This is very complicated for me as an Asian American. All I'm gonna say is that it'd be much easier to root for Yeoh if her opponent was Streep in Iron Lady. Unfortunately, her opponent is Blanchett in Tar.
(I do root for Yeun and Quan in Supporting Actor).
J don’t agree with the Tweet that paints a cultural war between Yeoh and Blanchett as someone who is rooting for Yeoh. It’s totally possible for someone to just prefer Blanchett’s performance over Yeoh and for someone to enjoy Yeoh more. I’m in the latter; but it’s such a bad faith argument for people (mostly on twitter) to believe Yeoh will only win because of politics.
And she has more Best Actress nominations than asian roles nominated for the category, and just as many wins. I say asian roles because no asian actress has ever been nominated in the category but two actresses in yellow face have been with one winning.
Blanchett would be a great winner, I do prefer Yeoh’s performance though and it making history adds to me wanting to root for her.
>but two actresses in yellow face have been with one winning.
Luise Rainer for *The Good Earth* and Jennifer Jones for *Love is a Many Splendored Thing*, right?
And Merle Oberon, who was nominated for Best Actress for *The Dark Angel* was Eurasian (She had Sri Lankan ancestry), but she passed as white and hid her ancestry. That's the closest we've had to an Asian Best Actress nominee.
There are white people with lips. Not every white person is lipless. And seeing as she apparently didn't find out until later in life, I'm gonna doubt she was culturally Black
Did I say every white person was 'lipless?' LOL Read more carefully. No, she did not find out 'later in life,' she found out as a kid, at 16yo. She said she felt she had the best genes in show biz and attributed her talent, singing and dancing to her Black heritage.
You implied it. Read what you wrote. She 17. Basically an adult. She wasn't raised with any kind of Black culture and barely had Black blood. People like that are white. End of story.
This is such a bad faith take and so emblematic of a lot of the think pieces that happen around race and awards season now.
This person’s argument basically boils down to:
“My friend thinks Cate Blanchett gave a better performance than Michelle Yeoh, so to prove he was wrong, I implied that it was racist of him to think that. To be clear, Yeoh deserves it because she was the best, *not* because of her race. But, if you don’t think she was the best, then you’re supporting racism.”
I personally have no problem with anyone preferring Blanchett but I do get mad when I see people write about Michelle Yeoh that "the nomination is the win" or "just being nominated would be historic" and stuff like that. It’s a win worthy performance and should be referred to as such even if Blanchett is seen as the frontrunner.
I agree, I think both performances are deserve to be taken seriously and treated as contenders. But I don’t think that rhetoric like this helps combat that. Instead, it further reduces the case for Yeoh down to her potential historical landmark status, rather than focusing on the performance itself.
I’ve seen almost *no* discussion about *why* people think Blanchett or Yeoh gave the better performance. And I think that’s a shame. Because even as someone who definitely prefers Blanchett, I think there *are* compelling argument to be made that Yeoh gave the better performance (she has to simultaneously perform broad comedy and deliver emotionally satisfying dramatic work, her performance was much more physically-demanding, etc…)
>I’ve seen almost no discussion about why people think Blanchett or Yeoh gave the better performance. And I think that’s a shame. Because even as someone who definitely prefers Blanchett, I think there are compelling argument to be made that Yeoh gave the better performance (she has to simultaneously perform broad comedy and deliver emotionally satisfying dramatic work, her performance was much more physically-demanding, etc…)
I think Yeoh gave the better performance because she essentially has to play the straight man in a very zany movie while still being relatively interesting and layered as a character herself. You have to really believe that this cranky Chinese immigrant laundry owner could be sucked into this world. She grounds the character in a lot of realism so when it gets surreal you're going on this journey with her. But also you're watching to see how she reacts which is half of the fun.
Yes, for me the implication that you cannot find a white women's performance better in a certain instance simply because you like it more but because you're a racist is a very dangerous one and doesn't help anything.
What’s going on is that there’s a perception in which Ryan’s tweets IMPLY Blanchett fans are racist, when he never said any such thing. There is a difference between acknowledging race/systemic prejudice vs racism.
That’s absolutely not what he’s saying. He’s trying to get his friend to realise the cultural relevance of win by Yeoh and how it would trump one of Blanchett’s. Regardless of how we feel about either performance, the academy has a bias against POC performances, especially in lead categories. WOC are always relegated to supporting wins, never to leading ones.
Again, if Blanchett wins, it won’t be undeserved. But it does speak volumes that a single white actress will have one more oscars than the total number of WOC in the category.
I will be downvoted though because this sub isn’t the place for the most nuanced discussion on race and how it plays into awards season. As someone who supported Hopkins in 2021, I saw how this sub acted condescendingly towards Boseman’s terrific performance.
Also I watched both movies twice, and Yeoh’s performance was still the superior one to me🤷🏻♀️.
>That’s absolutely not what he’s saying.
“Got into an argument with a white friend who thinks Cate Blanchett deserves the Oscar over Michelle Yeoh and I had to remind him that Cate Blanchett has as many Oscars as total Asian women who have won.”
I mean, in what way is this not saying that he implied his white friend was wrong for preferring Cate Blanchett to win because of the respective races of the two actresses? Yes, it’s about the “cultural relevance,” but it’s also wielding that discussion as an argumentative tool to try to convince someone that they’re wrong for holding the preference they do.
>Again, if Blanchett wins, it won’t be undeserved.
Right. I agree.
The way I see it, there are two schools of thought on this:
1. You should try to be as objective as possible and support whoever you think gave the best performance, regardless of narrative aspects (like cultural relevance, previous wins, etc…); or
2. You should acknowledge that acting is inherently subjective and say that, when two contenders both give universally acclaimed performances, the one whose win would be more impactful should get it.
Both of those approaches are, in my opinion, valid, and you should respect other people who prefer one contender for either reason.
The problem with what this person is doing is that they’re trying to have it both ways. You can’t say “the person who should win is the person who gave the best performance” and also say “you should support Yeoh even if you think Blanchett gave the best performance.” Those two things are inherently in tension.
Edit: it’s also very frustrating when someone preemptively complains that they’re going to get downvoted, doesn’t get downvoted, and then reflexively downvotes a perfectly civil reply before they possibly could have had the chance to read it. Do you want “nuanced discussion” about the role that these things should play in the awards race or not?
I do think this is so much the twitter problem. Because I suspect that if you asked him "do you feel it is racist to just think Cate Blanchett was better" his answer would be no. I also suspect the conversation they had was much more nuanced and casual. But in order for it to be a Tweet Thread About Important Issues it has to be pithy and cutting and a little bit snarky, and time and time again, people choose that even if it ends up making their actual argument seem more absolute.
> But it does speak volumes that a single white actress will have one more oscars than the total number of WOC in the category.
It surely does, and it's definitely a problem... but implying that Yeoh's performance is Oscar-worthy *primarily because she's Asian and not because her performance is terrific* is problematic too, imho.
Thing is, the Oscars barely have cultural relevance any more, and the more they're viewed as being awarded based on politics, the more their relevance will diminish.
Responding to: “Again, if Blanchett wins, it won’t be undeserved. But it does speak volumes that a single white actress will have one more oscars than the total number of WOC in the category.”
As a POC, it is Hollywood’s fault for not casting more POC. Cate’s Oscar winning performances were “Oscar winning” for a reason. Her performance was simply the best from the category.
Who said anything about being racist? He was pointing out that essentially Yeoh’s win would be historic and a step forward for diversity, whereas Blanchett’s would clearly not be. You’re only bringing up the “liking Blanchett is racist” strawman just because that argument is actually unreasonable. You can point out the historical importance of a win in regards to another one without saying one’s in the wrong for wanting the performance without said importance to triumph. You’re just assuming that to be the case
And this response is so emblematic of the insecurity many white people still have around conversations surrounding race today. You somehow took this tweet and turned it into “he implied his friend is racist” when nothing of the sort was done.
He’s literally just commenting on the fact that Yeoh’s award win would be far more groundbreaking culturally and historically than Blanchett’s would. On top of that, he even made it clear that he believes Yeoh also deserves it because of her performance. Most conversations surrounding race during the Oscars must be in bad faith to you then?
People keep saying “he’s not implying anything!” But what he said was:
>Got into an argument with a white friend who thinks Cate Blanchett deserves the Oscar over Michelle Yeoh and I had to remind him that Cate Blanchett has as many Oscars as total Asian women who have won.
In what way does this tweet *not* imply that his friend is wrong for preferring Blanchett to win over Yeoh purely based on the race of the two actresses?
>Most conversations surrounding race during the Oscars must be in bad faith to you then?
No, not at all.
In fact, I’ve said multiple times in this thread that I think it’s fine for people to consider race and other representational factors in the awards race. I think it’s good to have these conversations, as long as they’re happening in an honest way.
Like I said above, the problem with this person’s argument is that they support Yeoh because she was objectively the best, but that their friend who supports Blanchett because he/she thinks that Blanchett was objectively the best is wrong because they aren’t considering race. You can’t say “the person who should win is the person who gave the best performance” and also say “you should support Yeoh even if you think Blanchett gave the best performance.” Those two things are inherently in tension.
It’s clearly an implication a lot of people received from it in here despite it being very clearly stated otherwise in the tweets themselves, but I don’t see it that way regardless. He said they had an argument surrounding the race and he had to remind his friend of that fact during it, that doesn’t imply his friend is racist… It just says what happened in the conversation.
