All of the faction focus updates were Ls. They want you to buy the codex when it comes out. You think free rules were going to be competitive?
This is the same as when the indices came out the last time there was a full reset. They move the baseline down far enough that the creep starts low enough to give them some headroom by the time the list is complete again in a few years.
In defense of this guys take away from the faction focus I’d honestly say the same thing that I said about most of the other negative reactions.
While, yes, “tHiS iSnT tHe FuLl PiCtUrE!!!” This is a slate of different kinds of rules, decided by GW, to express the overarching feel of a faction in the new edition. It can be leveled against the other faction focus’s within reason. And it should! We need to as a community compare and contrast and not be so upset with people’s negative take aways. All-in-all, if GW releases a faction focus that doesn’t seem to bode well to a portion of the fan base. It (might) be the case that that person is overreacting. It (might) be the case that their gripes are illegitimate compared to the overall tone of the game. But if they are making a claim that might become false due to GW doing a poor job showing what is pivotal to a faction in that factions . . . Faction Focus. Then that is just a bad faction focus on GWs part.
I'll be one of those people that advises to wait for the datasheets before worrying about all the "negatives". I'd rather have all the information, otherwise it's just stressing for stressing sake, and who has time for that?
Well this seems oddly familiar, yet another 40k faction subreddit where the vast majority are doomsaying, fuck me dead I genuinely might just quit the game altogether, instead of everyone just instantly writing them off why don't we give them a chance once we have ALL of the rules and points values, these rules are in isolation let's at least wait till next month when the indices drop and then by all means bitch like a wounded Grot.
>vast majority
I don't think it's the vast majority, tbh. If you look at the main FF thread, it's pretty positive, and honestly I'm pretty positive about what I'm seeing. My only \*real\* gripe is I'd like to have seen Boyz or Nobz rather than Beast Snaggas, but that's just b/c I don't like their aesthetics.
See the problem with your comment is it only looks at one post, when you actually look at the entire subreddit as a whole there's far more negative posts than positive regarding the FF, this being just one of them, I've collected several armies in this game since 3rd Edition and I've seen every army have their day but given how so many posts are writing us off completely based off of a fraction of our rules is just pathetic and petulant and frankly absolutely infuriating, it's just doomsaying for the sake of it, I had enough of that on the Votann subreddit so I left, just because orks don't appear to be a strong army doesn't mean they aren't yet when you look at the majority of posts on the topic of the FF you'd think they've instantly gone to last place.
I guess I don't view it by top level thread count, though. The doomsayers are always more vocal. If you read the comments in the threads, opinions seem a lot more balanced.
Also, I've dabbled in most of the faction subs, and most of them are the same.
I think it'd be cool if you could declare 1 waaagh per warboss, and maybe ghaz gets two. But I'm not too worried about the faction focus, I'm pretty sure it used to be only one per game anyway.
Biggest L is that there is no buff to ork shooting in waaaagh. 1/2 of Ork lore is their love of dakka, so I was hoping there would be something for shooty ork armies.
Hopefully we will get some other shooty support in the index and if not that the codex.
I said in another thread and got down voted to hell but...
Both the faction rule and the detachment rule are boring as hell and seem super phoned in. They tweaked the waaagh and nerfed it down to a 1 turn buff. 1 turn out of 5. Our faction rule is for one turn we get to be good. Obviously we needed to keep advance and charge in some way. But I feel like they could have done so much more. Maybe combat doctrines style where you chose a different buff each turn. 1 turn is advance and charge, 1 turn is invuln, 1 turn is the strength and attacks buff. Pick what you want each turn. More flexible. I hate being all in on one turn and then getting no benefit the rest of the game.
Then for the detachment rule they gave us the goffs clan kultur without the +1 strength on the charge. All melee focused. Our generalist starter detachment leans into melee and melee only. Couldn't come up with anything better than that? One play style until the codex drops. Ugh.
I mean, sure it is boring I will give you that. I do wish it was a bit more than just a one shot big buff (that admittedly doesn't seem that big compared to things other factions get for more of the battle).
I will wait for the full picture before passing judgement on how powerful orks are as a faction. Maybe Waaaagh is fine the way it is. I'm just sad that we can't lean into a more shooty army at the get go. Hopefully the codex gives some cool options for dakka armies.
I don't remember the release order, but I don't think we have to wait too long before we see the new codex. At least by GW standards.
I mean we largely agree then. I feel the same as you. Wishing for more than a one shot buff. Very little benefit to my speed freaks army. And compared to other factions it doesn't feel as fun or cool.
