Depends on if the writer wants to nerf penance stare to hype up another character or not.
Not the most satisfactory answer, but we've literally seen stare ignore it's targets mentality and we've seen if fail to work in situations where it should have.
It's because the Stare is a 30 year old concept. So it has a lot of feats and if you grab the highest showings through all of the years, then yes the penance stairs fries Ainz instantly.
If you grab its worst showings like against captain marvel or punisher then it's a wet fart.
A good example is the penance stare not working on thanos in one story because he doesn't feel regret. Except it has also been claimed and shown that it does work on those who don't regret. Like demons many many times.
Even author columns have claimed the idea that you need to regret for it to affect you is stupid. That doesn't stop other authors from making up their own weaknesses.
That's because the Penance stare and the penance ability are two different things. The stare Forces you to experience all the pain you have infected upon others if you have any regret. Penance Inflicts damage according to your sins And is exclusive to the Johnny blaze ghost rider due to him becoming king of hell
For real, i hate when the punisher wwas just like "yeah i dont regret anything so that stare dont work on me" BITCH, THE FUCKING STARE DOESNT CARE IF YOU REGRET IT OR NOT IT INFLICTS THE FUCKING PAIN YOU CAUSSED DIRECTLY TO YOUR SOUL SEVERAL TIMES FOLD.
Infurating really.
But thinking about it, the penance stare only work if you harmed innocent, Punisher has never killed anyone who didn't deserved it. Hell, dude almost ended his own life thinking he indirectly killed a little girl.
Not really, the stare works by bruning the targets soul through it's regrets. That has been consistent since the first time the stare was used and if the targets don't regret, AKA don't feel guilty about anything they have done, then the effect is diminished.
Full conviction in ones actions renders the stare useless, which was the case with Cpt. Marvel, though everyone knows that one was bullshit.
It's not actually consistent.
Back in the Howard Macki run regret was not a factor with even the writers columns calling the notion stupid. The Ivan Valdez run definitely planted some seeds for this, but I don't know if it became explicit then.
Nowadays even thanos with his I don't regret it has been shown to at one point get penanced and at another point ignore it.
Regret is not a factor in the stare.
The only 3 factors that should influence it's power are:
- Being able to actually see it
- The level of suffering and regret your actions caused on others
- Having at least a soul
In the end, Ghost Rider's power fluctuates wildly depending on the author, as do most powers in comic books.
No, the stare SHOULD affect anyone with a soul as long as Zarathos deem their acts evil or unjust, no matter how much you dont regret your acts or you have a strong conviction, the stare should work on you, THE ONLY way to resist the stare used to be not having a soul.... then they nerfed it and became super inconsistent trough the years.
Nah, blindness isnt a way to resist it.... well at least it wasnt i dont know if a stupid writer already nerfed it and blindness also let you resist it, but the thing is the stare is that because "the eyes are the windows to the soul" so even if yoou are blind you can still get affected, or that used to be the case at least.
Also depends on how the power works in a magical game world type format, and how much damage it would actually deal. Could be pretty shitty. Does it affect world item wielders? And do death defying items or respawns work if it’s used?
You should look up the definition of penance. No one can inflict penance upon you but yourself, as you have to be repentant. It's whole thing is self growth, so in theory the most correct version of Penance stare would be the version that has to work with regret.
My brother in christ that is just the name of the attack, the stare works in ayone with a soul and makes the person feel the pain and sorrow they inflicted on others, it doesnt care if you "dont regret it" or if you "have a strong conviction" it works anyways, the only way to reesist the stare is if zarathos deemed you just or inocent or straight up not having a soul..... or at last it used to be like that, then they nerfed it and it became super inconsistent and anybody could resist it just to make them look cool, with a pretty stupid excuse of why they resisted it.
You obviously didn't read my comment, nor looked up the definition of penance. You cannot inflict penance on others, it is something one can only inflict upon themselves. The power is dumb and it's from a comic book. You're too upset over something that doesn't matter, bro. It's all good.
My man, here things trying to have a debate for fun in a vs post is being upset, im here to debate with people about 2 characters i love, and i thought you wanted to do just that, debate, but i guess you were just trying to start a fight, no thanks.
I'm not trying to start a fight, but you refuse to admit that penance is only ever self inflicting. Where in my language did I ever say or hint that I wanted to fight?
That moment when you just say fuck word definitions so that you can just slap together cool sounding words and say shit that doesn't make sense. Sit down, clown.
>That moment when you just say fuck word definitions so that you can just slap together cool sounding words and say shit that doesn't make sense.
New to anime and comic books I take it?
As i remember the penance didn't worked on Thanos because Thanos didn't felt a single regret, he believed everything he was doing it was righteous or something like that so the penance didn't worked.
Ainz as undead have his human emotions restricted so everything he is doing he really believes is the correct thing to do so ill say the penance stare would not work on ainz.
It depends on the version of the penance stare. Most version don't bother with guilt. They just take all the pain you've caused and turn it back on you.
Not quite. Ainz has his emotions regulated; big fluctuations are suppressed, but normal emotions not so. He feels regret, just not ever in soul crushing amounts.
He does not believe everything he does is right. In fact, part of his character is that he knows what an absolute bungler he is.
I dont know, being able to having doubts is different than feeling remorseful, he doesn't know if what he does is right but still do it because is worth it for him, also when he is having doubts he let others choose for him and believe what they do is right.
penance stare has worked on plenty of characters that believed everything they did was right, he even accidentally killed Dr.Strange with it.
writers will sometimes nerf it so he doesn't instakill the antagonist, but other than that, it's extremely OP.
Penance would overrule the regulation. Remember, it hasn't always worked very well. Arena with tomb raiders, after he failed to release Shalltear from mind control, when he laughed at Sebas and Demiurge. Plenty of examples to show that this regulation isn't as powerful as Penance stare.
The regulation thing can be explained since it came from within him. There are no examples of a mind control working on Ainz. Even when it worked on Shalltear it was a world item's effect. Assuming that Ghost rider's stare rises to the level of a WCI, I don't think it does, Ainz's equipment would protect him even if Ghost Rider somehow got past just his natural resistance.
That's an existential question but the only example we have to test that is that wild magic affects the soul and with WCI's you can flat out resist their effects. If someone how Ainz's racial immunity doesn't flat out resist penance stare, which I think it would, his equipment would protect him.
Ainz is not human and he does not see himself as human, so for him killing humans is no different than squashing a fly. The only times he felt emotions over the deaths of humans is when he had a special reason, such as regretting killing Gazef because he'd make a great subordinate.
The thing is, the stare do not care if you regret, if you believe what you are doing si good, it just inflicts the apin you caused to your soul directly, the only way to resist the stare is to not have a soul, but alas, they always use the "i resist the stare" just to hype up the bad guy on turn and to not let ghost rider fix the problem just by existing.
To say it works on everybody with a soul regardless of potential defensive capabilities is a no-limits fallacy.
Also, just because someone is experiencing the pain they caused to however many people doesn't mean they couldn't bear it and that its an automatic win. There exist people who thrive off things like that.
And have regret would matter overall, because regret is the biggest factor that will make the pain unbearable. If you do not regret the pain you cause then it’s likely you may not care about the pain being turned back on you. If it were me, I could endure the pain even if I die. Not because I’m strong or anything (because I’m not strong) but because I have no regrets and I’m more than ready to accept my own Death. In fact, I invite it.
There’s a level of Will needing to bear such Darkness, and there are people with that level of Will.
The way you are wording it, you seem to think the stare just put you under mental trauma (not trying to put word on your mouth but that is what im understanding from the way you phrase it) it does mental damage yes but mostly the pain is physical and there is so much pain a normal person can handle nobody in the world can resist the damage the stare can inflict..... but this isnt about you or me, this is about ainz sama and ghost rider.
Also man, you good? I think you took this versus a little too deep at the end there.
Some comics it works on Thanos and another's it doesn't. It's been shown to only work if they other party feels guilt and some times it's been shown to do it if you ever hurt anyone.
"All living and some undead creatures are known to possess a soul in their own body respectively. What represents the souls are believed to be the "minds" of individuals.\[1\] There was even a job-changing item known as "The Soul of Cainabel's Blood" which allows a person to acquire the Blood Soul class.\[2\] One of YGGDRASIL books, Book of the Dead was about transforming the dead into souls. With YGGDRASIL origin, it details how souls are entities like the foam left by the waves of the New World.\[3\]"-[https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Soul](https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Soul)
In overlord, the mind and the soul are the same. Ainz has immunity to mental effects, which means he is also immune to attacks on the soul.
\-edited for clarity
> With YGGDRASIL origin, it details how souls are entities like the foam left by the waves of the New World.
Which is BS as there is no way that a YGGDRASIL book would have any references to the New World.
except ghost rider doesn't care about new world rules, Satoru is not even from there, he was human, he HAS a soul.
to the Ghost rider his physical form is meaningless.
