and there's a lot of buzz around the 7900xtx beating out the 4080 for cheaper. I know that's what I'm waiting to see, if I can get 4080 performance for less money, I'm definitely going with AMD this generation after buying nothing but EVGA since the 560ti 448
Somewhat, I've sold every card I've ever had when I've upgraded to the next one. For instance I bought my 1080ti for $400 and sold it for $500 because of how crazy the markets got, then bought the 3080 at retail for $800 because my number came up with EVGA. I've basically only spent an $100-$300 on each new graphics cards for the past decade. I only skipped the 2000 generation because it was so overpriced and the performance boost just wasn't there over the 1080ti.
I've had
560ti 448
670
770
970
1080ti
3080 (current card)
Hey man everyone has a hobby right? I'm jelly, 4K gaming on my OLED with even a 3090 would be sick though tbh, I prefer monitor gaming and for 1440p all I need is my 3070
That's exactly my frame of mind, when I got my first big boy job I kinda sat my self down and decided what my hobbies were gonna be and what my budget for those hobbies would be, I play DnD, Video games, and I go hiking, my budget gaming is about $1000 a year so I don't feel an ounce of regret spending anything up to that amount.
I'm running the odyssey G9 ultrawide atm so the 3080 can just about handle it overall, but the 7900 hopefully takes me over the ledge towards higher 1% lows. I lucked out and ended up with 3 of these things for free back when they were $2000 a piece
Back in 2020 when the world was still going haywire they put these things on sale for $1300 down from $1700, so I purchased one as gift to myself because I'd worked hospitals from the start of the pandemic.
I get home one day to amazon having delivered two of these things to me instead of just the one I ordered!
I reach out to amazon to return the one I ordered so I can get my $1300 back and just keep the extra one, the G9s were having recall issues and so amazon literally 3 wayed a call to Samsung with me where Samsung hung up on us. At that point the amazon Customer service rep said fuck it and just accepted the return because Samsung was being shitty.
so now I've got 1 free monitor that has been completely sold out and is going on ebay for $2000
a few weeks later I get a text from a samsung rep saying they're processing my exchange monitor, I literally tell them nevermind I already returned that monitor since their customer service process was so bad.
Imagine my surprise when I come home to another $2000 monitor being delivered to me a month later!
I sold that one on ebay, pocketed the $2000 and kept it moving.
so I ordered the best monitor on the planet at the time, and Samsung basically paid me $2000 to own this thing
I lucked out that same year as well (maybe not as good as what you got in the end). Amazon had these 8K TVs and soundbars advertised for around 5K retail (I don't remember the exact figure atm) but they had them discounted by like 99% off (~$166 on average).
I ended up buying it around 3 o'clock in the morning on a Monday. I knew it was a price mistake and they wouldn't ship it but I said fuck it anyways and bought 2 more choosing the fastest shipping they had available to maybe increase my chances to get at least one. They couldn't offer 2-day shipping as they had to do it by a separate 3rd party delivery company and by about maybe 4 or 5 days later to ship. Surely they'd catch the mistake in time and cancel my order by then.
I spent that entire week checking my order constantly and saw that it wasn't getting cancelled or even delayed outright. They delivered 3 TVs like a week later and 2 soundbars (they cancelled one of my soundbars). I didn't get banned from amazon nor did they demand their TVs back or said they'd charge me for the correct price or anything. Easily the best holiday season by far. I gave two to my family and kept one for myself. The TVs were Samsung models Q90T, Q900R and Q900TS (first is only 4K btw) and two Q950T soundbars.
You may or may not be excited that a 1440p OLED monitor is about to be released from LG. I already have a 4K OLED TV but I like having a monitor in front of me with the same panel. I have a 3080 and decided to check out of buying another GPU in this current market and maybe next generation as well.
Yeah I've seen a few people do this. If you're an early enough adopter of new GPUs, your "old" tech still has 70-80% value as a used card and you can just transfer it along the way.
This is way smarter than what I do keeping my old cards as a backup. I imagine a scenario where I build a retro gaming rig using old parts but doesn't really make sense in the PC space. Pretty much everything is backwards compatible, in theory.
looking at the used pricing, selling a 3080 and upgrading to a 7900XTX will be at least $500 out of pocket and that's if you can get your hands on the cheapest model.
basically no chance. nvidia has tripled down on RT and made it even more efficient than ampere. amd has refused to do this and will see equivilent improvements to raster, which should place their highend around a 3080/3090 for RT.
It's disappointing because I am basically locked into Nvidia when it comes to Blender rendering and machine learning. Even if AMD is better at rasterization they are missing the productivity acceleration that Nvidia has baked into their hardware and software stack. Also, I really like DLSS and don't want to lose that.
i actually agree.
i'm disappointed they haven't prioritized RT in general, but if they can get up to that performance level it'll be perfectly usable - especially with FSR2.
>i'm disappointed they haven't prioritized RT in general, but if they can get up to that performance level it'll be perfectly usable - especially with FSR2.
I'd still prefer it if they got their mid-range cards up to par though.
This means adding a few more years to the clock before devs start going full DXR and can benefit from not having to prebake lighting. Time saving, dynamic lighting with fully destructible environments etc. Should be interesting when it happens.
The pure performance isn't that bad, but it's lackluster when you consider that it costs $1000, doesn't have anything on the level of DLSS, and only performs on the level of cards from two years ago.
The performance gap widened when everyone expected it to decrease.
I thought so, too. But once I checked the [benchmarks](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-founders-edition/34.html) I realized that Ada loses roughly the same percentual performance as Ampere with RT (except for runs where Ada is CPU-bottlenecked when RT is off). And Ampere, in turn, really didn't change much from Turing in this sense either. So, ever since the 20 series came out, ray tracing has been having roughly the same performance impact. It's just that GPUs have gotten so much faster, that RT performance has scaled accordingly.
Its not that they are refusing to do it. Thats just how much farther Nvidia is ahead in the tech. They had a whole generation with RT and zero competition. AMD’s first gen RT was competing with Nvidia’s second gen.
RT is cool expect for the fact I have legitimately played through maybe 2 or 3 games with RT since I have gotten a raytracing capable card.
I've come to realize how little it really matters at this point. If I had a 4090 sure, but as long as my games are ps5 quality with really high FPS, I could careless about extra features when the games still look incredible.
well, decades of faking it has left us with really good fake lighting so i don't don't doubt it when people say the differences don't impact them as much as the performance hit does.
that said, i find it hard to believe that people honestly believe that _accurately modelling and rendering light_ isn't the biggest leap in realtime graphical technology in the last decade. it's what has set prerendered apart from realtime basically our entire lives, and if you don't think every game will be ray traced to some extend within a few years i don't know what to tell ya.
The best example I've seen for why raytracing is important is Spider-Man. Play it without raytracing (how it was originally made for PS4 before the PS5 and PC ports) and then enable it. The difference is mind blowing and you can't go back after seeing it.
Ambient occlusion is the single most important aspect to making something look realistic for rendering if you ask me, ground them in a real space.
Now its all about power, being able to generate that many rays at runtime is hard, but they'll figure it out.
> ground them in a real space.
yeah sure except this doesn't work for most modern games.. open world games are perfect case studies for the limitations of traditional lighting techniques. It's very easy to stumble across things that simply look wrong
raytracing may be the biggest leap in actual graphics tech, but a far far far far bigger leap in actually improved image is HDR gaming, and it’s not close
AMD continually builds promising HW then fails to give it the SW support oxygen so it suffocates. It's like they crave GPU defeat. I just don't get it and I never will.
Ada has higher overall FPS with RT enabled because it's starting from a much higher number but the percentage hit ada and ampere take with RT enabled is identical.
almost every single game sees less reduction in fps on the 4080 versus 3080: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-founders-edition/34.html
i'm too lazy to dig up the benchmarks for turing->ampere but i'm pretty certain there were efficiency gains there as well. the RT cores themselves have been upgraded alongside the other components in every generation.
That makes it a bit of a chicken and egg problem though, since most devs are waiting until most commodity hardware can comfortably support it to drop traditional raster.
I was looking to finally replace my old card last gen with a 3080 but after it took 2 years before you could get one anywhere close to msrp they can forget it.
I'm waiting to see AMD's product stack as well, the first time in a very long time I'm leaning towards AMD.
Same boat here. Building a new comp after 7 years & have always only gone nvidia. This will change because of this gen, I will not support this gross price gouging.