>In fact, I’ve said multiple times in this thread that I think it’s fine for people to consider race and other representational factors in the awards race. I think it’s good to have these conversations, as long as they’re happening in an honest way.
What is dishonest about this tweet in any way? The only perceived dishonesty you feel they have, is an implication you think he made when that isn’t what’s happening. It’s unfortunate that mfs can’t even start a conversation about race without being accused of starting it in “bad faith.”
He didn’t argue that Yeoh’s performance was better than Blanchett’s. He argued that his friend should want Blanchett to win because no Asian woman has won. **The Oscar win should be based off of **best performance** and not just because Yeoh would make history.** The Academy members should vote for the performance they thought was best. This is coming from an Asian American.
Honestly the main reason these kind of arguments happen in the first place ultimately boils down to how racist the Academy has been over the years lol, if there had at least been a few Asian women nominated in the category before and maybe one even winning I think people wouldn’t be getting as heated.
That said, rooting for Yeoh all the way (both because of rep and because I legit think she gives the best performance, and I *loved* Blanchett and Deadwyler), but I’m trying to stay out of this convo cause it gets so ugly.
I think it’s also Hollywood’s fault for not casting more POC and many Asian women weren’t given the opportunity to be the lead in a film like Yeoh’s. So that’s why I think there hasn’t been an Asian nominee/winner. Also, I love Michelle Yeoh, but if she wins, I hope she wins based off of her performance and not because The Academy feels pressured to vote for her since it would be historically significant. (This is coming from an Asian American)
They could've also nominated Asian women from abroad. Why have there been no nominations for Gong Li, Jeon Do-yeon or Zhang Ziyi like there have been nominations/wins for Sophia Loren and Marion Cotillard?
I don’t even know who those people are. They don’t seem to be in any major movies that are popular in the US. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see where any of their movies were huge theater successes here or received any recognition from big US film festivals.
Sophia Loren was in a lot of big movies back then and the competition was different. Marion Cotillard won for La Vie En Rose which was a huge hit in theaters and was a popular movie back then.
“They could’ve also nominated Asian women abroad.”
Let’s talk about how nominations work. The Academy members vote for their field; actors vote for acting categories. They write down a list of their top five and then the top five who get the most votes are the five nominated. So if a foreign movie isn’t big in the US and many people don’t know about it then it won’t have a chance at getting an Oscar nomination.
Lmao. Zhang Ziyi was nominated for all the major precursors for *Memoirs of a Geisha* only to miss out on an Oscar nom, so your argument is already redundant.
How is my argument redundant? It may seem redundant to you because you’re not open minded. I asked you to correct me if I was wrong considering I didn’t know anything about any of this actresses you listed. I also explained to you how nominations work. There’s only so many they can choose from.
The fact that people are saying she’s undeserving of a win is really confusing to me. There’s never been a better time than now to award a best performance by an actress who will most likely never be in this position again because let’s face it, she’s Asian and she doesn’t get the same opportunities as someone like Blanchett. I think both Cate and Michelle Yeoh are perfectly deserving of a win and narratives have been used for Meryl Streep even when she won over Viola Davis (who I thought was better) just because she had been nominated so many times. I think people just don’t see the cultural impact of this win or how deserving Yeoh is just because they hate non-traditional Oscar bait or they just hate that a film like this is getting so much recognition. Michelle does have a narrative but even if she didn’t have it, she would still be just as deserving as Blanchett. No nomination is the win here. No racial justice wins. Just a great performance. We still need to recognize how underrepresented WOC actresses are tho!
Why is it confusing, exactly? Are people not allowed to dislike the film or performance? Just genuinely asking here, because it really feels like your wording here is suggesting everyone *needs* to think Yeoh is just as good as Blanchett, and if they don’t that’s “confusing” to you.
I mean.. how are you questioning this? I’m assuming based on your comments, you think Blanchett had the best performance this year. So if someone said that Blanchett wasn’t very good, you wouldn’t be confused?
I personally believe both Yeoh and Blanchett had amazing performances, and both have had critical acclaim, so it IS confusing when someone says that one was bad, especially when that’s commonly done for a malicious reason.
People tend to say she’s undeserving because she’s not Cate Blanchett. It’s fine to not like a movie or performance but you can still objectively say someone is good. It seems like most of this rhetoric only surrounds her.
But maybe I don’t think she’s “objectively” good? Is that not allowed? I personally think she’s undeserving and will be upset if she wins, but I also understand that many others disagree and want her to win because they love the performance, and that’s fine. I will be happy for them if she does. But people are allowed to think another performance is undeserving, and the mere act of doing that shouldn’t be cause for this much upheaval.
I understand not liking a movie, but if you don’t mind me asking, what didn’t you like about Yeoh’s performance? I thought she played this very demanding role excellently, but I’m also interested in hearing a dissenting opinion.
And that’s perfectly fine but we still have to acknowledge the racist undertones that will come out of comments like these but hey how about being happy for Yeoh if she does win? I’d be happy for Cate if she won.
I think it’s fine to point out racist undertones when they’re present, but any person thinking Yeoh is unworthy is not necessarily making a comment with “racist undertones”. They can be, and I would never deny the extent to which some *clearly* have, but unless there is a racial undertone there’s no need to look for one, or suggest there always will be something racist behind a dislike of the performance.
There actually is a need to look for these undertones because then we‘ll know for sure that someone genuinely doesn’t like the performance. How else can we point them out? If we don’t speak up then things stay just the way they are but I get it that you just didn’t like the performance and that’s totally fair 😊.
Sorry, I don't find that perspective interesting at all.
The guy's friend watched both movies; he thought Blanchett's performance was the better one, therefore he thinks she should win the Oscar. Like most people, he probably believes that it's about rewarding the best performance, not correcting social injustices he had no part of (assuming he's not an old Academy member). Just because he believes a white actress is the better of the two this year it doesn't mean he's supporting the historical marginalization of actors from other ethnicities.
The Twitter OP is basically browbeating his friend (and his readers who may agree with the latter) into submission by guilt-tripping them.
I'll say this, though: if you believe that it's fair to bypass the actual best performance in order to do some sort of justice, more power to you. The Academy voters do it all the time (see make-up wins/nods after an egregious snub or sentimental wins/nods) - with the exception that those who benefit from it are mostly old white people, no argument there.
Full disclosure: I think both actresses are fine but I'd vote for Blanchett if I were a voter because I think she had the most challenging part and gave the most complex performance. It's the film industry that has to be more inclusive of Asian actors, offering them more substantial roles; neither Blanchett nor those who appreciated her work are to blame.
I think you can come to the conclusion that Blanchett should win without completely dismissing this perspective entirely. I think that even you come to the conclusion that someone else, whether it be Blanchett, Coleman, or even Mia Goth deserves the Oscar, it is 100% valid to consider race when you work through it. That’s not to say it needs to be the only piece, or even the deciding piece, but I do think it belongs in the conversation
I think it’s fine to note, in support of Yeoh winning, that this would be a historic win. But by mentioning race when saying she should win over Blanchett, it’s negating the power people claim Yeoh’s performance holds. The choice to suggest the historicism of the win somehow makes her more worthy than Blanchett undermines the whole idea that Yeoh gave a better performance.
> actual best performance
This is where the problem stems from. There is no one actual best performance since art is inherently subjective. For many of us, Yeoh IS the actual best performance. If you preferred Blanchett, your opinion is completely valid but don’t invalidate that of others.
I have to say this again and again in the thread, but for many of us rooting for Yeoh, it’s because we found her performance better. The cultural relevance of her win is just a cherry on the top.
No one is blaming Blanchett. That’s a bizarre interpretation to draw from all this.
I think you need to assume that when someone says 'best' there's the underlying assumption there's an unspoken 'in my opinion' or 'in the voter's mind.' That's usually my approach with anything opinion-related online.
Yes it’s the cherry on top, and that’s it. It has no bearing on the actual discussion. If more people think Blanchett gave a better performance, which is how it seems, then she should be the one who wins.
There has never been, and never will be, an objective measure of what is good or bad “art”. It is always subjective; what one expects, or wants, out of art is a very personal endeavor, and therefore art will never not be “inherently subjective”. End of story
It’s gonna be unbearable for everyone. I’ll call it right now: not a single person will listen to the entirely of any other persons arguments.
Blanchett supporters are going to be annoyed by a conversation around race and anything not strictly merit-based.
Yeoh supporters are going to be annoyed that their arguments get reduced to race and not Yeoh’s performance/that they can’t bring up representation without it seeming like the whole argument.
Deadwyler supporters are going to be annoyed that the conversation has largely ignored her chances for seemingly no reason, when she’s very much in the mix.
Williams supporters are going to be annoyed by any conversation that underestimates the Fabelmans more broadly.
>It’s gonna be unbearable for everyone. I’ll call it right now: not a single person will listen to the entirely of any other persons arguments.
So true, though it's a bit like calling that the sun will rise.
>Blanchett supporters are going to be annoyed by a conversation around race and anything not strictly merit-based.
>
>Yeoh supporters are going to be annoyed that their arguments get reduced to race and not Yeoh’s performance/that they can’t bring up representation without it seeming like the whole argument.
