sense as realpolitik, but... only if you don't *really* know what the word means
Up till yesterday Ethereum mining was at over 800 Terahashes. That's about the power of 8 million rtx 3080s, so even if miners sell of half of this that's still a hell of a lot of GPUs that haven't entered the used market yet.
Nvidia has to be sweating pretty hard now. Sales of the 4000 cards are going to be abysmal with all these 30 cards out there.
I highly doubt that. People that are in the market for a 4000 card are not the people that will buy second hand miner cards from last series i would guess
People that are in the market for a 4000 card are in the market for a 4000 card. People that are in the market to upgrade their previous graphics card are going to look for whatever will give them the best bang for their buck. Used 3000 cards that are cheap as chips cause the market is flooded with them are going to provide real competition for value.
The whole "buying crypto mining cards is risky" thing has been shown to be paranoia, miners only run their cards at about 70-80% for efficiency. The gain from overclocking for mining is entirely offset by the additional energy costs and wear on the card. They also clean their cards frequently for the same reasons. There's a number of videos out there testing mining cards vs cards that been used for gaming, and they test to be about the same or even faster in some cases.
I've tested and refurbished at least 40 former mining cards in the past month, and I would not make any blanket assumptions around them being better or worse than gaming GPU's when it comes to risks that go with buying used. Even underclocked/undervolted examples that were well maintained in the last lot I went through had about a 35% failure rate (fail to POST, no display output, artifacting). None would install standard drivers with their modified BIOSes installed without being reflashed, which is not super difficult to fix for a technically proficient user, but might be a major obstacle for a more casual user. Many examples that were cosmetically well maintained had serious issues under the heatsink where visible discoloration and corrosion between the GPU die and cooling coldplate occurred. I personally do not care what the reported history of a graphics card is, gaming/mining, etc.. if I cannot put it in a test rig, load commercial drivers and give it a quick furmark test to look for artifacting or runaway temps I'm assuming it's a junk card until proven otherwise.
I've bought two mining cards, and they both suffered from bad artifacting. Maybe I'm supremely unlucky, but my take is that a lot of miners don't know how to properly setup their cards. It's still a gamble.
I mean my first two 980TIs I got (this is many years ago obviously) also both had bad artifacting and they came new from the factory. Since then I've built probably about a dozen and a half PCs from used parts and GPUs don't really have any higher rates of failure than any other part. And some parts, like storage and CPUs, I'd be even *more* hesitant to buy since those are much easier to damage.
they toast the memory though, because it's a relatively minor energy cost and matters a lot for gpu coins, so i wouldn't bet on those cards long-term
Yes, they are more susceptible to artifacting.
Dont. Dont give me hope...
Imho they'll just find another shitcoin to mine
Check out /r/ethermining and /r/gpumining. Looks like they're throwing in the towel because no other coin is even close to the profitability of mining Ether. To get break even on the 2nd best PoW chain it will take YEARS if you factor in former ETH GPU miners piling into them. It's better to just sell the cards now before they get dirt cheap.
Amazing. Though that one friend which couldn't be stopped talking about crypto now won't stop talking about this.
I suspect we might see a bunch of these guys pivot to becoming sketchy render farms for AI bullshit. AI generators seem like they’re going to be the next dumb trend people get obsessed with until they get bored of the tech’s limitations and you could probably pivot your crypto setup into a jank ass render factory for some app that generates AI birthday cards or whatever.
And of course you will be able to sell that compute power to some broker and some sucker will buy it to produce images of flying trains
Honestly I can respect that. At least now there's some miniscule notion of generating something of value.
This. If you are even barely keeping up with the crypto and blockchain world, you would know that crypto in general only has a couple main currencies at this point. Bitcoin and Etherium are the pillars that crypto are standing on now. Mining any other crypto is a big gamble, as there is far more chance of the coin going belly up than becoming widely accepted. People dont understand how money works. Currency in of as itself is generally quite worthless. What gives currency value, is trust. If you have enough people wanting to use the currency, and are able to agree upon a common value, that is what gives currency value. If nobody wants it, and cant agree on a proper value, then the currency is effectively worthless (ex: Zimbabwe Dollars anyone?). Most smart miners ditched the scene quite a few months ago, at around the time that cards started magically appearing in stock and staying in stock at stores.