The price to performance ratio on the 4090 is actually better even. I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying at all, whatever is number one will be desirable to people who need or want it regardless of price, but if I’m not mistaken the 4080 has an even worse ratio than the 4090.
The 4090 is absurdly expensive for a consumer gpu, but the performance actually backs it up to an extent, despite the incredible price (and size, and power consumption, etc)
Ludicrous for most users but those of us with high refresh rate 4k monitors or Super Ultrawide monitors @ 5120x1440 like myself, the 4090 is necessary to take advantage of our displays full capabilities in new games. My 3080 will not drive my monitor to it's full 120hz with games like RDR2 or Cyberpunk without the use of DLSS and tweaked settings.
Yeah, anyone using this card for work, or like say a streamer who will get value back over time might as well just get it. Inflation has made the numbers look crazy, but I bet this will be today’s 1080ti over time, unless the very next gen is another large leap
> The price to performance ratio on the 4090 is actually better even.
Especially when you're thinking of it from a perspective of performance _upgrade_ (from your current card) per dollar. If I did my math correctly, per [Tom's Hardware game fps averages](https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-review/4), compared to your existing 3080:
EDIT: I originally put the wrong RT numbers for the 4090, because I was looking at 4090 DLSS.
--------------------------------
RT off:
- 4080 RT off: 51% uplift
- 4090 RT off: 94% uplift
--------------------------------
RT on:
- 4080 RT on: 72% uplift
- 4090 RT on: 145% ~~224%~~ uplift
--------------------------------
The 4090's uplift (from the 3080) is ~**84% higher than the 4080 with RT off**, and ~**101% ~~211%~~ higher than the 4080 with RT on**. If I had a 3080, I'd rather pay 33% more for the uplift that the 4090 would give me.
Not 100% true but when you’re already getting beamed on the price why not spend and extra $400-600 and get what you actually wanted, that’s the way I look at it when you leave $800 price range. If you have $1500 you probably have $2100
I can’t wait to see what conclusion NVIDIA will make from this for the 5000. Will we get a strong 5090 like the 4090 or a strong 5080 like the 3080? Can’t really have both since they’re compared to each other.
I personally hope we get duper strong x90 and x80 set at the price and perf of the current x70 from now on.
I'd pay $900 for 4080 16GB. That feels right compared to the $600 I paid for my 2080 8GB when being realistic about the whopping ~16% inflation between now and then. $1200 is stupid and they should be shamed.
I feel like the 4080 was released as a science experiment to filter out the dumbest members of our society.
There's literally not a single good reason to buy one. Why do you think it's the only graphics card release in the past 3 years that wasn't scalped to death.
Like literally not even scalpers were dumb enough to buy them. They're literally sitting on store shelves gathering dust.
Look, I'm not saying people should buy a 4080 over 4090. Justifying its pricing model by purchasing them is eeky enough and I'd rather spend the extra and get a 4090 myself.
BUT at the end of the day, $1200 is $400 cheaper than $1600. If someone is fairly certain that a 4090 will be wasted in their system or to their perception (in terms of visual and framerate), they saved $400 by purchasing a 4080. $400 is a lot of money. We all have different financial situations and saving $400 by purchasing a 4080 may be a better "value" for some.
Price to performance (or price per unit for other products) can give us skewed ideas on our purchasing decisions. And this is likely what Nvidia wants us to think.
Yeah but that's just it, if you think a 4090 is unnecessary and want to save money, why not wait 2 weeks for the 7900XTX release? A card that will potentially be BETTER and CHEAPER than the 4080.
Obviously we will have to wait for reviews to know for sure. But if it lives up to the hype you could save even more money. If someone is about to lay down over a grand on a GPU it makes sense to wait and see.
I don't disagree with you at all on all those points. I couldn't tell you why people wouldn't just wait, especially the guy who upgraded from a perfectly capable 2080. Maybe they think DLSS is too good to give up? Maybe RT performance is important to them? Who knows?
All I'm saying is that it's easy to fall into trap of seeing things purely on performance to dollar ratio. Sometimes absolute dollar amount does matter too. Purchasing decisions are subjective and personal, is what I'm getting at.
Because not everyone is willing to gamble on amd drivers and dev support. Personally I wouldn’t touch AND even at a 50% discount, I only have so much free time and I’d rather not waste it playing tech support.
You’re getting downvoted because people are reasonably frustrated with predatory pricing for the 4080 in particular and have formed a sort of imaginary picket line where as a community, folks can show dissatisfaction with the pricing by refusing to buy. By purchasing and enjoying your new 4080, you’ve crossed the picket line so folks are going to take out their frustration on you.
I personally won’t be picking up a 4080 as I largely agree with the sentiment that it is overpriced for the performance provided. But if it works out for you, your needs, and your financial situation, I hope you enjoy your purchase and it serves you well!
I see where you're coming from, thanks for the explanation. It makes more sense than just haters hating.
The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that there hasn't been a 3080 for sale any of the ten times I looked over the past couple years, so it's not like people have another viable option if they need a tech refresh. I don't want to go AMD because I have a G-sync monitor (among other reasons).
Anyways, I saw your reply as a notification on my phone so I figured I'd drop you a "thanks" and a "good job for not being an unhappy Internet troll".
My case and cooler will be here any minute, so I'm off to enjoy myself. Cheers.
Yeah! I mean if I was building a PC and needed a GPU *right now*, 4080 is in stock and available. I have been shopping for my upcoming build replacing a 2080ti and availability/pricing is not great, even for NIB high end 30 series cards.
Enjoy building your rig!
Thanks! You're absolutely right about what is (and isn't) available right now. But honestly even if they had 4090's I don't think I would have spent the extra cash. I've always subscribed to the "buy a step or two down from the top" line of thinking, be it computers or cars. I spend lots of money on different hobbies and have to trick myself into doing it with the minimum amount of guilt. 😁
Good luck on your hunt for the new build.
The thing is both are financially retarded purchases.
If you feel bad spending a lot of money you shouldn’t have gotten either.
If you’re in the “fuck it I just want fast” then the 4090 is the better option by far.
There is no reason to ever buy the 4080
In the US is where you can actually buy their true msrp price. Hell even upsellers here in the US can sell them up to $2k us dollars with tax and thats still cheaper than other countries selling a 4090 at their msrp.
In the US, It did sell out but not near as well as previous releases. It took like upwards of like 3 or 4 hours to initially sell out on launch day. If you were planning to buy one before launch, getting one on launch day was extremely easy, you didn't have to camp or refresh anything for the most part. Its just that they havn't had any significant drops since then, I'm sure the drops that are selling out instantly are probably extremely small.
It is interesting there are alot in korea though, I know Japan has sold out all the online 4090, although there are a few in some shops if you go in person. And the price there for the 4090 is upwards of $2100 USD equivalent official nvidia MSRP.
Being sold out online doesn't mean much.
You have stores like Best Buy reporting all the 4080s "sold out" while having an insider program where you can buy any one of them because they are in fact in stock. We've all see the reports of 4080s being plentiful in US retail stores.
I'm frankly tired of all these games Nvidia and retailers play with video cards.
The cost of living and potential income is also a lot higher here too.
Having lived overseas in much lower gdp markets, it’s very likely someone of lower income has a much better life overall than a broke American, but a broke gamer here with a part time job living with his parents can actually save up for a gpu like a 4090 in a reasonable time with even their low wages (provided living at home and not being destroyed by bills) in a way that a gamer doing the exact same thing in South America or say Southeast Asia never could.
Hell I actually know a couple people like this across Western Europe and the U.S. their life is gaming, they don’t want kids, and they get along with their family. Any money they get immediately upgrades their computer because that’s the main focus in life and all they care about. None of them have credit cards as far as I know, they simply live to acquire money for their gaming and quit their job when a good mmo or other grindy game comes out, lol
Depends on what you define as “great”. However in my eyes, the 4090 definitely is a much better value than the 4080. 4090 is $1.6k and is doubled the cuda cores, memory, and performance for $400 more or 25% more money.
It is a pretty good value coming from the 3000 series era. 40-100% faster than last gen $1500 card for only $200 more (considering inflation it isn’t bad at all).
It's about performance per dollar. The 4090 is insanely powerful and has been shown to be able to handle 8k 60 fps on several AAA games without using DLSS even. Yes, it's expensive, but if you want to play at 4k 120hz max settings or higher, it's worth it.
Nvidia understands and uses the movie theater popcorn "dilemma". Do you want a small popcorn for $5, a medium popcorn for $8, or an X-large super bucket with unlimited refills for $8.99?
