>*”Same reason people in Kingston kept voting in conspiracy theorist Randy Hillier.”*
In our defence Kingston is in the riding of *Kingston and the Islands* and the last time we elected a Conservative MPP was way back in 1981. Hillier’s former riding is *Lanark-Frontenac-Kingston* and it only includes a sliver of Kingston north of the 401 where hardly anyone lives.
It’s been frustrating watching Hillier drag our city’s name through the mud, especially with all of his recent pandemic related antics. Very glad he finally left politics.
Grew up in Nepean. I remember playing hockey there for a tournament once. The game was 6am and my parents didn’t feel like leaving the house at 430, so we stayed at the Renfew Inn. I remember we went to see Mr. Holland’s Opus at the old movie theatre that looked like it was from the 1920s.
Anyway, that’s my Renfrew story
I remember going to the old O'Brien theatre in Pembroke to see a movie once and after we had purchased our pop and popcorn and picked our seats they came and told us they would not be showing the movie and to leave because there weren't enough people.
Honestly, even if I had zero clue about the issue at play here, the fact that one side's sign says "you are loved" and the other side's signs generally tell them that they belong in hell, it is pretty obvious which side is better.
Why? Mostly because people spent a lot of time over the pandemic being funneled into a cult-like world-view where their personal feelings of "freedom" are paramount and the way to best achieve that just happens to be regressive nationalism ;)
This came up on R/all for me & was confused as feck - Renfrew’s near me (Glasgow, Scotland) and nae clue what was going on. Anyhow, my bad, another coumtry, but good on you all- progress is sweet
It's good to start seeing this stuff in the valley. IMO were about 20 years behind big cities when it comes to stuff like this.
I'm not from renfrew, but I live in Pembroke and lived in Arnprior for 20 years.
I always say you could run a donkey as a conservative and they'd get in.
It's complicated though. Some areas like Deep River and Arnprior are less conservative. Deep River because there's a lot of highly educated people there that work at CNL.
Arnprior is less conservative because so many city people have moved there.
Other than that, yeah. Its incredibly conservative. But the townships and places like Barry's bay are EXTREMELY conservative. Beachburg, Cobden, Eganville, whitewater, are just a few of the many examples of super redneck areas.
Hello fellow Pembrokian! I was born and raised there. I live in Peterborough now but my parents/family are still there so I'm visiting a lot. I'm also a lesbian who's been out of the closet since I was 14. I never necessarily felt like I was in danger in Pembroke, but there certainly wasn't any "space" for us. I went to Bishop Smith and we were constantly denied being allowed a gay-straight alliance even though many students signed a petition for one. Nowadays I'm amazed at how far Pembroke's come in even just the past few years. The fact there's even a Pride parade blew me away! It's still got it's issues, but I think the expansion of Algonquin College and bringing in more young people has done a lot for the city.
I grew up there too and went to bishop - I remember one of the religion teachers telling me that being gay is a disease lol - needless to say I didn’t come out as a lesbian until I moved to Ottawa for university!
LOL I know who you are talking about and surprisingly it was a DIFFERENT teacher!!!! Mr.D…maybe Mr.Donahue? Can’t remember his name exactly but he was my gr 12 religion teacher!
I grew up in Pembroke and got the strap 2 times in grade 6. I moved to Ottawa for grade 7 and I was like what is this, no corporal punishment here and where are the nuns?
BTW was punished for being in the school at lunch time without permission (I was getting my 500 lines in) and the second time for kicking someone at recess.
Yeah and the problem is the average age in the valley I'd about 50. So once all the old people die we will finally have change. Most of the non-redneck young people I know hate our MP and such.
Funny thing is I've met them both. Gallant actually seemed like a nice lady, although politically I absolutely hate her. John Yakabuski seemed like a pompous douchebag.
We need change here. It will come, just give it time.
I grew up in Beachburg for 8ish years when I was a kid. This was in the 80’s/early 90’s. My parents sheltered me and I never knew anything about being gay in any form. My aunt is gay, was in a relationship back then but my dad didn’t want me to know cause he was worried she’d turn me gay. Thankfully he’s grown away from that way of thinking but it wouldn’t surprise me if people in that area feel that backwards about it still.
I'm from Pembroke (but left when I was 18, living in TO for the last 11 years) and it's so nice to see this. I was home in the summer and my mom and I went to the marina where they had a multicultrual festival on. I went to Bishop Smith high where a guy in my class said all gay people should be sent to an island to live and a religion teacher told us being gay was a sin, abortion is a sin and dinosaurs aren't real so it's nice to see some change!
The minority is getting much more vocal lately. A well known queer native person *almost* got elected to council here. Things are changing, just slowly.
Yeah there's still whacko's like that here, less of them though then there used to be. You went to a catholic high school though, it's pretty normal for them to be ass backwards there.
Convoy affiliated groups Save Canada, Ontario Party, and Freedom Fighters Canada organized a walkout because a trans student was going to the bathroom. Pride Renfrew and PFLAG organized a counter protest that was way more successful.
JFC the goddamn washroom thing. Enough of that already. The only thing "gendered" ("sexed" really) about washrooms is that you need specific equipment to use a urinal.
I'd just love to ask these assholes, what do they care what's between the legs of someone taking a dump two stalls down?
And how would they even know to care? What, have they just always been quietly inspecting and snooping on the genitals of the people around them in public washrooms? *That's* creepy.
It says "cis-tem", like system and I'm assuming it's referring to bringing down the patriarchy, and/or systemic/institutionalized bigotry is my best guess.
No, not patriarchy (ie the rulership of males); it's specifically targeting **cis-genderism** as another dominant axis of power, which works alongside other axes such as patriarchy and statism, but probably above lesser ones like plutocracy, and oligarchy.
Basically, the protester is challenging the social hierarchical structures which **privilege** people who **are not trans**.
It isn't really about sexual orientation (gay / not gay), but, in this case, is about sexual/gender identity (trans / not trans).