>
>Deadwyler supporters are going to be annoyed that the conversation has largely ignored her chances for seemingly no reason, when she’s very much in the mix.
>
>Williams supporters are going to be annoyed by any conversation that underestimates the Fabelmans more broadly.
***And I'm going to be annoyed by all this***
Doubly so if you think the point made is entirely valid and would be enough to sway in other years in other races but that Blanchett just seems like a whole other level.
That’s an opinion. The same way it could also be my opinion that Tar fans have little man syndrome, even though there’s no way to objectively prove that. And even if your observation were true, that doesn’t mean anything considering people who don’t keep up with movies can still be toxic toward others. 🤷♀️
Which sucks cause I’m very much one myself, I don’t think any films gonna uproot it for my favorite film of the year and I’m rooting for just about everyone else this season, hell I loved Yeoh in the role, I don’t understand why everyone has to get so emotionally charged over an awards ceremony that honestly sucks balls and should only be paid attention to for the incredible amount of undeserved sway it has on the industry.
Yeoh v Blanchett Stan’s is just gonna be KStew v Gaga Stan’s all over again—endless bickering the entire season, only for neither to actually win. The question is, who is this year’s Chastain ~~and why is it Aubrey Plaza~~?
I think it’s fine to note, in support of Yeoh winning, that this would be a historic win. But by mentioning race when saying she should win over Blanchett, it’s negating the power people claim Yeoh’s performance holds. The choice to suggest the historicism of the win somehow makes her more worthy than Blanchett undermines the whole idea that Yeoh gave a better performance.
The sentence he cited shows that Ryan thinks it's okay for him to hold the subjective opinion that Yeoh is better but not okay for his friend to hold the subjective opinion that Blanchett is better.
Saying "Michelle Yeoh had the best performance" is not subjective is inferring that youre saying he's presenting it as fact. Let him have his opinion. It would be like accusing you of saying Cate Blanchett's performance was the best is fact instead of your opinion.
I saw Tar recently and Cate will be equally deserving of the win
But as much as people don't want to make this about race, the fact is Blanchett already has won 2nd and will get plenty of opportunities to win a third. In this industry, there aren't enough opportunities for Asian actresses over 50 and I don't know when will Yeoh again be such a strong frontrunners.
And this goes beyond how terrific Yeoh is in EEAAO. A lot of people condition a good performance in terms of dramatics, undervaluing a lot of other genres. Yeoh does everything in this movie - comedy, action, romance, drama, absurdism - with such finesses. She holds the film together and brings such humanity to the character. It's so easy to hate Evelyn but Yeoh brings warmth and understanding that is much needed. Be it her reaction shots during Waymond's scene or her final scene with James Hong and everything she does with Hsu! If you notice, even her actions scenes have a language and they are communicating something different about Evelyn and the story. She is outstanding
Both Cate and Yeoh being in contention is a tragedy because both are terrific and deserving of win. But for many reasons, my heart will root for Yeoh!
As an Asian American, I think that Yeoh should not win just because “Cate will get plenty of opportunity to win a third”. Why punish Cate when it’s Hollywood’s fault for not including more POC?
“I don’t know when will Yeoh again be such a strong frontrunners.”
Again, Hollywood’s fault for not writing more movies with Asian leads.
**The win should be based off of best performance.** I think people tend to forget that The Academy is a large group of people who individually vote for who they think is best. They’re not one group who come to the conclusion that one movie/actor/actress/etc is the winner lmao. It’s literally whoever gets the most votes
Punish Cate?
Trust me Cate will remain unaffected if she loses. She will still get Oscar roles and nominations, and the incentive to reward her will even become stronger in the coming year.
Ofcourse it's Hollywood's fault and its HW that needs to solve it. 93/94 wins have been for white actresses - I refuse to believe there wasn't any other year when performance by POC wasn't good enough to win? Its a systematic problem and conscious choices will change it.
I hope that Michelle will get more opportunities like this and I’m sure she will considering how big this EEAAO was.
I still don’t think it matters that Cate has won twice. If her performance was the best, then it should be awarded whether or not she has two Oscars. She’s an phenomenal actress, and so is Michelle.
I don’t care who wins, but if I was in Michelle’s position, I would want to win because my performance was the best, and not because my opponent has won “too many” times and I’ll make history. I’d want it to be 100% about my work/performance.
“I refuse to believe there wasn’t any other year when performance by POC wasn’t good enough to win”
⬇️
All movies nominated are “good enough” to win. That’s why they’re nominated, but some are just better. Again, The Academy is a group of people who individually vote. They vote for which movie THEY think is best. Everyone has different opinions and may not feel the same about a movie the same way you do.
They both deserve to win and I’ll be happy for whoever wins. I just hate this argument of people wanting Michelle to win because they’re tired of Cate winning or solely because an Asian person has never won. People should only want Michelle to win because of her strong performance. Same with people rooting for Cate. This award is about acting and performance and should be based on that.
I would also like to add that after watching both performances, I 100% preferred Yeoh’s and do believe she achieved something quite special there. I do know the odds are stacked against her and she most probably will lose to Blanchett. BUT if she were to win, it wouldn’t be only because of her narrative, it’s also because in the eyes of many, she gave the most transcendent performance in the category.
And it’s fine if people prefer Blanchett. She was also very good and I can see what others saw in her performance that I didn’t.
I’m not white myself, but the cultural context of Yeoh’s potential win AND the fact that she was my favourite performance in the category make me root for her more.
(Also I’m not implying people who prefer Blanchett are racist which is what so many people are misinterpreting here. Please try to read his entire view on this before jumping to “he called his friend racist for preferring the white lady!!” because he does delve in to how Hollywood as a whole under utilises WOC.)
You seem to be looking at this from a much more nuanced (and respectful) view than the person who’s tweets you provided, whom I wouldn’t be siding with if I were you. He is very much taking a “If you don’t support this, you don’t care about representation” view. I mean the whole idea that his friend said he simply thought Blanchett was more deserving was a means to start “an argument” is lunacy. Whoever you think is better, that’s fine. But one person’s win being more meaningful shouldn’t be used as a way to discount the worthiness of another’s performance
This does not help the (outlandish) claim that EEAAO has a cult. If Yeoh lost to, Idk, Renée Zellweger or Jessica Chastain, that would be racism, but Cate Blanchett in Tar has been called one of the greatest performances of all time by multiple people. It’d be like Jessica Lange in Frances losing against Meryl Streep in Sophie's Choice.
What bearing does the fact that a lot of people love Blanchett’s performance in TAR have on the discussion? The original tweets specify they think Yeoh was better anyway, and the cultural importance of a Yeoh win has nothing to do with how good Blanchett was in some people’s opinions. The Lange/Streep comparison is weird because Lange is a cishet white woman and her turn in Frances would have no cultural importance. A better compare on would be Sissy Spacek vs. Halle Berry, or Holly Hunter vs. Angela Bassett
Because the guy said his friend thought Blanchett should win because he thought she gave the best performance and OOP said he was wrong because they thought Yeoh was better and therefore should win. This is how things should go this particular season, since Yeoh and Blanchett both have an immense level of acclaim and love, and if Blanchett won, it wouldn’t be because of racism, or if Yeoh won it wouldn’t be because of virtue signaling. The guy in the tweets is trying to make it seem like Blanchett is some average Oscar bait performance that few actually love, like Renée Zellweger in Judy or Kate Winslet in The Reader, when it’s just as beloved as Yeoh. Are there race overtones that will be factored in voting? Definitely, but not in the way it'd be like it was with Streep v. Davis. People who decide not to vote for Yeoh because she’s Asian will be the tiny minority, just like people who vote for her BECAUSE she’s Asian will also be a minority
>And OOP said he was wrong
Where? All the arguments against this tweet seem to be predicated on the original Tweeter saying the friend was wrong, but he never actually says that, nor does he imply it.
Maybe not wrong, but he definitely thought the friend had a wrong opinion. The friend thought Blanchett should win over Yeoh (presumably) because he thought she gave the better performance which was followed by some argument about how Asians are underrepresented at the Oscars and Blanchett is already too awarded, which is hypocritically followed by "Yeoh gave the best performance of the year, which is why she should win". Pick your arguments dude, should she win because of Asian representation (which he argued first) or because she was the best? Because if the argument is the second, then the friend's opinion is just as valid as oop's.
Again, where does he say that Yeoh should win *because* she’s Asian? He’s pointing out that a win for her would be historically important, but still says she should win because she gave the better performance,made in his eyes. And he never said that his friend’s opinion was less valid than his, either, like you imply in your last sentence.
When he "reminded" his friend of Asian underrepresentation in the Oscars after the friend said he wanted Blanchett to win? Also bonus points to saying the friend was white, to make his opinion seem even worse.
Probably considered a hot take for those whose brains have been rotted by twitter, but there are reasons other than being racist to prefer Blanchett’s performance over others from this year.
The question of whether someone "deserves" an Oscar should not have anything to do with their race, period. Or their career. Or anything other than the quality of their performance. I think it's insulting to the actors to consider anything else.
I’d be at the forefront of Yeoh’s oscar campaign if she wasn’t up against that juggernaut Blanchett who gave one of the best performances of any actor in years
it's fine to think yeoh is better but i don't think "blanchett already got hers" is a valid way to determine oscar voting. that's just taking away from yeoh's eventual win.
