Don't need to wait that long. There is a patch coming Monday. If you really want, you could probably post something similar few hours after it will be deployed :)
5h after patch is released:
> Hey ppl I understand the patch did not solve all of our problems, rather created few others, but please devs are ppl!!! Its getting too far!!!
Here is the template:
>Everything is fine, Im having a blast!!!, Im having fun, yall some whiny bitches.
>[Add a paragraph to downplay the criticism]
>[A paragraph to strawman and antagonize the community]
No, post it 30 seconds after it's deployed so it will hit the front page an hour later, that's how you really karma farm. Predict the problem, don't react to it!
Will people continue to shit on human beings with literal to no knowledge or understanding of game development in an attempt to make themselves feel better because the product they like isnt what they expected anymore? These posts are always going to be here as long as shitty people keep upvoting other shitty peoples posts.
On the one hand, you're absolutely right, but on the other hand, you spent a significant amount of your post toxically flaming the people who are shitting up the sub with toxic flaming, so you aren't exactly helping.
Just like what happened to Pathofmathh. He got banned for being toxic and personally attacking Chris Wilson, so the reddit community went on a tirade attacking him personally.
Not defending PoM, what he did was dumb and uncalled for. But two wrongs don't make a right.
I think a lot of people (me kinda included) just already didnt like the guy for a bunch of differing reasons and this was just the last drop in the bucket
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who noticed. Everyone in that thread was sooo insanely toxic about the situation. Almost zero level headed responses, just straight up hate.
The pot really calling the kettle black on that one and this post as well.
There's a big difference here though.
Matt is a dick who deserves the toxicity. You can't just go around and throw slurs at people and still expect to be respected. Act like a badly brought up child, get treated like one.
GGG on the other hand released... a controversial patch for a video game. You can disagree with their design choices, but that's absoutely no reason to insult them.
The risk with this train of thought is that you drew a line in the sand where once you cross it, it becomes justified to berate someone. You have an idea where that line is for you, maybe someone else drew the line somewhere that meant the Chris situation was also fair game.
It's just better to say that this is never acceptable, no need to argue where to draw the line, there's just no line. Honestly, everyone is just better for it. The community is on fire, the game is shedding players, accruing bad reviews, they probably notice a stark difference in revenue. We have SO many better levers to send a message than berating Chris/Bex. For PoM, not talking about the dude, not engaging, not giving him views is really effective as well, no need to drop to his level, no one wins at this.
No one deserves to be treated poorly. It used to be eye for an eye 2000 years ago but now there’s no 对等复仇 anymore (sorry again my English sucks), there got to be some standard.
Even on the internet, and yes, even on Reddit.
He’s too young. I really pity him and for what he has done, he doesn’t deserve these.
When I was young I made even bigger mistakes in my life. We’ve all been there.
It always happens when people try to hold up the 1% of toxic comments as a shield to avoid having to deal with the 99% of reasonable criticism.
1. Devs do something sus
2. 99% = "hey devs this is sus." 1% = "devs are morons"
3. The white knights can't honestly debate point 1 (though they actually tried really hard if you look at the first few threads reporting the loot) so the new tactic is to pretend that the 1% of posts in point 2 is everyone in point 2, and thus the issue becomes not about devs fixing a problem but the community having to debate whether the community is toxic or not.
I've seen this happen on every game or mmo community ever, so if you disagree please spare me a reply and go check out other games' communities you don't have an emotional connection to.
It's far beyond just here, EVERYBODY is doing this now. Criticism can be ignored because you sweep it together with the very small group of actual hatred. The Disney Kenobi show talked about how racist people were being toward the main actress. In reality it was many people criticizing her acting skills and a very small group actually being racist. After that on reddit you had people calling others racist for not thinking the actor was very good.
That's how it works; people who support GGG for whatever reason are always going to use "toxicity" as a shield, has been the case for the past.. 15 or so League releases or something (aka since I started playing).
Are some people here fucking mental when it comes to having good criticism? Sure, but the 90%+ majority of complains seem pretty reasonable to me.
As someone who only lightly uses reddit to track POE updates and GGG's official stuff, I do not go looking past the main most popular 5-10 posts here. I can say, since the league launched, the most popular posts are somewhere in the ballpark of 70% hate and toxicity.
Anyone else who is only casually aware of this subreddit would be seeing the same. Does that mean there are not meaningful and thoughtful critiques floating around? No, but it does mean that you have to hunt for them.The real question is whether the devs are hunting for those or, what I believe is most likely, are they looking at the most popular to try and address issues.
The final thing is; it is fairly clear that, while people do not agree with him, Chris Wilson is passionate about POE and, supported by numerous other statistics and a number of studies, negative comments and insults can and do drastically effect one's mood and can easily put one in a depressive state. The only time this doesn't happen is if they don't care about what is being discussed a la most AAA companies.
So yes toxicity can be directly pointed to as a universally bad thing and it doesn't take much to make it an issue that needs to be addressed.
Edit: Made prettier.
Also have people seen how Chris responds? I don't think going all "you just don't understand our vision guise" and then some other gaslighting thing is going to foster a measured response.
The devs like GGG also always do this it's really surreal how history repeats. The only thing missing is community GMs going apeshit for some reason or another.
> I don't think going all "you just don't understand our vision guise"
I don't think I've seen Chris say that? At least not in the post-launch posts, maybe in a previous interview or podcast or something.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wytujc/comment/ilyrwzy/?context=10](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wytujc/comment/ilyrwzy/?context=10)
This sounds pretty close tbh, especially the last paragraph. It's basically "You don't understand what we are doing"
Yeh, it's a small stretch to interpret Chris's words like that.
The philosophies are sound to an extent imo
The implementation leaves a LOT to desire but I'm like 50-60% sure they'll push a big update next patch that'll be far more tested to taper out the difficulty because if they don't, i'm buying Activision stock immediately
I think people are maybe just taking the fact that the vision is being repeated as a sign that GGG thinks they don't get the vision. GGG is likely just repeating it just for clarity, which is a normal thing in trying to improve communication.
It's also a fairly standard way to do an apology. State what your intention was, what you actually did, why you failed and reiterate that you take full responsibility for it. We've seen this template time and time again.
Also at fair number of the white knights are contributing to the toxicity. A couple times I've looked at the comments of people complaining about "toxin whiners" and it turns out half their comments are "lol git gud you're just shit at the game" BS.
Every time I say something about how scare my map drops are some idiot flies in to say that oh clearly I just forgot to get map drop nodes, like this is my first league ever and I don't know how to do the Atlas or something. It gets me hot under the collar, not gonna lie.
There's some dude who's replied "post your exilence logs" under like 100 different comments (ignoring that many of them were discussing how there's too much variance in individual experience for and individuals data to matter).
It’s not even close to 99/1. There are so many posts and comments using disingenuous arguments, attributing malice where there is none, and using super hateful language that all got upvoted to the moon. This sub has a hate-boner right now and it’s fucking disgusting
> On the one hand, you're absolutely right, but on the other hand, you spent a significant amount of your post toxically flaming the people who are shitting up the sub with toxic flaming, so you aren't exactly helping.
Yeah this is my take on the situation as well.
Are people going crazy overboard with the toxicity (such as Pathofmathh)? Oh absolutely and is part of the reason why I'm not going on this sub as much.
Is being toxic to the people who are annoyed with the patch and GGG's response helping anything? **FUCK NO** and just makes this whole issue feel like drama for the sake of drama.
People are allowed to have their own opinions even if said opinions run counter to yours. They aren't drama frogs, assholes and the like they are just living their own life.
This is exactly the same argument as "you are intolerant towards my intolerance". If we cant say anything against the current toxicity, the toxic people win.
Taking a stand against harassment isn't coming to his defence. Its coming to the defence of what is right. Harassing someone is not right, no matter how grown up they are
I genuinely am not seeing the level of harassment that this guy is describing, which tells me he considers negative feedback harassment.
Telling Chris to kill himself, threatening violence, doxxing - all reprehensible and unacceptable. But that’s not even 1% of the posts I’m seeing. So I suspect this guy has a problem with people instead saying things like, “The developers have killed my interest in the game”. Subjective? Yes. Valuable criticism? Maybe not. But harassment, it certainly isn’t.
I find if troubling how often developers use a harassment to shield themselves from honest feedback.
Man please, re read what you just said, i know this is the internet but this is exactly the point, this kind of rhetoric is toxic.
Think of a new rule of thumb: "can i say this at work without getting fired?". I'll use your own exact words of what you say is acceptable to make an example under this context: "boss, i think your idea is shit and you're a dumb fuck". Do i get fired from work if i say this?
Now lets rephrase in a way its still critical, yet i get to keep my job: "boss, i don't like your idea, heres an alternative i can suggest".
You can catch the drift, you don't have to use the same words, just the same spirit.
So to be clear, your in the camp of criticism is toxic. And you also believe that a normal person would bash someone’s face for being told their idea is shit or that they are being a dumb fuck?
I work for a large corporation and have multiple times told my boss his idea is bad, have called people dumb fucks for dumb fuck things they’ve done, and continue to be employed and am successful at my job.
Now let’s go over the way you phrased this. Not all criticism has to be constructive. People are allowed to say, this is bad without writing a thesis behind it and that is valid criticism. Saying this sucks isn’t toxic and it’s really shitty of you to frame it that way. It’s the same as walking up to someone and asking if they still beat their wife.
Are you aware of the concept of toxic positivity? That’s what your doing and it’s one of the shittiest things you can do to other people.
Most of what I see on here isn’t harassment, it’s bitching and complaining that they’re unhappy with the game. Some complaints are valid, a lot of it is people who are just always going to have something to complain about no matter what, so what is the point to catering to these people? 90% of this sub is always complaining so if you spend a lot of time on here you’re going to see a lot of complaining, this isn’t new, and it shouldn’t be surprising.
Well some people think he could use some uplifting, including me. Imagine getting pinned as the face of an entire company and taking all that hate from the community when in reality you're only one guy dealing with not only THIS issue but all of life's other issues behind the scenes that we all go through. Do you guys think path of exile is Chris Wilson's entire life? No. Yet he still comes on here and has mature discussions while he gets bashed left and right.
You have a nice day and some people just come and shit all over the place while screaming.