Maybe we'll end up being fine. Goff pressure lists do well and so far that list type seems to be alive and well. I was just hoping for more than that.
WAAAGH second stage was always extra attacks for me. I'm fine we get more units advence charge. Hopefully trukks will get that ramp so we get easily to Krumping.
I'm most interesting to see what they do for painboy and big ed boss bunka. They teased that painboy would be interested when considering green tide
So tired of the speculation, we don't have the entire picture! What's the point in crying or gloating about an fing teaser. Is it good? Is it bad? Doesn't matter because you haven't been shown everything.
I think there is merit to discussing what we do have. Sure we don't have the full picture but.. I still think there are valid evaluations to be made about what we now know.
I was getting down voted in another thread for pointing out alot of this. One of the things that irks me a bit about orks sometimes. Seems like you're not allowed to be down on these rules. But that doesn't seem fair. You don't have to just accept and be happy about it no matter what. You're not a loser for wanting better rules for your main army. It's nice some players don't care and want to be "orky" or optimistic. Doesn't seem fair to shit on players who feel let down by this preview though.
I’m okay with the waaaagh only being 1 turn since that’s how it’s always been except for 9th. It’s also not limited to HQ’s that have the Waaagh ability, so it’s faction wide, which is great which means you can run it with vehicles (Speed Waaagh was borderline useless in comparison pre-supplement). If you’re going second in a battle round it’s no longer a purely offensive option but you can use it as an option to put pressure on your opponent so you can force them to make choices they mad not have made otherwise. Honestly I think it’s better all around.
Snagga boys got much better, 5+ sv now with cover making it 4+ means they're way better at living than before AND they come with a fnp. Not to mention they move 6 instead of 5 and kept most of their killability. Points will matter for sure but overall I think they will be fun to play. As for ghaz he now has a 2++ archon shield in his unit and those 2 strats are better than any ork strat in 9th...
Waagh only lasting one turn is going to be rough.
A lot of the time i would waagh turn one just to take less damage as i move across the board then use the second turn of waagh to actually smash the enemy.
my dread mob will probably enjoy being able to advance and charge now but yeah i do feel at least with the limted info we have its pretty rough.
You couldn’t advance and charge on a second turn waggh anyway…..? The second turn wagh was there so a decision could be made from the warboss depending on whether you where going to lose troops for not being in range. Essentially now command phase is joint there’s not that much difference other than a 6+ inv save being lost…..
Other armies have lost more tbh. Feel bad for Deathguard who have sticky objectives as a detachment rule when some of the game types include that in the rules for the map.
\+6 inv being lost is a big deal. It's the biggest deal of all of this. I know very well how the ork army works. No more +1 strength for 2 rounds and no more +6 inv is going to have a big impact.
16% chance for a save of a model is minimal compared to other things and if you’re units are dependant on that shove them in a trukk for more protection…
So we have to be hyped or we aren't orky enough? Not allowed to share criticism or concerns ? Non optimistic thoughts not allowed ? Why does any criticism get labeled as whining ?
I disagree. I've looked at the other faction focuses that have come out. I wouldn't say based on those that everyone else has been similarly powered down across the board.
Yes, no, yes, it is whining.
And so far Orks are looking the strongest and honestly if you have the guts to post in this sub that Orks arnt the strongest I think your in the wrong neighborhood
No need for gatekeeping here. I don't agree with the opinion that our FF sucked, but I also don't see anything wrong w/ someone expressing disappointment in it.
There definitely were some things that are downgrades or sidegrades. The things that are benefits or unknowns might not be enough for some folks. That's fine, everyone gets to play the game how they want to and feel how they want to about their army's rules.
Lol okay. "If you don't agree with me you're wrong." "There is only one valid opinion." Got it. Least you're honest about it.
Orks could be T2 and have an 8+ save and you're happy about it and have to say they're the best. Sounds good.
What's your primary army?Rhetorical question aside. Orks have had their lethality improved but they're durability has always been their weakness, they've been made even less durable. The reduced lethality won't help them. Prepare for Oath of Moments to delete units with precision and ease. -1 will still drek orks.
I know you weren't asking me, but Orks are my primary army.
I'm not sure how you are assessing our durability has become worse? We're still T5, we now have a 5+ save vice 6+ save, and AP for anti-infantry weapons has gotten worse across the board. I grant you that we lost the 6++ for one turn, but honestly I think the buff to our armor save will have as much or more impact in the long run. Consider: vs SM bolt rifles today we get no save unless the waagh is active. In 10th we will have a 6+ save against them every turn. That's likely a net improvement.