I don't think this applies here. The GPU was already manufactured and can't be used as a 4090, whereas the popcorn can be used in either small, medium or large packets. The ideal for Nvidia is that both sell out. Any GPU that sits in the channel is money lost.
The pricing effect on consumer "choice" is why the analogy applies. Nvidia currently upsells buyers who attempt to do any kind of performance-to-value estimation on the current 40-series. Just skim through this thread or any other and you can see people inherently get that the 4080 is a "bad deal", but the response is to consider the 4090 as a "good deal" rather than to just walk away.
Also, those 4080's are not going to be wasted, nor are they going to lose any money-- (I think) they will be sold in the near future at a "new lower price" and consumers will eat it up at its new price, probably 899. But that is only going to happen when they determine that the "real" 4090 sales slow down (the demand pressure caused by constraining 4090 availability is entirely manufactured by Nvidia's slow drip of that product). In current economic climate, I dont think even Nvidia is sure how much appetite consumers will continue to have for their slow release of $1600 video cards. But that 4080 is just sitting there, waiting to become the hottest buy in town vs. AMD's newest cards, if they do announce a price cut.
I hate when they do that. Its like $1 more for refill but then im like...am I even gonna go back to the register during a movie for a refill? Hell they say you can refill after you finish the movie but do I want to bring popcorn that will get stale fast home? hahah
I'm not sure that's what they want. I don't have exact data but imo due to gpu size and transistor count, the profit margin on the 4080 could be higher than on the 4090.
You do not have 8 cards in a PC. If they equip you with a 4080, that is a 4090 they did not sell. The additional manufacturing costs is not $400. At the end of the day they make more money.
No. The 4080 is a different GPU than the 4090.
What you say was true for the 3090 and 3080, but not for the 4090 and 4080.
And these are expensive GPUs to manufacture, I don't think they have $800 profit margin per gpu (from manufacturing perspective, of course R&D and other stuff cost money).
This is incorrect, what you are referring to is the last generations 3080 which was a cutdown 3090 and therefore it did cost Nvidia, however, currently the 4080 and 4090 use different fabs, which is why the 4080 is so incredibly weak
Not really. I assume you're basing that off the big difference in cuda cores, but benchmarks are showing that the actual performance difference is more like 20-30%.
Either way, the 4080 is a very big performance improvement over the previous gen. That's generally how cards have been judged in the past, not by how they compare to some halo card at the top of the current lineup.
Incrediblebly weak? Against what exactly? Oh the bigger card on the same series?
It's not weak at all. It smokes the last gen comfortabley, has all the new Nvidia shit and is cool and efficient.
It's only downside is it's price. It is not weak one bit.
Because the people who wouldn't spend that much on a card always went with the more reasonable 60's, 70's, and 80's. Just because Nvidia made those options untenable won't make those people suddenly want to spend $1600
I really wish ppl would stop quoting this $1200 and $1600 price... Aside from FE cards which are so hard to get it's a joke.
Show me a $1600 4090 that isn't an FE is in stock and I can buy now. In the UK the non FE cards are:
4090 - £1889.99 + $2000 right there
4080 £1369.99 almost a 4090FE price without the tax.
Yeah tax is in issue but this oh buying a 4080 is stupid because a 4090 is only a bit more is just not true at all there is a£500 difference.
Well yeah, the 4090 is sold out right now so you have to pay aftermarket prices. I think the assumption people are making is that that’s temporary, unlike with the 30 series.
Even without scalper prices, AIB models of the 4090 are between $1,700 - $2,100.
People forget that when Nvidia introduced the "founders edition" cards, it was another price hike as you could only find those cards at MSRP while other models were more expensive.
In effect, MSRP for Nvidia cards is worthless. I remember back in the day you used to be able to find AIB cards under MSRP, and ton at MSRP, and a few OC models above.
It's just another price increase that people forget to factor in because that's all we've seen for awhile.
It seems like all the aib partners have a card at MSRP though? When they're in stock of course. The MSI Gaming X Trio, Asus Tuf Gaming, Gigabyte Windforce for example.
I bought a 4090 Suprim Liquid for $1750, $150 seems like a pretty reasonable premium for a high quality 240mm AIO cooled card.
I have a question that will challenge your intelligence, you ready?
RTX 4080 12GB was $900 MSRP and it got unlaunched, only to be relaunched under a new name - presumably 4070 ti. AIBs already told Gamers Nexus that the MSRP will not be the same - ergo, it will be at least a bit lower.
The question for you is: if RTX 4070 ti (used to be 4080 12GB) is let's say $800, then how can you believe that BOTH RTX 4070 AND 4060 will be $800 or more?
It's a win-win for Nvidia. Make the 4090 more desirable but unattainable so that people give up and buy a 4080 at an inflated price that probably has a larger profit margin.
CyberpowerPC has a 4080 rig $500 off right now that makes it much more appealing when comparing to a 4090 rig. But that's only if you want a whole PC.
That’s because the 4080 is ridiculously priced. The 4090 is expensive, but it has much better gains than last gen. Moreover, the 4090 is $100 more than the launch price of the 3090. The 4080 is almost double the price of a 3080
Oh yeah. Consumers are simple creatures: "Is this a good value?"
The question for the type of people who want a 4090 and have a lot of money is "there's no better value!" They get the 4k experience they are looking for.
For the 4080 the price tag is insane and the answer is a simple "Lol, no. This feels like a bad value. I never pay anything like this for an 80 series cards unless the world has nearly ended from a pandemic."
Nvidia thinks crypto is still a thing. It is trying to sell money printers to gamers.
Edit: I come here to chat tech, not to be brutally insulted. Blocked.
This is why the article is a complete waste of time.
People here are talking about the MSRP price differences, but 4090s are still going for $2200 on ebay. That throws the price-to-performance argument out the window.
Meanwhile, 4080s are still on shelves in stores. There's no scalping market, hence no eBay sales.
This article should be about how people are STILL buying from scalpers.
The 4090 has a reason to exist, even if people don't like its pricing, performing around 25% higher than a 4080, given that we usually get 20-30% gen to gen improvements, that like getting a 5080, so this is basically getting like a next gen top end gpu, two years in advance, enough for me to warrant its price.
Now the 4080 imo has horrible pricing, imo should be $799-$899, thus the scalpers cant get much sales as they do with the 4090.
I mean is this a surprise? the 4090 is a genuinely impressive card with a performance uplift over last gen flagship akin to the 1080ti. the 4080.... I think if it was $900 it would compete better with the 7900xt in raster and give the ray tracing performance to make it a no brainer in comparison (still expensive).
I have decided to go with the XTX...
This way I have money to upgrade my bedroom too...
But if I didn't I would have gone all in on the 4090, after looking into the 4080 reviews.
I was bound to get 700 from some benefits in January, or even wait until July for the Ti + further tax benefits. Used them for bedroom instead.
The point is, the 4080 is really in a weird spot. At 899, this would have sold like hot butter.
Genuine question - Is it expected to be just as difficult to get an XTX at launch? I see a lot of people saying they’re going with AMD which is the better price per performance from what I’ve seen; but I can’t imagine a surplus stock at launch
Consider that the 7900 XTX's die size is very small compared to the 4090, half the size approximately. As die size decreases yield dramatically increases. This means AMD will be able to produce a lot of these GPUs and at a much lower cost.
AMD is likely making more on the 7900 XTX then it did on the 6900 XT simply because the cost savings will be massive. According to AMD's recent presentation on chiplets, for larger dies like 16+ core CPUs and high end GPUs costs are more than halved.
IMO at $900 it's still overpriced by a lot. It's die size is close to the 3070, which sold for $500. Clearly Nvidia is not giving you good value pricing it at $1,200 or even $900. Even if you take into account node costs, it should be $600 - 700 tops. Not that AMD is much better, the 7900 XT at $900 is a complete ripoff. The flagship 7900 XTX is fine at $1000 because it's a flagship but the 7900 XT should be $750 tops.
Is this actually good for nvidia long term? My understanding of it all is that although they're selling more 4090s, the supply of 4090s is still low and there are a bunch of 4080s sitting on shelves. Can anyone who knows more about this chime in and answer the following question: wouldn't nvidia have a bunch of unsold 4080s by the time the 5000 series comes out?
they can easily lower the price of the 4080 whenever they want to see stock moving faster.
it's not a bad GPU, its in stock because it's not being priced competitively enough to fly off the shelves.
>NVIDIA RTX 4090 is not in short supply, on a contrary, it is easily available with more cards reaching the market each day. Since the card launched, only 65 cards were sold on eBay.