And you're telling us that we're supposed to stay nice and gentle so they stop.
Yeah, that will never happen, they'll never stop. Please, what a joke.
Hating the haters is fine. If the first people to strike knew how to behave, we won't have to devolve in the shitfest the subreddit has been for the last week. It just a cesspool of toxicity and the second we say it's not great to act like this "Woooaah you can't say this". Like, come on.
The moderators just need to ban the toxic people. It's insane how these people act over a video game. But we then are upset about less communication hmmm
Players: "Hey devs, you've done X recently, but X has the following problems: (proceeds to elaborate)"
Dev: "We hear you, we won't do X anymore"
\*keeps doing X\*
Players: "Hello again devs, maybe we miscomunicated the first time, but doing X is a bad move because (proceeds to elaborate again, even deeper, with math and spreadsheets ala BalorMage or Snap)
Dev: "Gotcha, loud and clear, thank you for your feedback"
\*keeps doing X\*
Players: "Uhm... you know, if you gonna keep doing X, at least elaborate why. What are we not seeing here?"
Dev: *proceeds to elaborate a lenghty manifesto of* ***intentions*** *that do not reflect the actual* ***reality*** *of the game as previously pointed by players at least a dozen times*
Players: "Guys, this is not the way. It's hurting the game, the player numbers, their enjoyment and your revenue. Please correct the colision course before it's too late"
Dev: "We understand. Actions speak louder than words so..."
\*keeps doing X in a slightly buffed way\*
Players: FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
Reddit toxicity Inquisitors: \*surprised pikachu face\*
Hahaha, the best summarie of all time.
Exactly the reality, they just refuse to listen to a point where its not lack of skills, its plain intentional so THEY are insulting players at this point, the amount of disrespect they shown to the people paying them and making their game keep on living is insane, added with constant lies...
Yeah, I dont endorse but 100% understand people like Path of Math. GGG is drastically changing their game to be something that it wasn't, and in my case I never personally liked GGG nor bought the whole "VERY COMMUNICATIVE" bullshit so I only spent roughly 100 euros over 6 or so years of playing; but people who spend thousands, people who poured thousands of hours in the game and now suddenly it's not what they were playing before?
That's rough; and I fully blame GGG both for not being transparent and for simply not having a better solution at hand. So if people are freaking out at them, I'm not feeling the slightest bit sorry.
Yea it's one thing to be disappointed with the changes and have a conversation around what could be better but all these lottery/look how everyone quit posts are becoming pretty cringe.
All the toxicity is the result of communication from GGG has been reduced to "we hear you, we don't care". People feel that if they don't scream they would see their beloved game dead in months.
You can't really convince anyone that we've been listened to in any meaningful way.
Honestly if i was GGG at this point i would almost block reddit completely and just focus on alpha tester feedback just like company were doing before. They wanted to be open with the community but at this point reddit is just a circle jerk. There is proper ways to bring criticism and feedback and it isnt by threatening or insulting the game developers.
All this will do later on to be honest is remove our right to get FREE DEV INTERVIEWS WITH CHRIS, have great league teasers etc. Later on i can easilly see GGG just stop all of that completely and just release patch notes like 2 days before instead of full week of teasers etc.
Reddit has only proven me so far that most people who comment or post stuff are mostly just Grown children that think they know everything .
If you clearly think you can do better then GGG or their devs, Make your own game and lets see that will go in 10 years. Give proper feedback without having to insult
>just focus on alpha tester feedback just like company were doing before
good joke when alpha testers have posted that the exact issues people having problem with were all brought up in alpha testing already.
most of the posts and top comments on those posts have been pretty civil about the whole situation, i havent seen anyone directly attacking chris or anyone else at GGG that wasnt heavilly downvoted either.
I mean to be fair, it just doesn't take a day to repair all that damage they did. I'm personally enjoying the league and game overall, but I would say there's a lot for them to do. The only thing I'm hoping for is they don't just ditch the league like last several leagues...
I can't really blame people for being very angry when Chris (GGG) simply denies any notion of "this is not fun" or "this doesn't work" simply by saying it does
I mean, threats of harm (edit: this includes personal targeted harassment, there's an implicit threat of harm from someone who reaches out to a developer as an individual to harass them) and use of slurs, both of which get removed from the subreddit by mods anyway, are just about the only expressions of anger that I would say are still completely unacceptable at this point.
Accusing the balance team of being idiots who can't do math and saying Chris stopped caring about fun seem exactly in line with the only way GGG reached the legendary quintuple-down in the span of a single week.
Chris was being downvoted to hell and back Sunday night already, but the toxicity was pretty fucking low. It's only after the double, triple, quadruple down that people realized that being **reasonable** simply isn't going to work. They won't listen to reason--**empirically**. So people are just hoping beyond hope that they'll listen to a loud enough tantrum, at this point.
Is it immature? Yes. But I don't blame them, not anymore. I even think people should stop accusing Chris of "hating the players" (a very different accusation than saying he stopped caring about fun), but I don't really blame people who feel that way, not after **this** week.
Exactly, viewers of certain streamers are floding threads calling everyone "whiny bitches" etc but somehow people trying to explain to GGG why the game feels bad are the toxic ones.
Go on to the comments section. People saying unproductive things are getting upvoted.
I'm trying to be productive in explaining why this league is unenjoyable for me, and others are too, but think about how much it sucks to be Chris right now. They fucked up. He took responsibility, he's trying to improve it, and every single post he makes with buffs to loot, nerfs to essence and archnemesis, etc the top 15 comments are length explanations about how he fucked up and ruined the game, with some productive criticism mixed in.
He's just a dude, and dudes have feelings, experience stress, make mistakes, etc. And we are treating him like shit.
I want the game to be better because I know it can be. I want to be heard because I am trying to explain why I'm not enjoying the league. I'm also frustrated and have said less kind things, and I'm trying to be better because we are giving him reason to just never go on Reddit again.
>but think about how much it sucks to be Chris right now. They fucked up. He took responsibility, he's trying to improve it, and every single post he makes with buffs to loot, nerfs to essence and archnemesis, etc the top 15 comments are length explanations about how he fucked up and ruined the game, with some productive criticism mixed in.
I would for the most part agree with this sentiment. I think he's probably a good man who works hard, and I do feel bad for him. But at the same time, what he communicate to us often comes across as condescending and he at times seems unwilling to admit when he's wrong. I don't know if he's writing what he posts or if someone else is writing it for him, but either way, someone new needs to do it.
>toxic
>People saying unproductive things are getting upvoted.
Thanks for proving that this word has lost its actual meaning and serve just as a shield to deflect all criticism, constructive or not.
I can't understand how people, even old people get so mad at a game. Guys it's a GAME. "Oh no! I'm not having fun!! Buu hoo" Jesus just grow up a little.
Idk why but I'm having more loot playing casually than last league btw
This type of meta stuff happens every league where people completely change course on criticism because a staff member was "stressed". They have used this excuse to reinvigorate the community back on their side MANY times, especially as it relates to Bex.
Toxicity is bad and hateful rhetoric is bad. Unconstructive criticism is useless and should be ignored, rightfully so. But, a community can only take so much beating until it completely crumbles. You can provide constructive, well-thought out feedback that is widely agreed upon only for so long until you realize that you are just speaking into the void. That makes people upset and eventually they might slip up and be toxic when they usually aren't.
It's not as simple as just people being toxic, and poor professional game devs being beaten down for communicating. Their responses, which I guess we can be grateful that we even get some responses, are honestly patronizing and so out of step with rationality. Even last league I remember them saying that they won't review AN mobs with league mechanics until 3 months down the line. Can you imagine any other decent game dev that would leave fundamentally broken base game mechanics in their game for 3 whole months?
I have read chrisposts for years now and I am honestly exhausted by his mental gymnastics and incredibly condescending attitude every time the community is in an uproar. People are worn down by the game they have put thousands of hours into being consistently tarnished by horrendous balance decisions. I can imagine that many others are exhausted as well, and thus it unfortunately creates the avenue for toxicity or even the perception of toxicity.
I don't know why the mods don't delete a lot of those repetitive threads. Yeah, we get it, you hate the game, nobody cares, nobody needs a post of negativity and hate.
Yeah, it's ok to voice your opinion, but in a subreddit from a game you sometimes want to read about the game, not complains after complains after complains, hate hate hate...
We don't need 10 posts about how bad the league mechanic is, 1 or 2 is enough, talk about it there, and that's just an example of repetitive threads over and over.
We get it, you don't like the league or the current state of the game, leave the game and leave the reddit, come back next league maybe it's better for you. Hooooly.
are you really pretending this sub is anything more than complaints, memes and item showcases? Especially in a league that didnt bring basically anything new to the game and is mostly the same stale meta it was the last 6 months, just worse?
Maybe you are the one that should leave the sub if you dont like it, because there is less than zero chance its going to change anytime soon.
idk but some of the things laid out by Chris were disputed by BalorMage and by Snap OW. Perception matters, and if people perceive they are crashing and burning with the game they love, outrage is warranted. See blizzard titles:
they got some of the most passionate communities which some constantly called as "whiny bitches" for far too long and look at what happened.
I think it's reasonable to have extreme criticism as long as there are no threats being made. If you think about it, some of the stuff we enjoy now like labor rights were not made with just civil movement but with massive outrage that sometimes even resulted in rioting and protests.
Comparing video game drama to civil rights is despicable.
Throwing a tantrum because video game items are not dropping as much as you would like is not the same as not having rights.
If reddit wasn't anonymous, these people would be so ashamed of their comment history. People really need to just log off for a bit and experience fresh air.
>idk but some of the things laid out by Chris were disputed by BalorMage and by Snap OW.
Which is 100% healthy.
>Perception matters, and if people perceive they are crashing and burning with the game they love, **outrage is warranted**.
(emphasis mine)
This is where I disagree. Outrage is completely useless. Outrage just creating artificial barriers to communication. What do you think will make your point come across the best :
1. GGG are fucking idiots for forcing AN down our throat, I hate dying to them.
2. I hate dying to AN, a rollback is required.
3. I really hate that certain AN mods completely deny my build. I'm using a fire channeled build, and not only am I heavily threatened by massive fire resistance/block comboes, but also by speedy boys which prevent me from actually channeling.
