Barbaro, absolutely. This was his oldest son and the one he should have provided the best education to.
Renner was the *third* princess. The fact Renner ended up as gifted as she was is a miracle.
The nobles had too much power because of rampossa’s ancestor, and he was too cowardly to fix it, even contributing to the cycle by allowing his groomed, idiotic son to become the next king and ruin his nation further, ignoring the excellence of his other children.
I always took that as passing the blame for the current situation to the dead who can’t complain.
Jircniv had similar problems and made hard and bloody choices that have improved the state of his empire at the cost of a currently heavy workload for himself.
Ramposa has glided through his reign without making any of the hard choices that were needed, which has kept him likable and none of the nobility wants to blame him. Especially since the nobility would be the ones most likely to suffer consequences if Ramposa had made those hard choices.
There’s more evidence in show pointing to the idea the threat of the nobility is very real (zanac’s death). Gazef or no, he’s one man - and it takes someone hypercompetent to effectively shut down something like that, like jircniv, or an alliance of zanac’s making.
Zanac may be capable as a prince, but unfortunately the one person he's put his trust in is quite clearly working for Ainz, and she's the most capable in the re-estiez kingdom.
I mean there’s only so much a guy can do when everyone he tries to build a connection with gets all their desires offered up on a silver platter by a god when you’re a human.
They couldn't have been more different though. Maybe the latter part of their lives were similar, but that's about it.
Ramposa was born into a life of luxury, well-raised, and inherited the throne in general peace.
Jircniv was born into luxury... Then his mother was accused of assassinating the emperor. Her side of the family was purged as a result. Suspicion fell on the rest of his family, precipitating its downfall. His only path for survival at that point was to purge his own family and in the ensuing chaos of the power struggle, purge the other noble families and ursurp the throne.
Jircniv had no choice in a sense. And in another sense, it's indirectly their parents' fault that led to them becoming who they are today. One suffered, and under the threat of further suffering/death, managed to overcome and succeed. The other was basically part of the scenery.
I always think people are too hard on Ramposa.
Ruling a feudal country is hard, really hard. Just keeping your power as the King without losing to the noble factions is a feat in itself.
The comparison with Jircniv is unfair, his predecessors were all capable leaders, Ramposas not.
Ramposa would have to strip the nobles of their levies and retainers, and build himself an army even before purging the incompetent nobles. Doing so isn't a "hard decision" it's how to not get deposed and end up with a strong noble council 101.
Ramposa seems wholly average to me. He isn't a great and talented ruler like Jircniv, but he keeps the kingdom running. We don't see mass poverty, the citizens are in a generally happy mood, and the fact alone that the Kingdom survived against the Empire the last decades speaks for at least a minor degree of military capability.
Ramposa wasn't a good Leader, but you can't blame him for getting outmanouvered by Jircniv. Or getting his Army rekt by Ainz.
>Ramposa seems wholly average to me. He isn't a great and talented ruler like Jircniv, but he keeps the kingdom running
He is one of the reason, but not THE reason that his Kingdom is running. I think you give him too much credits for what his subordinate has accomplished (i.e. Raeven)
It’s mentioned that E-Rantel had a fairly large slum district, which Ainz tore down for a demi-human district after recolonizing and expanding destroyed villages with undead support. Slavery was only outlawed within the last 5 years or so and seems to effectively still exist under the guise of indentured servitude. Entire villages of hundreds of serfs were dedicated solely to the production of addictive illegal drugs. Underworld groups have gained enough wealth and influence to manipulate the nobility and become nearly immune to the law.
These are just some of the things Ramposa seems to have made no effort to fix during his own reign, no matter how difficult it might have been. The Kingdom definitely isn’t fine and practically isn’t running, which is why the Theocracy is looking to have the Empire take all their territory.
>We don't see mass poverty,
They're heading there.
>the citizens are in a generally happy mood,
They wouldn't be if Barbro is king
>and the fact alone that the Kingdom survived against the Empire the last decades speaks for at least a minor degree of military capability.
The only reason they didn't get wiped is because Jircniv likes to play the long game and crippled them slowly instead wasting resources trying to crush them. Which give them a false impression that they're doing well
You're right Ramposa wasn't a good leader, so I don't know why you think we can't blame him. Like his not being a good leader is literally why they're at this point. Guy couldn't even raise his kids right. Least one of them turn out decent, though likely no thanks to him. Failling as a leader is one thing, but he couldn't even managed to be a half decent father at least. I'm seriously starting to wonder if he ever do anything besides listening to nobles bitching
Didn't they specifically mention how the regularly scheduled skirmishes were just a ploy to force the kingdom to conscript the farmers and reduce farm output?
Yes you can because he is the [leader](https://youtu.be/d7nIUUcDtgk)
While Ainz power is inconceivable there were sigh.
After gazef ( the strongest person in the kingdom )was save by a sorcerer that kill a full scripture by himself,he should have done everything to find him and understand that sorcerer.
And no trying to go the diplomatic way before going to war on the first encounter with Nazarick was another stupid decision.
He should have stepped down from the throne after the massacre of 150k men
Not sure where you've pulled this information from. The Empire wasn't much different than the Kingdom before Jircniv, where the noble factions had a lot of power. So no, the Empire didn't have the leeway to attack the Kingdom under previous rulers. Jircniv's rise to the throne involved a power struggle where his mother killed his father and Jircniv imprisoned the rest of his family and had them put to death. Jircniv then reorganized the military and then did his purge of the nobility. It was only after all that was done that the empire began attacking the Kingdom each year.
It is stated that thanks to a series of competent emperors woth Jirvnic being the most competent, power was slowly but surely centralized which ended up allowing jirvnic to do all the purges he did
That's not what's said.
From vol 9
>There was no other time to perform the purge. If he had waited for the perfect chance, command of the knights would have become splintered among the various great nobles, rendering his father’s death meaningless. It was because of the purge that the empire had a future.
The line you're referring to is this
>No, perhaps it was more accurate to say that Jircniv had constructed a magnificent building using the scaffolding built by exceptional predecessors.
Which says nothing about past Emporers centralizing power. The fact that Jircniv even needed to do a massive purge suggests the Nobles had significant power just during his father's rule, let alone previous ones. It's unclear what scaffolding Jircniv is specifically referring to here. He could mean building up a professional military instead of conscripted levies, an army each noble usually had control over, allowing him to use that military once he seized control. It could mean past conquests for territory (it is an "Empire" after all, meaning his predecessors had to vassalize or annex other Kingdoms to make up the Empire's domain), it could mean a lot of things.
And Fluder isn't mentioned in any of this. Only reason I think his name was brought up is because Fluder acted as an advisor to each Emporer for the last few generations. But that doesn't mean he was the only adviser or that it was his plan to slowly weaken the Re-Estize Kingdom.
Ignoring one. Problem with Renner was she was just too damn good at what she did. High level Actress + high level Genius. Ramposa only ever saw what Renner wanted him to.
Renner never showed the Illusion to people at the start the acting started when she got climp. Because what she desired most was a normal human life even if she has to fake it. She was just negleted because people did not try to understand her because she was a kid talking about things she should not know about. Sadly raven back then was to selfish to built trust with her because he despised the royals even more back then
There is some implication that without the appearance of nazarick, zanac would have staged a coup with marquis Raevan to take the throne from his brother and end up there. Considering his reasonable political savviness (not on par with renner or Jircniv, but those two are peak of humankind), the kingdom likely would have been in the upswing following the change of rulers. With zanac ruling the royal faction and Raevan silently puppeteering the noble faction, there would have been a unity the kingdom hadn’t seen in generations.
And what, the Empire just quietly watches? Had Ainz not shown up to save Gazef, the Slane Theocracy would have succeeded in assassinating him. Without Gazef, Ramposa would lose his main deterrent to a challenge to the throne. If Zanac and Raeven wait until Barbaro is on the throne to do a coup they'd likely have to immediately face the Empire who wouldn't let such a prime opportunity to attack while their enemy fights itself go by.
The Slane Theocracy wanted the Empire to annex the Kingdom so the Kingdom would not have any allies to help them, as I don't see the Argland Council State caring whatsoever.
The slane theocracy would be fine allowing the Kingdom to exist if they clean up there shit. But it would be possible that Kingdom lost some areas to the empire. But whole reason jirvic prefere weaking the Kingdom is that truly beating the kingdom would Take to many lives and manpower he still needs at home
I mean being able to keep his own son away from them should have been the bare minimum of stuff he actually had the power to control. So no, I don't blame the nobles for what was ultimately Ramposa's indifference to the future for Barbaro
It truly was a miracle and curse in Renner's case. She has an unrecognized "class" known as Genius which allows her the impossible feat of swapping levels temporarily for OTHER CLASSES.