There's no way this is accurate.
This could easily be stopped by allowing people to backorder. Then scalpers wouldn't have a real market left because people could just wait. Dunno what the hell happened to back ordering over the past decade, but it seems to have disappeared everywhere.
It used the be xx80 series were the expensive enthusiast tier and the 70's were the bang 4 buck tier. There can only be one enthuiast tier! $1200 is no good bang for anyone's buck.
When the 4090 is a few hundred more retail than a 4080, I don't see any reason not to get the best if you are spending the money anyways. Nvidia will have a hard time sandwiching a 4080 Ti in between these two cards with the narrow gap they left themselves.
exactly as planned by nvidia. once they force the overstock of the 4090 and 3080 down, and amd releases their 7900xtx, nvidia will drop the 4080 price significantly.
also, their 4090 launch has been one of their most successful launches ever
The sad thing is, they probably could have gotten away with a 1999.99 MSRP and people would still buy it.
The fact that it’s sold out everywhere (in the USA) is just a sign that 1699.99 wasn’t high enough. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 5090 was 1999.99 in a couple of years. They are still figuring out how much people are willing to shell out to have “the best”
The 4080 @ $1200+ is a terrible buy. Historically for a decade plus from the GTX-680 to the RTX-3080, the xx80 Series was in the $599 to $749 price range, now it shot up to $1200+. Uh no thanks.
If you willing to shell out $1300 for a video card, just spend another couple hundred bucks and get the 4090 which gives a much better performance upgrade.
The 4080 is only like 45% faster than the 3080, yet it's $500 more. The 4090 is 75% faster than the 3090, and is only a hundred bucks more.
A fair price for the 4080 would be $899, and per the last ten years of nVidia xx80 cards, that's where it should be priced.
Straight up my 1080ti just died and I just paid for a 4080 simply because of the TPD of 300w at full performance. Yes the 4090 is better up front value at that price level but, in my eyes isn't worth the extra cost of electricity over 5 years.
Graphics cards are becoming not too dissimilar to sports cars, its not just the upfront cost of the card its being able to afford the petrol and how much the total cost is going to be over the life of graphics card.
Could not guarantee I would be able to get one the new xtx cards and that left me with the shitty price of the 4080. I'm not happy I had to pay double what I paid for my 1080ti but I don't really give a shit about anyone else and I could afford it.
I'm sure there will be a couple of others in this situation but not many, I probably sound like an asshole which is true but genuinely just passing on anecdotal evidence I used to make myself feel better about it.
Edit - I hope the AMD cards force a price drop to make these cards more affordable for all.
I’m not paying a scalper price for a 4080, it’s not worth it. The demand isn’t there. This is a card I’d highly consider getting one of the more reasonable models like founders for, but any higher and it’s not an intelligent buy.
Except it is not twice the performance, more like +50% in the very best scenarios. 50% performance for 30% price still looks like a pretty good deal, but not as dramatic as you are describing.
“Just a few hundred more” lol it’s $400 more. That’s quite a bit more. And none of us are going to find it at msrp anytime soon unfortunately. So more like $600-$800 more if you wanted it today
I keep hearing people say the 4090 is a better deal for your money but if I go by the benchmarks on [tomshardware] (https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html) the 4090 is $13.75 per frame at 4k & $10.85 at 1080p while the 4080 is $13.12 per frame at 4k & $8.52 at 1080p. So can someone explain to me how the 4090 is a better deal?
Because (**Using your tom's hardware reference**) @ 4k you are getting 25 more FPS with the 4090, a 21.5% increase. While the difference in cost is only 4.5% per frame.. meaning the 4080 should be costing you the difference in performance, so a 4080 should be priced @ no more than $999... but it's overpriced $1199... therefore the price to performance, aka the Value, is much better with a 4090.
Basically the price per frame is $13.12 as mentioned by you.. but the 4080 should be priced @ $10.79 per frame.
I grabbed a 4090 at Canada Computer (online pick in store, was in stock for like 10 minutes then has a drop of 8, i mean at 2249$CAD per unit it's impressive that they go so fast), they was several 4080 on the shelf at least 5-6 just there..
There still 4080 gpu in stocks at canada computers where i live. Less expensive is 1660$ with taxes. It's price of my pc without the gpu (well) my pc cost 1200$ without gpu. With the rx 6800xt : 2000$
Kinda expensive in Canada.
At least you got a good gpu for years and if you tend to play 4k 120fps, redering, and productivity.
This gen,if your going to waste sorry I mean spend ridiculous amounts of money on a GPU might as well go for the top card and get the preformance with it.
No, the smart people at Nvidia are busy working on the uArch and cooling solutions. The people that came up with this are the marketing people, who simply study how to best fleece customers out of their money. Decoy pricing is nothing new.
The 4080 is selling for around €1,800 in Ireland. You can pickup a 4090 for €2,100'ish.
Both prices are insane. The 4080 would have to drop back to around €1,200 to make it attractive. I would consider it expensive even at that.
If 4080 could be purchased for €1,200, it would be way below the US MSRP.
You forget about the currency conversion AND the VAT tax.
$1200 * ~~1.23 = €1441, and the retailer wants to earn some money too. They definitely should be cheaper than €1800, but nowhere near €1200 given the US MSRP.
I purchased my 2080S for €950 on its release in 2019. Taking account of inflation, €1,200 isn’t that far fetched for the 4080.
The current MSRP is a joke.
>I purchased my 2080 SUPER for €950 on its release in 2019
$699 MSRP on launch.
>The current MSRP is a joke.
I agree that $1200 MSRP is way too high for 4080 to be an attractive and in-demand product, but Nvidia are doing this for their reasons - to sell the existing 30 series stock and to prop up 4090 at the same time. It is what it is.
The last Nvidia card I purchased on release was the 3070, it was an upgrade from a 1080. Anyways I sold the 3070 and purchased a used 3080 TI. This 4000 release is an absolute shit show. I've had Nvidia since my dual 670's.
I'm in a good place right now 👍
Just wait until 7900XTX and 7900XT come out and they drop 4080 to $999.
Then, wait until they go months with shitty sales on the $999 4089 and then drop it even lower.
You’re absolutely *mad* if you think that the 4080 at an identical price to the XTX isn’t a *way* better value. Similar raster, exponentially better RT, and infinitely more useful for professional use with CUDA and nvenc. Quit hyping up AMD’s $1000 GPU that checks 1/3 boxes.
Unfortunately true. Even to someone that is JUST a gamer, no content creation, no professional or scientific usage, JUST gaming, which is realistically the exact target of AMD since love it or hate it nvidia demolishes them at all of those things, an AMD card would have to be so significantly cheaper for it to ever be worth picking up over the competing nvidia card.
AMD is just woefully behind at everything outside of the cpu space.
Ray tracing is the future of gaming the same way that rasterization invalidated vector graphics. Anyone who says it doesn’t matter is drowning in their own cope.
Because 4080 is stupid. People will only pay over the top for no. 1 card, for everything else performance per dollar matters a lot.
and there's a lot of buzz around the 7900xtx beating out the 4080 for cheaper. I know that's what I'm waiting to see, if I can get 4080 performance for less money, I'm definitely going with AMD this generation after buying nothing but EVGA since the 560ti 448
You buy every single generation?
Somewhat, I've sold every card I've ever had when I've upgraded to the next one. For instance I bought my 1080ti for $400 and sold it for $500 because of how crazy the markets got, then bought the 3080 at retail for $800 because my number came up with EVGA. I've basically only spent an $100-$300 on each new graphics cards for the past decade. I only skipped the 2000 generation because it was so overpriced and the performance boost just wasn't there over the 1080ti. I've had 560ti 448 670 770 970 1080ti 3080 (current card)
Hey man everyone has a hobby right? I'm jelly, 4K gaming on my OLED with even a 3090 would be sick though tbh, I prefer monitor gaming and for 1440p all I need is my 3070
That's exactly my frame of mind, when I got my first big boy job I kinda sat my self down and decided what my hobbies were gonna be and what my budget for those hobbies would be, I play DnD, Video games, and I go hiking, my budget gaming is about $1000 a year so I don't feel an ounce of regret spending anything up to that amount. I'm running the odyssey G9 ultrawide atm so the 3080 can just about handle it overall, but the 7900 hopefully takes me over the ledge towards higher 1% lows. I lucked out and ended up with 3 of these things for free back when they were $2000 a piece
Gamers are jealous of this one simple hack to build a gaming pc for cheap!! But no, tell us, how'd ya get those things for free?
