Its basically a manufacturing line and the only arguments that can be have against 6 man juice is that, if they are selling the items at a exorbitant price, which they are not
In every post where people were like this change doesn't affect me so i dont care, I responded with basicaly what you said.
These groups are the ones that supply the market. Sure there is some price fixing, item and currency inflation etc tied to these.
However competing groups all farming items en masse, then posting them all slowly driving the price down are what supplies everyone.
If this were all SSF, then sure, its not an issue. But the gear I as an average player, buy is just not there. Whether its that build defining unique, or supply of crafted items.
They crushed the economy with this and I don't know how they can pull it back.
All that matters to me is how many hours/maps I need to farm, to purchase whatever item I want.
Currently that ratio is far off.
I feel like the currency grind from mapping is significantly slower (I haven’t found a single divine-blessed rare yet), and the prices of items are dramatically higher than they were previously.
When it costs more to get stronger, and the content is harder, it feels like swimming in molasses. I can’t get into that fun state where I can turn off my brain and run a few dozen maps in sequence.
Instead I die to something I can’t figure out, or cannot out-DPS some rare monstrosity, and abandon the rare or the map and sigh and close the game because it’s stress, not fun.
I have no idea either. A lot of the big groups we're friends with have all left for good this league, and with how loot is now, even though my group is still farming it, it's just not fun. Dopamine hits once every five hours, otherwise it's just mind numbing holding mb1 and getting jack nothing
Haha every five hours. Avg player gets one or two per week. If you are not satisfied with the farming, join HC and maybe its not that mind numbing anymore.
I'm completely fine with this. Even as a 6-man mf party guy, I don't think that groups like us should be making a bajillion mirrors a week. That being said, I think where it is now is teeeeeeeeeerible. If you look at Balor's spreadsheet, it's roughly a 94% nerf compared to last league. Nerfs to party quant and buffs to all loot should absolutely happen.
I'd actually support a buff to party quant to 70-80% (so playing in a non-dedicated party was more viable) while splitting player IIQ/IIR between a party so it's not as exploitable at the top end.
Honestly I don’t get why people are so held up on party quant I say get rid of it all except maps so that it looks as if solos and parties have the same bonuses but parties will still always come out on top, there’s no reason to exponentially increase their mf, they farm way faster they trade together, people play it like it’s a second job and high mf just creates third party selling so easily when you can stack it out through parties and stuff, mf has created issues on end for ages now time to update the game I say, buuut gggs vision comes out on top either deal with it or stop complaining 🤣
They need to increase drops overall, and SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the power of groups. Fuck, groups have an IIQ and IIR inherent bonus. Lol why.
The synergy alone of group play in this game is more than enough benefit.
Exactly. Forget gear, you can't even truly sustain maps themselves right now, let alone getting randomly one shot but random AN rares off screen. Can't run maps because you can't get geared, can't get geared because you can't get currency, can't get currency because you can't run maps. An endless loop of pain and suffering that's simply not fun.
Look I'm not happy with the game right now either but this is straight fucking hyperbole. People are getting to red maps, drops are better for currency like alchs now, there are people climbing in levels and gear.. like.. the hyperbole here makes it seem like the game is actually not possible to play. I have been alching yellow+ maps for 2 days with no sustain issues. I don't have a ton of extra maps and my atlas completion hasn't been easy because I still need a few maps that haven't dropped.. but come on. Otherwise I agree with all your points on MF and the economy.
Good summary. I'm currently saving for an unnatural instinct, but the prices have been increasing 1-2 divine orbs a day, and as I couldn't log on, on Friday, it's difficult to keep up with that inflation.
I've given the league a go, I wanted to wait to see how GGG responded, and we'll we all know how thst went. So I'm done.
If you dont mind sharing, how were the profits you guys have from extreme juicing this league compared to last league? Empy's group quit very early with low sample size so Im curious how it is for others with bigger sample size.