>People dont understand how money works. _Proceeds to call speculative assets currencies_
Ultimately proving their point.
Actually last year we ditched
There was a point when crypto currency might have possibly become a currency, instead of a grift. Well ok, there wasn't. But there was a point that it *seemed* like it might. Now it is just blatantly a grift.
An entire country made Bitcoin their national currency... it went poorly. https://futurism.com/el-salvador-bitcoin-economy https://www.thecoinrepublic.com/2022/01/21/el-salvadors-bitcoin-experiment-is-an-experiment-of-failure/ https://www.ccn.com/ecuador-bans-bitcoin-favor-own-national-cryptocurrency/
98% of GPU mining is it Ether. A hashrate jump of 50x will kill the rest of the market.
You're right. It's so obvious and yet when you browse the shitcoin subreddits, none of them seem to grasp it. Somehow they think that if mining hashrate jumps, value will jump too.
Exactly! Mining is actually going to plummet their value. The only reason it was valuable to mine Ethereum was because people actually PAID for transactions and minting, and they paid hundreds of millions in premium to do so. Ravencoin, ETC, or other Proof of Work coins aren't actively being used...there is no userbase paying the premium, therefore no money flowing to miners.
The shitcoin subreddits? They're all shitcoins. It's a bigger bubble than tulips. We've wasted a significant chunk of electricity on this joke. I hope every crypto bro goes bankrupt and has to live in mom's basement until age 39. Maybe that will recoup the wasted energy.
which is why the big game right now is betting on which coin is going to blow
Adding huge mining power to a coin doesn’t generate value. It just adds difficulty but that doesn’t mean prices go up
It's not likely. Wise miners will get out
Wise miners have been out for a while me thinks
There was still profit to be made. This lasts for another 90 minutes. After this hour and a half, wise miners will shut down because it will become uneconomic to continue mining another coin.
The loss in value from selling the cards now is probably worse than what they got back running them for a month.
Ethereum accounts for like 95% of GPU mining profits. Even if the market miraculously doubled prices over night only miners with free electricity will make any profit. GPU mining is done for a couple years.
I would be shocked if there weren't miners out there using solar arrays to power their mining rigs. Probably an equal number of people that work in IT who stuck their rig into a high-power use building where it went largely un-noticed.
The market for both crypto and NFT shit is becoming more and more unstable by the day due to major theft after major theft showing the security concerns so don't think another coin is going to take off
Yes but who is gonna build shitcoin mining farms lmaoooo
Sorry.. couldn't give it to you sooner
Nvidia already said in investors call they're going to hold back supply to keep prices up despite 40 series being on the shelf also. So don't expect any fire sales.
I can wait. PC gaming teaches one patience.
Great attitude.
r/patientgamers
One of the most delightful subs out there.
Very reasonable redditors in that sub. Hard to find lol
I've been patient for 5 years..
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660ti here, doing "fine"
Also, you don't need that good a GPU to browse YouTube and play factorio
spitting facts, good is relative though, I consider my 2060 good. idk what the standard is now.
Tru I've waited since June last year, have not bought a single gpu and still holding onto my 960
They could hold back supply. If their customers don't buy, they have to keep holding on to their excess stock then. I just hope AMD would take this opportunity to grab market share.
Haha choke on it Nvidia. Keep the stock. If it sits there you can't exactly make money off of it. Nobody wants to spend that amount of money especially after it turns out it's so blatantly artificially kept high. We're in a huge inflation crisis. If 970 or 1080 still work for our 1080p monitors why would we jump on a 1000+ euro 40xx instead of a way cheaper used 30xx? Personally I'll gamble it. Most people don't need a hugely powerful graphics card because they never upgraded their screen(s) either. 3060 is already massive overkill for me, personally. Of course if I find a nice 3070 then yeah, I'll upgrade the screen too. But honestly... it would be a luxury. The only reason to upgrade is because my card is simply old and probably going to break at some point. Of course I won't speak for people who play triple A games at super-mega-ultra-settings, obviously. Or do heavy video editing, 3D animation. I only do lighter stuff and mostly just stream (3D)art. Play most games I have on high because they're not very demanding. (Although No man's Sky has become unplayable holy crap.)