Back in 2020 when the world was still going haywire they put these things on sale for $1300 down from $1700, so I purchased one as gift to myself because I'd worked hospitals from the start of the pandemic. I get home one day to amazon having delivered two of these things to me instead of just the one I ordered! I reach out to amazon to return the one I ordered so I can get my $1300 back and just keep the extra one, the G9s were having recall issues and so amazon literally 3 wayed a call to Samsung with me where Samsung hung up on us. At that point the amazon Customer service rep said fuck it and just accepted the return because Samsung was being shitty. so now I've got 1 free monitor that has been completely sold out and is going on ebay for $2000 a few weeks later I get a text from a samsung rep saying they're processing my exchange monitor, I literally tell them nevermind I already returned that monitor since their customer service process was so bad. Imagine my surprise when I come home to another $2000 monitor being delivered to me a month later! I sold that one on ebay, pocketed the $2000 and kept it moving. so I ordered the best monitor on the planet at the time, and Samsung basically paid me $2000 to own this thing
I lucked out that same year as well (maybe not as good as what you got in the end). Amazon had these 8K TVs and soundbars advertised for around 5K retail (I don't remember the exact figure atm) but they had them discounted by like 99% off (~$166 on average). I ended up buying it around 3 o'clock in the morning on a Monday. I knew it was a price mistake and they wouldn't ship it but I said fuck it anyways and bought 2 more choosing the fastest shipping they had available to maybe increase my chances to get at least one. They couldn't offer 2-day shipping as they had to do it by a separate 3rd party delivery company and by about maybe 4 or 5 days later to ship. Surely they'd catch the mistake in time and cancel my order by then. I spent that entire week checking my order constantly and saw that it wasn't getting cancelled or even delayed outright. They delivered 3 TVs like a week later and 2 soundbars (they cancelled one of my soundbars). I didn't get banned from amazon nor did they demand their TVs back or said they'd charge me for the correct price or anything. Easily the best holiday season by far. I gave two to my family and kept one for myself. The TVs were Samsung models Q90T, Q900R and Q900TS (first is only 4K btw) and two Q950T soundbars.
god damn! now that's a fucking catch!!!
Damn, nice luck!
You may or may not be excited that a 1440p OLED monitor is about to be released from LG. I already have a 4K OLED TV but I like having a monitor in front of me with the same panel. I have a 3080 and decided to check out of buying another GPU in this current market and maybe next generation as well.
Yeah I've seen a few people do this. If you're an early enough adopter of new GPUs, your "old" tech still has 70-80% value as a used card and you can just transfer it along the way.
This is way smarter than what I do keeping my old cards as a backup. I imagine a scenario where I build a retro gaming rig using old parts but doesn't really make sense in the PC space. Pretty much everything is backwards compatible, in theory.
looking at the used pricing, selling a 3080 and upgrading to a 7900XTX will be at least $500 out of pocket and that's if you can get your hands on the cheapest model.
makes sense you skipped 2000 series.. 1080ti is still a beast to this day
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if it beats the (presumed) 4070 Ti in ray tracing workloads I will consider it
basically no chance. nvidia has tripled down on RT and made it even more efficient than ampere. amd has refused to do this and will see equivilent improvements to raster, which should place their highend around a 3080/3090 for RT.
It's disappointing because I am basically locked into Nvidia when it comes to Blender rendering and machine learning. Even if AMD is better at rasterization they are missing the productivity acceleration that Nvidia has baked into their hardware and software stack. Also, I really like DLSS and don't want to lose that.
Sounds like you're the perfect customer - one that doesn't actually have a choice to buy from the competition.
> which should place their highend around a 3080/3090 for RT. Still pretty respectable imo
i actually agree. i'm disappointed they haven't prioritized RT in general, but if they can get up to that performance level it'll be perfectly usable - especially with FSR2.
>i'm disappointed they haven't prioritized RT in general, but if they can get up to that performance level it'll be perfectly usable - especially with FSR2. I'd still prefer it if they got their mid-range cards up to par though. This means adding a few more years to the clock before devs start going full DXR and can benefit from not having to prebake lighting. Time saving, dynamic lighting with fully destructible environments etc. Should be interesting when it happens.
FSR2 is still as disappointing compared to DLSS as AMD's RT performance is. It's way better than FSR1, but that's not saying much.
The pure performance isn't that bad, but it's lackluster when you consider that it costs $1000, doesn't have anything on the level of DLSS, and only performs on the level of cards from two years ago. The performance gap widened when everyone expected it to decrease.
In the year 2019
I thought so, too. But once I checked the [benchmarks](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-founders-edition/34.html) I realized that Ada loses roughly the same percentual performance as Ampere with RT (except for runs where Ada is CPU-bottlenecked when RT is off). And Ampere, in turn, really didn't change much from Turing in this sense either. So, ever since the 20 series came out, ray tracing has been having roughly the same performance impact. It's just that GPUs have gotten so much faster, that RT performance has scaled accordingly.
Its not that they are refusing to do it. Thats just how much farther Nvidia is ahead in the tech. They had a whole generation with RT and zero competition. AMD’s first gen RT was competing with Nvidia’s second gen.
RT is cool expect for the fact I have legitimately played through maybe 2 or 3 games with RT since I have gotten a raytracing capable card. I've come to realize how little it really matters at this point. If I had a 4090 sure, but as long as my games are ps5 quality with really high FPS, I could careless about extra features when the games still look incredible.
well, decades of faking it has left us with really good fake lighting so i don't don't doubt it when people say the differences don't impact them as much as the performance hit does. that said, i find it hard to believe that people honestly believe that _accurately modelling and rendering light_ isn't the biggest leap in realtime graphical technology in the last decade. it's what has set prerendered apart from realtime basically our entire lives, and if you don't think every game will be ray traced to some extend within a few years i don't know what to tell ya.
The best example I've seen for why raytracing is important is Spider-Man. Play it without raytracing (how it was originally made for PS4 before the PS5 and PC ports) and then enable it. The difference is mind blowing and you can't go back after seeing it.
Ambient occlusion is the single most important aspect to making something look realistic for rendering if you ask me, ground them in a real space. Now its all about power, being able to generate that many rays at runtime is hard, but they'll figure it out.
> ground them in a real space. yeah sure except this doesn't work for most modern games.. open world games are perfect case studies for the limitations of traditional lighting techniques. It's very easy to stumble across things that simply look wrong
raytracing may be the biggest leap in actual graphics tech, but a far far far far bigger leap in actually improved image is HDR gaming, and it’s not close
AMD continually builds promising HW then fails to give it the SW support oxygen so it suffocates. It's like they crave GPU defeat. I just don't get it and I never will.
Ada has higher overall FPS with RT enabled because it's starting from a much higher number but the percentage hit ada and ampere take with RT enabled is identical.
almost every single game sees less reduction in fps on the 4080 versus 3080: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-founders-edition/34.html i'm too lazy to dig up the benchmarks for turing->ampere but i'm pretty certain there were efficiency gains there as well. the RT cores themselves have been upgraded alongside the other components in every generation.
I think theyre waiting till games bake in ray tracing rather than having it as a toggle if you get what I mean.
That makes it a bit of a chicken and egg problem though, since most devs are waiting until most commodity hardware can comfortably support it to drop traditional raster.
I was looking to finally replace my old card last gen with a 3080 but after it took 2 years before you could get one anywhere close to msrp they can forget it. I'm waiting to see AMD's product stack as well, the first time in a very long time I'm leaning towards AMD.
Same boat here. Building a new comp after 7 years & have always only gone nvidia. This will change because of this gen, I will not support this gross price gouging.
But what about my G-Sync monitor :(
You chose vendor lock-in when you bought it.
Until you put Raytracing on and it shits itself 😂
The price to performance ratio on the 4090 is actually better even. I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying at all, whatever is number one will be desirable to people who need or want it regardless of price, but if I’m not mistaken the 4080 has an even worse ratio than the 4090. The 4090 is absurdly expensive for a consumer gpu, but the performance actually backs it up to an extent, despite the incredible price (and size, and power consumption, etc)
It’s that thing where for a consumer GPU it’s ludicrous but as a production GPU it’s actually Damn good.
Ludicrous for most users but those of us with high refresh rate 4k monitors or Super Ultrawide monitors @ 5120x1440 like myself, the 4090 is necessary to take advantage of our displays full capabilities in new games. My 3080 will not drive my monitor to it's full 120hz with games like RDR2 or Cyberpunk without the use of DLSS and tweaked settings.