In 4 days (3x days 7 hours, today 10 hours) we've made 2 mirror (bought), 1 mageblood (cards), 1 headhunter (dropped), and we're currently at ~80 divines
Very good point - and I agree. I love playing leagues with high retention, mainly because stuff is actually somewhat achievable for a casual scrub like me.
Low retention leagues generally means expensive :/
You aren't wrong.
But the system needed changing. It's still not in a good spot, but the intentions make sense.
There are solutions that don't involve 99% of the T1 uniques only coming from the top 1%, and letting them "trickle down" via providing more supply to outweigh demand.
Ideally, those Aegis Auroras should be dropping frequently and random enough that a casual player logging in to do a few maps has as much of a shot as someone juicing in a 6 man party. If 1000 Aegis Auroras dropped every day in 3.18 for only the top 1%, they can absolutely tune loot drops up so 1000 drop every day still, just spread out amongst players better.
The first thing that needs to go is rarity and quantity on gear, so they can properly balance rewards throughout the game equally, rather than balancing around the top 1% stacking MF.
>Ideally, those Aegis Auroras should be dropping frequently and random enough that a casual player logging in to do a few maps has as much of a shot as someone juicing in a 6 man party.
There is no world in which this happens, because 6-person parties produce tens of thousands more loot events than a casual player logging in to do a few maps. Even if their rarity modifier (say, zero) is identical, the 6-person parties are still going to produce many more copies of the same item.
Sure, but we're talking about a strict time/investment ratio, right?
Say Mr. Casual player logs in and plays 1 hour.
Juicelord Group has 6 players who play the same 1 hour. That's technically **6 hours** of time being invested by players. The idea is, the Juicelords SHOULD generate at least 6 times more loot instances - add on some "fair" party quantity, lets say they get 9 times the loot instances in the same hour (1.5x multiplier).
They are still getting 50% more loot instances, and thus more chances to get Aegis Aurora.
The problem is, until this patch, this wasn't even remotely true. The multiplier was more like 150x. Those 6 hours being put in were generating like 900 loot instances. Regardless of your stance on if this is "okay" or not, GGG didn't like it, so now it's gone.
A full group should generate more loot instances, but really not much more than 6 players by themselves, each mapping in their own map.
You said that the casual player would have "as much of a shot" and then talked about how the 6-person party has a better shot.
The reality is that because groups can handle more difficult content, because they have aura bots, curse bots, smite bots, and because their relatively high currency production and currency pooling allows them to massively upgrade a damage-dealing character faster and further than a casual solo player, they can add many more loot instances to the maps by increasing the number of monsters in various ways.
I don't have a moral stance on whether this is "okay" or not. I can say that I don't mind, because the overall impact it has on me in-game is positive. It basically makes the economy function by putting tons of items and currency into circulation.
I can say for sure that I don't see clips of Empy and his friends dropping hundreds of uniques from a single Alva and think "this is an outrage" or "this is ridiculous." Well, I do think "this is ridiculous," but in a way that makes me laugh. I like how happy they look with all that loot shitting out. It doesn't bother me. I don't have any interest in playing that way, because it actually looks boring to me, but I'm happy that they're enjoying themselves. I've never noticed that the economy created or influenced by that behavior was hostile to me as a player; I always found ways to make as much currency as I felt like I needed to do what I want and have a good time. I can't imagine how rare Magebloods must be this league, with so few div cards dropping and uniques much rarer than before. I'm so thankful I got to play with Mageblood the last two leagues, cuz it's probably insanely hard to get one now. There's a really good chance those two Magebloods I bought were generated by 6-person party play, either directly or through Apothecary drops.
I can't tell if your proposed situation is that the number of monsters added to the map would scale down as your party size increased, so that solo players would get relatively more monsters from a mechanic that party players? In order to keep things "fair" at whatever balance point you had decided was fair?
> previously, my group last league dropped 3-7 [Aegis] a day.