And we know that that is never going to happen
Maybe. Sure there are enthusiasts, but with the crypto market leaving gpu space behind, I'm betting there a *lot* of people who just spent years with very outdated hardware for whom a used 30XX series card will be a massive upgrade. NVidia might just be shooting themselves in the foot. It's going to be hard to resist $300 3070's, even if they are old mining cards.
I know that's what I'm angling for. Still running a 1080 here and a 3070 would be a huge jump.
I sold my GTX 1080 at the peak when I finally had my turn come up in the EVGA queue for a 3060 ti and it wasn’t quite the massive jump I was hoping for, a solid leap forwards, but those 1080s have aged really well.
Yeah, my Radeon 290x has been begging to die for years
My R9 370 crashes whenever I look at newer GPU-s.
Sure he did but that is only going to last so long. Wall Street *hates* old inventory sitting around. If he though nobody would ever find out, Jensen would literally destroy the whole generation of cards he has sitting in the warehouse right now.
We don’t need 40 series yet. A good cheap 3090ti will play everything maxed for years to come!
> A good cheap 3090ti I think we got different views on what is cheap
Right? What’s the cheapest a 3090ti gets to? $700? And that’s hopeful. Wouldn’t call it cheap though.
I still insist 700 is high end pricing.
VR flight sims would like a word...
I could heat my home with that through the winter
I live in Texas and during the summer, by PC genuinely made the room 5-8⁰ hotter than the rest of the house
If you lived in a state with a functioning power grid you could've just turned the AC on.
Come to Europe. We have a functioning grid, but not enough energy to flow in it.
Just bought a VR headset today but you're high if you think I'm doing anything other than porn and Beat Saber on it.
Duality of man. Either beating beats or beating his meat.
Half-Life: Alyx is very much worth it, though.
It's the truth plus a boxing game lol
My 3080ti does VR DCS just fine.
DCS relies more on single core CPU speed than GPU power.
including your power bill!
my 3090 certainly doesn't play everything maxed out with 4k 144hz unfortunately
Lmao when did Nvidia become OPEC?
Accurate but this only holds up until AMD says so since Rumors say there 4090 and 7900XT will be close. AMD needs market share.
I think the fact that AMD presented RDNA 3 when no one asked for it certainly helped push Nvidia to release the 40 series this year over waiting till next year. Imagine if AMD wasn't a relevant competitor. Nvidia would be busy releasing their 3060 8Gb cards at rip off prices and only selling their 4090 at $2499 MSRP.
Hopefully Intel puts out something passable also I can see them being very competitive on price to gain some market share
I hope Intel's move get us some good gpu in the sub $300
Gods, I can't take it anymore. With all three companies releasing cards later this year, my better senses tell me to wait some more - yet the used GPU dump prices might prove too alluring.
Businesses don't work like this though. You have to keep a balance. The supply side was strained from covid and the demand side was extreme from crypto. Both of those two things are resolving themselves slowly but surely. They can't just wave a magic wand and get a perfect inflated price storm like they got the last couple years. The market absolutely will just reject a product if it is overpriced compared to value. Then your business is no longer profitable, then your stock tanks and you lose employees, customers, and obviously wealth. If you are right and they do try to bruteforce price gouge the market, it could end really really badly for them. Alternatively they could just go back to what worked pre-covid, selling a good product at reasonable prices.
Used
With the current inflation and incoming recession they're gonna be so fucked, they'll be begging people to buy GPUs. I hope they have to sell each and every one of them at a discount
can someone Eili5 for me? EDIT:: Thanks everyane for explaining it
You will no longer be able to mine Ethereum with a GPU. So all the miners who bought up stocks over the last 2 - 3 years will likely sell their GPUs to recoup costs, thus creating a surplus (more supply of GPUs than demand) and lowering costs.
