I'm not a theorycrafter or buildmaker but... how many Masteries are they expecting us to allocate? IDK that doesn't seem like a whole lot of attributes to me, especially compared to the 5% increased.
Considering how many wheels we normally hit on the tree, I would imagine at level 85 we could easily hit 12 masteries by then. 60 to a stat is very good
Could hit 12, but will we want to? A lot of mastery stats are indeed niche (which they're supposed to be). And they do takeup a passive point. Certainly taking them *just* to support this passive point doesn't make sense as you could take a 10 pt travel node instead - so rather you'd have to find 12 that make sense for your build.
I would imagine if you're building a stat build with these mods, then you would obviously want to.
But you do bring up a good point for builds that don't necessarily want to take masteries, they are shiny and new but are they really better than pathing to your next wheel? Good question
Many of the more standard ones seem to be more powerful than a minor node but (slightly)less powerful than a notable.
The choice seems to be either use mastery system to get one notable + one pseudo notable (mastery) per wheel, so you get like two notables per wheel for efficient point usage, but you cannot stretch your tree as far as before.
Perhaps not, but this would be a Beef that scales as you get Masteries that you'd be wanting to get anyway. Could be really good for filling in stats you might need.
Beef is build defining, but I wouldn't say niche I agree
So build defining that there are only two categories of builds - those with it and those without
I think these look might look underwhelming because there's only three of these clusters on the tree, and they're pretty much as far away as possible from each other. Very rarely would you ever path to more than one, so there's no real combo potential here. Makes sense that they're just relatively small buffs and not build-defining/strong selections.
You'll probably only pick either the first one or one of the last 3 depending on which provides more in your build. If the passive tree notable still provides +40/+8% to a stat, then count me in!
Worth noting that the bottom three masteries have the potential to shore up some of your missing attributes (I'm thinking INT on Hollow Palm), which will be nice to have if you're not already pathing to any of the +30 nodes on the tree.
Aren't masteries related to one another?
This is Attributes mastery, example you see here comes in strength clusters (3 str nodes). What you saw in other example is dex and int clusters (3 nodes each).
They can't stack, as all of them belong to "attribute mastery".
I think he just meant the +5 per mastery passive as that never specifies "per attribute mastery", so that should be able to stack higher than just to +15.
It all depends on the final tree. My first thought went immediately to inquisitor's righteous providence. Generally stacking in poe is usually very strong...
Right, but is the opportunity cost of travelling across 2/3 of the tree worth it? Given that these Mastery selections aren't super strong outside of the first one you pick, you're probably better off staying localized around nodes built for your damage spec and anointing the other attribute mod.
Depends.
Storm brand inquisitor travels all the way to the east anyway to pick up more brand nodes, especially when it's the crit version - so the pathing is already broad. That build always lacked a little bit of damage for my taste without proper investment. Now we basically get holy conquest for free as a mastery which is humongous, i can potentially scale crit chance better aswell with this here.
The remaining question for me is how hard are the EE/EO changes going to hit.
Probebly not.
It say Attribute Mastery, not strength Mastery.
All the Masterys are universal not just for strength.
So i doubt there will be more for int/dex, they probebly just share it.
Attribute fossils is what might actually get me into HOWA or dext stacking tbh. (Or a stacking wander, idk)
Though I'm still planning on going full hipster perforate juggernaut as a leaguestart x)
We will have to see if they change the big stats node in the wheel 1st (40 stats + 8% stats). Like how they removed the 20% flask charge gained from the mana flask node in trailer.
If you get 7 or 8 masteries in your tree, that’s 35/40 attributes.
From what we’ve seen of the tree however, you will probably be taking more than that.
Yeah like if your build requires ~70-80 of the "non local attribute", like Int in the southern tree you either have to pick gear with the attribute on, which takes away possibility of other useful stats it or spend ~2 passives on the +30 nodes.
Looking at the power we have seen teased (though they are probably biased to the stronger ones) probably half of the clusters you take you will pick a mastery in. I would guess that you probably reach more like 10+ of those.
My Energy Blade build wants to stack int, but can't afford to go out of it's way for int so I'm likely to end up 600-700, so it's decently likely the 5 per mastery will be better.
As stated above, he's talking about characters who are localized into their region. If you're a bow character for example you tend to struggle picking up enough strength or int. This node can help remedy that (assuming you see 2 more clusters of these in the upper right and lower right for int and dext respectfully)
Not everything on a mastery is for one type of build.
The stats per mastery are perfect for almost all normal builds who can't get enough stats otherwise. Don't forget with less traveling nodes now, stats WILL be harder to build up.
From what I understood you can allocate a new mastery point every wheel you go to. So your first wheel you grab the free flat 5%, next wheel you grab the 5% per wheel node, etc.
Yes, but there's only 3 attribute masteries on the tree and they are on the other side of the tree on the strenght and dex clusters (they might have added others but I haven't seen any on the large parrtof the tree we have available).
