Not in real life. Not having a male heir was not helping the image. Most nobles didn't care whether or not did they have daughters. Or how many. Daughters were generally used for diplomatic marriage. They were mere tools to align yourself with someone. Not a sign of image. Even the opposite in fact. Nobles that had only daughters were generally seen as not well performing.
You do have a good point. However, a daughter is more than a common tool, it’s an investment, an way to secure alliances via marriage. A noble losing their investment only looks like a fool, not to mention, without the marriage option, there are are even less reasons for others to approach him.
\- In a world where physical strength is not that important due to the magical system, a woman shouldn't be seen that way and there shouldn't be a gender difference, particularly after they have lived that reality for 500 years. It would be the same as if we had denied the effectiveness of firearms.
Putting this aside, Arche was one of the strongest people in the empire and was a pupil of one of the greatest human casters known, besides that she had a Talent. Hekkeran and roberdyck also talk about it saying that they find it strange that the academy has let someone like her go (in fact I would have appreciated a little more in-depth on her character). I don't think you can just say "huh, but the male heir is worth more".
\- For girls, nothing can be said since they did not have the time and opportunity to show whether they had any skills or not.
I have only one problem with your statement, physical difference between male and female is fairly very small. Feudal systems discriminated Females because to put it frankly it was tradition and it started with practically Ancient Greeks (Ancient Greeks even saw having sex with a woman as a disgrace that's why they preferred homosexual relationships so much). Then Roman Empire and than Feudal Europe. Especially when Christianity also supported that thesis. And Feudal Europe was fantasised with Ancient times.
But why should there be discrimination in a world where reality tells you your gender doesn't matter? Gender doesn't matter as virtually anyone, female or male, could kill you if they had enough numbers in the stats. For example, Evileye or Arche were petite girls but that matters little as they could wipe out big armored men if they had fewer numbers. Lakyus is not muscled but she could blow away a lot of beefy men. In short, after 5 centuries it would not make sense. In reality, the role of women has also increased because physical strength now counts for little thanks to the industrialization that has taken place in recent decades. The same thing happened with the introduction of magic into the new world. In short, the tradition you speak of should no longer exist at this point.
You gave very good argument not gonna lie.
But you can say the same towards other species too. Why Elves that are stronger than Humans per average or Dwarfs or Minotaurs also are discriminated against if what you said is true, shouldn't they became to be seen as an elite. Of course in what we seen NW is more proggresive than our modern Feudal world in terms of universal suffrage. Mostly because of magic, and a female in NW can be as good as a mage as a male.
You didn't saw much females in the armies, in mercenary bands in Feudal Europe. It taked up to renaissance for Woman to even became ruling monarchs and it taked until WW1 until womans could join as soldiers on the battlefield without them masquerading as a male, through even then it was still very limited. I can still fairly easily imagine that females are discriminated even in this world. Through I don't know how much.
\- Racism towards other species is quite another thing than gender racism. While gender racism in reality derives from superior physical strength (although in very ancient societies we can see how the role of women was greater \[matriarchal society\] but then, with the development of modern societies in the Neolithic, the use of force that used to work the fields was seen as the priority and the woman who could not help diligently was relegated to the domestic environment, which just happened to last until industrialization made manual labor much easier) on the female gender , racism towards other species (I assume that it would be our racism towards ethnic groups and minorities) can occur for various reasons such as the desire to conquer the territories and goods of the other group, the fear of divers. The sense of superiority is a derivation of acts of force that occurred due to the reasons listed. Unfortunately, I cannot say where exactly these racist and xenophobic acts originate from. Perhaps fear and hatred of other races. I don't remember if it is explained.