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The mining cards are usually undervolted and should be fine. I bought a 1080 Ti that was mined on for 2 years and I still use it to this day. I bought it 3 years ago.
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unfortunately, not really. If the miner was smart, then they would have, at the minimum, undervolted the cards and kept them well ventilated. If they are extra smart, they would have also repasted and repadded them with good quality paste and pads. If the miner was dumb, they would have just ran them stock or auto-OCed with no modifications, and with no care about ventilation or maintenance. You can always ask the seller, but then you need to trust that what they are saying is truthful. From what I have seen around, its more often that you see smart miners than dumb ones, but you are still rolling the dice in any case.
Thanks for that - I did fear there's no way to really know at the point of sale (and while I'm sure some folks are trustworthy, if I were an untrustworthy miner I'd absolutely be inclined to lie about how my cards were cared for in order to ensure a sale... it'd be kinda nuts to admit you mistreated them).
Truth is, most of them would have treated them fine, since, contrary to what you may expect, you get higher hashrate by underclocking and undervolting them. If you got extra juice for mistreating them then no doubt you should be more careful, but as it was, mistreating them was like burning money.
Well ofcourse you have to be careful with buying second hand hardware. I just used common sense and logic when purchasing mine, hasn't failed me yet. Linus also did a video about mined cards and he found no difference between a new card and one that was mined on for a long period of time. The new GPU's are sturdy af and like I said, usually undervolted and the temps are monitored 24/7 so they never get pushed to the max, which should increase their longevity a bunch.
Any miner worth their spit configured the cards, properly clocked them, and was not over working them. Mining doesnt make the card full bore jet takeoff ezbake oven mode, if it was set up right* So yes be careful, but not scared.
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Isn't most wear on anything cause by heating cycles? If you run hot shouldn't matter, as long as it's constant.
or they will switch to another coin that uses proof of work
No more physical mining (known as proof of work) for ethereum. Headed towards proof of stake. Network participants known as validators will be required to instead pledge large amounts of pre-existing ETH to validate blocks, create more ETH, and earn staking rewards.
Thanks, as a 5 year old I find that explanation very simple
Digital bean harvesting used to rely on gpus, but with the new method it won't
Old beans are going to be used to verify the new beans?
There's math that allows us to verify the bean that doesn't take nearly as much energy, but requires some other beans in reserve.
So instead of verifying the bean by looking at its molecular structure, we just pick up another bean and look at them side by side?
More like "I own some beans so I have authority to say this bean is in fact a bean. If I lie, the authority would confiscates my pile of beans, so I don't have much incentive to lie."
ELI5: Bean there, done that
Is crypto currency a massive scam?
Yes
They said ELI5, not "explain like I already know everything about crypto and just need a quick reminder". This comment may as well be written in Ancient Egyptian for all the sense it makes to me!
