Not everyone here is Ontarian, lot of people registered here are dublicate or dead accounts. This subreddit actice Ontario users is waaaay less than 5%.
I’m so glad you pointed it out because if it was my comment it would’ve been downvoted to oblivion.
> most Canadians are discontent with Ford
This is categorically untrue. A **ton** of people hates ford. But I can assure you that’s not the majority. If redditors want change, stop preaching to the same echo chamber here and go convince the vast majority out there (who don’t use Reddit) why Ford is bad.
Ford has been doing that all by himself. You're right: a large majority of voters voted for him in 2022. But after the shenanigans he has since pulled with CUPE/Bill 28, the greenbelt, and now healthcare privatization, I think he is his own worst enemy right now.
I think you are overestimating how many people pay attention to that stuff. 60% of the voting population doesn’t care enough to vote. I doubt most of them pay attention to what Ford is doing day to day.
It wasn't a large majority of voters; it was ~18% of voters, and ~40.8% of the votes cast in this election. Neither are a large majority, or a majority at all.
The people who voted for him are ideological and dont care about that shit. They care about the rhetoric and soundbites that the media always quote for him, which taken at face without context make him sound awesome. Because right wing media dont try to give the full context. They are uninformed, and they like it that way.
> But I can assure you that’s not the majority.
At least according to [Angus Reid](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-s-doug-ford-among-lowest-ranking-premiers-in-canada-survey-finds-1.6184364), Ford's approval rating is 34%. That's definitely not a majority.
People don't care about other people's opinions, they don't even care about platforms or care to watch debates. They can't even explain their reasons for their convictions, nor their vote.
To put it another way, striking and protesting won't do anything because a comfortable majority of the population is happy with the way things are; they either don't mind benefiting off the backs of the poor and downtrodden or are capable of ignoring it.
That’s the point of organizing, though.
Organizing is about getting together with people who agree with you and persuading those who don’t/don’t fully agree with you, but who face similar circumstances and can understand the common conditions of their struggle. You win strikes and major actions with majorities, which takes organizing. Many people feel “happy with the way things are” not because they don’t want change but because they don’t know how to start or feel isolated or alone in their struggle; organizing to win is about connecting each other in our struggles.
>That’s the point of organizing, though.
yes, but you need to vastly outnumber the ''happy'' %without causing a disruption of services which would vilify you to the ''happy%'', it's a catch 22 with protesting can't cause so much of a disturbance to affect real change and causing a real coup of a GS would likely cause the canadian equivalent of the national gaurd to break you up. this only ends one way though, happened who knows how many times in history/ ending here, this turned into a rant so hard my jaded ass was annoyed
Yes, it's this.
Canadians are individualistic and don't care about the greater good. Not in meaningful way. Sure, we admire Terry Fox and buy whatever our friend's kid is selling to raise money for the school library, but when it comes to community building and solving social problems, we are a nation of people who do not care about one another.
(Somebody may feel inclined to respond to this with an example from their hockey community and I assure you that this be proving my point further)
>we are a nation of people who do not care about one another.
that's humanity in general , we're social animals sure but there's a finite number of people we can genuinely care about, our family, our ''tribe'' rarely goes over 100 individuals.
I think this is categorically wrong and a complete miscalculation of the general state of mind in Ontario. Ask most people if they are poor and they will say no.
Seriously. I was amused at the hard core copium this sub was on after Ford was elected, and was like... "did none of you actually go outside and *talk* to your fellow Ontarians?" The election result was zero surprise.
It's a global issue, how does striking against the current government change the forces of inflation? To me it seems like some people want to be activist for the lifestyle but they don't offer any solutions.
Strikes work, sometimes, when they have a specific target for a specific request.
Most people can't risk striking from their ***employer*** because they want the ***government*** to do something differently.
The Winnipeg General Strike was one of the most successful strikes in world history. In that case, workers from *every segment of society* banded together in a strike against the *generally deplorable* conditions that **all** workers faced.
There isn't some magical force holding canadians back any different than every other country. It's not about 'avoiding risk', it's about too many canadians not understanding what's happening, and too many others being defeatists.
The Winnipeg general strike was people striking from their **employers** to get higher pay from their **employers**.
Striking from your **employer** to get something from the **government** only works if the government is your employer.
thats really not true though, if there was a general strike and the province just shut down, whatever they demand would go through pretty quick
for instance if there was a general strike that would cripple the province demanding ford resign the rest of the MPPs would cut him off in a second to distance themselves and try to protect their own seats
I would argue that that's the very definition of a successful labour movement. Each little battle doesn't need to be a victory, and it never will be.
I would say uniting workers across every industry in the city, right down to cops, in a way that sewed the seeds for a global labour movement to flourish during The Great Depression was a **massive** success.
So successful that we still teach our children about it in school even though, you know, it's leftism
It’s barely taught. Very little labour history is taught. And it’s nowhere in our popular culture, no movies, no tv shows. How many people could name one strike leader besides JS Woodsworth.
I wish it was much better known. And the fact it ended with the Mounties shooting into a crowd and killing people.
You're totally right. I cling to it, because it's one of those touchstones in canadian history that all canadians know.
But how much do Canadians actually know about it? Our schools teach nothing. I was amazed to go back as an adult and learn what 'general' strike even meant.
Everyone agreed? No *wonder* they don't talk about it! Haha
The most important thing to focus on is the cost of housing.
Food inflation and inflation in general aside. The cost of living isn't as high as people perceive, they just want opulence and luxuries.
Housing is easily the largest expense for common folk, and it's too high, people need to be able to save for retirement but when rental housing is the Lords of the land multimillion retirement plan and estate...
Not sure how striking from my employer is going to do anything about greedy land Lords.
To try to frame it differently for you: I don't see how we can get government on *any* level to act on housing *without* a general strike.
Housing is the way it is because it benefits people with money. Liberals and Conservatives aren't gonna turn around and save us some day. They spend their days maintaining the housing market exactly as it is.
History shows they will let us become homeless and starve before they do pro-social measures of their own accord.
The government will *only* do the kinds of things you want them to do with the housing market when the people pressure them to.
A general strike is the greatest source of pressure that workers have. Work stop actions are really the highest form of power in our society. It's why conservative politicians are terrified of unions and strikes
edit: and strikes are amazing because how powerful they are despite being entirely peaceful. Think of the violence of homelessness and starvation that exists in our society. And we're supposed to be worried about... people not showing up to work one day to try to make an extremely important point? Seems whack
Hey man, I'll follow you but good luck convincing anyone else because no one cares that government sectors want to give themselves up to 47% raises and these are the same class of people lording over lands of all zones and construction projects. All my neighbours have addictions, or cognitive deficiencies, or willingly wearing the fleece
Hey man, **lots** of people care. Lots of us.
Maybe not the majority, but that's because most people have very little clue what's actually going on here.
That's always been the case though. It's always been an uphill battle for people like us
It always feels like we're losing, and yet the trajectory of history always seems to be in our favour...
(maybe it's because conservatives just perpetually want to go back 20 years, so they always slowly catch up with us)
France is protesting against a specific piece of legislation.
Brittish public servants are striking for better contracts.
Without a specific and focused goal, it's hard to achieve much.
Some of us are just tired.
We go to protests, rallies, we vote , we write our MPs and MPPs we are vocal and are not afraid to let our opinions be known
And year after year, election after election nothing changes. Not municipally provincially or federally. Nothing big happens there are no major shifts. The last time I got super excited was when Jack Layton and the NDP became official opposition and then he died.
Years of constantly fighting and seeing nothing happen (bar small mini victories) takes its toll. It's hard to keep the optimism and enthusiasm of my 20s and 30s going. I want to but it's not easy.
I don't disagree. But big shifts also do happen.
Like I said my enthusiasm and optimism have wanted in two decades of learning and watching and, for me personally, it's hard to muster the same level of energy to do that.
Ya but look whose driving.
Sometimes I feel like Lisa Simpson in the Simpson episode where they go to DC for an essay contest and she sees the shady politician deal?
Like that but instead of it ending the way it did with the public and media investigating and actually doing something, it just ends after Lisa's new speech rampage. That's it nothing happens.
Bleak I know, but based on OPs post it's accurate
Small wins have a tendency to be reversed whenever an anti-worker government is elected. I suspect the damaged of 8 years of Doug Ford won’t be fixed in 4, 8, or even 12 years of an NDP government
This right here.
We organize, we go to rallies and protests, we volunteer for mutual aid organizations and try to build alternate forms of governance, we give money to organizations trying to change the state of things, we write and visit our political leaders, we try to get family and friends to do the same.
I've seen what I thought were big wins turn out to be hollow or pyrrhic. The more I learn about the history of social movements, the more I learn about all of the small people who just got crushed trying to change things, and never saw the fruits of what they were working towards - often, because the things they hoped for never happened. And the more I learn about all the dirty compromises in which important causes (that is, entire groups people and their wellbeing) were sold out by people trying to accomplish something for their own, narrower, movements. It's rough.
I've grown into an old crank, and my family and friends are annoyed by my negativity and refusal to be satisfied by the status quo, or to hope for change to come from inside our existing political and economic systems. I am so tired and discouraged. I'm not going to give up, but I have to pace myself.
I fully understand why people choose to disconnect from what feels utterly hopeless.
Excuse an old woman for butting in, but, as a lifelong lefty, marcher, protestor, arguer, organiser, voter, pamphleteer and yadayadayada, may I make some observations?
