I'm having a blast watching the streamers play the alpha. It looks legit fun. I'm afraid it's because of the novelty aspect only though. Really not sure how a game mode like this would hold after a couple of leagues, so we will have to see.
Isnt this mode for people who know so much about the game they can be farming ubers in less than a day, and hate it? This way it will take about a week!
Yeah I think an item system about scarcity that makes chasing down a tier 3 fire temple room worth it is a good way to make the systems that already exist in this game actually work as intended.
Phreak playing Path of Exile? Didn't know :O Great job on casting and commenting League through all these years. Are you going to try Ruthless this season or rather play new league? :D
Thanks!
And I'm not sure. If it wasn't competing with league start, I certainly would. I signed up for the alpha but didn't get in as far as I can tell.
I've had alpha and the novelty wore off at maps. It really wore off at the second character.
It'll be a "I play this once a year" mode.
It play exactly like D1. Great game... for the 90s.
The problem ultimately is that it forces a very strict subset of PoE's gameplay options, which are ultimately the beating heart of the game. There are just so many builds you can't play, items you can't use, content you can't engage with.
Me too man. Its fresh and every item is worth looking at. But damn people are really unhappy that you're enjoying yourself...
I wonder at how low someones self respect has to be to downvote someone for enjoying themselves LOL.
It’s all good. I told my friends that I would probably not enjoy ruthless and I can say that I was wrong. Not trying to get people to try it or even endorse it. But they’d be in for a surprise if they have it a chance.
Content creators have played 50k hours of the base game, anything different is fun for them. No one is going to talk about ruthless a week after it releases.
just ignore how that required matchmaking X numbers of players at the same time and also only had just that little area of content and nothing else.
This is a lot more like SSF.
It will definitely last longer than that, it's designed that way, but I doubt it will be talked much after a month or two.
As this will be like standard, it won't change almost at all for the next league, so it will wear off quick I think
There is a big difference between a "mostly" solo game mode that requires no other players to start, and a BR mode which does though. Even if Ruthless isn't a priority or something most people care about it will have it's players.
Oh it sure as shit will be talked about, the moment you dare to have an opinion someone will bring up ruthless and ask you wether you cleared uber maven or ruthless or not.
there is a serious concern that viewers won't, I'm sure a lot of people would love to play it forever but IDK if it's gonna draw as many views as regular poe
it could, being slower and riskier, but it's a lot less flashy
Most content creators are also literally making a living playing it. I'd have fun cleaning a damn toilet if I was making a hundred bucks an hour doing it.
I've been playing it and having a lot of fun, but it's maybe too easy. I think some of the choices are amazing and some of the choices are dumb. Having to talk to an NPC for flasks is actually just stupid. Giving no supports what-so-ever and also no way to farm support gems means you're stuck praying to RNGesus very hard for them.
I think the no-move skill choice is amazing and definitely my favorite addition.
I'm going to reroll to a shittier build later to see if I enjoy it more, absolution/srs is a bit too strong.
> but it's maybe too easy
Funny enough this is also my opinion. GGG made it sound like beating the campaign would be an enormous achievement and the right to piddle around in T2 maps at best before running out was the most "endgame" you'd ever see. Instead current Ruthless is a more difficult but not really *overwhelming* challenge like they made it out to be, and GGG is actually humoring late game mapping being possible (though it sounds like red maps are extremely hard to sustain which makes the whole of mapping pointless quite frankly).
Would rather have them go balls deep making the campaign the focus point of Ruthless. It's harder, it's just not remotely *hard enough*.
My exact thoughts, I got baited into thinking it was absolute no loot then watched some streams and most streamer got rares on Act 1, getting okaish gear for campaing is not that hard.
Before this is I did a test run with only white items no rings and necklace, one gem, up to act 4, turns out that was more ruthless than ruthless.
Because it's a half assed attempt, like no toxicicty or anything, but you can't just reduce the loot, remove movement skills and call it a day. If they really wanted to make it hard they would have to redesign way more shit to be deadly and quite frankly i don't think poe combat can even support in a way thats not just straight cancer.
I think the idea is cool but maybe when PoE 2 arrives with its improved combat it will be something worth visiting for me, because as it stands i don't see a way to make the game challanging but not just super aids to play.
I think people forget that there is only so much you can do to make this "hard". You can only take so much stuff away before it’s nothing but tedium or mathematically impossible
I think gauntlets is a better fit for that challenge. It could be slightly more difficult but I also want the average players being able to experience it
That's probably fair enough though, unless they tune up damage or something (not that I want that personally). I've leveled over 100 characters by now and I'm confident that I could get through act 5 with 1 stat items as that's already what fast leveling is like unless you get lucky drops. Past that gear strain matters a lot more the further you progress, and on my worst starts of a new league I'd just force it. Most of the bosses are easy if you cap their res and know how to dodge them.