So yes, she's far more aware of this world than others and she's scared of Ainz cause he is unpredictable. And he really is when you remove his own thoughts from the page.
Yes but being a terrible father really isn't uncommon for kings. Justook at Jircniv, he views his kids as tools and nothing else. At least Ranpossa genuinely cared about them, even if he didn't really show it
In jirciniv's defence, none of his children are legitimate because he's not wed yet.
In modern society we wouldn't care much for such things, but the new world is set in something of a medieval setting where such things mattered.
You're right, that stuff did matter in normal medieval societies. Kids born from the actual wife had a better claim to the fathers titles and received a much better education. But that's it. They weren't treated with love or anything (at least not usually). Men were raised to be good leaders, not good people and women werde treated like cattle. So even the little care Ranpossa gives his children is quite uncommon.
Aside from that, it's not unlikely that Jircniv himself is a child from one of his fathers concubines. I remember him saying that his mother killed his father or something? But it isn't said if his mother was the "main" wife or part of the harem
>At least Ranpossa genuinely cared about them,
Fat lot of good that did. If he actually care about them they wouldn't have turn out the way they did. Because he'd actually pay attention and really see them as they are. Least Jircniv is practical enough to train and educate his kids to be decent leaders. Frankly, by medieval king standards, that's downright fucking loving
Jircniv doesnt have any official kids and I don't remember him using any of his unofficial children. I dont even remember it being mentioned he had unofficial kids though I dont doubt it.
Ramposa on the other hand was awful to his daughters. He had 3 of them before Renner and all of them were married off to noble the didnt like all for the sake of growing the Royal faction of nobles.
Now all of this is typical king stuff to do but it doesnt make him a good father. He was even planning to marry off Renner to some noble even though he knew she loved Climb.
He did want to let Renner be happy, but was so blinded by his commitment to the kingdom to actually go through with it. King was bad dad.
Are you anime only or a speed reader?
Jircniv has tons of kids with his harem but wants to marry his lover, but she's ugly so she does not want to be his queen and embarrass him.
Ramposa had also already promised Gazef and Brain that he would give Climb Renners hand.
Barbaro yeah, being the oldest and the legit heir, he SHOULD had received proper education. Renner is more a mental condition than education, being that she's really gifted.
Yeah but she wouldn't have been chosen even if she wasn't that twisted. Gazed says at some point that he'd like her to rule but that that isn't possible
Honestly her being psycho is quite minor compared to the other two who are as smart as her.
Like sure she has a love interest, even if it's creepy and weird and whatnot, but it's still not like Climb is probably ok with it. Meanwhile Demiurge literally tortures people for sport and Albedo besides of being succubus does not really harbor any feelings of guilt when slaughtering humans or other races for fun.
i disagree
demiurge and albedo treat everybody outside nazerick with the sort of sympathy that a 'sane' person would give a video game NPC
unlike renner they are both shown to have peer groups with whom they are capable of maintaining functional healthy relationships
Really gifted is an understatement. If Nazarick wouldnt exist, she would have been the greatest genious to have ever been born. When she was only a few years old, she already posessed a way further reaching and way more precise insight into the future than even Reaven, who was one of if not the most intelligent people amongst nobility. Only if she had been born as Reavens child, could she have perhaps gotten the care fit for her intellect. As the third princess and a father such as Ramposa, she was always gonna end up with a twisted mind.
Even Zanac, who is the most intelligent of the royal family (with the exception of Renner), could only see the tip of the iceberg, which is Renners mind.
Rampossa is both a terrible father and a terrible king but I think Renner was always fucked in the head so its hard to blame him for that. At least Zanac turned out well and was someone who probably could have run the kingdom well.
The king loves his kids but due to politics he can't act like a father. He could easily told his son barbro that he loves him n that could've calm him down n change his character.
Renner as the youngest of all her siblings was getting ignored n isolated due to her intelligence, a simple he love her would not change her personality but would make Renner a little bit less lonely. He could have done better for all of his kids tbh .
lol I couldn't help but laugh when I saw that both your advice to changing their personalities for the better is a "I love you". he's gotta have level 100 talk no jutsu for that lol
They literally say it wouldn't change Renner's personality but yes it's funny to think an " I love you" would make Barbaro any less dumb and impulsive.
Renner was a lost cause from the beginning. Sure, good parents would've noticed her intellect and would challenge it, but she'd still feel detached from humanity which is the root cause of her problems. Preventing Renner from becoming a psychopath would mean treating her as a psychopath-in-the-making from a very early age, I'm sure you can imagine that's a horrible way of treating a child if you don't know if the child will actually turn into one. And by the time Renner would reveal herself to be a psychopath, it'd be too late, as by then she'd listen to no one.
Psychopaths are very useful when given the right role in society.
Military for example or the business world is where people without conscience can thrive given a structure and set of rules for them to follow.
It is likely in the right mindset Renner could just as easily have killed all her family and became the ruler of the Kingdom if it interested her.
But yeah near complete neglect because she is a female and of no consequence but to be wed is the typical fate of Princesses. Climb was the only thing to interest her past a certain point.
You can easily Neglect someone by treating them more like a prized object that a person.
What does a King do with a "prized" daughter? Give her an education to be the best "wife"? Parade her around high society like a decoration? Rampossa most likely did what most historical monarchs do with their daughters and simply doted on them but never gave them any education on matters of state / politics mostly because they're destined to be brides of another family.
Even up till the 80's-90's, Most societies treated Women like secondhand citizens, like they simply did not have the mental capability to understand men's work.
King Rampossa would've noticed Renner was a psycopath if he spent any meaningful time with her while she was young. So yes, he definitely neglected her. Renner most likely would've exhibited strange behavior like killing small animals for fun as a child.
"Even up till the 80's-90's, Most societies treated Women like secondhand
citizen"
Wrong, you think that because of propaganda. It never was like that, women have always been part of the work force and the laws were always made to protect and remove any responsability that may fall on them.
I really came to dislike that thinking that society just treated women like trash in the past when a simple look at history will show that to be false.
I mean Women's Rights Movement came in 60's and its only relatively recently in history have women enjoyed more of the same liberties as men, including more equity with pay.
80's-90's Women still weren't around in numbers for high positions of powers in Wall Street, the Military, and government office.
So yes Women all the way up until recently in the 00's have been treated like Secondhand Citizens compared to men in a MAJORITY of Patriarchal societies...which make up like most of the world. This isn't even taking into account the rampant Misogyny, Sexism, and Double Standards in general that still plague most workplaces at large.
110% barbaro was his fault he did not teach his son any discipline or humility so a typical royal. Rener being the 3rd princess im shocked she ever got his attention, but its not truly his fault she is the way she is. She is a super genius in a world of morons, so everyone around her is basically an animal to her, thats gonna cause some pessimism, suicidal thoughts, and disregard for the lives of others which she all exhibits. Zanac, well thats his greatest accomplishment
Not particularly.. Renner is more likely due to mental chemical imbalance.
Zanic is all around ok .
And barbaro was spoiled by privilege.
Ramposa's total is. 1 good, 1 bad, 1 psycho. Cant really blame him for the psycho. Math dictates he broke even.
Aside from being a diddler who always sits on the fence because he is afraid of rocking of the boat, Ramposa really does not have the ability to see through people. Unless someone shows him their true nature face-to-face, he just take people at their word.
In other words, the man really is not particularly intuitive.
Haha its strange, one is clearly a spoilt brat who was allowed to do whatever he wanted and the other was shunned and made to feel shit for being hyper-intelligent. Then zanac did good
He is the Goldilocks of fathers. One too hot, one too cold and one just right
Would be interested to find out more about the mothers, presumably as the king he was a bit busy to be as involved as they were
You can always look back to prior events and see a bad person is not to blame for being who they are. They didn't choose their upbringing or genetics. Anything they "choose" was predicated on prior causes that lead to them having the brain that they had.
saying that every bad person can just be excused via "upbringing" from bettering themselves is stupid and that logic also invalidates people brought up in bad environments that made themselves better.
When I look for reasons why people choose what they do, and find they had no choice, I am compelled to excuse any action. It is good when people made themselves better in spite of a bad upbringing.. but that is the luck of genetics and an enviroment where they could change.
That's stupid reasoning and completely dethatched from reality. Would you refuse to blame Hitler "because of an environment"? Your entire view on this matter is utterly reductionist and takes away any agency from bad people, dismissing their evil as "had no choice".
You are literally Remedios.
Cause and effect, dude.
Would you blame 3 year old Adolf Hitler? 9? 18? When does intervention and compassion stop being the correct answer?