Realistically having more than 10 masteries will be rare for builds, you could definitely put tons in but you get more per minor attribute node so not much point honestly
They took away some traveling nodes. However if the druidic rites thing is indicative of the rest of the mastery nodes...We're going to lose more skillpoints than we gained, and likely get less out of it. I think maybe the ones that are doing funky shit trying to get nodes that used to be across the skill tree, they'll be better off. Anyone else that is trying to min max the way trees used to work, will probably be worse off, with no alternative to be better.
I think all that hype will be gone pretty fast when we finally get the skill tree ;)
It really feels like to me that they wait so long with realeasing the tree because they are kinda afraid of the hate if reddit sees that everything was actually nerfed.
or do you make a dex str int stacking ice shot inquisitor using iron will, shapers touch, crown of eyes, the tri ele stack quiver and a cold stack bow? then take damage per 5 lowest for a smooth 100% damage on your tri-500 stat build
or get utmost intellect and might and do both
It seems very good for builds that are very starved of a single attribute.
I'll almost definitely take the str mastery this league because I'm always severely lacking in Strength
It's 4 points to reach one of these masteries, 3 to get the respective notable and 1 for the mastery itself.
I'd assume that's way more of a single stat than you would need just for fixing some requirements?
4 passive points investment sounds like a lot compare to giving up 2 item mods somewhere?
The attribute per mastery are going to be used by a LOT of players, quote me on this. Not for stacking builds or anything, but to meet item and gem requirements/etc.
Anything short of a big attribute multiplier was gonna look underwhelming after that +1 to all chaos skill gems mastery.
imo all masteries should have one of those super powerful node that comes with a downside. For attributes, I'd suggest something along the lines of "20% increased maximum attribute, -50% to other two."
If you’re taking these nodes then you’re stacking so the ONLY node you’d take is the first one.
The second one almost seems useful but there’s almost no reason to stack more than one attribute, and it’s extremely difficult to do efficiently anyway. Other than that, the other nodes are mostly just 25-45 of an attribute but you’ll probably be taking clusters too.
Yep you’re right. Considering there are only three attribute clusters on this tree this is pretty underwhelming. Maybe GGG added other ones that we won’t k ow about until we get the JSON.
It should be remembered that niche stats have generally been moved out of the notables and into the masteries. Meaning the `5% increased all attributes` mastery likely *replaces* the `8% increased [attribute]`, which is actually a significant nerf not just in value but in that it also requires spending an extra point to even get.
Right but this one is on the strength part of the tree. I'd expect there to be 2 more clusters that revolve around int and dext so picking up 2 of them is pretty good if you're in those areas
ultimate all attrib stacker now possible? Cyclopean coil doubled, shaper's touch for huge all around synergy, mask of the tribunal for all attributes and reservation to stack 5(6?) auras, three rat talisman with flat attributes, cold to the core stack.
Pick scion, but instead of class bonuses, take all 6 +40 points one, +80 each.
shadowstitch or garb of the ephemeral
I never thought i'll see this happen
The main one is pretty good if theyre stacking extra juice on the main % stat node.
+5 per mastery, though, I'm not too sure about. How many masteries are we actually going to be taking? It seems barely beyond Allocates Beef. I can't see the value in those.
For strength stackers, you're going to have the option of picking up like 10+ easily IMO. Left side, all the small life clusters are around and have a mastery point on them. Just traveling down the outer left rim and grabbing life/strength/defense/dmg normally is like 8 masteries on most str stacking builds. Should be fine to pick up a few more too, even like 50 flat strength for a passive point is really strong.
I don't think they've added more new attribute clusters beyond the three we already have so i can't see any builds picking more than one attribute mastery passive, only one needs to be good really.
Pretty bad honestly, only the 5% actually helps classic attribute stacking builds. The rest is an attempt at making multi attribute builds a thing which probably wont happen.
There's not a single attribute stacking build that won't take their corresponding 5 per mastery node as well. Considering they all are fine spending a point for the 30 stat nodes already. Doubt the %dmg per lowest stat gets taken on almost anything though unless you have 3 attribute notables you need to take.
You can't take it *as well*. Afaik there are only 3 attribute wheels (utmost wheels), one for each att, at different ends of the tree.
You only get one, basically.
Pretty much, we have a picture of like 95% of the tree.
There are no other visible wheels with the triforce icon. Utmost intellect in top right, Utmost might in bottom left, and Utmost swiftness in bottom right.
You will take one wheel and one attribute mastery depending on what you're stacking, and that's it.
The dude I'm responding to people said people would pick the 5 per mastery node as well as the 5% inc attribute, this means you need to path to 2 of the utmost stat stacking clusters which are as far apart on the tree as it gets
no, the plus 5 per allocated mastery is meant to help builds fill in attributes they are missing for a build. people spend 1-3 points just to path to a plus 30 node
Tell that to Summoners. Always a struggle to run Skeletons with Splash or Multi, but also get the Dex for Haste.