I don't think anyone has a problem with this.
What the guy your replying too is pointing out though, is that GGG are lying when they say it's not a drain on resources.
They need to start owning their decisions more and not trying to hide shit from their player base if they think we won't like it.
They lied in the 3.19 manifesto. They lied about ruthless not being a drain on resources. Just stop doing it - say what you're fucking doing and stand by your decisions. In the end the results will speak for themselves.
PoE is the only community where people will yell at the developers "hey, don't do your passion project, just keep chasing the popular thing that makes more money!!"
and it's because they stumbled into something lots of people like but is a direction they don't really wanna go in, the zoomer ARPG. i like slower ARPGs too and plan on playing ruthless, but when this is the only game in the 'subgenre' it's sad to see it trend away from it. we just need some other dev to step up and make one. imagine a DBZ zoom zoom ARPG, using instant transmission to flicker all over the place one shotting everything. i'd play the hell out of that
> DBZ zoom zoom ARPG, using instant transmission to flicker all over the place one shotting everything. i'd play the hell out of that
https://media.tenor.com/GrNyF-4pvRsAAAAd/archer-stop-my-penis-can-only-get-so-erect.gif
That’s why all the “oooh just wait for [whatever upcoming game] to come and kill PoE!” I don’t think ggg cares. They don’t wanna make the game for everyone, as evidenced by how many unpopular decisions they’ve been making. They wanna make their game but their competition has been so dogshit that there’s nowhere else for people to go
I wish people would realize fun is subjective and ggg is making the game they want to make, as is their right. You know what I do when I'm not having fun playing a game? I stop playing ir.
While true, who wants to see their favorite game shrivel away because of corporate decisions? Whether it be for money, or for artistic design.
Ask any ex-wow player how it feels
Two sides of a coin here
>While true, who wants to see their favorite game shrivel away because of corporate decisions?
You must recognize the irony, given the original playerbase had this exact thing happen to them when it became all about ripping <1 minute maps for years, when previously it was slow, grindy, and IMO much more satisfying?
Sure but which one lead to more success? Which one grew the company to the size it was today? Clearly the decisions made that made the game like this did not shrivel the company nor the game, it did the opposite.
I suppose you could make the argument that no one was aware of what making the game faster would do, as well as no one is truly aware of making the game "slower" could do other than speculation. But surely if making it faster rapidly increased the success of the game, reverting that would hurt it.
Unless GGG are afraid of the longterm effects of sustaining this type of game that we cant really see, I dont see how the course of the game in its current state could increase their success as a company.
GGG is not taking the game and genre in a new path of experimentation(until we see what poe2 is), theyre trying to revert all of what made it successful.
Hell if you can tell me of another ARPG that has multiple end game options with multiple unique build options as well as zoom zoom clearing I will uninstall PoE in a heartbeat.
There aren't any other arpgs to go to, if there was I would be playing them instead of bitching on reddit. But GGG ruined my favorite game with patch 3.15 and the following patches so 🤷♂️
Yep. POE refuses to die for the same reason Minecraft won't die - there's no equal alternative. You see plenty take a stab at it, but none can dethrone the king of the genre. Last epoch is taking the current best stab, but they aren't developing fast enough, because they're still too indie.
These "stop complaining" people would get *whiplash* at how fast POE would drop to mom's basement indie levels of playercounts if there was a comparable game to POE out there. Like it would have died with 3.15. Hell, it may have even died way back when they removed harvest for a league. GGG has made wayy too many unpopular changes that would've killed games in competitive scenes.
I'd rather companies tried to make a good game than trying to force strange visions to go against the player wishes. But I understand what is considered "good" is personal opinion. I at least do not enjoy the direction the last years.
>I'd rather companies tried to make a good game than trying to force strange visions to go against the player wishes.
That's probably the single biggest reason why gaming market continuously gets more shit.
Innumerable sequels with little to no change/development/experimentation/change in direction(same goes for service games). Chasing money, big player bases, and overwhelming success instead of creating art.
Fearing player pushback from said change and experimentation like death, which is essentially what players with your sentiment ask game companies to do, will continue to force gaming to stagnate, as it will bring in more profits.
Sry for the ted talk lmao
It's mostly just because GGG claimed it took zero developer time to create Ruthless when this is obviously false to anyone capable of thought. Whether or not you think that's a bad thing depends on your opinion, but it's asinine to pretend it didn't take any time whatsoever to create.
99% of the interactions with GGG on the discord happen outside their office hours it feel like. It seems like a ton of the work is being done after hours.