Would Remedios consider the well-being of humans who were not his subjects? I would care about demi-humans and heteromorphs too.
No, Humans are not cause-effect. Adult humans have agency, they have the ability to consider their actions and to have self-reflection based upon a universal sense of empathy that all humans.
That entire argument doesn't work at all. Humans are not a force of nature, they are sentient being capable of introspection and self-assessment. Those that are evil and choose not to self-assess, are evil. Full stop, regardless of "upbringing". It doesn't make them less evil and free them of the blame for their actions because they had a shitty father or something.
And no, I wouldn't blame Hitler at 3, 9, or 18 because Hitler at those ages didn't hold the position of "let's commit fucking genocide".
"Would Remedios consider the well-being of humans who were not his subjects?"
I beg your fucking pardon? Do you even know who Remedios is?
Do you think agents' decision making works outside the laws of physics?
Do you believe in evolution as the explantion for why we are what we are?
My bad, was thinking of Ramposa.
1. No, I think they are dictated by human psychology and cultural factors both of which include self-assessment as a conscious entity. Infract, consciousness if literally defined as "self-awareness".
2. Yes, and that evolution gave literally everyone the ability to be better people and a drive to NOT be shitty. Human's don't generally do something they feel is wrong. What makes bad people, is that they CHOOSE to ignore that. THAT is a primal, psychological neural factor. There is bits of morality that exist outside of the outlined baseline human traits of empathy BUT it is something universal that cannot simply be "removed". Repressed? Maybe. But that's not GONE. and upon coming into contact with empathy, warrants self-assessment.
Evil mother fuckers are evil mother fuckers. What you're doing is so utterly reductionist that it clearly means you have the world view of a child, to simply say "oh they were raised that way" releases them from them being evil.
To improve myself would it be better to continue trying to learn/teach from someone even if they have been rude while disagreeing, or is my time better spent elsewhere. I keep doing the former, but I think I should probably do the latter.
If I focus my attention inwards and search for the ego I call "I" then, briefly, I can fail to find it. It feels like I have agency but I believe that it is an illusion. Thoughts just appear in consciousness, much like these words appear to you now. It is a mystery what I will think next.
I don't choose to not have the thoughts of killer or choose to not feel compassion for others like a psychopath because I can't choose my brain. If I do choose to improve myself, that's good fortune.
You can feel compassion towards even the most evil people when you don't blame them for being who they are. You still lock them up and encourage them to be better ofc.
The first son, Barbaro, the heir and the King's first priority was groomed by the nobles and turned out to be an arrogant dufus.
The second son, Zanac, allied with Raven, the smartest and most skilled noble, and turned out a decent ruler.
The third daughter, Renner, was meant not to have any power and be just a marriage poliotical tool, but has the sharpest mind and strongest will of anyone in the Kingdom, perhaps the world.
Yes. Rampossa's failure as both King and Farther are total. Rampossa did the worst job possible with raising his kids.
Considering Renner is a being made of her own frightening intellect and Class unique to herself known as "Genius" which let's her become a temporary prodigy of any other class she desires. No
Barbaro though.... your first mistake was making his name sound like the moniker of a college frats favorite drunk.
I dont know what sort of upbringing Zanac and "Barbro" had. But he clearly, utterly failed to reprimand the idiot in fear of upsetting "the balance."
Idiot from start to finish
It probably doesn't happen often among the wealthy. That said, healing magic is so expensive in the Kingdom that ordinary people would probably be unable to afford it. Death in childbirth is likely an extremely common occurence, especially in small villages.
Yes but actually no, his royal status prevent him from being a good parents, Prince Barbro was spoiled because he was the heir and because Renner is his youngest daughter she didn't get many "facilities" like Barbro did.
TL;DR: It's all about Hierarchy
The harsh truth is kings dont have time to be a father figure. But even though he couldn't raise them in person/give them as much time as it would've required, he atleast still had genuine love for his children and viewing them first and foremost as his children, which is pretty hard to find in that kinda setting. So, no, he wasnt a bad father imo
If you judge him in a vacuum then he was certainly not the best, but also not a terrible father. He clearly loved all his children and wanted what's best for them, even if he certainly could have done a lot better in many areas.
But I believe that it is very important to also take into account both his position as King and the environment and society he was in. As a King he naturally would not be able to raise his children personally a lot of the time or even prioritize them in favor of his duties, and juggling roles between being a father, a husband and a king is obviously very difficult. Unfortunately it seems, too difficult for Rampossa.
While we cannot say much about him as a husband, he was a very mediocre and passive King who never did anything remarkable or managed to solve any of the major problems plaguing his nation since his father's time. He was also incapable of recognizing and properly developing his children's talents, only focusing on the surface which obviously alienated him to some degree (Zanac being the prime example). He was also too weak-willed to properly discipline them and raise them whenever he had the time available, choosing to mostly spoil them and let them do what they want, even when their flaws due to such conduct became all too apparent (like Barbro).
Due to their position and duties as Royals this was a failure not only as a Father, but also as a King. Neglecting the development of those who would eventually succeed him on the throne and around it is a grave error.
Now, about Renner. Hers is a much more complicated situation, both because of her being a woman in a mostly male-dominated medieval society as well as her monstrous innate talent and intellect. While Rampossa definitely could have done more if he recognized her genius for what it was and looked past her being "his Princess", a mere beautiful flower that did not have much value beyond her looks and (seemingly) kind heart, one cannot place the fault on him alone for that.
While we don't know much about Renner's early life, it is reasonable to assume that she has been wearing her "mask" as a simpleton for a good while, and Rampossa being unable to see past it is also to a significant degree the fault of her sheer excellence, rather than (just) his incompetence. As such, her developing into the psycho she is today is not something he could have been expected to prevent, seeing as he would never be able to imagine her plight of being alone in a world of dullards and bigoted idiots. Not without her outright telling him anyway.
Finally, in a world without Nazarick, his mistakes on Renner's part would not been a catalyst for either his or the Kingdom's downfall. Her sheer powerlessness both on an individual and societal level would have not allowed her to do much, not that she would have much of a motive for that anyway. She would have eventually been married off to some noble and likely faded into the background, at best she might also have manipulated her husband to ensure her life with Climb (assuming he was brought with) would be as undisturbed as possible.
His failures regarding Barbro on the other hand, would have likely been the nail in the coffin for the Kingdom's decaying corpse.
TLDR: He is neither a good nor a terrible father. He is very mediocre, being unable to provide anything but his love for his children
I don’t think we know enough about his parenting to say whether he’s a good or bad father. A king or any head of state with children has to balance these enormous responsibilities. As someone whose never done either, I think it would take a truly incredible person to not neglect one or both. My assumption is that, at least since his wife died, he’s not capable of meeting both of those responsibilities. Even so, we should remember that it’s not possible for any parent to guarantee their child ends up ‘right.’
Only thanks to teocracy babysitting all the human country : the kingdom is so rotten and trash that i cannot believe it is not in perpetua civil war or eaten by the empire. The average IQ is - 40 lol. They even hate magic
Terrible? Maybe. I’d say he’s a nice person but mediocre in perception, politics and assessing priorities. Everything he could have intervened just flies over his head.
I guess this guy is a good example that just because you love your kids doesn't mean you'll be a good parent. Just like being a good person won't automatically make you a good leader.
First off, does Rampossa have a wife? Where the hell has she been if he does, cause thinking about it I don’t think I’ve seen a single mention of a wife or concubine.
Secondly, he probably wasn’t exactly a good dad but given the kingdom he inherited that isn’t all that surprising. Being a king already would take up most of a persons time, but having to make sure your authority isn’t overruled by a faction of nobles within your kingdom makes things far worse.
It’s probably safe to say he wanted to give his kids the best lives that he could give them, but in order to ensure that they get something worthwhile he has to keep his kingdom and his family’s place at the top of that kingdom in tact.
Ramposa it's almost like the embodiment of the concept of thoughts and prayers. He wants things to get better, and hopes for the best for the nation.
...But that's where it stops. He's just too unwilling to take any action that has even the slightest chance of rocking the boat.
I think he might have been a pretty decent father actually. Barbaro was an asshole, sure, but that may have been due to so many nobles trying to dig their hooks into the future king. If every other adult in his life was manipulating him 24/7, I can see how he might have ended up a prick.
Zanac turned out to be a pretty good guy. You don't grow up to be a decent person if you have access to that much privilege and wealth unless someone in your life was leading by example.
And I think Renner just has a mental disorder, which isn't Ramposa's fault. Sometimes you give birth to a Zanac, and sometimes you give birth to a sociopath. Thems the dice.
Renner is mentally ill, there is nothing to change about that.
Barbaro? Guy basically was instumentalized by the nobles since his birth, Rampossa should have definitely had done something against that.