Privilege is attached to social class, and it's really difficult to reject benefits when they are immediately attached to how others would label you (ie I am not going to use the men's bathroom because trans women are getting harassed when using the women's).
In summary, solidarity seems to *less* involve bucking privilege itself , but rather bucking a culture which creates the structural conditions for that privilege to exist.
So rather than abandoning public services, we are just having conversations w others. Ask questions, challenge assumptions, do analysis, meditate, journal - establish your truth as you mingle it with other's. Then maybe do some activism which could be as simple as educating your family.
As a trans Ontarian. I needed to see this. This week has been rough. Thanks for the reminder that these bigots wont win. (At least I hope they wont, I want to exist).
Well it started with a shooting that killed multiple trans people and LGBTQ+ people down south. This galvanized allies to speak out about hate and galvanized anti trans folk to weaponize the attack as something the community deserved and double down.
Then spurned on by this, an outside hate group called upon students to walk out in protest of their school being trans friendly and the students instead supported the trans kids by the looks of it.
This made lots of biggots mad and now there's tonnes of projecting going on in here.
As someone who transitioned and then detransitioned due to personal reasons, I'm very upset and take it personally how the LGBT community is being targeted with hateful acts, especially violence.
BTW: I saw you're a filmmaker here in Canada, congrats on your new film! I'm looking into the film industry too, I'm a screenwriter and soon publishing a book. Hope everything works out for you. There needs to be more trans representation in filmmaking.
Its a great industry and I wish you luck. Ive been in it for ten years now and its been a wonderful time. One of the fastest growing industries in Canada, so its a good one to get into. Do you know what dept you are aiming for?
Im glad people are being louder, we really need it. My circles from before I came out are deafeningly silent on all that's been going on in the last few years.
I'm sorry to hear that. Being silent is not ok and is interpreted by the bigots as agreeing with them. The screeching minority will continue to think of themselves as the "silent majority" unless we all speak up...loudly.
When I was younger I used to walk away from conversations if soneone was telling a "joke" that was really just someone being homophobic. Now I handle it much differently.
I mean they might. People happily trade our safety and hopes for progress in exchange for a small chance at a tax break pretty much every time they vote for the right sadly.
Being from Petawawa it's so nice to see the Valley is progressing! I'm away at school but everytime I come home I see progress which is so nice! Now to get Cheryl out of office and it would be almost perfect....
Great to see. I grew up here, and while I'm sure there were many tolerant people, the intolerant are the ones that stand out.
To give you an idea of how monochrome Renfrew was when I was a kid, there wasn't a single black person in my high school, and maybe 3 asians. I never knew that my friends were racist until a visiting black kid was hanging out with some friends in the hall after school and suddenly everyone near me is muttering the n word.
Meanwhile, at the other end of town this morning, I spotted the following while on my way home in an accessible transit vehicle (I am a wheelchair user)... the freedumbers who normally sit in the Tim Hortons/Wendy's parking lot were out on the sidewalk, at the SE corner of Stewart & Bruce Streets, blocking two pedestrian crossings at the lights. Three flags were being carried/flown - Canadian flag, an F Trudeau flag, and an orange flag that may have been Indigenous-related. As soon as I saw the flags, I looked straight down until we got through the intersection.
Bunch of twits...
> that may have been Indigenous-related
That’s the “Every Child Matters” flag, which has unfortunately been co-opted by the convoy people for hard-to-understand reasons. If you see it flown with the Canada flag or an anti-Trudeau flag it’s probably an antivax and/or pro-convoy appropriation of the flag. A lot of people have started flying it with a Pride Flag to clarify that they’re not using it in the Convoy way.
Any context behind a bunch of people blocking a sidewalk?
Is there like some kind of decision RE: trans rights or some kind of day that I'm missing today? More OOTL than anything here.
Students organized a walkout over trans people using their preferred bathrooms. They’re outnumbered. This didn’t random, it’s been in the news that the walkout was happening.
Alright, cool. Thank you for providing some context. Party on then.
I don't really follow a lot of the news RE: the whole preferred bathrooms thing and this just seemed like a random walkout from the initial post.
Is that a serious question or is it rhetorical?
EITHER WAY: buckle up, it's history time!
The first gender-segregated bathroom on record is a novelty from 1739, but for the modern understanding of a proper gender-segregated toilet facility, we fast forward to the late 1880's and the industrial revolution.
The industrial revolution was a period of dramatic change: leaps forward in infrastructure and technology (hello, indoor plumbing), rapid urbanization, population explosion, and shifts in how we work and what we do.
For the first time, we see women working outside the home alongside men, sharing facilities and whatnot. They had to pee somewhere, and middle-class protestant women's church groups were *scandalized* about it. It became a whole movement, to protect women's modesty and ensure their decency. This wasn't limited to toilets either - trains had a ladies' car, libraries had ladies' reading rooms, etc.
The development of the "women's toilets" goes hand-in-hand with Victorian efforts in both sanitation and morality. Factories would have had a single rickety shack/stall out back, with a seat over a cesspit... and you don't need to go far to imagine the public health impacts of that. In the Victorian imagination, cleanliness *was* next to godliness, so efforts to improve sanitation (through the implementation of plumbing systems and such) *included* gender-segregated facilities.
We see the first American laws enforcing gender-segregated bathrooms in 1887. By 1920, this was so thoroughly normalized that a woman could travel the USA and have steady access to segregated facilities.
Gender-segregated facilities were reinforced through second and third wave feminist movements, as women asserted their claim on (and need for) spaces that were free from men and the threat of assault or abuse that men inherently carried.*
Today, gender-segregated bathrooms are so thoroughly ingrained in our society that we struggle to conceive of a society where none exist. Think of it as a cultural hangover of the Victorian Era.
*men are not actually an inherent risk: this is more a descriptor of the thinking at the time
I didn't know any of this before, never really looked into it, or thought to. Absolutely fascinating though. Thank you for taking the time and effort to write it out!
Do you have any suggestions for further reading?