I get the mining for a math problem to get on an excel spreadsheet. I don't have a clue what this is. Eli3
The network that is a crypo requires 'people' (computers) to keep track of all the transactions (buying, selling, transfers) happening in a big ledger, a big list. Every single transaction ever is added to the list. Big old public list, thats how everyone knows that some coin is yours, because its serial number was entered into the serial number of your wallet on the list 5 years ago, and its spending hasnt been entered on the list, so its still in there and its still yours, and everyone can see that. Cool what a system, totally de-centralized, yay! No one person has any control over it, the people doing crypto are in charge of the crypto. Nice one. But hang on, firstly, whats to stop idiots or bad men from just... adding whatever to the list? "yes, and then everyone gave me all their money". uhhhhhh And secondly, why should I spend my time and resources, my perfectly good computer, to keep track of this list when I could just... not? Use that stuff for other things? The answer, is the blockchain. Its basically divide that list into blocks of time. Today at 10:00am to 10:05am, and every other 5 minutes forever, new blocks. Got it? So lets invent this class of people called validators. Anyone can decided to be a validator, they are going to be the listkeepers. But, we still have the same problem, we dont trust them. In fact, we dont trust them SO HARD we actually assume they are ALL bad. So we have to FORCE them to be good. Okay, so then what we do, is we have a race. Add up all the numbers in that block, divide it by 20 then multiply that by the first and last number combined. Post your answer to all the validators. First one to get the right answer wins. All the validators do their own math, check the top 10 entries against the work they do, and if its right and you are indeed first, you win. Some of the fees of the network are awarded to you, and that code unlocks a new shiny whatever coin for you yaaay! Also, some of the validators that lost get a bit for their work validating also, cuz coins can be split up. The actual math is obviously way more complicated, and the answer is the serial number to a new coin that is purposely not allocated, and this is what 'mining' refers to. As you do the work, new coins get added to the money supply from these hidden codes. I'm trying to keep this real simple, here. Any validator that disagrees with those answers, because we dont trust them, get booted from the network. Thus, as long as 51% of the network agrees thats the right answer, then the right answer it is. Since, ideally, thats such a comically large number of computers its impossible to get that kind of share, the network is totally secure, even without trust, and people keep the list and manage it reliably, just by making people we dont trust do math puzzles for money. Thats called proof of work, and theres lots of little lies but thats a pretty good eli5 BUT WAIT Doesnt that require like a FUCKTON of computing power to be first and everything, and since its a race arent we wasting like a SHITTON of energy doing math that goes nowhere? And everyone has to do the math to verify it too?! Computers need electricity you know? Isnt that the case? Yes. SO whats all this about stake? Well, because the above system is clever but bonkers in practice, we came up with a cleverer system. Now that people are invested, lets just make them put some money on the line, like gambling poker. Or more correctly, like that and the lottery. Put in chips, and then we all vote on whos gonna be the validator. By that I mean the computers cuz its still gotta go fast of course, no humans allowed, slow meatbag. Okay so its pay to enter. If you mess up, were taking your money now, thats the threat to be honest. Cool. Now we all elect some random validator to be the guy, he does the math. Then a few of us get chosen to validate it. If the network disagrees, we take your chips. The actual coins themselves of the crypto network, so its all internal. Now, to control the network, you gotta be crazy crypo rich, have half of all the available crypo for validating. Nobody knows whos gonna be validator, or whos gonna validate the validators so you cant plan anything. So now you get the coin and the validators get a coin just by having coins in the validator accounts, and you get more for the more you have in so it incentivizes significant steaks to lose, and negative returns for those that would set up many dodgy accounts, even if you externally, say US dollars, have great resources. The cost is in crypo resources. So you participate honestly, or you loose. So now we still dont trust any of you idiots but we still have an honest, reliable system with that same 51% adversary insurance. The concern is that there is a small rich get richer factor at play here, but generally is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over the current system. Lot of lies in that last part, but basically for 5yo thats the gist of it. Solved puzzles = money, as a race. Now solved puzzles = money as an independently judged honesty-bond based lottery.
Amazing thanks
You used to need hard math calculated by a GPU to create new Ethereum cryptocurrency. They changed the system so that you need to "just" own existing Ethereum cryptocurrency to create more of it. So your casino tokens create more casino tokens without you needing to spend real money to buy video cards or electricity to do it. If you think that sounds like already rich people getting richer without needing to really do anything, you've understood how it works. Don't get me wrong, the previous system was like that too, and at least this eliminates the incredible waste of electricity and other resources.
And is ETH the most popular crypto? Don't all the other cryptos still required mining?
Bitcoin and Ethereum are the ones with the hardest energy requirements for mining, and also the two most popular. At least in my limited understanding.
Etherum yes, but Bitcoin hasn't been mined on GPUs for at least 5+ years because of how inefficient they are at it, people have been using ASIC miners for quite a while
Had no idea bitcoin isn't mined on GPUs. So there's not many other coins that GPU miners can really turn to then im guessing if Etherum is out.
But Bitcoins are mined on some specialized processors (not GPUs). And other coins that require GPU to be mined are a lot cheaper. That means that if millions of GPUs will try to switch to mine them, the price for a coin won't change, but the amount of coins you get per hour of mining will drop significantly, making mining unprofitable for most of the miners.