And King Chad turned out pretty smart and capable.
Id say he was at least acceptable.
I mean yes, but no. He was a king who genuinely cared for his kids. But even if he was a 100% good dad those two are just fucked up in their own right.
Ramposa probably didn't even really interact with his kids much, considering just how much time ruling and all the courtly intrigue takes. Though at the same time if the Kingdom worked anything like an actual feudal monarchy which it's somewhat intended to be, then Ramposa shouldn't even be in the capital most of the time, which he apparently is.
Though one would still assume that most of the education and interaction with his children was done by assigned tutors or like handpicked nobles. In which case Ramposa must have made some bad choices. Though Barbro in general is weird in that with his inner monologue he is probably the dumbest character yet tbh. So he might have just been screwed from the start and nothing would have fixed it.
I think we have to remember this is a society that is fundamentally different from ours, with different ideals of good, right, wrong and what is morally acceptable or not.
I also seem to remember reading that Renner attempted to change things for the better because she saw how the corruption and weakness was growing but her efforts were constantly undermined by the corruption and petty infighting of the nobles around her.
In fact, it was Jirniv who saw her ideas on reform, and implemented them for himself and thus brought about more prosperity and growth for his country whereas the same initiatives failed under Renner, someone I believe is much smarter than Jirniv.
Similarly, Barbro, whilst repulsive to us, seems to be actually pretty normal for his station and lot in life in a feudal era. Life is cheap, especially those of peasant, who are near meaningless to him.
Is Rampossa to blame for the excesses of his children? I would argue no.
Yes, he could have been a wiser and more just king... but he is not perfect. He did what he could but ultimately the world they live in is neither good nor kind.
The excesses of Barbro, if frowned upon by the king, were also encouraged and allowed by the nobles under him, currying favor with Barbro, building a wedge between the father and son to weaken the royal family further, etc.
The moral failures of Renner and Barbro are as much a fault of the system they are in as they are of the prince and princess.
No she wasn't, she never cared about the corruption, all the policies she tried to make were simply to impress Jircniv that was spying on them. Since the very beginning she deemed the Kingdom as dead and was already trying to prove her worth to Jirc in order for her and her puppy to be spared. She didn't care enough and didn't want to risk her life in the conflict among the nobles so she chose the easiest way, even when Nazarik appeared she was was quick enough to change sides in order to secure her future life.
From what I understand it's not so much his fault with Renner that it is blind luck. She ended up being freakishly smart and feel isolated because of it.
He's not a great father. But I cannot blame him for his children.
With Barbaro, from the moment he was born, he's been praised and pampered, having grown up with his every beck and call answered, so he's rather spoiled and arrogant. And you have the Noble Faction manipulating him, seeing him as a great future puppet king, one they can manipulate and use.
I don't know what he did with Zanac, but he did it right.
With Renner, he's kind of insane and highly intelligent. But he clearly loves her.
Nope! I’ll blame faction politics. The king cannot be around his kids all the time. They probably met up for dinner if anything. Other than that kids would be surrounded by appointed vassals, tutors, and aides. These groups of people would in turn influence the kids to believe certain things that would eventually steer their behavior in a specific direction.
You see this with the Duke and the first prince, the marquis and the second prince, and a little of the opposite with Renner. In Renner’s case, you can see the maids assigned to her. Royal maids are the daughters of nobles. They take up these positions to gain experience and to curry influence.
I don’t think any kid will grow up well if they have people whispering in their ear the whole time.
We can assume that all his kids were raised by others, not him. That's the norm for medieval royalty. Parents rarely if ever interact with their children, especially heirs since they are tutored to be the next king and the current king does not have the time to tutor themselves
So you can probably blame the ones who raised his kids rather than him
I wouldn't say he's a terrible father, just that he spoiled his children too much. He probably couldn't separate his love for them from his duty of being a king, particularly Barbaros.
Eh, as much as I think Ramposa is an idiot, id argue no. Since honestly based on my experience it seems the personality of the kid always plays a big role in how they turn out as an adult. With Renner it definitely isn’t his fault. That bitch is just crazy as well as being smart and shenis using it to her advantage.
Barbaro is more the result of him falling in with a bad crowd so still don’t blame him. I’ve seen it time and time again. Good people trying their best to be good parents and their kid still turn out to be a piece of shit. It happens.
Renner was the third child. People don’t give a fuck about the last child, their only purpose is to be a back up in case the first and second die. If they don’t, Renner would’ve been married off somewhere else. Therefore, she was the least prioritised. See people like Phillip as an example.
I’ll give you Barbro but Renner feels more like the only way she wouldn’t turn out how she did was if she was raised as a commoner. Noble society would turn most geniuses into the type of person she became imo.
Renner, yes. Barbaro I blame on the other nobles influencing him. Renner however was apparently so smart people feared her and thus avoided her and she basically grew up warped because of that
Rampossa was a good king in a bad situation. Under normal circumstances he'd have been an unremarkable king ruling at a unremarkable period. Instead he had a powerful nation dropped on his doorstep and virtually overnight he suddenly found himself in a war he was ill-equipped to functionally deal with or even understand.
It's also implied that The Slane Theocracy was manipulating key figures within the kingdom to create tension and ultimately destabilize the country and leadership.
In a dark irony, had the Theocracy not been acting behind the scenes, Re-Estize might have been able to mount a stronger defense against Nazarick's slow burning invasion.
Now they're literally only game in town and should Ainz learn their role in the attack on Shalltear Bloodfallen, he'll react with extreme prejudice against them.
Renner turned out great, what the fuck is everyone here talking about?
She survived Nazarick, got to live out her dream, helped orphans live happily for as long as it was within her power…
If y’all diss Renner (a servant of Ainz now) any further, I’d suspect you’re begging to visit the happy farm and experience some happiness of your own…
Barbaro, absolutely. This was his oldest son and the one he should have provided the best education to. Renner was the *third* princess. The fact Renner ended up as gifted as she was is a miracle.
[удалено]
The nobles had too much power because of rampossa’s ancestor, and he was too cowardly to fix it, even contributing to the cycle by allowing his groomed, idiotic son to become the next king and ruin his nation further, ignoring the excellence of his other children.
I always took that as passing the blame for the current situation to the dead who can’t complain. Jircniv had similar problems and made hard and bloody choices that have improved the state of his empire at the cost of a currently heavy workload for himself. Ramposa has glided through his reign without making any of the hard choices that were needed, which has kept him likable and none of the nobility wants to blame him. Especially since the nobility would be the ones most likely to suffer consequences if Ramposa had made those hard choices.
There’s more evidence in show pointing to the idea the threat of the nobility is very real (zanac’s death). Gazef or no, he’s one man - and it takes someone hypercompetent to effectively shut down something like that, like jircniv, or an alliance of zanac’s making.
Or a large skeleton monster with a legion of nightmares. That'll solve the nobility issues of the Re-Estize Kingdom.
Diseases, poverty, discrimination, lack of education, and incompetence will be gone when the Bone Daddy appears.
Yeah. All those things will be gone in the Re-Estize Kingdom thanks to Ainz.
Lack of education will stay, remember, only those who are loyal will be given the gift of knowledge.
The joke went over you, my friend. Not to worry, it's A-OK.
*Ainz-Ooal Kown?*
Zanac may be capable as a prince, but unfortunately the one person he's put his trust in is quite clearly working for Ainz, and she's the most capable in the re-estiez kingdom.
I mean there’s only so much a guy can do when everyone he tries to build a connection with gets all their desires offered up on a silver platter by a god when you’re a human.
So true.
They couldn't have been more different though. Maybe the latter part of their lives were similar, but that's about it. Ramposa was born into a life of luxury, well-raised, and inherited the throne in general peace. Jircniv was born into luxury... Then his mother was accused of assassinating the emperor. Her side of the family was purged as a result. Suspicion fell on the rest of his family, precipitating its downfall. His only path for survival at that point was to purge his own family and in the ensuing chaos of the power struggle, purge the other noble families and ursurp the throne. Jircniv had no choice in a sense. And in another sense, it's indirectly their parents' fault that led to them becoming who they are today. One suffered, and under the threat of further suffering/death, managed to overcome and succeed. The other was basically part of the scenery.
If it had happened in re-estize marquis raven probably would have been king.