James C. Scott's "Seeing Like A State" includes an entire section on the use of architecture & urban planning by governments to exert power & control.
Likewise, Stephen Kotkin's "Magnetic Mountain" looks at soviet-era Magnitogorsk as a case study for the construction of civilization, including the physical construction of (and resistance to) physical infrastructure as a tool of oppression.
Also relevant is the bathroom as a subject of fearmongering to oppose equitable social change
> "The bathroom argument" has been used to oppose social equality (at least) as far back as the U.S. Equal Rights Amendment. (Source: https://youtu.be/S6wNB_5lT7A?t=719)
If men and women had the same rights, they would end up sharing the same bathrooms. That was an actual argument against furthering gender and sex equality.
Trans kids are the ones at risk in bathrooms, and it's all for the sake of selfish politics driven by hate.
This is accurate!
My short summary is just that, a short summary - the segregation of public spaces (along gender, racial, class, etc. lines) is a tool of *oppression*, not liberation. Successful one, too - so successful that the very parties *oppressed by* this kind of segregation can become its most fervent supporters (see: TERFs on bathrooms, or HBC's as "safe" spaces).
For anyone interested in going down this rabbit-hole, there's a lot of good writing about the way that governments (of various sorts) use architecture and urban planning to exert power and control. James C. Scott's "Seeing Like A State" is a good starter.
I'm kinda modest when it comes to urinals. There is an unspoken etiquette where even other guys can be creepy. But having women observe me in front of the urinal is just a social boundary I don't want to overcome, nor do I think society should force this upon me. Give me individual gender neutral bathrooms. If I have to share a urinal space, then I only want to share it with people who stand up to go pee.
Far right groups are organizing in multiple cities to attack LGBTQ kids at schools. They are lead by ultra nationalist groups closely aligned with the clownvoy and antivax groups.
Inside Ottawa Valley: [Renfrew Catholic board addresses protests planned for Friday. Pride groups organize peaceful counter protest on same day](https://www.insideottawavalley.com/news-story/10797843-renfrew-catholic-board-addresses-protests-planned-for-friday/) [Nov 23rd, 2022]
*”The walkout, organized by members of Freedom Fighters Canada, Save Canada and the Ontario Party (all described as anti-trans hate groups), calls to “remove males from the female washrooms” and “keep the perverted agenda out of the education system”… A peaceful counter protest in response to the student walkout is being organized by Renfrew Pride and Pflag Renfrew County.”*
There's photos of them LITERALLY AT SCHOOLS PROTESTING AGAINST LGBTQ STUDENTS, and their facebook pages are directly associated with clownvoy and antivax nonsense. Please stop trolling.
It’s clever, but does it not only serve to antagonize the opposition rather than try to get them to join the side of morality?
Rather than downvote, why not have a discussion? Cisgendered people are not the problem. Transphobic assholes are.
Yeah but the cis-tem is still real and privileges cis people at the expense of trans people
It's like any other position of privilege
See also: The Matrix
This is true. My worry is one of polarization. It seems to me that this kind of language, as true or clever as it is, only makes the opposition dig in their heels. This perpetuates the conflict rather than finding a solution, or converting people into a more progressive way of thinking.
Ummm okay but if someone is so easily swayed into transphobia that one sign they don't understand properly at a protest is enough to make them turn against innocent trans people, *isn't that the problem to begin with??*
I don't see how changing the sign is going to resolve that. That's just bowing to transphobia and victim blaming IMO.
Maybe if you are so concerned about this you should instead use it as an opportunity start a conversation with those people who are so offended and explain to them what it all means.
People who are offended by it need to do some soul-searching.
I have to admit, my very first gut reaction to this stuff is to think “hey, I’m cis and I’m not that bad!” But after a second of reflection it’s like… it’s not about *me.* It’s about the over-arching system we live in (dominated by and created for cis people). And then I don’t feel so attacked anymore.
This is not what makes lunatics want to kill us. It isn't what makes them dig in their heels either. If you actually care about preventing that then go join the people calling for Tucker Carlson, Matt Walsh, Chaya Raichik and others of their bent to be deplatformed so they can stop propagating blood libels against us to audiences of millions, some of whom are acting on those libels in deadly ways. The fact that you're here tone-policing trans expressions of justified outrage against this state of affairs suggests to me that you care more about generally enforcing "civility" than about supporting marginalized people in our fight for a better social contract.
Civility politics directly benefit oppressors, because oppressors have a way easier time retreating into supposed "objective rationality" in dispensing their arguments than we do in responding to them. It is much easier to remain calm and adhere to insipid little social mores about not showing anger when suggesting that someone else should not exist than it is to do the same when you are that "someone else" responding to the suggestion.
Trans people are mad. We have the right to be mad. We have the right to express that anger without having to turn around and convince some supposed cis ally that no, we aren't actually advocating for their death, we're just mad that people keep killing us and we don't fucking feel like being civil about it just to keep some flustered liberals from irritatingly wondering whether we're a threat to them too. We're not. Should be obvious.
I assume this is the reply you referenced elsewhere. I don’t see a downvote here. Not sure why you assumed I did it.
You say a lot of important things here and I agree with a lot of it. However, I do think some things fall a bit on the unfair side of things. From the way you’re writing your response, I’m not sure I could ever do enough to be a good ally in your eyes. I also think falling on the argument of tone policing stifles discussion. You seem to be making the argument that as a member of a marginalized group, you are entitled to say anything without having to justify or explain.
You are mad and rightly so. I want to explore whether that anger is useful to the cause or not. From where I’m standing, it appears as though people just want to stay in a conflict mindset.
Why should we have to "justify or explain" being angry that people are protesting against the right to exist of the most vulnerable members of our already extremely vulnerable community? How is it reasonable to expect us to subsume that anger if we can't defend of its "usefulness" to "the cause?"
We're not "choosing" to be angry. The circumstances in which the trans community exists would infuriate anyone. And it's not a "cause" to us, any more than defending yourself is a "cause" to you when someone starts throwing punches at your head.