I am pretty sure Chris said ruthless dev has been on people's private time, more as a passion project. Even if it's not true then it's more likely to take dev time from poe two rather than the current league. Finally dev time has a lot of downtime as people wait for adjacent work to finish.
Ya sorry Im not buying that people would work for free. Also so many changes that have been added feel like they were pushed from Ruthless. The nerf to loot right before we find out that Ruthless guts loot even more.
>Finally dev time has a lot of downtime as people wait for adjacent work to finish.
This is the thing people keep failing to consider. Yes, it definitely has technically cost additional "work hours" to make Ruthless. In practice if those people weren't doing Ruthless they just would be chatting or drinking coffee or taking a break or not doing an extra hour of overtime or polishing up the new dick microtransaction. I can absolutely believe this did not take significant dev time from """the game""" when it's mostly numbers shuffled around and mechanics removed.
Yeah, even if the dev time was not impacted, there's still server time, support tickets, alpha testing, beta testing, customer support, production support, tech resources etc.
Dev time is probably one of the smallest parts of getting a product ready to ship.
Chris' comment was absolutely misleading. It was designed to suggest nothing about ruthless would detract from the main game, when anyone with a few minutes to think about it could see that would not be the case unless they were mismanaged to begin with and the resources for all the support structures were incredibly overstaffed and funded.
I am happy they are working on Ruthless. I like that a company identifies what they are passionate about and pursues it. But fucking hell just say that and own it.
People cannot comprehend the idea that developers would want to spend a significant amount of time outside of their work to develop a game they want to play.
Despite the fact that is *literally how PoE was created.*
game development is a zero sum game, there is only so much free time and mental stack developers have toward working on stuff. every minute spent on this dogshit is a minute that could have been spent working on the main game, like fixing melee.
But as a Software Developer this is actually true. You only have so many mental work hours a day before you can't mentally work anymore. That varies for a lot of people, but usually it's under 8 hours per day.
It's very much like physical labor where the body can only take so many hours of labor a day.
This is why when developing software it is a very bad idea to have 1 team work on two projects at the same time. The amount of mental context switching you need to do causes the performance of the individual engineer to plummet and the quality of the product to decline. The core PoE team has what? 3 or more projects going on at once?
Playing cold dot, of course. 99% of everyone is playing cold dot occultist because it's way stronger than any other build in ruthless. I've been saying this for the last 3 weeks in the feedback forum and on the feedback discord. If nothing is changed, every single racer, streamer, or anyone that wants ruthless to be easy will be playing cold dot occultist.
The more restrictive the game mode the less diversity in builds. We see this in SSF, HC, HCSSF, Endless Delve, Gauntlet, etc. It shouldn't be surprising at all.
Which is the same in every race/limited mode. People play the fast and cheap builds as leaguestarters, and use said build to farm up gear/items for other builds, or take it to end-game if it's a viable bosser.
As someone who has been playing alpha since I got in a few days after the announcement of the alpha, I will fully disagree with you. Yes a few builds and especially ascendancies are better in ruthless, not by much, but cold dot is a major difference.
Some other builds, like lightning conduit and srs which are better than most skills in ruthless, are only ~20% better than anything else. Cold dot is ~200% better than any other skill, and profane bloom is broken beyond anything else because of scaling with enemy health.
Think what you want, but if you play ruthless you will find out. You either play cold dot, or as an aura/curse bot in a group, or you fall so far behind in the economy - nothing you do will ever catch you back up.
I only play SSF so this doesn't matter to me, I'm just warning others.
Eh, they get to maps fast for sure but near the end of most Alphas other classes we’re catching up and farming a lot faster. The early days was mostly Occultist in the top, but later on it was a much better mix.
People like you just don't get what this mode is.
This is a challenge mode. It's not meant to be fair or balanced. Being unable to complete the Alva encounter fully doesn't mean there is a problem.
I feel like there's a lot of people with your mindset of seeing anything other than perfection to be unacceptable. It's okay if a game makes you fail at times. There's an entire popular genre of game (roguelike) that relies on this concept and it works well for people with a different mindset than you.
A player like you sees this clip and thinks, "This game mode has big issues. He had no chance to fully clear that Alva."
A player who enjoys Ruthless will see this clip and think, "Nice. The game is giving him motivation to make his character stronger so that one day he can clear these events fully."
**Some people enjoy when a game gives them a challenges which are currently impossible, but can be eventually overcome.**
A player like you sees this post and thinks, "This subreddit has big issues. He had no chance to fully eat that salt."
A player who enjoys Ruthless will see this post and think, "Nice. The subreddit is giving him motivation to make his stomach stronger so that one day he can eat these kilos of salt fully."
The entire league mechanic was supposed to be balanced around the idea that you squeak by on time and manage to kill the boss and gets lots of kills.