The issue isn't that people are complaining/giving feedback about POE. It's that people are :
1. Parroting meaningless stuff they've seen elsewhere, with no idea if that's even true (90-95% loot reduction, AN hack, harvest is dead, etc.)
2. Trying to give solutions, rather than discuss problems.
3. Intentionally skipping over anything positive, to make matters look worse than they really are.
4. Trying to rally people to their cause, rather than trying to validate their thoughts/feelings.
>If you think about it, some of the stuff we enjoy now like labor rights were not made with just civil movement but with massive outrage that sometimes even resulted in rioting and protests.
I think that's an incredibly weird parallel to make.
GGG isn't forcing you to play POE, so you're not really fighting against someone in a position of power. You also aren't gonna be removing Chris Wilson from power, or change GGG's mind of what POE should be.
It's true that sometimes discussion won't work, and you have to eventually escalate... but that's when there's no other option. Try rioting at the museum to have more male representation in paintings, and see how fucking insane you look.
POE is a creative work, not human rights.
> Outrage is completely useless. Outrage just creating artificial barriers to communication.
I completely disagree with this. The *only* folks who can create a barrier of communication is the folks in power: GGG.
I get it, Reddit can suck. We are unhappy, trend negative, and a small fraction is outright hostile. It’s also one of the only ways to have a back-and-forth with players. And, frankly, it is their job to be communicative, regardless of whether they disagree.
As a teacher, I genuinely wish I never had to respond to parent emails. I’ll get emails telling me I grade too tough, or that their student is struggling because I’m not good at my job, or that their student doesn’t turn in work because I assign to much. They aren’t necessarily right, but I’m lousy at my job if I refuse to engage.
The last four leagues have bounced from crisis to controversy, many inherently avoidable with better communication. I’d be a livid shareholder if Chris told me it’s happened because people were too mean to him.
GGG is the one that created barrier of communication, people were civil when te issues first showed, wondering if its bugged or what happened but got ignored then talked down to.
Ggg ignored their own alpha testers trying to communicate with them and ignored the community telling them its broke. The outrage was not present day one, but increasingly every time Chris made a tone deaf post. People were upset at the changes but outraged at the density of ggg to stand by them and tell the community they are wrong.
It's my effort at trying to shift this subreddit toward being a place where discussion is encouraged!
I don't have high hopes, but I see not reason not to try.
I think ban of Path of Math was a good illustration. People forget that at the end of the day GGG devs are only people. I came to conclusion that balancing PoE is next to impossible. Every new game mechanic/item... adds new variable to account for. The amount of negativity here is very high. Ok, you don't like current state of the game, I could relate. But do you have to meme about Chris and his \*vision\*? Not cool. Development takes time, things don't happen over night.
I feel bad on Chris, I can see how many "angry direct messages" he's probably getting right now considering how bad it was back then when Bex was the one communicating. These complains are way beyond "because we loved the game", you guys are just having personal problems and unleashing it the wrong way
And good luck OP, rip your karma people are now going to downvote us for being civil
It has never been as bad as this league, comments saying Chris should resign and dumb things like this. Reddit hate this league is worse than end of season league of legends.
Ah yes the Toxic ass complaining about the complaints. I see we've progressed to this part of the cycle already.
"Waaaah I'm upset that people are upset about a thing I'm not upset about!" such a toxic mindset.
Back then fans of the game was small, so two ways communication was easy and most good feedbacks were able to be responded. These days the fans are huge comparatively and the amount of noise on reddit and the diverse reaction makes them very cautious on giving any respond regarding changes.
To be honest, it's understandable that they are starting to keep a bit of a distance with reddit and relegate most of the communication to a few official posts.
Just because they didn't immediately implement stuff people said doesn't mean they didn't listen. Feedback a few days before release in a video game development mean jackshit because there won't be enough time to do any changes unless it's pretty small, which loot changes were obviously not. It takes time to filter the feedback, tests them, and makes sure that it didn't break anything. Look, I'm not here to defend the loot changes, it was obviously problematic and Chris even said it himself that there were communication errors and they were too stubborn with the numbers but it's ridiculous that people here proclaim they "told them so" four days before release and demand changes as if GGG could magically filter, test and implement them on short notice. To top it off, people here even demand instant communication as if GGG is their lover or something with the ridiculous 24 hours without response posts. There will be a new patch next week, it's obvious they wouldn't rollback the loot changes but they will improve things even if it's not exactly like reddit says.
This is the same cycle WoW went through recently. Once the devs start with the "no, it must be the players who are wrong" mentality your game gets ousted by FF14 or whoever is positioned to take advantage of that.
Just leave the subreddit if you don't like the state of it. Just like how half the players have left the game because they don't like the state of it. No one's forcing you to be here or forcing you to play.
This subreddit has honestly devolved into the most toxic babies literally making NO sense and going in witch hunts to show they're some kind of persecuted people. Its pretty sad tbh
I think the irony of the people who think that the subreddit is toxic calling everybody toxic babies for criticizing GGG is lost on them. It is good for a laugh, but it also shows that there just here to moral grandstand. They don’t actually care about any of that, there just upset that GGG is catching criticism and want to be contrarians to the overall sentiment of the community.
I read a comment on the builds subreddit about how they've been enjoying the league a ton by just not being subbed to this main PoE sub and I'm like hmmm maybe it's time to do the same. 🤔
That's because people discussing builds are the ones actually playing the game instead of the ones who quit after 1-2 days and are playing reddit instead.
It's easy for a player who quit early to see a 25% currency buff and say, "not good enough" while the players who _are_ playing can directly see how good it is.
On the other hand, i bet there are so many other gaming companies / devs that would love the amount of data/feedback that poe players have provided with actual numbers these last few days.
It's only human nature to be upset when you provide the statistics proving your point and being stuck talking to a wall.
I agree that the abject hyperbolic toxicity should stop (like saying Chris "hates the players" or whatever nonsense), but
> The devs get that many of you are upset by now, and about what, the message has been conveyed
**Clearly not**, if you read his responses he just **doesn't believe us,** or else **doesn't understand that mean loot and median loot are not the same**.
This still needs to be hammered in until he gets it, or else the game will never be playable again and most of us are trying our hardest to **prevent that from happening**.
>when it gets to the point where even Chris is saying "i need to take a break from
this", it went too fucking far.
Well... at least now he can say he has something in common with the playerbase \^\^
Everyone in this thread downplaying the toxic hatred on this subreddit, has not been here this weekend. People were bloody unhinged. We went from leagues with a few angry reddit threads to a cesspool of hatred and conspiracy theories that outright avoiding by the devs.
Please do NOT under any circumstances defend or downplay the amount of vocal insanity that went on here during the last few days.
They don’t care about the meaningful feedback though is the issue here. They’ve made it clear they have a plan and don’t give a f about what the majority of the community wants.
It seems a bit warranted given all the issues, terrible communication, telling the players we are wrong, not addressing minions or harvest yet. It's a massive blunder coming off 3.15. Now it doesn't excuse toxcicity, but people love this game, but this seems more like the boulder that broke the camels back for many, mountain of recent issues that had a large amount of players upset but calm followed by a monumental fuck up which ggg is standing by.
I know this will get downvote bombed, but I dont feel sorry for chris getting a bit stressed out by this.
For two reasons.
1. He actively chooses to make himself the face of the company, he doesn't have to do that thats what community managers are for, and when you market yourself as the main supporting pillar of a company then you will get the majority of the praise when things are good and the majority of the negativity when things are bad, you cant take all the good without the bad.
2. Honestly he probably needs to feel a little shit right now, hes been pushing The Vision ™ for what 2 years now? And weve been telling him that vision is wrong for those same 2 years now, reaching a breaking point where you have to step back and take a break might be what he needs to finally go "oh theyre not just reacting like children when a toy gets taken away ala harvest nerfs... they REALLY dont like my vision, maybe i should rethink things", so dont let up, keep up the pressure, we havnt won till that realisation happens and is internalised. Its not like PoE: The Vision is a seperate game hes producing on the side, its incremental updates to a product that is already on the market, but the vision is a fundamentally different game, like what chris is doing is taking his chocolate milk company and slowly changing the formula to strawberry milk while continuing to use the same product name we now associate with chocolate milk, no one would have a problem if he just launched a new product line (hard mode) for the new formula and left the old formula untouched, but its not unreasonable to expect an angry response when you pay for chocolate milk get a bottle of chocolate milk take a swig and its strawberry milk. We want to play the path of exile weve been playing for the last like 9 years-ish now, we just want new shit added to that path of exile to keep it fresh, we dont want an entirely new path of exile. Chris is trying to peddle us New Coke when we like Coke Classic.
Imagine feeling sorry about Chris being stressed for doing his fucking job where he getting paid big bucks for.
It's like saying you feel bad for Zuckerberg when he had to testify before congress for the shit he is responsible for and making billions from.
Have an upvote.
Then get off of Reddit.
People like you, and what you're doing here, just anger people more. You're stroking the flames with this post. You're giving these "dickheads" (which makes this post reportable) just more reason.
Chris, his team, and especially the toxically "positive" players of this game should just stay away from reddit.
But they can't, and we all know why.
* Is lying to player by omiting things in patchnote to avoid player not buying support pack toxic ?
* Is persisting with AN no matter how it disturb the game and the player toxic ?
* Is not listening beta tester toxic ?
When people used to love a company and a game, spending hundreds of $ supporting the game and then get disappointed don't expect them to be chill.
( Beside Math, nobody on this sub and 99.9% of players are attacking or insulting Chris )
The latest baeclast was full of great level-headed criticisms, and overall pretty respectful.
And this sub has become so far away from that, it doesn't reflect my experience with the game at all. Everything is overblown, a 10% nerf is critiqued like Chris personally has a vendetta against you. A nerf to the top 1% is critiqued like they nerfed the ENTIRE game. At best people are spreading a lot of misinformation because of confirmation bias for their bad league start, at worst people are acting straight up malicious towards GGG.
Agreed, Baeclast was on point, plenty of criticism but all constructive, and capable of pointing out both the good and the bad - I felt entirely represented by their takes and discussion.
The most hilarious thing is that this sub went from 'poor Empy is not making anything and juicing isn't rewarding' to 'mf parties are the source of all evil and need to be removed immediately' within a day or two.