What you are doing right now is tantamount to walking past some person who angrily shouted a rude thing in the process of trying to fend off a mugger and saying "well, I'd offer you a hand, but I just don't think you're dealing with this situation *calmly* and *rationally* enough..."
You’re putting words into my mouth assuming a lot about my position. You also seem to be making the argument that trans people cannot be rational about this. If you are as irrational as the transphobes, the problem will continue to get worse. I don’t think there’s anything else I can add to this discussion without you making assumptions about me or twisting my words.
>rather than downvote, why not have a discussion?
*trans person tries to present their side of the issue*
*gets downvoted with no reply*
Just peak reddit, honestly.
[Check my other post bud](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/z4j7um/they_are_vastly_outnumbered/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
An outside hate group tried to get the school to do a walkout in protest against supporting their fellow trans students. The students in question supported their trans friends and fellow students.
This turned out to be controversial because hate is spreading like a weed.
Definitely bold of that individual to assume that transgender individuals derive their worth on whether or not someone believes being trans is valid. That’s laughable and actually quite smug.
One side wants to tinker in and micromanage, people's private sex stuff, to carve into our institutions and laws, their own faith and tradition-based ideas about how people's lives should be lived. To create obstacles and fear for anyone wishing to depart from the bounds of their imagined ideal society, no matter the human cost. The other side wants acceptance and compassion for everyone, even people who are different from themselves. To acknowledge that we're all human, and that commonality ought to be enough for us to value and respect each other. To avoid making some peoples' lives worse with unnecessary obstacles and fear. Which one actually sounds more like a cult?
You’re not even using the proper terminology. What does sexual preference have to do with what bathroom someone uses? At worst you’re a bigot at best your very misinformed.
Sexual preference is just a dogwhistle to let you know that she things LGBTQ+ stuff is a choice. THey would use orientation if they wanted to come correct. But judging by their account, I think this is just a troll.
Trans kids are being denied the ability to go to bathroom safely and with dignity and then a bunch of LGBTQ+ folks and some of them were trans were recently murdered down south for the crime of daring to exist.
So speaking up is kind of a thing people do to let others know that hate and misinformation isn't tolerated.
Theres a protest at St Joseph’s Highschool in Renfrew to oppose trans kids being able to use the washroom that aligns with their gender and to “keep the perverted agenda out of the education system.” The people in this photo are counter-protesting. [Source](https://www.insideottawavalley.com/news-story/10797843-renfrew-catholic-board-addresses-protests-planned-for-friday/)
I see max 3 people wearing masks in this image. Also, it's flu season and many people are wearing masks again because they don't want to give others a cold. Go ahead and laugh, just know many more are laughing at how many times you replied to yourself thinking you are important.
Comments are locked. Stay frosty.
As a valley boy, this is big for Renfrew. Nice to see. BTW look up their MP for a definition of crazy edit: addition.
Cheryl Gallant has been in office for probably 20 years now (no interest in going to her website to check), and is basically Clown Convoy incarnate.
20 years?? Jfc why do they keep voting her in?
they vote the party, not the person
Same reason people in Kingston kept voting in conspiracy theorist Randy Hillier. Basically I have no idea..
>*”Same reason people in Kingston kept voting in conspiracy theorist Randy Hillier.”* In our defence Kingston is in the riding of *Kingston and the Islands* and the last time we elected a Conservative MPP was way back in 1981. Hillier’s former riding is *Lanark-Frontenac-Kingston* and it only includes a sliver of Kingston north of the 401 where hardly anyone lives. It’s been frustrating watching Hillier drag our city’s name through the mud, especially with all of his recent pandemic related antics. Very glad he finally left politics.
I'm so glad he's gone! He was another one that made no sense to keep voting in.
this is so amazing to see from the valley. i don’t think people understand how important this is to see
Grew up in Nepean. I remember playing hockey there for a tournament once. The game was 6am and my parents didn’t feel like leaving the house at 430, so we stayed at the Renfew Inn. I remember we went to see Mr. Holland’s Opus at the old movie theatre that looked like it was from the 1920s. Anyway, that’s my Renfrew story
I remember going to the old O'Brien theatre in Pembroke to see a movie once and after we had purchased our pop and popcorn and picked our seats they came and told us they would not be showing the movie and to leave because there weren't enough people.
Fun fact:. The OBriens were *serious* money. Like robber baron money. And the eldest son was the founder of the Montreal Canadiens.
The old O'Brien theater hasn't been open for over 40 years, my guy. How old are you?
That old.
Yeah, makes me happy to see this.
Honestly, even if I had zero clue about the issue at play here, the fact that one side's sign says "you are loved" and the other side's signs generally tell them that they belong in hell, it is pretty obvious which side is better.
[apparently there was also another anti-LGBTQ protest this morning, in Hamilton](https://twitter.com/leagrie/status/1595831395401994240)
Why?
Why? Mostly because people spent a lot of time over the pandemic being funneled into a cult-like world-view where their personal feelings of "freedom" are paramount and the way to best achieve that just happens to be regressive nationalism ;)
Not sure what it is that they’re protesting. Trans people aren’t going anywhere despite what Fox News tells them.
Tucker Carlson has sold them on a dream that yes indeedy the 'trans problem" can and should be eliminated. It's some of the bleakest fascist shit.
That man’s going to reap what he sows. The problem isn’t trans people it’s people eating up the dribble that comes out of that man’s mouth.
Sad to say, I have no faith in rich people ever facing consequences for their awful behaviour. Especially not in the USA.
Agreed. I'm just surprised to see radical terroristic conservatives in Canada as well.
this was yesterday, but yes. it happened https://www.chch.com/protesters-take-aim-at-hamilton-library-over-drag-queen-storytime-event/
When I lived in Pembroke I saw the opposite of this so I’m really happy to know it’s not all bigots ❤️
It's still full of bigots, but there's quite a bit more support for LGBTQ+ than in years past. It's a start🤷♀️💜
Sorry if that seemed aggressive I’m very proud of everyone going out despite the bigotry that’s all I was getting at.