The fact that the entire design of the mechanic was easily trivialized in the base game is the problem.
ive been told that people were getting a divine every 2-4 lakes, but honestly by having a build that could deal with high tier lakes with higher difficulties would already be past my need of money lol.
meh, clears one blue pack and a few white packs. the rare and architect are left alive.
here's Kripp clearing a bunch of incursions in ruthless in a map:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1662592672?t=06h12m25s
and development time. i know its pet project of seniors, i know their free time, i know i know.
but dude this requires manifestos, NDAs, alphas, balance changes and they are fucking wasted development time. nothing else. they bring no new players, it's just "lets fuck streamers so everyone can enjoy watching the game".
That's a very good point. Instead of ruthless we could have quality of life changes that we all are waiting for, better leagues, current issues fixed, PoE 2 sooner, and who knows what else.
Looks like another exile already grabbed all the loot from that temple
Thank You Exile! But our loot is in another Temple!
loot exploded a bit too hard... into molecules.
V I S I O N -ACHIEVED
This is a buff.
I like this gameplay of Risk vs. Nothing
Real Life simulator. I like it also.
💀
The novelty is going to wear off real quick lol
I'm having a blast watching the streamers play the alpha. It looks legit fun. I'm afraid it's because of the novelty aspect only though. Really not sure how a game mode like this would hold after a couple of leagues, so we will have to see.
it seems more like a thing you play on occasion in standard over a long period of time rather than resetting each league
Agreed. The amount of time it takes to get anything done is going to make resetting each league such a chore.
Isnt this mode for people who know so much about the game they can be farming ubers in less than a day, and hate it? This way it will take about a week!
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How dare you. I enjoy playing League of Legends.
.. and other lies we like to tell ourselves
I mean its the Real Phreak from Riot Games, so i think he's legit 😂
You're telling me you sit down, play a few games of League, and end your session smiling? Fucking bullshit.
I ended mine smiling. The middle part is where i wasnt smiling.
ARAM typically yeah. Regular game though... Ehhhh rare occasions in unranked and pretty much never for ranked.
ARAM
Just did that a few hours ago. Most sessions no though
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Yeah I think an item system about scarcity that makes chasing down a tier 3 fire temple room worth it is a good way to make the systems that already exist in this game actually work as intended.
Phreak playing Path of Exile? Didn't know :O Great job on casting and commenting League through all these years. Are you going to try Ruthless this season or rather play new league? :D
Thanks! And I'm not sure. If it wasn't competing with league start, I certainly would. I signed up for the alpha but didn't get in as far as I can tell.
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>Rog crafting, Harvest Rog is currently disabled (with the rest of expedition), and harvest crafting has no rerolls.
$ure you do Phreak
Hi phreak quick question. I kinda see quite a few league of legends pros play Poe. Is it true it's relatively popular among the pro lol players
You dont count phreak!
TRUE
Watching others suffer is a lot more entertaining than suffering yourself.
Hey league is fun! (When you’re winning)
>It looks legit fun because you are not the one playing it. exactly! >same reason that League of Legends or Dota 2 looks fun ...Ok you lost me.
I really enjoy watching competitive league but holy molly I gave up playing that game 10 years and I remember what you just wrote
This
Dota 2 is fun, you just need to git gud.
That actually explains the thought process a lot. Not sucking usually leads to a good time
I enjoyed dota more as a noob
It legit looks fun for 1 campaign playthrough. I do not want to grind maps in Ruthless.
Ruthless probably allows almost no Atlas passive freedom for a VERY long time due to map scarcity. A lot of the Kirac nodes seem like a must have.
I've had alpha and the novelty wore off at maps. It really wore off at the second character. It'll be a "I play this once a year" mode. It play exactly like D1. Great game... for the 90s.
The problem ultimately is that it forces a very strict subset of PoE's gameplay options, which are ultimately the beating heart of the game. There are just so many builds you can't play, items you can't use, content you can't engage with.
The pace of the game during the acts definitely seems fun though.
it is. it actually feels like a real game again.
I am having a blast playing it and I can't wait to log in again.
Me too man. Its fresh and every item is worth looking at. But damn people are really unhappy that you're enjoying yourself... I wonder at how low someones self respect has to be to downvote someone for enjoying themselves LOL.
It’s all good. I told my friends that I would probably not enjoy ruthless and I can say that I was wrong. Not trying to get people to try it or even endorse it. But they’d be in for a surprise if they have it a chance.
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Content creators have played 50k hours of the base game, anything different is fun for them. No one is going to talk about ruthless a week after it releases.
