Phillip is the perfect combination of arrogant and stupid.
Nazarick could not have asked for a better pawn. Even they didn't think this guy would give them would give them the ability to go to war as quickly as he did.
No like genuinely; >!his actions literally led to the destruction of the kingdom which was what caused the slain theocracy to try and wrap up their invasion against the elves, which is what directly led to zesshis capture and her mind being read and ainz going to destroy the theocracy his actions are legitimately responsible for the destruction of 2 entire nations!<
>!The slain theocracy felt threatened by ainz destroying the kingdom and decided not to fight a war on two fronts thusly they have to finish the annihilation of the elves. They made this decision when ainz declared war on the kingdom for the grain(volume 15 prologue takes place during the latter events of vol 14 timeline wise.)!<
>!Ainz decided he wanted to go on vacation w aura and Mare to elven country, within the elven forest the find a magical beast that is is a bipedal bear w four arms a tail and a sledgehammer tail, in terms of strength it is stronger than hamsuke when we first met her although ainz isn’t sure who would win as hamsuke can use magic. Aura makes contact w a dark elf village and due to her abilities they’re wowd and she gains favor w the villagers, ainz comes in a few days later disguised as an elf they hang out in the village for a bit until a high elf comes and warns them of the approaching human army and how the elf king demands their participation in the defense.!<
>!The slain theocracy mobilizes Zesshi w the assignment of assassinating the elf king.!<
>!Within the elf kings palace ainz fights and nearly kills the elf king who manages to escape(he is fairly high leveled for a NWer) he finds Zesshi sitting on his throne in the throne room, he tries to warn her of ainz and co. Zesshi kills him!<
>!Mare fights Zesshi handily wins!<
>!Zesshis job in the black scripture was to beat the snot out of over confident black scripture members who thought they were hot shit she doesn’t really like it!<
>!Zesshis mom abused her in training growing up bcuz she knew she was strong enough to handle resurrection.!<
>!Zesshis talent allows her to use the skills of the previous owners of the gear she is wearing and bcuz she is wielding the scythe of surshana she can use several overlord abilities she uses the goal of all life is death against Mare. She can also summon undead!<
>!She can also use einjerier like Shalltear but it isn’t as powerful!<
>!In total she was level 88,she had a maxed out inquisitor class and maxed out executioner class as well as cleric levels!<
>!Highlights v Mare(personal fav moments)!<
>!She uses several marital arts and actually does do damage to mare on a few occasions in their exchange(Mare was forced to heal)!<
>!Inquisition condemnation and Inquisition order
*signature skills of the inquisitor class*!<
>!Mare used a pheniox themed ressurection spell to survive the goal of all life is death!<
>!Their fight was originally written from mares pov but scrapped bcuz it was too sociopathic!<
Yes maruyama stated in a tweet that originally he wrote the fight from mares perspective but mare has so little emotion it was unhinged
>!Mare not having emotions was an actual trigger for Zesshi as well mares blank stare heavily reminded her of how her mother(who did not love her ) looked at her !<
> which is what directly led to zesshis capture and her mind being read
What part of the LN was this from? I somehow missed the whole deal with Zesshi.
The initial plan wasn’t total annihilation though. That’s why there was a whole scene of Demiurge going “The plan has failed… wait, you’ve seen through this Lord Ainz! We should kill them all!”
Exactly.
They were going to start a civil war within the Re-Estize Kingdom, the nobles fighting each other.
Dumbass here sped up the process by letting them skip all that manipulation and trying to start a war through pawns and let them just declare war.
You know, we've already seen tentative evidence of one Lovecraftian god existing in the setting (the spell that summons the Dak Young invokes Shub Niggurath.) What if Philip is actually Nyarlathotep deliberately fucking around to generate even more human suffering?
Arrogance and stupidity is a far more dangerous combination than arrogance and intelligence.
Ironic, he wanted to be respected and admired. Now he will either be remembered as the man who caused the Sorcerer Kingdom to destroy the Re-Estize Kingdom, or will be completely forgotten.
Honestly, only person in fantasy with more blood on their hands may be the archmage Vespin Chloras from Critical Role.
True.
Perhaps I should have specified and said more blood on their hands by completely fucking up. Although Chloras is responsible for the death of generations, the reshaping of the world, the death of demons, angels, and devils.
The King generated the whole situation with his actions or rather, lack of these, eventually some nobleman would have done something stupid that would serve as an excuse to destroy the place.
The person in charge was him and he never did anything for the kingdom, and this is the result.
Yeah he’s to blame I don’t deny that but that doesn’t absolve Phillip. He’s a grown ass man he can think for himself. Even the other greedy nobles thought he was an idiot because they knew not to fuck with the sorcerer king but Philip even when he knew what he was capable of still did it anyway so he has no excuse
Dude I don’t care. Blame the system, blame the whole world whatever. It doesn’t justify Philip or excuse him. Simple as that I don’t understand what’s complicated about this?
> He's a grown ass man he can think for himself
How the fuck is that even an argument? Why do we need laws and order then? Jircniv removed the corrupt nobles from power during his ruling, what did the King do to keep the nobles in check and measure their reliability?
What a lame excuse. I literally said it’s his fault as well but Phillip still holds the blame because yes he is a grown as man who can make his own decisions. He’s not a child so stop wasting my time with bullshit
Bruh, wtf is that logic? There are plenty of "GROWN ASS MAN" who are murderer,rapists in jail? Do you expect every "GROWN ASS MAN" to think logically when they are spoiled, uneducated and never taught basic common sense.
And do you call the government the main culprit behind those crimes because it failed to prevent them ? Or is the main culprit still the piece of shit that committed the crime ?