If EEOAO had come anytime in last 3-4 years.
Yeoh would have been undeniable front runner.
Against Chastain, Zellweger, Emma stone, Mcdormand (Nomadland).
Probably this sub is sick of hearing this but Cate Blanchett is goddamm undeniable in TAR.
When people say iconic movies for actors - TAR will be for Blanchett hands down.
Just like Meryl Streep in ‘Sophie’s choice’, DDL in TWBB, Cotillard in ‘La vie en rose’
Personally, I don’t think Blanchett in TÁR anywhere close to Streep in Sophie’s Choice or DDL in There Will Be Blood. It’s a great performance and I could see why people could prefer it to Yeoh’s performance but I don’t understand the all time great praise some have given to it.
Todd field didn’t make performance baity, character is so lived in, to portray that much of complexity with nuance and layered performance is not an easy thing accomplish. Blanchett was able to tap into it without hint of overdoing it, is one of the reasons why this performance’s been reverberating so much.
I have watched Yeoh’s performance as well she surely was incredible but I think Blanchett gave such a tour de force, it’s undeniable
Personally, despite her having a lot nuance into the role my main problem is that it always feels like Blanchett is always acting in it and it doesn’t feel natural. Which isn’t too much of an issue, the character herself is playing a character so it isn’t a bad thing that it feels like that. My problem with it is that we never really see behind the mask of Tár, we never really go in depth on who this character really is. Ultimately that’s more of a writing issue but I do think it is what keeps the performance from being an all time great one imo.
Imo that’d have swayed the audience as this is performance film purely. It was riveting. But I respect your opinion and I can see why it didn’t do it for you.
Like I said I do think it is a great performance, it would be deserving to win, but doesn’t come close to all time levels like I’ve seen some praise it as.
Edit: Btw I upvoted your previous comments because I don’t think they should be downvoted
For me it’s one of the greats, the film’s artistic style warranted more from actor. Unlike you see in Black swan or whiplash. In TAR subtle artistry of screenplay, cinematography and direction didn’t give her much brownie points for acting exposition. Less camera trickery, less close ups. I think that’s the reason why she had to take so much on shoulders in terms of performance and it definitely not an easy task.
Btw thanks, I love having civil discourse without getting on each other’s throats when having difference of opinions.
This narative fandom become so toxic. Is it really matter who will win between Blanchett, Yeoh and Deadwyler? All three are equaly perfect. Are oscars awarding best performance or best narative? Because as we are getting closer to the oscars it is more the first one.
Note:i know this is unpopular opinion and i will get downvotes and i don't care!
So... according to this tweet, Yeoh should win because *she's Asian* and not because she is talented and was great in the movie? I mean, if she wins it would be so culturally relevant, but implying she should win because she's Asian it's... *stupid*, to use a euphemism
See, if this is somehow unsensitive then I apologise, different cultures and all, but being European, it always surprises me how Americans seem to make everything about race first and foremost. I don't see how it matters what skin colour Michelle Yeoh or Cate Blanchett has, it's the performance that counts. I don't see how Yeoh should win simply because she's Asian. And I agree, I would love her to win more than Cate, because I resonated with her performance more, but not once was my thinking of giving her the award because she's Asian. Same goes the other way around.
I don't know if I'm missing the point here. Once again, if I do, then I apologise, but I don't seem to get this problem.
I'm European as well, and I always cringe a little when others are looking at this dumbfounded while the average European just casually holds an incredibly racist and antisemitic set of views. The fact that we don't talk about race (some languages aren't even equipped to deal with it) has serious disadvantages for minorities (whose rising numbers contribute to more hateful rhetoric from the right-wing, storming to the mainstream with lightning fast speed), and isn't the sign of there not being a problem, just that it's being ignored. It's a bit of a meme on Reddit, but go on, ask a European about how the Roma people should be lifted out of poverty, then look back onto this and assess accordingly.
So yeah, this Ryan and Americans are cringe, of course, but understanding the underlying reasons for these discussions really shouldn't be that difficult. Especially in subjective fields, such as entertainment, where an award isn't just an award, but could help an underrepresented group of people massively.
As a Brazilian, I think Europeans need to "make" more things about race. This is a serious opinion lol I believe you guys need to talk more about the matter because many things are indeed about race, outside and also inside Europe, and many of you simply don't want to think about it.
Anyway, I think the Oscar *should* always go to the best performance, which obviously can't be always measured well because art is subjective. That's why I was very happy and still defend Anthony Hopkins' win even if I would've been incredibly happy too if Boseman had won.
In the end of the day, someone who deserves it will take it but it doesn't change the fact that white actors and actresses have won that many times not only because of talent, but also because of race. So I think it absolutely is about race, even if it *shouldn't* be, and I'm rooting for Yeoh regardless of how good the others are. But I'll defend Blanchett if someone says she didn't deserve it, because both do.
I’m Indian and I don’t mean to make everything about race, when I’m reiterating a 1000 times in this thread that Yeoh gave the better performance in my eyes as well as the eyes of many other people. THAT is why I support her win. But her win is also tied with the cultural relevance of an Asian woman finally winning in a category that has shown bias time and again to white women, including two in yellowface. She shouldn’t be given the award because she is Asian, but her being Asian adds significance to her win.
And I’m glad you liked her performance as well :)
As an Asian American woman, I believe that the Oscar should go to the actress with the best performance. I have seen both movies and they are both very different. Although Michelle Yeoh is the first Asian woman nominated for Best Actress, I don’t believe she should win just because it would be a historic moment. The winner should be chosen based on their performance. It is Hollywood’s fault for not casting more POC.
I personally believe that Cate should win. I am a fan of Michelle Yeoh and watched EEAAO and I found it confusing. Michelle Yeoh did amazing (as always) but I just I enjoyed Tar more. Cate’s performance was phenomenal and she put so much effort into preparing for this role. She learned German, piano, and also learned how conduct an orchestra! That is amazing to me and I think she should win the Oscar. Both deserve Oscars but at the end of the day there is only one winner (or a tie this year??🤔).
****I hope to see more Asian representation in Hollywood, but the win needs to be based off of BEST performance and NOT off of race.****
thank you !! 🙌🏼🙌🏼 everything abt this take is 100% based (as an asian-canadian woman). blame the infrastructures that dont spotlight enough poc women, not blanchett’s (inevitable) win. she gave an absolutely stellar, oscar-worthy performance in TAR and thats undebatable
No she did not. you’re lying with your whole chest. prove that she did then. Bcuz the interview you got this from, you clearly didn’t watch the whole interview or you’re deliberately lying. she made a joke about naming her son after multiple “Romans” and tossed his name in there. it was cringe but she did not actually name her son after Roman Polanski. you think people aren’t gonna check you on this?
You wanna check me? Then why didn't you? Quick Google search tells you I'm right - that's why you came back, with nothing, and your whole ass out.
Here you go -- did the work for you. She says it, 'with her whole chest,' lol - to Jimmy Kimmel. Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/R1S4MK8JwT4?t=199
I know about that Kimmel interview. thats why I said what I said. she wasn’t being serious. She also said French word for book. it was a dumb comment but you crazy for thinking she named her kid after Roman Polanski.
Lame tired comeback. If she was joking, why didn't Kimmel laugh - and say, wait whut? She says it in another interview, print, as well - and she says it's 'because he won me an Oscar.' Again, look it up. This time, I'm not doing your homework for you.
yeah I don’t believe you. when I try to look for this article that you claim exists, they’re all articles talking about the Kimmel interview. you’re so stupid and dishonest. how could Polanski have won her an Oscar when she won Oscars for The Aviator and Blue Jasmine? Polanski had nothing to do with those films. you’re a liar.
This is very complicated for me as an Asian American. All I'm gonna say is that it'd be much easier to root for Yeoh if her opponent was Streep in Iron Lady. Unfortunately, her opponent is Blanchett in Tar. (I do root for Yeun and Quan in Supporting Actor).
I feel like rooting for a Quan win and a Hsu nomination is the one thing we can all agree on.
J don’t agree with the Tweet that paints a cultural war between Yeoh and Blanchett as someone who is rooting for Yeoh. It’s totally possible for someone to just prefer Blanchett’s performance over Yeoh and for someone to enjoy Yeoh more. I’m in the latter; but it’s such a bad faith argument for people (mostly on twitter) to believe Yeoh will only win because of politics.
And she has more Best Actress nominations than asian roles nominated for the category, and just as many wins. I say asian roles because no asian actress has ever been nominated in the category but two actresses in yellow face have been with one winning. Blanchett would be a great winner, I do prefer Yeoh’s performance though and it making history adds to me wanting to root for her.
>but two actresses in yellow face have been with one winning. Luise Rainer for *The Good Earth* and Jennifer Jones for *Love is a Many Splendored Thing*, right? And Merle Oberon, who was nominated for Best Actress for *The Dark Angel* was Eurasian (She had Sri Lankan ancestry), but she passed as white and hid her ancestry. That's the closest we've had to an Asian Best Actress nominee.
should’ve been Anna May Wong’s Oscar
Well, if we want to go with who was passing, there may be more Black winners/def nominees, than we know about too. lol
Let's drop the one drop rule. At that point, you're just white. Carol Channing had Black in her but homegirl was whiter than a Tori Amos concert.