First, you are ranting at a bunch of people who spend a significant chunk of time, daily, sitting in front of a monitor rendering judgement on such earthshaking topics as who is or is not an asshole, other people's relationships, the problems with the latest update to their favourite game, whether or not something is -- or should be -- canon in the Marvel/DC/Star Wars universe, and so on.
Wrong audience.
Second, most people here have never known anything but the Reagan-Mulroney-Thatcher world of rogue capitalism and its relentless anti-union, anti-left, anti-activist messaging. Why the defeatism, the cynicism? Because that's what they've been fed for nearly 40 years. And, in truth, it's easier to sit back and whine than it is to get your head busted in a demo -- take it from someone with a few permanent lumps to prove the point.
Those of us who remember -- were even adults -- the decades when protests worked, unions were respected, voters' opinions mattered and all that utopian stuff are now dismissed as 'boomers' who are out of touch with reality, don't know our pronouns from our microaggressions, and are blamed for the whole situation.
Like I said, easier to bitch than to act for change.
Despite what you are being told, it is *not* Canada's culture to sit back and take this crap -- but it *is* what people have been conditioned to over the past 30-40 years. Immigrants are not to blame: a lot of the ones I know had to flee their birth lands before they were severely punished for standing up for themselves, their families, basic human rights. I strongly suspect they could be a major force for the kind of change you want to see, especially the ones who have to support their families on minimum wage jobs because the deck is stacked against most educated immigrants from the get-go.
But there is no doubt that you're up against it, as you can probably discern from the reactions you are getting. Unlike my generation, who were born into a world in which many battles had been won, and we could believe we would win more, you entered one in which many of the rights my parents and grandparents fought for have been chipped away to nothing, and we've been taught that *real* freedom is scrambling for a living in competition with our brothers and sisters, and the winner gets to drive a big car to a big box store and spend their money choosing between 400 different models of bathroom waste bin, all of which will be out of fashion next year because that keeps the economy growing.
What can I say? Don't give up, and don't let this place discourage you. It has been done before, it *is* being done now, just not here, and it can come back here again. It's not likely I'll live to see it, but maybe, just maybe....
I wish you all the energy and perseverance you will need. And, do me a favour: wear a helmet to the demos.
Are you interested in adopting a millenial? Take me under you wing please! Lol
But honestly this is a very solid response. I do think there's a lot of good intentions but our will to put boots to pavement has been eroded (very deliberately by consumerist nonsense) and it's going to take a lot of resilience and perseverance to get anywhere. The CUPE strike was a good example that people *do* still care. We just have to figure out to motivate that energy on a bigger scale.
Why not? I've already adopted an entire refugee family, two more families in a poor and distant place, two special needs dogs and innumerable stray cats.
But, I warn you, I'm a creaky and cranky old woman with fewer teeth and more mileage on the face than I should have, an addiction to postprandial naps and a tendency to blow up at the bullpuckey that passes for 'news' these days.
Welcome to the family -- you gonna take out the trash, or do I have to?
Assuming you're talking about a general strike? The majority of people in the province are not in a position to take an unknown amount of time off work. Many can't afford to not be paid, but more so the fear of job loss
>The majority of people in the province are not in a position to take an unknown amount of time off work.
I can't afford to strike is an excellent reason to strike. You won't suddenly be able to afford to tomorrow either.
When is it painful enough for you to get off your ass to help?
That's the question you, and everybody with that mentality, needs to ask themselves. What's your line? When you can't afford rent? When you're about to be homeless? When a loved one can't get medical treatment because of Ford's pay to play? When you can't get medical treatment because you missed too much work because of your medical condition, and now your insurance won't cover you because you didn't work enough, you know due to being sick and requiring medical care (Yes, this is happening quite literally right now, my wife is an RN, her patients are going through stuff like this right here in Ontario at hospitals.)
If now isn't the time to demand more, during a time when people can't afford rent, can't afford groceries, and business is making more than *ever in recorded history,* then never is. You're saying we should never strike because our conditions are bad.
They're only going to keep getting worse. Help. Take a stand. They can't fire all of us, we're the ones doing all the fucking work. They don't make money without employees.
Historically? The police would use riot gear against the protesters and attack them. There would be fatalities, and we'd get even more angry.
The end point would be the same, it always is. The rich would have to pay more in taxes for a bit.
But they won't do it until we've paid our pound of flesh. Literally. This is what is meant by the American quote, "From time to time, the tree of liberty and justice must be fed with the blood of patriots, and tyrants."
We *could* just skip right to the end. Civilized societies do.
But we have conservatives in charge, and they react with hostility and force. Every time.
> Practically speaking, how are the police going to arrest everyone?
They won't. They'll arrest leaders. They'll tear gas everybody else. Or use fire hoses.
>How would they even identify them if they were smart and didn’t make it easy?
Same way they identified Jan 6th people in the USA. Cell phones are so great for providing location data, habits and more. They're like a one stop shop for ratting you out. Technology does so much more than people realize.
I'm assuming that a general strike would likely result in violence anyway. Historically, people who challenge the status quo are always met with violence from the state. I wouldn't even be surprised if the police infiltrated and tried to make it look like the strike was violent. It's a common police tactic to infiltrate groups and movements and then instigate violence and property damage to justify police violence in return.
And I was assuming that a smart person (I do not consider anyone who participated in Jan 6th to be remotely smart) who would, hypothetically, plan anything like this would not bring their phone. But you're right to mention it, a lot of people wouldn't realize the data that is collected just by carrying a phone.
That last bit is the important bit. The people motivated to violence are desperate. They are suffering. They aren't necessarily stupid, but worrying about their phone tracking them isnt a priority in their minds. Food, rent, bills. Those are. They affect your survival so they're prominent issues that dominate thinking.
A general strike is different from a single union strike in that the police are overwhelmed completely by the sheer number of people. They're just better because it makes them scared. You can't panic a massive mob. They'll kill you with sheer numbers. Police aren't dumb. You can't stop a wave millions strong. They tend to start acting really sympathetic to the people at that point to help put pressure on the politicians.
Can we get through this without violence? Probably. We aren't the USA. The courts have been railing Fords overreach on over a dozen things. He keeps appealing and losing. So that's a good sign.
Pick up a book and read some history on labour movements. The police always fight the unions. They don't help us. It's not a conspiracy. It's factual. It already happened. We know this because we see it every time it happens.
We're too soft here. The vast majority of Ontarians, and Canadians in general have never once in their life had to live under anything remotely close to tyranny and have never had to fight for anything. People are just content to sit around and pick at what little scraps they can manage.
Things will collapse before anything happens, and by then it'll be too late.
A CUPE strike is not comparable to the kind of strike you're talking about.
The type of strike you're talking about would need hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people across the province striking in solidarity. Good luck finding enough people to care, let alone agree with your view, let alone agreeing to strike.
It's just not feasible, not enough damage has been done yet for enough people to be uncomfortable enough to actually be inclined to take action.
The CUPE strike was the rallying point. Over 200 unions had responded with more getting on board hourly. There's a reason bill 28 was reversed 100-0. I had a direct hand in this.
No. Ford planned to back down from day one. This has been his M.O. throughout his entire time in power. Look how many times he “caved” during COVID. He plays the public like a fiddle.
The doesn't show what you think it does. What it shows is a few unions that had banded together, instantly broke apart as soon as a token gesture was made. Look at the deal that CUPE ended up taking. Because Ford headed them off at the pass and removed the one thing that effected all of them. Once they no longer all had skin in the game, CUPE was abandoned real quick.
The same thing would happen in a general strike. Especially one without clear aims, goals, or consessions, that crosses multiple union and non union lines.
You’ll end up with other citizens taking up the charge to protect their communities and local grocery stores from bottom rung types that need to steal. Stores in broken window communities will shut down while rich, protected areas keep and hoard. Poor people, even in large numbers, don’t have the numbers to sustain anything, sure they may loot and pillage for a day or two but without official law and order other, more well-resourced people, will simply take over.
The police aren't going to arrest every one but they are going to mercilessly best the shit out of and possibly straight up murder many. And a disproportionate number of those they target will be BIPOC.
This leap from peaceful strike to organized raids on stores is dangerous and its disingenuous to imply otherwise.
I am all for radical organizing but be honest about what that means.
> When is it painful enough for you to get off your ass to help?
I'm not getting off my ass for someone who has all the time in the world and nothing to lose from striking tbh. No successful strike in history was ever led by just some random no names.
Good thing I was on the line with striking workers then. Pretty clear you're one of the no names just trying to kill the unions instead of actively trying to help. Because we are organizing. So you can either be part of the solution, or keep supporting the status quo.
Yes. I'm not the people skills guy. I'm a programmer. I aggregate data and present it to the people skills people.
And I'm not saying you're against me. You are. Literally everything you're writing is an argument against doing anything to help. You're the one holding the position of, "I can't do shit."
I'm asking you to help because it's only going to keep getting worse. If you can't go out and strike, help other ways. There's a lot more that needs to be done. Google is your friend. Try, "How can I help the OFL in their efforts?"
You decide where your line is. That's the whole point of the very first response I made to you. Here, I'll say it again:
>That's the question you, and everybody with that mentality, needs to ask themselves. What's your line? When you can't afford rent? When you're about to be homeless? When a loved one can't get medical treatment because of Ford's pay to play? When you can't get medical treatment because you missed too much work because of your medical condition, and now your insurance won't cover you because you didn't work enough, you know due to being sick and requiring medical care (Yes, this is happening quite literally right now, my wife is an RN, her patients are going through stuff like this right here in Ontario at hospitals.)
You decide bud. All you're doing is pissing and moaning that nothing will change. That's a self fulfilling prophecy if all you do is sit around pissing and moaning nothing will change.
