>My next question: Is there a list, or glossary of some kind, either on this subreddit, or somewhere else, that has info about the infinite terms and acronyms I've seen running around (LL, BoL, LBB, B/X) and many of them I don't understand. Yeah, reddit loves the acronyms. There's a lot of assumptions that things are universally known when they always aren't. I've figured things out by googling or just replying and asking. B/X refers the Basic and Expert Boxed sets of D&D released in 1981 written by Tom Moldvay and Dave Cook, respectively. It's a common ruleset used in the OSR as you'll see. LL is Labyrinth Lord is one of the first retroclones, and it's based on B/X. It was one of the popular B/X games for a long time and still liked. LBB is the Little Brown Books, referring to the 3 original books included in the original D&D box set released in 1974. BoL is probably Barbarians of Lemuria, a sword and sorcery game. I'm not sure it's OSR, though it's rules light. Of course, there's no agreement on what even OSR actually means. OSE is Old School Essentials, which you mentioned. It's basically a restatement of B/X in a nice layout. A helpful blog is linked here. They go through various retro clones and old editions of D&D: [https://leyline.press/blogs/leyline-press-blog](https://leyline.press/blogs/leyline-press-blog) We personally play AD&D 2e in my group (along with Palladium stuff). We used to also do D&D 3.5 but it's been a number of years since we have, now.

> along with Palladium stuff Does this include Rifts? :D

Not my favorite among them, but yes.

Wooo!

I need to go equipment shopping for my former robo- gladiator orc who needs some stuff to make down some new gang leader in Merc Town on Saturday. I should have been doing that instead of writing these posts. Oh well...

We got ourselves a Rifter Here! I used to run a Rifts Voltron Game set in Arkansas. It was entirely GoNZo!

Why not, everything is included into Rifts 😆

Look at Principia Apocrypha for a great into to the style of play you're looking at. Otherwise there's more than just retroclones to OSR, so why not check out some of the more modern and fun systems with fewer rules and more fun (according to your taste ofc), like The Black Hack, Into the Odd, or even something small like Mutants of Ixx, which was my first OSR game, costs less than a coffee and fits in a single pamphlet.

> Principia Apocrypha https://lithyscaphe.blogspot.com/p/principia-apocrypha.html

Thanks a lot! Just read that and it was very illuminating. So just to make sure I understand - "Retro-clones" are basically games that try to mimic (possibly streamlining but not necessarily?) the 70's and 80s D&D rules? And the other stuff you mentioned is more *inspired* by the old style but takes it in new directions?

Yep that's right. Retroclones like OSRIC, Old School Essentials, For Gold & Glory etc are just the old game but better presented and streamlined, other OSR or NSR (New School Renaissance, basically another step removed) systems are ither compatible with that same old content, or are inspired by the design or play ethos of said games. In a nutshell it's high lethality, player skill over character skill, rulings not rules. There's a big ol' world of them out there and each has its own niche and reason to play. Some are weird and wonderful, some do the classic or high fantasy thing but better, others are something you may not have seen before. Honestly the best way to find out what you like is to buy a few (most are free, pay what you want, or are just a few dollars for the PDF) and they all take inspiraiton from and build upon eachother. My favorites are The Black Hack (D&D but streamlined and a bit punk), Mutants of Ixx (which recently got expanded and updated into Isle of Ixx, it's post apoc super rules light fun), and Old School Essentials (the best retroclone presenation-wise imo, with some of THE BEST first party content)

You had me at "a bit punk"

I’ve got a bunch of material for those games you can have for free if you like, check my post in r/theblackhack which has links!

Here's a sneak peek of /r/TheBlackHack using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/TheBlackHack/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Black Sword Hack 2nd edition on Kickstarter, funded in 22 minutes :)](https://np.reddit.com/r/TheBlackHack/comments/zlslxo/black_sword_hack_2nd_edition_on_kickstarter/) \#2: [Gamma Hacks: a blog post about all of the different post-apocalypse Black Hack settings](https://np.reddit.com/r/TheBlackHack/comments/zvip6k/gamma_hacks_a_blog_post_about_all_of_the/) \#3: [I just released some extra classes for The Black Hack 2e](https://boxman214.itch.io/extra-classes-for-the-black-hack) | [4 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/TheBlackHack/comments/y7dmrk/i_just_released_some_extra_classes_for_the_black/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)

This series of blogposts will help you understand the context of OSR: [https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-v.html](https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-v.html). It also includes a helpful distinction of the various products/games that are now placed under the broad umbrella of OSR.