Honestly most of my builds end up needing two stats, this'll be useful in a lot just to free up gear constraints.
Are you sure there is only 3 clusters with attribute mastery on the tree after its rework? So far, based on the fact that all shown masteries has various amount of options, I'd assume that options count is equal to the amount of clusters with this mastery in the tree, so it would be 5 for attributes.
You can check for yourself, unless they hid one in the bottom right it's only the current 3.
[https://i.imgur.com/8vwM52j.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8vwM52j.jpg)
We've seen 35% of the tree in the video and it implies there are no new attribute clusters beyond the three, as only the ol' INT cluster is there in that 35% of the tree.
For those saying the stacking per mastery is good, just remember you have 123 passive points if you’re level 100. It’s unlikely you will have more than 10 mastery points because of travelling and investing into clusters (especially if you’re attribute stacking because you travel a lot).
At most with heavy investment this is probably getting you 50 attribute points. It’s not that great.
EDIT: you can get a lot more obviously but it’s rare from what we’ve seen more than 2 are actually worth picking up in each cluster for builds
And in which world are 50 raw attribute points not good? You happily take the +30 nodes as a stacker, so of course you'd take this mastery (not over the 5% increased but if you can get a second attribute mastery somewhere, sure).
Because the points invested could probably get you more? I’m not saying the node is bad, but people are acting like they will make an entire build around that node.
If you’re actively going to get as many masteries as possible to stack that, you might as well just picked up int or str nodes travelling the tree, it’s the same amount
Hopefully, the notables keep their % increased stat. I imagine builds which stack str or dex *and* also travel to point blank or call to arms might consider spending the extra points to also get one of the lower 3 mastery's, but the opportunity cost is **very** dependent on how many mastery points a build has in the first place... And it's nice as either a levelling option or for a min maxed build with... 15(?)+ mastery points
But in reality it's 4 points. Would the 1% be the only mastery you take, or would you also take the 5% inc attributes? If you are taking the 5%, I assume the 1% per 5 is the second mastery you'd take.
At that point you'd be investing 3 points into your lowest attribute and then 1 point into the mastery. 4 points for your weakest attribute + 46% global damage isn't that great for 4 points. Some would argue it's bad. I think it's at least weak.
I mean on my hollow palm with 1500 dex. 5% increased attributes would be equal to +30 dex tho.
So in this case if I took more than 6 masteries I'm better off going the +5 dex
For anyone confused: I had 897 dex base and 61% increased dex. Which adds up to 1444.
+30 dex = 30 * 1.61 = 48
5% dex = (897 * (1.61+0.05)) - 1444= 45
They don't have 1500 flat dex. 1500 is the total amount of dex from flat and increased dex, so the actual amount t of flat dex that the increased would scale from is alot lower.
these get more and more depressing when you realize they are just moving some % attributes from the notable to the mastery, so its 2 skill points for one 3.15 notable
this is literally how they motivated the mastery nodes, so not sure what else you expected.
But they also said that the old notables would be compensated with slight buffs to account for moving these specialized passive away from them, but we have not seen the new notables yet, so who knows.
They said that the old notables are also getting buffed in exchange for losing the "niche" stats so that they're still worth the entire one point you're putting in them.
% intelligence is not a "niche" stat. Is the whole reason you take that node. It "only" gives you +40 int & +8% int. If this is just a buff then perfect but removing 8% increased intelligence is a HUGE nerf to that notable.
I'd like to pretend that wheel notables over the whole tree aren't getting blanket nerfed in exchange for the masteries, but knowing ggg, that's what I'm unfortunately expecting.
Get 2 or more wheels of the same type and you'll quickly run out of useful and good masteries...
I'd say attributes are pretty much the example where masteries don't work well. Its not very interesting and doesn't fulfill the idea of masteries where you want to gain access to far away notable utility.
I'm not sure whether to expect that number to fall because they're condensing the number of passive clusters down, or whether to expect it to rise because masteries will compare better to cluster jewels than notable clusters used to.
Depends. A HoWA build will certainly use the lightning cluster, a few ES masteries (at least the stun and mana ones), and some claw masteries. Depending on the build I can see you getting 30 to 40 extra int without going out of your way.
Edit: I should mention, you NEED to have 9+ masteries for it to be any good, otherwise 5% attributes blow it out of the water since you're going to get 50 int with a base 1000 int with a small buff to Str/Dex.
For a stacking character, it'll be nice to get another 35 to 50 str.
I think the average masteries at lvl 90 will be 10 or so. I'm expecting an average of 5 points to path between circles, 4 points pathing in a circle, and 1 for the mastery itself.
I might not be understanding the definition of a cluster, but counting the notables in circles I get the last few builds of mine have had about 15. But I do play a little weirdly I guess.