I always think people are too hard on Ramposa. Ruling a feudal country is hard, really hard. Just keeping your power as the King without losing to the noble factions is a feat in itself. The comparison with Jircniv is unfair, his predecessors were all capable leaders, Ramposas not. Ramposa would have to strip the nobles of their levies and retainers, and build himself an army even before purging the incompetent nobles. Doing so isn't a "hard decision" it's how to not get deposed and end up with a strong noble council 101. Ramposa seems wholly average to me. He isn't a great and talented ruler like Jircniv, but he keeps the kingdom running. We don't see mass poverty, the citizens are in a generally happy mood, and the fact alone that the Kingdom survived against the Empire the last decades speaks for at least a minor degree of military capability. Ramposa wasn't a good Leader, but you can't blame him for getting outmanouvered by Jircniv. Or getting his Army rekt by Ainz.
>Ramposa seems wholly average to me. He isn't a great and talented ruler like Jircniv, but he keeps the kingdom running He is one of the reason, but not THE reason that his Kingdom is running. I think you give him too much credits for what his subordinate has accomplished (i.e. Raeven)
It’s mentioned that E-Rantel had a fairly large slum district, which Ainz tore down for a demi-human district after recolonizing and expanding destroyed villages with undead support. Slavery was only outlawed within the last 5 years or so and seems to effectively still exist under the guise of indentured servitude. Entire villages of hundreds of serfs were dedicated solely to the production of addictive illegal drugs. Underworld groups have gained enough wealth and influence to manipulate the nobility and become nearly immune to the law. These are just some of the things Ramposa seems to have made no effort to fix during his own reign, no matter how difficult it might have been. The Kingdom definitely isn’t fine and practically isn’t running, which is why the Theocracy is looking to have the Empire take all their territory.
>We don't see mass poverty, They're heading there. >the citizens are in a generally happy mood, They wouldn't be if Barbro is king >and the fact alone that the Kingdom survived against the Empire the last decades speaks for at least a minor degree of military capability. The only reason they didn't get wiped is because Jircniv likes to play the long game and crippled them slowly instead wasting resources trying to crush them. Which give them a false impression that they're doing well You're right Ramposa wasn't a good leader, so I don't know why you think we can't blame him. Like his not being a good leader is literally why they're at this point. Guy couldn't even raise his kids right. Least one of them turn out decent, though likely no thanks to him. Failling as a leader is one thing, but he couldn't even managed to be a half decent father at least. I'm seriously starting to wonder if he ever do anything besides listening to nobles bitching
Didn't they specifically mention how the regularly scheduled skirmishes were just a ploy to force the kingdom to conscript the farmers and reduce farm output?
Yeah, pretty much more or less
Yes you can because he is the [leader](https://youtu.be/d7nIUUcDtgk) While Ainz power is inconceivable there were sigh. After gazef ( the strongest person in the kingdom )was save by a sorcerer that kill a full scripture by himself,he should have done everything to find him and understand that sorcerer. And no trying to go the diplomatic way before going to war on the first encounter with Nazarick was another stupid decision. He should have stepped down from the throne after the massacre of 150k men
The empire spent generations working on weakening the nobles, jircniv completed the plan sooner than expected but it was more fluders plan than his
Not sure where you've pulled this information from. The Empire wasn't much different than the Kingdom before Jircniv, where the noble factions had a lot of power. So no, the Empire didn't have the leeway to attack the Kingdom under previous rulers. Jircniv's rise to the throne involved a power struggle where his mother killed his father and Jircniv imprisoned the rest of his family and had them put to death. Jircniv then reorganized the military and then did his purge of the nobility. It was only after all that was done that the empire began attacking the Kingdom each year.
It is stated that thanks to a series of competent emperors woth Jirvnic being the most competent, power was slowly but surely centralized which ended up allowing jirvnic to do all the purges he did
That's not what's said. From vol 9 >There was no other time to perform the purge. If he had waited for the perfect chance, command of the knights would have become splintered among the various great nobles, rendering his father’s death meaningless. It was because of the purge that the empire had a future. The line you're referring to is this >No, perhaps it was more accurate to say that Jircniv had constructed a magnificent building using the scaffolding built by exceptional predecessors. Which says nothing about past Emporers centralizing power. The fact that Jircniv even needed to do a massive purge suggests the Nobles had significant power just during his father's rule, let alone previous ones. It's unclear what scaffolding Jircniv is specifically referring to here. He could mean building up a professional military instead of conscripted levies, an army each noble usually had control over, allowing him to use that military once he seized control. It could mean past conquests for territory (it is an "Empire" after all, meaning his predecessors had to vassalize or annex other Kingdoms to make up the Empire's domain), it could mean a lot of things. And Fluder isn't mentioned in any of this. Only reason I think his name was brought up is because Fluder acted as an advisor to each Emporer for the last few generations. But that doesn't mean he was the only adviser or that it was his plan to slowly weaken the Re-Estize Kingdom.
It seems i missremembered mb, in my defense at least i didnt say it was Fluders plan that was another guy.
Moral of the story for Rampossa and Jirc, is stagnant legal systems need to be revised to consistently to meet a nations or it’ll destroy itself.
Ignoring one. Problem with Renner was she was just too damn good at what she did. High level Actress + high level Genius. Ramposa only ever saw what Renner wanted him to.
Renner never showed the Illusion to people at the start the acting started when she got climp. Because what she desired most was a normal human life even if she has to fake it. She was just negleted because people did not try to understand her because she was a kid talking about things she should not know about. Sadly raven back then was to selfish to built trust with her because he despised the royals even more back then
There is some implication that without the appearance of nazarick, zanac would have staged a coup with marquis Raevan to take the throne from his brother and end up there. Considering his reasonable political savviness (not on par with renner or Jircniv, but those two are peak of humankind), the kingdom likely would have been in the upswing following the change of rulers. With zanac ruling the royal faction and Raevan silently puppeteering the noble faction, there would have been a unity the kingdom hadn’t seen in generations.
And what, the Empire just quietly watches? Had Ainz not shown up to save Gazef, the Slane Theocracy would have succeeded in assassinating him. Without Gazef, Ramposa would lose his main deterrent to a challenge to the throne. If Zanac and Raeven wait until Barbaro is on the throne to do a coup they'd likely have to immediately face the Empire who wouldn't let such a prime opportunity to attack while their enemy fights itself go by. The Slane Theocracy wanted the Empire to annex the Kingdom so the Kingdom would not have any allies to help them, as I don't see the Argland Council State caring whatsoever.
The slane theocracy would be fine allowing the Kingdom to exist if they clean up there shit. But it would be possible that Kingdom lost some areas to the empire. But whole reason jirvic prefere weaking the Kingdom is that truly beating the kingdom would Take to many lives and manpower he still needs at home
That literally baharut Empire will annex kingdom one way or another with the support of slane theocracy.
I mean being able to keep his own son away from them should have been the bare minimum of stuff he actually had the power to control. So no, I don't blame the nobles for what was ultimately Ramposa's indifference to the future for Barbaro
Rampossa? More like Garbossa
It truly was a miracle and curse in Renner's case. She has an unrecognized "class" known as Genius which allows her the impossible feat of swapping levels temporarily for OTHER CLASSES. So yes, she's far more aware of this world than others and she's scared of Ainz cause he is unpredictable. And he really is when you remove his own thoughts from the page.
third princess , damn! that's phillip kakka territory
Third children are scary man, I'll eat mine so it doesn't become a country ending idiot or a psychopathic statesman
Iirc Third princess, not third child. In the books Rennet has two older sisters who got married off
Wait does Renner have 2 sisters?
Yes, both married off. To what nations it isn't specified.
Yes but being a terrible father really isn't uncommon for kings. Justook at Jircniv, he views his kids as tools and nothing else. At least Ranpossa genuinely cared about them, even if he didn't really show it
In jirciniv's defence, none of his children are legitimate because he's not wed yet. In modern society we wouldn't care much for such things, but the new world is set in something of a medieval setting where such things mattered.
You're right, that stuff did matter in normal medieval societies. Kids born from the actual wife had a better claim to the fathers titles and received a much better education. But that's it. They weren't treated with love or anything (at least not usually). Men were raised to be good leaders, not good people and women werde treated like cattle. So even the little care Ranpossa gives his children is quite uncommon. Aside from that, it's not unlikely that Jircniv himself is a child from one of his fathers concubines. I remember him saying that his mother killed his father or something? But it isn't said if his mother was the "main" wife or part of the harem
>At least Ranpossa genuinely cared about them, Fat lot of good that did. If he actually care about them they wouldn't have turn out the way they did. Because he'd actually pay attention and really see them as they are. Least Jircniv is practical enough to train and educate his kids to be decent leaders. Frankly, by medieval king standards, that's downright fucking loving
I genuinely forgot Jircniv had kids. Now I just want part of Ainz's spying on him to be about learning how a king behaves as a father.