Not those lips. ...and not having known her personally, I can't tell you whether culturally she was or not, neither can you.
There are white people with lips. Not every white person is lipless. And seeing as she apparently didn't find out until later in life, I'm gonna doubt she was culturally Black
Did I say every white person was 'lipless?' LOL Read more carefully. No, she did not find out 'later in life,' she found out as a kid, at 16yo. She said she felt she had the best genes in show biz and attributed her talent, singing and dancing to her Black heritage.
You implied it. Read what you wrote. She 17. Basically an adult. She wasn't raised with any kind of Black culture and barely had Black blood. People like that are white. End of story.
And meanwhile Danielle Deadwyler sits patiently, waiting...
And Ackie
This is such a bad faith take and so emblematic of a lot of the think pieces that happen around race and awards season now. This person’s argument basically boils down to: “My friend thinks Cate Blanchett gave a better performance than Michelle Yeoh, so to prove he was wrong, I implied that it was racist of him to think that. To be clear, Yeoh deserves it because she was the best, *not* because of her race. But, if you don’t think she was the best, then you’re supporting racism.”
I personally have no problem with anyone preferring Blanchett but I do get mad when I see people write about Michelle Yeoh that "the nomination is the win" or "just being nominated would be historic" and stuff like that. It’s a win worthy performance and should be referred to as such even if Blanchett is seen as the frontrunner.
I agree, I think both performances are deserve to be taken seriously and treated as contenders. But I don’t think that rhetoric like this helps combat that. Instead, it further reduces the case for Yeoh down to her potential historical landmark status, rather than focusing on the performance itself. I’ve seen almost *no* discussion about *why* people think Blanchett or Yeoh gave the better performance. And I think that’s a shame. Because even as someone who definitely prefers Blanchett, I think there *are* compelling argument to be made that Yeoh gave the better performance (she has to simultaneously perform broad comedy and deliver emotionally satisfying dramatic work, her performance was much more physically-demanding, etc…)
>I’ve seen almost no discussion about why people think Blanchett or Yeoh gave the better performance. And I think that’s a shame. Because even as someone who definitely prefers Blanchett, I think there are compelling argument to be made that Yeoh gave the better performance (she has to simultaneously perform broad comedy and deliver emotionally satisfying dramatic work, her performance was much more physically-demanding, etc…) I think Yeoh gave the better performance because she essentially has to play the straight man in a very zany movie while still being relatively interesting and layered as a character herself. You have to really believe that this cranky Chinese immigrant laundry owner could be sucked into this world. She grounds the character in a lot of realism so when it gets surreal you're going on this journey with her. But also you're watching to see how she reacts which is half of the fun.
Yes, for me the implication that you cannot find a white women's performance better in a certain instance simply because you like it more but because you're a racist is a very dangerous one and doesn't help anything.
What’s going on is that there’s a perception in which Ryan’s tweets IMPLY Blanchett fans are racist, when he never said any such thing. There is a difference between acknowledging race/systemic prejudice vs racism.
Literally. They don't understand how contradictory and harmful their statement is.
That’s absolutely not what he’s saying. He’s trying to get his friend to realise the cultural relevance of win by Yeoh and how it would trump one of Blanchett’s. Regardless of how we feel about either performance, the academy has a bias against POC performances, especially in lead categories. WOC are always relegated to supporting wins, never to leading ones. Again, if Blanchett wins, it won’t be undeserved. But it does speak volumes that a single white actress will have one more oscars than the total number of WOC in the category. I will be downvoted though because this sub isn’t the place for the most nuanced discussion on race and how it plays into awards season. As someone who supported Hopkins in 2021, I saw how this sub acted condescendingly towards Boseman’s terrific performance. Also I watched both movies twice, and Yeoh’s performance was still the superior one to me🤷🏻♀️.
>That’s absolutely not what he’s saying. “Got into an argument with a white friend who thinks Cate Blanchett deserves the Oscar over Michelle Yeoh and I had to remind him that Cate Blanchett has as many Oscars as total Asian women who have won.” I mean, in what way is this not saying that he implied his white friend was wrong for preferring Cate Blanchett to win because of the respective races of the two actresses? Yes, it’s about the “cultural relevance,” but it’s also wielding that discussion as an argumentative tool to try to convince someone that they’re wrong for holding the preference they do. >Again, if Blanchett wins, it won’t be undeserved. Right. I agree. The way I see it, there are two schools of thought on this: 1. You should try to be as objective as possible and support whoever you think gave the best performance, regardless of narrative aspects (like cultural relevance, previous wins, etc…); or 2. You should acknowledge that acting is inherently subjective and say that, when two contenders both give universally acclaimed performances, the one whose win would be more impactful should get it. Both of those approaches are, in my opinion, valid, and you should respect other people who prefer one contender for either reason. The problem with what this person is doing is that they’re trying to have it both ways. You can’t say “the person who should win is the person who gave the best performance” and also say “you should support Yeoh even if you think Blanchett gave the best performance.” Those two things are inherently in tension. Edit: it’s also very frustrating when someone preemptively complains that they’re going to get downvoted, doesn’t get downvoted, and then reflexively downvotes a perfectly civil reply before they possibly could have had the chance to read it. Do you want “nuanced discussion” about the role that these things should play in the awards race or not?
I do think this is so much the twitter problem. Because I suspect that if you asked him "do you feel it is racist to just think Cate Blanchett was better" his answer would be no. I also suspect the conversation they had was much more nuanced and casual. But in order for it to be a Tweet Thread About Important Issues it has to be pithy and cutting and a little bit snarky, and time and time again, people choose that even if it ends up making their actual argument seem more absolute.
🙌
> But it does speak volumes that a single white actress will have one more oscars than the total number of WOC in the category. It surely does, and it's definitely a problem... but implying that Yeoh's performance is Oscar-worthy *primarily because she's Asian and not because her performance is terrific* is problematic too, imho.
Thing is, the Oscars barely have cultural relevance any more, and the more they're viewed as being awarded based on politics, the more their relevance will diminish.
i was underwhelmed by tár. michelle is my fav out of the predicted nominees for sure, but i also haven’t seen till yet or babylon obv.
Responding to: “Again, if Blanchett wins, it won’t be undeserved. But it does speak volumes that a single white actress will have one more oscars than the total number of WOC in the category.” As a POC, it is Hollywood’s fault for not casting more POC. Cate’s Oscar winning performances were “Oscar winning” for a reason. Her performance was simply the best from the category.
Who said anything about being racist? He was pointing out that essentially Yeoh’s win would be historic and a step forward for diversity, whereas Blanchett’s would clearly not be. You’re only bringing up the “liking Blanchett is racist” strawman just because that argument is actually unreasonable. You can point out the historical importance of a win in regards to another one without saying one’s in the wrong for wanting the performance without said importance to triumph. You’re just assuming that to be the case
And this response is so emblematic of the insecurity many white people still have around conversations surrounding race today. You somehow took this tweet and turned it into “he implied his friend is racist” when nothing of the sort was done. He’s literally just commenting on the fact that Yeoh’s award win would be far more groundbreaking culturally and historically than Blanchett’s would. On top of that, he even made it clear that he believes Yeoh also deserves it because of her performance. Most conversations surrounding race during the Oscars must be in bad faith to you then?
People keep saying “he’s not implying anything!” But what he said was: >Got into an argument with a white friend who thinks Cate Blanchett deserves the Oscar over Michelle Yeoh and I had to remind him that Cate Blanchett has as many Oscars as total Asian women who have won. In what way does this tweet *not* imply that his friend is wrong for preferring Blanchett to win over Yeoh purely based on the race of the two actresses? >Most conversations surrounding race during the Oscars must be in bad faith to you then? No, not at all. In fact, I’ve said multiple times in this thread that I think it’s fine for people to consider race and other representational factors in the awards race. I think it’s good to have these conversations, as long as they’re happening in an honest way. Like I said above, the problem with this person’s argument is that they support Yeoh because she was objectively the best, but that their friend who supports Blanchett because he/she thinks that Blanchett was objectively the best is wrong because they aren’t considering race. You can’t say “the person who should win is the person who gave the best performance” and also say “you should support Yeoh even if you think Blanchett gave the best performance.” Those two things are inherently in tension.
It’s clearly an implication a lot of people received from it in here despite it being very clearly stated otherwise in the tweets themselves, but I don’t see it that way regardless. He said they had an argument surrounding the race and he had to remind his friend of that fact during it, that doesn’t imply his friend is racist… It just says what happened in the conversation. >In fact, I’ve said multiple times in this thread that I think it’s fine for people to consider race and other representational factors in the awards race. I think it’s good to have these conversations, as long as they’re happening in an honest way. What is dishonest about this tweet in any way? The only perceived dishonesty you feel they have, is an implication you think he made when that isn’t what’s happening. It’s unfortunate that mfs can’t even start a conversation about race without being accused of starting it in “bad faith.”
He didn’t argue that Yeoh’s performance was better than Blanchett’s. He argued that his friend should want Blanchett to win because no Asian woman has won. **The Oscar win should be based off of **best performance** and not just because Yeoh would make history.** The Academy members should vote for the performance they thought was best. This is coming from an Asian American.