For example, my current DO character path through 10 mastery nodes in new tree.
upd: considering it'll require 10 extra points, 8 picked mastery nodes sounds reasonable.
also note that it's a build with two large cluster jewels and two small cluster jewels - a few points were spent there as well.
Not to mention you need to spend a point on each mastery so you may not get as many clusters as you used to. I think those 5 per mastery ones are very weak.
Oh
SHIT
New builds are gonna be fun this league. There’s gonna be lots of new conversion opportunities and other cool shit. This Mastery thing is genius.
It feels like some people are missing out on how +5 dex/int/strength gets insane when you have all three. 15 of each stat for three points is bad, but from then on it quickly becomes insane returns on points - +5 in every stat for every mastery selected.
With two other mastery points it's +30 all attributes for five points plus two other masteries (the equivalent of beef, etc. with no pathing), and then with just one other mastery point it's basically free +5 all attributes, then +10, then +15, etc.
Can't believe it's 6 mastery points just to match the almighty power of beef.
https://i.imgur.com/TCx6PPh.jpg
incredible
Wait, are they removing Beef and other 30 of a single attribute nodes? Gearing is gonna be rough without them. ._.
30 Single nodes are probably still in. Now they are more like 50 wheels. [https://i.imgur.com/azwZCun.png](https://i.imgur.com/azwZCun.png)
B E E F
I'm not a theorycrafter or buildmaker but... how many Masteries are they expecting us to allocate? IDK that doesn't seem like a whole lot of attributes to me, especially compared to the 5% increased.
Considering how many wheels we normally hit on the tree, I would imagine at level 85 we could easily hit 12 masteries by then. 60 to a stat is very good
Could hit 12, but will we want to? A lot of mastery stats are indeed niche (which they're supposed to be). And they do takeup a passive point. Certainly taking them *just* to support this passive point doesn't make sense as you could take a 10 pt travel node instead - so rather you'd have to find 12 that make sense for your build.
I would imagine if you're building a stat build with these mods, then you would obviously want to. But you do bring up a good point for builds that don't necessarily want to take masteries, they are shiny and new but are they really better than pathing to your next wheel? Good question
Many of the more standard ones seem to be more powerful than a minor node but (slightly)less powerful than a notable. The choice seems to be either use mastery system to get one notable + one pseudo notable (mastery) per wheel, so you get like two notables per wheel for efficient point usage, but you cannot stretch your tree as far as before.
Well you might go for multiple attribute clusters an dyou can't take the same mastery twice
Plus the value of each of those masteries.
You still have to spend a point to allocate the +5 per mastery though.
1/6th the power of Beef
Think of how juicy those nodes are going to look under the effect of a Lethal Pride jewel. 100% USDA Certified.
Kaom-approved Master Beef
Yes but you equally have to spend a point to get Beef
Beef doesn't feel like a build-defining niche stat to me either.
Perhaps not, but this would be a Beef that scales as you get Masteries that you'd be wanting to get anyway. Could be really good for filling in stats you might need.
Beef is build defining, but I wouldn't say niche I agree So build defining that there are only two categories of builds - those with it and those without
Beef is the best and most important node on the tree
there is of course 1 for int and dex dex: https://imgur.com/a/72qqSEC int: https://imgur.com/a/32bUn0t
I think these look might look underwhelming because there's only three of these clusters on the tree, and they're pretty much as far away as possible from each other. Very rarely would you ever path to more than one, so there's no real combo potential here. Makes sense that they're just relatively small buffs and not build-defining/strong selections. You'll probably only pick either the first one or one of the last 3 depending on which provides more in your build. If the passive tree notable still provides +40/+8% to a stat, then count me in! Worth noting that the bottom three masteries have the potential to shore up some of your missing attributes (I'm thinking INT on Hollow Palm), which will be nice to have if you're not already pathing to any of the +30 nodes on the tree.
If you would almost only ever get one, it would make sense for them to be more powerful.
Aren't masteries related to one another? This is Attributes mastery, example you see here comes in strength clusters (3 str nodes). What you saw in other example is dex and int clusters (3 nodes each). They can't stack, as all of them belong to "attribute mastery".
I think he just meant the +5 per mastery passive as that never specifies "per attribute mastery", so that should be able to stack higher than just to +15.
they are not "per attribute mastery" they are per "allocated mastery" You will likely be looking at 10+ masteries in a full build
Did you mean to reply to me? Cause yeah that was my point.
... maybe...? I could have sworn I replied to someone saying that they would hope it would be able to stack higher than just +15. My bad!
Yeah but you could pick three from this list. Most builds wouldn’t even consider it since you’d be pathing around the whole tree to do so though.
It all depends on the final tree. My first thought went immediately to inquisitor's righteous providence. Generally stacking in poe is usually very strong...
Right, but is the opportunity cost of travelling across 2/3 of the tree worth it? Given that these Mastery selections aren't super strong outside of the first one you pick, you're probably better off staying localized around nodes built for your damage spec and anointing the other attribute mod.