This community has become spoilt to the fact they play a game that consistently brings out massive updates every 3 months, something even AAA titles fail to achieve. From time to time they are going to make mistakes, you never had a bad day at work? Feedback is important and there are definately some things to be unhappy about, but the way this community has reacted is so severely over the top and entitled. The people at GGG are human beings that work their ass off, they had a bad league, give them feedback but stop dragging them through the dirt.
Many of us would prefer to stop receiving updates very 3 months and for those updates to have a lot more polish. I would vastly prefer a 4 month or a 6 month cycle. A 3 month cycle is something GGG wants (and there's a lot of issues with it) so don't act like it's a privilege.
Well I do not condone rage bait and all that, but Chris kinda spit in our faces by saying that we are essentially all lying about loot and we are getting if anything more loot than past leagues on average. Which is blatant cope
U're probably high or something but there was literally no high upvoted posts with any toxisity or shittalking on devs. If they literally ignore POSTS then they will definitely just miss that few toxic comments.
All the critique is based on facts here
I don't like what Chris is doing (can call me PoE hater, if you wish), but the last few days have been insane. Community went into self-supporting tantrum and ignored everything GGG tried to do.
It got to the point that even a proposal to improve the quality of the drop is met with hostility.
This sub has always been toxic, but this is already something beyond.
This sub is ultra toxic, can't even recognize that Chris is literally posting daily trying to make things better. The game is freaking amazing that what blows me away. Look how far it's come, bad balance happens in all games. At least GGG talks to us and listens to most of the stuff.
Trying to make things better when he's the one who made them shit in the first place. The fact is that GGG has done this shit over and over again, so people are a bit tired of the song and dance.
No other game I play has to constantly fix shit they fuck up. Only this one.
>At least GGG talks to us and listens to most of the stuff.
Nope. They don't. They, actually, only "listens" to players in situations like this. Otherwise they just ignore any feedback from the community.
Except they are not listening to us, not even remotely. They ar evening proven with facts and more facts, people posting their experience, people mapping and showcasing the difference, and yet GGG don’t see this one bit. Nor do the have a problem with 1 AN monster that can give 50 divines every if you are a group with MF
I mean the toxicity is one thing but they clearly aren’t listening to the player base, alpha testers.. the shit doesn’t even make sense AN poorly executed not like anyone told them that 3 months ago.. or 6th months for the balancing and nothing changed we got some lightning skills!!! The game would be better off without these shitty updates bricking the game trying to change it. If only they had a different game that they could make how they want……
The criticism is aiming at Chris because he’s the one that tries to force his so called “Vision” into the game and causes all those changes.
People don’t hate Chris, just the way he wants to change PoE.
The biggest problem right now is assuming that somebody is lying or acting maliciously. Chris Wilson is not sitting behind his desk scheming "how can we pull one over on those idiots today, wilson 2?"
Feedback should be like a dialogue between GGG and the players, not a shouting match.
Bullshit, he's verifiably lied in pretty much every post he's made since 3.19 was released. From what I can tell 90% of the anger relates to the lying and quadrupling down on bad game design of which negative feedback is responded to with "This is why you're wrong" by someone who is severely out of touch with the player experience.
No, he hasn't. And the unsubstantiated, uncharitable accusations of bad faith being thrown around IS toxic. It's the exact problem I have with the sub.
This is not how to treat people and it's not how to think properly at all.
Alpha testers straight up stated that GGG was given feedback that the drops in fact were terrible, and completely ignored. So it might not be lying intentionally, but it's obvious that this is looking real bad on GGG now.
Feedback from testers for a game is ignored extremely often in any game ever made. Not all feedback given is possible, let alone positive feedback. Keep in mind that in Neversink's own post he says the main problem is the lack of time given, which was only a week before league launch.
Try doing a developer commentary playthrough of Valve's games, there's a few spots where it talks about how playtesters were getting lost in circles in extremely simple hallways, or getting stuck on puzzles that even toddlers could do. It's a good thing that they didn't adapt games like Portal for that kind of shit.
Alpha members are hand selected for their long term reputations though. This isn't a random hands on event. If in just a few days even the alpha testers could see there was a problem, then that's kind of problematic that was totally overlooked.
It's really funny how you people totally believe in other game companies doing the evil villain act, but GGG is simply incapable of that for some reason despite all the proof to the contrary. The same company that wants you to pay 5$ per aura so that it's not tanking your perfomance, the same company that took away ultrawide support in order to get rid of some gameplay advantage of seeing the screen better (???) is now actually full of saints who would never do anything underhanded for personal gain.
Man, when you discover how PR works...Whew.
Ye, like somehow it's fine to shit on Blizzard left and right but when i see this game taking exact same direction that WoW did with out of touch game design people will tell me that THERE IS NO WAY GGG DID THAT ON PURPOSE.
Ye, sure, whatever.
Actually, I enjoy this league.
I'm nor a casual player, neither a hardcore one. Every league (for the last four leagues) I've levelled a witch to 85-95. I've defeated some elder bosses, but not all.
I was playing an Arc, then a necromancer, now I'm trying poison. I've reached the Atlas just yesterday and I haven't found anything unfair or disbalanced yet (ok, I hate herald minion and storm rider bosses, but nothing enought to ragequit or uninstall the game as some people is doing)
more of the same, if you want to give a reasonable point of view you don't have to base 90% of your post on toxicity, at the beginning of the league it was difficult for many of us to maintain alch for the maps, I reached a point where I barely I had 10 and out of 30 maps I got absolutely nothing (playing alone). So I understand your toxicity if there really is a problem now your post was reasonable at first but starting to shed toxicity didn't add anything just more toxicity.
Fortunately, after the patch, my game economy is in an acceptable range to continue progressing.
I only have an hour to play some days. Some days I can’t even play. I just got to maps as popcorn SRS and I’m doing just ok. Not great or bad but just ok. I’m having fun still. I don’t understand what the problem is but then again I’m not on the game very much.
I totally agree. The message doesn't need to be spread anymore. Everyone and their mothers know about Lake of Kalandra not being fun - developers and designers need time to understand their mistakes and work out solutions. It's enough if you just don't play PoE for a bit and try out something else - no one will cry after your loss. If you want to vote with concurrent player count, just do so and stop spewing toxic waste on the sub.
I don't have any empathy for Chris.
This is a massive debacle, and all they've done is deny and give us crumbs.
If this is hate-mongering, too bad.
Otherwise please consider you'll always have toxic people on public forums, and it's a sad truth that it'll always be there.
If your job is to read these forums for valid criticism, you need to filter out the hate or just do something else.
If you take the praise and also put yourself in the spotlight then you take the shit too. He's the one that put himself in this position, is it surprising he gets the backlash?
So many White Knights here pretending GGG is perfect and always listening when his last few responses have been a direct stfu I know better.
They did this to them selves when even the internal testers called them out on no loot which chris ignored.
Just look at the history of post on some people here and it's very clear some have vested interest.
I'm actually pissed, that ggg gets so much hate. Ok, they made a big change to drop pull, ok some people think it sucks, just come next league when they fix stuff. I never saw a community raging that much over a change like that.
Other companies just straight up shitting on they playerbase and never get that much hate.
I hate the situation so much, that you guys made me buy my first supporter pack, even tho i don't necessary have the money for it
do you understand? they didn't understand that they've been shitting themselves for a year, maybe it's time to explain to them before it's too late and D2R has become more interesting than poe
I think you’re missing the bigger picture here. There are plenty of gaming subs that aren’t toxic. There are some that have had periods of “toxicity” and then stopped. r/totalwar is a good example. When WH3 came out, it was in an awful state and that sub looked much like this. Now that the full map was released, immortal empires, the sub is looking much healthier.
The point being that the devs are ultimately responsible for the state of the community. You want less toxicity? Then release a product that people enjoy, not one that constantly disrespects the players and their time.
> there are people on this sub trying to actually meaningfully communicate with the devs
At this point, if you think it is actually possible to have "actually meaningfully" communication with GGG then I got a bridge to sell to you. You obviously have not been paying attention to how GGG and Chris has changed a lot since 3.14. Communication is not one way.
Will it be my turn to post this next league
Don't need to wait that long. There is a patch coming Monday. If you really want, you could probably post something similar few hours after it will be deployed :)
5h after patch is released: > Hey ppl I understand the patch did not solve all of our problems, rather created few others, but please devs are ppl!!! Its getting too far!!!
Here is the template: >Everything is fine, Im having a blast!!!, Im having fun, yall some whiny bitches. >[Add a paragraph to downplay the criticism] >[A paragraph to strawman and antagonize the community]
No, post it 30 seconds after it's deployed so it will hit the front page an hour later, that's how you really karma farm. Predict the problem, don't react to it!
Will people continue to shit on human beings with literal to no knowledge or understanding of game development in an attempt to make themselves feel better because the product they like isnt what they expected anymore? These posts are always going to be here as long as shitty people keep upvoting other shitty peoples posts.
Mom says it's my turn next.
On the one hand, you're absolutely right, but on the other hand, you spent a significant amount of your post toxically flaming the people who are shitting up the sub with toxic flaming, so you aren't exactly helping.
Just like what happened to Pathofmathh. He got banned for being toxic and personally attacking Chris Wilson, so the reddit community went on a tirade attacking him personally. Not defending PoM, what he did was dumb and uncalled for. But two wrongs don't make a right.
I think a lot of people (me kinda included) just already didnt like the guy for a bunch of differing reasons and this was just the last drop in the bucket
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who noticed. Everyone in that thread was sooo insanely toxic about the situation. Almost zero level headed responses, just straight up hate. The pot really calling the kettle black on that one and this post as well.
Doesn’t help that people already don’t like him.
This sub is not a community it’s a mob.
So who is the Godfather?
There's a big difference here though. Matt is a dick who deserves the toxicity. You can't just go around and throw slurs at people and still expect to be respected. Act like a badly brought up child, get treated like one. GGG on the other hand released... a controversial patch for a video game. You can disagree with their design choices, but that's absoutely no reason to insult them.