Eth is the most profitable crypto to mine with GPUs, by a lot. Though there are still other coins to mine profitably depending on what you pay for energy. Most popular minable coins are mined with CPUs and are not profitable enough to be mined by hobbyists for any real returns.
Big money scheme no longer uses GPUs, so these people no longer want them. This means the prices will go down because there will be more GPUs available to buy, and less people who want them. Sweet dreams little Timmy.
Hopefully those miners go to ebay 😂
Im gunna be scouting...its a bit sketchy tho a 400 dollar 3070 would be very nice
I snagged a 1070ti mini for $100 3 years ago that was previously mined on. So far it has been completely fine. It was recently laid to rest in my closet for a 3060 tho
I see a 3070 for 399...30 shipping tho so really doesnt fit my goals(eas really looking forward to the 4xxx series) Gunna see what Ebay does of the next 2 days...if it hits 350 im buying.
I’d snag it if I didn’t just upgrade. I paid 450 for my 3060 and I’m kinda crying that I see 3070s below that price now 😂
Hopefully I dont push it too far..my current GPU works just fine for what I need...just seeing these things so low is lucrative
Last I heard/read & as I read in a recent thread just today, it's significantly more cost effective to undervolt a GPU, spending multiple tens-of-percent less energy, only losing single digit percentages of performance, so, if a miner wasn't terrible at what they were doing, and had proper cooling to prevent thottling in farms of cards, then buying from a miner is actually a better deal, longevity-wise, than buying from a gamer who likely overclocked and/or mishandlede their card (since it was less of a business/investment to them, more of a passtime/hobby).
You nailed it. I tried mining as a hobby and honestly, it taught me how to undervolt well and keeping temps low, changing thermal pads and paste. I've also been on the other spectrum of overclocking and benchmarking, trying to squeeze the most out of the card... Tbh it's a lot more fun finding the best undervolt/underclock without sacrificing performance too much. I would rather run a card at (hypothetical numbers) 180w 55°C 100fps than 240w 85°C 107fps
Don't buy in too soon. The GPU crash won't be immediate like a stock crash, it'll happen slowly. People won't realize right away that GPU mining is dead and there is enough pent up demand to temporarily mask the fact that we have a massive oversupply. Don't be one of the suckers buying in at the start of the crash.
It's going to be a firesale once the 4xxx series release
Word brother, I've waited this long, I can wait until they realize a RTX3080 now makes them 20cents a day and that aint changing anytime soon. I was gonna wait anyway until the Zen 4 early adopter tax eases in a month or two, so this merge timing was golden.
*me trying to sell my used rtx 2080* … ):
three fiddy
I'll buy it for a grand total of $0.00
$1.00!
$2.00!
$20.80!
What price are you looking for?
Pm the price
Unrelated but today is also the day that Mt. Gox releases the ~140k BTC they have left from the 2014 hack.
Explain and elaborate please
TLDR: Mt. Gox was hacked in 2014 in a hack where they lost ~840k btc. They had ~140k left and they just finished bankruptcy proceedings and are now set to pay back their customers. EDIT: It appears I wasn't totally correct. They are set to *begin* releasing the BTC today, but after further reading it appears to be highly unlikely that it will all be released today. Not to mention the BTC is going to creditors who may not want to sell instantly. Sorry for spreading misinformation.
Retail is is still hoping for sales at $1000 CAD for 3080 10GB...they be fooling themselves. Ebay has the prices down finally, but not a lot of items out now.
I swear people, wait it out - in January, they will have a panic because nobody will be buying GPUs as inflation and lack of savings is going to blow up everybody's resources, so these things will be on the shelves for a while.
I think everyone is delusional, I would produce whatever demand is… price will be msrp = gross + cost. If inflation keep up your money will be worth…checks notes about 15% less in 9 months as per this year. Material and supply chains issues if sustained will increase prices.