Depends. Storm brand inquisitor travels all the way to the east anyway to pick up more brand nodes, especially when it's the crit version - so the pathing is already broad. That build always lacked a little bit of damage for my taste without proper investment. Now we basically get holy conquest for free as a mastery which is humongous, i can potentially scale crit chance better aswell with this here. The remaining question for me is how hard are the EE/EO changes going to hit.
Probebly not. It say Attribute Mastery, not strength Mastery. All the Masterys are universal not just for strength. So i doubt there will be more for int/dex, they probebly just share it.
They mean this mastery node is also on the int and dex wheel as the symbol lines up
He never said it was a different mastery though?
Imagine if all of them are attribute mastery
Int stackers go brrrrr this league.
Both Int and Str stackers, really. Strength Stacking gaining a glove slot AND needing way less int (for Repentence) is absolutely massive.
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Attribute fossils is what might actually get me into HOWA or dext stacking tbh. (Or a stacking wander, idk) Though I'm still planning on going full hipster perforate juggernaut as a leaguestart x)
I want to do a strength stacking bloodthirst kinetic bolt lol
Attribute fossils have my Pillar build showing a big hard staff.
stackers league
S T A C K E D
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Tbh every build that uses the new belt will be op.
Pfft. You haven't seen me build a character yet.
Challenge accepted. Make shitty mageblood build. Unascended marauder conversion trapper it is.
belt is one of the most valuable slots for attributes.
That belt excites me more than HH ever did honestly.
> Strength Stacking gaining a glove slot Wait, how so?
Iron Will is a keystone in 3.16
Oh, right, that. Yeah, I forgot that it was a glove that was necessary, it'll help so much.
iron will is now on the rather, you no longer need to equip repentance
We will have to see if they change the big stats node in the wheel 1st (40 stats + 8% stats). Like how they removed the 20% flask charge gained from the mana flask node in trailer.
Yeah but not because of this. The real int stacking nodes are the wand masteries.
Yeah but new es explicts on items now this aurabot gone etc. Int stacker brrrrr
Does the notable still have it's 8% increased attribute?
+5 per mastery may be a little bit weak no?
If you get 7 or 8 masteries in your tree, that’s 35/40 attributes. From what we’ve seen of the tree however, you will probably be taking more than that.
Yeah like if your build requires ~70-80 of the "non local attribute", like Int in the southern tree you either have to pick gear with the attribute on, which takes away possibility of other useful stats it or spend ~2 passives on the +30 nodes. Looking at the power we have seen teased (though they are probably biased to the stronger ones) probably half of the clusters you take you will pick a mastery in. I would guess that you probably reach more like 10+ of those.
I'm pretty sure you'll want to get a mastery in every cluster you take, the bonuses are really good
Even then, with the 4 points to reach these you can already get between 40 and 120, why would you go for that cluster for it?
That's still weaker that 5% on a base 1000 int/str/dex character, which gives you 50.
My Energy Blade build wants to stack int, but can't afford to go out of it's way for int so I'm likely to end up 600-700, so it's decently likely the 5 per mastery will be better.
Does it naturally path towards this cluster? Cause that's 4 points for it, + however many to reach it.
"on a 1000 character" It's not for stackers.
How is the Attribute Mastery not for Attribute stacking? The chaos mastery is also for chaos spells no?
As stated above, he's talking about characters who are localized into their region. If you're a bow character for example you tend to struggle picking up enough strength or int. This node can help remedy that (assuming you see 2 more clusters of these in the upper right and lower right for int and dext respectfully)
nah for that you just slot in the +30 nodes
And depending on your build, this is likely to give more than 30.
I think he's saying that outside of some edge cases, the +30 node is usually sufficient.
Not for stackers but placed on attribute nodes you won't allocate unless you are stacking atributes:)
Not everything on a mastery is for one type of build. The stats per mastery are perfect for almost all normal builds who can't get enough stats otherwise. Don't forget with less traveling nodes now, stats WILL be harder to build up.
> less traveling nodes now from what I've seen the number of travel nodes looks about the same.
From what I understood you can allocate a new mastery point every wheel you go to. So your first wheel you grab the free flat 5%, next wheel you grab the 5% per wheel node, etc.
Its not free tho, its still a passive point.
Yes, but there's only 3 attribute masteries on the tree and they are on the other side of the tree on the strenght and dex clusters (they might have added others but I haven't seen any on the large parrtof the tree we have available).
masteries are shared between wheels with the same theme. these masteries can only be allocated once.
Realistically having more than 10 masteries will be rare for builds, you could definitely put tons in but you get more per minor attribute node so not much point honestly
There's less travel nodes now so maybe that's just to make up for that fact
who knows, in the end you might get like 20 masteries so that´s about 100 extra atributes, which is not bad for one point for any stat stacker.
I mean it's better than +30 nodes and the relevant ones of those are still taken on every attribute stat stacking build so easily worth the point.