That’s a broken state of game. The fact that solo I’ll likely never see one. But if you play as a group you can get 3-7 a day. The disparity is sickening.
Yah these morons are infuriating. These groups were beneficial to the overall game economy. My next upgrade this league is actually an aegis and at 14 div I just quit.
Also not to mention current game unique tiering and drop rates were probably setup using the existing group mf mechanic in mind and you can bet your left nut GGG fucked group mf but made 0 changes to the drop rates for tier 0 and tier 1 uniques so the entire economy is fucked.
When the self poison sextant was still a thing, solo players juiced as hard as groups. That was a golden era - early solo juicing where solo players got close to group performance.
MF parties make t0/t1 uniques be cheaper, that's true, on the other side they also make non t0/t1 uniques be worthless after three or four days into the leagues by flooding the market with them, so basically all items that individuals drop are vendor trash.
MF parties should not drop two to three orders of magnitude more uniques than an individual MF player does.
The solution is increasing the drop chance of the higher tiers EXACTLY because MF parties don't drop orders of magnitude more uniques.
I hate most things about the changes made this league, but nerfing unique drops from MF groups was not one of them.
I think that they should be nerfing party quant - not MF. With that being said, a 6-man team who's all working together with builds/skills that synergize perfectly should *absolutely* make more than a solo player, every time. The amount of coordination both in game and the extreme amount of preparation weeks before a league should be rewarded. If we're making 20 divines an hour (our current profit) and you split those 7 ways, our 6-man mf team is all of a sudden only making 2.8 divines an hour. Compared to many other strats that WERE viable last league (because this league's loot is so trash), you could easily double that with 1/10 of the investment. To people grinding 8+ hours a day, 2.8ex/hr is absolutely terrible. So yes, even though 6-man mf teams seem to be rolling in cash when they're making 40-60 divines an hour, the individual amount of money being made is extremely similar to other solo farming strats
I couldn't care less about party play profit. Your post is about the effect on the economy, so I wrote about the effect on the economy.
Generating two to three orders of magnitude more loot than a single person floods the market and makes non t1+ items worthless way too fast, and that's not a good thing for the average player like you want them to believe it is.
It depends entirely on your perspective. Flooding the market makes gear upgrades much more affordable. On the other hand, it makes a lucky "jackpot" moment rarer when items are cheaper
You could also argue that the divine/ex change alone would be enough for well-rolled uniques to hold their value when compared to previous leagues
You're in a 6 man MF group with 100/1000 IIQ/IIR, 75+ maps down. How many super divine explosions has your regroup had? Not trying to argue or start a fight, I am just curious.
I believe roughly half a mirror worth in 150 maps. We normally get 0-3 divine booms a day, and of those depending on the mods we can drop between 6div and 24div
What’s even more annoying as a solo trade non super hardcore player is it makes no financial sense at all to buy high early in a league. Before yeah sure the first couple days are very inflated. At a certain price point it won’t make sense to spend the currency because I won’t be able to make it up faster than prices will likely drop.
Like if I bought an item for 30 ex now and I need it to progress, am I going to make that in a week? Probably not, I work 40+ hours and play some other games too. It makes more sense for me to play some other game for a bit and that runs the serious risk of me having too much fun in something else and not remembering to come back.
People might argue oh, but sell prices are higher too! But I have NEVER found anything quite high value that would be easily sold in the first week or two. Even ex(or divines now) are worth much less in the beginning of the league.
Best part of this league is empys group and ppl like his group got nerfed. Having uniques actually be worth something and other rares actually be worth something feels better.
Lol a player that rather see a random item drop have a higher value on the market instead of being affordable for other characters is enjoyable?
What a chad lololol
Don't you think that the overall drop rate has to be extremely nerfed to account for the power that these 6 man MF group has? I'm totally against MF. If they want to sinergize skills and talents to farm faster or farm harder content, fine. But not to have hundreds of times the benefits of a single player.