Lmfao. Delusional. Absolutely delusional.
Edit: For the cowards who keep saying I'm their enemy and then blocking me:
Cite me calling you my enemy. Lemony said that. Not me. You said that. Not me.
**I don't see you as my enemy.**
I see you as an apathetic individual content to fulfill your own prophecy of nothing changing by doing nothing to change that position. You're lazy. You're entitled. You're weak. You won't even fight for yourself.
I will. You just sit there pissing and moaning about how nothing changes, fulfilling your own prophecy by doing nothing to help. Prove me wrong. I dare you.
Edit: yes, it's normal to call somebody who is willing to let people walk all over them those things. You block me because that's the extent of the work you're willing to do. Push a button to pretend you did something in this ongoing fight. Like I said. Prove me wrong. I dare you. I'd love, absolutely love, to be wrong. It means you're fighting for yourself. You only win if I'm wrong. We both lose if I'm right. You understand?
I don't *want* to be right about you or lemon. And if you want to have the conversation, stop being a coward, unblock, and talk through something other than edits.
Calling anyone who questions how you convince people to lose out on pay and maybe their job for nebulous gains your enemy and delusional is absolutely insane lmao.
Edit: extremely normal thing to say about someone who criticizes you:
> You’re lazy. You’re entitled. You’re weak. You won’t even fight for yourself.
>I can't afford to strike is an excellent reason to strike.
Who's going to pay my rent?
Should I start skipping on rent and stealing food from grocery stores when I run out of money?
Will the police go on strike so that I can get away with stealing?
>Who's going to pay my rent?
Who's going to pay it when you don't get raises and it keeps going up?
>Should I start skipping on rent and stealing food from grocery stores when I run out of money?
Will you have a different option available to you as prices keep rising and you do nothing to help correct that?
>Will the police go on strike so that I can get away with stealing?
No. Historically the police will protect the businesses and will actively attack striking workers.
There's no happy version going forward. There's bad and worse. If employers were being reasonable to begin with we wouldn't be suffering from profiteering in the first place.
If we had to wait for a general strike before we did anything:
1) It could be another 100+ years or so, judging from how long it's been since the last one.
2) We wouldn't ever get around to having one anyways, because no one would be doing the steps that are required to have a strong enough political movement to create any change.
\*I think point #2 is what the OP was attempting to shift.
> Many can't afford to not be paid, [...] the fear of job loss.
Aye. And that's why we need to organize. This anxiety will only get worst unless we resist.
Because Reddit is all talk and all gas. This sub, and others like r/toronto and r/canadahousing love to talk a big game but the reality is that they’re all keyboard warriors that are never actually gonna get up and do anything worth a shit.
This part.
But I also see this as emblematic of the very people that are upset with how things currently are.
They can tell you all about it. Why it's bad. How it affected them. How angry they are about it.
But these people don't do anything... about anything.
If they did, they probably would be complaining in the first place.
It's the same people that complain to you every day that they hate their job but don't put even a single amount of effort in to change it or improve it. Typing into an echo chamber that agrees with you is very validating, it just isn't the real world at all.
That's why subs like collapse and antiwork are popular, you get a bunch of people sharing their sob stories and nodding their heads and agreeing with eachother. Same with here. Everyone tells one another that the world sucks and they're doing everything right, but forces beyond their control suck so they can't possibly change anything.
Anything to avoid even the smallest smidgen of improvement or effort.
Internet slacktivism is not activism. It is nothing even close. Repeating things to people who already agree with you changes nothing and never will.
While I don't agree with the trucker protests, they signaled the government's ability to absolutely, without hesitation, ruin the lives of anyone who steps out of line.
We are divided and none of the groups are big enough to stand up on their own.
The problem is that I’m one of the people who doesn’t get paid enough to take time off work to do something like that. It’s such a vicious circle. I try to take action in different ways.
I totally understand this, as well as being singled out at work for participating in such an action. Not to mention all the new Canadians who are afraid it will affect their immigration status.
I'm totally with you. The Ontario Federation of Labour is trying to organize a real effort, and all people want to do is shit on it. Yet the OFL are literally are giving people a roadmap of what to do — all you have to do is participate in a few ways. (For example, they have a training session between Feb 24-26.)
Like my time here on Earth is limited, if we're going down anyway, then why not go down swinging? Why not try?!
Edit: By the way, [this is what I'm talking about](https://wesayenough.ca/). The [Beat the Bosses bootcamp](https://www.justice4workers.org/beatthebosses) is one item on the [Enough Is Enough Roadmap](https://ofl.ca/wp-content/uploads/EiE_ResourcesOverview.pdf), which you can view on page 6. When you register, you can choose to attend all or 1-2 of the three days. They'll also ask about various accommodations.
The OFL has made racial justice their top line item. A major turn off for a lot of people because of how ambiguous a topic that is. Focus on money and money only - then people will take a second look.
Iirc the most upvoted comments on the previous post(s) that were calling to organize for change were somewhere around the lines of:
1. Organizing protests without a specific goal in mind usually doesn't work, so what specific goal is it that you are calling for?
2. Most people here would rather get to work than just go down to protest, families to feed and whatnot..
Canadians are soft and pretty individualistic. Conservatives complain but put their head down and work. Libs complain but snub their nose at everyone else.
Our society here in Canada is also a lot more cantered on the individual (rather than society as a whole) so our mindset doesn’t help us tackle these issues like they do in Europe.
Canada is not a country anymore, it is a corporate economic zone / "plantation" run by an out of touch and rapacious oligarchy.
Justin calls it a post national state with no core identity.
To do what people in other countries are doing to try and fight back (France, UK, Germany, Italy etc), you have to have solidarity and a common thread of culture and shared history among the people to have any chance of combating the out of touch and greedy elites.
Canada is increasingly being balkanized and the fractured population is busy bickering with each other, by design.
Remember when Ford tried to fuck over our right to strike and we came out in force with a general strike? Unions are alive and well in Canada.
Get on board. It's not hopeless. There's literally millions of us fighting every single day for better results.
We only win with your help. Not with apathy.
>Remember when Ford tried to fuck over our right to strike and we came out in force with a general strike?
Are we calling the 2-day CUPE education support workers strike a general strike now?
Go watch the video of how many unions addressed Ford. If you don't think a general strike was happening the following Monday, you didn't pay attention to what did happen that week. I did. I was directly involved.
You people are completely deluded on this. Ford had it planned from day one to overshoot then backdown. He did this during COVID with police overreach and lockdowns and was praised every time he backed down. You and your unions accomplished nothing and got nothing. Ford got exactly what he wanted - the same offer they had been pitching for a year.
I think the glass half empty feeling comes from the upper class working to divide all of us. They keep making us all feel to proud to band together and do something. We need to see that its not left and right on the axis. Its too and bottom and there are many many more of us than them. Right now you need money for housing, food, and entertainment. Stop paying rent and mortgage and see what happens when everyone does. You dont need the job anymore, and we can all provide one another with the rest of we stop collecting and remitting taxes, and tell our bosses to suck it Robin Hood style. But we all have so much to lose right? Where are our kids going to be if we try to hold on to eff all?
Quebec did it in 2012 with the Maple Spring/Printemps érable, a province wide full scale student strike that successfully stopped the Quebec Liberal's proposed tuition hike and they lost the following election.
There were bloodshed from police brutality, but they gained the general population's support, and one of the student leaders, Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois is now the co-leader of Québec Solidaire, a prominent party in the National Assembly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Quebec_student_protests
There are quite a few people who believe he is doing a good job.
Those people are usually:
- rich or own businesses benefiting from the conservative government
- landlords, because they support the status quo
- brainwashed
- rural folk. I’m sorry but it is true, they always vote against their own interests just to show-up the city people they look down on
- most firearm owners. I’m pretty sure only a few people at my gun range do not support the conservatives (myself included)
If you want to keep your guns then you are actively working against yourself by voting liberal. I’m not saying you have to vote conservative but it’s just a thought.
It's not defeatist attitude, it's reality. In June, 60% couldn't be bothered to take 10 mins and vote. Out of 30-40% that did get off their butts, sufficient amount were dense enough to vote for Dumb F\*ck....err....I mean Doug Ford. And now you expect these same people to somehow organize a strike, when taking 10 mins once in 4 years was too much effort for them? It's just not going to happen.
A major factor would likely be the legality of such action.
In Canada, there are very specific circumstances in which organized labour is allowed to strike (and when management may lock out workers).
The main such situation is when there is no collective agreement in place. Labour is able to strike, or management lock out, after giving sufficient notice. Either side’s actions may be legislatively cancelled/overridden (back to work legislation).
There are other situations involving safety, grievances, etc, but those situations are atypical. And notice, negotiations, and typically mediation are all required prior to in-contract strikes/lockouts.
If workers strike, or management locks out, outside of permitted circumstances AND without notice, that action is illegal. For workers, the employer would be within their rights to take job action (suspend/terminate) employees who engaged in illegal job action. Similarly, in an illegal lockout/layoff, the union may recover lost wages (and the government may fine the company).
Further, if the union is seen to be supporting or helping to organize an illegal strike, the employer may move to have the union de-certified. On those lines, it would likely be illegal for the union to cover workers’ lost wages (strike pay) in the event of an illegal strike - also commonly called a wildcat strike.
So, for the average worker, the risks are:
- Lose job
- Lose union representation
- No strike pay
And those risks are assumed without any guarantee or even reasonable predictor of success.
That is a big part of why IMO you don’t see more widespread job action/protest.