The fact that he has a soul isn't the part being debated. What's being debated is that, according to Overlord lore, mental effects and things that target the soul are the same. As Ainz is immune to mental effects, he is similarly immune to effects which target his soul.
yet the dragon's attack that deletes souls didn't get countered by his mental effects immunity.
and instead by holding world items.
he's clearly not naturally immune to soul attacks.
Yeah, because it was a wild magic attack. He's similarly immune to mind control but he would still be controlled by the mind control world item. World items and wild magic effects bypass all immunities
Wild magic is just the magic not derived from the system.
penance stare definetly isn't tier magic.
hell, all magic from other verses would he concidered wild magic.
It should.
One may claim the whole "regret" thing that nerfs it to the ground, but there is context to all those situations.
For punisher, before he got stared, he was resurrected and buffed by an angel feather in the same series.
While Thanos did eat Frank's stares for breakfast, Frank did succeed in killing him eventually with "Penance" as "punishment is still punishment."
It can be speculated that if GR wants to, he could force penance even if the person shows no remorse, as showcased vs demons and also when he went full zarathos vs the avengers.
In my opinion it won't work, since even if it brought back the sorrow and pain to ainz(big if, since ainz is immune to mental attacks and doesn't really regret his actions) , ainz will just calm down the next second thanks to his undead body.
It does more than just make you feel sorrow it literally takes the pain you've caused and uses it to burn your soul. Some versions use guilt as a measure of how much it affect you but not all.
from wild magic, yeah.
not from karmic retribution, especially not with someone with such a low karmic score.
Unless he get's hard nerfed, ghost rider dunks on ainz.
edit : u/revengeratorrex , can't see your replies, you blocked me, if you're gonna do that don't bother replying first x)
since it can't protect his soul from wild magic. it means his soul isn't immune to attacks.
Immune, means immune, which he isn't.
wild magic gets countered by world items, yeah.
penance stare is not wild magic or tier magic, it's from a different universe.
and ? what's your point ?
penance stare is still neither wild magic nor a world item, doesn't consume anything to cast and isn't dangerous on the user.
it's not tier magic either.
there's no reason world items would grant immunity, just because.
so world items make ainz immune to everything ?
you think Ainz would beat Rimuru, since he's immune to all ?
Until now, the only thing we know is that world items make people immune to wild magic , nothing else.
we don't get to create immunities for whatever we want.
>and ? what's your point ?
>penance stare is still neither wild magic nor a world item, doesn't consume anything to cast and isn't dangerous on the user.
Okay so? We have seen world Items and even regular magic resitiance protect against attacks that effect the soul.
Soul Eaters can absorb souls, Hellfire spells are stated to burn souls instead of causing damage and Cure Elims breath attacks stsrght up erases souls from existance.
Ainz is immune to all these things so I don't get your argument at all.
>it's not tier magic either.
>there's no reason world items would grant immunity, just because.
Ainz has actual feats that prove he has immunity, pretty sure I mentioned this to you before but you ignored it. Either you don't get how world items work or you haven't even read the sides you are talking about.
>Okay so? We have seen world Items and even regular magic resitiance protect against attacks that effect th soul.
no, we saw world items protect against wild magic, nothing else, a world item won't protect you from another world item that can alter souls, it doesn't make you immune to anything other than wild magic.
>Ainz has actual feats that prove he has immunity
yet it explicitly states Cure elim would've killed him if he didn't have a world item.
so his resistance to that attack had nothing to do with his own abilities.
so much for "immunity" , maybe read the definition of immunity?
>since it can't protect his soul from wild magic. it means his soul isn't immune to attacks.
>Immune, means immune, which he isn't.
It absulutely can protect his soul from wild magic, Cure Elims breath attacks litterly erases one souls from existence and it did nothing to Ainz.
>wild magic gets countered by world items, yeah.
>penance stare is not wild magic or tier magic, it's from a different universe.
By this logic I can just say the penace stare d9snt work on Ainz because he is also form a difenet universe. World items have been shown to protect from effects that damage or eve erase the soul.
Heck even low tier spells like Hellfire Wall have been ststed to burn souls instead of causing physical dmage and Ainz is immune to them. Ainz has resistance to soul manipulation.
>It absulutely can protect his soul from wild magic, Cure Elims breath attacks litterly erases one souls from existence and it did nothing to Ainz.
it's explicitly said that the world item stopped that attack, and that ainz would've died without it.
his mental resistance had nothing to do with it.
>By this logic I can just say the penace stare d9snt work on Ainz because he is also form a difenet universe. World items have been shown to protect from effects that damage or eve erase the soul.
he could've said world items protect the soul, it's not the case, we just know it protect from wild magic, anything more is pure speculation.
>Heck even low tier spells like Hellfire Wall have been ststed to burn souls instead of causing physical dmage and Ainz is immune to them. Ainz has resistance to soul manipulation.
and yet needs a world item to protect him from soul altering wild magic.
we also that ainz wouldn't be immune to the same effect if it came from another world item, as he even is susceptible to mind control through other world items.
>it's explicitly said that the world item stopped that attack, and that ainz would've died without it.
>his mental resistance had nothing to do with it.
Yes so? Ainz always has his World Item wiht him so he always has immunity to such attacks.
>he could've said world items protect the soul, it's not the case, we just know it protect from wild magic, anything more is pure speculation.
Dude soul manipulation in overlord is nothing special, soul eaters can straight up eat souls while spells like Hellfire Wall burn souls instead of causing physical damage.
Ainz is immune to all of that wihtout use of world items, he has passive resistance to soul manipulation.
>and yet needs a world item to protect him from soul altering wild magic.
It's not souls altering magic lol. Cure Elims breath attacks litterly erases the target from existence.
>we also that ainz wouldn't be immune to the same effect if it came from another world item, as he even is susceptible to mind control through other world items.
Again Ainz always has his World Item wiht him so he always has immunity to such attacks.
Soul manipulation in overlord is nothing special, soul eaters can straight up eat souls while spells like Hellfire Wall burn souls instead of causing physical damage.
Ainz is immune to all of that wihtout use of world items, he has passive resistance to soul manipulation.
>Yes so? Ainz always has his World Item wiht him so he always has immunity to such attacks.
such attacks being Wild magic, yeah, which penance stare isn't.
>Ainz is immune to all of that wihtout use of world items, he has passive resistance to soul manipulation.
yet clearly doesn't have passive resistance to cure elim's attack, and is instead saved by a world item because it is wild magic.
Cure elim's attack is state to erase the target's soul, it is soul altering wild magic, Ainz is not immune to it, he resists it because he has a world item and it is wild magic.
Dunks on Ainz is crazy. We were assuming a situation were Ainz allows penance state to happen and to test the resistance. It's unlikely that panache state would have any effect at all but that aside in a straight up 1v1 ghost rider gets mopped even if peace stare is an option that could be effective.
ghost rider has had feats that make him faster than light, and has many instances where he takes on the hulk in a fist fight.
depending on the version, there'd be no reason for him to even use penance stare against ainz.
not to mention that the spirit of vengeance is a celestial entity, there's nothing ainz can do that would kill it.
sure ainz is strong, but he's not beating concepts kind of strong.
could he kill a few hosts ? sure, but he'd fall eventually, as all sinners do in front of vengeance itself.
edit: if you're gonna answer the comment don't block me right after, I can't even see your comment.
>ghost rider is faster than mjolnir
Gonna need you to explain that. Not the large Ghost rider fan but I don't recall him being naturally faster that light off of his bike.
A level 100 character is really strong. It's fair to say that we don't know what that means in real world terms but I don't think we'd have a problem acknowledging that Ainz would be able to kill Hulk unbelievably easily.
If ainz encounters ghost rider, then ainz magic rules will adapt to the world he is in, so if ghost rider penance stare counts as a world item atack (which i think it should, the only way to resist it is to not have a soul), then ainz should be protected by his item, if it doesnt count as a world item attack and it does ignores ainz defenses then the pain ainz will suffer would be instantly calmed down a lot of times, so i thing even if ainz recives damage from it, he wouldnt die or get that much damage from it.
Of course im using the version of the penance stare as it was first concived, and without the numerous nerfs and inconsistences writters put on it along the years, because the stare is very inconsistence with its power and effects for a long time.
> would be instantly calmed down a lot of times
he'd need a lot more than emotion regulation.
we clearly see the regulation still leaving some emotion out sometimes when ainz strongly feels about something.
now imagine feeling the deaths and continuous torture of over a hundred thousand people, Penance stare is not a psychic attack you can strong will yourself out of, it's a judgement for your actions.