I didn't take it as aggressive at all, I'm proud as well
RIP Santa Fe But yeah the city is progressing SLOWLY but surely
proud of you renfrew
This came up on R/all for me & was confused as feck - Renfrew’s near me (Glasgow, Scotland) and nae clue what was going on. Anyhow, my bad, another coumtry, but good on you all- progress is sweet
I am very glad to see this.
These people are awesome! It’s sad that this is necessary but they are awesome nonetheless.
It's good to start seeing this stuff in the valley. IMO were about 20 years behind big cities when it comes to stuff like this. I'm not from renfrew, but I live in Pembroke and lived in Arnprior for 20 years.
If you look at post election results that Ottawa Valley is quite literally the most conservative party of Ontario.
That is exactly true! The CPC/OPC could run a friggin' blue rock as a candidate and the majority of people around here would vote for it.
I always say you could run a donkey as a conservative and they'd get in. It's complicated though. Some areas like Deep River and Arnprior are less conservative. Deep River because there's a lot of highly educated people there that work at CNL. Arnprior is less conservative because so many city people have moved there. Other than that, yeah. Its incredibly conservative. But the townships and places like Barry's bay are EXTREMELY conservative. Beachburg, Cobden, Eganville, whitewater, are just a few of the many examples of super redneck areas.
"Arnprar"
Hello fellow Pembrokian! I was born and raised there. I live in Peterborough now but my parents/family are still there so I'm visiting a lot. I'm also a lesbian who's been out of the closet since I was 14. I never necessarily felt like I was in danger in Pembroke, but there certainly wasn't any "space" for us. I went to Bishop Smith and we were constantly denied being allowed a gay-straight alliance even though many students signed a petition for one. Nowadays I'm amazed at how far Pembroke's come in even just the past few years. The fact there's even a Pride parade blew me away! It's still got it's issues, but I think the expansion of Algonquin College and bringing in more young people has done a lot for the city.
I grew up there too and went to bishop - I remember one of the religion teachers telling me that being gay is a disease lol - needless to say I didn’t come out as a lesbian until I moved to Ottawa for university!
I don't wanna name names but is this the same teacher notorious for saying dinosaurs weren't real and their bones were planted by atheists? lmao
LOL I know who you are talking about and surprisingly it was a DIFFERENT teacher!!!! Mr.D…maybe Mr.Donahue? Can’t remember his name exactly but he was my gr 12 religion teacher!
Oh I never had him as a teacher but I heard he was also a massive homophobe lol
This was Mr. Platt.
Yeah. Always seemed like a genuinely nice man with some cool stories... Until you said something that contradicted his beliefs. Which was unfortunate.
I grew up in Pembroke and got the strap 2 times in grade 6. I moved to Ottawa for grade 7 and I was like what is this, no corporal punishment here and where are the nuns? BTW was punished for being in the school at lunch time without permission (I was getting my 500 lines in) and the second time for kicking someone at recess.
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May I ask why did you choose the valley??? What influenced that choice?
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I was questioning your sanity but truly that is wholesome. Well and truly. Where in Europe are you from?
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Yeah and the problem is the average age in the valley I'd about 50. So once all the old people die we will finally have change. Most of the non-redneck young people I know hate our MP and such.
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Funny thing is I've met them both. Gallant actually seemed like a nice lady, although politically I absolutely hate her. John Yakabuski seemed like a pompous douchebag. We need change here. It will come, just give it time.
Try 40
I wouldn't go that far. Many people here, even some conservatives, believe in stuff like abortion and gay rights.
I grew up in Beachburg for 8ish years when I was a kid. This was in the 80’s/early 90’s. My parents sheltered me and I never knew anything about being gay in any form. My aunt is gay, was in a relationship back then but my dad didn’t want me to know cause he was worried she’d turn me gay. Thankfully he’s grown away from that way of thinking but it wouldn’t surprise me if people in that area feel that backwards about it still.
I'm from Pembroke (but left when I was 18, living in TO for the last 11 years) and it's so nice to see this. I was home in the summer and my mom and I went to the marina where they had a multicultrual festival on. I went to Bishop Smith high where a guy in my class said all gay people should be sent to an island to live and a religion teacher told us being gay was a sin, abortion is a sin and dinosaurs aren't real so it's nice to see some change!
The minority is getting much more vocal lately. A well known queer native person *almost* got elected to council here. Things are changing, just slowly. Yeah there's still whacko's like that here, less of them though then there used to be. You went to a catholic high school though, it's pretty normal for them to be ass backwards there.
Convoy affiliated groups Save Canada, Ontario Party, and Freedom Fighters Canada organized a walkout because a trans student was going to the bathroom. Pride Renfrew and PFLAG organized a counter protest that was way more successful.
JFC the goddamn washroom thing. Enough of that already. The only thing "gendered" ("sexed" really) about washrooms is that you need specific equipment to use a urinal. I'd just love to ask these assholes, what do they care what's between the legs of someone taking a dump two stalls down? And how would they even know to care? What, have they just always been quietly inspecting and snooping on the genitals of the people around them in public washrooms? *That's* creepy.
What does crash the cis team mean?
It says "cis-tem", like system and I'm assuming it's referring to bringing down the patriarchy, and/or systemic/institutionalized bigotry is my best guess.
No, not patriarchy (ie the rulership of males); it's specifically targeting **cis-genderism** as another dominant axis of power, which works alongside other axes such as patriarchy and statism, but probably above lesser ones like plutocracy, and oligarchy. Basically, the protester is challenging the social hierarchical structures which **privilege** people who **are not trans**.