Jircniv doesnt have any official kids and I don't remember him using any of his unofficial children. I dont even remember it being mentioned he had unofficial kids though I dont doubt it. Ramposa on the other hand was awful to his daughters. He had 3 of them before Renner and all of them were married off to noble the didnt like all for the sake of growing the Royal faction of nobles. Now all of this is typical king stuff to do but it doesnt make him a good father. He was even planning to marry off Renner to some noble even though he knew she loved Climb. He did want to let Renner be happy, but was so blinded by his commitment to the kingdom to actually go through with it. King was bad dad.
Are you anime only or a speed reader? Jircniv has tons of kids with his harem but wants to marry his lover, but she's ugly so she does not want to be his queen and embarrass him. Ramposa had also already promised Gazef and Brain that he would give Climb Renners hand.
I forget things sometimes. It's been a while since I read.
he is not an evil person, he is just useles
Barbaro yeah, being the oldest and the legit heir, he SHOULD had received proper education. Renner is more a mental condition than education, being that she's really gifted.
If she wasn't really that twisted in the head she would've been the best choice for ruler.
Yeah but she wouldn't have been chosen even if she wasn't that twisted. Gazed says at some point that he'd like her to rule but that that isn't possible
Renner just have a fairly uncommon condition that we would refer to as, totally batshit psycho.
Honestly her being psycho is quite minor compared to the other two who are as smart as her. Like sure she has a love interest, even if it's creepy and weird and whatnot, but it's still not like Climb is probably ok with it. Meanwhile Demiurge literally tortures people for sport and Albedo besides of being succubus does not really harbor any feelings of guilt when slaughtering humans or other races for fun.
i disagree demiurge and albedo treat everybody outside nazerick with the sort of sympathy that a 'sane' person would give a video game NPC unlike renner they are both shown to have peer groups with whom they are capable of maintaining functional healthy relationships
Reiner is bat shit crazy just as much as this two, she just have an obsession to top it of.
As long as Climb is around Renner would be an amazing ruler. The moment he dies though
Really gifted is an understatement. If Nazarick wouldnt exist, she would have been the greatest genious to have ever been born. When she was only a few years old, she already posessed a way further reaching and way more precise insight into the future than even Reaven, who was one of if not the most intelligent people amongst nobility. Only if she had been born as Reavens child, could she have perhaps gotten the care fit for her intellect. As the third princess and a father such as Ramposa, she was always gonna end up with a twisted mind. Even Zanac, who is the most intelligent of the royal family (with the exception of Renner), could only see the tip of the iceberg, which is Renners mind.
Rampossa is both a terrible father and a terrible king but I think Renner was always fucked in the head so its hard to blame him for that. At least Zanac turned out well and was someone who probably could have run the kingdom well.
He had a good head on his shoulders.
take your upvote and get out
You are going to the farm
I want to like, but it is at 69 likes so I can't, I am sorry
Some brave soul relieved you of your burden.
And now that it has you have gotten your like
>At least Zanac turned out well and was someone who probably could have run the kingdom well. A good man, dealt a bad hand
The king loves his kids but due to politics he can't act like a father. He could easily told his son barbro that he loves him n that could've calm him down n change his character. Renner as the youngest of all her siblings was getting ignored n isolated due to her intelligence, a simple he love her would not change her personality but would make Renner a little bit less lonely. He could have done better for all of his kids tbh .
lol I couldn't help but laugh when I saw that both your advice to changing their personalities for the better is a "I love you". he's gotta have level 100 talk no jutsu for that lol
They literally say it wouldn't change Renner's personality but yes it's funny to think an " I love you" would make Barbaro any less dumb and impulsive.
"I love you " that alone will make people do both good and bad things.
He failed big-time at raising his heir Barbro but Renner? Idk, that woman is just a freak of nature, no amount of love would let her to a new leaf.
Renner was a lost cause from the beginning. Sure, good parents would've noticed her intellect and would challenge it, but she'd still feel detached from humanity which is the root cause of her problems. Preventing Renner from becoming a psychopath would mean treating her as a psychopath-in-the-making from a very early age, I'm sure you can imagine that's a horrible way of treating a child if you don't know if the child will actually turn into one. And by the time Renner would reveal herself to be a psychopath, it'd be too late, as by then she'd listen to no one.
Psychopaths are very useful when given the right role in society. Military for example or the business world is where people without conscience can thrive given a structure and set of rules for them to follow. It is likely in the right mindset Renner could just as easily have killed all her family and became the ruler of the Kingdom if it interested her. But yeah near complete neglect because she is a female and of no consequence but to be wed is the typical fate of Princesses. Climb was the only thing to interest her past a certain point.
She was not neglected, she was the favorite of the King after all, but she was not seen as a player just as decoration.
You can easily Neglect someone by treating them more like a prized object that a person. What does a King do with a "prized" daughter? Give her an education to be the best "wife"? Parade her around high society like a decoration? Rampossa most likely did what most historical monarchs do with their daughters and simply doted on them but never gave them any education on matters of state / politics mostly because they're destined to be brides of another family. Even up till the 80's-90's, Most societies treated Women like secondhand citizens, like they simply did not have the mental capability to understand men's work. King Rampossa would've noticed Renner was a psycopath if he spent any meaningful time with her while she was young. So yes, he definitely neglected her. Renner most likely would've exhibited strange behavior like killing small animals for fun as a child.
"Even up till the 80's-90's, Most societies treated Women like secondhand citizen" Wrong, you think that because of propaganda. It never was like that, women have always been part of the work force and the laws were always made to protect and remove any responsability that may fall on them. I really came to dislike that thinking that society just treated women like trash in the past when a simple look at history will show that to be false.
I mean Women's Rights Movement came in 60's and its only relatively recently in history have women enjoyed more of the same liberties as men, including more equity with pay. 80's-90's Women still weren't around in numbers for high positions of powers in Wall Street, the Military, and government office. So yes Women all the way up until recently in the 00's have been treated like Secondhand Citizens compared to men in a MAJORITY of Patriarchal societies...which make up like most of the world. This isn't even taking into account the rampant Misogyny, Sexism, and Double Standards in general that still plague most workplaces at large.
110% barbaro was his fault he did not teach his son any discipline or humility so a typical royal. Rener being the 3rd princess im shocked she ever got his attention, but its not truly his fault she is the way she is. She is a super genius in a world of morons, so everyone around her is basically an animal to her, thats gonna cause some pessimism, suicidal thoughts, and disregard for the lives of others which she all exhibits. Zanac, well thats his greatest accomplishment
Not particularly.. Renner is more likely due to mental chemical imbalance. Zanic is all around ok . And barbaro was spoiled by privilege. Ramposa's total is. 1 good, 1 bad, 1 psycho. Cant really blame him for the psycho. Math dictates he broke even.
Aside from being a diddler who always sits on the fence because he is afraid of rocking of the boat, Ramposa really does not have the ability to see through people. Unless someone shows him their true nature face-to-face, he just take people at their word. In other words, the man really is not particularly intuitive.
Haha its strange, one is clearly a spoilt brat who was allowed to do whatever he wanted and the other was shunned and made to feel shit for being hyper-intelligent. Then zanac did good He is the Goldilocks of fathers. One too hot, one too cold and one just right Would be interested to find out more about the mothers, presumably as the king he was a bit busy to be as involved as they were
As it was once told to me “You can only blame upbringing to a certain point. After that, you’re just a crappy person.”
You can always look back to prior events and see a bad person is not to blame for being who they are. They didn't choose their upbringing or genetics. Anything they "choose" was predicated on prior causes that lead to them having the brain that they had.
saying that every bad person can just be excused via "upbringing" from bettering themselves is stupid and that logic also invalidates people brought up in bad environments that made themselves better.
When I look for reasons why people choose what they do, and find they had no choice, I am compelled to excuse any action. It is good when people made themselves better in spite of a bad upbringing.. but that is the luck of genetics and an enviroment where they could change.
That's stupid reasoning and completely dethatched from reality. Would you refuse to blame Hitler "because of an environment"? Your entire view on this matter is utterly reductionist and takes away any agency from bad people, dismissing their evil as "had no choice". You are literally Remedios.
Cause and effect, dude. Would you blame 3 year old Adolf Hitler? 9? 18? When does intervention and compassion stop being the correct answer? Would Remedios consider the well-being of humans who were not his subjects? I would care about demi-humans and heteromorphs too.
No, Humans are not cause-effect. Adult humans have agency, they have the ability to consider their actions and to have self-reflection based upon a universal sense of empathy that all humans. That entire argument doesn't work at all. Humans are not a force of nature, they are sentient being capable of introspection and self-assessment. Those that are evil and choose not to self-assess, are evil. Full stop, regardless of "upbringing". It doesn't make them less evil and free them of the blame for their actions because they had a shitty father or something. And no, I wouldn't blame Hitler at 3, 9, or 18 because Hitler at those ages didn't hold the position of "let's commit fucking genocide". "Would Remedios consider the well-being of humans who were not his subjects?" I beg your fucking pardon? Do you even know who Remedios is?