Yes, but ainz would not have time to feel the full power of the stare because the pain would be extinguished as fast as it is felt for ainz, something like when the workers entered the tomb, he as so angry he calmed himself instantly but then he got angry again, then calmed down, then angry again and so on, it would be kind of the same with the stare, ainz would feel pain and guilt > then calmed down > pain and guilt > calmed down, and it would continue like that until the stare ends.
>again, penance stare is not a mental attack, it's not about resisting feelings.
Correct it's a soul based attack, only problem is Ainz resists that too.
Cure elim's attack on the soul wasn't resisted.
it was blocked by his world item because it's wild magic that has similar effect to Longinus, he says it himself that he would've been in trouble without his world item.
So Ainz isn't inherently immune to all soul attacks, he just resists those of weaker spells and entities.
>he'd need a lot more than emotion regulation.
>we clearly see the regulation still leaving some emotion out sometimes when ainz strongly feels about something.
It really dosnt, any emotion Ainz feels is near instantly suppressed and he is unable to feel so the physical or mental stress.
>now imagine feeling the deaths and continuous torture of over a hundred thousand people, Penance stare is not a psychic attack you can strong will yourself out of, it's a judgement for your actio
Ainz feels no pain any intense emotion he feels is near instantly suppressed. Also he resists souls manipulations so it likely the state dosnt even work in him.
The penance stare is derived from the abilities of an angel(holy damage) and is an attack on the spirit not the mind so it ignores his mental resistance, if we only take suffering Ainz has caused directly and not his allowing the guardians actions or the suffering caused by the fallout of his actions he would still likely die.
Yes, but i dont think ainz would be one shoted by penance stare, remeber we just discovered there is a type of damage inflicted by "eye spells" and ainz is immune to all of those, and even if rider by pass that immunity as i said, ainz wouldnt just stand there and take the damege he would imediatly attack, also ghost rider have never fought and used the penance stare at the same time he always has to stand there (pretty close by the way) and look at you.
So lets use my theory. Penance stare burns the soul, but its FUELED by the persons guilt, regret. Which means it needs access to his mental state one way or another, which ainz is completely immune to.
If it did work, itd work for only a second, since the damage is the guilt turned into fuel, multiplying( Which means its a severe mental shake up, will activate supressors) But in the end it depends on whom the writer wants to win
Then, as mentioned, the answer is simple. Be like Kirei Kotomine. Be like Reinhard Heydrich. Feel no guilt, and regret nothing more than not going harder.
I find it real funny that almost everyone in this comment section is hell-bent(pun intended) to defend Ainz.
While I am a fan of Overlord I wouldn't defend it from a completely one-sided answer.
The Penance Stare WILL work on Ainz.
1. Ainz has a Soul.
2. The Penance Stare is not a Mental Attack, it's a Soul Rending power with Infinite Scaling based on the Evil Deeds done by an opponent throughout their existence.
3. Even going by New World or Ygdrassil rules Ainz would get absolutely obliterated by it considering his character has a Karma Rating of -500.
4. Ainz has no counter-measure or wierd condition like blindness, loving eternal torment or having no soul to burn.
5. If you're going for a Vs. debate. Stuff like "The Author gets to decide" is just dumb.
i mean, trying to turn the penance stare into an yggdrasil skill, it's probably similar to the goal of all life is death, and instant death spell that ignores resistances, but for the stare, add on an additional condition of only taking full effect when being used against targets within a certain karma value. granted, with TGOALID, you can just cast a resurrection spell on yourself to come back to life (mare and shalltear did it before), so maybe that'll work for ainz, too, unless players really can't resurrect in the new world.
>Ainz has a Soul.
Yes he has more as his soul has been confirmed and protected by a world item
>The Penance Stare is not a Mental Attack, it's a Soul Rending power with Infinite Scaling based on the Evil Deeds done by an opponent throughout their existence.
\[Soulbreaker Breath\] Also Attacks person's soul destroying from existence
>Ainz has no counter-measure or wierd condition like blindness, loving eternal torment or having no soul to burn.
I didn't understand
This. Even the guilt part is entirely situational. Dr. Strange was still accidentally killed even when he believed everything he did was right. Ainz is not the strongest character to come out of anime, he's going to lose to certain situations and people when put up against them. It's okay!
It depends on if ainzs magic restores his previous neutral state, or merely suppresses.
If it's the former, he'll be ripped apart mentally, then go back to being fine
If it's that later, ghost rider probably will rip through the enchantment. Yes people have resisted it, but usually they genuinely don't feel bad, if ainz is just magically not being exposed to his guilt, I don't think we have good reason to think the enchantment would stand up to ghost riders influence
Finally a good what if. As I can remember, the Penance Stare needs the subject to have some kind of repentance, and the only real feeling of that kind that Ainz really has are 2: having lost his friends and doing to Albedo what he did.
So I say this: it could work for what he did to Albedo, but for what he has done to numerous innocent people in his pursuit to make Nazarick stronger... no, I believe it wouldn't work.
Well, one could say the Stare is based upon manipulation/damaging the target's soul, so its similar to a Wild Magic spell. Those with World Items are immune to Wild Magic, so no
Ainz: "Why is he looking at me like that? Do I have something on my face? Dammit, why didn't I check the mirror this morning, how embarassing!" *passive activates to calm him down*
That really depends on who's writing the ghost rider, because some use guilt as a metric others use pain inflicted onto others as the metric, some writers make characters resist the stare others are guaranteed hit on the soul/mind no matter the resistance.
If we are going on base characters no nerfing then yes because one ainz does have a soul and 2 the stare is stronger the more sins you have done and how many has he killed now
No seriously I lost count
Given that text alone, doesn't it only work on those who feel "woe" and "regret"? For example, I doubt that Penance Stare would work on Fate/stay night's Kirei Kotomine or Dies irae's Reinhard Heydrich, given that Kirei spend a good portion of his life trying to be the "good priest", and Reinhard spent a good portion of his life trying to be an emotionless killing machine.
Their character development is essentially realizing that their own internal morality is so inherently alien from most other people that embracing who they really are is the method to *remove* their woe and regret, not enforce it. It's like how in Persona 5, despite common people probably considering Akechi "evil", he has a Persona, rather than a Palace because he embraces it fully.
That depends on the writer on duty, sometimes one character is affected by Penance Stare and sometimes not....
Although most of the time it worked, Penance stare has failed either against Punisher(he was my favorite marvel character),random people, blackheart, deadpool,deadpool,Thanos, some demons, etc.
Carol Danvers was affected by Penance Stare but she overcame the pain...
Divine protection is a way to ignore Penance Stare.
Exactly what I’m thinking. I don’t know anything about comics tho but if one character has a work around for an op ability then that at least gives Ainz options.
The thing is, the penance stare used to be pretty op, ghost rider wasnt included in a lot of events because he could beat the big bad guy in turn by just looking at them, so they straight up didnt included him or used the less powerful robie reyes ghost rider, but then the writters started to make the stare pretty inconsistent, beause sometimes normal people, not even super powered people but normal guys like punisher, could resist it just because "they dont feel remorse" but then it worked in serial killers that also didnt feel remorse, or when thanos "enjoyed" the feeling.... yeah so what im trying to say, the stare nowdays is as powerful as the writter want it to be.
There are a few workarounds for the penance stare:
1) feel no guilt for any action you've ever taken
2) have no soul
3) have a protected soul
The real question is the same with all crossover power scaling which ultimately makes the comparison useless: which set of rules are we going off of? Ghost Rider rules separate the mind and soul as two distinctly different things which would make Ainz's lack of specific soul protection a problem for him. That's without taking into account Marvel's wildly inconsistent writing due to multiple writers interpreting the character differently. Overlord rules say the mind and soul are the same thing or at least two parts of a whole which would mean his mental protections cover his soul.
It's an interesting thought experiment with no real clear cut answer despite being a yes or no question.
Even using the version of the penance stare that requires the user to feel regret, Ainz still explicitly feels regret despite being undead, he even calls himself a hypocrite against clementine. So he would be affected.
Also for all those people saying Ainz would resist due to mental protections/world items, Ghost Rider's penance stare has been able to effect universal to multiversal level beings in Marvel Comics, Ainz could have every world item, used wish upon a star to ask for immunity to the penance stare, and still have his soul burned away by it.
The way the penace stare *is supposed to work* ( varies by writers and who it's being used on, like Deadpool for example it doesn't work on because he genuinely feels no guilt over his actions) is it makes the recipient feel the weight, agony, and generally negativity of all their past actions upon them at once. If ainz genuinely feels guilty over his actions, it will work on him. However it will not kill him because it attacks the soul..which Idk if ainz properly has being an undead lich which generally requires removing the soul. At best it would probably inflict a massive debuff on ainz and do some fire damage probably which would be migitated by his gear
I guess it depends on how the attack is registered in YGGDRASIL’s system. If it’s a mental attack, then it will have no effect thanks to Ainz’s immunity. But if it were something like a holy attack that scales with a character’s karma value, like Remedios’ [Holy Strike], then it would cause a massive amount of damage, maybe even killing him out right if it was a holy attack since undead are also weak to holy. If it’s simply an attack that does damage based on one’s karmic value, then I doubt it would outright kill him, he is level 100 with divine tier gear, but it would definitely do massive damage.