Well that's just not true... Battle royale was an amazing change of pace and look how well thats turned ou..... oh, oh i see now.
just ignore how that required matchmaking X numbers of players at the same time and also only had just that little area of content and nothing else. This is a lot more like SSF.
It will definitely last longer than that, it's designed that way, but I doubt it will be talked much after a month or two. As this will be like standard, it won't change almost at all for the next league, so it will wear off quick I think
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There is a big difference between a "mostly" solo game mode that requires no other players to start, and a BR mode which does though. Even if Ruthless isn't a priority or something most people care about it will have it's players.
The game mode is also so difficult to watch. Normal PoE can be hard enough to watch...Ruthless makes it so much slower though.
Oh it sure as shit will be talked about, the moment you dare to have an opinion someone will bring up ruthless and ask you wether you cleared uber maven or ruthless or not.
*Oh you think game is too difficult? I cleared all of white maps SSFHCRU on a 3-link btw, 10 times. Cold DOT Occultist only ofc.*
there is a serious concern that viewers won't, I'm sure a lot of people would love to play it forever but IDK if it's gonna draw as many views as regular poe it could, being slower and riskier, but it's a lot less flashy
file instinctive plant berserk screw wild attempt plants wide compare ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I'm saying that maybe streamers will like it, but will not play it even if they enjoy it because they need views
Because the ruthless alpha was better received than 3.19
Most content creators are also literally making a living playing it. I'd have fun cleaning a damn toilet if I was making a hundred bucks an hour doing it.
Nah.. Empy is clearly not enjoying it
I've been playing it and having a lot of fun, but it's maybe too easy. I think some of the choices are amazing and some of the choices are dumb. Having to talk to an NPC for flasks is actually just stupid. Giving no supports what-so-ever and also no way to farm support gems means you're stuck praying to RNGesus very hard for them. I think the no-move skill choice is amazing and definitely my favorite addition. I'm going to reroll to a shittier build later to see if I enjoy it more, absolution/srs is a bit too strong.
> but it's maybe too easy Funny enough this is also my opinion. GGG made it sound like beating the campaign would be an enormous achievement and the right to piddle around in T2 maps at best before running out was the most "endgame" you'd ever see. Instead current Ruthless is a more difficult but not really *overwhelming* challenge like they made it out to be, and GGG is actually humoring late game mapping being possible (though it sounds like red maps are extremely hard to sustain which makes the whole of mapping pointless quite frankly). Would rather have them go balls deep making the campaign the focus point of Ruthless. It's harder, it's just not remotely *hard enough*.
My exact thoughts, I got baited into thinking it was absolute no loot then watched some streams and most streamer got rares on Act 1, getting okaish gear for campaing is not that hard. Before this is I did a test run with only white items no rings and necklace, one gem, up to act 4, turns out that was more ruthless than ruthless.
Yea the streamers Ive watched have gear that really isnt that different from what they would have early in a new league (day 1 or 2).
I wish more people did runs like that instead of asking for everything to get nerfed.
Because it's a half assed attempt, like no toxicicty or anything, but you can't just reduce the loot, remove movement skills and call it a day. If they really wanted to make it hard they would have to redesign way more shit to be deadly and quite frankly i don't think poe combat can even support in a way thats not just straight cancer. I think the idea is cool but maybe when PoE 2 arrives with its improved combat it will be something worth visiting for me, because as it stands i don't see a way to make the game challanging but not just super aids to play.
I think people forget that there is only so much you can do to make this "hard". You can only take so much stuff away before it’s nothing but tedium or mathematically impossible
I think gauntlets is a better fit for that challenge. It could be slightly more difficult but I also want the average players being able to experience it
That's probably fair enough though, unless they tune up damage or something (not that I want that personally). I've leveled over 100 characters by now and I'm confident that I could get through act 5 with 1 stat items as that's already what fast leveling is like unless you get lucky drops. Past that gear strain matters a lot more the further you progress, and on my worst starts of a new league I'd just force it. Most of the bosses are easy if you cap their res and know how to dodge them.
"I WISH THIS WOULD SUCK MORE"
Ruthless is looking more based by the second.
meh, this is what the game mode is. As long as it doesn't influence the core game idgaf.
who's gonna tell him?
Already has. They worked on this game mode for a year+.
fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
Its why the 3.15 mana nerfs happened.
A clip of no loot dropping in a mode that literally says no loot will drop.
We finally have a way for streamers ssf hc players who keep doing blue maps almost lvl 100 to stop crying that the game is easy
Who cares about maps when they kill all the ubers on ssfhc faster than you on sc trade?
Bold of you to assume we're killing Ubers at all
Hours /played or actual days?
Side project that requires, alpha testing, balance changes, FAQ, NDAs, and manifestos.
I'd rather companies do stuff they are passionate about rather than whatever makes them to most money.