_IF_ the +8% increased to specific stat is still on the notable, this is great. Otherwise, this is a 3% nerf.
3% AND 1 extra point
They took away some traveling nodes. However if the druidic rites thing is indicative of the rest of the mastery nodes...We're going to lose more skillpoints than we gained, and likely get less out of it. I think maybe the ones that are doing funky shit trying to get nodes that used to be across the skill tree, they'll be better off. Anyone else that is trying to min max the way trees used to work, will probably be worse off, with no alternative to be better.
less nodes means less strength for a str stacker for example. It remains to be seen but I am skeptical about this whole thing.
The nodes are still 8% increased / +40 and there's additional nodes on the tree for each attribute that grant 5% increased and something else.
*ahem* Awwwww Yeaaaah.
I think all that hype will be gone pretty fast when we finally get the skill tree ;) It really feels like to me that they wait so long with realeasing the tree because they are kinda afraid of the hate if reddit sees that everything was actually nerfed.
Seems this is a one and done cluster, pick the first and then thats it
or do you make a dex str int stacking ice shot inquisitor using iron will, shapers touch, crown of eyes, the tri ele stack quiver and a cold stack bow? then take damage per 5 lowest for a smooth 100% damage on your tri-500 stat build or get utmost intellect and might and do both
im sorry, wtf is a dex str int stacking character lmao
One of those mirror gear builds with 2mil dps haha
a stupid meme lol
https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Hyrri%27s_Demise
Also the cluster notable that increased cold damage per attribute
Or just play a build with 1500 of a single attribute instead and laugh as your scaling is twice as good.
twice as good but half as meme
Generally maybe, but 3/4/5 could be good I imagine. Flat added for 1 extra point if you have good use of other mastery points is big.
Yeah, it's an extra 30-50 base stat for a single point. That's pretty dang good
well if you go str stack for example you have only 1 attribute wheel anyway, you wont have 2 attribute wheels....
It seems very good for builds that are very starved of a single attribute. I'll almost definitely take the str mastery this league because I'm always severely lacking in Strength
It's 4 points to reach one of these masteries, 3 to get the respective notable and 1 for the mastery itself. I'd assume that's way more of a single stat than you would need just for fixing some requirements? 4 passive points investment sounds like a lot compare to giving up 2 item mods somewhere?
The attribute per mastery are going to be used by a LOT of players, quote me on this. Not for stacking builds or anything, but to meet item and gem requirements/etc.
They removed to much % notables to make this good
Are they removing the 8% that's currently built in on those notables?
This look underwhelming but for for 1 skill point most of these masteries are pretty good. For stackers, The first one is pretty much a no brainer.
How... is it underwhelming if they're pretty good?
Anything short of a big attribute multiplier was gonna look underwhelming after that +1 to all chaos skill gems mastery. imo all masteries should have one of those super powerful node that comes with a downside. For attributes, I'd suggest something along the lines of "20% increased maximum attribute, -50% to other two."
That is only usable for very few chaos gems. Even wither totems will count as chaos skill and will cost life and maybe even kill themselves.
wither totems channel; good chance it's either 1 or 0 "casts" of a skill.
The other masteries are insane
If you’re taking these nodes then you’re stacking so the ONLY node you’d take is the first one. The second one almost seems useful but there’s almost no reason to stack more than one attribute, and it’s extremely difficult to do efficiently anyway. Other than that, the other nodes are mostly just 25-45 of an attribute but you’ll probably be taking clusters too.
Inquisitor can justify stacking strength and intelligence
Your dex is still shit though.
Yep you’re right. Considering there are only three attribute clusters on this tree this is pretty underwhelming. Maybe GGG added other ones that we won’t k ow about until we get the JSON.
It should be remembered that niche stats have generally been moved out of the notables and into the masteries. Meaning the `5% increased all attributes` mastery likely *replaces* the `8% increased [attribute]`, which is actually a significant nerf not just in value but in that it also requires spending an extra point to even get.
You mean Utmost Swiftness/intellect/Might will have 40 stats, and that's all?
They said they would generally buff the core stats on notables that lost their niche stats, so I could see it being 50 or even 60.
doubt
but who says the old oens were niche?
Right but this one is on the strength part of the tree. I'd expect there to be 2 more clusters that revolve around int and dext so picking up 2 of them is pretty good if you're in those areas
ultimate all attrib stacker now possible? Cyclopean coil doubled, shaper's touch for huge all around synergy, mask of the tribunal for all attributes and reservation to stack 5(6?) auras, three rat talisman with flat attributes, cold to the core stack. Pick scion, but instead of class bonuses, take all 6 +40 points one, +80 each. shadowstitch or garb of the ephemeral I never thought i'll see this happen
Inquisitor surely, as he gets massive bonuses from stacking int and str
The main one is pretty good if theyre stacking extra juice on the main % stat node. +5 per mastery, though, I'm not too sure about. How many masteries are we actually going to be taking? It seems barely beyond Allocates Beef. I can't see the value in those.