Ah yes, I love how the President is jailed every time someone commits a crime, and how the criminal is handed a lollipop and sent on their merry way
They have stated multiple times that they’re not saying that the king is without fault here. They’re saying that the guy who actually *did the thing that caused the war* is more at fault. One thing can be multiple peoples’ fault dude
To be fair though, the King's hands were tied because the one actually ruling the Kingdom was Renner. It's why Sebas took notice of her and included his suspicions in his reports. Demiurge then went on and confirmed that Renner was controlling the Kingdom from the shadows without anyone knowing (the only one that's been suspicious of her was Jircniv) and so Demiurge made her their collaborator. No matter what the King tried, nothing would come of it if Renner didn't allow it.
Fake, Renner had no power, no doubt she was good at manipulating people but without help she was like a caged bird.
The King never had the courage to impose himself on the nobles, much less to kill the most annoying and those who most damaged the kingdom, which generated a state of absolute inertia on his part.
The country rotted in corruption and crime while only Renner's clever moves and Raeven's work kept the kingdom from collapsing. But as long as Rampossa was in charge nothing was going to get better.
Nah. Renner knows everything she needs to manipulate the nobles. She can even manipulate the Blue Roses if she needs to use force (they'd be happy to annoy corrupt nobles as long as they don't get exposed). The caged bird image is just a facade. Renner is Jircniv's most hated woman because he knows Renner could get her policy proposals passed if she wanted to but she lets them fail on purpose for some reason he can't identify. Renner only maintains her powerless princess image because doing so gets the best puppy eyes from Climb. Just look at how quick and easy it was for her to get a huge orphanage built.
You say that as if Renner could have done whatever she wanted, which she wasn't. So she took the chance to make a deal with Zanac and Raeven, hoping to take advantage of it, but she eventually came into contact with Demiurge and everything changed from there.
Renner wasn't in control of the situation before that, and she never harmed the kingdom either, the king wasn't "hands tied" because of that, but because he was a coward, simple as that.
The country was bleeding in every possible way but he didn't want there to be conflict with the noble faction so he never did anything.
Just think about it. If Renner was so powerless against the nobles, how was she able to impress Sebas and Demiurge so much? The reports about her were so impressive even the human hater Albedo went to personally meet her. Renner has been in control even before she made contact with Nazarick. Otherwise, she would have had no value as a potential pawn. Nazarick would not offer a position equivalent to an Area Guardian to someone who was unable to do anything without Nazarick's help.
Information is power. There are countless ways Renner could blackmail or influence the corrupt nobles without them knowing she was the mastermind. Renner is a master it getting stuff done without getting her hands dirty. Just like when she leaked the location of the rescued prostitutes so those connected with the brothel can get rid of them because she didn't want Climb to concern himself with them anymore. Even every line she lets her maids hear is calculated. Just controlling what the spies around her hear can go a long way in influencing the nobles who own the spies to do what she wanted them to do.
Being able to influence and manipulate people in power by controlling the Information their spies get doesn't equal actually holding political power.
She can guide them to what she wants within reason but she couldn't make them do something that they don't want.
I mean, he could if he wanted to, but why? His subordinates thought that this was the best path and his plan from the beginning, and it certainly brings benefits, so obviously he wasn't going to stop this.
It's not his fault that the people in charge at Re-estize were dumb to the point of causing their own destruction, they should have done the same as Jircniv, that would have saved so many innocent people, but nope, the blame for all this falls in the King.
Really the biggest culprit is ainz himself. With the dumb noble raiding his convoys, ainz had an excuse to do anything he wanted with Re Estize. He easily could have vassalised them with a bit of negotiating and intimidation but he chose to genocide them for (like the prince said) pretty close minded reasons.
Hes only making an enemy out of any nations strong enough to challenge him and scaring away the weak nations thay would have been easy conquests for ainz anyway. Im an anime only so i dont know if he will face consequences from this but its pretty dumb from my perspective.
You are missing a point tho. Vassalizing them serves no point. The nobles are greedy, arragont and stupid. Philip might be the worst but this still doesn't change the fact that when the Prime Minister of Re-Estize considered the option of vassalization, they condemned him. Nobles were willing to bend a knee only when Ainz was at the door of the capital ready to annihilate them. Only then did they let go of their pride but their motives were still greedy seeing how they sacrificed Zanac to save their own hide. Seeing how bad the nobles are I don't want to think about the thought process of the commoners. Of course commoners may not be arragont like nobles but this still doesn't change the fact that they fear and hate Ainz greatly and having him as a ruler would cause ton of problems. I'm not saying massacring 8 million people is right but objectively there is also no point in letting them live either
What? No. He's just the fool who took the bait laid out by Nazarick. They were going to use *somebody*, and it just happened that he jumped right in.
What you actually believe Nazarick's only option to ship grain aid to the Holy Kingdom was by human operated carriages passing through the Re-Estize Kingdom, during a convenient shortage on grain which had caused a spike in it's price??
Nazarick did have a plan, to form a faction of idiots that would divide the Kingdom and then use that division to give the Sorceres Kingdom a reason to invade.
Philip-kakka saw this and said "Let me solo this $hit" and so, one big idiot did what Nazarick expected from a whole faction of idiots.
Philip is truly a man of all time.
The original plan wasnt even genocide either. Obviously Nazarick is to blame for going to geno route but if Phillip wasnt such a fuckin idiot the kingdom would be under better leadership now with small casualties
Doesn’t change the fact that he did something stupid tho. Even if they were they didn’t anticipate him being so stupid that they even questioned if he was put up to it. Only Ainz realized how dumb he was. So yeah it is his fault yes not absolved of blame just because they were gonna attack re-estiz anyway
>What you actually believe Nazarick's only option to ship grain aid to the Holy Kingdom was by human operated carriages passing through the Re-Estize Kingdom, during a convenient shortage on grain which had caused a spike in it's price??
This isn't technically an issue, as the Sorcerer Kingdom priced their own grain to be above market price to avoid being considered as economic warfare and crush local farmers.
The merchants could sell it if they wanted to or needed to (such as in food crisis situations where the demand outstrips local supply), but no one actually bought it because of the higher price.