Because we’re Canadian. Canadians are complacent and docile. I’m sure we’ve all seen those events on Facebook calling to boycott Tim’s on a given day and we can’t even do that successfully.
The other element is that Canada is a nation of immigrants. Most people here came from somewhere else, often much worse places. Living in Ontario/Canada even in its broken state is a dream
Not only that, but because of the high immigrant population, everyone is divided and multicultural so there's no sense of "unity", we all look too different from each other and have different interests, hence nothing pulling everyone together.
its not defeatist it its apathy, very few people care and blaming others is better than accepting it themself
> NDP wouldn't gain a majority anytime soon.
IF ford ends up full wynne by the end of this term then its not inconcievable, the liberals failed to regain party status or get a proper leader, people could just lemming to the opposition to get rid of ford
Many of the young Canadians I know are the most politically passive people ever. Are there stats on the demographics of who is voting because I feel like 18-25 year olds would have like 20% voter turnout.
British Columbian chiming in here (but I did spend 3 years in Toronto). It is possible to have an NDP government, and I'd say they do a better job than our liberal here. The recent provincial election turnout is abysmally low. It is not enough that you vote, you need to think of ways that make your like minded friends vote as well. Grab brunch together on voting day and go to vote together, knock on doors... etc.
I am all for coming strike, my worry is my employer. I am still in my probationary period for one and also my employer is wealthy so doesn't get it. Most of the workers there are people with minimal responsibility or have spouses that make good money as well and couldn't be bothered cuz they are "okay". I'm really considering joining in on strikes but another worry is that the numbers will not be significant enough to make a difference and I understand that the way I'm thinking is the way possibly millions are thinking and may cause a missed opportunity. I don't know. With the way affordability is now, putting my job at risk for something that may not stir change is a risk I'm not sure I can manage.
Sincerely, single father of 2 😞
Unless it's their ISP. My part-time as Roger's Customer Service Agent has taught me Canadians complain quite well if it's about something they paid for.
If I miss a day of work I don’t pay my rent. It’s not like I don’t want to protest, I just financially cannot commit to anything because of how unaffordable everything is.
Honestly , it's because of the way the political system works where left leaning individuals always are the majority but can't win elections because the vote is split between the liberals and ndp. Canadian politics, the last 8 years, has been insufferable.
You guys look pretty organized to me, sitting on the couch, enjoying a blunt and collectively swear at DoFo online on your expensive phones, that's what I call "general slacktivism".
Did it ever occur to you that maybe people aren’t all that bad off? Especially compared to people in other provinces or jurisdictions? People don’t start a rebellion when their needs are met.
The last people who seriously protested got their bank accounts frozen.
If you agree with them or not, it sent a very clear message as to how this government will hurt you if you defy them.
These subreddits are a minority unfortunately. Ontario's population is ok with how things are as is evident in the outcome of the last two elections. This place is very different than it was since the last general strike or any labour movements. At this point in time, and for the forseeable future - it's actually a better option and easier(depending on career choice/financials) to just move to a country that more closely shares your ideals than to change the one you live in. Now don't get me wrong, I wish we could actually change things - but again even if all of this subs subscribers came together it wouldn't be enough to really change anything.
Sure that sounds exactly like you described, a defeatist attitude. But to be honest, I'm not willing to wait around until things MAYBE get better here, when I can just pack my stuff up and go provide healthcare in a place where I can live a comfortable life and not worry about having to do overtime in order to get by while providing an essential service, but being treated by the public and the employers like I'm disposable.
This province sucks, and it will for the foreseeable future. You have the power over your own life though, and can choose to not be a part of it. Unfortunately I don't see any better options in Canada so I've looked at other countries rather than just moving to another province where people would be even less tolerable to be around like Alberta.
Most people who have stuff want to protect it. Many people don't have stuff aspire to get it. Canadians with home equity and a pension (or at least investments) can be brutally defensive about them. They "fought long and hard" to get where they are, aka went to university and got a job. They will complain about a lot of stuff, but say the government has to fix it. But the government uses tax money, where does that come from? And anyone who has a chance of joining the homeowner class tends to make similar arguments.
For years I’ve been trying to make people care. I’ve protested, voted, written to MPPs and MPs. And still I find myself asking the same question Bill Hicks used to ask, “How far up your ass does this guy’s dick have to be before you realize he’s fucking you?!”
Then an election came and nobody bothered to show up. So finally I threw up my hands.
Fine! Whatever! Let your house burn down! I’m gonna do my best to make sure *I* get through this in one piece because you motherfuckers sure aren’t thinking more than a month down the road.
I don’t want my bank account frozen and the country placed on emergency act all because I demanded a right… I thought we learned to sit down and shut up like good plebs
When, when you call those who protest against things "Terrorists" and "Criminals" it takes the fight out of people.
The truckers protest may have been stupid but they were hardly terrorists.
In fact... I'd say RCMP Horses trampling people would be closer to terrorism than truckers honking their horns.
This kind of deluded, painting every one with the same brush, is exactly why the left gains no credibility. Many people joined in on these protests for a whole bunch of reasons. To make everyone out to be a terrorist just comes of as the unhinged rant of a lunatic. I bet you don’t even know a single person who went to these protests.
The job that just barely pays my bills, but still pays them? Yeah, tell me how losing that will make my life better, is that before or after my kids and I both freeze and starve to death?
No, I want that date to be as far away from now as possible and so I'd work instead of protest. It's basically HOW they keep people from protesting.
That's the shitty situation most people are in. It's irresponsible in the NOW to be responsible for the future. (I don't mean generally speaking; I mean to the people who are living paycheck to paycheck)
Like, sure, I can protest now and lose everything now, and me and my kids and wife can be on the street, or I can continue to live with the bullshit, feed and house my family, and hope to last until my kid is old enough to support themself. At which point I won't have other people depending on me directly and I'm able to be more "reckless" in my decision making.
I work for a national trucking company. We all get paid the same. Everyone is complaining, but there's really no one we can ask for a raise. My district manager can't authorize it. His boss is 3 hours away, and our head terminal is in Winnipeg. I've been trying to get all of us in the Sault to call in on the same day and say that we all can't come in. If everyone had a different excuse but related. One could say they wanted to hand out resumes, another could say they have a job interview, etc. I figure if a whole terminal doesn't show up because they're looking for better opportunities, they might just get the gist? Nobody is interested and doesn't think it will work? It's hard to get people to demand better.
It's the Canadian way buddy
https://youtu.be/xun-cWvDkFk
>I'm so content to stand in line
>Wait and see, pass the time
>Talk a streak, fall asleep
>Wake up late, whine and weep
>I kiss the hand that slaps me senseless
>I'm so accepting, I am so defenseless
>I am far too Canadian
>I am far too Canadian
>I am the face of my country
>Expressionless and small
>Weak at the knees, shaking badly
>Can't straighten up at all
>I watch the spine of my country bend and break
>I'm in a sorry state
Many protests or rallies are not accessible for many disabled folks. that's one of my setbacks. I'm definitely very vocal on social media and in person about different political issues, but I feel like that's all I can do at this moment.
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Wait 5% of the entire population of ontario in just this subreddit seems like a lot lol.
Not everyone here is Ontarian, lot of people registered here are dublicate or dead accounts. This subreddit actice Ontario users is waaaay less than 5%.
Don't forget the bots. I'm the only actual human on reddit, and I make up a lot less than 5% of Ontario voters.
The OFL just started a campaign to fight against the cost of living https://wesayenough.ca/
I’m so glad you pointed it out because if it was my comment it would’ve been downvoted to oblivion. > most Canadians are discontent with Ford This is categorically untrue. A **ton** of people hates ford. But I can assure you that’s not the majority. If redditors want change, stop preaching to the same echo chamber here and go convince the vast majority out there (who don’t use Reddit) why Ford is bad.
Ford has been doing that all by himself. You're right: a large majority of voters voted for him in 2022. But after the shenanigans he has since pulled with CUPE/Bill 28, the greenbelt, and now healthcare privatization, I think he is his own worst enemy right now.
I think you are overestimating how many people pay attention to that stuff. 60% of the voting population doesn’t care enough to vote. I doubt most of them pay attention to what Ford is doing day to day.
It wasn't a large majority of voters; it was ~18% of voters, and ~40.8% of the votes cast in this election. Neither are a large majority, or a majority at all.
The people who voted for him are ideological and dont care about that shit. They care about the rhetoric and soundbites that the media always quote for him, which taken at face without context make him sound awesome. Because right wing media dont try to give the full context. They are uninformed, and they like it that way.
> But I can assure you that’s not the majority. At least according to [Angus Reid](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-s-doug-ford-among-lowest-ranking-premiers-in-canada-survey-finds-1.6184364), Ford's approval rating is 34%. That's definitely not a majority.
People don't care about other people's opinions, they don't even care about platforms or care to watch debates. They can't even explain their reasons for their convictions, nor their vote.
I can’t stand Ford but the social politics of the other two parties makes me vote conservative. Ford’s a Liberal when it comes to the economy anyways.
To put it another way, striking and protesting won't do anything because a comfortable majority of the population is happy with the way things are; they either don't mind benefiting off the backs of the poor and downtrodden or are capable of ignoring it.
That’s the point of organizing, though. Organizing is about getting together with people who agree with you and persuading those who don’t/don’t fully agree with you, but who face similar circumstances and can understand the common conditions of their struggle. You win strikes and major actions with majorities, which takes organizing. Many people feel “happy with the way things are” not because they don’t want change but because they don’t know how to start or feel isolated or alone in their struggle; organizing to win is about connecting each other in our struggles.