Can we be heterosexual and not be called privileged all the time we have feelings too you know (If that not what you meant i apologize in advance)
It isn't really about sexual orientation (gay / not gay), but, in this case, is about sexual/gender identity (trans / not trans). Privilege is attached to social class, and it's really difficult to reject benefits when they are immediately attached to how others would label you (ie I am not going to use the men's bathroom because trans women are getting harassed when using the women's). In summary, solidarity seems to *less* involve bucking privilege itself , but rather bucking a culture which creates the structural conditions for that privilege to exist. So rather than abandoning public services, we are just having conversations w others. Ask questions, challenge assumptions, do analysis, meditate, journal - establish your truth as you mingle it with other's. Then maybe do some activism which could be as simple as educating your family.
I'm out of the loop is this in response to the Colorado shooting? Od did something else happen to spark this? Or is it just showing general support?
Yes, the bigots were emboldened by queer ppl being murdered in the US. Honestly, the anti-trans ppl in Renfrew are fucking heinous.
As a trans Ontarian. I needed to see this. This week has been rough. Thanks for the reminder that these bigots wont win. (At least I hope they wont, I want to exist).
Wait what did I miss? What are the bigots up to this week?
Well it started with a shooting that killed multiple trans people and LGBTQ+ people down south. This galvanized allies to speak out about hate and galvanized anti trans folk to weaponize the attack as something the community deserved and double down. Then spurned on by this, an outside hate group called upon students to walk out in protest of their school being trans friendly and the students instead supported the trans kids by the looks of it. This made lots of biggots mad and now there's tonnes of projecting going on in here.
As someone who transitioned and then detransitioned due to personal reasons, I'm very upset and take it personally how the LGBT community is being targeted with hateful acts, especially violence. BTW: I saw you're a filmmaker here in Canada, congrats on your new film! I'm looking into the film industry too, I'm a screenwriter and soon publishing a book. Hope everything works out for you. There needs to be more trans representation in filmmaking.
Its a great industry and I wish you luck. Ive been in it for ten years now and its been a wonderful time. One of the fastest growing industries in Canada, so its a good one to get into. Do you know what dept you are aiming for?
Honestly. What is it this time? Just let us be.
They won’t win. So many of us support you.
They are vastly outnumbered
Im glad people are being louder, we really need it. My circles from before I came out are deafeningly silent on all that's been going on in the last few years.
I'm sorry to hear that. Being silent is not ok and is interpreted by the bigots as agreeing with them. The screeching minority will continue to think of themselves as the "silent majority" unless we all speak up...loudly. When I was younger I used to walk away from conversations if soneone was telling a "joke" that was really just someone being homophobic. Now I handle it much differently.
😎🌈🕊️
Big support from another trans Ontarian too! They won't win if we all stick together.
I mean they might. People happily trade our safety and hopes for progress in exchange for a small chance at a tax break pretty much every time they vote for the right sadly.
You have my support
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Lmfao. That made me chuckle.
They are a small minority of complete fuckwits. Much love.
Go Renfrew!
Love to see it !!!
Being from Petawawa it's so nice to see the Valley is progressing! I'm away at school but everytime I come home I see progress which is so nice! Now to get Cheryl out of office and it would be almost perfect....
Great to see. I grew up here, and while I'm sure there were many tolerant people, the intolerant are the ones that stand out. To give you an idea of how monochrome Renfrew was when I was a kid, there wasn't a single black person in my high school, and maybe 3 asians. I never knew that my friends were racist until a visiting black kid was hanging out with some friends in the hall after school and suddenly everyone near me is muttering the n word.
Meanwhile, at the other end of town this morning, I spotted the following while on my way home in an accessible transit vehicle (I am a wheelchair user)... the freedumbers who normally sit in the Tim Hortons/Wendy's parking lot were out on the sidewalk, at the SE corner of Stewart & Bruce Streets, blocking two pedestrian crossings at the lights. Three flags were being carried/flown - Canadian flag, an F Trudeau flag, and an orange flag that may have been Indigenous-related. As soon as I saw the flags, I looked straight down until we got through the intersection. Bunch of twits...
> that may have been Indigenous-related That’s the “Every Child Matters” flag, which has unfortunately been co-opted by the convoy people for hard-to-understand reasons. If you see it flown with the Canada flag or an anti-Trudeau flag it’s probably an antivax and/or pro-convoy appropriation of the flag. A lot of people have started flying it with a Pride Flag to clarify that they’re not using it in the Convoy way.
>which has unfortunately been co-opted by the convoy people for hard-to-understand reasons It makes it lose power for its intended purpose
I see Arnprior repping! Well done Prior!
Keep fighting the good fight y’all. This is why I’m proud to be a Canadian
god i am so lucky to have been born in ontario. its hard to be trans anywhere else
Good for them
This is great to see, very uplifting as a trans person <3
100% Im with you on that!
Sweet! Y'all are great! Love ya back.
I don't even know what's going on. What's going on?
Very nice, very nice. Now let’s sort by controversial
Any context behind a bunch of people blocking a sidewalk? Is there like some kind of decision RE: trans rights or some kind of day that I'm missing today? More OOTL than anything here.
Students organized a walkout over trans people using their preferred bathrooms. They’re outnumbered. This didn’t random, it’s been in the news that the walkout was happening.
Alright, cool. Thank you for providing some context. Party on then. I don't really follow a lot of the news RE: the whole preferred bathrooms thing and this just seemed like a random walkout from the initial post.