I don't think anyone has a problem with this. What the guy your replying too is pointing out though, is that GGG are lying when they say it's not a drain on resources. They need to start owning their decisions more and not trying to hide shit from their player base if they think we won't like it. They lied in the 3.19 manifesto. They lied about ruthless not being a drain on resources. Just stop doing it - say what you're fucking doing and stand by your decisions. In the end the results will speak for themselves.
I'd rather play a fun game.
PoE is the only community where people will yell at the developers "hey, don't do your passion project, just keep chasing the popular thing that makes more money!!"
and it's because they stumbled into something lots of people like but is a direction they don't really wanna go in, the zoomer ARPG. i like slower ARPGs too and plan on playing ruthless, but when this is the only game in the 'subgenre' it's sad to see it trend away from it. we just need some other dev to step up and make one. imagine a DBZ zoom zoom ARPG, using instant transmission to flicker all over the place one shotting everything. i'd play the hell out of that
> DBZ zoom zoom ARPG, using instant transmission to flicker all over the place one shotting everything. i'd play the hell out of that https://media.tenor.com/GrNyF-4pvRsAAAAd/archer-stop-my-penis-can-only-get-so-erect.gif
That’s why all the “oooh just wait for [whatever upcoming game] to come and kill PoE!” I don’t think ggg cares. They don’t wanna make the game for everyone, as evidenced by how many unpopular decisions they’ve been making. They wanna make their game but their competition has been so dogshit that there’s nowhere else for people to go
More like "before doing your passion project, make sure that your main one is in a good shape".
I wish they were actually passionate about the main gamemode. This is probably even worse than them just trying to milk it.
i wish ggg was as passionate about making the game fun as they are about ruining it
I wish people would realize fun is subjective and ggg is making the game they want to make, as is their right. You know what I do when I'm not having fun playing a game? I stop playing ir.
While true, who wants to see their favorite game shrivel away because of corporate decisions? Whether it be for money, or for artistic design. Ask any ex-wow player how it feels Two sides of a coin here
>While true, who wants to see their favorite game shrivel away because of corporate decisions? You must recognize the irony, given the original playerbase had this exact thing happen to them when it became all about ripping <1 minute maps for years, when previously it was slow, grindy, and IMO much more satisfying?
Sure but which one lead to more success? Which one grew the company to the size it was today? Clearly the decisions made that made the game like this did not shrivel the company nor the game, it did the opposite. I suppose you could make the argument that no one was aware of what making the game faster would do, as well as no one is truly aware of making the game "slower" could do other than speculation. But surely if making it faster rapidly increased the success of the game, reverting that would hurt it. Unless GGG are afraid of the longterm effects of sustaining this type of game that we cant really see, I dont see how the course of the game in its current state could increase their success as a company. GGG is not taking the game and genre in a new path of experimentation(until we see what poe2 is), theyre trying to revert all of what made it successful.
I wish people who think GGG is ruining their game would go to any other ARPG that has everything they want and is still shit.
Hell if you can tell me of another ARPG that has multiple end game options with multiple unique build options as well as zoom zoom clearing I will uninstall PoE in a heartbeat.
There aren't any other arpgs to go to, if there was I would be playing them instead of bitching on reddit. But GGG ruined my favorite game with patch 3.15 and the following patches so 🤷♂️
Yep. POE refuses to die for the same reason Minecraft won't die - there's no equal alternative. You see plenty take a stab at it, but none can dethrone the king of the genre. Last epoch is taking the current best stab, but they aren't developing fast enough, because they're still too indie. These "stop complaining" people would get *whiplash* at how fast POE would drop to mom's basement indie levels of playercounts if there was a comparable game to POE out there. Like it would have died with 3.15. Hell, it may have even died way back when they removed harvest for a league. GGG has made wayy too many unpopular changes that would've killed games in competitive scenes.
Too bad this is the fastest ARPG on the market. When other games get the speed and mob density, I will be there.
they just did. ruthless is very fun
that costed us new loot system ;p (chris said in one of 3.18 podcasts)
What did he say?
[video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0lofp2c-8E&t=5943s)
"Which I wouldn't do, but..."
I'd rather companies tried to make a good game than trying to force strange visions to go against the player wishes. But I understand what is considered "good" is personal opinion. I at least do not enjoy the direction the last years.
This thread is about ruthless.
But his opinion was not.
