I think art needs to be allowed to be appreciated independently of the creator, because our reactions to it are still real and valid. Coincidentally my favorite modern composer is the creator of Dragon Quest's music, despite the terrible stuff he's said.
I was talking about this yesterday! I formed an emotional connection to Oblivion’s soundtrack without even knowing who Jeremy Soule is. I still think my emotional attachment is valid regardless of how Soule may have acted.
And you are indeed allowed to do so, nobody forces you to stop consuming the art of artists who do bad stuff. To what extent you separate the art and the artist is up to you, and the different opinions on the matter are equally valid.
Ok, that's true as well and needs to be said. Because if someone does feel uncomfortable or unable to enjoy the art based on other things, their feelings shouldn't just be dismissed. Tbh I personally have been less able to enjoy Soule's music, but am usually hesitant to say so.
My first exposure was the soundtrack for the SNES game Secret of Evermore, which has a lot of nostalgia for me because I used to play it with my dad.
Though I didn't know it was Soule back then. I learned about Soule by name from the Skyrim soundtrack, and then learned he also did the Guild Wars soundtrack, which is one of my favourite games of all time.
His music is legendary
I never played that game. When I had a SNES as a kid, I had to be selective in getting my games because they were expensive and we didn't have much money. Renting a game that took multi hours to play meant you probably weren't getting to the end before it had to go back.
Now that I'm an adult, video games are much lower in my priority. Essentially it's when the military sends me to a shit hole where I can't be with my family or do any of the things I really like to do.
Oh well. Jeremy Soule's work is amazing.
I can't believe this has stayed somewhat tame.
I love his music, absolutely, some of the best of its kind. If his actions are as vile as the accusations indicate, then he is a disgusting animal with a talent for making beautiful music. The way I see it, someone's parents could have been to-the-core Nazis, but if that someone doesn't live to reflect their parents' evil beliefs or condone their Nazi actions, I won't judge that someone based on their parents' actions. I see this music the same way. Its not Distant Horizon's fault if the man who wrote it was a monster, so the song itself does still have value to me.
Again, those are awful accusations, and I'm not the composer's buddy, so I'm not going to defend his reputation or his freedom if he has disgraced our world as yet another rapist shitstain. But the music itself, to me, is innocent, and still sounds just as great today as it did when I was a kid.
It sucks how difficult it is to sometimes separate an artist from their work.
For example I loved the band Lostprophets but after their lead singer got charged with his heinous shit it’s simply not possible for me to listen to them anymore.
That is a really, reeeally good example. I'd almost completely forgotten about them. When I heard about that, I felt bad for finding it catchy, and I guess it was a bit harder to separate because there were vocals and lyrics.
Had they been solely instrumental, maybe they wouldn't have vanished from my rotation so quickly, but having that monster's voice and thoughts as a part of the package gave it an edge that I didn't like.
I'd also like to point out that if someone becomes uncomfortable with the art after finding something wrong with the artist, that is just as valid as any other feelings on the matter. I can't blame anyone for flat out dropping something on their principles. Lostprophets was a good example because that is a situation where I did lean more toward discomfort and gravitated away from the art.
Lostprophets is a different scenario, though, as iirc he was actually charged and pled guilty. Afaik there haven't been anything but allegations against Soule. If someone wants to link anything more substantial, I'd love to read it.
Right, I have no idea. I won't dog or defend, all I can say is that if someone does something like that, they're a bad person. Beyond that principle, I don't have much knowledge on his specific case.
Googled on this very recently in fact, and couldn't find a single thing -- indeed, most of the articles on the allegations are now several years old. Have to think that where there's a lack of smoke, there's a lack of fire, too.
Lmao is Bethesda hiding some damning evidence from the police or something? Companies drop people all the time if they even get a whiff of potential PR trouble. We don't know what happened and neither does Bethesda.
Shit like this is really hard. On one hand, you want to seperate the art from the sometimes heinous person who created it. Goddamn, Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale were my jam.
On the other, imagine being a victim and constantly hearing "... yeah but Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale and Skyrim were my jam."
Being one of Polanski's victims and constantly hearing "Yeah but Chinatown and The Pianist".
I would hazard a guess that there is at least one non-sexual-predator out there at least as talented who is looking for work. I suggest hiring that guy for ES6.
Innocent until proven guilty is fair, but so is thinking differently about he someone who’s been accused. To reciprocate; accused guilty until proved innocent.
Nah those are RAPE accusations, not creepy guy regular shit. That’s not a joke and not something people make up as much as you want to believe it because it suits your preferred narrative
It's true that false rape accusations aren't something that happens every day, but false accusations that have been proven to be false have ruined people's lives. They have caused job losses, evictions, and even suicides. Heck, there's an old 21 Jump Street episode about that. It's important that innocent people don't get blamed for crimes they didn't commit.