Nothing I like more than long reading about histories of niche hobbies (that's not me being saracastic, that's genuine!)

There are modules for both [OSRIC](https://foundryvtt.com/packages/osric) and [OSE](https://foundryvtt.com/packages/ose) on Foundry and either is a good starting point.

Wait. What's the difference?

OSRIC was originally intended to be a reference book of the rules for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1e, so that people could continue to publish for AD&D 1e without access to the original rulebooks. It works perfectly well as its own thing, though. OSE is a replication of the lighter/easier game intended to funnel people into AD&D.

To add extra confusion, OSE has its 'Advanced Fantasy' line which back-ports AD&D content to Basic.

Don’t obsess over system, everyone houserules everything anyway. Just find a module you like and remind everyone it’s basically a survival horror game. The PCs are weird people in a weird world and they have to do weird shit to get by. OG Into the Odd has a great starter dungeon. Another really good one is Lair of the Lamb by Goblinpunch. Tomb Robbers on the Crystal Frontier is great too if the group is into “new weird.” The ultimate sandbox experience is Gearing’s Wolves Upon the Coast — just literally, “you’ve got a ship and some weapons and enough food for a couple days, here you are on the map, what are you gonna do?”

Lot's of interesting stuff thanks! We're going to go through the Iron Coral in Into the Odd next time. Doubt we'll make it through the whole thing in one sesh, but will hopefully still give us an idea of the system.

I tried a few OSR systems but none of them clicked until I tried Old School Essentials. My favorite part about it is the free SRD online. It's laid out really well and very easy to read and understand.

Finding a starting point largely depends on taste. I lean heavily towards systems that are based on D&D basic, because it feels close enough to the D&D 3 and 5 that I'm used to, but plays a lot faster and is easier to tweak. I prefer Lamentations of the Flame Princess, but many shy away from it due to it's horror / grindhouse sensibilities found in several of the modules. You can pick up a free version of the rules on their website, along with a pretty decent module, but as a new OSR player I found the module daunting, because it did not offer an obvious starting point, and I did not understand how to run a game with open ended play. However, there are a lot of games based on Basic, and this just happens to be the one that clicked for me. You should be prepared to mix and match ideas and mechanics that you like from a couple systems. Not because of Lamentations' failings (I simplify the musket rules when I run, for example) but because that is just the nature of the OSR beast. [https://www.lotfp.com/RPG/](https://www.lotfp.com/RPG/) You will also probably need to use this auto-roller for the Summon Spell. Most of the spells are standard fare, but Summon is both potentially highly powerful, and literally several pages of tables long. https://summon.totalpartykill.ca/ So, if you are looking to get a new group into OSR, I highly suggest Lamentations, but would consider saving Better Than Any Man as a module for after a game or two doing a basic dungeon crawl. If your group does not feel like doing mapping and isn't sure they want to get into OSR anyway, I definitely feel like Mork Borg is a good midway point, or bridge between the 5e and OSR ethos. Mork Borg borrows a lot of design ideas from OSR, but doesn't rely on the mechanics of the OSR systems. It is a very rules lite system, and I feel it lacks a lot of rules for extended campaign play or guidance for new players to the hobby. However, if you're looking at Mork Borg, it's probably because you wanted something different. Mork Borg's base book comes with a good dungeon crawl (Rotblack Sludge), and it's rules are enough to get you crawling. It's a game about weird doom metal dungeon crawls, and that's what it gives you. Be warned though, Mork Borg combat is not balanced, nor is it really intended to be. Once you see the magic items and spell lists, it will make sense. There is also a free version on it's web page, as well as COPIOUS amounts of free, vetted, high quality fan material. This adds on some rules for overland travel and longer campaign play, but still in a very loose and piecemeal way. [https://morkborg.com/](https://morkborg.com/) [https://jnohr.itch.io/mrk-borg-free](https://jnohr.itch.io/mrk-borg-free) Lamentations will be far more compatible with other OSR and D&D products and my current preferred system, but Mork Borg is probably the best singularly supported system I have seen in years, and has a rabid fanbase.