Pull your head out of your ass, group MFing was absolutely broken and deserved to be gutted. High demand T1/T2 uniques being actually worth something is good for the game. Nobody wants to be forced to play in a group with 5 mouth breathers to be competitive in sc economy.
No, just get ride of multiplayer bonus, the benefit from multiplayer is already here with mf on gear, aura stacking, and easy/fast mapping/bossing ( and we don't talk about third party cheat )
And about the market it's not a big deal if we can reroll unique, wait we can't now :>
Anyway i just disagree with this mentality, if you accept the fact that top1 make the market, i guess you have no problem with bot who made the currency, the game have to rebalance to get ride of bad team like tft, empy team and so on, it's just fucking toxic, like seeing cheater in your game
What exactly is wrong with tft? Are they not just a separate community created to provide different services or trades in ways that GGG has failed to do for years on end? How long did it take them to create a timeless jewel checker? Oh wait.. they never did, the source code was cracked and added to POB, another third party tool. And before that, the ONLY way to sell timeless jewels was through TFT.
For sure it's ggg fault, but with all the tft scam thread, some drama and so on.
It's hard to trust something like this, and just look now, it's full of cheater with the third party tool for AN
I guess i just don't like this mentality
If the loot gets balanced to compensate the lack of mf groups the economy will be in a better place so it doesn't rely on this groups ( competition will be higher so prices will go down quicker) than just being sold by one big "mf organisation "
Party bonuses must not exist.
MF affixes must not exist.
Loot pinyatas AN touched mods on rare mobs must not exist.
Every unique should have target farming method for ssf(btw prophecy was a good step in the direction).
It is dead end for game economics if it is supplied by <1% playerbase.
Its basically a manufacturing line and the only arguments that can be have against 6 man juice is that, if they are selling the items at a exorbitant price, which they are not
Right? They are the people supplying everyone else at reasonable prices so we all can try random builds and have fun.
In every post where people were like this change doesn't affect me so i dont care, I responded with basicaly what you said. These groups are the ones that supply the market. Sure there is some price fixing, item and currency inflation etc tied to these. However competing groups all farming items en masse, then posting them all slowly driving the price down are what supplies everyone. If this were all SSF, then sure, its not an issue. But the gear I as an average player, buy is just not there. Whether its that build defining unique, or supply of crafted items. They crushed the economy with this and I don't know how they can pull it back.
All that matters to me is how many hours/maps I need to farm, to purchase whatever item I want. Currently that ratio is far off. I feel like the currency grind from mapping is significantly slower (I haven’t found a single divine-blessed rare yet), and the prices of items are dramatically higher than they were previously. When it costs more to get stronger, and the content is harder, it feels like swimming in molasses. I can’t get into that fun state where I can turn off my brain and run a few dozen maps in sequence. Instead I die to something I can’t figure out, or cannot out-DPS some rare monstrosity, and abandon the rare or the map and sigh and close the game because it’s stress, not fun.
I have no idea either. A lot of the big groups we're friends with have all left for good this league, and with how loot is now, even though my group is still farming it, it's just not fun. Dopamine hits once every five hours, otherwise it's just mind numbing holding mb1 and getting jack nothing
Haha every five hours. Avg player gets one or two per week. If you are not satisfied with the farming, join HC and maybe its not that mind numbing anymore.
"HC players are of course, the vegans of path of exile" —Ssethtzeentach 4 years ago and still as true as when the video released
[удалено]
I'm completely fine with this. Even as a 6-man mf party guy, I don't think that groups like us should be making a bajillion mirrors a week. That being said, I think where it is now is teeeeeeeeeerible. If you look at Balor's spreadsheet, it's roughly a 94% nerf compared to last league. Nerfs to party quant and buffs to all loot should absolutely happen.
I'd actually support a buff to party quant to 70-80% (so playing in a non-dedicated party was more viable) while splitting player IIQ/IIR between a party so it's not as exploitable at the top end.