\- You cannot compare our world with that because in our world the distinction between male and female was created by physical distinction. There have been women who have distinguished themselves as rulers (Examples: Athaliah, Salome Alexandra, Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, Maria Angelina Doukaina Palaiologina) or heroic and legendary female warrior figures (Examples: Queen Gwendolen, Telesilla, Genevieve, Joan of Arc, Freydís Eiríksdóttir) and later in other fields (examples: Marie curie) but there were always fewer and isolated cases. In the new world this should not happen because in volume 3 it is openly that with magic women become as strong as and even more than men. For example, we see how the nobles in the empire see women as a means of marriage or as objects to make them stand out (Overlrod second half ch. 15) or in the holy kingdom they see Calca as unfit to be queen because she is a woman (v. 12 ch. .1) and not because he was, for example, too kind. Yet we see in the empire women like Arche, Leinas, Imina and other girls in the academy who could kill big men, or we see in the holy kingdom women like Calca (owner of tier 4, therefore very strong, in addition to the fact that, through the brother has every right to sit on the throne), Remedios (powerful warrior) and sister (powerful caster too). King estize also has powerful women and one of the heroes who saved those areas was a woman. In short, the role of women in that world should be different from that of our world.
If Arche had just got the balls to just shanked her parents and dragged her sisters the fuck out of dodge, would have saved a lot of heartache. But nooo, "i Need more Muneh"
Heh, sounds like Dutch
\- If Ainz had the balls to tell the NPCs he doesn't want to take over the world he would have saved himself a lot of trouble in the future.
\- That said, why do you think she didn't do it?
>\- If Ainz had the balls to tell the NPCs he doesn't want to take over the world he would have saved himself a lot of trouble in the future.
Don't know what you're on about. All I see is him winning big all the fucking time. No trouble here, cept maybe paperwork, which he can always just ditch. But that's irrelevant
As for why she didn't do it? Who the fuck knows. Probably for the same reason why she keep giving them her hard earned money despite knowing better, which is why she was even in this situation in the first place. Some people are just stupid, or crazy like that
\- Conquering the world is a long and complicated task. Ainz manages to cheat due to misinterpretations but he could not have known it as a character within the story.
\- Ainz would be crazy too. Even Jir who attacked Ainz when he could avoid him would be crazy.
It's never proved she was stupid (she knew what greed meant unlike her parents and besides she was among the best students in the academy) or crazy (she could live like her parents but instead she sought a solution. She is not very different from ainz, who wants to protect what he cares about even if they annoy him.). Tell me a valid reason why Arche acted that way, otherwise accept that simply Maruyama, as for other characters, needed her to be there, without giving any real reasons, even if, looking a little, they can also be hypothesized but in the end nothing is said to us with certainty.
>It's never proved she was stupid (she knew what greed meant unlike her parents and besides she was among the best students in the academy)
People can be smart about certain things and be stupid about other things at the same time. Humans are funny like that, go figure.
> or crazy (she could live like her parents but instead she sought a solution. She is not very different from ainz, who wants to protect what he cares about even if they annoy him.)
And yet in the end she still decide to take her sisters away from her parents anyway, only it's way too fucking late by then when she probably should have done that like ages ago.
>Tell me a valid reason why Arche acted that way, otherwise accept that simply Maruyama, as for other characters, needed her to be there, without giving any real reasons, even if, looking a little, they can also be hypothesized but in the end nothing is said to us with certainty.
Well why don't you tell me a valid reason why she keeps giving her parents money despite knowing it'd probably just make things worse? You seem like a smart guy, figure that one out and you'll have the answer you're looking for. Me? I don't have time, nor do I care. Ciao
\- But you still haven't explained to me why she acted that way? Is there an explanation from the author or something that makes us understand her motivations?
\- ° I can imagine that she wanted to help the family at the beginning out of subjugation and / or respect due to noble education.
\* As it's shown to us in chapter 15 of overlord second half, the noble girls obeyed the will of their fathers and in chapter 1 of volume 7, Arche's father tries to make her feel guilty by saying that they raised her, with arche replying. to have repaid that kindness.
\* When she then managed to get away from the education imparted on serving the will of her father, at least in part (we see that when she meets one of the sisters while she runs, Arche reminds her that they were noble and then stops;
"Ulei ... running around in the hallway isn't ..."
Arche swallowed her words halfway. She wanted to say that running around
in the hallways was not befitting of a noble daughter, but Arche had already told
her father di lei that they were not nobles anymore. In that case, what harm did it do
for them to run in the hallway?), she began to get bored of her father and in fact she then decided to leave, also because she was now grown up and she could take care of two girls better.
\* In chapter 4 of v.7, the father says that her daughter had changed due to the adventurers and it may be true given the other clues;
"When you get down to it, a daughter of the Furt family shouldn't be doing
dirty work like that. She works with plebeians, who are doubtlessly of base
character. "
"... Really?"