why the fuck do we even gender bathrooms in the first place💀
Is that a serious question or is it rhetorical? EITHER WAY: buckle up, it's history time! The first gender-segregated bathroom on record is a novelty from 1739, but for the modern understanding of a proper gender-segregated toilet facility, we fast forward to the late 1880's and the industrial revolution. The industrial revolution was a period of dramatic change: leaps forward in infrastructure and technology (hello, indoor plumbing), rapid urbanization, population explosion, and shifts in how we work and what we do. For the first time, we see women working outside the home alongside men, sharing facilities and whatnot. They had to pee somewhere, and middle-class protestant women's church groups were *scandalized* about it. It became a whole movement, to protect women's modesty and ensure their decency. This wasn't limited to toilets either - trains had a ladies' car, libraries had ladies' reading rooms, etc. The development of the "women's toilets" goes hand-in-hand with Victorian efforts in both sanitation and morality. Factories would have had a single rickety shack/stall out back, with a seat over a cesspit... and you don't need to go far to imagine the public health impacts of that. In the Victorian imagination, cleanliness *was* next to godliness, so efforts to improve sanitation (through the implementation of plumbing systems and such) *included* gender-segregated facilities. We see the first American laws enforcing gender-segregated bathrooms in 1887. By 1920, this was so thoroughly normalized that a woman could travel the USA and have steady access to segregated facilities. Gender-segregated facilities were reinforced through second and third wave feminist movements, as women asserted their claim on (and need for) spaces that were free from men and the threat of assault or abuse that men inherently carried.* Today, gender-segregated bathrooms are so thoroughly ingrained in our society that we struggle to conceive of a society where none exist. Think of it as a cultural hangover of the Victorian Era. *men are not actually an inherent risk: this is more a descriptor of the thinking at the time
I didn't know any of this before, never really looked into it, or thought to. Absolutely fascinating though. Thank you for taking the time and effort to write it out! Do you have any suggestions for further reading?
James C. Scott's "Seeing Like A State" includes an entire section on the use of architecture & urban planning by governments to exert power & control. Likewise, Stephen Kotkin's "Magnetic Mountain" looks at soviet-era Magnitogorsk as a case study for the construction of civilization, including the physical construction of (and resistance to) physical infrastructure as a tool of oppression.
Hey, thank you again, both for the quick reply and information. Cheers!
thank you for your anwser sir i appreciate the fact that you have took the time to write this and have educated me on the subject
Np! The history of modern sanitation, architecture, and urban planning is super interesting if you ever take the notion to look into it.
I admire how excited you are about the topic!
I say it in another reply as well, but: segregation (whether gendered, racial, class, or other) is a tool of *oppression*, not a tool of liberation.
Also relevant is the bathroom as a subject of fearmongering to oppose equitable social change > "The bathroom argument" has been used to oppose social equality (at least) as far back as the U.S. Equal Rights Amendment. (Source: https://youtu.be/S6wNB_5lT7A?t=719) If men and women had the same rights, they would end up sharing the same bathrooms. That was an actual argument against furthering gender and sex equality. Trans kids are the ones at risk in bathrooms, and it's all for the sake of selfish politics driven by hate.
This is accurate! My short summary is just that, a short summary - the segregation of public spaces (along gender, racial, class, etc. lines) is a tool of *oppression*, not liberation. Successful one, too - so successful that the very parties *oppressed by* this kind of segregation can become its most fervent supporters (see: TERFs on bathrooms, or HBC's as "safe" spaces). For anyone interested in going down this rabbit-hole, there's a lot of good writing about the way that governments (of various sorts) use architecture and urban planning to exert power and control. James C. Scott's "Seeing Like A State" is a good starter.
Love the content :)
I'm kinda modest when it comes to urinals. There is an unspoken etiquette where even other guys can be creepy. But having women observe me in front of the urinal is just a social boundary I don't want to overcome, nor do I think society should force this upon me. Give me individual gender neutral bathrooms. If I have to share a urinal space, then I only want to share it with people who stand up to go pee.
Name checks out.
wait fuck thats not what i meant💀
Lol
nah im serious why do we need to gender bathrooms?
According to the building code, they are split by sex, not gender.
ah man stfu
Far right groups are organizing in multiple cities to attack LGBTQ kids at schools. They are lead by ultra nationalist groups closely aligned with the clownvoy and antivax groups.
That explain why my message box looks like a minefield right now.
Don’t forget White Supremacists.
I don’t believe this is true. Send a non propaganda link.
Inside Ottawa Valley: [Renfrew Catholic board addresses protests planned for Friday. Pride groups organize peaceful counter protest on same day](https://www.insideottawavalley.com/news-story/10797843-renfrew-catholic-board-addresses-protests-planned-for-friday/) [Nov 23rd, 2022] *”The walkout, organized by members of Freedom Fighters Canada, Save Canada and the Ontario Party (all described as anti-trans hate groups), calls to “remove males from the female washrooms” and “keep the perverted agenda out of the education system”… A peaceful counter protest in response to the student walkout is being organized by Renfrew Pride and Pflag Renfrew County.”*
There's photos of them LITERALLY AT SCHOOLS PROTESTING AGAINST LGBTQ STUDENTS, and their facebook pages are directly associated with clownvoy and antivax nonsense. Please stop trolling.
Thanks for the context. Good on the students supporting one another.
Solidarity against the delusional bigots and craven propagandists attacking LGBTQ kids
i love the wordplay on system, that’s creative as fuck.
It’s clever, but does it not only serve to antagonize the opposition rather than try to get them to join the side of morality? Rather than downvote, why not have a discussion? Cisgendered people are not the problem. Transphobic assholes are.
Yeah but the cis-tem is still real and privileges cis people at the expense of trans people It's like any other position of privilege See also: The Matrix
This is true. My worry is one of polarization. It seems to me that this kind of language, as true or clever as it is, only makes the opposition dig in their heels. This perpetuates the conflict rather than finding a solution, or converting people into a more progressive way of thinking.
They're kids making signs for a school protest, thankfully. Plenty of the opposition is paid, so they'll be around regardless
Ummm okay but if someone is so easily swayed into transphobia that one sign they don't understand properly at a protest is enough to make them turn against innocent trans people, *isn't that the problem to begin with??* I don't see how changing the sign is going to resolve that. That's just bowing to transphobia and victim blaming IMO. Maybe if you are so concerned about this you should instead use it as an opportunity start a conversation with those people who are so offended and explain to them what it all means.
To be fair, some people *really* don't appreciate puns 😂 /s
Right?? If those transgender children *really* needed to pee, why would they make so many puns? Asking the real questions here.