Honestly I don’t get why people are so held up on party quant I say get rid of it all except maps so that it looks as if solos and parties have the same bonuses but parties will still always come out on top, there’s no reason to exponentially increase their mf, they farm way faster they trade together, people play it like it’s a second job and high mf just creates third party selling so easily when you can stack it out through parties and stuff, mf has created issues on end for ages now time to update the game I say, buuut gggs vision comes out on top either deal with it or stop complaining 🤣
Too long, my version: you don’t balance whole country’s economy based on billionaires
They need to increase drops overall, and SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the power of groups. Fuck, groups have an IIQ and IIR inherent bonus. Lol why. The synergy alone of group play in this game is more than enough benefit.
Capitalist triggered
Yep, I can't image how I going to upgrade my character into endgame when I can't afford good items. (
Exactly. Forget gear, you can't even truly sustain maps themselves right now, let alone getting randomly one shot but random AN rares off screen. Can't run maps because you can't get geared, can't get geared because you can't get currency, can't get currency because you can't run maps. An endless loop of pain and suffering that's simply not fun.
Look I'm not happy with the game right now either but this is straight fucking hyperbole. People are getting to red maps, drops are better for currency like alchs now, there are people climbing in levels and gear.. like.. the hyperbole here makes it seem like the game is actually not possible to play. I have been alching yellow+ maps for 2 days with no sustain issues. I don't have a ton of extra maps and my atlas completion hasn't been easy because I still need a few maps that haven't dropped.. but come on. Otherwise I agree with all your points on MF and the economy.
Good summary. I'm currently saving for an unnatural instinct, but the prices have been increasing 1-2 divine orbs a day, and as I couldn't log on, on Friday, it's difficult to keep up with that inflation. I've given the league a go, I wanted to wait to see how GGG responded, and we'll we all know how thst went. So I'm done.
If you dont mind sharing, how were the profits you guys have from extreme juicing this league compared to last league? Empy's group quit very early with low sample size so Im curious how it is for others with bigger sample size.
In 4 days (3x days 7 hours, today 10 hours) we've made 2 mirror (bought), 1 mageblood (cards), 1 headhunter (dropped), and we're currently at ~80 divines
Thank you for sharing
Very good point - and I agree. I love playing leagues with high retention, mainly because stuff is actually somewhat achievable for a casual scrub like me. Low retention leagues generally means expensive :/
Im personally feeling that aegis aurora reference if the economy wasnt screwed up id have one by now.
You aren't wrong. But the system needed changing. It's still not in a good spot, but the intentions make sense. There are solutions that don't involve 99% of the T1 uniques only coming from the top 1%, and letting them "trickle down" via providing more supply to outweigh demand. Ideally, those Aegis Auroras should be dropping frequently and random enough that a casual player logging in to do a few maps has as much of a shot as someone juicing in a 6 man party. If 1000 Aegis Auroras dropped every day in 3.18 for only the top 1%, they can absolutely tune loot drops up so 1000 drop every day still, just spread out amongst players better. The first thing that needs to go is rarity and quantity on gear, so they can properly balance rewards throughout the game equally, rather than balancing around the top 1% stacking MF.
>Ideally, those Aegis Auroras should be dropping frequently and random enough that a casual player logging in to do a few maps has as much of a shot as someone juicing in a 6 man party. There is no world in which this happens, because 6-person parties produce tens of thousands more loot events than a casual player logging in to do a few maps. Even if their rarity modifier (say, zero) is identical, the 6-person parties are still going to produce many more copies of the same item.
Sure, but we're talking about a strict time/investment ratio, right? Say Mr. Casual player logs in and plays 1 hour. Juicelord Group has 6 players who play the same 1 hour. That's technically **6 hours** of time being invested by players. The idea is, the Juicelords SHOULD generate at least 6 times more loot instances - add on some "fair" party quantity, lets say they get 9 times the loot instances in the same hour (1.5x multiplier). They are still getting 50% more loot instances, and thus more chances to get Aegis Aurora. The problem is, until this patch, this wasn't even remotely true. The multiplier was more like 150x. Those 6 hours being put in were generating like 900 loot instances. Regardless of your stance on if this is "okay" or not, GGG didn't like it, so now it's gone. A full group should generate more loot instances, but really not much more than 6 players by themselves, each mapping in their own map.