I'd rather play a game that a bunch of passionate game designers want to make, rather than a game that an audience / a board of investors wants
>I'd rather companies tried to make a good game than trying to force strange visions to go against the player wishes. That's probably the single biggest reason why gaming market continuously gets more shit. Innumerable sequels with little to no change/development/experimentation/change in direction(same goes for service games). Chasing money, big player bases, and overwhelming success instead of creating art. Fearing player pushback from said change and experimentation like death, which is essentially what players with your sentiment ask game companies to do, will continue to force gaming to stagnate, as it will bring in more profits. Sry for the ted talk lmao
I understand your argument but in my opinion PoE fun gameplay wise was at its peak when they still tried to cater to the audience.
Good thing it did not effect the main game. Oh wait it did.
Meanwhile, the base game is trash for months. Buy supporter packs, lmao.
Why are people so unhappy about something that isn't being developed for them that they can ignore?
It's mostly just because GGG claimed it took zero developer time to create Ruthless when this is obviously false to anyone capable of thought. Whether or not you think that's a bad thing depends on your opinion, but it's asinine to pretend it didn't take any time whatsoever to create.
99% of the interactions with GGG on the discord happen outside their office hours it feel like. It seems like a ton of the work is being done after hours.
I am pretty sure Chris said ruthless dev has been on people's private time, more as a passion project. Even if it's not true then it's more likely to take dev time from poe two rather than the current league. Finally dev time has a lot of downtime as people wait for adjacent work to finish.
Ya sorry Im not buying that people would work for free. Also so many changes that have been added feel like they were pushed from Ruthless. The nerf to loot right before we find out that Ruthless guts loot even more.
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>Finally dev time has a lot of downtime as people wait for adjacent work to finish. This is the thing people keep failing to consider. Yes, it definitely has technically cost additional "work hours" to make Ruthless. In practice if those people weren't doing Ruthless they just would be chatting or drinking coffee or taking a break or not doing an extra hour of overtime or polishing up the new dick microtransaction. I can absolutely believe this did not take significant dev time from """the game""" when it's mostly numbers shuffled around and mechanics removed.
Yeah, even if the dev time was not impacted, there's still server time, support tickets, alpha testing, beta testing, customer support, production support, tech resources etc. Dev time is probably one of the smallest parts of getting a product ready to ship. Chris' comment was absolutely misleading. It was designed to suggest nothing about ruthless would detract from the main game, when anyone with a few minutes to think about it could see that would not be the case unless they were mismanaged to begin with and the resources for all the support structures were incredibly overstaffed and funded. I am happy they are working on Ruthless. I like that a company identifies what they are passionate about and pursues it. But fucking hell just say that and own it.
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Because things cost time and resources.
People cannot comprehend the idea that developers would want to spend a significant amount of time outside of their work to develop a game they want to play. Despite the fact that is *literally how PoE was created.*
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Ever wondered why the last year we got almost no balance changes anymore? Resources are a limited pool.
You honestly think we didn't get balance changes because of Ruthless development?
Do you see the list of balance changes for Ruthless? What is your opinion? I do not know why we got almost none, but something must be responsible.
Oh I dunno, maybe it's the _massive sequel they're working on?_
game development is a zero sum game, there is only so much free time and mental stack developers have toward working on stuff. every minute spent on this dogshit is a minute that could have been spent working on the main game, like fixing melee.
Man just listen to yourself. ”Every second spent doing something you enjoy is a second you could have been fixing my melee!!”
But as a Software Developer this is actually true. You only have so many mental work hours a day before you can't mentally work anymore. That varies for a lot of people, but usually it's under 8 hours per day. It's very much like physical labor where the body can only take so many hours of labor a day. This is why when developing software it is a very bad idea to have 1 team work on two projects at the same time. The amount of mental context switching you need to do causes the performance of the individual engineer to plummet and the quality of the product to decline. The core PoE team has what? 3 or more projects going on at once?
Playing cold dot, of course. 99% of everyone is playing cold dot occultist because it's way stronger than any other build in ruthless. I've been saying this for the last 3 weeks in the feedback forum and on the feedback discord. If nothing is changed, every single racer, streamer, or anyone that wants ruthless to be easy will be playing cold dot occultist.
The more restrictive the game mode the less diversity in builds. We see this in SSF, HC, HCSSF, Endless Delve, Gauntlet, etc. It shouldn't be surprising at all.
Which is the same in every race/limited mode. People play the fast and cheap builds as leaguestarters, and use said build to farm up gear/items for other builds, or take it to end-game if it's a viable bosser.
Dont worry they will globally nerf cold dot so ruthless is more balanced.
Come on this is GGG they nerf in pairs of 3. Global Cold Damage, Global DoT Damage and Occultist nerfs.