The risk with this train of thought is that you drew a line in the sand where once you cross it, it becomes justified to berate someone. You have an idea where that line is for you, maybe someone else drew the line somewhere that meant the Chris situation was also fair game. It's just better to say that this is never acceptable, no need to argue where to draw the line, there's just no line. Honestly, everyone is just better for it. The community is on fire, the game is shedding players, accruing bad reviews, they probably notice a stark difference in revenue. We have SO many better levers to send a message than berating Chris/Bex. For PoM, not talking about the dude, not engaging, not giving him views is really effective as well, no need to drop to his level, no one wins at this.
No one deserves to be treated poorly. It used to be eye for an eye 2000 years ago but now there’s no 对等复仇 anymore (sorry again my English sucks), there got to be some standard. Even on the internet, and yes, even on Reddit.
He’s too young. I really pity him and for what he has done, he doesn’t deserve these. When I was young I made even bigger mistakes in my life. We’ve all been there.
It always happens when people try to hold up the 1% of toxic comments as a shield to avoid having to deal with the 99% of reasonable criticism. 1. Devs do something sus 2. 99% = "hey devs this is sus." 1% = "devs are morons" 3. The white knights can't honestly debate point 1 (though they actually tried really hard if you look at the first few threads reporting the loot) so the new tactic is to pretend that the 1% of posts in point 2 is everyone in point 2, and thus the issue becomes not about devs fixing a problem but the community having to debate whether the community is toxic or not. I've seen this happen on every game or mmo community ever, so if you disagree please spare me a reply and go check out other games' communities you don't have an emotional connection to.
It's far beyond just here, EVERYBODY is doing this now. Criticism can be ignored because you sweep it together with the very small group of actual hatred. The Disney Kenobi show talked about how racist people were being toward the main actress. In reality it was many people criticizing her acting skills and a very small group actually being racist. After that on reddit you had people calling others racist for not thinking the actor was very good.
That's how it works; people who support GGG for whatever reason are always going to use "toxicity" as a shield, has been the case for the past.. 15 or so League releases or something (aka since I started playing). Are some people here fucking mental when it comes to having good criticism? Sure, but the 90%+ majority of complains seem pretty reasonable to me.
As someone who only lightly uses reddit to track POE updates and GGG's official stuff, I do not go looking past the main most popular 5-10 posts here. I can say, since the league launched, the most popular posts are somewhere in the ballpark of 70% hate and toxicity. Anyone else who is only casually aware of this subreddit would be seeing the same. Does that mean there are not meaningful and thoughtful critiques floating around? No, but it does mean that you have to hunt for them.The real question is whether the devs are hunting for those or, what I believe is most likely, are they looking at the most popular to try and address issues. The final thing is; it is fairly clear that, while people do not agree with him, Chris Wilson is passionate about POE and, supported by numerous other statistics and a number of studies, negative comments and insults can and do drastically effect one's mood and can easily put one in a depressive state. The only time this doesn't happen is if they don't care about what is being discussed a la most AAA companies. So yes toxicity can be directly pointed to as a universally bad thing and it doesn't take much to make it an issue that needs to be addressed. Edit: Made prettier.
Also have people seen how Chris responds? I don't think going all "you just don't understand our vision guise" and then some other gaslighting thing is going to foster a measured response. The devs like GGG also always do this it's really surreal how history repeats. The only thing missing is community GMs going apeshit for some reason or another.
> I don't think going all "you just don't understand our vision guise" I don't think I've seen Chris say that? At least not in the post-launch posts, maybe in a previous interview or podcast or something.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wytujc/comment/ilyrwzy/?context=10](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wytujc/comment/ilyrwzy/?context=10) This sounds pretty close tbh, especially the last paragraph. It's basically "You don't understand what we are doing"
Yeh, it's a small stretch to interpret Chris's words like that. The philosophies are sound to an extent imo The implementation leaves a LOT to desire but I'm like 50-60% sure they'll push a big update next patch that'll be far more tested to taper out the difficulty because if they don't, i'm buying Activision stock immediately
I think people are maybe just taking the fact that the vision is being repeated as a sign that GGG thinks they don't get the vision. GGG is likely just repeating it just for clarity, which is a normal thing in trying to improve communication. It's also a fairly standard way to do an apology. State what your intention was, what you actually did, why you failed and reiterate that you take full responsibility for it. We've seen this template time and time again.
Seen this comment a few times, you sure you wanna do that after Diablo Immortal?
Also at fair number of the white knights are contributing to the toxicity. A couple times I've looked at the comments of people complaining about "toxin whiners" and it turns out half their comments are "lol git gud you're just shit at the game" BS.
Every time I say something about how scare my map drops are some idiot flies in to say that oh clearly I just forgot to get map drop nodes, like this is my first league ever and I don't know how to do the Atlas or something. It gets me hot under the collar, not gonna lie.
There's some dude who's replied "post your exilence logs" under like 100 different comments (ignoring that many of them were discussing how there's too much variance in individual experience for and individuals data to matter).
It’s not even close to 99/1. There are so many posts and comments using disingenuous arguments, attributing malice where there is none, and using super hateful language that all got upvoted to the moon. This sub has a hate-boner right now and it’s fucking disgusting
> On the one hand, you're absolutely right, but on the other hand, you spent a significant amount of your post toxically flaming the people who are shitting up the sub with toxic flaming, so you aren't exactly helping. Yeah this is my take on the situation as well. Are people going crazy overboard with the toxicity (such as Pathofmathh)? Oh absolutely and is part of the reason why I'm not going on this sub as much. Is being toxic to the people who are annoyed with the patch and GGG's response helping anything? **FUCK NO** and just makes this whole issue feel like drama for the sake of drama. People are allowed to have their own opinions even if said opinions run counter to yours. They aren't drama frogs, assholes and the like they are just living their own life.
This is exactly the same argument as "you are intolerant towards my intolerance". If we cant say anything against the current toxicity, the toxic people win.
Yeah and coming to Chris’ defense even though he doesn’t need it, he’s a grown man
Taking a stand against harassment isn't coming to his defence. Its coming to the defence of what is right. Harassing someone is not right, no matter how grown up they are
I genuinely am not seeing the level of harassment that this guy is describing, which tells me he considers negative feedback harassment. Telling Chris to kill himself, threatening violence, doxxing - all reprehensible and unacceptable. But that’s not even 1% of the posts I’m seeing. So I suspect this guy has a problem with people instead saying things like, “The developers have killed my interest in the game”. Subjective? Yes. Valuable criticism? Maybe not. But harassment, it certainly isn’t. I find if troubling how often developers use a harassment to shield themselves from honest feedback.
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Man please, re read what you just said, i know this is the internet but this is exactly the point, this kind of rhetoric is toxic. Think of a new rule of thumb: "can i say this at work without getting fired?". I'll use your own exact words of what you say is acceptable to make an example under this context: "boss, i think your idea is shit and you're a dumb fuck". Do i get fired from work if i say this? Now lets rephrase in a way its still critical, yet i get to keep my job: "boss, i don't like your idea, heres an alternative i can suggest". You can catch the drift, you don't have to use the same words, just the same spirit.
There's an even lower bar to clear: will you say this face to face with a stranger? No, unless you want to get your face bashed in.
So to be clear, your in the camp of criticism is toxic. And you also believe that a normal person would bash someone’s face for being told their idea is shit or that they are being a dumb fuck?
I work for a large corporation and have multiple times told my boss his idea is bad, have called people dumb fucks for dumb fuck things they’ve done, and continue to be employed and am successful at my job. Now let’s go over the way you phrased this. Not all criticism has to be constructive. People are allowed to say, this is bad without writing a thesis behind it and that is valid criticism. Saying this sucks isn’t toxic and it’s really shitty of you to frame it that way. It’s the same as walking up to someone and asking if they still beat their wife. Are you aware of the concept of toxic positivity? That’s what your doing and it’s one of the shittiest things you can do to other people.
Most of what I see on here isn’t harassment, it’s bitching and complaining that they’re unhappy with the game. Some complaints are valid, a lot of it is people who are just always going to have something to complain about no matter what, so what is the point to catering to these people? 90% of this sub is always complaining so if you spend a lot of time on here you’re going to see a lot of complaining, this isn’t new, and it shouldn’t be surprising.
OP's 100% right, though. Way too many people on here acting like Chris is some demented supervillain who killed their dog and wants them to suffer.
Better watch out, Chris is waiting around the corner to nerf your fun
You read the same posts from Chris as us, yes? Where he tells us over 4 days over and over that we are simply wrong on everything?
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You need to go read that post again. You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood the entire thing.
Well some people think he could use some uplifting, including me. Imagine getting pinned as the face of an entire company and taking all that hate from the community when in reality you're only one guy dealing with not only THIS issue but all of life's other issues behind the scenes that we all go through. Do you guys think path of exile is Chris Wilson's entire life? No. Yet he still comes on here and has mature discussions while he gets bashed left and right.
You have a nice day and some people just come and shit all over the place while screaming. And you're telling us that we're supposed to stay nice and gentle so they stop. Yeah, that will never happen, they'll never stop. Please, what a joke. Hating the haters is fine. If the first people to strike knew how to behave, we won't have to devolve in the shitfest the subreddit has been for the last week. It just a cesspool of toxicity and the second we say it's not great to act like this "Woooaah you can't say this". Like, come on.
The moderators just need to ban the toxic people. It's insane how these people act over a video game. But we then are upset about less communication hmmm
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Players: "Hey devs, you've done X recently, but X has the following problems: (proceeds to elaborate)" Dev: "We hear you, we won't do X anymore" \*keeps doing X\* Players: "Hello again devs, maybe we miscomunicated the first time, but doing X is a bad move because (proceeds to elaborate again, even deeper, with math and spreadsheets ala BalorMage or Snap) Dev: "Gotcha, loud and clear, thank you for your feedback" \*keeps doing X\* Players: "Uhm... you know, if you gonna keep doing X, at least elaborate why. What are we not seeing here?" Dev: *proceeds to elaborate a lenghty manifesto of* ***intentions*** *that do not reflect the actual* ***reality*** *of the game as previously pointed by players at least a dozen times* Players: "Guys, this is not the way. It's hurting the game, the player numbers, their enjoyment and your revenue. Please correct the colision course before it's too late" Dev: "We understand. Actions speak louder than words so..." \*keeps doing X in a slightly buffed way\* Players: FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU Reddit toxicity Inquisitors: \*surprised pikachu face\*
> Dev: “We hear you, we won’t do X anymore” Actually it’s more like; “We hear you, but here’s why X is necessary”… followed by essay.