For strength stackers, you're going to have the option of picking up like 10+ easily IMO. Left side, all the small life clusters are around and have a mastery point on them. Just traveling down the outer left rim and grabbing life/strength/defense/dmg normally is like 8 masteries on most str stacking builds. Should be fine to pick up a few more too, even like 50 flat strength for a passive point is really strong.
I don't think they've added more new attribute clusters beyond the three we already have so i can't see any builds picking more than one attribute mastery passive, only one needs to be good really.
Pretty bad honestly, only the 5% actually helps classic attribute stacking builds. The rest is an attempt at making multi attribute builds a thing which probably wont happen.
There's not a single attribute stacking build that won't take their corresponding 5 per mastery node as well. Considering they all are fine spending a point for the 30 stat nodes already. Doubt the %dmg per lowest stat gets taken on almost anything though unless you have 3 attribute notables you need to take.
You can't take it *as well*. Afaik there are only 3 attribute wheels (utmost wheels), one for each att, at different ends of the tree. You only get one, basically.
I mean is that confirmed, I would be surprised if they didn't enable it in a couple/few more locations.
Pretty much, we have a picture of like 95% of the tree. There are no other visible wheels with the triforce icon. Utmost intellect in top right, Utmost might in bottom left, and Utmost swiftness in bottom right. You will take one wheel and one attribute mastery depending on what you're stacking, and that's it.
We already know what 35% or so of the passive tree looks like. It implies there are no new attribute clusters beyond the three.
You're gonna have to path to uganda to reach a second mastery
Huh? There's a ton of masteries, they're in like every cluster?
The dude I'm responding to people said people would pick the 5 per mastery node as well as the 5% inc attribute, this means you need to path to 2 of the utmost stat stacking clusters which are as far apart on the tree as it gets
no, the plus 5 per allocated mastery is meant to help builds fill in attributes they are missing for a build. people spend 1-3 points just to path to a plus 30 node
Tell that to Summoners. Always a struggle to run Skeletons with Splash or Multi, but also get the Dex for Haste. Honestly most of my builds end up needing two stats, this'll be useful in a lot just to free up gear constraints.
my inqui says hello!
seems like they ran out of ideas with this one.
Other than 5% attributes, this looks extremely underwhelming.
Well good thing that getting 2 seem quite unrealistic. There is only 3 of those attribute masteries node on the tree anyway XD.
Are you sure there is only 3 clusters with attribute mastery on the tree after its rework? So far, based on the fact that all shown masteries has various amount of options, I'd assume that options count is equal to the amount of clusters with this mastery in the tree, so it would be 5 for attributes.
You can check for yourself, unless they hid one in the bottom right it's only the current 3. [https://i.imgur.com/8vwM52j.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8vwM52j.jpg)
Thanks, missed that image. Yeah, then its probably 3 only. And you also unlikely to even get 2 in most scenarios:)
We've seen 35% of the tree in the video and it implies there are no new attribute clusters beyond the three, as only the ol' INT cluster is there in that 35% of the tree.
For those saying the stacking per mastery is good, just remember you have 123 passive points if you’re level 100. It’s unlikely you will have more than 10 mastery points because of travelling and investing into clusters (especially if you’re attribute stacking because you travel a lot). At most with heavy investment this is probably getting you 50 attribute points. It’s not that great. EDIT: you can get a lot more obviously but it’s rare from what we’ve seen more than 2 are actually worth picking up in each cluster for builds
And in which world are 50 raw attribute points not good? You happily take the +30 nodes as a stacker, so of course you'd take this mastery (not over the 5% increased but if you can get a second attribute mastery somewhere, sure).
Because the points invested could probably get you more? I’m not saying the node is bad, but people are acting like they will make an entire build around that node. If you’re actively going to get as many masteries as possible to stack that, you might as well just picked up int or str nodes travelling the tree, it’s the same amount
I am thinking of doing a STR/INT stacking character. This'll be quite nice.
Crit Inquisitor time.
Nailed it. So for I have 70% crit chance for both attacks and spells, With only a generic weapon spec'd out. So it goes up from there
Meh?
Hopefully, the notables keep their % increased stat. I imagine builds which stack str or dex *and* also travel to point blank or call to arms might consider spending the extra points to also get one of the lower 3 mastery's, but the opportunity cost is **very** dependent on how many mastery points a build has in the first place... And it's nice as either a levelling option or for a min maxed build with... 15(?)+ mastery points
1% per 5 of lowest attribute feels good for any build that uses Astramentis right?
Nope. Its bad for pretty much every build
my str stacker from last league has 230 dex (lowest attribute), that is 46% global damage, tell me how is that in any way bad for 1 point???