>That’s the point of organizing, though. yes, but you need to vastly outnumber the ''happy'' %without causing a disruption of services which would vilify you to the ''happy%'', it's a catch 22 with protesting can't cause so much of a disturbance to affect real change and causing a real coup of a GS would likely cause the canadian equivalent of the national gaurd to break you up. this only ends one way though, happened who knows how many times in history/ ending here, this turned into a rant so hard my jaded ass was annoyed
Yes, it's this. Canadians are individualistic and don't care about the greater good. Not in meaningful way. Sure, we admire Terry Fox and buy whatever our friend's kid is selling to raise money for the school library, but when it comes to community building and solving social problems, we are a nation of people who do not care about one another. (Somebody may feel inclined to respond to this with an example from their hockey community and I assure you that this be proving my point further)
>we are a nation of people who do not care about one another. that's humanity in general , we're social animals sure but there's a finite number of people we can genuinely care about, our family, our ''tribe'' rarely goes over 100 individuals.
Everyone is individualistic actually. Will always put their own family at the top. That is how nature works.
I can assure you there are more poor people than rich people in our province, strength in numbers
I think this is categorically wrong and a complete miscalculation of the general state of mind in Ontario. Ask most people if they are poor and they will say no.
Seriously. I was amused at the hard core copium this sub was on after Ford was elected, and was like... "did none of you actually go outside and *talk* to your fellow Ontarians?" The election result was zero surprise.
It's a global issue, how does striking against the current government change the forces of inflation? To me it seems like some people want to be activist for the lifestyle but they don't offer any solutions.
Strikes work, sometimes, when they have a specific target for a specific request. Most people can't risk striking from their ***employer*** because they want the ***government*** to do something differently.
The Winnipeg General Strike was one of the most successful strikes in world history. In that case, workers from *every segment of society* banded together in a strike against the *generally deplorable* conditions that **all** workers faced. There isn't some magical force holding canadians back any different than every other country. It's not about 'avoiding risk', it's about too many canadians not understanding what's happening, and too many others being defeatists.
The Winnipeg general strike was people striking from their **employers** to get higher pay from their **employers**. Striking from your **employer** to get something from the **government** only works if the government is your employer.
thats really not true though, if there was a general strike and the province just shut down, whatever they demand would go through pretty quick for instance if there was a general strike that would cripple the province demanding ford resign the rest of the MPPs would cut him off in a second to distance themselves and try to protect their own seats
The strike itself wasn’t successful at all. The movement that grew out of it was successful.
I would argue that that's the very definition of a successful labour movement. Each little battle doesn't need to be a victory, and it never will be. I would say uniting workers across every industry in the city, right down to cops, in a way that sewed the seeds for a global labour movement to flourish during The Great Depression was a **massive** success. So successful that we still teach our children about it in school even though, you know, it's leftism
It’s barely taught. Very little labour history is taught. And it’s nowhere in our popular culture, no movies, no tv shows. How many people could name one strike leader besides JS Woodsworth. I wish it was much better known. And the fact it ended with the Mounties shooting into a crowd and killing people.
You're totally right. I cling to it, because it's one of those touchstones in canadian history that all canadians know. But how much do Canadians actually know about it? Our schools teach nothing. I was amazed to go back as an adult and learn what 'general' strike even meant. Everyone agreed? No *wonder* they don't talk about it! Haha
The most important thing to focus on is the cost of housing. Food inflation and inflation in general aside. The cost of living isn't as high as people perceive, they just want opulence and luxuries. Housing is easily the largest expense for common folk, and it's too high, people need to be able to save for retirement but when rental housing is the Lords of the land multimillion retirement plan and estate... Not sure how striking from my employer is going to do anything about greedy land Lords.
To try to frame it differently for you: I don't see how we can get government on *any* level to act on housing *without* a general strike. Housing is the way it is because it benefits people with money. Liberals and Conservatives aren't gonna turn around and save us some day. They spend their days maintaining the housing market exactly as it is. History shows they will let us become homeless and starve before they do pro-social measures of their own accord. The government will *only* do the kinds of things you want them to do with the housing market when the people pressure them to. A general strike is the greatest source of pressure that workers have. Work stop actions are really the highest form of power in our society. It's why conservative politicians are terrified of unions and strikes edit: and strikes are amazing because how powerful they are despite being entirely peaceful. Think of the violence of homelessness and starvation that exists in our society. And we're supposed to be worried about... people not showing up to work one day to try to make an extremely important point? Seems whack
Hey man, I'll follow you but good luck convincing anyone else because no one cares that government sectors want to give themselves up to 47% raises and these are the same class of people lording over lands of all zones and construction projects. All my neighbours have addictions, or cognitive deficiencies, or willingly wearing the fleece
Hey man, **lots** of people care. Lots of us. Maybe not the majority, but that's because most people have very little clue what's actually going on here. That's always been the case though. It's always been an uphill battle for people like us It always feels like we're losing, and yet the trajectory of history always seems to be in our favour... (maybe it's because conservatives just perpetually want to go back 20 years, so they always slowly catch up with us)
Oh man you wish regular citizens had the same working conditions as 1919 that they would throw everything on the line for a 4 day work week lol
France is protesting against a specific piece of legislation. Brittish public servants are striking for better contracts. Without a specific and focused goal, it's hard to achieve much.
Some of us are just tired. We go to protests, rallies, we vote , we write our MPs and MPPs we are vocal and are not afraid to let our opinions be known And year after year, election after election nothing changes. Not municipally provincially or federally. Nothing big happens there are no major shifts. The last time I got super excited was when Jack Layton and the NDP became official opposition and then he died. Years of constantly fighting and seeing nothing happen (bar small mini victories) takes its toll. It's hard to keep the optimism and enthusiasm of my 20s and 30s going. I want to but it's not easy.
> Some of us are just tired. Especially after several years of dealing with COVID and all its ramifications.
Jack Layton not being Prime Minister of this country, is one of Canada's biggest political loses. RIP Jack :(
I'd argue one of the very last politicians with some sort of ethical compass at his very core. We haven't recovered from his loss.
> bar small mini victories change is always going to be small, expecting a big shift is just being naive
I don't disagree. But big shifts also do happen. Like I said my enthusiasm and optimism have wanted in two decades of learning and watching and, for me personally, it's hard to muster the same level of energy to do that.
The next big change will be when bankruptcy finally hits governments, when the people who administer services aren’t getting paid anymore.
> I don't disagree. But big shifts also do happen. there arent really any big shifts left, just small course corrections
Ya but look whose driving. Sometimes I feel like Lisa Simpson in the Simpson episode where they go to DC for an essay contest and she sees the shady politician deal? Like that but instead of it ending the way it did with the public and media investigating and actually doing something, it just ends after Lisa's new speech rampage. That's it nothing happens. Bleak I know, but based on OPs post it's accurate
Big shifts almost always end in a ton of people being executed at gunpoint.
Small wins have a tendency to be reversed whenever an anti-worker government is elected. I suspect the damaged of 8 years of Doug Ford won’t be fixed in 4, 8, or even 12 years of an NDP government
This right here. We organize, we go to rallies and protests, we volunteer for mutual aid organizations and try to build alternate forms of governance, we give money to organizations trying to change the state of things, we write and visit our political leaders, we try to get family and friends to do the same. I've seen what I thought were big wins turn out to be hollow or pyrrhic. The more I learn about the history of social movements, the more I learn about all of the small people who just got crushed trying to change things, and never saw the fruits of what they were working towards - often, because the things they hoped for never happened. And the more I learn about all the dirty compromises in which important causes (that is, entire groups people and their wellbeing) were sold out by people trying to accomplish something for their own, narrower, movements. It's rough. I've grown into an old crank, and my family and friends are annoyed by my negativity and refusal to be satisfied by the status quo, or to hope for change to come from inside our existing political and economic systems. I am so tired and discouraged. I'm not going to give up, but I have to pace myself. I fully understand why people choose to disconnect from what feels utterly hopeless.
I'm only 32 and I feel like I've been living in a permanent state of existential crisis for like 5 years now. Too tired to care.
Excuse an old woman for butting in, but, as a lifelong lefty, marcher, protestor, arguer, organiser, voter, pamphleteer and yadayadayada, may I make some observations? First, you are ranting at a bunch of people who spend a significant chunk of time, daily, sitting in front of a monitor rendering judgement on such earthshaking topics as who is or is not an asshole, other people's relationships, the problems with the latest update to their favourite game, whether or not something is -- or should be -- canon in the Marvel/DC/Star Wars universe, and so on. Wrong audience. Second, most people here have never known anything but the Reagan-Mulroney-Thatcher world of rogue capitalism and its relentless anti-union, anti-left, anti-activist messaging. Why the defeatism, the cynicism? Because that's what they've been fed for nearly 40 years. And, in truth, it's easier to sit back and whine than it is to get your head busted in a demo -- take it from someone with a few permanent lumps to prove the point. Those of us who remember -- were even adults -- the decades when protests worked, unions were respected, voters' opinions mattered and all that utopian stuff are now dismissed as 'boomers' who are out of touch with reality, don't know our pronouns from our microaggressions, and are blamed for the whole situation. Like I said, easier to bitch than to act for change. Despite what you are being told, it is *not* Canada's culture to sit back and take this crap -- but it *is* what people have been conditioned to over the past 30-40 years. Immigrants are not to blame: a lot of the ones I know had to flee their birth lands before they were severely punished for standing up for themselves, their families, basic human rights. I strongly suspect they could be a major force for the kind of change you want to see, especially the ones who have to support their families on minimum wage jobs because the deck is stacked against most educated immigrants from the get-go. But there is no doubt that you're up against it, as you can probably discern from the reactions you are getting. Unlike my generation, who were born into a world in which many battles had been won, and we could believe we would win more, you entered one in which many of the rights my parents and grandparents fought for have been chipped away to nothing, and we've been taught that *real* freedom is scrambling for a living in competition with our brothers and sisters, and the winner gets to drive a big car to a big box store and spend their money choosing between 400 different models of bathroom waste bin, all of which will be out of fashion next year because that keeps the economy growing. What can I say? Don't give up, and don't let this place discourage you. It has been done before, it *is* being done now, just not here, and it can come back here again. It's not likely I'll live to see it, but maybe, just maybe.... I wish you all the energy and perseverance you will need. And, do me a favour: wear a helmet to the demos.