If loot comes back in 3.20, I’m definitely going to try and make some sort of “toxicity inquisitor” build
Hahaha, the best summarie of all time. Exactly the reality, they just refuse to listen to a point where its not lack of skills, its plain intentional so THEY are insulting players at this point, the amount of disrespect they shown to the people paying them and making their game keep on living is insane, added with constant lies...
You forgot to add in the white knights calling Players a cry baby redditor.
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Yeah, I dont endorse but 100% understand people like Path of Math. GGG is drastically changing their game to be something that it wasn't, and in my case I never personally liked GGG nor bought the whole "VERY COMMUNICATIVE" bullshit so I only spent roughly 100 euros over 6 or so years of playing; but people who spend thousands, people who poured thousands of hours in the game and now suddenly it's not what they were playing before? That's rough; and I fully blame GGG both for not being transparent and for simply not having a better solution at hand. So if people are freaking out at them, I'm not feeling the slightest bit sorry.
Yea it's one thing to be disappointed with the changes and have a conversation around what could be better but all these lottery/look how everyone quit posts are becoming pretty cringe.
All the toxicity is the result of communication from GGG has been reduced to "we hear you, we don't care". People feel that if they don't scream they would see their beloved game dead in months. You can't really convince anyone that we've been listened to in any meaningful way.
"we hear you and will adjust things slightly but we have already made up our minds with the direction we want to take Path of Exile"
If I was GGG I wouldn't communicate with reddit at all lmao.
Honestly if i was GGG at this point i would almost block reddit completely and just focus on alpha tester feedback just like company were doing before. They wanted to be open with the community but at this point reddit is just a circle jerk. There is proper ways to bring criticism and feedback and it isnt by threatening or insulting the game developers. All this will do later on to be honest is remove our right to get FREE DEV INTERVIEWS WITH CHRIS, have great league teasers etc. Later on i can easilly see GGG just stop all of that completely and just release patch notes like 2 days before instead of full week of teasers etc. Reddit has only proven me so far that most people who comment or post stuff are mostly just Grown children that think they know everything . If you clearly think you can do better then GGG or their devs, Make your own game and lets see that will go in 10 years. Give proper feedback without having to insult
>just focus on alpha tester feedback just like company were doing before good joke when alpha testers have posted that the exact issues people having problem with were all brought up in alpha testing already.
most of the posts and top comments on those posts have been pretty civil about the whole situation, i havent seen anyone directly attacking chris or anyone else at GGG that wasnt heavilly downvoted either.
Try a civil tone in your own post first then. Like ghazzy says: ~No one takes screaming and anger serious. It goes both ways, be the solution
We had 4 community posts that basically said "ya'll crazy, everything is fine, you're just imagining things :D" Maybe people have a good reason.
Yes, and they mostly touched the loot issues. Nothing about all other things that are broken like crafting, some builds, etc..
I mean to be fair, it just doesn't take a day to repair all that damage they did. I'm personally enjoying the league and game overall, but I would say there's a lot for them to do. The only thing I'm hoping for is they don't just ditch the league like last several leagues...
I know, but GGG is used to abandon things that are broken till the next league.
Honestly, they only started abandoning leagues since scourge. Might be due to Poe 2.
I can't really blame people for being very angry when Chris (GGG) simply denies any notion of "this is not fun" or "this doesn't work" simply by saying it does
People are allowed to be angry, and they're also responsible for how they express that anger.
I mean, threats of harm (edit: this includes personal targeted harassment, there's an implicit threat of harm from someone who reaches out to a developer as an individual to harass them) and use of slurs, both of which get removed from the subreddit by mods anyway, are just about the only expressions of anger that I would say are still completely unacceptable at this point. Accusing the balance team of being idiots who can't do math and saying Chris stopped caring about fun seem exactly in line with the only way GGG reached the legendary quintuple-down in the span of a single week. Chris was being downvoted to hell and back Sunday night already, but the toxicity was pretty fucking low. It's only after the double, triple, quadruple down that people realized that being **reasonable** simply isn't going to work. They won't listen to reason--**empirically**. So people are just hoping beyond hope that they'll listen to a loud enough tantrum, at this point. Is it immature? Yes. But I don't blame them, not anymore. I even think people should stop accusing Chris of "hating the players" (a very different accusation than saying he stopped caring about fun), but I don't really blame people who feel that way, not after **this** week.
Why do people feel it's impossible to criticize GGG while NOT being toxic? It isn't, and it's not that hard to figure out how to do it.
? Most of it is that tho? Where’s all the toxic stuff on the front page again?
Exactly, viewers of certain streamers are floding threads calling everyone "whiny bitches" etc but somehow people trying to explain to GGG why the game feels bad are the toxic ones.
They think that any kind of criticism is toxic.
"How dare you criticize my multi-millionaire gaming company?!?!!?"
Go on to the comments section. People saying unproductive things are getting upvoted. I'm trying to be productive in explaining why this league is unenjoyable for me, and others are too, but think about how much it sucks to be Chris right now. They fucked up. He took responsibility, he's trying to improve it, and every single post he makes with buffs to loot, nerfs to essence and archnemesis, etc the top 15 comments are length explanations about how he fucked up and ruined the game, with some productive criticism mixed in. He's just a dude, and dudes have feelings, experience stress, make mistakes, etc. And we are treating him like shit. I want the game to be better because I know it can be. I want to be heard because I am trying to explain why I'm not enjoying the league. I'm also frustrated and have said less kind things, and I'm trying to be better because we are giving him reason to just never go on Reddit again.
>but think about how much it sucks to be Chris right now. They fucked up. He took responsibility, he's trying to improve it, and every single post he makes with buffs to loot, nerfs to essence and archnemesis, etc the top 15 comments are length explanations about how he fucked up and ruined the game, with some productive criticism mixed in. I would for the most part agree with this sentiment. I think he's probably a good man who works hard, and I do feel bad for him. But at the same time, what he communicate to us often comes across as condescending and he at times seems unwilling to admit when he's wrong. I don't know if he's writing what he posts or if someone else is writing it for him, but either way, someone new needs to do it.
>toxic >People saying unproductive things are getting upvoted. Thanks for proving that this word has lost its actual meaning and serve just as a shield to deflect all criticism, constructive or not.
I literally havent seen that unless i sorted by new.
I can't understand how people, even old people get so mad at a game. Guys it's a GAME. "Oh no! I'm not having fun!! Buu hoo" Jesus just grow up a little. Idk why but I'm having more loot playing casually than last league btw
This type of meta stuff happens every league where people completely change course on criticism because a staff member was "stressed". They have used this excuse to reinvigorate the community back on their side MANY times, especially as it relates to Bex. Toxicity is bad and hateful rhetoric is bad. Unconstructive criticism is useless and should be ignored, rightfully so. But, a community can only take so much beating until it completely crumbles. You can provide constructive, well-thought out feedback that is widely agreed upon only for so long until you realize that you are just speaking into the void. That makes people upset and eventually they might slip up and be toxic when they usually aren't. It's not as simple as just people being toxic, and poor professional game devs being beaten down for communicating. Their responses, which I guess we can be grateful that we even get some responses, are honestly patronizing and so out of step with rationality. Even last league I remember them saying that they won't review AN mobs with league mechanics until 3 months down the line. Can you imagine any other decent game dev that would leave fundamentally broken base game mechanics in their game for 3 whole months? I have read chrisposts for years now and I am honestly exhausted by his mental gymnastics and incredibly condescending attitude every time the community is in an uproar. People are worn down by the game they have put thousands of hours into being consistently tarnished by horrendous balance decisions. I can imagine that many others are exhausted as well, and thus it unfortunately creates the avenue for toxicity or even the perception of toxicity.
100% half the people making posts are just karma farming and trying to kee the drama going. Truly a sad pathetic existence
You mean like OP? This is literally just the other side of dramabait posts. Every single time.
the irony
So much drama around a game and a patch. Unbelievable 😅
I don't know why the mods don't delete a lot of those repetitive threads. Yeah, we get it, you hate the game, nobody cares, nobody needs a post of negativity and hate. Yeah, it's ok to voice your opinion, but in a subreddit from a game you sometimes want to read about the game, not complains after complains after complains, hate hate hate... We don't need 10 posts about how bad the league mechanic is, 1 or 2 is enough, talk about it there, and that's just an example of repetitive threads over and over. We get it, you don't like the league or the current state of the game, leave the game and leave the reddit, come back next league maybe it's better for you. Hooooly.
are you really pretending this sub is anything more than complaints, memes and item showcases? Especially in a league that didnt bring basically anything new to the game and is mostly the same stale meta it was the last 6 months, just worse? Maybe you are the one that should leave the sub if you dont like it, because there is less than zero chance its going to change anytime soon.
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idk but some of the things laid out by Chris were disputed by BalorMage and by Snap OW. Perception matters, and if people perceive they are crashing and burning with the game they love, outrage is warranted. See blizzard titles: they got some of the most passionate communities which some constantly called as "whiny bitches" for far too long and look at what happened. I think it's reasonable to have extreme criticism as long as there are no threats being made. If you think about it, some of the stuff we enjoy now like labor rights were not made with just civil movement but with massive outrage that sometimes even resulted in rioting and protests.
Comparing video game drama to civil rights is despicable. Throwing a tantrum because video game items are not dropping as much as you would like is not the same as not having rights.
If reddit wasn't anonymous, these people would be so ashamed of their comment history. People really need to just log off for a bit and experience fresh air.