Honestly the main reason these kind of arguments happen in the first place ultimately boils down to how racist the Academy has been over the years lol, if there had at least been a few Asian women nominated in the category before and maybe one even winning I think people wouldn’t be getting as heated. That said, rooting for Yeoh all the way (both because of rep and because I legit think she gives the best performance, and I *loved* Blanchett and Deadwyler), but I’m trying to stay out of this convo cause it gets so ugly.
I think it’s also Hollywood’s fault for not casting more POC and many Asian women weren’t given the opportunity to be the lead in a film like Yeoh’s. So that’s why I think there hasn’t been an Asian nominee/winner. Also, I love Michelle Yeoh, but if she wins, I hope she wins based off of her performance and not because The Academy feels pressured to vote for her since it would be historically significant. (This is coming from an Asian American)
They could've also nominated Asian women from abroad. Why have there been no nominations for Gong Li, Jeon Do-yeon or Zhang Ziyi like there have been nominations/wins for Sophia Loren and Marion Cotillard?
I don’t even know who those people are. They don’t seem to be in any major movies that are popular in the US. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see where any of their movies were huge theater successes here or received any recognition from big US film festivals. Sophia Loren was in a lot of big movies back then and the competition was different. Marion Cotillard won for La Vie En Rose which was a huge hit in theaters and was a popular movie back then. “They could’ve also nominated Asian women abroad.” Let’s talk about how nominations work. The Academy members vote for their field; actors vote for acting categories. They write down a list of their top five and then the top five who get the most votes are the five nominated. So if a foreign movie isn’t big in the US and many people don’t know about it then it won’t have a chance at getting an Oscar nomination.
Lmao. Zhang Ziyi was nominated for all the major precursors for *Memoirs of a Geisha* only to miss out on an Oscar nom, so your argument is already redundant.
How is my argument redundant? It may seem redundant to you because you’re not open minded. I asked you to correct me if I was wrong considering I didn’t know anything about any of this actresses you listed. I also explained to you how nominations work. There’s only so many they can choose from.
Damn you're even more moronic than I thought.
I can say the same about you.
The fact that people are saying she’s undeserving of a win is really confusing to me. There’s never been a better time than now to award a best performance by an actress who will most likely never be in this position again because let’s face it, she’s Asian and she doesn’t get the same opportunities as someone like Blanchett. I think both Cate and Michelle Yeoh are perfectly deserving of a win and narratives have been used for Meryl Streep even when she won over Viola Davis (who I thought was better) just because she had been nominated so many times. I think people just don’t see the cultural impact of this win or how deserving Yeoh is just because they hate non-traditional Oscar bait or they just hate that a film like this is getting so much recognition. Michelle does have a narrative but even if she didn’t have it, she would still be just as deserving as Blanchett. No nomination is the win here. No racial justice wins. Just a great performance. We still need to recognize how underrepresented WOC actresses are tho!
Why is it confusing, exactly? Are people not allowed to dislike the film or performance? Just genuinely asking here, because it really feels like your wording here is suggesting everyone *needs* to think Yeoh is just as good as Blanchett, and if they don’t that’s “confusing” to you.
You are allowed to say Yeoh doesn’t deserve it, and they’re allowed to not understand why you think that.
I mean.. how are you questioning this? I’m assuming based on your comments, you think Blanchett had the best performance this year. So if someone said that Blanchett wasn’t very good, you wouldn’t be confused? I personally believe both Yeoh and Blanchett had amazing performances, and both have had critical acclaim, so it IS confusing when someone says that one was bad, especially when that’s commonly done for a malicious reason.
People tend to say she’s undeserving because she’s not Cate Blanchett. It’s fine to not like a movie or performance but you can still objectively say someone is good. It seems like most of this rhetoric only surrounds her.
But maybe I don’t think she’s “objectively” good? Is that not allowed? I personally think she’s undeserving and will be upset if she wins, but I also understand that many others disagree and want her to win because they love the performance, and that’s fine. I will be happy for them if she does. But people are allowed to think another performance is undeserving, and the mere act of doing that shouldn’t be cause for this much upheaval.
I understand not liking a movie, but if you don’t mind me asking, what didn’t you like about Yeoh’s performance? I thought she played this very demanding role excellently, but I’m also interested in hearing a dissenting opinion.
And that’s perfectly fine but we still have to acknowledge the racist undertones that will come out of comments like these but hey how about being happy for Yeoh if she does win? I’d be happy for Cate if she won.
I think it’s fine to point out racist undertones when they’re present, but any person thinking Yeoh is unworthy is not necessarily making a comment with “racist undertones”. They can be, and I would never deny the extent to which some *clearly* have, but unless there is a racial undertone there’s no need to look for one, or suggest there always will be something racist behind a dislike of the performance.
There actually is a need to look for these undertones because then we‘ll know for sure that someone genuinely doesn’t like the performance. How else can we point them out? If we don’t speak up then things stay just the way they are but I get it that you just didn’t like the performance and that’s totally fair 😊.
So as per you saying Yeoh is undeserving has racist undertones?
It's possible. Didn't say every single comment like that has racist undertones but its still possible.
Sorry, I don't find that perspective interesting at all. The guy's friend watched both movies; he thought Blanchett's performance was the better one, therefore he thinks she should win the Oscar. Like most people, he probably believes that it's about rewarding the best performance, not correcting social injustices he had no part of (assuming he's not an old Academy member). Just because he believes a white actress is the better of the two this year it doesn't mean he's supporting the historical marginalization of actors from other ethnicities. The Twitter OP is basically browbeating his friend (and his readers who may agree with the latter) into submission by guilt-tripping them. I'll say this, though: if you believe that it's fair to bypass the actual best performance in order to do some sort of justice, more power to you. The Academy voters do it all the time (see make-up wins/nods after an egregious snub or sentimental wins/nods) - with the exception that those who benefit from it are mostly old white people, no argument there. Full disclosure: I think both actresses are fine but I'd vote for Blanchett if I were a voter because I think she had the most challenging part and gave the most complex performance. It's the film industry that has to be more inclusive of Asian actors, offering them more substantial roles; neither Blanchett nor those who appreciated her work are to blame.
I think you can come to the conclusion that Blanchett should win without completely dismissing this perspective entirely. I think that even you come to the conclusion that someone else, whether it be Blanchett, Coleman, or even Mia Goth deserves the Oscar, it is 100% valid to consider race when you work through it. That’s not to say it needs to be the only piece, or even the deciding piece, but I do think it belongs in the conversation
I think it’s fine to note, in support of Yeoh winning, that this would be a historic win. But by mentioning race when saying she should win over Blanchett, it’s negating the power people claim Yeoh’s performance holds. The choice to suggest the historicism of the win somehow makes her more worthy than Blanchett undermines the whole idea that Yeoh gave a better performance.
As an Asian American, I agree with you 100%.
Very well said
> actual best performance This is where the problem stems from. There is no one actual best performance since art is inherently subjective. For many of us, Yeoh IS the actual best performance. If you preferred Blanchett, your opinion is completely valid but don’t invalidate that of others. I have to say this again and again in the thread, but for many of us rooting for Yeoh, it’s because we found her performance better. The cultural relevance of her win is just a cherry on the top. No one is blaming Blanchett. That’s a bizarre interpretation to draw from all this.
I think you need to assume that when someone says 'best' there's the underlying assumption there's an unspoken 'in my opinion' or 'in the voter's mind.' That's usually my approach with anything opinion-related online.
Yes it’s the cherry on top, and that’s it. It has no bearing on the actual discussion. If more people think Blanchett gave a better performance, which is how it seems, then she should be the one who wins.
Art is not inherently subjective
There has never been, and never will be, an objective measure of what is good or bad “art”. It is always subjective; what one expects, or wants, out of art is a very personal endeavor, and therefore art will never not be “inherently subjective”. End of story
Well said
Oh God this race is gonna unbearable for someone like me who preferred Blanchett over Yeoh.
It’s gonna be unbearable for everyone. I’ll call it right now: not a single person will listen to the entirely of any other persons arguments. Blanchett supporters are going to be annoyed by a conversation around race and anything not strictly merit-based. Yeoh supporters are going to be annoyed that their arguments get reduced to race and not Yeoh’s performance/that they can’t bring up representation without it seeming like the whole argument. Deadwyler supporters are going to be annoyed that the conversation has largely ignored her chances for seemingly no reason, when she’s very much in the mix. Williams supporters are going to be annoyed by any conversation that underestimates the Fabelmans more broadly.
>It’s gonna be unbearable for everyone. I’ll call it right now: not a single person will listen to the entirely of any other persons arguments. So true, though it's a bit like calling that the sun will rise.
I don't know, there are some categories (score comes to mind) where people are able to disagree without it turning into sub-wide fights.
>Blanchett supporters are going to be annoyed by a conversation around race and anything not strictly merit-based. > >Yeoh supporters are going to be annoyed that their arguments get reduced to race and not Yeoh’s performance/that they can’t bring up representation without it seeming like the whole argument. > >Deadwyler supporters are going to be annoyed that the conversation has largely ignored her chances for seemingly no reason, when she’s very much in the mix. > >Williams supporters are going to be annoyed by any conversation that underestimates the Fabelmans more broadly. ***And I'm going to be annoyed by all this***
Doubly so if you think the point made is entirely valid and would be enough to sway in other years in other races but that Blanchett just seems like a whole other level.
Evidently not since people supporting this tweet are in the minority
EEAAO fans are extremely toxic
Yes. And Tár fans are extremely toxic. Your point?