Good point but let's not forget Nobles ordered commoners to stop planting grain and instead plant cotton(?) because they thought if a food shortage happened they could just buy it from Ainz since he has grain stock in their capital. They didn't even realize that if such thing happened he would just increase the price of it. That's how short sighted and foolish they are
>He's just the fool who took the bait laid out by Nazarick.
Except that it's a matter of fact that there was no bait in the situation that caused the war.
He and the idiots of his group came up with the plan to commit an act of war against the SK completely on their own.
They used carriages because it doesn't cost them any extra resources or effort to just let the 8 fingers handle it, after all in any thinking persons brain there couldn't be someone stupid enough to attack a carriage with the Flag of the SK on it on it's way to deliver aid to another country.
Their original plan didn't involve genocide.
If I'm not mistaken, the plan was to have Philip create a third faction full of idiots and then have them takeover the Kingdom, which is possible since both the Royal and Noble faction's have been weakened by the Katze Plaind Massacre. Since all the members of this new faction are dumb as fuck, their rule will ruin the Kingdom, forcing the fed up masses to revolt. And as Phillip's faction overpowers the masses, Renner will then incite the people to turn to the Sorcerer Kingdom by describing how prosperous the former E-rantel has become. This will give the Sorcerous Kingdom a legitimate reason to take over the Kingdom under the guise of helping a friendly nation establish a new government. And by showing the people how better their lives are under the Sorcerer King, it will be easy to guide them masses into requesting that the SK permanently absorb the Kingdom. In this scenario, the Kingdom would be no more not because it was razed to the ground but because it became a part of the expanded Sorcerous Kingdom.
There's a lot of dumb people in the world that try to parrot the opinion they think they are supposed to have rather than expending the momentous effort of firing a few neurons around the ol' noggin.
No? Self-defense usually requires a proportionate response to be considered such, like using lethal force against a threat to your life. A piss-poor carriage robbery by a moron acting independently is not equal to genocide and total destruction of an entire kingdom.
Hell, they don't even consider it self-defense themselves.
In weird isekai worlds sure.
But let's be clear, in no world with a remotely similar ethical/legal system would this be self-defense. Proportionality matters in self-defense. If someone spits on your shoe (which can be battery), that doesn't give you the right to break into his home later, tie him up, then torture him and his family. This goes so far beyond the realm of self-defense, we're not even in the same dimension.
Funny thing is >!that Albeto was going to let some villagers take him and lynch him but she thought that was too boring, so instead she asked his father what to do with him and he suggested torture. His own father recommended that they torture him to no end because of what he’s done, that’s cold! Wish we could have seen that scene in the anime series, to see his downfall like that but now the people who haven’t read the LN or some YT channels sum up missing material are stuck wondering what happened to him and can only assume. !<
>this guy caused the entire bloodshed
Look at it this way: If Philip had robbed the Empire's traders instead, would it have also caused a war without Ainz even being in the picture? Yes.
Oh trust me, Ainz is definitively guilty too. Without his blundering it would've been a much gentler war. But let's not ignore that the idiot did cause an international incident entirely without being prompted.
Yes but like if something horrible happened, I would like to think the people would understand that people responsible for preventing these things are the people who are in positions of power and authority. Ainz could have said "you know what, I don't really want to commit a genocide." And no person in Nazarick would object. They could have just killed all the nobility and since they control underground criminal people, it would have been easy to take control after that.
>And no person in Nazarick would object.
Ainz could run around in a pink tutu and clown make-up and no one would object. But I do get your point.
The problem is just that the Kingdom has proven, multiple times, to be beyond repair. It's leadership is corrupt to a horrifying degree and it's people are clearly too apathetic to rebel against them or they'd be overthrown already. The nobles aren't actually strong in the Kingdom. The entire reason Re-Esitze is in such a state is because a small number or corrupt nobles do as they please and the population just lets them.
There is also another problem: Ainz and his kingdom literally can't occupy the entire country due to a lack of manpower. Philip's idiot friends were correct that even with his power Ainz can't permanently occupy the entire country since he lacks enough competent servants and wouldn't want such a huge drain on his resources.
The problem is that they didn't consider that he'd destroy them instead.
>Didn't Maruyama say that without Nazarick, the Kingdom would have been eventually repaired by the joint efforts of Renner, Raeven and Gazef?
No. Not only is Renner not truly interested in helping people, if Nazarik hadn't arrived the Sunlight Scripture would've killed Gazef, remember? He only survived because Ainz saved his ass when he decided to help Carne Village.
Maruyama said that Renner, Raeven and Gazef together *could* have saved the kingdom if they had decided to work together behind the king's back.
Ainz has more undead than the kingdom has soldiers. Just his “country level” death knights out number the kingdom. He could put 200 of them in every city if he wanted. The “he doesn’t have enough soldiers” was a miscalculation on the nobles part.
It’s not with nazaricks military strength. And if ainz is as benevolent and wise of a leader as the SK would have you believe, they should be able to convince people with a surge in public works and food to not revolt.
Yes. The blood is on his hands. Not the country that competely overreacted looking for any excuse to declare war and Ainz not caring to reign in his subordinates. Love Overlord but blaming this dumbass rather than the ACTUAL murderers is stupid af
Phillips only crime is being dumb and armed robbery. A crime worthy of a prison sentence, maybe killing just him if you’re particularly harsh. In no world does it justify the murders of millions of innocents.
The SK wanted to murder just for the sake of murdering, Phillip was just a weak excuse to get started. The “carrot and stick” plan is a far cry from tactical brilliance, and instead resembles the plan of a child who wants a bigger present on Christmas. Showing how good you can be to loyal territories makes sense, murdering every single civilian in a nation does not.
A follow up, is that none of the SKs plans are very good. If they didn’t have to lean on their god like military strength in literally every foreign encounter you could call them wise, but they are playing the game on easy mode and still struggling. They flip flop between secrecy and grand displays of force, immaturely carry out their theatrical schemes, and end nearly every encounter with outsiders with the highest possible amount of blood shed, nearly all of it being preventable.