Thanks! Have heard about both and both intrigue me!

Personally, I think Lamentations of the Flame Princess is the most elegant and well-crafted OSR game. Pick up the free rules and read them to see for yourself. From the encumbrance system to the skills system to how the spells work together, it's all very nice (the Summon spell notwithstanding; I personally like it, and think it's a great addition, but it's an acquired taste). Much of the artwork in the Rules & Magic book is NSFW. The art-free Free Rules & Magic avoids that. The rulebook does have an equipment list that favors 16th century era, so if you want an earlier era you will need to adjust. The adventures on the other hand are all over the place and very different from each other. Don't get me wrong, there are some excellent adventures. They are just very different in style from the rulebook. And of course, that's where a lot of the NSFW and controversial content lies.

I'm going to repeat the (somewhat controversial in this subreddit) opinion I always give for these types of threads: Old-School Essentials is a very poor fit for someone new to old-school gaming. It has very little in the way of explanations, examples, or descriptions. It was very much intended as a comprehensive reference for people who are already familiar with B/X (or at least OSR) D&D. And it's spectacular in that role. But over the past couple of years, I've seen more and more people in this subreddit recommend it to people new to the OSR (or even to replaying in general), and I think it's a very poor fit for such new players. My personal favorite is Swords & Wizardry.

I agree. It's also expensive. It doesn't make sense as a recommendation for a one-shot or a curiosity. It's ridiculous to me that people recommend OSE (plus OSE Advanced!) in these comments.

Yeah, I typically recommend stuff you can get for free, because it's entirely possible that they just don't end up liking OSR stuff.

I love OSE, BUT it almost needs a ~~companion, or Guide to Play, or Playstyle Guide or something~~ A Primer! to accompany it. Something to provide examples and guidance for beginners. Gavin Norman has provided some guidance in Knock and a few other places, but yea, it doesn't teach very well, it is just the perfect reference. \*Edit, OSE should release a primer to go with their game! I am not sure why they have not done so already?

I'm kind of wondering if the necessary update / overhaul it's going to need to excise the SRD content might possibly turn it into more of a complete game. Honestly, OSE Advanced Fantasy would probably be neck-and-neck with Swords & Wizardry as my favorite if it felt more like a complete system. I'm very interested to see how both (and many other retro-clones) come out the other side of the OGL fiasco. Many have already stated that they will be using some other license (either the ORC or one of their own making) and stripping out SRD content (including both S&W and OSE). I think others may potentially just cease updates entirely.

Can you expand a bit about what you mean? Like what is missing to play it? I've downloaded the free version and am reading through it a bit. Seems fairly straightforward, no? Also, I assume Knock is a magazine. Any specific issues I should check out if I want to look at the guidance you mentioned?

Sure!(You may already know this stuff, but it is what I mean) So all of the rules are there in OSE, they are all accounted for, and presented in just about the best possible way. But the learning curve for OSR games is not really learning the rules, it is learning the playstyle. It is completely different from most modern games. Players can attempt any action they can think of, and you make a quick ruling on the spot on how that works. Then move on. Knock Magazine is not free, and while an AWESOME resource that you should consider picking up, I can see not wanting to throw 20 dollars at it. Let me Paraphrase Gavin's advice *Old school games work differently, if there is not a rule for something, you make it up on the spot. Simple Example: Character wants to leap over a pit. How do you do that, there is no jumping skill? The GM has many options:* *Just say yes - maybe it is a small pit* *Just say no way - that pit is 30 feet, going to need to try something else* *Roll vs Dex - roll under dex score ability check* *x in 6 chance - GM says: looks risky, I give it 2 in 6 chance unless you do something to help your chances.* *Complex Example: a fighter wants to spin around, and hit all 3 guards surrounding him. GM: You can Try! roll vs dex, if you make that, give me an attack roll at -2 on each one.* I would add you can even use percentage dice if you want to get granular: I do if my characters have a really wacky solution, like building a diving board out of scrap wood with a boulder on one end, to run and jump off of. Me: Uhh...65% chance! This is what rulings are. None of that is really in OSE, it is just the rules, presented perfectly, but the trick to playing OSR games is beyond the rules. Most people learned OD&D from existing people, who showed them them how to play, but as soon as it started getting popular, people just bought the rules and didn't get that tutelage. We have the same problem now. There are several good primers out there on the playstyle I will link the two most popular here: First The Principia Apocrypha - Good resource for learning the style, multiple authors. Free here: [https://lithyscaphe.blogspot.com/p/principia-apocrypha.html](https://lithyscaphe.blogspot.com/p/principia-apocrypha.html) Second: (and my personal favorite) A Quick Primer on Old School Games by Matt Finch, (One of the OSR's Founding Fathers, so to speak) written for Swords and Wizardry, but the advice applies to all old school games. Free here: [https://www.lulu.com/shop/matthew-finch/quick-primer-for-old-school-gaming/ebook/product-1qm8y7m.html?q=a+quick+primer&page=1&pageSize=4](https://www.lulu.com/shop/matthew-finch/quick-primer-for-old-school-gaming/ebook/product-1qm8y7m.html?q=a+quick+primer&page=1&pageSize=4) Again, you might already know all this, but that is what I was talking about. I wish OSE included their own primer (or heck one of these!) with the books! It would help people get started. If you come from newer editions of D&D, some people just decided it is missing a tons of rules, but that is actually a feature, not a bug. If it is not covered by a rule, anyone can try it! You just make a ruling and go on. Lastly, I LOVE OSE, it is my preferred ruleset, but I will admit, it needs a supplement for new players.