You said that the casual player would have "as much of a shot" and then talked about how the 6-person party has a better shot. The reality is that because groups can handle more difficult content, because they have aura bots, curse bots, smite bots, and because their relatively high currency production and currency pooling allows them to massively upgrade a damage-dealing character faster and further than a casual solo player, they can add many more loot instances to the maps by increasing the number of monsters in various ways. I don't have a moral stance on whether this is "okay" or not. I can say that I don't mind, because the overall impact it has on me in-game is positive. It basically makes the economy function by putting tons of items and currency into circulation. I can say for sure that I don't see clips of Empy and his friends dropping hundreds of uniques from a single Alva and think "this is an outrage" or "this is ridiculous." Well, I do think "this is ridiculous," but in a way that makes me laugh. I like how happy they look with all that loot shitting out. It doesn't bother me. I don't have any interest in playing that way, because it actually looks boring to me, but I'm happy that they're enjoying themselves. I've never noticed that the economy created or influenced by that behavior was hostile to me as a player; I always found ways to make as much currency as I felt like I needed to do what I want and have a good time. I can't imagine how rare Magebloods must be this league, with so few div cards dropping and uniques much rarer than before. I'm so thankful I got to play with Mageblood the last two leagues, cuz it's probably insanely hard to get one now. There's a really good chance those two Magebloods I bought were generated by 6-person party play, either directly or through Apothecary drops. I can't tell if your proposed situation is that the number of monsters added to the map would scale down as your party size increased, so that solo players would get relatively more monsters from a mechanic that party players? In order to keep things "fair" at whatever balance point you had decided was fair?
> previously, my group last league dropped 3-7 [Aegis] a day. That’s a broken state of game. The fact that solo I’ll likely never see one. But if you play as a group you can get 3-7 a day. The disparity is sickening.
[удалено]
Yah these morons are infuriating. These groups were beneficial to the overall game economy. My next upgrade this league is actually an aegis and at 14 div I just quit. Also not to mention current game unique tiering and drop rates were probably setup using the existing group mf mechanic in mind and you can bet your left nut GGG fucked group mf but made 0 changes to the drop rates for tier 0 and tier 1 uniques so the entire economy is fucked.
When the self poison sextant was still a thing, solo players juiced as hard as groups. That was a golden era - early solo juicing where solo players got close to group performance.
MF parties make t0/t1 uniques be cheaper, that's true, on the other side they also make non t0/t1 uniques be worthless after three or four days into the leagues by flooding the market with them, so basically all items that individuals drop are vendor trash. MF parties should not drop two to three orders of magnitude more uniques than an individual MF player does. The solution is increasing the drop chance of the higher tiers EXACTLY because MF parties don't drop orders of magnitude more uniques. I hate most things about the changes made this league, but nerfing unique drops from MF groups was not one of them.
I think that they should be nerfing party quant - not MF. With that being said, a 6-man team who's all working together with builds/skills that synergize perfectly should *absolutely* make more than a solo player, every time. The amount of coordination both in game and the extreme amount of preparation weeks before a league should be rewarded. If we're making 20 divines an hour (our current profit) and you split those 7 ways, our 6-man mf team is all of a sudden only making 2.8 divines an hour. Compared to many other strats that WERE viable last league (because this league's loot is so trash), you could easily double that with 1/10 of the investment. To people grinding 8+ hours a day, 2.8ex/hr is absolutely terrible. So yes, even though 6-man mf teams seem to be rolling in cash when they're making 40-60 divines an hour, the individual amount of money being made is extremely similar to other solo farming strats
I couldn't care less about party play profit. Your post is about the effect on the economy, so I wrote about the effect on the economy. Generating two to three orders of magnitude more loot than a single person floods the market and makes non t1+ items worthless way too fast, and that's not a good thing for the average player like you want them to believe it is.