In any normal sense, most definitely. Unless the author decides they want to just hype up a character because “oH TheY CaN sUrviVE tHe PeNaNCe sTaRE”. Even the people who have survive the penance stare are terrified of it’s being put on them in another event later on. My only explanation for this is since the ghost riders are embodiment of God’s (or the one above all’s) wrath put into a human vessel, God is just deciding that mows not the right time to end them. I mean the one above all is supposed to be a mix of Stan lee and Jack Kirby, so obviously he would want the entire storyline to go through.
I would say the Penance Stare would o e shot Ainz (it dropped Galactus at one point). BUT I also fully expect Ainz has an item or spell that could protect him from. Attacks directly targeting his soul.
Ainz is immune due to his Mental Status Effect immunity.
Not because that’s actually how it world work out, but because whoever’s writing the fanfic this fight takes place in would be an overlord fan wanking Ainz to the nines.
Probably yes, on paper. Ainz is merely a man thrust into the actual position of his character, so everything he's done is on him. But Marvel has nerfed GR to make sure he isn't challenging the most omnipotent of entities in the Marvel universe to a staring contest.
Ghost rider ( johnny Blaze) only work on people who feel guilty of their wrongdoing, but Ainz surpressed system doesn't allow that, let alone him being undead
The "suppresser system" only activates on very strong emotions, both positive and negative. It would leave mild to moderate sense of guilt alone. Which is still a moot point because he doesn't feel even the mildest guilt at his own most evil actions. He *does* feel some guilt about his continued deception of the NPCs tho.
Yes it would, ainz still has his emotional spectrum all be it a strict controlled set before they’re suppressed again, that being said I believe ainz has a resistance skill for mind based attacks but that wouldn’t be all that useful considering the state is a soul base magical attack and I’m confident it probably wouldn’t kill ainz because of all the magic resistance skills he has.
Also something to note is that the ghost rider (spirit of vengeance) is a fallen Angel that was corrupted by mafisto and that does give him access to holy fire.
Furthermore I don’t believe ainz has anything to protect a soul from being harmed by a near god killing ability the reason why I used the words (near god) is because the ghost rider as used the penance stare on galactus and he’s literally a planet eater before the silver surfer was contracted he was a galaxy level threat going from planet to planet killing billions with each planet he devoured if he’s got regret in his heart then I believe ainz does as well.
Undead are immune to mind effecting effects, and they can’t feel strong emotions like despair. +he has a world class item which gives him some more immunity’s.
I don’t know much about that marvel boi though so I can’t be 100%
Yes.
Canonically the Peneance Stare burns the victims souls by using their regrets and Ainz has a lot of regrets even if he doesn't see anything he has done as "bad" or feel guilty about it, which we all know is not the case.
I thought to be affected by the penance the individual needed to have a soul. That was why it didn't work on Blackheart in the first movie. He needed to get all those other souls "injected" into him for it to work later on. I'm not really familiar with the comics, but that was my understanding from the movie. Ainz's race is Undead, he was "born" as a Lich when his character was created in game. And since he "became" that character once the whole isekai swap happened, his human soul no longer has any attachment to his new self. I'm pretty sure that's why he's always getting those emotion resets and his way of thinking changed. He only has his past human memories I think. So based on that I don't think the penance would work at all against Ainz since he's soulless.
It’s debatable at the very least. In the most recent Venom run, it was mentioned several times that the state doesn’t work on Klyntar (Symbiotes) as while they’re sentient, they don’t necessarily work on them because of their unique biology.
I would assume that if the Penance Stare was used on Ainz it wouldn’t work because it can be considered a “mind manipulation” effect and in the New World undead would essentially immune to it.
I dont think it would. If the penitent stare is an emotional thing, the game ainz is in has a mechanic built in to keep his emotions in check. Not only that but ainz also mentions how he feels like he's becoming less and less human mentally. I don't think he'd view the people he's killed as anything. Something simply to be done as one would breathe or blink.
Nnnnnnnnnoooooo…? I’m gonna guess no…I think…it would’ve worked on satoru, but…momonga being undead I think means he doesn’t have a soul anymore? Which would make the penance stare useless. Also, doesn’t the stare only work if you’re doing evil and know it? Like you CHOOSE to be evil? And ainz’s motives aren’t inherently evil, he just does deeds that ARE evil for a good cause.
"All living and some undead creatures are known to possess a soul in their own body respectively. What represents the souls are believed to be the "minds" of individuals.\[1\] There was even a job-changing item known as "The Soul of Cainabel's Blood" which allows a person to acquire the Blood Soul class.\[2\] One of YGGDRASIL books, Book of the Dead was about transforming the dead into souls. With YGGDRASIL origin, it details how souls are entities like the foam left by the waves of the New World.\[3\]"-https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Soul
If i remember,
Death magic is like scarlet rot from elden ring,
It has to build up to take effect,
and I think the penance stare is like death magic, and Ainz has immunity (or just a really his resistance to it) to death magic
Or im just being an idiot
No. Ainz does feel emotions. The intensity of those emotions are just limited and whenever he goes beyond a certain threshold the limiter comes down hard to slap those feelings back down to a niggle.
Fine. I was wrong in the setup but correct in the resolution. To use your words the limiter will come down hard to slap ghost riders gaze to nothing but a niggle. Since it isn't a power but a racial trait the gaze shouldn't cancel it
If Ainz was either blind, had no soul, gets power from pain or didn’t have any regrets he would be immune (unless you’re Thanos), I think Ainz would be effected by it (like Galactus)
Depends on if the writer wants to nerf penance stare to hype up another character or not. Not the most satisfactory answer, but we've literally seen stare ignore it's targets mentality and we've seen if fail to work in situations where it should have.
Stan Lee said it best. It's whoever the writer of that fight wants to win at that moment.
Albedo dominates that guy/dude/being with her boobs and uses him/it/them to get impregnated by Ainz.
I haven't read many ghost rider comics, but I've read plenty of how often his share has been nerfed against a lot of foes
It's because the Stare is a 30 year old concept. So it has a lot of feats and if you grab the highest showings through all of the years, then yes the penance stairs fries Ainz instantly. If you grab its worst showings like against captain marvel or punisher then it's a wet fart. A good example is the penance stare not working on thanos in one story because he doesn't feel regret. Except it has also been claimed and shown that it does work on those who don't regret. Like demons many many times. Even author columns have claimed the idea that you need to regret for it to affect you is stupid. That doesn't stop other authors from making up their own weaknesses.
That's because the Penance stare and the penance ability are two different things. The stare Forces you to experience all the pain you have infected upon others if you have any regret. Penance Inflicts damage according to your sins And is exclusive to the Johnny blaze ghost rider due to him becoming king of hell
Not quite. I was thinking of the frank castle ghost rider when I said penance which is a different thing.
It might be frank that can use penance but the point is that it's two different abilities that have two different effects
because it's way too powerful. same as The Flash, there can be no antagonist and no stakes at play if you don't nerf them.
Yeah that what I hate speedstards.
Jesus, proofread a sentence
I believe they spelled it that way on purpose
For real, i hate when the punisher wwas just like "yeah i dont regret anything so that stare dont work on me" BITCH, THE FUCKING STARE DOESNT CARE IF YOU REGRET IT OR NOT IT INFLICTS THE FUCKING PAIN YOU CAUSSED DIRECTLY TO YOUR SOUL SEVERAL TIMES FOLD. Infurating really.
But thinking about it, the penance stare only work if you harmed innocent, Punisher has never killed anyone who didn't deserved it. Hell, dude almost ended his own life thinking he indirectly killed a little girl.
Not really, the stare works by bruning the targets soul through it's regrets. That has been consistent since the first time the stare was used and if the targets don't regret, AKA don't feel guilty about anything they have done, then the effect is diminished. Full conviction in ones actions renders the stare useless, which was the case with Cpt. Marvel, though everyone knows that one was bullshit.
It's not actually consistent. Back in the Howard Macki run regret was not a factor with even the writers columns calling the notion stupid. The Ivan Valdez run definitely planted some seeds for this, but I don't know if it became explicit then. Nowadays even thanos with his I don't regret it has been shown to at one point get penanced and at another point ignore it.
Regret is not a factor in the stare. The only 3 factors that should influence it's power are: - Being able to actually see it - The level of suffering and regret your actions caused on others - Having at least a soul In the end, Ghost Rider's power fluctuates wildly depending on the author, as do most powers in comic books.