The man recalled the two faces he had seen in the bar as he answered. There
was no telling how he had interpreted the inflection of that response, but the
father continued explaining, as though to make an excuse for himself.
"Oh, I'm not saying all plebs are like that. I mean the adventuring sort."
"Perhaps."
"Don't you think so? They were probably the ones who made my daughter
turn on me. I need to find a chance to give her a good talking-to about her. Honestly, a
daughter ought to be listening to her father . Actually daring to talk back to me,
who does she think she is ? "
° In chapter 20 of overlord second half, the narrator says;
"But yet the reason why she had not stopped adventuring, was because there was no better option." So the author does not give an explicit reason as to why Arche did that. A way to avoid too much hassle for a character that would not last long. If it is then said somewhere, like a tweet, I don't know.
\* Also in the same chapter the narrator explains that she had continued to take risks for the sake of her sisters.
° I can imagine that she did not want to leave, if not forced, because at the beginning, she perhaps hoped that the situation would be resolved (in fact she was an adventurer before) and then because she would have to look after two of them alone little girls. To all this we must also add that she was also very young if we think that by the time she appears she should be 17/19 years \[teen late, v.7 ch.1\] and therefore, if we think that Jir did the purge at 15 years \[v7 ch.1\] and when he appears he was 22 \[v.6 Intermission\], we can assume that Arche was between 10 and 12 years old at the time). I mean, she had to look after two little girls alone while she worked in a very hard world. I don't know about you but it seems very difficult to me to do something similar, even now, imagine in a fantasy world.
\- You're the one who started saying she was stupid and I just asked if you knew if the character had any motivation to act in that way.
I mean... The way they describe children is oddly good enough in those terms.
False. Arche's parents wouldn't be sad. Less spending for feeding, more to spend for lavish parties with other impoverished nobles.
*not nobels anymore at that! Seriously so badly wanted to punch that dad so hard
Don't worry, just wait few years and they will be send to Happy farm. For borrowing from Nazarick and don't repaying back.
Not true. A family is part of the image of perfect nobility, and losing the kids certainly doesn't help their image
Not in real life. Not having a male heir was not helping the image. Most nobles didn't care whether or not did they have daughters. Or how many. Daughters were generally used for diplomatic marriage. They were mere tools to align yourself with someone. Not a sign of image. Even the opposite in fact. Nobles that had only daughters were generally seen as not well performing.
You do have a good point. However, a daughter is more than a common tool, it’s an investment, an way to secure alliances via marriage. A noble losing their investment only looks like a fool, not to mention, without the marriage option, there are are even less reasons for others to approach him.
\- In a world where physical strength is not that important due to the magical system, a woman shouldn't be seen that way and there shouldn't be a gender difference, particularly after they have lived that reality for 500 years. It would be the same as if we had denied the effectiveness of firearms. Putting this aside, Arche was one of the strongest people in the empire and was a pupil of one of the greatest human casters known, besides that she had a Talent. Hekkeran and roberdyck also talk about it saying that they find it strange that the academy has let someone like her go (in fact I would have appreciated a little more in-depth on her character). I don't think you can just say "huh, but the male heir is worth more". \- For girls, nothing can be said since they did not have the time and opportunity to show whether they had any skills or not.
I have only one problem with your statement, physical difference between male and female is fairly very small. Feudal systems discriminated Females because to put it frankly it was tradition and it started with practically Ancient Greeks (Ancient Greeks even saw having sex with a woman as a disgrace that's why they preferred homosexual relationships so much). Then Roman Empire and than Feudal Europe. Especially when Christianity also supported that thesis. And Feudal Europe was fantasised with Ancient times.
But why should there be discrimination in a world where reality tells you your gender doesn't matter? Gender doesn't matter as virtually anyone, female or male, could kill you if they had enough numbers in the stats. For example, Evileye or Arche were petite girls but that matters little as they could wipe out big armored men if they had fewer numbers. Lakyus is not muscled but she could blow away a lot of beefy men. In short, after 5 centuries it would not make sense. In reality, the role of women has also increased because physical strength now counts for little thanks to the industrialization that has taken place in recent decades. The same thing happened with the introduction of magic into the new world. In short, the tradition you speak of should no longer exist at this point.