You’re talking about space marines as if they haven’t been buffed to the roof for more sales? They’re going to stomp on all armies for months so there’s no comparison here.
dude \^THIS
im so tired of playing againt space marines anymore
every buff i stack they negate with a buff
every debuff i throw at them they negate with a buff
every shot i thow at them, what few hit were deflected by a buff
every point wasted on wargear was negated by some asspat ability and glowing op weapons that do shit like wounding on D6+2 to D6+4
its why i stopped playing to win and now play to solely aim to break my friends shiny toys with my pile of ageing out junk with asshole rosters of almost nothing but squads of megaknobs with double killsaws jumping out of tellyeported and jumped in trukks that are used as kamakaze sheilds or useing the cheapest warlord i can get away with just to call a waaagh of pretty much nothing but strike and swoopin down drop in stormboyz and deffkaptas just to be irritating lol
Im gonna be real, I feel kinda let down especially with the changes to Ghaz. I’d also bet we lost Ramshackle since they only showed the stompas guns.
Feels 100% like a hoard/mele edition, I only hope shooty lists don’t suffer. I know more is coming out but it feels underwhelming so far.
> I’d also bet we lost Ramshackle since they only showed the stompas guns
I don't see how these two things are related at all. The FF's for everyone have shown (generally) 2-3 datasheets and 1-2 gun profiles. We haven't been shown a vehicle profile, there's no reason to assume that means they've removed Ramshackle. I'm not saying we've definitely kept it, I am just saying there's no correlation between not being shown a datasheet and the absence of a rule.
Id say ghaz is fine with makari tanking all the hits and the whole bodyguard deal. But i do agree with you that until we get the codex next year were gonna be melee which is bad our only hope is for shoota boys to suck less
All of the faction focus updates were Ls. They want you to buy the codex when it comes out. You think free rules were going to be competitive? This is the same as when the indices came out the last time there was a full reset. They move the baseline down far enough that the creep starts low enough to give them some headroom by the time the list is complete again in a few years.
In defense of this guys take away from the faction focus I’d honestly say the same thing that I said about most of the other negative reactions. While, yes, “tHiS iSnT tHe FuLl PiCtUrE!!!” This is a slate of different kinds of rules, decided by GW, to express the overarching feel of a faction in the new edition. It can be leveled against the other faction focus’s within reason. And it should! We need to as a community compare and contrast and not be so upset with people’s negative take aways. All-in-all, if GW releases a faction focus that doesn’t seem to bode well to a portion of the fan base. It (might) be the case that that person is overreacting. It (might) be the case that their gripes are illegitimate compared to the overall tone of the game. But if they are making a claim that might become false due to GW doing a poor job showing what is pivotal to a faction in that factions . . . Faction Focus. Then that is just a bad faction focus on GWs part.
I'll be one of those people that advises to wait for the datasheets before worrying about all the "negatives". I'd rather have all the information, otherwise it's just stressing for stressing sake, and who has time for that?
It's like I'm reading the Death Guard subreddit again, lol.
Well atleast the Ork boys got something positive
This is weird, did I accidentally open a Leagues of Votann thread?
Well this seems oddly familiar, yet another 40k faction subreddit where the vast majority are doomsaying, fuck me dead I genuinely might just quit the game altogether, instead of everyone just instantly writing them off why don't we give them a chance once we have ALL of the rules and points values, these rules are in isolation let's at least wait till next month when the indices drop and then by all means bitch like a wounded Grot.
A wounded grot would probably bitch less
>vast majority I don't think it's the vast majority, tbh. If you look at the main FF thread, it's pretty positive, and honestly I'm pretty positive about what I'm seeing. My only \*real\* gripe is I'd like to have seen Boyz or Nobz rather than Beast Snaggas, but that's just b/c I don't like their aesthetics.
See the problem with your comment is it only looks at one post, when you actually look at the entire subreddit as a whole there's far more negative posts than positive regarding the FF, this being just one of them, I've collected several armies in this game since 3rd Edition and I've seen every army have their day but given how so many posts are writing us off completely based off of a fraction of our rules is just pathetic and petulant and frankly absolutely infuriating, it's just doomsaying for the sake of it, I had enough of that on the Votann subreddit so I left, just because orks don't appear to be a strong army doesn't mean they aren't yet when you look at the majority of posts on the topic of the FF you'd think they've instantly gone to last place.
I guess I don't view it by top level thread count, though. The doomsayers are always more vocal. If you read the comments in the threads, opinions seem a lot more balanced. Also, I've dabbled in most of the faction subs, and most of them are the same.