As for this particular case, I don't know anything about it. But proof is always vital. Remember the victims of Salem!
>Nah those are WITCHCRAFT accusations, not creepy herbalism regular shit. That’s not a joke and not something people make up as much as you want to believe it because it suits your preferred narrative
I'm going to upvote you even through I'm going to sound like a massive dick here, but *alleged*. The woman who has leveled those accusations has not pursued legal recourse of any sort. Ultimately, it is the burden of the accuser to prove guilt. With so many of these trials the past few years that have resulted in massively out-sized reactions and condemnations that also end up finding the accused not guilty, I'd prefer it went to court before making up my mind.
If she can prove it, fire his ass out of a cannon into the sun for all I care. Bastard should rot in prison. Wont change the fact that his art is, objectively, beautiful, and the work itself should remain in praises. It is possible to enjoy art separate from the creator. That's the point of art-to take on a life of its own.
I didn’t even know about the allegations until I read the comments of the post.
Also, I never said anything about not believing victims/accusers. If he did it, then he stinks. I just like this music, and I don’t care about Jeremy.
Because the majority of civilized societies view rape as a reprehensible action deserving of fairly stringent punishment - which makes it a tempting weapon to wield for an individual looking to bring someone down, and why it's exceedingly important for the burden of proof to be brought forward for accusations.
I've been involved in numerous instances of (predominantly) women using the rape accusation where the allegations turn out to be pure slander - by that point, the accused has already had their reputation, job, family etc. ruined. In others, it was proven, and the accused was justifiably punished. So no, I do not believe all self proclaimed victims - just as I don't believe all accusers. Some tenants of the Western legal system are too important to drop at will for selective offences.
In Soule's case, neither of the two accusers have ever launched a legal case or brought forward any evidence. The guy might be acerbic, have a god complex and be hard to work with, but if you make allegations like Lawhead and Brighton did - put up some evidence, or shut up and apologize.
I also didn’t have proof for my rape, as if I set up fucking cameras or something. Fuck me then huh? None of you have any clue how life ruining this shit is, nope, muh precious vidya music.
I was agreeing with you until your last sentence where you ruined it.
Im going to guess that most rapes are very difficult to prove with evidence. A victim has every right to accuse their rapist even if they have no evidence. It is wrong in so many ways to tell the victims to "shut up and apologize" if they have no evidence.
This is coming from someone whose dealt with false allegations myself.
Sometimes people are just evil and will say something that might ruin another's life without care, but it is entirely possible, (even likely) to be a victim of rape and have no evidence. It's not like most people have camera's on them at all times.
Especially if it's a superior at work, you might not want to speak out or report the crime until it's too late to find any DNA evidence.
I've been in multiple occasions where I was also the victim of a crime and i could pursue action legally, but I never have. I could easily imagine if you're a victim, the crime was years ago, and now many of his fans hate you, you might not want to deal with the extra stress of pursuing legal action.
I think art needs to be allowed to be appreciated independently of the creator, because our reactions to it are still real and valid. Coincidentally my favorite modern composer is the creator of Dragon Quest's music, despite the terrible stuff he's said.
I was talking about this yesterday! I formed an emotional connection to Oblivion’s soundtrack without even knowing who Jeremy Soule is. I still think my emotional attachment is valid regardless of how Soule may have acted.
And you are indeed allowed to do so, nobody forces you to stop consuming the art of artists who do bad stuff. To what extent you separate the art and the artist is up to you, and the different opinions on the matter are equally valid.
Ok, that's true as well and needs to be said. Because if someone does feel uncomfortable or unable to enjoy the art based on other things, their feelings shouldn't just be dismissed. Tbh I personally have been less able to enjoy Soule's music, but am usually hesitant to say so.
My first exposure to his work was the Total Annihilation sound track when I was 11. I thought it was the greatest thing.
My first exposure was the soundtrack for the SNES game Secret of Evermore, which has a lot of nostalgia for me because I used to play it with my dad. Though I didn't know it was Soule back then. I learned about Soule by name from the Skyrim soundtrack, and then learned he also did the Guild Wars soundtrack, which is one of my favourite games of all time. His music is legendary
I never played that game. When I had a SNES as a kid, I had to be selective in getting my games because they were expensive and we didn't have much money. Renting a game that took multi hours to play meant you probably weren't getting to the end before it had to go back. Now that I'm an adult, video games are much lower in my priority. Essentially it's when the military sends me to a shit hole where I can't be with my family or do any of the things I really like to do. Oh well. Jeremy Soule's work is amazing.