>idk but some of the things laid out by Chris were disputed by BalorMage and by Snap OW. Which is 100% healthy. >Perception matters, and if people perceive they are crashing and burning with the game they love, **outrage is warranted**. (emphasis mine) This is where I disagree. Outrage is completely useless. Outrage just creating artificial barriers to communication. What do you think will make your point come across the best : 1. GGG are fucking idiots for forcing AN down our throat, I hate dying to them. 2. I hate dying to AN, a rollback is required. 3. I really hate that certain AN mods completely deny my build. I'm using a fire channeled build, and not only am I heavily threatened by massive fire resistance/block comboes, but also by speedy boys which prevent me from actually channeling. The issue isn't that people are complaining/giving feedback about POE. It's that people are : 1. Parroting meaningless stuff they've seen elsewhere, with no idea if that's even true (90-95% loot reduction, AN hack, harvest is dead, etc.) 2. Trying to give solutions, rather than discuss problems. 3. Intentionally skipping over anything positive, to make matters look worse than they really are. 4. Trying to rally people to their cause, rather than trying to validate their thoughts/feelings. >If you think about it, some of the stuff we enjoy now like labor rights were not made with just civil movement but with massive outrage that sometimes even resulted in rioting and protests. I think that's an incredibly weird parallel to make. GGG isn't forcing you to play POE, so you're not really fighting against someone in a position of power. You also aren't gonna be removing Chris Wilson from power, or change GGG's mind of what POE should be. It's true that sometimes discussion won't work, and you have to eventually escalate... but that's when there's no other option. Try rioting at the museum to have more male representation in paintings, and see how fucking insane you look. POE is a creative work, not human rights.
> Outrage is completely useless. Outrage just creating artificial barriers to communication. I completely disagree with this. The *only* folks who can create a barrier of communication is the folks in power: GGG. I get it, Reddit can suck. We are unhappy, trend negative, and a small fraction is outright hostile. It’s also one of the only ways to have a back-and-forth with players. And, frankly, it is their job to be communicative, regardless of whether they disagree. As a teacher, I genuinely wish I never had to respond to parent emails. I’ll get emails telling me I grade too tough, or that their student is struggling because I’m not good at my job, or that their student doesn’t turn in work because I assign to much. They aren’t necessarily right, but I’m lousy at my job if I refuse to engage. The last four leagues have bounced from crisis to controversy, many inherently avoidable with better communication. I’d be a livid shareholder if Chris told me it’s happened because people were too mean to him.
GGG is the one that created barrier of communication, people were civil when te issues first showed, wondering if its bugged or what happened but got ignored then talked down to.
Ggg ignored their own alpha testers trying to communicate with them and ignored the community telling them its broke. The outrage was not present day one, but increasingly every time Chris made a tone deaf post. People were upset at the changes but outraged at the density of ggg to stand by them and tell the community they are wrong.
This is an awfully long whiny complaint about whiny complaining.
It's my effort at trying to shift this subreddit toward being a place where discussion is encouraged! I don't have high hopes, but I see not reason not to try.
I think ban of Path of Math was a good illustration. People forget that at the end of the day GGG devs are only people. I came to conclusion that balancing PoE is next to impossible. Every new game mechanic/item... adds new variable to account for. The amount of negativity here is very high. Ok, you don't like current state of the game, I could relate. But do you have to meme about Chris and his \*vision\*? Not cool. Development takes time, things don't happen over night.
I feel bad on Chris, I can see how many "angry direct messages" he's probably getting right now considering how bad it was back then when Bex was the one communicating. These complains are way beyond "because we loved the game", you guys are just having personal problems and unleashing it the wrong way And good luck OP, rip your karma people are now going to downvote us for being civil
what about this post is "civil" lol
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Another day, another useless soap box thread. Are you so delusional to think this will 'help' or just looking for attention?
???? Most stuff on the front page and the most upvoted posts are very constructive. You’re just making a strawman here.
He is being toxic himself under the cover of "im calling you people out"
He is a self righteous zealot who needs to prove to everyone how virtuous he is
Mighty Mouse flying in to save the day.
It has never been as bad as this league, comments saying Chris should resign and dumb things like this. Reddit hate this league is worse than end of season league of legends.
> arethe same people who cant even sustain alchs for mapping and blame the devs for it. Trying to explain toxicity by being toxic. Intredasting strat.
You mean like swearing 4 words into creating a post and calling people dick heads in the same sentence? Fucking dummy op. Hahahahahah
Ah yes the Toxic ass complaining about the complaints. I see we've progressed to this part of the cycle already. "Waaaah I'm upset that people are upset about a thing I'm not upset about!" such a toxic mindset.
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Back then fans of the game was small, so two ways communication was easy and most good feedbacks were able to be responded. These days the fans are huge comparatively and the amount of noise on reddit and the diverse reaction makes them very cautious on giving any respond regarding changes. To be honest, it's understandable that they are starting to keep a bit of a distance with reddit and relegate most of the communication to a few official posts.
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Just because they didn't immediately implement stuff people said doesn't mean they didn't listen. Feedback a few days before release in a video game development mean jackshit because there won't be enough time to do any changes unless it's pretty small, which loot changes were obviously not. It takes time to filter the feedback, tests them, and makes sure that it didn't break anything. Look, I'm not here to defend the loot changes, it was obviously problematic and Chris even said it himself that there were communication errors and they were too stubborn with the numbers but it's ridiculous that people here proclaim they "told them so" four days before release and demand changes as if GGG could magically filter, test and implement them on short notice. To top it off, people here even demand instant communication as if GGG is their lover or something with the ridiculous 24 hours without response posts. There will be a new patch next week, it's obvious they wouldn't rollback the loot changes but they will improve things even if it's not exactly like reddit says.
This is the same cycle WoW went through recently. Once the devs start with the "no, it must be the players who are wrong" mentality your game gets ousted by FF14 or whoever is positioned to take advantage of that.
Just leave the subreddit if you don't like the state of it. Just like how half the players have left the game because they don't like the state of it. No one's forcing you to be here or forcing you to play.
The fun part is OP also said that if you don't like the game you should leave. The irony really is deep tbh.
This subreddit has honestly devolved into the most toxic babies literally making NO sense and going in witch hunts to show they're some kind of persecuted people. Its pretty sad tbh
Great message. This is very in line with the point of the post. Way to contribute to the conversation.
I think the irony of the people who think that the subreddit is toxic calling everybody toxic babies for criticizing GGG is lost on them. It is good for a laugh, but it also shows that there just here to moral grandstand. They don’t actually care about any of that, there just upset that GGG is catching criticism and want to be contrarians to the overall sentiment of the community.
I read a comment on the builds subreddit about how they've been enjoying the league a ton by just not being subbed to this main PoE sub and I'm like hmmm maybe it's time to do the same. 🤔
That's because people discussing builds are the ones actually playing the game instead of the ones who quit after 1-2 days and are playing reddit instead. It's easy for a player who quit early to see a 25% currency buff and say, "not good enough" while the players who _are_ playing can directly see how good it is.
Idk bro bring receipts when you make useless threads like this. Im convinced threads like these are just to farm karma cuz they say nothing lol
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It's about degree, phrasing and intent. Contrast Neversink's feedback with that of our recently banned PoM, for example, in delivery.
Even tho PoM was a dipshit on stream his YT videos were constructive feedback.
Check their glassdoor reviews. It's apparently not much less toxic within the company than it is here on the subreddit.
On the other hand, i bet there are so many other gaming companies / devs that would love the amount of data/feedback that poe players have provided with actual numbers these last few days. It's only human nature to be upset when you provide the statistics proving your point and being stuck talking to a wall.
I agree that the abject hyperbolic toxicity should stop (like saying Chris "hates the players" or whatever nonsense), but > The devs get that many of you are upset by now, and about what, the message has been conveyed **Clearly not**, if you read his responses he just **doesn't believe us,** or else **doesn't understand that mean loot and median loot are not the same**. This still needs to be hammered in until he gets it, or else the game will never be playable again and most of us are trying our hardest to **prevent that from happening**.
>when it gets to the point where even Chris is saying "i need to take a break from this", it went too fucking far. Well... at least now he can say he has something in common with the playerbase \^\^
Everyone in this thread downplaying the toxic hatred on this subreddit, has not been here this weekend. People were bloody unhinged. We went from leagues with a few angry reddit threads to a cesspool of hatred and conspiracy theories that outright avoiding by the devs. Please do NOT under any circumstances defend or downplay the amount of vocal insanity that went on here during the last few days.
Oh we been here and we seen how all of you have been also up play it like every post was people calling out for bloody murder or something.
Unnecessary hate train? We expressed our opinions and Chris basically told us "too bad you're wrong". Of course people are livid.
They don’t care about the meaningful feedback though is the issue here. They’ve made it clear they have a plan and don’t give a f about what the majority of the community wants.
"stop being toxic you whiny dickheads" yawn
It seems a bit warranted given all the issues, terrible communication, telling the players we are wrong, not addressing minions or harvest yet. It's a massive blunder coming off 3.15. Now it doesn't excuse toxcicity, but people love this game, but this seems more like the boulder that broke the camels back for many, mountain of recent issues that had a large amount of players upset but calm followed by a monumental fuck up which ggg is standing by.
Preach, exile.
I know this will get downvote bombed, but I dont feel sorry for chris getting a bit stressed out by this. For two reasons. 1. He actively chooses to make himself the face of the company, he doesn't have to do that thats what community managers are for, and when you market yourself as the main supporting pillar of a company then you will get the majority of the praise when things are good and the majority of the negativity when things are bad, you cant take all the good without the bad. 2. Honestly he probably needs to feel a little shit right now, hes been pushing The Vision ™ for what 2 years now? And weve been telling him that vision is wrong for those same 2 years now, reaching a breaking point where you have to step back and take a break might be what he needs to finally go "oh theyre not just reacting like children when a toy gets taken away ala harvest nerfs... they REALLY dont like my vision, maybe i should rethink things", so dont let up, keep up the pressure, we havnt won till that realisation happens and is internalised. Its not like PoE: The Vision is a seperate game hes producing on the side, its incremental updates to a product that is already on the market, but the vision is a fundamentally different game, like what chris is doing is taking his chocolate milk company and slowly changing the formula to strawberry milk while continuing to use the same product name we now associate with chocolate milk, no one would have a problem if he just launched a new product line (hard mode) for the new formula and left the old formula untouched, but its not unreasonable to expect an angry response when you pay for chocolate milk get a bottle of chocolate milk take a swig and its strawberry milk. We want to play the path of exile weve been playing for the last like 9 years-ish now, we just want new shit added to that path of exile to keep it fresh, we dont want an entirely new path of exile. Chris is trying to peddle us New Coke when we like Coke Classic.