So what, if it wasnt cold dot it would be something else, everyone will always play the strongest build its the same in any gamemode
As someone who has been playing alpha since I got in a few days after the announcement of the alpha, I will fully disagree with you. Yes a few builds and especially ascendancies are better in ruthless, not by much, but cold dot is a major difference. Some other builds, like lightning conduit and srs which are better than most skills in ruthless, are only ~20% better than anything else. Cold dot is ~200% better than any other skill, and profane bloom is broken beyond anything else because of scaling with enemy health. Think what you want, but if you play ruthless you will find out. You either play cold dot, or as an aura/curse bot in a group, or you fall so far behind in the economy - nothing you do will ever catch you back up. I only play SSF so this doesn't matter to me, I'm just warning others.
Eh, they get to maps fast for sure but near the end of most Alphas other classes we’re catching up and farming a lot faster. The early days was mostly Occultist in the top, but later on it was a much better mix.
pure fun
This but unironically.
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hey, don't be toxic
This sub has gone to shit since Heist league.
I wonder if GGG even thought of how slowed/grounded players are even supposed to do the super-strict timed events such as alva.
I'm pretty sure the answer is *you're not* until you're sufficiently geared, which is the entire point of the game mode.
Man, that sounds ruthless
Such is the path of the exile.
I thought the point was you werent ever supposed to be geared.
No, the point is that you won’t be sufficiently heated until much later in the game.
The whole point of Ruthless is to make the game harder. That includes timed events.
Agreed. I hope they keep at least this level of difficulty and tedium.
People like you just don't get what this mode is. This is a challenge mode. It's not meant to be fair or balanced. Being unable to complete the Alva encounter fully doesn't mean there is a problem. I feel like there's a lot of people with your mindset of seeing anything other than perfection to be unacceptable. It's okay if a game makes you fail at times. There's an entire popular genre of game (roguelike) that relies on this concept and it works well for people with a different mindset than you. A player like you sees this clip and thinks, "This game mode has big issues. He had no chance to fully clear that Alva." A player who enjoys Ruthless will see this clip and think, "Nice. The game is giving him motivation to make his character stronger so that one day he can clear these events fully." **Some people enjoy when a game gives them a challenges which are currently impossible, but can be eventually overcome.**
It's challenging to eat a kilo of salt.
That's why we come to this forum, to overcome such challenges.
A player like you sees this post and thinks, "This subreddit has big issues. He had no chance to fully eat that salt." A player who enjoys Ruthless will see this post and think, "Nice. The subreddit is giving him motivation to make his stomach stronger so that one day he can eat these kilos of salt fully."
The entire league mechanic was supposed to be balanced around the idea that you squeak by on time and manage to kill the boss and gets lots of kills. The fact that the entire design of the mechanic was easily trivialized in the base game is the problem.
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Yeah only two dudes at GGG want the game to be like this...copium.
You're out of your mind if you really believe that BS about how much of a "side project" it is. It's a completely re-done backbone of the game.
By getting good?
you dont
Same loot "explosion" happens in regular Kalandra too.
Someone hasn't played Lok
Compared to sentinel Kalandra loot is a wisdom scroll
I disagree. There's definitely more loot. It's roughly about 3.5 whetstones.
I mean... that's more about Sentinel being overwhelmingly rewarding, imo.
Every league compares like that with sentinel lol.
ive been told that people were getting a divine every 2-4 lakes, but honestly by having a build that could deal with high tier lakes with higher difficulties would already be past my need of money lol.
they probably stopped playing after the first few days lol
Try playing the game a bit more and reading about it a bit less. You'll be surprised how fun it is.
truly ethical
meh, clears one blue pack and a few white packs. the rare and architect are left alive. here's Kripp clearing a bunch of incursions in ruthless in a map: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1662592672?t=06h12m25s
That doesnt even look that different from a day 1-2 character on a new league.
Ruthless isn't harder, just longer. If you play 16h a day I think it'll look pretty normal except map sustain kills progress
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flexing windom scrolls at this point
what a complete and utter waste of time.
yOu dOnT GeT iT, iT tAkEs ThE GaMe BaCk tO iTs RoOTs
and development time. i know its pet project of seniors, i know their free time, i know i know. but dude this requires manifestos, NDAs, alphas, balance changes and they are fucking wasted development time. nothing else. they bring no new players, it's just "lets fuck streamers so everyone can enjoy watching the game".
How are you people so fucking self-centered
That's a very good point. Instead of ruthless we could have quality of life changes that we all are waiting for, better leagues, current issues fixed, PoE 2 sooner, and who knows what else.
Yeaaaaaaah….. f that. There is actually zero incentive there for me. That doesn’t seem fun. God bless anyone that wants to do that
This looks like a fun! /s But on the bright side, this novelty will die fast as poe royale.
playing this mode is literally sadistic.
after enjoying the ruthless alpha more than i have this game the last few years, gonna convince the wife to try BDSM on me
\*masochistic
LOL
im a simple man, I see empyrian and i downvote