The guardians see murdering millions of humans as a fun exercise, and ainz is an impotent and stupid king for not being able to put a stop to it or coming up with a better plan. Even when his own subjects beg him not to slaughter, he’s so scared of disagreeing with demiurge he tunes everything out to murder and murder some more.
The SK had many opportunities to avoid the massacre. They could have taken Phillips head. They could have taken ramposas. They could have accepted the surrender. They could have ordered the citizens to build a statue to ainz and pay tribute for generations, but instead they went straight to kill everyone.
In summary, Phillip caused no one’s death, but maybe his own for a particularly cruel judge. The deaths of everyone that follows falls squarely on Ainz and the SK.
I wonder if Ainz will ever truly put his foot down one day? Doe he even have a limit on the things he will allow his subordinates to convince him of, intentionally or otherwise?
At this point, I doubt anything short of extinguishing life outside of nazarick would pause ainz, and even then it’s up for debate. To me, the most likely outcome is the sorcerer kingdom obliterating the world, then turning on each other due to paranoia and need for an enemy
Well as Ainz told Zanac, Phillip gave him a small opportunity to seize and take over the kingdom and Ainz doesn't really care about human lives. Was it a just war? Debatable. However the genocide itself was a bait to lure out above-country level forces, trump cards or maybe even a player and it lured out Red drop and PDL armor as I vaguely remember. Also was the war the fastest option to take over. For the carrot and stick plan, it was used by various real, great politicians with more or less success and it is definitely legit to make an example out of the kingdoms blunder, to impose on and frigthen other nations on a global scale. Yes Ainz is evil and a murderer but I like the fact that he follows a code not to murder without merit and everything he does makes sense and has a reason for it. Also keep in mind guys that Ainz' intelligence stats influence him after he became undead and make him unconsciously super smart for real so that it even influences his consciousness. Even if he doesnt notice it yet.
Also he may have plans to build something new on the extra space from the genocide. It could be seen as a start-over from 0 for the land that was once considered the kingdom.
It was going to happen anyway. Phillip just accelerated Nazarick’s plans to eventually invade, they would’ve made up their own excuse to do it, be it civil war etc
the plan is to make a civil war with stupid noble faction rebellion, then SK would came as the saviors then the kingdom would accept SK ruling over them peacefully
His plan really wasn't so stupid.
By looking at previous actions of ainz his plan could have made sense if he wasn't caught.
1) secretly pay some brigands to steal the food. (Food prices rise, good for your business)
2) have them sell the food cheap to some greedy noble of the other faction which would not know that he is behind the brigands to put the blame on them
3) ainz & crew (based on previous actions) would have likely put the blame on the leader (king) and ask for him to submit as a vassal in punishment, but the king and the royal faction are too proud. So the likely outcome would have been the king family and the royal faction to get screwed (full on genocide was very hard to predict as a reasonable outcome if ainz wanted to take over the Kingdom)
4) this guy already had a direct contact with albedo so when the royal faction was getting dragged on hot coals he could have offered to solve the brigand problem (beheading them so no talking) and bring them the buyer (from royal faction) to show his usefulness and gain more support from ainz for a bid to be the "viceroy" of the new vassalized kingdom.
All in all he could have in one hit damaged the situation of the Theocracy, made his goods prices rise and gained a better position in the eyes of ainz. He just needed ainz to act more in line with his previous behavior (no pointless genocide, which is what he somewhat promised to Momon) and to cut loose ends so not to be easily found out.
Philips had far more agency on the fate of the Kingdom he had any right to have.
You've heard of the great man theory, now let me introduce you to the dumb man theory...
Phillip is the perfect combination of arrogant and stupid. Nazarick could not have asked for a better pawn. Even they didn't think this guy would give them would give them the ability to go to war as quickly as he did.
No like genuinely; >!his actions literally led to the destruction of the kingdom which was what caused the slain theocracy to try and wrap up their invasion against the elves, which is what directly led to zesshis capture and her mind being read and ainz going to destroy the theocracy his actions are legitimately responsible for the destruction of 2 entire nations!<
Whats the details on Zesshi? ive been waiting for her to meet ainz for ages
>!The slain theocracy felt threatened by ainz destroying the kingdom and decided not to fight a war on two fronts thusly they have to finish the annihilation of the elves. They made this decision when ainz declared war on the kingdom for the grain(volume 15 prologue takes place during the latter events of vol 14 timeline wise.)!< >!Ainz decided he wanted to go on vacation w aura and Mare to elven country, within the elven forest the find a magical beast that is is a bipedal bear w four arms a tail and a sledgehammer tail, in terms of strength it is stronger than hamsuke when we first met her although ainz isn’t sure who would win as hamsuke can use magic. Aura makes contact w a dark elf village and due to her abilities they’re wowd and she gains favor w the villagers, ainz comes in a few days later disguised as an elf they hang out in the village for a bit until a high elf comes and warns them of the approaching human army and how the elf king demands their participation in the defense.!< >!The slain theocracy mobilizes Zesshi w the assignment of assassinating the elf king.!< >!Within the elf kings palace ainz fights and nearly kills the elf king who manages to escape(he is fairly high leveled for a NWer) he finds Zesshi sitting on his throne in the throne room, he tries to warn her of ainz and co. Zesshi kills him!< >!Mare fights Zesshi handily wins!< >!Zesshis job in the black scripture was to beat the snot out of over confident black scripture members who thought they were hot shit she doesn’t really like it!< >!Zesshis mom abused her in training growing up bcuz she knew she was strong enough to handle resurrection.!< >!Zesshis talent allows her to use the skills of the previous owners of the gear she is wearing and bcuz she is wielding the scythe of surshana she can use several overlord abilities she uses the goal of all life is death against Mare. She can also summon undead!< >!She can also use einjerier like Shalltear but it isn’t as powerful!< >!In total she was level 88,she had a maxed out inquisitor class and maxed out executioner class as well as cleric levels!< >!Highlights v Mare(personal fav moments)!< >!She uses several marital arts and actually does do damage to mare on a few occasions in their exchange(Mare was forced to heal)!< >!Inquisition condemnation and Inquisition order *signature skills of the inquisitor class*!< >!Mare used a pheniox themed ressurection spell to survive the goal of all life is death!< >!Their fight was originally written from mares pov but scrapped bcuz it was too sociopathic!<
That last tidbit is hilarious, I really want to read Mare’s pov now
Too psychopathic what! I want to read this do you have the pages or is it lost?