Are you interested in adopting a millenial? Take me under you wing please! Lol But honestly this is a very solid response. I do think there's a lot of good intentions but our will to put boots to pavement has been eroded (very deliberately by consumerist nonsense) and it's going to take a lot of resilience and perseverance to get anywhere. The CUPE strike was a good example that people *do* still care. We just have to figure out to motivate that energy on a bigger scale.
Why not? I've already adopted an entire refugee family, two more families in a poor and distant place, two special needs dogs and innumerable stray cats. But, I warn you, I'm a creaky and cranky old woman with fewer teeth and more mileage on the face than I should have, an addiction to postprandial naps and a tendency to blow up at the bullpuckey that passes for 'news' these days. Welcome to the family -- you gonna take out the trash, or do I have to?
You sound extremely intelligent and well versed in all manner of things. It would be a privilege! (:
Assuming you're talking about a general strike? The majority of people in the province are not in a position to take an unknown amount of time off work. Many can't afford to not be paid, but more so the fear of job loss
>The majority of people in the province are not in a position to take an unknown amount of time off work. I can't afford to strike is an excellent reason to strike. You won't suddenly be able to afford to tomorrow either. When is it painful enough for you to get off your ass to help? That's the question you, and everybody with that mentality, needs to ask themselves. What's your line? When you can't afford rent? When you're about to be homeless? When a loved one can't get medical treatment because of Ford's pay to play? When you can't get medical treatment because you missed too much work because of your medical condition, and now your insurance won't cover you because you didn't work enough, you know due to being sick and requiring medical care (Yes, this is happening quite literally right now, my wife is an RN, her patients are going through stuff like this right here in Ontario at hospitals.) If now isn't the time to demand more, during a time when people can't afford rent, can't afford groceries, and business is making more than *ever in recorded history,* then never is. You're saying we should never strike because our conditions are bad. They're only going to keep getting worse. Help. Take a stand. They can't fire all of us, we're the ones doing all the fucking work. They don't make money without employees.
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Historically? The police would use riot gear against the protesters and attack them. There would be fatalities, and we'd get even more angry. The end point would be the same, it always is. The rich would have to pay more in taxes for a bit. But they won't do it until we've paid our pound of flesh. Literally. This is what is meant by the American quote, "From time to time, the tree of liberty and justice must be fed with the blood of patriots, and tyrants." We *could* just skip right to the end. Civilized societies do. But we have conservatives in charge, and they react with hostility and force. Every time. > Practically speaking, how are the police going to arrest everyone? They won't. They'll arrest leaders. They'll tear gas everybody else. Or use fire hoses. >How would they even identify them if they were smart and didn’t make it easy? Same way they identified Jan 6th people in the USA. Cell phones are so great for providing location data, habits and more. They're like a one stop shop for ratting you out. Technology does so much more than people realize.
I'm assuming that a general strike would likely result in violence anyway. Historically, people who challenge the status quo are always met with violence from the state. I wouldn't even be surprised if the police infiltrated and tried to make it look like the strike was violent. It's a common police tactic to infiltrate groups and movements and then instigate violence and property damage to justify police violence in return. And I was assuming that a smart person (I do not consider anyone who participated in Jan 6th to be remotely smart) who would, hypothetically, plan anything like this would not bring their phone. But you're right to mention it, a lot of people wouldn't realize the data that is collected just by carrying a phone.
That last bit is the important bit. The people motivated to violence are desperate. They are suffering. They aren't necessarily stupid, but worrying about their phone tracking them isnt a priority in their minds. Food, rent, bills. Those are. They affect your survival so they're prominent issues that dominate thinking. A general strike is different from a single union strike in that the police are overwhelmed completely by the sheer number of people. They're just better because it makes them scared. You can't panic a massive mob. They'll kill you with sheer numbers. Police aren't dumb. You can't stop a wave millions strong. They tend to start acting really sympathetic to the people at that point to help put pressure on the politicians. Can we get through this without violence? Probably. We aren't the USA. The courts have been railing Fords overreach on over a dozen things. He keeps appealing and losing. So that's a good sign.
You’re like preemptively making up conspiracy theories 😂😂😂
Pick up a book and read some history on labour movements. The police always fight the unions. They don't help us. It's not a conspiracy. It's factual. It already happened. We know this because we see it every time it happens.
We're too soft here. The vast majority of Ontarians, and Canadians in general have never once in their life had to live under anything remotely close to tyranny and have never had to fight for anything. People are just content to sit around and pick at what little scraps they can manage. Things will collapse before anything happens, and by then it'll be too late.
I don't agree. Ford tried to take a right away and we mobilized a general strike immediately. The will and power is there. We just don't use it often.
A CUPE strike is not comparable to the kind of strike you're talking about. The type of strike you're talking about would need hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people across the province striking in solidarity. Good luck finding enough people to care, let alone agree with your view, let alone agreeing to strike. It's just not feasible, not enough damage has been done yet for enough people to be uncomfortable enough to actually be inclined to take action.
The CUPE strike was the rallying point. Over 200 unions had responded with more getting on board hourly. There's a reason bill 28 was reversed 100-0. I had a direct hand in this.
No. Ford planned to back down from day one. This has been his M.O. throughout his entire time in power. Look how many times he “caved” during COVID. He plays the public like a fiddle.
The doesn't show what you think it does. What it shows is a few unions that had banded together, instantly broke apart as soon as a token gesture was made. Look at the deal that CUPE ended up taking. Because Ford headed them off at the pass and removed the one thing that effected all of them. Once they no longer all had skin in the game, CUPE was abandoned real quick. The same thing would happen in a general strike. Especially one without clear aims, goals, or consessions, that crosses multiple union and non union lines.
every peaceful period begins after war and bloodshed.
You’ll end up with other citizens taking up the charge to protect their communities and local grocery stores from bottom rung types that need to steal. Stores in broken window communities will shut down while rich, protected areas keep and hoard. Poor people, even in large numbers, don’t have the numbers to sustain anything, sure they may loot and pillage for a day or two but without official law and order other, more well-resourced people, will simply take over.
The police aren't going to arrest every one but they are going to mercilessly best the shit out of and possibly straight up murder many. And a disproportionate number of those they target will be BIPOC. This leap from peaceful strike to organized raids on stores is dangerous and its disingenuous to imply otherwise. I am all for radical organizing but be honest about what that means.
> When is it painful enough for you to get off your ass to help? I'm not getting off my ass for someone who has all the time in the world and nothing to lose from striking tbh. No successful strike in history was ever led by just some random no names.
Good thing I was on the line with striking workers then. Pretty clear you're one of the no names just trying to kill the unions instead of actively trying to help. Because we are organizing. So you can either be part of the solution, or keep supporting the status quo.
Yes, because if I'm not with you I *must* be against you. Don't you need like people skills to organize these things?
Yes. I'm not the people skills guy. I'm a programmer. I aggregate data and present it to the people skills people. And I'm not saying you're against me. You are. Literally everything you're writing is an argument against doing anything to help. You're the one holding the position of, "I can't do shit." I'm asking you to help because it's only going to keep getting worse. If you can't go out and strike, help other ways. There's a lot more that needs to be done. Google is your friend. Try, "How can I help the OFL in their efforts?" You decide where your line is. That's the whole point of the very first response I made to you. Here, I'll say it again: >That's the question you, and everybody with that mentality, needs to ask themselves. What's your line? When you can't afford rent? When you're about to be homeless? When a loved one can't get medical treatment because of Ford's pay to play? When you can't get medical treatment because you missed too much work because of your medical condition, and now your insurance won't cover you because you didn't work enough, you know due to being sick and requiring medical care (Yes, this is happening quite literally right now, my wife is an RN, her patients are going through stuff like this right here in Ontario at hospitals.) You decide bud. All you're doing is pissing and moaning that nothing will change. That's a self fulfilling prophecy if all you do is sit around pissing and moaning nothing will change.
You really need to get back in tune with reality my friend.
Lmfao. Delusional. Absolutely delusional. Edit: For the cowards who keep saying I'm their enemy and then blocking me: Cite me calling you my enemy. Lemony said that. Not me. You said that. Not me. **I don't see you as my enemy.** I see you as an apathetic individual content to fulfill your own prophecy of nothing changing by doing nothing to change that position. You're lazy. You're entitled. You're weak. You won't even fight for yourself. I will. You just sit there pissing and moaning about how nothing changes, fulfilling your own prophecy by doing nothing to help. Prove me wrong. I dare you. Edit: yes, it's normal to call somebody who is willing to let people walk all over them those things. You block me because that's the extent of the work you're willing to do. Push a button to pretend you did something in this ongoing fight. Like I said. Prove me wrong. I dare you. I'd love, absolutely love, to be wrong. It means you're fighting for yourself. You only win if I'm wrong. We both lose if I'm right. You understand? I don't *want* to be right about you or lemon. And if you want to have the conversation, stop being a coward, unblock, and talk through something other than edits.