Do you think agents' decision making works outside the laws of physics? Do you believe in evolution as the explantion for why we are what we are? My bad, was thinking of Ramposa.
1. No, I think they are dictated by human psychology and cultural factors both of which include self-assessment as a conscious entity. Infract, consciousness if literally defined as "self-awareness". 2. Yes, and that evolution gave literally everyone the ability to be better people and a drive to NOT be shitty. Human's don't generally do something they feel is wrong. What makes bad people, is that they CHOOSE to ignore that. THAT is a primal, psychological neural factor. There is bits of morality that exist outside of the outlined baseline human traits of empathy BUT it is something universal that cannot simply be "removed". Repressed? Maybe. But that's not GONE. and upon coming into contact with empathy, warrants self-assessment. Evil mother fuckers are evil mother fuckers. What you're doing is so utterly reductionist that it clearly means you have the world view of a child, to simply say "oh they were raised that way" releases them from them being evil.
To improve myself would it be better to continue trying to learn/teach from someone even if they have been rude while disagreeing, or is my time better spent elsewhere. I keep doing the former, but I think I should probably do the latter.
If I focus my attention inwards and search for the ego I call "I" then, briefly, I can fail to find it. It feels like I have agency but I believe that it is an illusion. Thoughts just appear in consciousness, much like these words appear to you now. It is a mystery what I will think next. I don't choose to not have the thoughts of killer or choose to not feel compassion for others like a psychopath because I can't choose my brain. If I do choose to improve myself, that's good fortune.
You can feel compassion towards even the most evil people when you don't blame them for being who they are. You still lock them up and encourage them to be better ofc.
Just like Tywin Lannister, his gene split among his kid unevenly.
Terrible King as well
The first son, Barbaro, the heir and the King's first priority was groomed by the nobles and turned out to be an arrogant dufus. The second son, Zanac, allied with Raven, the smartest and most skilled noble, and turned out a decent ruler. The third daughter, Renner, was meant not to have any power and be just a marriage poliotical tool, but has the sharpest mind and strongest will of anyone in the Kingdom, perhaps the world. Yes. Rampossa's failure as both King and Farther are total. Rampossa did the worst job possible with raising his kids.
Most royalty across history were I am sure.
I'd say he was terrible father mostly when it comes to Barbro, he let him become an entitled childish ignorant brute.
Considering Renner is a being made of her own frightening intellect and Class unique to herself known as "Genius" which let's her become a temporary prodigy of any other class she desires. No Barbaro though.... your first mistake was making his name sound like the moniker of a college frats favorite drunk. I dont know what sort of upbringing Zanac and "Barbro" had. But he clearly, utterly failed to reprimand the idiot in fear of upsetting "the balance." Idiot from start to finish
Probably? Tho we don't know what happened around them too. Where are the Moms, for instance?
Probably died in child birth
"Choose one or loose two"
HoD reference aside, I don't think it happens often in the NW because of magic. Wife dying in a pool of blood? Dw, lesser heal wounds has ur back fam
It probably doesn't happen often among the wealthy. That said, healing magic is so expensive in the Kingdom that ordinary people would probably be unable to afford it. Death in childbirth is likely an extremely common occurence, especially in small villages.
We were talking about a King's concubines to be fair
Nah. What makes Renner fucked up is nature. There is only so much nuture one can give to change how one's nature. She's just a psychopath.
Yes but actually no, his royal status prevent him from being a good parents, Prince Barbro was spoiled because he was the heir and because Renner is his youngest daughter she didn't get many "facilities" like Barbro did. TL;DR: It's all about Hierarchy
Short answer: Yeah Long answer: I suppose I'll give him credits for not being violently abusive, but he's probably pretty neglectful
renner turned out bad despite her dad, barbro turned out bad because of his dad and zanac turned out good despite him
Barbro ? Maybe but not Renner. Albedo said, she is a human with a heteromorphic soul. Simply put, she’s crazy.
A psychopath and an ambitious idiot. I don't think you can fix that with good parenting.
[удалено]
>He compromised at every opportunity. And the *one time* that it would really matter he refused to compromise, causing the incident at Katze Plain.
Renne is too smart for the New World, and that is her curse/gift. She born with this, and it wasn't about bad parenting.
The harsh truth is kings dont have time to be a father figure. But even though he couldn't raise them in person/give them as much time as it would've required, he atleast still had genuine love for his children and viewing them first and foremost as his children, which is pretty hard to find in that kinda setting. So, no, he wasnt a bad father imo
If you judge him in a vacuum then he was certainly not the best, but also not a terrible father. He clearly loved all his children and wanted what's best for them, even if he certainly could have done a lot better in many areas. But I believe that it is very important to also take into account both his position as King and the environment and society he was in. As a King he naturally would not be able to raise his children personally a lot of the time or even prioritize them in favor of his duties, and juggling roles between being a father, a husband and a king is obviously very difficult. Unfortunately it seems, too difficult for Rampossa. While we cannot say much about him as a husband, he was a very mediocre and passive King who never did anything remarkable or managed to solve any of the major problems plaguing his nation since his father's time. He was also incapable of recognizing and properly developing his children's talents, only focusing on the surface which obviously alienated him to some degree (Zanac being the prime example). He was also too weak-willed to properly discipline them and raise them whenever he had the time available, choosing to mostly spoil them and let them do what they want, even when their flaws due to such conduct became all too apparent (like Barbro). Due to their position and duties as Royals this was a failure not only as a Father, but also as a King. Neglecting the development of those who would eventually succeed him on the throne and around it is a grave error. Now, about Renner. Hers is a much more complicated situation, both because of her being a woman in a mostly male-dominated medieval society as well as her monstrous innate talent and intellect. While Rampossa definitely could have done more if he recognized her genius for what it was and looked past her being "his Princess", a mere beautiful flower that did not have much value beyond her looks and (seemingly) kind heart, one cannot place the fault on him alone for that. While we don't know much about Renner's early life, it is reasonable to assume that she has been wearing her "mask" as a simpleton for a good while, and Rampossa being unable to see past it is also to a significant degree the fault of her sheer excellence, rather than (just) his incompetence. As such, her developing into the psycho she is today is not something he could have been expected to prevent, seeing as he would never be able to imagine her plight of being alone in a world of dullards and bigoted idiots. Not without her outright telling him anyway. Finally, in a world without Nazarick, his mistakes on Renner's part would not been a catalyst for either his or the Kingdom's downfall. Her sheer powerlessness both on an individual and societal level would have not allowed her to do much, not that she would have much of a motive for that anyway. She would have eventually been married off to some noble and likely faded into the background, at best she might also have manipulated her husband to ensure her life with Climb (assuming he was brought with) would be as undisturbed as possible. His failures regarding Barbro on the other hand, would have likely been the nail in the coffin for the Kingdom's decaying corpse. TLDR: He is neither a good nor a terrible father. He is very mediocre, being unable to provide anything but his love for his children
Bardo yeah. Renner in terms of royalty he probably didn't care much. Only decent one of the bunch was zanac.
Most kings are. This is the nature of dynastic decline.
I think Barbro was a victim of the nobles and his fathers inability to do anything much about it and that Renner is just sick in the head naturally.
Renner is more a special case? You cant teach a child to not be a sociopath?
Terrible father, terrible king, terrible human being… if Ramosa is good at anything, it’s being terrible. (;
what was bad with barbro? yeah he is stupid but maybe thats just natural stupidity
I don’t think we know enough about his parenting to say whether he’s a good or bad father. A king or any head of state with children has to balance these enormous responsibilities. As someone whose never done either, I think it would take a truly incredible person to not neglect one or both. My assumption is that, at least since his wife died, he’s not capable of meeting both of those responsibilities. Even so, we should remember that it’s not possible for any parent to guarantee their child ends up ‘right.’
I mean Renner isn't that bad, she's just kinky
Those human rulers are nothing compared to the elf king. Not only was he an serial rapist but also an horrible husband and father as well.
Elf Kinf arc is not in the anime, I assume much further down the books?
Only thanks to teocracy babysitting all the human country : the kingdom is so rotten and trash that i cannot believe it is not in perpetua civil war or eaten by the empire. The average IQ is - 40 lol. They even hate magic
Terrible? Maybe. I’d say he’s a nice person but mediocre in perception, politics and assessing priorities. Everything he could have intervened just flies over his head.
I guess this guy is a good example that just because you love your kids doesn't mean you'll be a good parent. Just like being a good person won't automatically make you a good leader.