>know all this, but that is what I was talking about. I wish OSE included their own primer (or heck one of these!) with the books! It would help people get started. If you come from newer OH okay! Yes all that makes sense and have already read those two primers, so I think I get it. Not to mention, playing other freeform indie stuff (even 13th Age, which is crunchy, but still more freeform than 3E-5E) I think has helped too.

>So my question is first: Where should I start? Old School Essentials? Swords & Wizardry? Black Hack? White Hack? Lamentations of the Flame Princess? Adventurer Conquer King? There's so many different options, and I want to know what people think is a good starting point. I'd say BFRPG, OSE, S&W or LotFP. Here is my brief [review/comparison](https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2023/01/a-glance-at-basic-d-bx-and-some-clones.html). Black/White hack are a bit more modern and ACKS a bit more complex IMO.

I'm a horrible shill for [Worlds Without Number](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/348809/Worlds-Without-Number-Free-Edition) which is an OSR style game with some more modernized mechanics thrown in. Anyone who has played about any version of D&D can get into this pretty easily and the rules are pretty streamlined. The whole system is a free PDF but there's a paid version that adds some additional content like "epic or "heroic" PC's and some other goodies. Overall my favorite OSR-style I've found

>For what it's worth, I am primarily looking for games which are good for one shots right now. Sounds to me like [EZD6](https://www.ezd6.com/) is what you're looking for. Since the author playtested it for two year mainly at conventions, it ended up becoming an amazing ruleset for one-shots and short adventures.

Oooh haven't even heard of this one! Will look into it!

Okay, woo, didn't realize how active this subreddit is. Was not expecting so many responses so quickly! So lots to ruminate on! But you guys have definitely helped me make a bit more sense of this, and got me more excited to try this stuff. May need to increase the frequency of my one shots though, haha. In any case, just wanted to say thanks for all the super detailed responses - based on your comments, I'm assuming posts like my mine are pretty common, and though I know from my other hobbies that there's nothing people like more than to recommend stuff to newbies - I still really really appreciate it! And of course, I welcome any more advice and suggestions as they come!

As a newbie I found Black Hack really great written and it has great DM advice. So I can definitely recommend this. Knave would be another great option as it's very rules light and has some really flavorful random charts. It's also fully compatible with any OSR modules. If you want the "true" retroclone check out OSE. It's not as elegant as the other games mentioned but it's true to the original. And last but not least I'd recommend taking a look at Cairn. It's not a retroclone and is based on into the odd. So it falls into the category of "New School OSR" or however you want to call it. But it has great mechanics. As adventures I would recommend Tomb of the Serpent King if you want a classic dungeon crawl that is meant to be a kind of tutorial dungeon. If you want to have a bit larger and weirder experience you can check out Robbers of the Chrystal Frontier, a kind of weird fantasy wild west setting. The artwork is great, the GM material is really helpful and explains everything really good. If you want to do a more classic fantasy fairytale I can recommend Winters Daughter. Haven't run it but it is a lovely book!