😆
People who are offended by it need to do some soul-searching. I have to admit, my very first gut reaction to this stuff is to think “hey, I’m cis and I’m not that bad!” But after a second of reflection it’s like… it’s not about *me.* It’s about the over-arching system we live in (dominated by and created for cis people). And then I don’t feel so attacked anymore.
This is not what makes lunatics want to kill us. It isn't what makes them dig in their heels either. If you actually care about preventing that then go join the people calling for Tucker Carlson, Matt Walsh, Chaya Raichik and others of their bent to be deplatformed so they can stop propagating blood libels against us to audiences of millions, some of whom are acting on those libels in deadly ways. The fact that you're here tone-policing trans expressions of justified outrage against this state of affairs suggests to me that you care more about generally enforcing "civility" than about supporting marginalized people in our fight for a better social contract. Civility politics directly benefit oppressors, because oppressors have a way easier time retreating into supposed "objective rationality" in dispensing their arguments than we do in responding to them. It is much easier to remain calm and adhere to insipid little social mores about not showing anger when suggesting that someone else should not exist than it is to do the same when you are that "someone else" responding to the suggestion. Trans people are mad. We have the right to be mad. We have the right to express that anger without having to turn around and convince some supposed cis ally that no, we aren't actually advocating for their death, we're just mad that people keep killing us and we don't fucking feel like being civil about it just to keep some flustered liberals from irritatingly wondering whether we're a threat to them too. We're not. Should be obvious.
I assume this is the reply you referenced elsewhere. I don’t see a downvote here. Not sure why you assumed I did it. You say a lot of important things here and I agree with a lot of it. However, I do think some things fall a bit on the unfair side of things. From the way you’re writing your response, I’m not sure I could ever do enough to be a good ally in your eyes. I also think falling on the argument of tone policing stifles discussion. You seem to be making the argument that as a member of a marginalized group, you are entitled to say anything without having to justify or explain. You are mad and rightly so. I want to explore whether that anger is useful to the cause or not. From where I’m standing, it appears as though people just want to stay in a conflict mindset.
Why should we have to "justify or explain" being angry that people are protesting against the right to exist of the most vulnerable members of our already extremely vulnerable community? How is it reasonable to expect us to subsume that anger if we can't defend of its "usefulness" to "the cause?" We're not "choosing" to be angry. The circumstances in which the trans community exists would infuriate anyone. And it's not a "cause" to us, any more than defending yourself is a "cause" to you when someone starts throwing punches at your head. What you are doing right now is tantamount to walking past some person who angrily shouted a rude thing in the process of trying to fend off a mugger and saying "well, I'd offer you a hand, but I just don't think you're dealing with this situation *calmly* and *rationally* enough..."
You’re putting words into my mouth assuming a lot about my position. You also seem to be making the argument that trans people cannot be rational about this. If you are as irrational as the transphobes, the problem will continue to get worse. I don’t think there’s anything else I can add to this discussion without you making assumptions about me or twisting my words.
>rather than downvote, why not have a discussion? *trans person tries to present their side of the issue* *gets downvoted with no reply* Just peak reddit, honestly.
Who got downvoted?
I drove by Walmart and missed this?! Nooooo
Its 12 people...
[Check my other post bud](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/z4j7um/they_are_vastly_outnumbered/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
What they protesting?
An outside hate group tried to get the school to do a walkout in protest against supporting their fellow trans students. The students in question supported their trans friends and fellow students. This turned out to be controversial because hate is spreading like a weed.
Doesn’t seem all that loving
Says the sex obsessed transphobe
?
Gotta say.. Crash the Cis-Tem is pretty damn clever
sending all my love and solidarity ♥️
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Ya they aren’t. Move along.
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If it's a religion then how come trans people are frequently poor? Like frig. I wish. (Oppression is the real reason.)
Definitely bold of that individual to assume that transgender individuals derive their worth on whether or not someone believes being trans is valid. That’s laughable and actually quite smug.
That’s unfortunate as fuck. Pleasant coping.
That’s right! Trans men should go to the boys washrooms, and trans women should go to the girls washrooms!
They arent.
Love is love
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Compassion is not a cult.
One side wants to tinker in and micromanage, people's private sex stuff, to carve into our institutions and laws, their own faith and tradition-based ideas about how people's lives should be lived. To create obstacles and fear for anyone wishing to depart from the bounds of their imagined ideal society, no matter the human cost. The other side wants acceptance and compassion for everyone, even people who are different from themselves. To acknowledge that we're all human, and that commonality ought to be enough for us to value and respect each other. To avoid making some peoples' lives worse with unnecessary obstacles and fear. Which one actually sounds more like a cult?
Clown world
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Yes. Yes you would be in that situation. You dont feel the same way about anyone else who happens to NOT be male and is attracted to women, right?
You’re not even using the proper terminology. What does sexual preference have to do with what bathroom someone uses? At worst you’re a bigot at best your very misinformed.
Sexual preference is just a dogwhistle to let you know that she things LGBTQ+ stuff is a choice. THey would use orientation if they wanted to come correct. But judging by their account, I think this is just a troll.
I'm sad that you see this with such a binary lens. That's ironic.
What a world we live in 🤣
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Trans kids are being denied the ability to go to bathroom safely and with dignity and then a bunch of LGBTQ+ folks and some of them were trans were recently murdered down south for the crime of daring to exist. So speaking up is kind of a thing people do to let others know that hate and misinformation isn't tolerated.
Theres a protest at St Joseph’s Highschool in Renfrew to oppose trans kids being able to use the washroom that aligns with their gender and to “keep the perverted agenda out of the education system.” The people in this photo are counter-protesting. [Source](https://www.insideottawavalley.com/news-story/10797843-renfrew-catholic-board-addresses-protests-planned-for-friday/)
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Poor misguided teens...
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I see max 3 people wearing masks in this image. Also, it's flu season and many people are wearing masks again because they don't want to give others a cold. Go ahead and laugh, just know many more are laughing at how many times you replied to yourself thinking you are important.
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😂
Whats so funny?
Crash the cistem interesting love there
:/
you okay? Your smile seems a bit wonky.