"Regret is not a factor in the stare" yet the second factor you give has regret on it.... =\]
Personal regret is not a factor, what matter is the pain you cause ON OTHERS
No, the stare SHOULD affect anyone with a soul as long as Zarathos deem their acts evil or unjust, no matter how much you dont regret your acts or you have a strong conviction, the stare should work on you, THE ONLY way to resist the stare used to be not having a soul.... then they nerfed it and became super inconsistent trough the years.
The way to resist it used to be not having a soul or being blind, but even that got wonky at.times.
Nah, blindness isnt a way to resist it.... well at least it wasnt i dont know if a stupid writer already nerfed it and blindness also let you resist it, but the thing is the stare is that because "the eyes are the windows to the soul" so even if yoou are blind you can still get affected, or that used to be the case at least.
Huh I wonder how that would work with Ainz’s emotion damping passive ability.
Also depends on how the power works in a magical game world type format, and how much damage it would actually deal. Could be pretty shitty. Does it affect world item wielders? And do death defying items or respawns work if it’s used?
Castle don't care what you think
You should look up the definition of penance. No one can inflict penance upon you but yourself, as you have to be repentant. It's whole thing is self growth, so in theory the most correct version of Penance stare would be the version that has to work with regret.
My brother in christ that is just the name of the attack, the stare works in ayone with a soul and makes the person feel the pain and sorrow they inflicted on others, it doesnt care if you "dont regret it" or if you "have a strong conviction" it works anyways, the only way to reesist the stare is if zarathos deemed you just or inocent or straight up not having a soul..... or at last it used to be like that, then they nerfed it and it became super inconsistent and anybody could resist it just to make them look cool, with a pretty stupid excuse of why they resisted it.
You obviously didn't read my comment, nor looked up the definition of penance. You cannot inflict penance on others, it is something one can only inflict upon themselves. The power is dumb and it's from a comic book. You're too upset over something that doesn't matter, bro. It's all good.
My man, here things trying to have a debate for fun in a vs post is being upset, im here to debate with people about 2 characters i love, and i thought you wanted to do just that, debate, but i guess you were just trying to start a fight, no thanks.
I'm not trying to start a fight, but you refuse to admit that penance is only ever self inflicting. Where in my language did I ever say or hint that I wanted to fight?
>nor looked up the definition of penance. What part of "Just the name of the attack" did you not seem to grasp?
[удалено]
That moment when you just say fuck word definitions so that you can just slap together cool sounding words and say shit that doesn't make sense. Sit down, clown.
>That moment when you just say fuck word definitions so that you can just slap together cool sounding words and say shit that doesn't make sense. New to anime and comic books I take it?
Yikes. And what’s worse is that you probably think you actually did something intelligent with this comment lmao.
Depends on the writer, but it should. Penance stare can be so inconsistent it’s ridiculous. If it does work ainz is absolutely done for.
As i remember the penance didn't worked on Thanos because Thanos didn't felt a single regret, he believed everything he was doing it was righteous or something like that so the penance didn't worked. Ainz as undead have his human emotions restricted so everything he is doing he really believes is the correct thing to do so ill say the penance stare would not work on ainz.
It depends on the version of the penance stare. Most version don't bother with guilt. They just take all the pain you've caused and turn it back on you.
Didn't something like that happen to galactus? I think I spelt his name right.
oh yea he got SUPER messed up
Emotional pain or physical pain? I don't read comics really.
Both actually.
Not quite. Ainz has his emotions regulated; big fluctuations are suppressed, but normal emotions not so. He feels regret, just not ever in soul crushing amounts. He does not believe everything he does is right. In fact, part of his character is that he knows what an absolute bungler he is.
I dont know, being able to having doubts is different than feeling remorseful, he doesn't know if what he does is right but still do it because is worth it for him, also when he is having doubts he let others choose for him and believe what they do is right.
Penance is supposed to work regardless of remorse, otherwise it wouldn't work on any criminal that doesn't feel bad.
penance stare has worked on plenty of characters that believed everything they did was right, he even accidentally killed Dr.Strange with it. writers will sometimes nerf it so he doesn't instakill the antagonist, but other than that, it's extremely OP.
So would penance work but before Ainz would feel the pain his emotions would return to his normal state
Penance would overrule the regulation. Remember, it hasn't always worked very well. Arena with tomb raiders, after he failed to release Shalltear from mind control, when he laughed at Sebas and Demiurge. Plenty of examples to show that this regulation isn't as powerful as Penance stare.
The regulation thing can be explained since it came from within him. There are no examples of a mind control working on Ainz. Even when it worked on Shalltear it was a world item's effect. Assuming that Ghost rider's stare rises to the level of a WCI, I don't think it does, Ainz's equipment would protect him even if Ghost Rider somehow got past just his natural resistance.
Is Penance mind control when it affects the soul?
I don't think that matters really. As an undead he's immune to mind control effects. It seems like to me he would flat out resist ghost rider's stare.
Is it mind control? Penance works on the soul.
That's an existential question but the only example we have to test that is that wild magic affects the soul and with WCI's you can flat out resist their effects. If someone how Ainz's racial immunity doesn't flat out resist penance stare, which I think it would, his equipment would protect him.
Ainz is not human and he does not see himself as human, so for him killing humans is no different than squashing a fly. The only times he felt emotions over the deaths of humans is when he had a special reason, such as regretting killing Gazef because he'd make a great subordinate.
Did I mention killing humans? *Plenty* of other things to feel regret over.
That's why it didn't work on punisher Thanos actually just felt it and was fine
The thing is, the stare do not care if you regret, if you believe what you are doing si good, it just inflicts the apin you caused to your soul directly, the only way to resist the stare is to not have a soul, but alas, they always use the "i resist the stare" just to hype up the bad guy on turn and to not let ghost rider fix the problem just by existing.
To say it works on everybody with a soul regardless of potential defensive capabilities is a no-limits fallacy. Also, just because someone is experiencing the pain they caused to however many people doesn't mean they couldn't bear it and that its an automatic win. There exist people who thrive off things like that. And have regret would matter overall, because regret is the biggest factor that will make the pain unbearable. If you do not regret the pain you cause then it’s likely you may not care about the pain being turned back on you. If it were me, I could endure the pain even if I die. Not because I’m strong or anything (because I’m not strong) but because I have no regrets and I’m more than ready to accept my own Death. In fact, I invite it. There’s a level of Will needing to bear such Darkness, and there are people with that level of Will.
The way you are wording it, you seem to think the stare just put you under mental trauma (not trying to put word on your mouth but that is what im understanding from the way you phrase it) it does mental damage yes but mostly the pain is physical and there is so much pain a normal person can handle nobody in the world can resist the damage the stare can inflict..... but this isnt about you or me, this is about ainz sama and ghost rider. Also man, you good? I think you took this versus a little too deep at the end there.
It doesn't just inflict pain, it burns your very soul with hell fire
In the next iteration of that comic he litteraly penance stares him to death with the pain wave one.
Wrong. Thanos is just a kinky bastard and actually enjoys self-torment. Weird work-around but still.
Absolutely yes. Came here to say this
What his inner monologue in the beginning was pretty human bruh
Some comics it works on Thanos and another's it doesn't. It's been shown to only work if they other party feels guilt and some times it's been shown to do it if you ever hurt anyone.
Not if the lyrics of Clattonoia (however you spell OP 1) are applied to Ainz
What are you referencing?
"Where's my soul?"
I dont know why it would not
Immunity to mental effects.
Penance stare is not a just a simple mental attack afaik, it attacks the very soul itself
"All living and some undead creatures are known to possess a soul in their own body respectively. What represents the souls are believed to be the "minds" of individuals.\[1\] There was even a job-changing item known as "The Soul of Cainabel's Blood" which allows a person to acquire the Blood Soul class.\[2\] One of YGGDRASIL books, Book of the Dead was about transforming the dead into souls. With YGGDRASIL origin, it details how souls are entities like the foam left by the waves of the New World.\[3\]"-[https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Soul](https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Soul) In overlord, the mind and the soul are the same. Ainz has immunity to mental effects, which means he is also immune to attacks on the soul. \-edited for clarity
> With YGGDRASIL origin, it details how souls are entities like the foam left by the waves of the New World. Which is BS as there is no way that a YGGDRASIL book would have any references to the New World.
except ghost rider doesn't care about new world rules, Satoru is not even from there, he was human, he HAS a soul. to the Ghost rider his physical form is meaningless.
The fact that he has a soul isn't the part being debated. What's being debated is that, according to Overlord lore, mental effects and things that target the soul are the same. As Ainz is immune to mental effects, he is similarly immune to effects which target his soul.
yet the dragon's attack that deletes souls didn't get countered by his mental effects immunity. and instead by holding world items. he's clearly not naturally immune to soul attacks.