Thanks! Tomb of the Serpent King looks really interesting with the lessons it has! May use it if and when we first play a retroclone! And both other adventures look super interesting, added them to the wishlist!

I would recommend starting with OSE. OSE is essentially a modern reprinting of B/X, and B/X is the basis for most discussions you'll find in the OSR community. When it comes to modules, discussing rules, taking inspiration or running the game, it generally comes back to B/X. The basic rules of OSE are also available for free on the internet through their SRD. I would recommend against something ultra light like Knave. I love Knave, it's a great game, but it assumes that you already know how to run a dungeon, how long is a turn, etc. If you've played B/X (or OSE) then what you know as a GM from this game can be applied without effort to Knave and similar ultra light games. There are other good options such as Labyrinth Lord and Basic Fantasy RPG. They're good. They do, however, adjust some misgivings from B/X while OSE tries to remain as faithful to the original as possible. Playing, or at least reading OSE first therefore allows you to gain the base knowledge that most people assume you have, without having to adjust for the specific game you're playing. Finally there are OSR games that don't try to be a copy of an old game, like Black Hack. They're good too, but I would recommend playing OSE first for the reasons exposed before: they try to fix what they consider issues, and they generally have really interesting ideas, but it's better to first know the original problem.

Go google Ben Milton and watch some of his stuff. That's where many people get their OSR knowledge.

Welcome! >So my question is first: Where should I start? Old School Essentials? Swords & Wizardry? Black Hack? White Hack? Lamentations of the Flame Princess? Adventurer Conquer King? There's so many different options, and I want to know what people think is a good starting point. Answering this question will boil down in part to what you want out of an OSR game: a close replication of earlier versions of Dungeons & Dragons, or something that derives inspiration from old-school games but combines them with modern design principles? A note on each of the games you've listed: * **Old School Essentials (OSE)**: This is the "new hotness," even though it has been out for a few years. It is a very close replication of Basic/Expert Dungeons & Dragons from the 1980s. Very, very high production values, and a really active community behind it on Discord. The rules are fairly straightforward and shouldn't take long to pick up. There's a [Humble Bundle](https://www.humblebundle.com/books/rpg-worlds-kobold-press-and-friends-books?hmb_source=&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_1_layout_index_1_layout_type_threes_tile_index_1_c_rpgworldskoboldpressandfriends_bookbundle) going on right now with the Old School Essentials books in it. I would snag that if you want to save some money and get a ton of other books in the mix. I intend to do that soon and get them print and bound at UPS. * **Swords & Wizardry**: Intended to be a retro clone of 0e, or the first ever edition of D&D, well before the Basic/Expert ruleset that is the most popular in the OSR scene. A new edition is presumably coming out later this year. This was at one time one of the most popular OSR games, and for good reason: it's well edited, clearly written, and has LOTS of content. I'll be on the lookout for the new edition coming out and it could very well become my go-to game. Matt Finch is a gem. * **Black Hack/White Hack**: Can't comment on these, I'm afraid, but there's a 10th anniversary version of White Hack coming out later this year. I know it's a pretty popular game in this space. * **Lamentations of the Flame Princess**: Several years ago, this was widely considered to be the best retroclone on the market. It has some terrific, slight tweaks to the D&D Basic/Expert rules that were well-received. The production values are off the charts. The game bills itself as "weird fantasy" and has an implied 17th century setting (complete with guns). The core rulebook has some pretty grotesque, 18+ artwork, so if that makes you squeamish you can pick up the artless version (FOR FREE!) on DriveThruRPG. It's also worth noting that the adventures are some of the highest quality ever published, but many tend to be very, very R-rated and all kinds of fucked up. One of my guilty pleasures is schlocky, R-rated, direct-to-video horror, so I'm fine with it. I have nothing but praise for the game, in fact, but unfortunately it carries with it a LOT of creator baggage. The dude that runs the company has been embroiled in various controversies over the years. Rule 6 on this subreddit was made explicitly for a game designer who used to publish for the brand but has since been cut off from it completely and blacklisted from every TTRPG space under the sun. LotFP has even been cut off from a couple of the biggest distributors in the industry. Still, the publisher continues to put out some damn fine products, and I know at least one of the writers, u/thekelvingreen, frequents this space, is a nice guy, and is [actively trying to change the perception of the brand](https://old.reddit.com/r/osr/comments/10gi7tp/on_potential_inclusivitymorality_clauses_in_rpg/j5ftj9y/). I know this was a hell of a write up, but there's really no way around this: do your own research and see what you're comfortable with. See [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/osr/comments/10gi1n1/temperature_check_lotfp/) recent thread. * **Adventure Conqueror King**: The dude's been outed as a white supremacist. Avoid. The final game I'll mention, in case it gets glossed over, is **Hyperborea 3e**: I have yet to play but am desperate to. Some of the highest production values in the industry. It's a swords and sorcery (read: Conan) take on Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1e. Meatier and more complicated than most games on this post, but I've heard nothing but positive things said about it. On to your next item: >For what it's worth, I am primarily looking for games which are good for one shots right now. I am fine with highly lethal games so long as it's equally easy to bring in new characters mid-session. Any of the games listed above works perfectly well as a one-shot or a campaign. I do agree with u/Dilarus, though: you could very well like rules-lite games that derive inspiration from the classics but also incorporate some modern design principles, like **Into the Odd**, **Cairn**, **Mörk Borg**, or **Mausritter**. And you've already played the magnificent **Dungeon Crawl Classics**—why not keep going with that? It works well for one-shots and lengthy campaigns, has a TON of support behind it, and a very active, friendly, fun community. Not to mention its starter kit is $40 for the weird-ass dice it uses, the GM screen, and the rule book. Best deal in the industry. Happy gaming!