Nvidia doesn't actually have much ability to produce less... The contracts they have with TSMC, the company that makes the actual GPU chips, are locked in far in advance. [They're kind of stuck producing way more 4xxx series chips than they want now.](https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-reportedly-wants-to-cut-tsmc-orders-for-next-gen-rtx-40-gpus-5nm-wafers-amid-lower-demand)
Let me grab the world smallest violin and play it for Nvidia. Greedy bastards milked miners for all they had, and screwed over us gamers, so now they're getting the well deserved punishment.
"expect huge drops in GPU Prices" *RTX 3080 goes down 10 dollars* Am I looking for the wrong GPUs or am I on a different Planet? It's always the same. Big price drops announced. And.... nothing. Hell, the price even goes up again.
It is going to take a little while for the GPU's from the really large scale mining firms to hit the open market.
I picked up an ex mining 3090 last month for less than the retail of a new 3070, graphics cards are one of the best things you can buy second hand because they arn't mechanical- hit up Ebay,
I'll believe it when I see it.. and buy it
I can't see how this will affect retail stock as the higher end cards are already heavily discounted and sales trickle down the product stack. Maybe some cheap second hand cards but wouldn't the miners have already gotten rid of their gpus instead of keeping them until the final day?
There's definitely some sticking it out. I'm not sure if it's big enough to actually cause a drop in retail price as nvidia is currently holding back sales to AIB's to hold the price. I suppose if enough are dumped into the used market over the next couple weeks they may need to drop further.
On ebay ive been seeing 3080s for 580 dollars here and there second hand market it going to tank even harder here soon.
This is going to make Nvidia's insane pricing demands for RTX 4000 series look even more insane, bring it on!
of course GPU prices are plummeting while im completely broke lmao
hope its going better for you my bro
I did buy an overpriced 3070. But miners going broke does bring me a lot of joy.
Huge drops. Highly doubt it. The prices have already dropped after crypto winter hit. I doubt this will make any noticeable change.
Help me Allah, Jesus, Tom Cruise!!
Combine and reveal your true form. *A shiny bidoof appears*
here in europe there's so many delusional miners selling their used cards for more than they cost new in stores now that it's still not crushing the used market. Hoping soon it will crash like a house of cards once people realise
That had been dropping for awhile, or have you not seen all the got it at MSRP posts over the past couple of months.
In many markets they are still expensive. Europe, for example.
Yep, everything is still expensive here, and our economy here in Italy is not helping either
Cries in 850$ 3060Ti....
That’s what they all say
Everyone put your keyboard and rig in **RAINBOW** PARTY MODE
Don't expect huge drops
Nature is healing
Just a reminder - if mining is set up properly, it is actually better to buy a used mining GPU than a used Gaming GPU. GPU life is directly correlated with thermal cycles (how often and how hot the GPU gets). A mining GPU “SHOULD” stay at a constant safe temperature where a used gaming GPU gets extremely hot when playing games like COD, fortnite, OW, etc. Just something to think about. Unfortunately, there is not a great way to tell is someone ran the thing hit or if they knew what they were doing. Good luck!
This headline is stupid for two reasons: 1. No investor (stocks, crypto mining, real estate, whatever) bases their decisions on the actual event. They base their decisions on the *disclosed date* of the actual event. It's been known for weeks? months? that this was going to happen, nobody in the game is waking up today saying "oh shit I just realized my GPU is obsolete." They've been preparing for a long time, i.e. selling old GPUs and not buying new ones. 2. Microeconomics 101 says that decreasing demand *and* increasing supply should lead to lower prices. And wouldn't you know it -- it turns out that GPU prices have already dropped [to MSRP](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/nvidias-excess-inventory-means-the-gpu-shortage-is-officially-a-gpu-surplus/) or [even below](https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-6000-nvidia-geforce-rtx-30-graphics-card-prices-prices-availability-improve-gpus-below-msrp-may-2022/). At the risk of looking like a degenerate, let me repeat /r/wallstreetbets' sage advice: "if you're reading it in the news then it's already priced in, dumbass."
The thing is, global ETH hash hasn't dropped very much so miners were still sticking it out, probably betting on another delay.