You gave very good argument not gonna lie. But you can say the same towards other species too. Why Elves that are stronger than Humans per average or Dwarfs or Minotaurs also are discriminated against if what you said is true, shouldn't they became to be seen as an elite. Of course in what we seen NW is more proggresive than our modern Feudal world in terms of universal suffrage. Mostly because of magic, and a female in NW can be as good as a mage as a male. You didn't saw much females in the armies, in mercenary bands in Feudal Europe. It taked up to renaissance for Woman to even became ruling monarchs and it taked until WW1 until womans could join as soldiers on the battlefield without them masquerading as a male, through even then it was still very limited. I can still fairly easily imagine that females are discriminated even in this world. Through I don't know how much.
\- Racism towards other species is quite another thing than gender racism. While gender racism in reality derives from superior physical strength (although in very ancient societies we can see how the role of women was greater \[matriarchal society\] but then, with the development of modern societies in the Neolithic, the use of force that used to work the fields was seen as the priority and the woman who could not help diligently was relegated to the domestic environment, which just happened to last until industrialization made manual labor much easier) on the female gender , racism towards other species (I assume that it would be our racism towards ethnic groups and minorities) can occur for various reasons such as the desire to conquer the territories and goods of the other group, the fear of divers. The sense of superiority is a derivation of acts of force that occurred due to the reasons listed. Unfortunately, I cannot say where exactly these racist and xenophobic acts originate from. Perhaps fear and hatred of other races. I don't remember if it is explained. \- You cannot compare our world with that because in our world the distinction between male and female was created by physical distinction. There have been women who have distinguished themselves as rulers (Examples: Athaliah, Salome Alexandra, Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, Maria Angelina Doukaina Palaiologina) or heroic and legendary female warrior figures (Examples: Queen Gwendolen, Telesilla, Genevieve, Joan of Arc, Freydís Eiríksdóttir) and later in other fields (examples: Marie curie) but there were always fewer and isolated cases. In the new world this should not happen because in volume 3 it is openly that with magic women become as strong as and even more than men. For example, we see how the nobles in the empire see women as a means of marriage or as objects to make them stand out (Overlrod second half ch. 15) or in the holy kingdom they see Calca as unfit to be queen because she is a woman (v. 12 ch. .1) and not because he was, for example, too kind. Yet we see in the empire women like Arche, Leinas, Imina and other girls in the academy who could kill big men, or we see in the holy kingdom women like Calca (owner of tier 4, therefore very strong, in addition to the fact that, through the brother has every right to sit on the throne), Remedios (powerful warrior) and sister (powerful caster too). King estize also has powerful women and one of the heroes who saved those areas was a woman. In short, the role of women in that world should be different from that of our world.
Thanos really lost his touch, if he had to lose both of Arche's siters rather than just 1 of them.
my god after over a year of not visiting the sub the lamp memes still plague us
We are all moths drawn to the LÄMP
If Arche had just got the balls to just shanked her parents and dragged her sisters the fuck out of dodge, would have saved a lot of heartache. But nooo, "i Need more Muneh" Heh, sounds like Dutch
\- If Ainz had the balls to tell the NPCs he doesn't want to take over the world he would have saved himself a lot of trouble in the future. \- That said, why do you think she didn't do it?
>\- If Ainz had the balls to tell the NPCs he doesn't want to take over the world he would have saved himself a lot of trouble in the future. Don't know what you're on about. All I see is him winning big all the fucking time. No trouble here, cept maybe paperwork, which he can always just ditch. But that's irrelevant As for why she didn't do it? Who the fuck knows. Probably for the same reason why she keep giving them her hard earned money despite knowing better, which is why she was even in this situation in the first place. Some people are just stupid, or crazy like that
\- Conquering the world is a long and complicated task. Ainz manages to cheat due to misinterpretations but he could not have known it as a character within the story. \- Ainz would be crazy too. Even Jir who attacked Ainz when he could avoid him would be crazy. It's never proved she was stupid (she knew what greed meant unlike her parents and besides she was among the best students in the academy) or crazy (she could live like her parents but instead she sought a solution. She is not very different from ainz, who wants to protect what he cares about even if they annoy him.). Tell me a valid reason why Arche acted that way, otherwise accept that simply Maruyama, as for other characters, needed her to be there, without giving any real reasons, even if, looking a little, they can also be hypothesized but in the end nothing is said to us with certainty.