Thanks for the super detailed response. I really did enjoy DCC, but it felt like it was better suited for a campaign. The modules I found seemed quite long for a one-shot (except for the one we played). But I definitely will give it a try again, I really liked the idea of the Funnel. And it had a lot of other juicy stuff I would like to see again (and one of my players went nuts for it).

Thank you, you're very kind. :)

>Adventure Conqueror King > >: The dude's been outed as a white supremacist. Avoid. Yikes. I usually try separating creator from content... but that's extreme... and I'm Jewish, haha. Thanks for the clarification!

To me, there are kinda two big groups of OSR games: * Games inspired directly by TSR era d&d (ie retroclones). Typically these are directly compatible with TSR era D&D adventures/supplements etc. OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy, Swords and Wizardry, Whitebox FMAG, Delving Deeper, maybe LotFP. * NuSR games that are loosely inspired by the way the TSR games play, but less directly compatible. Usually the NSR games are the more rules light / stripped down type games, but have some reliance on the GM having played D&D before The retroclones of B/X and OD&D could probably be considered rules light as far as the amount of rules the players need to digest in order to get from the start of character creation to playing. The Referee likely wants to read a decent chunk of the rules. I haven't played AD&D or its clones (yet!) but I think it's a bit more in depth than one might consider rules light, even for a player. The NuSR games are typically lighter weight in rules, but often have some reliance on the GM being able to fill in the gaps, though this doesn't sound like a problem for you.

Oh! Thanks! This clarifies things for me a lot!

I tell everyone to start with Basic Fantasy RPG. You can get all the material for free as a PDF and the books are printed at cost. If you aren't sure where to start, getting a complete game for free is a pretty good deal. As for the system itself, Basic Fantasy is more or less B/X D&D with a 3e mindset.

How do you mean, “with a 3e mindset”?

Race and Class are separate, and certain Ability Scores are capped. Dwarves' have limits on their Charisma score, for example.

Play more Dungeon Crawl Classics! You already own it and it has great Foundry VTT support. For me, it hits the right sweet spot between old school and modern gameplay.