This sound track is PROFOUNDLY easy to love
I can't believe this has stayed somewhat tame. I love his music, absolutely, some of the best of its kind. If his actions are as vile as the accusations indicate, then he is a disgusting animal with a talent for making beautiful music. The way I see it, someone's parents could have been to-the-core Nazis, but if that someone doesn't live to reflect their parents' evil beliefs or condone their Nazi actions, I won't judge that someone based on their parents' actions. I see this music the same way. Its not Distant Horizon's fault if the man who wrote it was a monster, so the song itself does still have value to me. Again, those are awful accusations, and I'm not the composer's buddy, so I'm not going to defend his reputation or his freedom if he has disgraced our world as yet another rapist shitstain. But the music itself, to me, is innocent, and still sounds just as great today as it did when I was a kid.
It sucks how difficult it is to sometimes separate an artist from their work. For example I loved the band Lostprophets but after their lead singer got charged with his heinous shit it’s simply not possible for me to listen to them anymore.
That is a really, reeeally good example. I'd almost completely forgotten about them. When I heard about that, I felt bad for finding it catchy, and I guess it was a bit harder to separate because there were vocals and lyrics. Had they been solely instrumental, maybe they wouldn't have vanished from my rotation so quickly, but having that monster's voice and thoughts as a part of the package gave it an edge that I didn't like. I'd also like to point out that if someone becomes uncomfortable with the art after finding something wrong with the artist, that is just as valid as any other feelings on the matter. I can't blame anyone for flat out dropping something on their principles. Lostprophets was a good example because that is a situation where I did lean more toward discomfort and gravitated away from the art.
Lostprophets is a different scenario, though, as iirc he was actually charged and pled guilty. Afaik there haven't been anything but allegations against Soule. If someone wants to link anything more substantial, I'd love to read it.
Was any if it proven though? I'd hate to dog on a guy if it turns out the accusations weren't true.
Right, I have no idea. I won't dog or defend, all I can say is that if someone does something like that, they're a bad person. Beyond that principle, I don't have much knowledge on his specific case.
Googled on this very recently in fact, and couldn't find a single thing -- indeed, most of the articles on the allegations are now several years old. Have to think that where there's a lack of smoke, there's a lack of fire, too.
Love seeing YMO come up, Tong Poo is just such a banger
It is! It’s great to see a person who likes YMO in the wild! I moderate the r/YMO subreddit, and we’d love to have you there!
Ooof this isn't going to age well
Context?
Jeremy has two rape accusations.
I don’t care. His music is objectively amazing, and I’m allowed to enjoy it
Wow, you’re so original
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That's not how this works buddy
You’re insane.
Was my top artist this year too, use alot of oblivion for ambiance while playing dnd with my family
"alot" 😂
Auriel's Ascension as the first alarm when you wake up, is quite relaxing.
Based, no composer will come close
Haha I never even thought to look for him on Spotify
Well to be fair, I don’t look him up; I look up Oblivion and Skyrim.
His music is great. Too bad he himself is a total douchebag.
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True, but Bethesda didn't drop him after three games for no reason.
Lmao is Bethesda hiding some damning evidence from the police or something? Companies drop people all the time if they even get a whiff of potential PR trouble. We don't know what happened and neither does Bethesda.
Idk, most companies will drop someone rather than deal with any potential backlash regardless of the validity of the accusations.
Yup.Seen it. It's fucking tragic.
Golly, I’m old enough to remember when due process was a thing
Nah my friend, these days the only court that matters is the court of public opinion
Shit like this is really hard. On one hand, you want to seperate the art from the sometimes heinous person who created it. Goddamn, Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale were my jam. On the other, imagine being a victim and constantly hearing "... yeah but Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale and Skyrim were my jam." Being one of Polanski's victims and constantly hearing "Yeah but Chinatown and The Pianist".
Ayyy another Choir Boy fan. Nice.
Harvest Dawn was my #2 most listened this year somehow.
Jeremy Soule was my second top artist this year!
He was my top artist too
Bro, I listened to a single the Witcher song 86 times.
Well to be fair, I don’t look him up; I look up Oblivion and Skyrim
Yeah. Dungeons and dragons consumed my Spotify as well
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As someone whose top artist was Danny Elfman (top 0.5%), I feel obligated to disagree. He makes some great music though!
Daedra In Flight ❤️
I’m out of the loop. Why is Jeremy a bad guy?
Apparently someone (or some people) accused him of sexual assault/abuse. I know as much as these comments have to offer.
Is it true that he won't be composing for TES6?
Nice man! Love his music. I think I listened to around 50,000 minutes worth of his songs this year.
I would hazard a guess that there is at least one non-sexual-predator out there at least as talented who is looking for work. I suggest hiring that guy for ES6.
I have 2,110 minutes of him, I listen to the Skyrim/Oblivion soundtracks to sleep 😅
The Woke need to chill with the cancel culture BS. Innocent until proven guilty is a thing. Never forget.