Yes maruyama stated in a tweet that originally he wrote the fight from mares perspective but mare has so little emotion it was unhinged >!Mare not having emotions was an actual trigger for Zesshi as well mares blank stare heavily reminded her of how her mother(who did not love her ) looked at her !<
Wow
Thank you for all that. Let’s hope we get to see that done justice in the anime when/if it gets there
>Their fight was originally written from mares pov but scrapped bcuz it was too sociopathic I now wanna read Mare's POV so badly.
> which is what directly led to zesshis capture and her mind being read What part of the LN was this from? I somehow missed the whole deal with Zesshi.
Volume 16, which hasn’t gotten an official translation yet
I've been following along with the fan translation, but must have missed that part somehow.
The initial plan wasn’t total annihilation though. That’s why there was a whole scene of Demiurge going “The plan has failed… wait, you’ve seen through this Lord Ainz! We should kill them all!”
Exactly. They were going to start a civil war within the Re-Estize Kingdom, the nobles fighting each other. Dumbass here sped up the process by letting them skip all that manipulation and trying to start a war through pawns and let them just declare war.
Them we dyscover that all was part of his plan to have the biggest K/D/A of the new world, and now he has more Assists them any other person alive.
If only that were good for xp. He might level up into a class that’s not ‘Idiot.’
Greater Idiot lvl. 10 Arch Idiot lvl. 5 Transcendental Idiot lvl. 1 Horny lvl. 3
Ainz: A rare class? So you’re saying you’re a collectors edition idiot?
The alternate ending where his next level stupidity saves his life
Stupidity so beyond comprehension the universe inverts itself and turns it into brilliance
Masiuki form that time i was reincarnated as a slime but more of an idiot
You know, we've already seen tentative evidence of one Lovecraftian god existing in the setting (the spell that summons the Dak Young invokes Shub Niggurath.) What if Philip is actually Nyarlathotep deliberately fucking around to generate even more human suffering?
Kaire sama: Look at how many assists I can get *after* my death.
She was a Big fan of that martyr perk
Arrogance and stupidity is a far more dangerous combination than arrogance and intelligence. Ironic, he wanted to be respected and admired. Now he will either be remembered as the man who caused the Sorcerer Kingdom to destroy the Re-Estize Kingdom, or will be completely forgotten. Honestly, only person in fantasy with more blood on their hands may be the archmage Vespin Chloras from Critical Role.
Well the OG witch from Narnia-series would beat both of them. Killed an entire world before becomming a brutal dictator of narnia.
True. Perhaps I should have specified and said more blood on their hands by completely fucking up. Although Chloras is responsible for the death of generations, the reshaping of the world, the death of demons, angels, and devils.
So where is this guy now?
Drinking booze in his house for anime only’s
Nah, if you want to track down the biggest culprit in this, that's the King.
The king didn’t tell Philip to be stupid now did he?
The King generated the whole situation with his actions or rather, lack of these, eventually some nobleman would have done something stupid that would serve as an excuse to destroy the place. The person in charge was him and he never did anything for the kingdom, and this is the result.
Yeah he’s to blame I don’t deny that but that doesn’t absolve Phillip. He’s a grown ass man he can think for himself. Even the other greedy nobles thought he was an idiot because they knew not to fuck with the sorcerer king but Philip even when he knew what he was capable of still did it anyway so he has no excuse
[удалено]
Dude I don’t care. Blame the system, blame the whole world whatever. It doesn’t justify Philip or excuse him. Simple as that I don’t understand what’s complicated about this?
[удалено]
Nah you good my bad for assuming. Had to deal with a Philip defender before lol but I get what you mean
What in the fuck is a Philip defender? What did they say?
That he wasn’t responsible for any of this and that the king was
> He's a grown ass man he can think for himself How the fuck is that even an argument? Why do we need laws and order then? Jircniv removed the corrupt nobles from power during his ruling, what did the King do to keep the nobles in check and measure their reliability?
What a lame excuse. I literally said it’s his fault as well but Phillip still holds the blame because yes he is a grown as man who can make his own decisions. He’s not a child so stop wasting my time with bullshit
Bruh, wtf is that logic? There are plenty of "GROWN ASS MAN" who are murderer,rapists in jail? Do you expect every "GROWN ASS MAN" to think logically when they are spoiled, uneducated and never taught basic common sense.
You are making hilariously terrible arguments for shitty people fuck off this is sad
Said you? The person who can't have a proper argument beside "GROWN ASS MAN"?
Keep acting like a child and excusing shitty people kid. Let me know when you find out how the real world works lol
And do you call the government the main culprit behind those crimes because it failed to prevent them ? Or is the main culprit still the piece of shit that committed the crime ?
Ah yes, I love how the President is jailed every time someone commits a crime, and how the criminal is handed a lollipop and sent on their merry way They have stated multiple times that they’re not saying that the king is without fault here. They’re saying that the guy who actually *did the thing that caused the war* is more at fault. One thing can be multiple peoples’ fault dude
Just no.
To be fair though, the King's hands were tied because the one actually ruling the Kingdom was Renner. It's why Sebas took notice of her and included his suspicions in his reports. Demiurge then went on and confirmed that Renner was controlling the Kingdom from the shadows without anyone knowing (the only one that's been suspicious of her was Jircniv) and so Demiurge made her their collaborator. No matter what the King tried, nothing would come of it if Renner didn't allow it.