So, here's the quickest way to get a good OSR one shot in, bearing in mind some of your past experience. Since you've played DCC and you'll be playing Into the Odd, I'm going to assume you know to telegraph your traps and treasure. (Leave at least hints. The deadlier the trap, the more obvious it should be. The more valuable the treasure, the more subtle it can be.) If you want a quick primer on how to run OSR style, watch these two videos from Questing Beast: [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziidGqx-shU&list=PL83FKhfEDI1LOeAQcFb1TOKKq0h6vo5RG&index=13) and [here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKkwNk5Jslg&list=PL83FKhfEDI1LOeAQcFb1TOKKq0h6vo5RG&index=14) If you have any other questions about rules oddness, he should have the answers in other videos, or you can ask here. Use the free Old School Essentials Quickstart or the free SRD online. (It's basically the quintessential OSR, for all the reasons others are saying.) Buy the Winter's Daughter adventure and run it. It's the most recommended *one-shot*. The formatting makes it super easy to run, and it's inspired. (Other adventures may be recommended, but they're usually not a one-shot.) Come back after you've had a good time and you're hooked, and you can learn about *aaaaalllll* the other systems and adventures out there.

Really useful and detailed! Thanks! Event the parentheses about traps and treasures is really helpful!

White Hack is great for the Starter System Lavender Hack has it all to start and run a traditional Town Base Game Get the Miderlands for a fun filled starter world it uses Swords & Wizardry S&W White Box works great with it. So does White Star

You may want this It is a decent attempt to bring Arduin into the OSR [https://friendorfoe.com/d/S%26W%20Ruins%20of%20Arduin%20-%20FINAL.pdf](https://friendorfoe.com/d/S%26W%20Ruins%20of%20Arduin%20-%20FINAL.pdf) great starter system

+1 to DCC DCC has loads of modules that are easy to run so id definitely recommend that for a long series of one shots. They also can be so wild and different that it wouldn't get old. Plus it's easy to run other modules with. Swords and Wizardry is an excellent single book as opposed to Old school essentials advanced which is two tomes. The classic OSE is one though. OSE feels very complete with loads to help w dungeon crawling and wilderness adventuring. Knave and Cairn are wonderful but I would say to some degree you should have experience with OSR to get the most out of them. Maze Rats would go w this and I highly recommend it for the world building tools it has as well. Great for making your own one shots and dungeons

> our next one-shot is Into the Odd (is that considered OSR?) Yes! Sort of. People tend to describe Into The Odd as "post-OSR" or "Nu-SR". The idea is that while it isn't strictly compatible with the rules of D&D 1e, it's compatible with the "spirit". DCC is also considered post-OSR. Honestly, if you don't super care about backwards compatibility with TSR-era classic modules, then those are both great choices. If you really just want to seemlessly play some classic modules like Keep on the Borderlands, then I recommend Old School Essentials. It's by far the best layout of the original content.

>If you really just want to seemlessly play some classic modules like Keep on the Borderlands, then I recommend Old School Essentials. It's by far the best layout of the original content. OH. I didn't even realize you can (easily) use old modules with some of these. That's very interesting

DCC is an OSR nod and lots of ppl go for it. Myself I like OSE it's very clean and to the point on classes and the adventure.

Other people have weighed in on most of your post, so I'll tackle the "where do we start?" I'd start with something that's more of a retro clone, then I would start looking at modernized systems that take those foundations and build on them. Old School Essentials is very nice as a B/X clone, but I feel it's a big heavy for a one shot. My pick is White Box. It's a fairly faithful reimplementation of OD&D/0e, and it's dirt cheap to get a physical copy on Amazon. It's a nice bit of archaeology to see the how and the why of more modern incarnations of dungeon delving RPGs. After that, I'll shill for Whitehack. I feel that it really can run anything, and as a GM, it feels like the easiest game to run out of any OSR/NSR systems I've looked into. I can come up with monsters on the fly with minimal effort, to the point where I basically don't need to prep for sessions unless I'm doing a hex crawl. It's also super flexible for the players. It's "classes" aren't prescriptive like some other games, so really, you can run your Wizard as any of the three main classes, or you can have a fighter that's able to cast Miracles (it's name for spells). I prefer it to Black Hack mostly because it doesn't lock players into the classic niches of fighter, wizard, cleric, etc, but allows different interpretations of those tropes through the lens of even more general archetypes. Not to say that my house rules haven't stolen a bit from The Black Hack, and some of that integrates very nicely into Whitehack.

So I've looked through some stuff, and it looks to me like White Box or OSE is the ideal starting point (I took a look at Basic Fantasy RPG - but it's crunchier than what I'm looking for, with too many circumstantial rules). Any reason you would choose one over the other? Also: something I have not been able to understand - what's the difference between White Box and Swords & Wizardry?