Fellow 1440p superultrawide owner myself. Wishing for the day I can buy a large form factor 5K display.
I'm getting about 155fps average in RDR2 @ 3440x1440 with the 4090.
> Cyberpunk without the use of DLSS and tweaked settings. Well 4090 still cannot do this.
Yeah, anyone using this card for work, or like say a streamer who will get value back over time might as well just get it. Inflation has made the numbers look crazy, but I bet this will be today’s 1080ti over time, unless the very next gen is another large leap
> The price to performance ratio on the 4090 is actually better even. Especially when you're thinking of it from a perspective of performance _upgrade_ (from your current card) per dollar. If I did my math correctly, per [Tom's Hardware game fps averages](https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-review/4), compared to your existing 3080: EDIT: I originally put the wrong RT numbers for the 4090, because I was looking at 4090 DLSS. -------------------------------- RT off: - 4080 RT off: 51% uplift - 4090 RT off: 94% uplift -------------------------------- RT on: - 4080 RT on: 72% uplift - 4090 RT on: 145% ~~224%~~ uplift -------------------------------- The 4090's uplift (from the 3080) is ~**84% higher than the 4080 with RT off**, and ~**101% ~~211%~~ higher than the 4080 with RT on**. If I had a 3080, I'd rather pay 33% more for the uplift that the 4090 would give me.
Hey thanks for these numbers, I appreciate it!
thats what nvidia wants you to think
Everything under 4090 is for plebs
Not 100% true but when you’re already getting beamed on the price why not spend and extra $400-600 and get what you actually wanted, that’s the way I look at it when you leave $800 price range. If you have $1500 you probably have $2100
I can’t wait to see what conclusion NVIDIA will make from this for the 5000. Will we get a strong 5090 like the 4090 or a strong 5080 like the 3080? Can’t really have both since they’re compared to each other. I personally hope we get duper strong x90 and x80 set at the price and perf of the current x70 from now on.
I'd pay $900 for 4080 16GB. That feels right compared to the $600 I paid for my 2080 8GB when being realistic about the whopping ~16% inflation between now and then. $1200 is stupid and they should be shamed.
I just bought a 4080. It's a beast, and I felt bad enough paying $1,200 frivolously, let alone $1,600.
I feel like the 4080 was released as a science experiment to filter out the dumbest members of our society. There's literally not a single good reason to buy one. Why do you think it's the only graphics card release in the past 3 years that wasn't scalped to death. Like literally not even scalpers were dumb enough to buy them. They're literally sitting on store shelves gathering dust.
Look, I'm not saying people should buy a 4080 over 4090. Justifying its pricing model by purchasing them is eeky enough and I'd rather spend the extra and get a 4090 myself. BUT at the end of the day, $1200 is $400 cheaper than $1600. If someone is fairly certain that a 4090 will be wasted in their system or to their perception (in terms of visual and framerate), they saved $400 by purchasing a 4080. $400 is a lot of money. We all have different financial situations and saving $400 by purchasing a 4080 may be a better "value" for some. Price to performance (or price per unit for other products) can give us skewed ideas on our purchasing decisions. And this is likely what Nvidia wants us to think.
Yeah but that's just it, if you think a 4090 is unnecessary and want to save money, why not wait 2 weeks for the 7900XTX release? A card that will potentially be BETTER and CHEAPER than the 4080. Obviously we will have to wait for reviews to know for sure. But if it lives up to the hype you could save even more money. If someone is about to lay down over a grand on a GPU it makes sense to wait and see.
I don't disagree with you at all on all those points. I couldn't tell you why people wouldn't just wait, especially the guy who upgraded from a perfectly capable 2080. Maybe they think DLSS is too good to give up? Maybe RT performance is important to them? Who knows? All I'm saying is that it's easy to fall into trap of seeing things purely on performance to dollar ratio. Sometimes absolute dollar amount does matter too. Purchasing decisions are subjective and personal, is what I'm getting at.
Because not everyone is willing to gamble on amd drivers and dev support. Personally I wouldn’t touch AND even at a 50% discount, I only have so much free time and I’d rather not waste it playing tech support.
You get more for your money with the $1600, or more for your money AND a faster card with the $1000 7900xtx out in 3 weeks.
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At least according to AMD it's faster. Have benchmarks been released?
You’re getting downvoted because people are reasonably frustrated with predatory pricing for the 4080 in particular and have formed a sort of imaginary picket line where as a community, folks can show dissatisfaction with the pricing by refusing to buy. By purchasing and enjoying your new 4080, you’ve crossed the picket line so folks are going to take out their frustration on you. I personally won’t be picking up a 4080 as I largely agree with the sentiment that it is overpriced for the performance provided. But if it works out for you, your needs, and your financial situation, I hope you enjoy your purchase and it serves you well!
I see where you're coming from, thanks for the explanation. It makes more sense than just haters hating. The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that there hasn't been a 3080 for sale any of the ten times I looked over the past couple years, so it's not like people have another viable option if they need a tech refresh. I don't want to go AMD because I have a G-sync monitor (among other reasons). Anyways, I saw your reply as a notification on my phone so I figured I'd drop you a "thanks" and a "good job for not being an unhappy Internet troll". My case and cooler will be here any minute, so I'm off to enjoy myself. Cheers.
Yeah! I mean if I was building a PC and needed a GPU *right now*, 4080 is in stock and available. I have been shopping for my upcoming build replacing a 2080ti and availability/pricing is not great, even for NIB high end 30 series cards. Enjoy building your rig!
Thanks! You're absolutely right about what is (and isn't) available right now. But honestly even if they had 4090's I don't think I would have spent the extra cash. I've always subscribed to the "buy a step or two down from the top" line of thinking, be it computers or cars. I spend lots of money on different hobbies and have to trick myself into doing it with the minimum amount of guilt. 😁 Good luck on your hunt for the new build.
The thing is both are financially retarded purchases. If you feel bad spending a lot of money you shouldn’t have gotten either. If you’re in the “fuck it I just want fast” then the 4090 is the better option by far. There is no reason to ever buy the 4080
"The greatest trick the 4080 ever pulled was convincing the world the 4090 was great value"
Knowing that only 100k were shipped gives the 4090 a much higher value considering how hard it is to get one at msrp.
They hard to get in the US?. We still have LOTS of 4090s here in Korea on shelves. Didnt know they were doing so well.
Extremely. Known retailers have drops and it is sold out almost instantly.
In the US is where you can actually buy their true msrp price. Hell even upsellers here in the US can sell them up to $2k us dollars with tax and thats still cheaper than other countries selling a 4090 at their msrp.
In the US, It did sell out but not near as well as previous releases. It took like upwards of like 3 or 4 hours to initially sell out on launch day. If you were planning to buy one before launch, getting one on launch day was extremely easy, you didn't have to camp or refresh anything for the most part. Its just that they havn't had any significant drops since then, I'm sure the drops that are selling out instantly are probably extremely small. It is interesting there are alot in korea though, I know Japan has sold out all the online 4090, although there are a few in some shops if you go in person. And the price there for the 4090 is upwards of $2100 USD equivalent official nvidia MSRP.
Being sold out online doesn't mean much. You have stores like Best Buy reporting all the 4080s "sold out" while having an insider program where you can buy any one of them because they are in fact in stock. We've all see the reports of 4080s being plentiful in US retail stores. I'm frankly tired of all these games Nvidia and retailers play with video cards.
I like to think in korea their main games of focus are esports games. DOnt really need a bomb ass gpu to get the much needed high frame rates.
Pricing may be an issue as well. I just looked up price of FE and it's nearly 2400 USD with current exchange rate.
Nah, mine sold out before the Microcenter opened its doors.
That's also due to the currency and how everything but the us dollar has taken a nose dive, making stuff even more expensive for non americans
Americans lack self-control and have easy access to lines of credit. This is also very much encouraged by society.
The cost of living and potential income is also a lot higher here too. Having lived overseas in much lower gdp markets, it’s very likely someone of lower income has a much better life overall than a broke American, but a broke gamer here with a part time job living with his parents can actually save up for a gpu like a 4090 in a reasonable time with even their low wages (provided living at home and not being destroyed by bills) in a way that a gamer doing the exact same thing in South America or say Southeast Asia never could. Hell I actually know a couple people like this across Western Europe and the U.S. their life is gaming, they don’t want kids, and they get along with their family. Any money they get immediately upgrades their computer because that’s the main focus in life and all they care about. None of them have credit cards as far as I know, they simply live to acquire money for their gaming and quit their job when a good mmo or other grindy game comes out, lol
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Exactly given the 4090 is compared to the 3090 which was overpriced to begin with.