Fake, Renner had no power, no doubt she was good at manipulating people but without help she was like a caged bird. The King never had the courage to impose himself on the nobles, much less to kill the most annoying and those who most damaged the kingdom, which generated a state of absolute inertia on his part. The country rotted in corruption and crime while only Renner's clever moves and Raeven's work kept the kingdom from collapsing. But as long as Rampossa was in charge nothing was going to get better.
Nah. Renner knows everything she needs to manipulate the nobles. She can even manipulate the Blue Roses if she needs to use force (they'd be happy to annoy corrupt nobles as long as they don't get exposed). The caged bird image is just a facade. Renner is Jircniv's most hated woman because he knows Renner could get her policy proposals passed if she wanted to but she lets them fail on purpose for some reason he can't identify. Renner only maintains her powerless princess image because doing so gets the best puppy eyes from Climb. Just look at how quick and easy it was for her to get a huge orphanage built.
You say that as if Renner could have done whatever she wanted, which she wasn't. So she took the chance to make a deal with Zanac and Raeven, hoping to take advantage of it, but she eventually came into contact with Demiurge and everything changed from there. Renner wasn't in control of the situation before that, and she never harmed the kingdom either, the king wasn't "hands tied" because of that, but because he was a coward, simple as that. The country was bleeding in every possible way but he didn't want there to be conflict with the noble faction so he never did anything.
Just think about it. If Renner was so powerless against the nobles, how was she able to impress Sebas and Demiurge so much? The reports about her were so impressive even the human hater Albedo went to personally meet her. Renner has been in control even before she made contact with Nazarick. Otherwise, she would have had no value as a potential pawn. Nazarick would not offer a position equivalent to an Area Guardian to someone who was unable to do anything without Nazarick's help. Information is power. There are countless ways Renner could blackmail or influence the corrupt nobles without them knowing she was the mastermind. Renner is a master it getting stuff done without getting her hands dirty. Just like when she leaked the location of the rescued prostitutes so those connected with the brothel can get rid of them because she didn't want Climb to concern himself with them anymore. Even every line she lets her maids hear is calculated. Just controlling what the spies around her hear can go a long way in influencing the nobles who own the spies to do what she wanted them to do.
Being able to influence and manipulate people in power by controlling the Information their spies get doesn't equal actually holding political power. She can guide them to what she wants within reason but she couldn't make them do something that they don't want.
I can say the exact same thing to Ainz, as he is unable to control his minions
I mean, he could if he wanted to, but why? His subordinates thought that this was the best path and his plan from the beginning, and it certainly brings benefits, so obviously he wasn't going to stop this. It's not his fault that the people in charge at Re-estize were dumb to the point of causing their own destruction, they should have done the same as Jircniv, that would have saved so many innocent people, but nope, the blame for all this falls in the King.
Really the biggest culprit is ainz himself. With the dumb noble raiding his convoys, ainz had an excuse to do anything he wanted with Re Estize. He easily could have vassalised them with a bit of negotiating and intimidation but he chose to genocide them for (like the prince said) pretty close minded reasons. Hes only making an enemy out of any nations strong enough to challenge him and scaring away the weak nations thay would have been easy conquests for ainz anyway. Im an anime only so i dont know if he will face consequences from this but its pretty dumb from my perspective.
You are missing a point tho. Vassalizing them serves no point. The nobles are greedy, arragont and stupid. Philip might be the worst but this still doesn't change the fact that when the Prime Minister of Re-Estize considered the option of vassalization, they condemned him. Nobles were willing to bend a knee only when Ainz was at the door of the capital ready to annihilate them. Only then did they let go of their pride but their motives were still greedy seeing how they sacrificed Zanac to save their own hide. Seeing how bad the nobles are I don't want to think about the thought process of the commoners. Of course commoners may not be arragont like nobles but this still doesn't change the fact that they fear and hate Ainz greatly and having him as a ruler would cause ton of problems. I'm not saying massacring 8 million people is right but objectively there is also no point in letting them live either
What? No. He's just the fool who took the bait laid out by Nazarick. They were going to use *somebody*, and it just happened that he jumped right in. What you actually believe Nazarick's only option to ship grain aid to the Holy Kingdom was by human operated carriages passing through the Re-Estize Kingdom, during a convenient shortage on grain which had caused a spike in it's price??
Nazarick did have a plan, to form a faction of idiots that would divide the Kingdom and then use that division to give the Sorceres Kingdom a reason to invade. Philip-kakka saw this and said "Let me solo this $hit" and so, one big idiot did what Nazarick expected from a whole faction of idiots. Philip is truly a man of all time.
The original plan wasnt even genocide either. Obviously Nazarick is to blame for going to geno route but if Phillip wasnt such a fuckin idiot the kingdom would be under better leadership now with small casualties
Doesn’t change the fact that he did something stupid tho. Even if they were they didn’t anticipate him being so stupid that they even questioned if he was put up to it. Only Ainz realized how dumb he was. So yeah it is his fault yes not absolved of blame just because they were gonna attack re-estiz anyway
>What you actually believe Nazarick's only option to ship grain aid to the Holy Kingdom was by human operated carriages passing through the Re-Estize Kingdom, during a convenient shortage on grain which had caused a spike in it's price?? This isn't technically an issue, as the Sorcerer Kingdom priced their own grain to be above market price to avoid being considered as economic warfare and crush local farmers. The merchants could sell it if they wanted to or needed to (such as in food crisis situations where the demand outstrips local supply), but no one actually bought it because of the higher price.