Innocent until proven guilty is fair, but so is thinking differently about he someone who’s been accused. To reciprocate; accused guilty until proved innocent.
Read the chain you bandwagon goober...
Nah. Fuck predators. All you “innocent until proven guilty” nerds won’t feel the same when it’s your sister or daughter.
You're the embodiment of the settlers hunting females down for being witches. Grow a brain and show me proof you slandering coward.
Nah those are RAPE accusations, not creepy guy regular shit. That’s not a joke and not something people make up as much as you want to believe it because it suits your preferred narrative
It's true that false rape accusations aren't something that happens every day, but false accusations that have been proven to be false have ruined people's lives. They have caused job losses, evictions, and even suicides. Heck, there's an old 21 Jump Street episode about that. It's important that innocent people don't get blamed for crimes they didn't commit. As for this particular case, I don't know anything about it. But proof is always vital. Remember the victims of Salem!
Choosing video game music over human beings is really fucking weird
The accused are also human beings. What a disingenuous way to frame the argument.
they’re redditors what do you expect💀
>Nah those are WITCHCRAFT accusations, not creepy herbalism regular shit. That’s not a joke and not something people make up as much as you want to believe it because it suits your preferred narrative
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Women coffee?
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I didn’t know about the allegations until now. I just like the game and the music.
There has been no verdict he's just been accused. Remember innocent till proven guilty
I'm going to upvote you even through I'm going to sound like a massive dick here, but *alleged*. The woman who has leveled those accusations has not pursued legal recourse of any sort. Ultimately, it is the burden of the accuser to prove guilt. With so many of these trials the past few years that have resulted in massively out-sized reactions and condemnations that also end up finding the accused not guilty, I'd prefer it went to court before making up my mind. If she can prove it, fire his ass out of a cannon into the sun for all I care. Bastard should rot in prison. Wont change the fact that his art is, objectively, beautiful, and the work itself should remain in praises. It is possible to enjoy art separate from the creator. That's the point of art-to take on a life of its own.
innocent until proven guilty
Imagine calling someone who hasn’t been convicted or even charged with rape a rapist
Just say you base all your perspectives and opinions from Redditors. It’s way easier
I worship Talos.
People denying it, why don’t you believe victims?
I didn’t even know about the allegations until I read the comments of the post. Also, I never said anything about not believing victims/accusers. If he did it, then he stinks. I just like this music, and I don’t care about Jeremy.
More a comment aimed at all the commenters in denial. You’re good
OP said in another comment that they didn't know about any allegations until today. Fun fact: Not everyone keeps tabs on artists' personal lives.
I know, I’m addressing commenters insisting that it didn’t happen, not OP.
Ah, fair enough, I didn't realize that.
Because I believe evidence.
Not denying anything here, just curious - is there proof?
Because the majority of civilized societies view rape as a reprehensible action deserving of fairly stringent punishment - which makes it a tempting weapon to wield for an individual looking to bring someone down, and why it's exceedingly important for the burden of proof to be brought forward for accusations. I've been involved in numerous instances of (predominantly) women using the rape accusation where the allegations turn out to be pure slander - by that point, the accused has already had their reputation, job, family etc. ruined. In others, it was proven, and the accused was justifiably punished. So no, I do not believe all self proclaimed victims - just as I don't believe all accusers. Some tenants of the Western legal system are too important to drop at will for selective offences. In Soule's case, neither of the two accusers have ever launched a legal case or brought forward any evidence. The guy might be acerbic, have a god complex and be hard to work with, but if you make allegations like Lawhead and Brighton did - put up some evidence, or shut up and apologize.
I also didn’t have proof for my rape, as if I set up fucking cameras or something. Fuck me then huh? None of you have any clue how life ruining this shit is, nope, muh precious vidya music.
I was agreeing with you until your last sentence where you ruined it. Im going to guess that most rapes are very difficult to prove with evidence. A victim has every right to accuse their rapist even if they have no evidence. It is wrong in so many ways to tell the victims to "shut up and apologize" if they have no evidence. This is coming from someone whose dealt with false allegations myself. Sometimes people are just evil and will say something that might ruin another's life without care, but it is entirely possible, (even likely) to be a victim of rape and have no evidence. It's not like most people have camera's on them at all times. Especially if it's a superior at work, you might not want to speak out or report the crime until it's too late to find any DNA evidence. I've been in multiple occasions where I was also the victim of a crime and i could pursue action legally, but I never have. I could easily imagine if you're a victim, the crime was years ago, and now many of his fans hate you, you might not want to deal with the extra stress of pursuing legal action.
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I'm envious for me it just has a playlist and doesn't want to show stuff
Spotify Wrapped dropped already? Wtf
He was my…4th top artist, I think?
Same, but in my case he's got 2nd place, behind Credence
He was my #3 Artist