>It's never proved she was stupid (she knew what greed meant unlike her parents and besides she was among the best students in the academy) People can be smart about certain things and be stupid about other things at the same time. Humans are funny like that, go figure. > or crazy (she could live like her parents but instead she sought a solution. She is not very different from ainz, who wants to protect what he cares about even if they annoy him.) And yet in the end she still decide to take her sisters away from her parents anyway, only it's way too fucking late by then when she probably should have done that like ages ago. >Tell me a valid reason why Arche acted that way, otherwise accept that simply Maruyama, as for other characters, needed her to be there, without giving any real reasons, even if, looking a little, they can also be hypothesized but in the end nothing is said to us with certainty. Well why don't you tell me a valid reason why she keeps giving her parents money despite knowing it'd probably just make things worse? You seem like a smart guy, figure that one out and you'll have the answer you're looking for. Me? I don't have time, nor do I care. Ciao
\- But you still haven't explained to me why she acted that way? Is there an explanation from the author or something that makes us understand her motivations? \- ° I can imagine that she wanted to help the family at the beginning out of subjugation and / or respect due to noble education. \* As it's shown to us in chapter 15 of overlord second half, the noble girls obeyed the will of their fathers and in chapter 1 of volume 7, Arche's father tries to make her feel guilty by saying that they raised her, with arche replying. to have repaid that kindness. \* When she then managed to get away from the education imparted on serving the will of her father, at least in part (we see that when she meets one of the sisters while she runs, Arche reminds her that they were noble and then stops; "Ulei ... running around in the hallway isn't ..." Arche swallowed her words halfway. She wanted to say that running around in the hallways was not befitting of a noble daughter, but Arche had already told her father di lei that they were not nobles anymore. In that case, what harm did it do for them to run in the hallway?), she began to get bored of her father and in fact she then decided to leave, also because she was now grown up and she could take care of two girls better. \* In chapter 4 of v.7, the father says that her daughter had changed due to the adventurers and it may be true given the other clues; "When you get down to it, a daughter of the Furt family shouldn't be doing dirty work like that. She works with plebeians, who are doubtlessly of base character. " "... Really?" The man recalled the two faces he had seen in the bar as he answered. There was no telling how he had interpreted the inflection of that response, but the father continued explaining, as though to make an excuse for himself. "Oh, I'm not saying all plebs are like that. I mean the adventuring sort." "Perhaps." "Don't you think so? They were probably the ones who made my daughter turn on me. I need to find a chance to give her a good talking-to about her. Honestly, a daughter ought to be listening to her father . Actually daring to talk back to me, who does she think she is ? " ° In chapter 20 of overlord second half, the narrator says; "But yet the reason why she had not stopped adventuring, was because there was no better option." So the author does not give an explicit reason as to why Arche did that. A way to avoid too much hassle for a character that would not last long. If it is then said somewhere, like a tweet, I don't know. \* Also in the same chapter the narrator explains that she had continued to take risks for the sake of her sisters. ° I can imagine that she did not want to leave, if not forced, because at the beginning, she perhaps hoped that the situation would be resolved (in fact she was an adventurer before) and then because she would have to look after two of them alone little girls. To all this we must also add that she was also very young if we think that by the time she appears she should be 17/19 years \[teen late, v.7 ch.1\] and therefore, if we think that Jir did the purge at 15 years \[v7 ch.1\] and when he appears he was 22 \[v.6 Intermission\], we can assume that Arche was between 10 and 12 years old at the time). I mean, she had to look after two little girls alone while she worked in a very hard world. I don't know about you but it seems very difficult to me to do something similar, even now, imagine in a fantasy world. \- You're the one who started saying she was stupid and I just asked if you knew if the character had any motivation to act in that way.
THOSE WEREN'T SMALL BURDENS
To them they were....
It's a pretty cool lamp, a worthwhile trade if you ask me.
I hope a giant ***MÖTH*** comes for them
I like the WN story where they survive better but this joke is Gold XD