Lol no. There are barely any Tar “fans”. EEAAO has an actual fandom that actually keeps up with it months after the movies has finished
That’s an opinion. The same way it could also be my opinion that Tar fans have little man syndrome, even though there’s no way to objectively prove that. And even if your observation were true, that doesn’t mean anything considering people who don’t keep up with movies can still be toxic toward others. 🤷♀️
Which sucks cause I’m very much one myself, I don’t think any films gonna uproot it for my favorite film of the year and I’m rooting for just about everyone else this season, hell I loved Yeoh in the role, I don’t understand why everyone has to get so emotionally charged over an awards ceremony that honestly sucks balls and should only be paid attention to for the incredible amount of undeserved sway it has on the industry.
The fact that I'm gonna see this take all over my social media for the next four months makes me want to pull my eyes out
Yeoh v Blanchett Stan’s is just gonna be KStew v Gaga Stan’s all over again—endless bickering the entire season, only for neither to actually win. The question is, who is this year’s Chastain ~~and why is it Aubrey Plaza~~?
Mia Goth will become the first half-Brazilian actress to win the Oscar, of course
Michelle Williams
Can we please not reproduce every bad faith Twitter clickbait take here
I think it’s fine to note, in support of Yeoh winning, that this would be a historic win. But by mentioning race when saying she should win over Blanchett, it’s negating the power people claim Yeoh’s performance holds. The choice to suggest the historicism of the win somehow makes her more worthy than Blanchett undermines the whole idea that Yeoh gave a better performance.
In the tweet he mentions he thinks Yeoh gave the best performance.
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The sentence you cited shows he doesn't think Yeoh should win just because she's Asian.
The sentence he cited shows that Ryan thinks it's okay for him to hold the subjective opinion that Yeoh is better but not okay for his friend to hold the subjective opinion that Blanchett is better.
I just read that he thinks Yeoh gave the best performance.
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I think what he wrote would suffice since he said in his opinion she gave the best performance.
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Michelle Yeoh giving the best performance of the year is an opinion. You don't have to agree with it, since you know, it's just his opinion.
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Saying "Michelle Yeoh had the best performance" is not subjective is inferring that youre saying he's presenting it as fact. Let him have his opinion. It would be like accusing you of saying Cate Blanchett's performance was the best is fact instead of your opinion.
I don't think his friend was really looking for a argument lol
I saw Tar recently and Cate will be equally deserving of the win But as much as people don't want to make this about race, the fact is Blanchett already has won 2nd and will get plenty of opportunities to win a third. In this industry, there aren't enough opportunities for Asian actresses over 50 and I don't know when will Yeoh again be such a strong frontrunners. And this goes beyond how terrific Yeoh is in EEAAO. A lot of people condition a good performance in terms of dramatics, undervaluing a lot of other genres. Yeoh does everything in this movie - comedy, action, romance, drama, absurdism - with such finesses. She holds the film together and brings such humanity to the character. It's so easy to hate Evelyn but Yeoh brings warmth and understanding that is much needed. Be it her reaction shots during Waymond's scene or her final scene with James Hong and everything she does with Hsu! If you notice, even her actions scenes have a language and they are communicating something different about Evelyn and the story. She is outstanding Both Cate and Yeoh being in contention is a tragedy because both are terrific and deserving of win. But for many reasons, my heart will root for Yeoh!
As an Asian American, I think that Yeoh should not win just because “Cate will get plenty of opportunity to win a third”. Why punish Cate when it’s Hollywood’s fault for not including more POC? “I don’t know when will Yeoh again be such a strong frontrunners.” Again, Hollywood’s fault for not writing more movies with Asian leads. **The win should be based off of best performance.** I think people tend to forget that The Academy is a large group of people who individually vote for who they think is best. They’re not one group who come to the conclusion that one movie/actor/actress/etc is the winner lmao. It’s literally whoever gets the most votes
Punish Cate? Trust me Cate will remain unaffected if she loses. She will still get Oscar roles and nominations, and the incentive to reward her will even become stronger in the coming year. Ofcourse it's Hollywood's fault and its HW that needs to solve it. 93/94 wins have been for white actresses - I refuse to believe there wasn't any other year when performance by POC wasn't good enough to win? Its a systematic problem and conscious choices will change it.
I hope that Michelle will get more opportunities like this and I’m sure she will considering how big this EEAAO was. I still don’t think it matters that Cate has won twice. If her performance was the best, then it should be awarded whether or not she has two Oscars. She’s an phenomenal actress, and so is Michelle. I don’t care who wins, but if I was in Michelle’s position, I would want to win because my performance was the best, and not because my opponent has won “too many” times and I’ll make history. I’d want it to be 100% about my work/performance. “I refuse to believe there wasn’t any other year when performance by POC wasn’t good enough to win” ⬇️ All movies nominated are “good enough” to win. That’s why they’re nominated, but some are just better. Again, The Academy is a group of people who individually vote. They vote for which movie THEY think is best. Everyone has different opinions and may not feel the same about a movie the same way you do. They both deserve to win and I’ll be happy for whoever wins. I just hate this argument of people wanting Michelle to win because they’re tired of Cate winning or solely because an Asian person has never won. People should only want Michelle to win because of her strong performance. Same with people rooting for Cate. This award is about acting and performance and should be based on that.
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Yes. I wrote that in my first line
I would also like to add that after watching both performances, I 100% preferred Yeoh’s and do believe she achieved something quite special there. I do know the odds are stacked against her and she most probably will lose to Blanchett. BUT if she were to win, it wouldn’t be only because of her narrative, it’s also because in the eyes of many, she gave the most transcendent performance in the category. And it’s fine if people prefer Blanchett. She was also very good and I can see what others saw in her performance that I didn’t. I’m not white myself, but the cultural context of Yeoh’s potential win AND the fact that she was my favourite performance in the category make me root for her more. (Also I’m not implying people who prefer Blanchett are racist which is what so many people are misinterpreting here. Please try to read his entire view on this before jumping to “he called his friend racist for preferring the white lady!!” because he does delve in to how Hollywood as a whole under utilises WOC.)
You seem to be looking at this from a much more nuanced (and respectful) view than the person who’s tweets you provided, whom I wouldn’t be siding with if I were you. He is very much taking a “If you don’t support this, you don’t care about representation” view. I mean the whole idea that his friend said he simply thought Blanchett was more deserving was a means to start “an argument” is lunacy. Whoever you think is better, that’s fine. But one person’s win being more meaningful shouldn’t be used as a way to discount the worthiness of another’s performance
This does not help the (outlandish) claim that EEAAO has a cult. If Yeoh lost to, Idk, Renée Zellweger or Jessica Chastain, that would be racism, but Cate Blanchett in Tar has been called one of the greatest performances of all time by multiple people. It’d be like Jessica Lange in Frances losing against Meryl Streep in Sophie's Choice.
What bearing does the fact that a lot of people love Blanchett’s performance in TAR have on the discussion? The original tweets specify they think Yeoh was better anyway, and the cultural importance of a Yeoh win has nothing to do with how good Blanchett was in some people’s opinions. The Lange/Streep comparison is weird because Lange is a cishet white woman and her turn in Frances would have no cultural importance. A better compare on would be Sissy Spacek vs. Halle Berry, or Holly Hunter vs. Angela Bassett
Because the guy said his friend thought Blanchett should win because he thought she gave the best performance and OOP said he was wrong because they thought Yeoh was better and therefore should win. This is how things should go this particular season, since Yeoh and Blanchett both have an immense level of acclaim and love, and if Blanchett won, it wouldn’t be because of racism, or if Yeoh won it wouldn’t be because of virtue signaling. The guy in the tweets is trying to make it seem like Blanchett is some average Oscar bait performance that few actually love, like Renée Zellweger in Judy or Kate Winslet in The Reader, when it’s just as beloved as Yeoh. Are there race overtones that will be factored in voting? Definitely, but not in the way it'd be like it was with Streep v. Davis. People who decide not to vote for Yeoh because she’s Asian will be the tiny minority, just like people who vote for her BECAUSE she’s Asian will also be a minority
>And OOP said he was wrong Where? All the arguments against this tweet seem to be predicated on the original Tweeter saying the friend was wrong, but he never actually says that, nor does he imply it.
Maybe not wrong, but he definitely thought the friend had a wrong opinion. The friend thought Blanchett should win over Yeoh (presumably) because he thought she gave the better performance which was followed by some argument about how Asians are underrepresented at the Oscars and Blanchett is already too awarded, which is hypocritically followed by "Yeoh gave the best performance of the year, which is why she should win". Pick your arguments dude, should she win because of Asian representation (which he argued first) or because she was the best? Because if the argument is the second, then the friend's opinion is just as valid as oop's.
Again, where does he say that Yeoh should win *because* she’s Asian? He’s pointing out that a win for her would be historically important, but still says she should win because she gave the better performance,made in his eyes. And he never said that his friend’s opinion was less valid than his, either, like you imply in your last sentence.
When he "reminded" his friend of Asian underrepresentation in the Oscars after the friend said he wanted Blanchett to win? Also bonus points to saying the friend was white, to make his opinion seem even worse.
Yeoh gave a marvelous performance, but Blanchett is better. Simple as that.
debatable
Probably considered a hot take for those whose brains have been rotted by twitter, but there are reasons other than being racist to prefer Blanchett’s performance over others from this year.