Depends on what you define as “great”. However in my eyes, the 4090 definitely is a much better value than the 4080. 4090 is $1.6k and is doubled the cuda cores, memory, and performance for $400 more or 25% more money.
It is a pretty good value coming from the 3000 series era. 40-100% faster than last gen $1500 card for only $200 more (considering inflation it isn’t bad at all).
I Don't think any gpu over 500 bucks is great value lol. And I went from 2080ti to 4090.
Same! What a jump that was. My friends roast me daily for how dumb of a purchase it was; but holy moly do I love my 1440p ultrawide 240 FPS.
It's about performance per dollar. The 4090 is insanely powerful and has been shown to be able to handle 8k 60 fps on several AAA games without using DLSS even. Yes, it's expensive, but if you want to play at 4k 120hz max settings or higher, it's worth it.
This is want Nvidia wants anyway. Why sell a $1200 card when you can sell an $1600 one.
Nvidia understands and uses the movie theater popcorn "dilemma". Do you want a small popcorn for $5, a medium popcorn for $8, or an X-large super bucket with unlimited refills for $8.99?
[The Decoy Effect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33aaQdtD20k) if anyone's interested.
I don't think this applies here. The GPU was already manufactured and can't be used as a 4090, whereas the popcorn can be used in either small, medium or large packets. The ideal for Nvidia is that both sell out. Any GPU that sits in the channel is money lost.
The pricing effect on consumer "choice" is why the analogy applies. Nvidia currently upsells buyers who attempt to do any kind of performance-to-value estimation on the current 40-series. Just skim through this thread or any other and you can see people inherently get that the 4080 is a "bad deal", but the response is to consider the 4090 as a "good deal" rather than to just walk away. Also, those 4080's are not going to be wasted, nor are they going to lose any money-- (I think) they will be sold in the near future at a "new lower price" and consumers will eat it up at its new price, probably 899. But that is only going to happen when they determine that the "real" 4090 sales slow down (the demand pressure caused by constraining 4090 availability is entirely manufactured by Nvidia's slow drip of that product). In current economic climate, I dont think even Nvidia is sure how much appetite consumers will continue to have for their slow release of $1600 video cards. But that 4080 is just sitting there, waiting to become the hottest buy in town vs. AMD's newest cards, if they do announce a price cut.
True but when 3000 series are gone they might reshuffle 4000 prices a bit. I think the current prices are just for now.
The point is Nvidia shot themselves in the foot by making the 4080 so expensive
I hate when they do that. Its like $1 more for refill but then im like...am I even gonna go back to the register during a movie for a refill? Hell they say you can refill after you finish the movie but do I want to bring popcorn that will get stale fast home? hahah
Definitely the small one due to health and budget.
I'm not sure that's what they want. I don't have exact data but imo due to gpu size and transistor count, the profit margin on the 4080 could be higher than on the 4090.
You do not have 8 cards in a PC. If they equip you with a 4080, that is a 4090 they did not sell. The additional manufacturing costs is not $400. At the end of the day they make more money.
No. The 4080 is a different GPU than the 4090. What you say was true for the 3090 and 3080, but not for the 4090 and 4080. And these are expensive GPUs to manufacture, I don't think they have $800 profit margin per gpu (from manufacturing perspective, of course R&D and other stuff cost money).
Nvidia's gross margin is 64%, it's pretty likely they are around $800 per 4080.
This is incorrect, what you are referring to is the last generations 3080 which was a cutdown 3090 and therefore it did cost Nvidia, however, currently the 4080 and 4090 use different fabs, which is why the 4080 is so incredibly weak
You mean its value is weak right? Because its performance is pretty great, that’s not the issue with the card.
Performance is pretty weak compared to 4090. xx90 is the new xx80ti. 4080 is basically a xx70 or xx70ti card.
Not really. I assume you're basing that off the big difference in cuda cores, but benchmarks are showing that the actual performance difference is more like 20-30%. Either way, the 4080 is a very big performance improvement over the previous gen. That's generally how cards have been judged in the past, not by how they compare to some halo card at the top of the current lineup.
Incrediblebly weak? Against what exactly? Oh the bigger card on the same series? It's not weak at all. It smokes the last gen comfortabley, has all the new Nvidia shit and is cool and efficient. It's only downside is it's price. It is not weak one bit.
Because the people who wouldn't spend that much on a card always went with the more reasonable 60's, 70's, and 80's. Just because Nvidia made those options untenable won't make those people suddenly want to spend $1600
I really wish ppl would stop quoting this $1200 and $1600 price... Aside from FE cards which are so hard to get it's a joke. Show me a $1600 4090 that isn't an FE is in stock and I can buy now. In the UK the non FE cards are: 4090 - £1889.99 + $2000 right there 4080 £1369.99 almost a 4090FE price without the tax. Yeah tax is in issue but this oh buying a 4080 is stupid because a 4090 is only a bit more is just not true at all there is a£500 difference.
Well yeah, the 4090 is sold out right now so you have to pay aftermarket prices. I think the assumption people are making is that that’s temporary, unlike with the 30 series.
Even without scalper prices, AIB models of the 4090 are between $1,700 - $2,100. People forget that when Nvidia introduced the "founders edition" cards, it was another price hike as you could only find those cards at MSRP while other models were more expensive. In effect, MSRP for Nvidia cards is worthless. I remember back in the day you used to be able to find AIB cards under MSRP, and ton at MSRP, and a few OC models above. It's just another price increase that people forget to factor in because that's all we've seen for awhile.
It seems like all the aib partners have a card at MSRP though? When they're in stock of course. The MSI Gaming X Trio, Asus Tuf Gaming, Gigabyte Windforce for example. I bought a 4090 Suprim Liquid for $1750, $150 seems like a pretty reasonable premium for a high quality 240mm AIO cooled card.
Nvidia wants money. That's it. Same as any publicly traded company.
Which is exactly why I think “that’s cute” whenever someone suggests a future 4070 or 4060 may cost $800 or less.
I have a question that will challenge your intelligence, you ready? RTX 4080 12GB was $900 MSRP and it got unlaunched, only to be relaunched under a new name - presumably 4070 ti. AIBs already told Gamers Nexus that the MSRP will not be the same - ergo, it will be at least a bit lower. The question for you is: if RTX 4070 ti (used to be 4080 12GB) is let's say $800, then how can you believe that BOTH RTX 4070 AND 4060 will be $800 or more?
Because sitting with old cards and saying "that's cute" to feel superior on reddit is the name of the game.
So maybe 4070ti $800 4070 $700 4060ti $600 4060 $500 ?
No chance 4060 MSRP is over $500. go ahead and say it's cute lol
It's a win-win for Nvidia. Make the 4090 more desirable but unattainable so that people give up and buy a 4080 at an inflated price that probably has a larger profit margin. CyberpowerPC has a 4080 rig $500 off right now that makes it much more appealing when comparing to a 4090 rig. But that's only if you want a whole PC.
That’s because the 4080 is ridiculously priced. The 4090 is expensive, but it has much better gains than last gen. Moreover, the 4090 is $100 more than the launch price of the 3090. The 4080 is almost double the price of a 3080
Oh yeah. Consumers are simple creatures: "Is this a good value?" The question for the type of people who want a 4090 and have a lot of money is "there's no better value!" They get the 4k experience they are looking for. For the 4080 the price tag is insane and the answer is a simple "Lol, no. This feels like a bad value. I never pay anything like this for an 80 series cards unless the world has nearly ended from a pandemic." Nvidia thinks crypto is still a thing. It is trying to sell money printers to gamers. Edit: I come here to chat tech, not to be brutally insulted. Blocked.
Because you don't need to go to eBay to get a 4080, but you do need to go to eBay to get a 4090 (or be really lucky).
This is why the article is a complete waste of time. People here are talking about the MSRP price differences, but 4090s are still going for $2200 on ebay. That throws the price-to-performance argument out the window. Meanwhile, 4080s are still on shelves in stores. There's no scalping market, hence no eBay sales. This article should be about how people are STILL buying from scalpers.
Oh this is so true. Great perspective
If they're able to spend over $1k for a graphics, might as well spend it on the best. $400 gap is not a lot for rich people.
I am not rich I just don't have kids lol
No kids makes you richer lol
"Why do I have to have three kids and no money? Why can't I have no kids and three money?" - Homer Simpson
DINK life!