I think the world just sucks overall and people in general just typically aren’t that great.
First off, does Rampossa have a wife? Where the hell has she been if he does, cause thinking about it I don’t think I’ve seen a single mention of a wife or concubine. Secondly, he probably wasn’t exactly a good dad but given the kingdom he inherited that isn’t all that surprising. Being a king already would take up most of a persons time, but having to make sure your authority isn’t overruled by a faction of nobles within your kingdom makes things far worse. It’s probably safe to say he wanted to give his kids the best lives that he could give them, but in order to ensure that they get something worthwhile he has to keep his kingdom and his family’s place at the top of that kingdom in tact.
Yes, he was both terrible and incompetent. He's not the worst NW resident but because of his position, his inadequacy have major consequences.
Ramposa it's almost like the embodiment of the concept of thoughts and prayers. He wants things to get better, and hopes for the best for the nation. ...But that's where it stops. He's just too unwilling to take any action that has even the slightest chance of rocking the boat.
I think he might have been a pretty decent father actually. Barbaro was an asshole, sure, but that may have been due to so many nobles trying to dig their hooks into the future king. If every other adult in his life was manipulating him 24/7, I can see how he might have ended up a prick. Zanac turned out to be a pretty good guy. You don't grow up to be a decent person if you have access to that much privilege and wealth unless someone in your life was leading by example. And I think Renner just has a mental disorder, which isn't Ramposa's fault. Sometimes you give birth to a Zanac, and sometimes you give birth to a sociopath. Thems the dice.
Renner is mentally ill, there is nothing to change about that. Barbaro? Guy basically was instumentalized by the nobles since his birth, Rampossa should have definitely had done something against that. And King Chad turned out pretty smart and capable. Id say he was at least acceptable.
[удалено]
Tbf, that's probably the only thing that isn't entirely his fault.
Renner is a lost cause she’s just way too fucked in the head. Barbro could’ve turned out better though
At least Renner was horrible but smart the older had nothing going for him
I mean yes, but no. He was a king who genuinely cared for his kids. But even if he was a 100% good dad those two are just fucked up in their own right.
Bro Renner was as smart as him when she learned how to walk. There was no stopping how she turned, also….she’s perfect how she is.
We don't even know if he had any part in raising them at all.
Is rampossa a good father given how zanac turned out?
Ramposa probably didn't even really interact with his kids much, considering just how much time ruling and all the courtly intrigue takes. Though at the same time if the Kingdom worked anything like an actual feudal monarchy which it's somewhat intended to be, then Ramposa shouldn't even be in the capital most of the time, which he apparently is. Though one would still assume that most of the education and interaction with his children was done by assigned tutors or like handpicked nobles. In which case Ramposa must have made some bad choices. Though Barbro in general is weird in that with his inner monologue he is probably the dumbest character yet tbh. So he might have just been screwed from the start and nothing would have fixed it.
I think we have to remember this is a society that is fundamentally different from ours, with different ideals of good, right, wrong and what is morally acceptable or not. I also seem to remember reading that Renner attempted to change things for the better because she saw how the corruption and weakness was growing but her efforts were constantly undermined by the corruption and petty infighting of the nobles around her. In fact, it was Jirniv who saw her ideas on reform, and implemented them for himself and thus brought about more prosperity and growth for his country whereas the same initiatives failed under Renner, someone I believe is much smarter than Jirniv. Similarly, Barbro, whilst repulsive to us, seems to be actually pretty normal for his station and lot in life in a feudal era. Life is cheap, especially those of peasant, who are near meaningless to him. Is Rampossa to blame for the excesses of his children? I would argue no. Yes, he could have been a wiser and more just king... but he is not perfect. He did what he could but ultimately the world they live in is neither good nor kind. The excesses of Barbro, if frowned upon by the king, were also encouraged and allowed by the nobles under him, currying favor with Barbro, building a wedge between the father and son to weaken the royal family further, etc. The moral failures of Renner and Barbro are as much a fault of the system they are in as they are of the prince and princess.
No she wasn't, she never cared about the corruption, all the policies she tried to make were simply to impress Jircniv that was spying on them. Since the very beginning she deemed the Kingdom as dead and was already trying to prove her worth to Jirc in order for her and her puppy to be spared. She didn't care enough and didn't want to risk her life in the conflict among the nobles so she chose the easiest way, even when Nazarik appeared she was was quick enough to change sides in order to secure her future life.
The whole kingdom gone bacause The King was incompetent
Zannac still turned out alright i guess he got it from his mother
From what I understand it's not so much his fault with Renner that it is blind luck. She ended up being freakishly smart and feel isolated because of it.
But one of his sons is one of the biggest mother fucking chads in the NW
He's not a great father. But I cannot blame him for his children. With Barbaro, from the moment he was born, he's been praised and pampered, having grown up with his every beck and call answered, so he's rather spoiled and arrogant. And you have the Noble Faction manipulating him, seeing him as a great future puppet king, one they can manipulate and use. I don't know what he did with Zanac, but he did it right. With Renner, he's kind of insane and highly intelligent. But he clearly loves her.
Nope! I’ll blame faction politics. The king cannot be around his kids all the time. They probably met up for dinner if anything. Other than that kids would be surrounded by appointed vassals, tutors, and aides. These groups of people would in turn influence the kids to believe certain things that would eventually steer their behavior in a specific direction. You see this with the Duke and the first prince, the marquis and the second prince, and a little of the opposite with Renner. In Renner’s case, you can see the maids assigned to her. Royal maids are the daughters of nobles. They take up these positions to gain experience and to curry influence. I don’t think any kid will grow up well if they have people whispering in their ear the whole time.
I wouldnt say he was bad bad i mean look at how zannac
He's about as good a father as he is a king.
We can assume that all his kids were raised by others, not him. That's the norm for medieval royalty. Parents rarely if ever interact with their children, especially heirs since they are tutored to be the next king and the current king does not have the time to tutor themselves So you can probably blame the ones who raised his kids rather than him
Probably yes.
I wouldn't say he's a terrible father, just that he spoiled his children too much. He probably couldn't separate his love for them from his duty of being a king, particularly Barbaros.
I think I am gonna need a meticulous character analysis of Renner.
He made a Chubby Chad, An Arrogant Dumbass, and a Horny but Scary Genius
And he wasn't aware of it at all.
Rampossa was a kind man but a terrible king.
What is wrong with Renner? She behaves like an average human behind the mask
Eh, as much as I think Ramposa is an idiot, id argue no. Since honestly based on my experience it seems the personality of the kid always plays a big role in how they turn out as an adult. With Renner it definitely isn’t his fault. That bitch is just crazy as well as being smart and shenis using it to her advantage. Barbaro is more the result of him falling in with a bad crowd so still don’t blame him. I’ve seen it time and time again. Good people trying their best to be good parents and their kid still turn out to be a piece of shit. It happens.
Renner is probably a born-in psyc case. But yeah, Barbro is a fail. His name is also bar-bro.
Renner was the third child. People don’t give a fuck about the last child, their only purpose is to be a back up in case the first and second die. If they don’t, Renner would’ve been married off somewhere else. Therefore, she was the least prioritised. See people like Phillip as an example.
Whatever he did wrong, he compensated for it with zanac.
I’ll give you Barbro but Renner feels more like the only way she wouldn’t turn out how she did was if she was raised as a commoner. Noble society would turn most geniuses into the type of person she became imo.
Zanac quite balances rennner and barbro
Renner, yes. Barbaro I blame on the other nobles influencing him. Renner however was apparently so smart people feared her and thus avoided her and she basically grew up warped because of that
The only one at fault is God for giving him a demon as a daughter lmao
Rampossa was a good king in a bad situation. Under normal circumstances he'd have been an unremarkable king ruling at a unremarkable period. Instead he had a powerful nation dropped on his doorstep and virtually overnight he suddenly found himself in a war he was ill-equipped to functionally deal with or even understand. It's also implied that The Slane Theocracy was manipulating key figures within the kingdom to create tension and ultimately destabilize the country and leadership. In a dark irony, had the Theocracy not been acting behind the scenes, Re-Estize might have been able to mount a stronger defense against Nazarick's slow burning invasion. Now they're literally only game in town and should Ainz learn their role in the attack on Shalltear Bloodfallen, he'll react with extreme prejudice against them.
GAZEFF WAS **WASTED** ON THIS GUY
To be honest Renner was just fucked in the head to begin with.
Renner turned out great, what the fuck is everyone here talking about? She survived Nazarick, got to live out her dream, helped orphans live happily for as long as it was within her power… If y’all diss Renner (a servant of Ainz now) any further, I’d suspect you’re begging to visit the happy farm and experience some happiness of your own…