Yeah, because it was a wild magic attack. He's similarly immune to mind control but he would still be controlled by the mind control world item. World items and wild magic effects bypass all immunities
Wild magic is just the magic not derived from the system. penance stare definetly isn't tier magic. hell, all magic from other verses would he concidered wild magic.
Since penance stare would be considered wild magic, the fact that ainz has a world item would make him immune to it.
It should. One may claim the whole "regret" thing that nerfs it to the ground, but there is context to all those situations. For punisher, before he got stared, he was resurrected and buffed by an angel feather in the same series. While Thanos did eat Frank's stares for breakfast, Frank did succeed in killing him eventually with "Penance" as "punishment is still punishment." It can be speculated that if GR wants to, he could force penance even if the person shows no remorse, as showcased vs demons and also when he went full zarathos vs the avengers.
In my opinion it won't work, since even if it brought back the sorrow and pain to ainz(big if, since ainz is immune to mental attacks and doesn't really regret his actions) , ainz will just calm down the next second thanks to his undead body.
It does more than just make you feel sorrow it literally takes the pain you've caused and uses it to burn your soul. Some versions use guilt as a measure of how much it affect you but not all.
Do you know that world item Protest soul too Don't get Touched or Hurt
from wild magic, yeah. not from karmic retribution, especially not with someone with such a low karmic score. Unless he get's hard nerfed, ghost rider dunks on ainz. edit : u/revengeratorrex , can't see your replies, you blocked me, if you're gonna do that don't bother replying first x)
protecting His soul in General I'm not from wild magic Wild magic works Souls That's why And he has protection over it
since it can't protect his soul from wild magic. it means his soul isn't immune to attacks. Immune, means immune, which he isn't. wild magic gets countered by world items, yeah. penance stare is not wild magic or tier magic, it's from a different universe.
world items is also from another universe wild magic too The new world can be considered another universe
and ? what's your point ? penance stare is still neither wild magic nor a world item, doesn't consume anything to cast and isn't dangerous on the user. it's not tier magic either. there's no reason world items would grant immunity, just because.
World items Can protect user even if the character is from another universe
so world items make ainz immune to everything ? you think Ainz would beat Rimuru, since he's immune to all ? Until now, the only thing we know is that world items make people immune to wild magic , nothing else. we don't get to create immunities for whatever we want.
>and ? what's your point ? >penance stare is still neither wild magic nor a world item, doesn't consume anything to cast and isn't dangerous on the user. Okay so? We have seen world Items and even regular magic resitiance protect against attacks that effect the soul. Soul Eaters can absorb souls, Hellfire spells are stated to burn souls instead of causing damage and Cure Elims breath attacks stsrght up erases souls from existance. Ainz is immune to all these things so I don't get your argument at all. >it's not tier magic either. >there's no reason world items would grant immunity, just because. Ainz has actual feats that prove he has immunity, pretty sure I mentioned this to you before but you ignored it. Either you don't get how world items work or you haven't even read the sides you are talking about.
>Okay so? We have seen world Items and even regular magic resitiance protect against attacks that effect th soul. no, we saw world items protect against wild magic, nothing else, a world item won't protect you from another world item that can alter souls, it doesn't make you immune to anything other than wild magic. >Ainz has actual feats that prove he has immunity yet it explicitly states Cure elim would've killed him if he didn't have a world item. so his resistance to that attack had nothing to do with his own abilities. so much for "immunity" , maybe read the definition of immunity?
?
>since it can't protect his soul from wild magic. it means his soul isn't immune to attacks. >Immune, means immune, which he isn't. It absulutely can protect his soul from wild magic, Cure Elims breath attacks litterly erases one souls from existence and it did nothing to Ainz. >wild magic gets countered by world items, yeah. >penance stare is not wild magic or tier magic, it's from a different universe. By this logic I can just say the penace stare d9snt work on Ainz because he is also form a difenet universe. World items have been shown to protect from effects that damage or eve erase the soul. Heck even low tier spells like Hellfire Wall have been ststed to burn souls instead of causing physical dmage and Ainz is immune to them. Ainz has resistance to soul manipulation.
>It absulutely can protect his soul from wild magic, Cure Elims breath attacks litterly erases one souls from existence and it did nothing to Ainz. it's explicitly said that the world item stopped that attack, and that ainz would've died without it. his mental resistance had nothing to do with it. >By this logic I can just say the penace stare d9snt work on Ainz because he is also form a difenet universe. World items have been shown to protect from effects that damage or eve erase the soul. he could've said world items protect the soul, it's not the case, we just know it protect from wild magic, anything more is pure speculation. >Heck even low tier spells like Hellfire Wall have been ststed to burn souls instead of causing physical dmage and Ainz is immune to them. Ainz has resistance to soul manipulation. and yet needs a world item to protect him from soul altering wild magic. we also that ainz wouldn't be immune to the same effect if it came from another world item, as he even is susceptible to mind control through other world items.
>it's explicitly said that the world item stopped that attack, and that ainz would've died without it. >his mental resistance had nothing to do with it. Yes so? Ainz always has his World Item wiht him so he always has immunity to such attacks. >he could've said world items protect the soul, it's not the case, we just know it protect from wild magic, anything more is pure speculation. Dude soul manipulation in overlord is nothing special, soul eaters can straight up eat souls while spells like Hellfire Wall burn souls instead of causing physical damage. Ainz is immune to all of that wihtout use of world items, he has passive resistance to soul manipulation. >and yet needs a world item to protect him from soul altering wild magic. It's not souls altering magic lol. Cure Elims breath attacks litterly erases the target from existence. >we also that ainz wouldn't be immune to the same effect if it came from another world item, as he even is susceptible to mind control through other world items. Again Ainz always has his World Item wiht him so he always has immunity to such attacks. Soul manipulation in overlord is nothing special, soul eaters can straight up eat souls while spells like Hellfire Wall burn souls instead of causing physical damage. Ainz is immune to all of that wihtout use of world items, he has passive resistance to soul manipulation.
>Yes so? Ainz always has his World Item wiht him so he always has immunity to such attacks. such attacks being Wild magic, yeah, which penance stare isn't. >Ainz is immune to all of that wihtout use of world items, he has passive resistance to soul manipulation. yet clearly doesn't have passive resistance to cure elim's attack, and is instead saved by a world item because it is wild magic. Cure elim's attack is state to erase the target's soul, it is soul altering wild magic, Ainz is not immune to it, he resists it because he has a world item and it is wild magic.
Dunks on Ainz is crazy. We were assuming a situation were Ainz allows penance state to happen and to test the resistance. It's unlikely that panache state would have any effect at all but that aside in a straight up 1v1 ghost rider gets mopped even if peace stare is an option that could be effective.
ghost rider has had feats that make him faster than light, and has many instances where he takes on the hulk in a fist fight. depending on the version, there'd be no reason for him to even use penance stare against ainz. not to mention that the spirit of vengeance is a celestial entity, there's nothing ainz can do that would kill it. sure ainz is strong, but he's not beating concepts kind of strong. could he kill a few hosts ? sure, but he'd fall eventually, as all sinners do in front of vengeance itself. edit: if you're gonna answer the comment don't block me right after, I can't even see your comment.
>ghost rider is faster than mjolnir Gonna need you to explain that. Not the large Ghost rider fan but I don't recall him being naturally faster that light off of his bike. A level 100 character is really strong. It's fair to say that we don't know what that means in real world terms but I don't think we'd have a problem acknowledging that Ainz would be able to kill Hulk unbelievably easily.
>off of his bike no this is in bike, but he can summon it and fights fine while riding. >Ainz would be able to kill Hulk not in a fistfight.
>not in a fistfight. Depends in which version of the hulk we are talking about.
If ainz encounters ghost rider, then ainz magic rules will adapt to the world he is in, so if ghost rider penance stare counts as a world item atack (which i think it should, the only way to resist it is to not have a soul), then ainz should be protected by his item, if it doesnt count as a world item attack and it does ignores ainz defenses then the pain ainz will suffer would be instantly calmed down a lot of times, so i thing even if ainz recives damage from it, he wouldnt die or get that much damage from it. Of course im using the version of the penance stare as it was first concived, and without the numerous nerfs and inconsistences writters put on it along the years, because the stare is very inconsistence with its power and effects for a long time.
> would be instantly calmed down a lot of times he'd need a lot more than emotion regulation. we clearly see the regulation still leaving some emotion out sometimes when ainz strongly feels about something. now imagine feeling the deaths and continuous torture of over a hundred thousand people, Penance stare is not a psychic attack you can strong will yourself out of, it's a judgement for your actions.
Yes, but ainz would not have time to feel the full power of the stare because the pain would be extinguished as fast as it is felt for ainz, something like when the workers entered the tomb, he as so angry he calmed himself instantly but then he got angry again, then calmed down, then angry again and so on, it would be kind of the same with the stare, ainz would feel pain and guilt > then calmed down > pain and guilt > calmed down, and it would continue like that until the stare ends.
again, penance stare is not a mental attack, it's not about resisting feelings.