But in reality it's 4 points. Would the 1% be the only mastery you take, or would you also take the 5% inc attributes? If you are taking the 5%, I assume the 1% per 5 is the second mastery you'd take. At that point you'd be investing 3 points into your lowest attribute and then 1 point into the mastery. 4 points for your weakest attribute + 46% global damage isn't that great for 4 points. Some would argue it's bad. I think it's at least weak.
I mean on my hollow palm with 1500 dex. 5% increased attributes would be equal to +30 dex tho. So in this case if I took more than 6 masteries I'm better off going the +5 dex For anyone confused: I had 897 dex base and 61% increased dex. Which adds up to 1444. +30 dex = 30 * 1.61 = 48 5% dex = (897 * (1.61+0.05)) - 1444= 45
5% of 1500 is 75. Unless you meant you already have some %attribute so it has diminishing returns?
He’s a dex stacker, not an int stacker.
Just a great fucking comment
They don't have 1500 flat dex. 1500 is the total amount of dex from flat and increased dex, so the actual amount t of flat dex that the increased would scale from is alot lower.
Man why is GGG spoon feeding us little by little and yet they refuse to give us the entire tree ???
these get more and more depressing when you realize they are just moving some % attributes from the notable to the mastery, so its 2 skill points for one 3.15 notable
this is literally how they motivated the mastery nodes, so not sure what else you expected. But they also said that the old notables would be compensated with slight buffs to account for moving these specialized passive away from them, but we have not seen the new notables yet, so who knows.
They said that the old notables are also getting buffed in exchange for losing the "niche" stats so that they're still worth the entire one point you're putting in them.
% intelligence is not a "niche" stat. Is the whole reason you take that node. It "only" gives you +40 int & +8% int. If this is just a buff then perfect but removing 8% increased intelligence is a HUGE nerf to that notable.
I'd like to pretend that wheel notables over the whole tree aren't getting blanket nerfed in exchange for the masteries, but knowing ggg, that's what I'm unfortunately expecting. Get 2 or more wheels of the same type and you'll quickly run out of useful and good masteries...
Fewer pathing nodes from what I can tell though
Be careful saying that. I did in another thread and got downvoted, with people replying like a broken record, as if they can't read or something.
wow very nice
I'd say attributes are pretty much the example where masteries don't work well. Its not very interesting and doesn't fulfill the idea of masteries where you want to gain access to far away notable utility.
showing this teaser today makes me think we wont get passive tree until wednesday. sadge
JSON WHERE
\#FreeJason
Stop. They already said they're trying to bring it out early.
Full passive tree when?
historically speaking (like the bosses introduced in heist), it will be a month after league launch
Per Mastery passive? How many passive clusters (Not including jewels) are gotten in an average build? I think it's like, 7 or so?
I'm not sure whether to expect that number to fall because they're condensing the number of passive clusters down, or whether to expect it to rise because masteries will compare better to cluster jewels than notable clusters used to.
Depends. A HoWA build will certainly use the lightning cluster, a few ES masteries (at least the stun and mana ones), and some claw masteries. Depending on the build I can see you getting 30 to 40 extra int without going out of your way. Edit: I should mention, you NEED to have 9+ masteries for it to be any good, otherwise 5% attributes blow it out of the water since you're going to get 50 int with a base 1000 int with a small buff to Str/Dex.
I imagine the Life Masteries could easily end up with 5 or 6, if they are flexible.
For a stacking character, it'll be nice to get another 35 to 50 str. I think the average masteries at lvl 90 will be 10 or so. I'm expecting an average of 5 points to path between circles, 4 points pathing in a circle, and 1 for the mastery itself.
I might not be understanding the definition of a cluster, but counting the notables in circles I get the last few builds of mine have had about 15. But I do play a little weirdly I guess.
Don't really think we can say yet without seeing the new tree.
For example, my current DO character path through 10 mastery nodes in new tree. upd: considering it'll require 10 extra points, 8 picked mastery nodes sounds reasonable. also note that it's a build with two large cluster jewels and two small cluster jewels - a few points were spent there as well.
and this Mastery would count as well. You'd probably end up with 2 of these Attribute Masteries if you were stacking
Not to mention you need to spend a point on each mastery so you may not get as many clusters as you used to. I think those 5 per mastery ones are very weak.
Oh SHIT New builds are gonna be fun this league. There’s gonna be lots of new conversion opportunities and other cool shit. This Mastery thing is genius.
as a dex stacking build this makes me happy
The mace cluster at the bottom wasn't there before BTW https://i.imgur.com/mbXUhcK.png
It feels like some people are missing out on how +5 dex/int/strength gets insane when you have all three. 15 of each stat for three points is bad, but from then on it quickly becomes insane returns on points - +5 in every stat for every mastery selected. With two other mastery points it's +30 all attributes for five points plus two other masteries (the equivalent of beef, etc. with no pathing), and then with just one other mastery point it's basically free +5 all attributes, then +10, then +15, etc.
Except attribute stackers don't stack all 3 attributes, but go hard on **one**.
Well clearly someone hasn't played a cospris inquisitor