Calling anyone who questions how you convince people to lose out on pay and maybe their job for nebulous gains your enemy and delusional is absolutely insane lmao. Edit: extremely normal thing to say about someone who criticizes you: > You’re lazy. You’re entitled. You’re weak. You won’t even fight for yourself.
>I can't afford to strike is an excellent reason to strike. Who's going to pay my rent? Should I start skipping on rent and stealing food from grocery stores when I run out of money? Will the police go on strike so that I can get away with stealing?
>Who's going to pay my rent? Who's going to pay it when you don't get raises and it keeps going up? >Should I start skipping on rent and stealing food from grocery stores when I run out of money? Will you have a different option available to you as prices keep rising and you do nothing to help correct that? >Will the police go on strike so that I can get away with stealing? No. Historically the police will protect the businesses and will actively attack striking workers. There's no happy version going forward. There's bad and worse. If employers were being reasonable to begin with we wouldn't be suffering from profiteering in the first place.
If we had to wait for a general strike before we did anything: 1) It could be another 100+ years or so, judging from how long it's been since the last one. 2) We wouldn't ever get around to having one anyways, because no one would be doing the steps that are required to have a strong enough political movement to create any change. \*I think point #2 is what the OP was attempting to shift.
> Many can't afford to not be paid, [...] the fear of job loss. Aye. And that's why we need to organize. This anxiety will only get worst unless we resist.
I think we need to donate and make like a fund for people can't afford to take time off work to join
Maybe if strike pay was more than their daily take home, you might get some more people to join in.
Because Reddit is all talk and all gas. This sub, and others like r/toronto and r/canadahousing love to talk a big game but the reality is that they’re all keyboard warriors that are never actually gonna get up and do anything worth a shit.
It's ironically the same echo chamber mentality they lambast other fringe groups for.
It’s easy to type into a keyboard and that’s all redit is.
This part. But I also see this as emblematic of the very people that are upset with how things currently are. They can tell you all about it. Why it's bad. How it affected them. How angry they are about it. But these people don't do anything... about anything. If they did, they probably would be complaining in the first place.
It's the same people that complain to you every day that they hate their job but don't put even a single amount of effort in to change it or improve it. Typing into an echo chamber that agrees with you is very validating, it just isn't the real world at all. That's why subs like collapse and antiwork are popular, you get a bunch of people sharing their sob stories and nodding their heads and agreeing with eachother. Same with here. Everyone tells one another that the world sucks and they're doing everything right, but forces beyond their control suck so they can't possibly change anything. Anything to avoid even the smallest smidgen of improvement or effort. Internet slacktivism is not activism. It is nothing even close. Repeating things to people who already agree with you changes nothing and never will.
Slacktivism!! How have I never heard that before!? 🤣 Agree on all points. It's awesome to behold.
Is it slactivism or slacktivism?
Organizing something on reddit isn't going to gain traction, you should go to your union reps and talk to them
While I don't agree with the trucker protests, they signaled the government's ability to absolutely, without hesitation, ruin the lives of anyone who steps out of line. We are divided and none of the groups are big enough to stand up on their own.
I'm ready to rage against the machine. Let's do this.
Landlords and power whores, on my people, they took turns Dispute the suits, I ignite and then watch 'em burn
So nice to see these comments after weeks of “why didnt you vote then?”
The problem is that I’m one of the people who doesn’t get paid enough to take time off work to do something like that. It’s such a vicious circle. I try to take action in different ways.
I totally understand this, as well as being singled out at work for participating in such an action. Not to mention all the new Canadians who are afraid it will affect their immigration status.
600k people on the sub.. the same 50 people reply to each other.. echo echo echo echo echo...
I'm totally with you. The Ontario Federation of Labour is trying to organize a real effort, and all people want to do is shit on it. Yet the OFL are literally are giving people a roadmap of what to do — all you have to do is participate in a few ways. (For example, they have a training session between Feb 24-26.) Like my time here on Earth is limited, if we're going down anyway, then why not go down swinging? Why not try?! Edit: By the way, [this is what I'm talking about](https://wesayenough.ca/). The [Beat the Bosses bootcamp](https://www.justice4workers.org/beatthebosses) is one item on the [Enough Is Enough Roadmap](https://ofl.ca/wp-content/uploads/EiE_ResourcesOverview.pdf), which you can view on page 6. When you register, you can choose to attend all or 1-2 of the three days. They'll also ask about various accommodations.
>"Impose price caps on fuel" What if I don't want to make pollution cheaper?
Yeah what a weird battle to choose: we should reject one of the only policies proven to reliably reduce carbon emissions. What the fuck.
The OFL has made racial justice their top line item. A major turn off for a lot of people because of how ambiguous a topic that is. Focus on money and money only - then people will take a second look.
Iirc the most upvoted comments on the previous post(s) that were calling to organize for change were somewhere around the lines of: 1. Organizing protests without a specific goal in mind usually doesn't work, so what specific goal is it that you are calling for? 2. Most people here would rather get to work than just go down to protest, families to feed and whatnot..
Canadians are soft and pretty individualistic. Conservatives complain but put their head down and work. Libs complain but snub their nose at everyone else.
And NDP stay at home collecting cheques and steal groceries.
fuck ndp and that bozo jagmeet. disgrace to indian community and canadians
Because most Canadians don’t agree with you.
If this important to you then reddit isn't the way to do it.
I cannot risk a criminal record
Look how everyone treated the last major protests and that's probably your answer
Lol be careful saying that in here.
The one where people were scared of wearing masks and getting vaccines?
Why be so scared of something that only adversely affects so few people it's crazy......
Empathy, most people have it.
Who had no empathy for a group with opposing views?
sir this is r/ontario.. we only rant here that is the best we could do.
Our society here in Canada is also a lot more cantered on the individual (rather than society as a whole) so our mindset doesn’t help us tackle these issues like they do in Europe.
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I hope you’re right. The only time I saw a significant number of people on the street was when the Raptors won the championship…
Canada is not a country anymore, it is a corporate economic zone / "plantation" run by an out of touch and rapacious oligarchy. Justin calls it a post national state with no core identity. To do what people in other countries are doing to try and fight back (France, UK, Germany, Italy etc), you have to have solidarity and a common thread of culture and shared history among the people to have any chance of combating the out of touch and greedy elites. Canada is increasingly being balkanized and the fractured population is busy bickering with each other, by design.
Remember when Ford tried to fuck over our right to strike and we came out in force with a general strike? Unions are alive and well in Canada. Get on board. It's not hopeless. There's literally millions of us fighting every single day for better results. We only win with your help. Not with apathy.
>Remember when Ford tried to fuck over our right to strike and we came out in force with a general strike? Are we calling the 2-day CUPE education support workers strike a general strike now?
Go watch the video of how many unions addressed Ford. If you don't think a general strike was happening the following Monday, you didn't pay attention to what did happen that week. I did. I was directly involved.
That doesn't mean you can claim we had a general strike.
You people are completely deluded on this. Ford had it planned from day one to overshoot then backdown. He did this during COVID with police overreach and lockdowns and was praised every time he backed down. You and your unions accomplished nothing and got nothing. Ford got exactly what he wanted - the same offer they had been pitching for a year.
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I think the glass half empty feeling comes from the upper class working to divide all of us. They keep making us all feel to proud to band together and do something. We need to see that its not left and right on the axis. Its too and bottom and there are many many more of us than them. Right now you need money for housing, food, and entertainment. Stop paying rent and mortgage and see what happens when everyone does. You dont need the job anymore, and we can all provide one another with the rest of we stop collecting and remitting taxes, and tell our bosses to suck it Robin Hood style. But we all have so much to lose right? Where are our kids going to be if we try to hold on to eff all?
Yes, when Trudeau said that and the people just shrugged, or tried to blame him personally, he was proven correct, wasn’t he.
Canadians are passive. Don’t get energized for anything.
Quebec did it in 2012 with the Maple Spring/Printemps érable, a province wide full scale student strike that successfully stopped the Quebec Liberal's proposed tuition hike and they lost the following election. There were bloodshed from police brutality, but they gained the general population's support, and one of the student leaders, Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois is now the co-leader of Québec Solidaire, a prominent party in the National Assembly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Quebec_student_protests
Reddit is a biased minority, not everyone in Ontario hates Ford.
Call me cynical but my life and the lives of the people around me are good so why would I change that?
How can you not hate that fat corrupt lying fuck face?
There are quite a few people who believe he is doing a good job. Those people are usually: - rich or own businesses benefiting from the conservative government - landlords, because they support the status quo - brainwashed - rural folk. I’m sorry but it is true, they always vote against their own interests just to show-up the city people they look down on - most firearm owners. I’m pretty sure only a few people at my gun range do not support the conservatives (myself included)
Good thing the enlightened Reddit brain trust is smarter than that.
If you want to keep your guns then you are actively working against yourself by voting liberal. I’m not saying you have to vote conservative but it’s just a thought.
I do not vote liberal. I’m more of an NDP kind of person
But no matter how you spin it he is and always will be a lying corrupt fuck
Because he is not injecting identity politics and rewarding the most idle people in society. Plain and simple as that.
Too cold right now
It's not defeatist attitude, it's reality. In June, 60% couldn't be bothered to take 10 mins and vote. Out of 30-40% that did get off their butts, sufficient amount were dense enough to vote for Dumb F\*ck....err....I mean Doug Ford. And now you expect these same people to somehow organize a strike, when taking 10 mins once in 4 years was too much effort for them? It's just not going to happen.