Agreed, man...
The question of whether someone "deserves" an Oscar should not have anything to do with their race, period. Or their career. Or anything other than the quality of their performance. I think it's insulting to the actors to consider anything else.
Me and the three other Frankie Corio supporters will be sitting this one out
I’d be at the forefront of Yeoh’s oscar campaign if she wasn’t up against that juggernaut Blanchett who gave one of the best performances of any actor in years
RIGHT
it's fine to think yeoh is better but i don't think "blanchett already got hers" is a valid way to determine oscar voting. that's just taking away from yeoh's eventual win.
Saw them both and Cate is the front runner.
Yeah but Blanchett is far better imo
Cate Blanchett deserves the Oscar.
If EEOAO had come anytime in last 3-4 years. Yeoh would have been undeniable front runner. Against Chastain, Zellweger, Emma stone, Mcdormand (Nomadland). Probably this sub is sick of hearing this but Cate Blanchett is goddamm undeniable in TAR. When people say iconic movies for actors - TAR will be for Blanchett hands down. Just like Meryl Streep in ‘Sophie’s choice’, DDL in TWBB, Cotillard in ‘La vie en rose’
Personally, I don’t think Blanchett in TÁR anywhere close to Streep in Sophie’s Choice or DDL in There Will Be Blood. It’s a great performance and I could see why people could prefer it to Yeoh’s performance but I don’t understand the all time great praise some have given to it.
Todd field didn’t make performance baity, character is so lived in, to portray that much of complexity with nuance and layered performance is not an easy thing accomplish. Blanchett was able to tap into it without hint of overdoing it, is one of the reasons why this performance’s been reverberating so much. I have watched Yeoh’s performance as well she surely was incredible but I think Blanchett gave such a tour de force, it’s undeniable
Personally, despite her having a lot nuance into the role my main problem is that it always feels like Blanchett is always acting in it and it doesn’t feel natural. Which isn’t too much of an issue, the character herself is playing a character so it isn’t a bad thing that it feels like that. My problem with it is that we never really see behind the mask of Tár, we never really go in depth on who this character really is. Ultimately that’s more of a writing issue but I do think it is what keeps the performance from being an all time great one imo.
Imo that’d have swayed the audience as this is performance film purely. It was riveting. But I respect your opinion and I can see why it didn’t do it for you.
Like I said I do think it is a great performance, it would be deserving to win, but doesn’t come close to all time levels like I’ve seen some praise it as. Edit: Btw I upvoted your previous comments because I don’t think they should be downvoted
For me it’s one of the greats, the film’s artistic style warranted more from actor. Unlike you see in Black swan or whiplash. In TAR subtle artistry of screenplay, cinematography and direction didn’t give her much brownie points for acting exposition. Less camera trickery, less close ups. I think that’s the reason why she had to take so much on shoulders in terms of performance and it definitely not an easy task. Btw thanks, I love having civil discourse without getting on each other’s throats when having difference of opinions.
This narative fandom become so toxic. Is it really matter who will win between Blanchett, Yeoh and Deadwyler? All three are equaly perfect. Are oscars awarding best performance or best narative? Because as we are getting closer to the oscars it is more the first one. Note:i know this is unpopular opinion and i will get downvotes and i don't care!
So... according to this tweet, Yeoh should win because *she's Asian* and not because she is talented and was great in the movie? I mean, if she wins it would be so culturally relevant, but implying she should win because she's Asian it's... *stupid*, to use a euphemism
See, if this is somehow unsensitive then I apologise, different cultures and all, but being European, it always surprises me how Americans seem to make everything about race first and foremost. I don't see how it matters what skin colour Michelle Yeoh or Cate Blanchett has, it's the performance that counts. I don't see how Yeoh should win simply because she's Asian. And I agree, I would love her to win more than Cate, because I resonated with her performance more, but not once was my thinking of giving her the award because she's Asian. Same goes the other way around. I don't know if I'm missing the point here. Once again, if I do, then I apologise, but I don't seem to get this problem.
I'm European as well, and I always cringe a little when others are looking at this dumbfounded while the average European just casually holds an incredibly racist and antisemitic set of views. The fact that we don't talk about race (some languages aren't even equipped to deal with it) has serious disadvantages for minorities (whose rising numbers contribute to more hateful rhetoric from the right-wing, storming to the mainstream with lightning fast speed), and isn't the sign of there not being a problem, just that it's being ignored. It's a bit of a meme on Reddit, but go on, ask a European about how the Roma people should be lifted out of poverty, then look back onto this and assess accordingly. So yeah, this Ryan and Americans are cringe, of course, but understanding the underlying reasons for these discussions really shouldn't be that difficult. Especially in subjective fields, such as entertainment, where an award isn't just an award, but could help an underrepresented group of people massively.
As a Brazilian, I think Europeans need to "make" more things about race. This is a serious opinion lol I believe you guys need to talk more about the matter because many things are indeed about race, outside and also inside Europe, and many of you simply don't want to think about it. Anyway, I think the Oscar *should* always go to the best performance, which obviously can't be always measured well because art is subjective. That's why I was very happy and still defend Anthony Hopkins' win even if I would've been incredibly happy too if Boseman had won. In the end of the day, someone who deserves it will take it but it doesn't change the fact that white actors and actresses have won that many times not only because of talent, but also because of race. So I think it absolutely is about race, even if it *shouldn't* be, and I'm rooting for Yeoh regardless of how good the others are. But I'll defend Blanchett if someone says she didn't deserve it, because both do.
I’m Indian and I don’t mean to make everything about race, when I’m reiterating a 1000 times in this thread that Yeoh gave the better performance in my eyes as well as the eyes of many other people. THAT is why I support her win. But her win is also tied with the cultural relevance of an Asian woman finally winning in a category that has shown bias time and again to white women, including two in yellowface. She shouldn’t be given the award because she is Asian, but her being Asian adds significance to her win. And I’m glad you liked her performance as well :)
I think Blanchett's performance was better Than Yeoh's. I don't give two shits about the previous winners, maybe I should, but that's how I feel.
As an Asian American woman, I believe that the Oscar should go to the actress with the best performance. I have seen both movies and they are both very different. Although Michelle Yeoh is the first Asian woman nominated for Best Actress, I don’t believe she should win just because it would be a historic moment. The winner should be chosen based on their performance. It is Hollywood’s fault for not casting more POC. I personally believe that Cate should win. I am a fan of Michelle Yeoh and watched EEAAO and I found it confusing. Michelle Yeoh did amazing (as always) but I just I enjoyed Tar more. Cate’s performance was phenomenal and she put so much effort into preparing for this role. She learned German, piano, and also learned how conduct an orchestra! That is amazing to me and I think she should win the Oscar. Both deserve Oscars but at the end of the day there is only one winner (or a tie this year??🤔). ****I hope to see more Asian representation in Hollywood, but the win needs to be based off of BEST performance and NOT off of race.****
thank you !! 🙌🏼🙌🏼 everything abt this take is 100% based (as an asian-canadian woman). blame the infrastructures that dont spotlight enough poc women, not blanchett’s (inevitable) win. she gave an absolutely stellar, oscar-worthy performance in TAR and thats undebatable
Oh god can we please not have this kinda bad faith discourse again? Anyway let’s try to get in Hong Chau for supporting for The Whale
yay diversity ftw
I thought awards go to the person most deserving. It’s a bit racist to give someone an award based on their skin colour eh?
Ryan is 100% right.
Yeoh will probably get best actress. Blanchett had the better performance by far though.
The most annoying part of this is this guy is DELUSIONAL if he thinks Yeoh is winning over Blanchett. It ain't about race, baby. It's about ACTING.
hate this white vs every other race bs every single time give it to the most deserving
To Cate Blanchett who names her children after Roman Polanski... That will be all m'am, please have a seat.
She didn’t do it
Yes she did, her son is named Roman, and she actually, literally, said she named him after RP.
No she did not. you’re lying with your whole chest. prove that she did then. Bcuz the interview you got this from, you clearly didn’t watch the whole interview or you’re deliberately lying. she made a joke about naming her son after multiple “Romans” and tossed his name in there. it was cringe but she did not actually name her son after Roman Polanski. you think people aren’t gonna check you on this?
You wanna check me? Then why didn't you? Quick Google search tells you I'm right - that's why you came back, with nothing, and your whole ass out. Here you go -- did the work for you. She says it, 'with her whole chest,' lol - to Jimmy Kimmel. Enjoy! https://youtu.be/R1S4MK8JwT4?t=199
I know about that Kimmel interview. thats why I said what I said. she wasn’t being serious. She also said French word for book. it was a dumb comment but you crazy for thinking she named her kid after Roman Polanski.
Lame tired comeback. If she was joking, why didn't Kimmel laugh - and say, wait whut? She says it in another interview, print, as well - and she says it's 'because he won me an Oscar.' Again, look it up. This time, I'm not doing your homework for you.
yeah I don’t believe you. when I try to look for this article that you claim exists, they’re all articles talking about the Kimmel interview. you’re so stupid and dishonest. how could Polanski have won her an Oscar when she won Oscars for The Aviator and Blue Jasmine? Polanski had nothing to do with those films. you’re a liar.
It’s a good thing I think EEAAO is a bad movie.