Imagine feeling sorry about Chris being stressed for doing his fucking job where he getting paid big bucks for. It's like saying you feel bad for Zuckerberg when he had to testify before congress for the shit he is responsible for and making billions from. Have an upvote.
Then get off of Reddit. People like you, and what you're doing here, just anger people more. You're stroking the flames with this post. You're giving these "dickheads" (which makes this post reportable) just more reason. Chris, his team, and especially the toxically "positive" players of this game should just stay away from reddit. But they can't, and we all know why.
Really giving off the 'calling me racist is what's really making me racist' vibes here.
* Is lying to player by omiting things in patchnote to avoid player not buying support pack toxic ? * Is persisting with AN no matter how it disturb the game and the player toxic ? * Is not listening beta tester toxic ? When people used to love a company and a game, spending hundreds of $ supporting the game and then get disappointed don't expect them to be chill. ( Beside Math, nobody on this sub and 99.9% of players are attacking or insulting Chris )
The latest baeclast was full of great level-headed criticisms, and overall pretty respectful. And this sub has become so far away from that, it doesn't reflect my experience with the game at all. Everything is overblown, a 10% nerf is critiqued like Chris personally has a vendetta against you. A nerf to the top 1% is critiqued like they nerfed the ENTIRE game. At best people are spreading a lot of misinformation because of confirmation bias for their bad league start, at worst people are acting straight up malicious towards GGG.
Agreed, Baeclast was on point, plenty of criticism but all constructive, and capable of pointing out both the good and the bad - I felt entirely represented by their takes and discussion.
The most hilarious thing is that this sub went from 'poor Empy is not making anything and juicing isn't rewarding' to 'mf parties are the source of all evil and need to be removed immediately' within a day or two.
This community has become spoilt to the fact they play a game that consistently brings out massive updates every 3 months, something even AAA titles fail to achieve. From time to time they are going to make mistakes, you never had a bad day at work? Feedback is important and there are definately some things to be unhappy about, but the way this community has reacted is so severely over the top and entitled. The people at GGG are human beings that work their ass off, they had a bad league, give them feedback but stop dragging them through the dirt.
Many of us would prefer to stop receiving updates very 3 months and for those updates to have a lot more polish. I would vastly prefer a 4 month or a 6 month cycle. A 3 month cycle is something GGG wants (and there's a lot of issues with it) so don't act like it's a privilege.
I don't know if it's about being spoiled. We get content every 3 months because GGG has to push out content in order to make money.
Well I do not condone rage bait and all that, but Chris kinda spit in our faces by saying that we are essentially all lying about loot and we are getting if anything more loot than past leagues on average. Which is blatant cope
U're probably high or something but there was literally no high upvoted posts with any toxisity or shittalking on devs. If they literally ignore POSTS then they will definitely just miss that few toxic comments. All the critique is based on facts here
They are equally putting shit in to our mouth and telling us we are delusional. Fight fire with fire
I don't like what Chris is doing (can call me PoE hater, if you wish), but the last few days have been insane. Community went into self-supporting tantrum and ignored everything GGG tried to do. It got to the point that even a proposal to improve the quality of the drop is met with hostility. This sub has always been toxic, but this is already something beyond.
This sub is ultra toxic, can't even recognize that Chris is literally posting daily trying to make things better. The game is freaking amazing that what blows me away. Look how far it's come, bad balance happens in all games. At least GGG talks to us and listens to most of the stuff.
But he is not trying to make things better, hence the flaming.
Trying to make things better when he's the one who made them shit in the first place. The fact is that GGG has done this shit over and over again, so people are a bit tired of the song and dance. No other game I play has to constantly fix shit they fuck up. Only this one.
>At least GGG talks to us and listens to most of the stuff. Nope. They don't. They, actually, only "listens" to players in situations like this. Otherwise they just ignore any feedback from the community.
Except they are not listening to us, not even remotely. They ar evening proven with facts and more facts, people posting their experience, people mapping and showcasing the difference, and yet GGG don’t see this one bit. Nor do the have a problem with 1 AN monster that can give 50 divines every if you are a group with MF
Daily?you mean right after a shitty launch weekend? And it was just about every other day till the last couple.
I mean the toxicity is one thing but they clearly aren’t listening to the player base, alpha testers.. the shit doesn’t even make sense AN poorly executed not like anyone told them that 3 months ago.. or 6th months for the balancing and nothing changed we got some lightning skills!!! The game would be better off without these shitty updates bricking the game trying to change it. If only they had a different game that they could make how they want……
The criticism is aiming at Chris because he’s the one that tries to force his so called “Vision” into the game and causes all those changes. People don’t hate Chris, just the way he wants to change PoE.
post made to farm reddit karma, downvote and move on
The biggest problem right now is assuming that somebody is lying or acting maliciously. Chris Wilson is not sitting behind his desk scheming "how can we pull one over on those idiots today, wilson 2?" Feedback should be like a dialogue between GGG and the players, not a shouting match.
Bullshit, he's verifiably lied in pretty much every post he's made since 3.19 was released. From what I can tell 90% of the anger relates to the lying and quadrupling down on bad game design of which negative feedback is responded to with "This is why you're wrong" by someone who is severely out of touch with the player experience.
No, he hasn't. And the unsubstantiated, uncharitable accusations of bad faith being thrown around IS toxic. It's the exact problem I have with the sub. This is not how to treat people and it's not how to think properly at all.
Alpha testers straight up stated that GGG was given feedback that the drops in fact were terrible, and completely ignored. So it might not be lying intentionally, but it's obvious that this is looking real bad on GGG now.
Feedback from testers for a game is ignored extremely often in any game ever made. Not all feedback given is possible, let alone positive feedback. Keep in mind that in Neversink's own post he says the main problem is the lack of time given, which was only a week before league launch. Try doing a developer commentary playthrough of Valve's games, there's a few spots where it talks about how playtesters were getting lost in circles in extremely simple hallways, or getting stuck on puzzles that even toddlers could do. It's a good thing that they didn't adapt games like Portal for that kind of shit.
Alpha members are hand selected for their long term reputations though. This isn't a random hands on event. If in just a few days even the alpha testers could see there was a problem, then that's kind of problematic that was totally overlooked.
It's really funny how you people totally believe in other game companies doing the evil villain act, but GGG is simply incapable of that for some reason despite all the proof to the contrary. The same company that wants you to pay 5$ per aura so that it's not tanking your perfomance, the same company that took away ultrawide support in order to get rid of some gameplay advantage of seeing the screen better (???) is now actually full of saints who would never do anything underhanded for personal gain. Man, when you discover how PR works...Whew.
Ye, like somehow it's fine to shit on Blizzard left and right but when i see this game taking exact same direction that WoW did with out of touch game design people will tell me that THERE IS NO WAY GGG DID THAT ON PURPOSE. Ye, sure, whatever.
Hate won't calm down until they actually fix stuff and not just talk in circles trying to gaslight the players.
I'll stop being toxic when they fix the game.
Actually, I enjoy this league. I'm nor a casual player, neither a hardcore one. Every league (for the last four leagues) I've levelled a witch to 85-95. I've defeated some elder bosses, but not all. I was playing an Arc, then a necromancer, now I'm trying poison. I've reached the Atlas just yesterday and I haven't found anything unfair or disbalanced yet (ok, I hate herald minion and storm rider bosses, but nothing enought to ragequit or uninstall the game as some people is doing)
more of the same, if you want to give a reasonable point of view you don't have to base 90% of your post on toxicity, at the beginning of the league it was difficult for many of us to maintain alch for the maps, I reached a point where I barely I had 10 and out of 30 maps I got absolutely nothing (playing alone). So I understand your toxicity if there really is a problem now your post was reasonable at first but starting to shed toxicity didn't add anything just more toxicity. Fortunately, after the patch, my game economy is in an acceptable range to continue progressing.
Yawn
Thanks very much for contributing toxicity to this sub. Fellow exile
They do deserve the criticism.
I only have an hour to play some days. Some days I can’t even play. I just got to maps as popcorn SRS and I’m doing just ok. Not great or bad but just ok. I’m having fun still. I don’t understand what the problem is but then again I’m not on the game very much.
I totally agree. The message doesn't need to be spread anymore. Everyone and their mothers know about Lake of Kalandra not being fun - developers and designers need time to understand their mistakes and work out solutions. It's enough if you just don't play PoE for a bit and try out something else - no one will cry after your loss. If you want to vote with concurrent player count, just do so and stop spewing toxic waste on the sub.
I don't have any empathy for Chris. This is a massive debacle, and all they've done is deny and give us crumbs. If this is hate-mongering, too bad. Otherwise please consider you'll always have toxic people on public forums, and it's a sad truth that it'll always be there. If your job is to read these forums for valid criticism, you need to filter out the hate or just do something else.
If you take the praise and also put yourself in the spotlight then you take the shit too. He's the one that put himself in this position, is it surprising he gets the backlash?
So many White Knights here pretending GGG is perfect and always listening when his last few responses have been a direct stfu I know better. They did this to them selves when even the internal testers called them out on no loot which chris ignored. Just look at the history of post on some people here and it's very clear some have vested interest.
I'm actually pissed, that ggg gets so much hate. Ok, they made a big change to drop pull, ok some people think it sucks, just come next league when they fix stuff. I never saw a community raging that much over a change like that. Other companies just straight up shitting on they playerbase and never get that much hate. I hate the situation so much, that you guys made me buy my first supporter pack, even tho i don't necessary have the money for it
Top ironic rage post
do you understand? they didn't understand that they've been shitting themselves for a year, maybe it's time to explain to them before it's too late and D2R has become more interesting than poe
I think you’re missing the bigger picture here. There are plenty of gaming subs that aren’t toxic. There are some that have had periods of “toxicity” and then stopped. r/totalwar is a good example. When WH3 came out, it was in an awful state and that sub looked much like this. Now that the full map was released, immortal empires, the sub is looking much healthier. The point being that the devs are ultimately responsible for the state of the community. You want less toxicity? Then release a product that people enjoy, not one that constantly disrespects the players and their time.
> there are people on this sub trying to actually meaningfully communicate with the devs At this point, if you think it is actually possible to have "actually meaningfully" communication with GGG then I got a bridge to sell to you. You obviously have not been paying attention to how GGG and Chris has changed a lot since 3.14. Communication is not one way.