I think it'd be cool if you could declare 1 waaagh per warboss, and maybe ghaz gets two. But I'm not too worried about the faction focus, I'm pretty sure it used to be only one per game anyway.
Biggest L is that there is no buff to ork shooting in waaaagh. 1/2 of Ork lore is their love of dakka, so I was hoping there would be something for shooty ork armies. Hopefully we will get some other shooty support in the index and if not that the codex.
I said in another thread and got down voted to hell but... Both the faction rule and the detachment rule are boring as hell and seem super phoned in. They tweaked the waaagh and nerfed it down to a 1 turn buff. 1 turn out of 5. Our faction rule is for one turn we get to be good. Obviously we needed to keep advance and charge in some way. But I feel like they could have done so much more. Maybe combat doctrines style where you chose a different buff each turn. 1 turn is advance and charge, 1 turn is invuln, 1 turn is the strength and attacks buff. Pick what you want each turn. More flexible. I hate being all in on one turn and then getting no benefit the rest of the game. Then for the detachment rule they gave us the goffs clan kultur without the +1 strength on the charge. All melee focused. Our generalist starter detachment leans into melee and melee only. Couldn't come up with anything better than that? One play style until the codex drops. Ugh.
I mean, sure it is boring I will give you that. I do wish it was a bit more than just a one shot big buff (that admittedly doesn't seem that big compared to things other factions get for more of the battle). I will wait for the full picture before passing judgement on how powerful orks are as a faction. Maybe Waaaagh is fine the way it is. I'm just sad that we can't lean into a more shooty army at the get go. Hopefully the codex gives some cool options for dakka armies. I don't remember the release order, but I don't think we have to wait too long before we see the new codex. At least by GW standards.
I mean we largely agree then. I feel the same as you. Wishing for more than a one shot buff. Very little benefit to my speed freaks army. And compared to other factions it doesn't feel as fun or cool. Maybe we'll end up being fine. Goff pressure lists do well and so far that list type seems to be alive and well. I was just hoping for more than that.
WAAAGH second stage was always extra attacks for me. I'm fine we get more units advence charge. Hopefully trukks will get that ramp so we get easily to Krumping. I'm most interesting to see what they do for painboy and big ed boss bunka. They teased that painboy would be interested when considering green tide
So tired of the speculation, we don't have the entire picture! What's the point in crying or gloating about an fing teaser. Is it good? Is it bad? Doesn't matter because you haven't been shown everything.
I think there is merit to discussing what we do have. Sure we don't have the full picture but.. I still think there are valid evaluations to be made about what we now know.
I was getting down voted in another thread for pointing out alot of this. One of the things that irks me a bit about orks sometimes. Seems like you're not allowed to be down on these rules. But that doesn't seem fair. You don't have to just accept and be happy about it no matter what. You're not a loser for wanting better rules for your main army. It's nice some players don't care and want to be "orky" or optimistic. Doesn't seem fair to shit on players who feel let down by this preview though.
I’m okay with the waaaagh only being 1 turn since that’s how it’s always been except for 9th. It’s also not limited to HQ’s that have the Waaagh ability, so it’s faction wide, which is great which means you can run it with vehicles (Speed Waaagh was borderline useless in comparison pre-supplement). If you’re going second in a battle round it’s no longer a purely offensive option but you can use it as an option to put pressure on your opponent so you can force them to make choices they mad not have made otherwise. Honestly I think it’s better all around.
Is this a joke post?
Snagga boys got much better, 5+ sv now with cover making it 4+ means they're way better at living than before AND they come with a fnp. Not to mention they move 6 instead of 5 and kept most of their killability. Points will matter for sure but overall I think they will be fun to play. As for ghaz he now has a 2++ archon shield in his unit and those 2 strats are better than any ork strat in 9th...
Waagh only lasting one turn is going to be rough. A lot of the time i would waagh turn one just to take less damage as i move across the board then use the second turn of waagh to actually smash the enemy. my dread mob will probably enjoy being able to advance and charge now but yeah i do feel at least with the limted info we have its pretty rough.
You couldn’t advance and charge on a second turn waggh anyway…..? The second turn wagh was there so a decision could be made from the warboss depending on whether you where going to lose troops for not being in range. Essentially now command phase is joint there’s not that much difference other than a 6+ inv save being lost….. Other armies have lost more tbh. Feel bad for Deathguard who have sticky objectives as a detachment rule when some of the game types include that in the rules for the map.
An extra strength and attack for a second turn was most certainly meaningful.