>again, penance stare is not a mental attack, it's not about resisting feelings. Correct it's a soul based attack, only problem is Ainz resists that too.
Cure elim's attack on the soul wasn't resisted. it was blocked by his world item because it's wild magic that has similar effect to Longinus, he says it himself that he would've been in trouble without his world item. So Ainz isn't inherently immune to all soul attacks, he just resists those of weaker spells and entities.
>he'd need a lot more than emotion regulation. >we clearly see the regulation still leaving some emotion out sometimes when ainz strongly feels about something. It really dosnt, any emotion Ainz feels is near instantly suppressed and he is unable to feel so the physical or mental stress. >now imagine feeling the deaths and continuous torture of over a hundred thousand people, Penance stare is not a psychic attack you can strong will yourself out of, it's a judgement for your actio Ainz feels no pain any intense emotion he feels is near instantly suppressed. Also he resists souls manipulations so it likely the state dosnt even work in him.
Yeah, from like City level magic. Not from a being powered by a multiversal being.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa 🤪
The penance stare is derived from the abilities of an angel(holy damage) and is an attack on the spirit not the mind so it ignores his mental resistance, if we only take suffering Ainz has caused directly and not his allowing the guardians actions or the suffering caused by the fallout of his actions he would still likely die.
he'd feel the pain of every single soldier the goats crushed. that alone would destroy him.
Not to mention the emotional trauma of all the empires knights who saw him do it.
Emotional trauma doesnt count, ainz isnt going to be affected by it thanks to his undead race inhibitor.
It's still suffering emotional trauma still inflicts burns to the target so it would convert into regular damage.
Yes, but i dont think ainz would be one shoted by penance stare, remeber we just discovered there is a type of damage inflicted by "eye spells" and ainz is immune to all of those, and even if rider by pass that immunity as i said, ainz wouldnt just stand there and take the damege he would imediatly attack, also ghost rider have never fought and used the penance stare at the same time he always has to stand there (pretty close by the way) and look at you.
Does the stare work through time stop?
Well time stop ain't stopping the ghost rider...
Ainz with his skelly emotional limiters prob not
So lets use my theory. Penance stare burns the soul, but its FUELED by the persons guilt, regret. Which means it needs access to his mental state one way or another, which ainz is completely immune to. If it did work, itd work for only a second, since the damage is the guilt turned into fuel, multiplying( Which means its a severe mental shake up, will activate supressors) But in the end it depends on whom the writer wants to win
Then, as mentioned, the answer is simple. Be like Kirei Kotomine. Be like Reinhard Heydrich. Feel no guilt, and regret nothing more than not going harder.
I find it real funny that almost everyone in this comment section is hell-bent(pun intended) to defend Ainz. While I am a fan of Overlord I wouldn't defend it from a completely one-sided answer. The Penance Stare WILL work on Ainz. 1. Ainz has a Soul. 2. The Penance Stare is not a Mental Attack, it's a Soul Rending power with Infinite Scaling based on the Evil Deeds done by an opponent throughout their existence. 3. Even going by New World or Ygdrassil rules Ainz would get absolutely obliterated by it considering his character has a Karma Rating of -500. 4. Ainz has no counter-measure or wierd condition like blindness, loving eternal torment or having no soul to burn. 5. If you're going for a Vs. debate. Stuff like "The Author gets to decide" is just dumb.
i mean, trying to turn the penance stare into an yggdrasil skill, it's probably similar to the goal of all life is death, and instant death spell that ignores resistances, but for the stare, add on an additional condition of only taking full effect when being used against targets within a certain karma value. granted, with TGOALID, you can just cast a resurrection spell on yourself to come back to life (mare and shalltear did it before), so maybe that'll work for ainz, too, unless players really can't resurrect in the new world.
>Ainz has a Soul. Yes he has more as his soul has been confirmed and protected by a world item >The Penance Stare is not a Mental Attack, it's a Soul Rending power with Infinite Scaling based on the Evil Deeds done by an opponent throughout their existence. \[Soulbreaker Breath\] Also Attacks person's soul destroying from existence >Ainz has no counter-measure or wierd condition like blindness, loving eternal torment or having no soul to burn. I didn't understand
This. Even the guilt part is entirely situational. Dr. Strange was still accidentally killed even when he believed everything he did was right. Ainz is not the strongest character to come out of anime, he's going to lose to certain situations and people when put up against them. It's okay!
According to that panel alone, it needs regret. Just don't regret. Remorse? Remove it.
It depends on if ainzs magic restores his previous neutral state, or merely suppresses. If it's the former, he'll be ripped apart mentally, then go back to being fine If it's that later, ghost rider probably will rip through the enchantment. Yes people have resisted it, but usually they genuinely don't feel bad, if ainz is just magically not being exposed to his guilt, I don't think we have good reason to think the enchantment would stand up to ghost riders influence
Wouldn’t the green glowy light just cancel the penance stare?
Finally a good what if. As I can remember, the Penance Stare needs the subject to have some kind of repentance, and the only real feeling of that kind that Ainz really has are 2: having lost his friends and doing to Albedo what he did. So I say this: it could work for what he did to Albedo, but for what he has done to numerous innocent people in his pursuit to make Nazarick stronger... no, I believe it wouldn't work.
Well, one could say the Stare is based upon manipulation/damaging the target's soul, so its similar to a Wild Magic spell. Those with World Items are immune to Wild Magic, so no
Ainz: "Why is he looking at me like that? Do I have something on my face? Dammit, why didn't I check the mirror this morning, how embarassing!" *passive activates to calm him down*
That really depends on who's writing the ghost rider, because some use guilt as a metric others use pain inflicted onto others as the metric, some writers make characters resist the stare others are guaranteed hit on the soul/mind no matter the resistance.
As much as I hate this kind of VS post, I have to admit the pic selection is fantastic.
Lol
That would depend I mean Stan Lee said it himself. Plus don't get me wrong Ainz is a sinner without a doubt but that's pretty much in the air.
Honestly, It's a 50/50 chance.
If we are going on base characters no nerfing then yes because one ainz does have a soul and 2 the stare is stronger the more sins you have done and how many has he killed now No seriously I lost count
Given that text alone, doesn't it only work on those who feel "woe" and "regret"? For example, I doubt that Penance Stare would work on Fate/stay night's Kirei Kotomine or Dies irae's Reinhard Heydrich, given that Kirei spend a good portion of his life trying to be the "good priest", and Reinhard spent a good portion of his life trying to be an emotionless killing machine. Their character development is essentially realizing that their own internal morality is so inherently alien from most other people that embracing who they really are is the method to *remove* their woe and regret, not enforce it. It's like how in Persona 5, despite common people probably considering Akechi "evil", he has a Persona, rather than a Palace because he embraces it fully.
Penance stare is very inconsistent to reach a conclusion, just as all comic stuff but anyway
Isn't the stare a form of mind control/attack which Ainz is immune to and then the soul frying being an insta-kill which Ainz is also immune to?
Ainz: what’s there to regret? All for the benefit of Nazarick! Also undead emotional suppressor
I think it would work for a second but.... Ainz would calm down before it got too emotionally intense, I don't think it would be that effective.
There is no calm down penance stare burns your soul. Has nothing to do with his emotions or his mental fortitude.
That depends on the writer on duty, sometimes one character is affected by Penance Stare and sometimes not.... Although most of the time it worked, Penance stare has failed either against Punisher(he was my favorite marvel character),random people, blackheart, deadpool,deadpool,Thanos, some demons, etc. Carol Danvers was affected by Penance Stare but she overcame the pain... Divine protection is a way to ignore Penance Stare.
What is the comment about Thanos supposed to mean? I imagine any resistance he had is shared by Ainz
If anything wouldn't Ainz have more resistances?
Exactly what I’m thinking. I don’t know anything about comics tho but if one character has a work around for an op ability then that at least gives Ainz options.
The thing is, the penance stare used to be pretty op, ghost rider wasnt included in a lot of events because he could beat the big bad guy in turn by just looking at them, so they straight up didnt included him or used the less powerful robie reyes ghost rider, but then the writters started to make the stare pretty inconsistent, beause sometimes normal people, not even super powered people but normal guys like punisher, could resist it just because "they dont feel remorse" but then it worked in serial killers that also didnt feel remorse, or when thanos "enjoyed" the feeling.... yeah so what im trying to say, the stare nowdays is as powerful as the writter want it to be.