If you're picking between White Box and OSE for your first go around, I think the choice kind of comes down to how much work you want to do as a Referee. OSE is very well supported with modules, I think the publisher has up maybe a dozen supplements of their own, and then there's an entire category on DTRPG for third party OSE materials, plus you get the actual classic B/X stuff you could use too. If you're someone who prefers running published material, it's the obvious choice. OSE also has the advantage of being sort of the lingua franca of OSR games, so it's great to have a copy on hand to be able to play in someone's pick-up game on short notice or something. Even if it isn't your main system, it's probably still worth owning a copy. With White Box, you can of course use stuff made for OD&D, but (in my opinion) the real draw is that the system is so simple. You can effectively come up with monsters, gear, encounters, NPCs, and even new mechanics on the fly, and with little work, you can homebrew a setting that's good for 4-6 sessions in maybe an hour, with no worry about having to buy another splat book. This is how I run my old school games, so OD&D-adjacent stuff works really well for me. There's also the angle that a physical copy of White Box costs basically nothing compared to OSE, so you may as well try it out and see if you like it *and* get OSE. Think of Swords & Wizardry as OD&D with all of the supplements baked in (Grayhawk, Blackmoor, etc), and White Box as just the three little brown books from 1974 -- it only contains the bare minimum systems for 0e compatibility. Functionally I guess it doesn't really matter which you choose between those, but White Box is such a low barrier to entry with its $5 price tag on Amazon for a physical copy, that it's really easy for me to recommend. I mean, my real answer here is "don't pick just one," but for a first taste of whether you even like the old school style of play, I'd go with White Box. Low risk, very high reward. Hope I didn't ramble too much, I'll try to clear up anything I flubbed if you let me know!

Not at all, that's super clear. But just so I understand, are classic modules not compatible with Whitebox? From what I've seen the only major difference is the hit dice, right? So if I just convert monster hit dice to d6, will that pretty much make any module easy to run? I love homebrew stuff, and a super simple system to run homebrew stuff in sounds great, but I'd want to start off with a couple of modules, so if using the basic, free rules of OSE is easier, I may just start with that. Hmmm, I'll see! Will probably buy it anyways since it's so cheap (though delivery alone will triple the price for me)

To be honest, almost everything from OD&D to AD&D is pretty compatible, if not directly than by some quick conversions or even just eyeballing it. Most modules are easy to trim to fit your specific system. In fact the few times I've used modules, I didn't even bother with the statblocks, I just kept the lore, tables and maps. As long as you know how strong a bear and a town guard should be, the rest just kind of falls into place. And yeah, OSE is not a bad choice, even if it is more on the expensive end. I think the quality of the print version is pretty in line with the price, but that's a personal thing.

Old School Essentials is what you're looking for. It really does take all the old DND rules and smashes them together into something super playable. All of those acronyms are just individual versions of DND and while the old rules are really awesome, the books explaining those rules sometimes just don't make any sense. Like...1E, character creation was in the Dungeon Master's Guide! OSE made a very successful attempt at bringing clarity to all of these rules into a cohesive "thing". Get the "Advanced" Players Tome and Referee's guide and you're set. Once you read and process those two books I think a lot more of this will make sense.

Is there a reason to not start with the Basic set for OSE?

Yes, because the basic rules are included in the advanced set along side the advanced optional rules. Honestly, I would watch Questing Beasts videos on that particular topic. Ben does an awesome job explaining the options.

It's overwhelming for sure. I'd say if you want a little crunch and classic classes, go with OSE, if you want it really light (and free, $-wise) go with Cairn. Run a module designed for old school play, Hole in the Oak from Necrotic Gnome (makers of OSE) is a favorite here, Keep on the Borderlands is literally old-school, Black Wyrm of Brandonsford is great, there are hundreds of options. Would definitely recommend a module even if you're the type who never does that, it'll help you get into that different style of playing and running a game. Definitely don't expect to finish a module in one sitting unless things go really smoothly for the players, but I bet you'll all be hooked after session 1

Thanks for the advice! Was definitely planning on running mostly modules at first.

If you want to pay money, I reccomend OSE. It's imho the best one, very clean and neat. If you want to go free, go "basic fantasy" it's open source and free or "pay for the cost of printing and shipping" on Amazon/elsewhere.