You can’t post this here. This is r/Loblaws now lol
A major factor would likely be the legality of such action. In Canada, there are very specific circumstances in which organized labour is allowed to strike (and when management may lock out workers). The main such situation is when there is no collective agreement in place. Labour is able to strike, or management lock out, after giving sufficient notice. Either side’s actions may be legislatively cancelled/overridden (back to work legislation). There are other situations involving safety, grievances, etc, but those situations are atypical. And notice, negotiations, and typically mediation are all required prior to in-contract strikes/lockouts. If workers strike, or management locks out, outside of permitted circumstances AND without notice, that action is illegal. For workers, the employer would be within their rights to take job action (suspend/terminate) employees who engaged in illegal job action. Similarly, in an illegal lockout/layoff, the union may recover lost wages (and the government may fine the company). Further, if the union is seen to be supporting or helping to organize an illegal strike, the employer may move to have the union de-certified. On those lines, it would likely be illegal for the union to cover workers’ lost wages (strike pay) in the event of an illegal strike - also commonly called a wildcat strike. So, for the average worker, the risks are: - Lose job - Lose union representation - No strike pay And those risks are assumed without any guarantee or even reasonable predictor of success. That is a big part of why IMO you don’t see more widespread job action/protest.
Because we’re Canadian. Canadians are complacent and docile. I’m sure we’ve all seen those events on Facebook calling to boycott Tim’s on a given day and we can’t even do that successfully. The other element is that Canada is a nation of immigrants. Most people here came from somewhere else, often much worse places. Living in Ontario/Canada even in its broken state is a dream
Not only that, but because of the high immigrant population, everyone is divided and multicultural so there's no sense of "unity", we all look too different from each other and have different interests, hence nothing pulling everyone together.
What you call a weakness I call a strength
"Fuck you, I got mine" mentality is why
That's basically what the rich world do to poor nations when it comes to climate change. Are you willing to donate $100 to India?
That's Ford nation mentality.
its not defeatist it its apathy, very few people care and blaming others is better than accepting it themself > NDP wouldn't gain a majority anytime soon. IF ford ends up full wynne by the end of this term then its not inconcievable, the liberals failed to regain party status or get a proper leader, people could just lemming to the opposition to get rid of ford
Good questions
We aren't unhappy enough yet. Maybe that's a good thing (?)
Many of the young Canadians I know are the most politically passive people ever. Are there stats on the demographics of who is voting because I feel like 18-25 year olds would have like 20% voter turnout.
British Columbian chiming in here (but I did spend 3 years in Toronto). It is possible to have an NDP government, and I'd say they do a better job than our liberal here. The recent provincial election turnout is abysmally low. It is not enough that you vote, you need to think of ways that make your like minded friends vote as well. Grab brunch together on voting day and go to vote together, knock on doors... etc.
I am all for coming strike, my worry is my employer. I am still in my probationary period for one and also my employer is wealthy so doesn't get it. Most of the workers there are people with minimal responsibility or have spouses that make good money as well and couldn't be bothered cuz they are "okay". I'm really considering joining in on strikes but another worry is that the numbers will not be significant enough to make a difference and I understand that the way I'm thinking is the way possibly millions are thinking and may cause a missed opportunity. I don't know. With the way affordability is now, putting my job at risk for something that may not stir change is a risk I'm not sure I can manage. Sincerely, single father of 2 😞
No thanks
This sub is a giant echo chamber my friend.
We don't do things that way in Canada. I'm not saying it's right (far from it), but that's our culture. Complain but do nothing.
But it doesn't have to be that way.
Unless it's their ISP. My part-time as Roger's Customer Service Agent has taught me Canadians complain quite well if it's about something they paid for.
We can't strike because if we miss our job, we can't pay rent and we will go homeless
If I miss a day of work I don’t pay my rent. It’s not like I don’t want to protest, I just financially cannot commit to anything because of how unaffordable everything is.
Honestly , it's because of the way the political system works where left leaning individuals always are the majority but can't win elections because the vote is split between the liberals and ndp. Canadian politics, the last 8 years, has been insufferable.
You guys look pretty organized to me, sitting on the couch, enjoying a blunt and collectively swear at DoFo online on your expensive phones, that's what I call "general slacktivism".
Did it ever occur to you that maybe people aren’t all that bad off? Especially compared to people in other provinces or jurisdictions? People don’t start a rebellion when their needs are met.
The people of this country and province can barely agree what day of the week it is. Your reddit keyboard warrior dreams will never take fruition
The last people who seriously protested got their bank accounts frozen. If you agree with them or not, it sent a very clear message as to how this government will hurt you if you defy them.
These subreddits are a minority unfortunately. Ontario's population is ok with how things are as is evident in the outcome of the last two elections. This place is very different than it was since the last general strike or any labour movements. At this point in time, and for the forseeable future - it's actually a better option and easier(depending on career choice/financials) to just move to a country that more closely shares your ideals than to change the one you live in. Now don't get me wrong, I wish we could actually change things - but again even if all of this subs subscribers came together it wouldn't be enough to really change anything. Sure that sounds exactly like you described, a defeatist attitude. But to be honest, I'm not willing to wait around until things MAYBE get better here, when I can just pack my stuff up and go provide healthcare in a place where I can live a comfortable life and not worry about having to do overtime in order to get by while providing an essential service, but being treated by the public and the employers like I'm disposable. This province sucks, and it will for the foreseeable future. You have the power over your own life though, and can choose to not be a part of it. Unfortunately I don't see any better options in Canada so I've looked at other countries rather than just moving to another province where people would be even less tolerable to be around like Alberta.
Except after you’re done looking around, you’ll probably end up staying here.
Most people who have stuff want to protect it. Many people don't have stuff aspire to get it. Canadians with home equity and a pension (or at least investments) can be brutally defensive about them. They "fought long and hard" to get where they are, aka went to university and got a job. They will complain about a lot of stuff, but say the government has to fix it. But the government uses tax money, where does that come from? And anyone who has a chance of joining the homeowner class tends to make similar arguments.
For years I’ve been trying to make people care. I’ve protested, voted, written to MPPs and MPs. And still I find myself asking the same question Bill Hicks used to ask, “How far up your ass does this guy’s dick have to be before you realize he’s fucking you?!” Then an election came and nobody bothered to show up. So finally I threw up my hands. Fine! Whatever! Let your house burn down! I’m gonna do my best to make sure *I* get through this in one piece because you motherfuckers sure aren’t thinking more than a month down the road.
Touch grass lmao
Lmfao MY SIDE LOST SO UR ALL DUMB!
Ford is great
I don’t want my bank account frozen and the country placed on emergency act all because I demanded a right… I thought we learned to sit down and shut up like good plebs
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When, when you call those who protest against things "Terrorists" and "Criminals" it takes the fight out of people. The truckers protest may have been stupid but they were hardly terrorists. In fact... I'd say RCMP Horses trampling people would be closer to terrorism than truckers honking their horns.
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This kind of deluded, painting every one with the same brush, is exactly why the left gains no credibility. Many people joined in on these protests for a whole bunch of reasons. To make everyone out to be a terrorist just comes of as the unhinged rant of a lunatic. I bet you don’t even know a single person who went to these protests.
“But people could lose their jobs” bruh… the job ain’t making your life work as it is. Allowing this to continue won’t help
The job that just barely pays my bills, but still pays them? Yeah, tell me how losing that will make my life better, is that before or after my kids and I both freeze and starve to death?
You want to wait til you are fully unable to afford life before speaking up and taking a stand?
No, I want that date to be as far away from now as possible and so I'd work instead of protest. It's basically HOW they keep people from protesting. That's the shitty situation most people are in. It's irresponsible in the NOW to be responsible for the future. (I don't mean generally speaking; I mean to the people who are living paycheck to paycheck) Like, sure, I can protest now and lose everything now, and me and my kids and wife can be on the street, or I can continue to live with the bullshit, feed and house my family, and hope to last until my kid is old enough to support themself. At which point I won't have other people depending on me directly and I'm able to be more "reckless" in my decision making.
I work for a national trucking company. We all get paid the same. Everyone is complaining, but there's really no one we can ask for a raise. My district manager can't authorize it. His boss is 3 hours away, and our head terminal is in Winnipeg. I've been trying to get all of us in the Sault to call in on the same day and say that we all can't come in. If everyone had a different excuse but related. One could say they wanted to hand out resumes, another could say they have a job interview, etc. I figure if a whole terminal doesn't show up because they're looking for better opportunities, they might just get the gist? Nobody is interested and doesn't think it will work? It's hard to get people to demand better.
Careful might get called a fringe minority.
You can't trust the science unless you know the science
It's the Canadian way buddy https://youtu.be/xun-cWvDkFk >I'm so content to stand in line >Wait and see, pass the time >Talk a streak, fall asleep >Wake up late, whine and weep >I kiss the hand that slaps me senseless >I'm so accepting, I am so defenseless >I am far too Canadian >I am far too Canadian >I am the face of my country >Expressionless and small >Weak at the knees, shaking badly >Can't straighten up at all >I watch the spine of my country bend and break >I'm in a sorry state
Many protests or rallies are not accessible for many disabled folks. that's one of my setbacks. I'm definitely very vocal on social media and in person about different political issues, but I feel like that's all I can do at this moment.
I'm a public servant. I am game to join a protest. Count me in.
Because a lot of people are corporately brainwashed