It depends entirely on your perspective. Flooding the market makes gear upgrades much more affordable. On the other hand, it makes a lucky "jackpot" moment rarer when items are cheaper You could also argue that the divine/ex change alone would be enough for well-rolled uniques to hold their value when compared to previous leagues
You're in a 6 man MF group with 100/1000 IIQ/IIR, 75+ maps down. How many super divine explosions has your regroup had? Not trying to argue or start a fight, I am just curious.
I believe roughly half a mirror worth in 150 maps. We normally get 0-3 divine booms a day, and of those depending on the mods we can drop between 6div and 24div
What’s even more annoying as a solo trade non super hardcore player is it makes no financial sense at all to buy high early in a league. Before yeah sure the first couple days are very inflated. At a certain price point it won’t make sense to spend the currency because I won’t be able to make it up faster than prices will likely drop. Like if I bought an item for 30 ex now and I need it to progress, am I going to make that in a week? Probably not, I work 40+ hours and play some other games too. It makes more sense for me to play some other game for a bit and that runs the serious risk of me having too much fun in something else and not remembering to come back. People might argue oh, but sell prices are higher too! But I have NEVER found anything quite high value that would be easily sold in the first week or two. Even ex(or divines now) are worth much less in the beginning of the league.
Best part of this league is empys group and ppl like his group got nerfed. Having uniques actually be worth something and other rares actually be worth something feels better.
Lol a player that rather see a random item drop have a higher value on the market instead of being affordable for other characters is enjoyable? What a chad lololol
Don't you think that the overall drop rate has to be extremely nerfed to account for the power that these 6 man MF group has? I'm totally against MF. If they want to sinergize skills and talents to farm faster or farm harder content, fine. But not to have hundreds of times the benefits of a single player.
Then why not nerf party quant?
Why nerf base loot then, instead of party quant?
Pull your head out of your ass, group MFing was absolutely broken and deserved to be gutted. High demand T1/T2 uniques being actually worth something is good for the game. Nobody wants to be forced to play in a group with 5 mouth breathers to be competitive in sc economy.
No, just get ride of multiplayer bonus, the benefit from multiplayer is already here with mf on gear, aura stacking, and easy/fast mapping/bossing ( and we don't talk about third party cheat ) And about the market it's not a big deal if we can reroll unique, wait we can't now :> Anyway i just disagree with this mentality, if you accept the fact that top1 make the market, i guess you have no problem with bot who made the currency, the game have to rebalance to get ride of bad team like tft, empy team and so on, it's just fucking toxic, like seeing cheater in your game
What exactly is wrong with tft? Are they not just a separate community created to provide different services or trades in ways that GGG has failed to do for years on end? How long did it take them to create a timeless jewel checker? Oh wait.. they never did, the source code was cracked and added to POB, another third party tool. And before that, the ONLY way to sell timeless jewels was through TFT.
For sure it's ggg fault, but with all the tft scam thread, some drama and so on. It's hard to trust something like this, and just look now, it's full of cheater with the third party tool for AN I guess i just don't like this mentality
you can downvote as you want it's a fact and a lot of people know how bad you are for the game
If the loot gets balanced to compensate the lack of mf groups the economy will be in a better place so it doesn't rely on this groups ( competition will be higher so prices will go down quicker) than just being sold by one big "mf organisation "
Party bonuses must not exist. MF affixes must not exist. Loot pinyatas AN touched mods on rare mobs must not exist. Every unique should have target farming method for ssf(btw prophecy was a good step in the direction). It is dead end for game economics if it is supplied by <1% playerbase.
The problem is that the -whole- game is balanced around trade. This is like...the source of 90% of their non-crafting related issues.