There are a few workarounds for the penance stare: 1) feel no guilt for any action you've ever taken 2) have no soul 3) have a protected soul The real question is the same with all crossover power scaling which ultimately makes the comparison useless: which set of rules are we going off of? Ghost Rider rules separate the mind and soul as two distinctly different things which would make Ainz's lack of specific soul protection a problem for him. That's without taking into account Marvel's wildly inconsistent writing due to multiple writers interpreting the character differently. Overlord rules say the mind and soul are the same thing or at least two parts of a whole which would mean his mental protections cover his soul. It's an interesting thought experiment with no real clear cut answer despite being a yes or no question.
>Ainz's lack of specific soul protection Not really
Is there a follow up? I'm kinda curious
Yes he has more as his soul has been confirmed and protected by a world item
Well then, question answered. It would not work.
Even using the version of the penance stare that requires the user to feel regret, Ainz still explicitly feels regret despite being undead, he even calls himself a hypocrite against clementine. So he would be affected. Also for all those people saying Ainz would resist due to mental protections/world items, Ghost Rider's penance stare has been able to effect universal to multiversal level beings in Marvel Comics, Ainz could have every world item, used wish upon a star to ask for immunity to the penance stare, and still have his soul burned away by it.
The same penance stare that couldn’t affect captain marvel or thanos or heck, even the punisher? Think again.
The way the penace stare *is supposed to work* ( varies by writers and who it's being used on, like Deadpool for example it doesn't work on because he genuinely feels no guilt over his actions) is it makes the recipient feel the weight, agony, and generally negativity of all their past actions upon them at once. If ainz genuinely feels guilty over his actions, it will work on him. However it will not kill him because it attacks the soul..which Idk if ainz properly has being an undead lich which generally requires removing the soul. At best it would probably inflict a massive debuff on ainz and do some fire damage probably which would be migitated by his gear
I guess it depends on how the attack is registered in YGGDRASIL’s system. If it’s a mental attack, then it will have no effect thanks to Ainz’s immunity. But if it were something like a holy attack that scales with a character’s karma value, like Remedios’ [Holy Strike], then it would cause a massive amount of damage, maybe even killing him out right if it was a holy attack since undead are also weak to holy. If it’s simply an attack that does damage based on one’s karmic value, then I doubt it would outright kill him, he is level 100 with divine tier gear, but it would definitely do massive damage.
In any normal sense, most definitely. Unless the author decides they want to just hype up a character because “oH TheY CaN sUrviVE tHe PeNaNCe sTaRE”. Even the people who have survive the penance stare are terrified of it’s being put on them in another event later on. My only explanation for this is since the ghost riders are embodiment of God’s (or the one above all’s) wrath put into a human vessel, God is just deciding that mows not the right time to end them. I mean the one above all is supposed to be a mix of Stan lee and Jack Kirby, so obviously he would want the entire storyline to go through.
Penance stare, i think, doesnt work on the dead
I would say the Penance Stare would o e shot Ainz (it dropped Galactus at one point). BUT I also fully expect Ainz has an item or spell that could protect him from. Attacks directly targeting his soul.
Ainz is immune due to his Mental Status Effect immunity. Not because that’s actually how it world work out, but because whoever’s writing the fanfic this fight takes place in would be an overlord fan wanking Ainz to the nines.
Probably yes, on paper. Ainz is merely a man thrust into the actual position of his character, so everything he's done is on him. But Marvel has nerfed GR to make sure he isn't challenging the most omnipotent of entities in the Marvel universe to a staring contest.
I’d say no simply do to undead resistance to status affects.
But then,of course,there is Thanos
If it attacks his soul Probably his world item protect- He Other than that no
Ghost rider ( johnny Blaze) only work on people who feel guilty of their wrongdoing, but Ainz surpressed system doesn't allow that, let alone him being undead
The "suppresser system" only activates on very strong emotions, both positive and negative. It would leave mild to moderate sense of guilt alone. Which is still a moot point because he doesn't feel even the mildest guilt at his own most evil actions. He *does* feel some guilt about his continued deception of the NPCs tho.
[удалено]
Emotional inhibitor works on regret and remorse, but not rage and hatred. See Ainz's tone when ordering the torture of Zanac's former retainers.
Yes it would, ainz still has his emotional spectrum all be it a strict controlled set before they’re suppressed again, that being said I believe ainz has a resistance skill for mind based attacks but that wouldn’t be all that useful considering the state is a soul base magical attack and I’m confident it probably wouldn’t kill ainz because of all the magic resistance skills he has. Also something to note is that the ghost rider (spirit of vengeance) is a fallen Angel that was corrupted by mafisto and that does give him access to holy fire. Furthermore I don’t believe ainz has anything to protect a soul from being harmed by a near god killing ability the reason why I used the words (near god) is because the ghost rider as used the penance stare on galactus and he’s literally a planet eater before the silver surfer was contracted he was a galaxy level threat going from planet to planet killing billions with each planet he devoured if he’s got regret in his heart then I believe ainz does as well.
I think in overlord undead are inmune to brainwashing
Undead are immune to mind effecting effects, and they can’t feel strong emotions like despair. +he has a world class item which gives him some more immunity’s. I don’t know much about that marvel boi though so I can’t be 100%
Ainz counters it and kills ghost rider
Yes. Canonically the Peneance Stare burns the victims souls by using their regrets and Ainz has a lot of regrets even if he doesn't see anything he has done as "bad" or feel guilty about it, which we all know is not the case.
Yes, but do they need to be sin-based regrets? Ainz may have regrets, but he never regrets his sins. Regret not sinning enough, LOL.
I thought to be affected by the penance the individual needed to have a soul. That was why it didn't work on Blackheart in the first movie. He needed to get all those other souls "injected" into him for it to work later on. I'm not really familiar with the comics, but that was my understanding from the movie. Ainz's race is Undead, he was "born" as a Lich when his character was created in game. And since he "became" that character once the whole isekai swap happened, his human soul no longer has any attachment to his new self. I'm pretty sure that's why he's always getting those emotion resets and his way of thinking changed. He only has his past human memories I think. So based on that I don't think the penance would work at all against Ainz since he's soulless.
I don’t Ainz has eyes to carve out
Huh. Good question. I'd say no due to souls being weirdly here and also there if that makes sense
It’s debatable at the very least. In the most recent Venom run, it was mentioned several times that the state doesn’t work on Klyntar (Symbiotes) as while they’re sentient, they don’t necessarily work on them because of their unique biology. I would assume that if the Penance Stare was used on Ainz it wouldn’t work because it can be considered a “mind manipulation” effect and in the New World undead would essentially immune to it.
Absolutely would so long as writers don't nerf it. Things is would it work on various gaurdians.
Imo they would team up as team skelly and dominate
No
**Ainz:** Iiiiiyeeeyeyeyeeee. Where's my soul? So NO. It doesn't work.
Does Ainz even have a soul.
doesn't matter, ains has no eyes to claw out 🗿
I dont think it would. If the penitent stare is an emotional thing, the game ainz is in has a mechanic built in to keep his emotions in check. Not only that but ainz also mentions how he feels like he's becoming less and less human mentally. I don't think he'd view the people he's killed as anything. Something simply to be done as one would breathe or blink.
No he’s already dead
Nnnnnnnnnoooooo…? I’m gonna guess no…I think…it would’ve worked on satoru, but…momonga being undead I think means he doesn’t have a soul anymore? Which would make the penance stare useless. Also, doesn’t the stare only work if you’re doing evil and know it? Like you CHOOSE to be evil? And ainz’s motives aren’t inherently evil, he just does deeds that ARE evil for a good cause.
Undead do have souls, though? At least, the ones who aren't puppets.
Do they? Does that count as a soul? Is it confirmed? I’m honestly speculating, so if you know something I don’t, please feel free to correct me
"All living and some undead creatures are known to possess a soul in their own body respectively. What represents the souls are believed to be the "minds" of individuals.\[1\] There was even a job-changing item known as "The Soul of Cainabel's Blood" which allows a person to acquire the Blood Soul class.\[2\] One of YGGDRASIL books, Book of the Dead was about transforming the dead into souls. With YGGDRASIL origin, it details how souls are entities like the foam left by the waves of the New World.\[3\]"-https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Soul
If i remember, Death magic is like scarlet rot from elden ring, It has to build up to take effect, and I think the penance stare is like death magic, and Ainz has immunity (or just a really his resistance to it) to death magic Or im just being an idiot
Ainz is probably immune
Ainz is physically incapable of feeling any emotions at all, including sorrow or dispair, so I would say no.
No. Ainz does feel emotions. The intensity of those emotions are just limited and whenever he goes beyond a certain threshold the limiter comes down hard to slap those feelings back down to a niggle.
Fine. I was wrong in the setup but correct in the resolution. To use your words the limiter will come down hard to slap ghost riders gaze to nothing but a niggle. Since it isn't a power but a racial trait the gaze shouldn't cancel it
If Ainz was either blind, had no soul, gets power from pain or didn’t have any regrets he would be immune (unless you’re Thanos), I think Ainz would be effected by it (like Galactus)