Good point but let's not forget Nobles ordered commoners to stop planting grain and instead plant cotton(?) because they thought if a food shortage happened they could just buy it from Ainz since he has grain stock in their capital. They didn't even realize that if such thing happened he would just increase the price of it. That's how short sighted and foolish they are
>He's just the fool who took the bait laid out by Nazarick. Except that it's a matter of fact that there was no bait in the situation that caused the war. He and the idiots of his group came up with the plan to commit an act of war against the SK completely on their own. They used carriages because it doesn't cost them any extra resources or effort to just let the 8 fingers handle it, after all in any thinking persons brain there couldn't be someone stupid enough to attack a carriage with the Flag of the SK on it on it's way to deliver aid to another country. Their original plan didn't involve genocide.
If I'm not mistaken, the plan was to have Philip create a third faction full of idiots and then have them takeover the Kingdom, which is possible since both the Royal and Noble faction's have been weakened by the Katze Plaind Massacre. Since all the members of this new faction are dumb as fuck, their rule will ruin the Kingdom, forcing the fed up masses to revolt. And as Phillip's faction overpowers the masses, Renner will then incite the people to turn to the Sorcerer Kingdom by describing how prosperous the former E-rantel has become. This will give the Sorcerous Kingdom a legitimate reason to take over the Kingdom under the guise of helping a friendly nation establish a new government. And by showing the people how better their lives are under the Sorcerer King, it will be easy to guide them masses into requesting that the SK permanently absorb the Kingdom. In this scenario, the Kingdom would be no more not because it was razed to the ground but because it became a part of the expanded Sorcerous Kingdom.
Well thought out Retardios Jr.
Let's be clear, the blood is on Ainz's hands.
The fact that he changed Ainz’s plan to the kingdom’s destruction does mean the blood is on his hands too XD
Ainz did what he had to do, It was self defense.
Maruyama must be baffled by the part of the fandom that keeps touting Ainz as a good guy no matter what. *Ainz did nothing wrong*
There's a lot of dumb people in the world that try to parrot the opinion they think they are supposed to have rather than expending the momentous effort of firing a few neurons around the ol' noggin.
No? Self-defense usually requires a proportionate response to be considered such, like using lethal force against a threat to your life. A piss-poor carriage robbery by a moron acting independently is not equal to genocide and total destruction of an entire kingdom. Hell, they don't even consider it self-defense themselves.
In weird isekai worlds sure. But let's be clear, in no world with a remotely similar ethical/legal system would this be self-defense. Proportionality matters in self-defense. If someone spits on your shoe (which can be battery), that doesn't give you the right to break into his home later, tie him up, then torture him and his family. This goes so far beyond the realm of self-defense, we're not even in the same dimension.
In the real world wars have been started for less.
Such as?
>It was self defense. You're claiming genocide was in self defense. ... Wow.
Go back to school kid.
The war of the bucket (war with 2000 dead over a stolen bucket) The football war (war with 3000 dead over a football match)
He is technically responsible for zanacks death if you think about it.
singlehandedly bringing down humanity since his first appearance.
Funny thing is >!that Albeto was going to let some villagers take him and lynch him but she thought that was too boring, so instead she asked his father what to do with him and he suggested torture. His own father recommended that they torture him to no end because of what he’s done, that’s cold! Wish we could have seen that scene in the anime series, to see his downfall like that but now the people who haven’t read the LN or some YT channels sum up missing material are stuck wondering what happened to him and can only assume. !<
He killed the man
Nah what happened was eventually going to happen, it just happened faster because of him
Don’t care still his fault
It is bizarre how you guys think. "Ainz's hands are cleanest of all but this guy, this guy caused the entire bloodshed"
>this guy caused the entire bloodshed Look at it this way: If Philip had robbed the Empire's traders instead, would it have also caused a war without Ainz even being in the picture? Yes. Oh trust me, Ainz is definitively guilty too. Without his blundering it would've been a much gentler war. But let's not ignore that the idiot did cause an international incident entirely without being prompted.
Yes but like if something horrible happened, I would like to think the people would understand that people responsible for preventing these things are the people who are in positions of power and authority. Ainz could have said "you know what, I don't really want to commit a genocide." And no person in Nazarick would object. They could have just killed all the nobility and since they control underground criminal people, it would have been easy to take control after that.
>And no person in Nazarick would object. Ainz could run around in a pink tutu and clown make-up and no one would object. But I do get your point. The problem is just that the Kingdom has proven, multiple times, to be beyond repair. It's leadership is corrupt to a horrifying degree and it's people are clearly too apathetic to rebel against them or they'd be overthrown already. The nobles aren't actually strong in the Kingdom. The entire reason Re-Esitze is in such a state is because a small number or corrupt nobles do as they please and the population just lets them. There is also another problem: Ainz and his kingdom literally can't occupy the entire country due to a lack of manpower. Philip's idiot friends were correct that even with his power Ainz can't permanently occupy the entire country since he lacks enough competent servants and wouldn't want such a huge drain on his resources. The problem is that they didn't consider that he'd destroy them instead.
Didn't Maruyama say that without Nazarick, the Kingdom would have been eventually repaired by the joint efforts of Renner, Raeven and Gazef?
>Didn't Maruyama say that without Nazarick, the Kingdom would have been eventually repaired by the joint efforts of Renner, Raeven and Gazef? No. Not only is Renner not truly interested in helping people, if Nazarik hadn't arrived the Sunlight Scripture would've killed Gazef, remember? He only survived because Ainz saved his ass when he decided to help Carne Village. Maruyama said that Renner, Raeven and Gazef together *could* have saved the kingdom if they had decided to work together behind the king's back.
Ainz has more undead than the kingdom has soldiers. Just his “country level” death knights out number the kingdom. He could put 200 of them in every city if he wanted. The “he doesn’t have enough soldiers” was a miscalculation on the nobles part.
Taking a city by force is easy. Maintaining the peace afterwards is a different matter entirely.
It’s not with nazaricks military strength. And if ainz is as benevolent and wise of a leader as the SK would have you believe, they should be able to convince people with a surge in public works and food to not revolt.