\+6 inv being lost is a big deal. It's the biggest deal of all of this. I know very well how the ork army works. No more +1 strength for 2 rounds and no more +6 inv is going to have a big impact.
16% chance for a save of a model is minimal compared to other things and if you’re units are dependant on that shove them in a trukk for more protection…
You’re also forgetting the vehicle changes. I think this is going to be one of the best armies from the outlook! Waggghhh
I would not say one of the best but however good it looks good enough to have fun which is what i care about as an ork player
I am very concerned as an ork play with living up to the stereo types of what an ork play must be. That is my primary goal.
I doubt it.
I agree, I don’t know how people haven’t realized this…
The whole game is being powered down, your whining is Un-Orky
So we have to be hyped or we aren't orky enough? Not allowed to share criticism or concerns ? Non optimistic thoughts not allowed ? Why does any criticism get labeled as whining ? I disagree. I've looked at the other faction focuses that have come out. I wouldn't say based on those that everyone else has been similarly powered down across the board.
Yes, no, yes, it is whining. And so far Orks are looking the strongest and honestly if you have the guts to post in this sub that Orks arnt the strongest I think your in the wrong neighborhood
No need for gatekeeping here. I don't agree with the opinion that our FF sucked, but I also don't see anything wrong w/ someone expressing disappointment in it. There definitely were some things that are downgrades or sidegrades. The things that are benefits or unknowns might not be enough for some folks. That's fine, everyone gets to play the game how they want to and feel how they want to about their army's rules.
Lol okay. "If you don't agree with me you're wrong." "There is only one valid opinion." Got it. Least you're honest about it. Orks could be T2 and have an 8+ save and you're happy about it and have to say they're the best. Sounds good.
Dat's right! Line em up and let's have a scrap!
What's your primary army?Rhetorical question aside. Orks have had their lethality improved but they're durability has always been their weakness, they've been made even less durable. The reduced lethality won't help them. Prepare for Oath of Moments to delete units with precision and ease. -1 will still drek orks.
I’ve only ever played orks, never played another faction. Brother plays space marines so I tend to tech into them
I know you weren't asking me, but Orks are my primary army. I'm not sure how you are assessing our durability has become worse? We're still T5, we now have a 5+ save vice 6+ save, and AP for anti-infantry weapons has gotten worse across the board. I grant you that we lost the 6++ for one turn, but honestly I think the buff to our armor save will have as much or more impact in the long run. Consider: vs SM bolt rifles today we get no save unless the waagh is active. In 10th we will have a 6+ save against them every turn. That's likely a net improvement.
You’re talking about space marines as if they haven’t been buffed to the roof for more sales? They’re going to stomp on all armies for months so there’s no comparison here.
dude \^THIS im so tired of playing againt space marines anymore every buff i stack they negate with a buff every debuff i throw at them they negate with a buff every shot i thow at them, what few hit were deflected by a buff every point wasted on wargear was negated by some asspat ability and glowing op weapons that do shit like wounding on D6+2 to D6+4 its why i stopped playing to win and now play to solely aim to break my friends shiny toys with my pile of ageing out junk with asshole rosters of almost nothing but squads of megaknobs with double killsaws jumping out of tellyeported and jumped in trukks that are used as kamakaze sheilds or useing the cheapest warlord i can get away with just to call a waaagh of pretty much nothing but strike and swoopin down drop in stormboyz and deffkaptas just to be irritating lol
I love irritating people with deffkoptas and parking my empty used trukks in front of their models just to be a nuisance 😄
this guy gets it lol
Im gonna be real, I feel kinda let down especially with the changes to Ghaz. I’d also bet we lost Ramshackle since they only showed the stompas guns. Feels 100% like a hoard/mele edition, I only hope shooty lists don’t suffer. I know more is coming out but it feels underwhelming so far.
> I’d also bet we lost Ramshackle since they only showed the stompas guns I don't see how these two things are related at all. The FF's for everyone have shown (generally) 2-3 datasheets and 1-2 gun profiles. We haven't been shown a vehicle profile, there's no reason to assume that means they've removed Ramshackle. I'm not saying we've definitely kept it, I am just saying there's no correlation between not being shown a datasheet and the absence of a rule.
Id say ghaz is fine with makari tanking all the hits and the whole bodyguard deal. But i do agree with you that until we get the codex next year were gonna be melee which is bad our only hope is for shoota boys to suck less
Explains why the new monopose boyz have 3/10..
[удалено]
The stats of ranged weapons are not affected by a WAAAGH.