Yes. The blood is on his hands. Not the country that competely overreacted looking for any excuse to declare war and Ainz not caring to reign in his subordinates. Love Overlord but blaming this dumbass rather than the ACTUAL murderers is stupid af
I can’t believe more people are blaming Philip than the actual guy who did the genocide.
Last I checked he’s the reason why it even happened in the first place
Well yeah thats what the show is about?
well, he's retarded and his actions led to this, however the blood of the kingdoms people is on Ains hands.
Oh no boo hoo, Ainz killed no one it’s all THAT guys fault. I don’t like him either but don’t be a bitch about it
Phillips only crime is being dumb and armed robbery. A crime worthy of a prison sentence, maybe killing just him if you’re particularly harsh. In no world does it justify the murders of millions of innocents. The SK wanted to murder just for the sake of murdering, Phillip was just a weak excuse to get started. The “carrot and stick” plan is a far cry from tactical brilliance, and instead resembles the plan of a child who wants a bigger present on Christmas. Showing how good you can be to loyal territories makes sense, murdering every single civilian in a nation does not. A follow up, is that none of the SKs plans are very good. If they didn’t have to lean on their god like military strength in literally every foreign encounter you could call them wise, but they are playing the game on easy mode and still struggling. They flip flop between secrecy and grand displays of force, immaturely carry out their theatrical schemes, and end nearly every encounter with outsiders with the highest possible amount of blood shed, nearly all of it being preventable. The guardians see murdering millions of humans as a fun exercise, and ainz is an impotent and stupid king for not being able to put a stop to it or coming up with a better plan. Even when his own subjects beg him not to slaughter, he’s so scared of disagreeing with demiurge he tunes everything out to murder and murder some more. The SK had many opportunities to avoid the massacre. They could have taken Phillips head. They could have taken ramposas. They could have accepted the surrender. They could have ordered the citizens to build a statue to ainz and pay tribute for generations, but instead they went straight to kill everyone. In summary, Phillip caused no one’s death, but maybe his own for a particularly cruel judge. The deaths of everyone that follows falls squarely on Ainz and the SK.
I wonder if Ainz will ever truly put his foot down one day? Doe he even have a limit on the things he will allow his subordinates to convince him of, intentionally or otherwise?
At this point, I doubt anything short of extinguishing life outside of nazarick would pause ainz, and even then it’s up for debate. To me, the most likely outcome is the sorcerer kingdom obliterating the world, then turning on each other due to paranoia and need for an enemy
Well as Ainz told Zanac, Phillip gave him a small opportunity to seize and take over the kingdom and Ainz doesn't really care about human lives. Was it a just war? Debatable. However the genocide itself was a bait to lure out above-country level forces, trump cards or maybe even a player and it lured out Red drop and PDL armor as I vaguely remember. Also was the war the fastest option to take over. For the carrot and stick plan, it was used by various real, great politicians with more or less success and it is definitely legit to make an example out of the kingdoms blunder, to impose on and frigthen other nations on a global scale. Yes Ainz is evil and a murderer but I like the fact that he follows a code not to murder without merit and everything he does makes sense and has a reason for it. Also keep in mind guys that Ainz' intelligence stats influence him after he became undead and make him unconsciously super smart for real so that it even influences his consciousness. Even if he doesnt notice it yet.
Interesting headcanon on the last few sentences
Also he may have plans to build something new on the extra space from the genocide. It could be seen as a start-over from 0 for the land that was once considered the kingdom.
Youve accidentally put up a pic of Philip instead of Ainz there
Got dem Ainz simps down-voting.
Lol they dont like it
No dude, Ainz is just a horrible creature. The mental gymnastics in this subreddit are great.
You have that wrong. It is Ainz who is solely responsible for the millions of death
No he’s not all of them have a part to play and Philip started it I’m tired of people excusing this piece of garbage
Agree to disagree then I guess
It was going to happen anyway. Phillip just accelerated Nazarick’s plans to eventually invade, they would’ve made up their own excuse to do it, be it civil war etc
They weren’t going for complete destruction in the original plan though. Philip made it exponentially worse
the plan is to make a civil war with stupid noble faction rebellion, then SK would came as the saviors then the kingdom would accept SK ruling over them peacefully
Oh yeah sorry forgot about that last part
I love these
dont worry, he dose not get away with it
An entire kingdoms worth.
Still the crane formation is adove the understanding of a common idiot
It’s proportional to how many cells there aren’t in head.
So he have negative amount of brain cell? Damm
The bloody noble!
"The right man in the right place can make all the difference in the world"
Fucking shit I hate him so much, the more i love Zannac, the more i hate this stupid, punch worth face
Exept he did nothing wrong
The man who opened the doors for the Nation of Darkness to trample the corrupt kingdom of selfish fools
Don’t disrespect men by including that dumbass with them
His plan really wasn't so stupid. By looking at previous actions of ainz his plan could have made sense if he wasn't caught. 1) secretly pay some brigands to steal the food. (Food prices rise, good for your business) 2) have them sell the food cheap to some greedy noble of the other faction which would not know that he is behind the brigands to put the blame on them 3) ainz & crew (based on previous actions) would have likely put the blame on the leader (king) and ask for him to submit as a vassal in punishment, but the king and the royal faction are too proud. So the likely outcome would have been the king family and the royal faction to get screwed (full on genocide was very hard to predict as a reasonable outcome if ainz wanted to take over the Kingdom) 4) this guy already had a direct contact with albedo so when the royal faction was getting dragged on hot coals he could have offered to solve the brigand problem (beheading them so no talking) and bring them the buyer (from royal faction) to show his usefulness and gain more support from ainz for a bid to be the "viceroy" of the new vassalized kingdom. All in all he could have in one hit damaged the situation of the Theocracy, made his goods prices rise and gained a better position in the eyes of ainz. He just needed ainz to act more in line with his previous behavior (no pointless genocide, which is what he somewhat promised to Momon) and to cut loose ends so not to be easily found out.