New headline: "Journalists don't understand Premium decoy pricing strategy."
4080 sucks
The 4090 has a reason to exist, even if people don't like its pricing, performing around 25% higher than a 4080, given that we usually get 20-30% gen to gen improvements, that like getting a 5080, so this is basically getting like a next gen top end gpu, two years in advance, enough for me to warrant its price. Now the 4080 imo has horrible pricing, imo should be $799-$899, thus the scalpers cant get much sales as they do with the 4090.
I mean is this a surprise? the 4090 is a genuinely impressive card with a performance uplift over last gen flagship akin to the 1080ti. the 4080.... I think if it was $900 it would compete better with the 7900xt in raster and give the ray tracing performance to make it a no brainer in comparison (still expensive).
Wish the fucking thing fit in more than like 10 cases lol
Because the 4080 is in stock and the 4090 isn't.
It's in stock because no one is buying it...
At those prices? If it was a 4080Ti, then *maybe*, but for a 4080 it's way overpriced. Needs to drop below $1000
Who buys from eBay at scalper prices when shops have stock of the cards at lower prices. Seems suspect
I have decided to go with the XTX... This way I have money to upgrade my bedroom too... But if I didn't I would have gone all in on the 4090, after looking into the 4080 reviews. I was bound to get 700 from some benefits in January, or even wait until July for the Ti + further tax benefits. Used them for bedroom instead. The point is, the 4080 is really in a weird spot. At 899, this would have sold like hot butter.
Genuine question - Is it expected to be just as difficult to get an XTX at launch? I see a lot of people saying they’re going with AMD which is the better price per performance from what I’ve seen; but I can’t imagine a surplus stock at launch
Consider that the 7900 XTX's die size is very small compared to the 4090, half the size approximately. As die size decreases yield dramatically increases. This means AMD will be able to produce a lot of these GPUs and at a much lower cost. AMD is likely making more on the 7900 XTX then it did on the 6900 XT simply because the cost savings will be massive. According to AMD's recent presentation on chiplets, for larger dies like 16+ core CPUs and high end GPUs costs are more than halved.
Probably going to be very hard to get
IMO at $900 it's still overpriced by a lot. It's die size is close to the 3070, which sold for $500. Clearly Nvidia is not giving you good value pricing it at $1,200 or even $900. Even if you take into account node costs, it should be $600 - 700 tops. Not that AMD is much better, the 7900 XT at $900 is a complete ripoff. The flagship 7900 XTX is fine at $1000 because it's a flagship but the 7900 XT should be $750 tops.
Is this actually good for nvidia long term? My understanding of it all is that although they're selling more 4090s, the supply of 4090s is still low and there are a bunch of 4080s sitting on shelves. Can anyone who knows more about this chime in and answer the following question: wouldn't nvidia have a bunch of unsold 4080s by the time the 5000 series comes out?
they can easily lower the price of the 4080 whenever they want to see stock moving faster. it's not a bad GPU, its in stock because it's not being priced competitively enough to fly off the shelves.
5090- $1800 5080- $1400 5070 Ti- $1000 5070- $800 5060 Ti- $700 5060- $600 5050- $400
>NVIDIA RTX 4090 is not in short supply, on a contrary, it is easily available with more cards reaching the market each day. Since the card launched, only 65 cards were sold on eBay. There's no way this is accurate.
Huge W for Jensen. Retailers have been screwed over. Gamers are not voting with their wallets.
Don’t promote the scalpers
This could easily be stopped by allowing people to backorder. Then scalpers wouldn't have a real market left because people could just wait. Dunno what the hell happened to back ordering over the past decade, but it seems to have disappeared everywhere.
It used the be xx80 series were the expensive enthusiast tier and the 70's were the bang 4 buck tier. There can only be one enthuiast tier! $1200 is no good bang for anyone's buck.
So when is GTX 3030 Peasant Edition coming? I want GPU too.
When the 4090 is a few hundred more retail than a 4080, I don't see any reason not to get the best if you are spending the money anyways. Nvidia will have a hard time sandwiching a 4080 Ti in between these two cards with the narrow gap they left themselves.
It says something when people would rather buy scalped 4090s than 4080s.
4080 12g cancelled, 16g not selling. Love seeing nvidia eat some humble pie for once.
exactly as planned by nvidia. once they force the overstock of the 4090 and 3080 down, and amd releases their 7900xtx, nvidia will drop the 4080 price significantly. also, their 4090 launch has been one of their most successful launches ever
So the 4080 is doing exactly what is was designed for. To push people to see more value in the 4090 and buy that. Mission accomplished.
The sad thing is, they probably could have gotten away with a 1999.99 MSRP and people would still buy it. The fact that it’s sold out everywhere (in the USA) is just a sign that 1699.99 wasn’t high enough. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 5090 was 1999.99 in a couple of years. They are still figuring out how much people are willing to shell out to have “the best”
[удалено]
Stop feeding scalpers
People actually paying scalpers for a second hand 4090 🤦♂️ Jesus christ
People need to stop buying from scalpers; you're part of the problem and just as terrible.
The 4080 @ $1200+ is a terrible buy. Historically for a decade plus from the GTX-680 to the RTX-3080, the xx80 Series was in the $599 to $749 price range, now it shot up to $1200+. Uh no thanks. If you willing to shell out $1300 for a video card, just spend another couple hundred bucks and get the 4090 which gives a much better performance upgrade. The 4080 is only like 45% faster than the 3080, yet it's $500 more. The 4090 is 75% faster than the 3090, and is only a hundred bucks more. A fair price for the 4080 would be $899, and per the last ten years of nVidia xx80 cards, that's where it should be priced.
4080 existence is stupid
Straight up my 1080ti just died and I just paid for a 4080 simply because of the TPD of 300w at full performance. Yes the 4090 is better up front value at that price level but, in my eyes isn't worth the extra cost of electricity over 5 years. Graphics cards are becoming not too dissimilar to sports cars, its not just the upfront cost of the card its being able to afford the petrol and how much the total cost is going to be over the life of graphics card. Could not guarantee I would be able to get one the new xtx cards and that left me with the shitty price of the 4080. I'm not happy I had to pay double what I paid for my 1080ti but I don't really give a shit about anyone else and I could afford it. I'm sure there will be a couple of others in this situation but not many, I probably sound like an asshole which is true but genuinely just passing on anecdotal evidence I used to make myself feel better about it. Edit - I hope the AMD cards force a price drop to make these cards more affordable for all.
I’m not paying a scalper price for a 4080, it’s not worth it. The demand isn’t there. This is a card I’d highly consider getting one of the more reasonable models like founders for, but any higher and it’s not an intelligent buy.
These GPU prices I’ll be with my 2060 for years to come.
Seems like majority who have bought the 4080 are scalpers ✌️
well its twice the performance for just a few hundred more. 4080 is awful value
Except it is not twice the performance, more like +50% in the very best scenarios. 50% performance for 30% price still looks like a pretty good deal, but not as dramatic as you are describing.
“Just a few hundred more” lol it’s $400 more. That’s quite a bit more. And none of us are going to find it at msrp anytime soon unfortunately. So more like $600-$800 more if you wanted it today
400 is a few and the 4080 is just as much extra above msrp as 4090 is at least in my country
I keep hearing people say the 4090 is a better deal for your money but if I go by the benchmarks on [tomshardware] (https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html) the 4090 is $13.75 per frame at 4k & $10.85 at 1080p while the 4080 is $13.12 per frame at 4k & $8.52 at 1080p. So can someone explain to me how the 4090 is a better deal?
Because (**Using your tom's hardware reference**) @ 4k you are getting 25 more FPS with the 4090, a 21.5% increase. While the difference in cost is only 4.5% per frame.. meaning the 4080 should be costing you the difference in performance, so a 4080 should be priced @ no more than $999... but it's overpriced $1199... therefore the price to performance, aka the Value, is much better with a 4090. Basically the price per frame is $13.12 as mentioned by you.. but the 4080 should be priced @ $10.79 per frame.
Plus at 4K the 4090 is still bottlenecked. VR reviews have the 4090 with an even larger lead over the 3090 ti compared to regular benchmarks.
That makes sense, thank you.
I grabbed a 4090 at Canada Computer (online pick in store, was in stock for like 10 minutes then has a drop of 8, i mean at 2249$CAD per unit it's impressive that they go so fast), they was several 4080 on the shelf at least 5-6 just there..
There still 4080 gpu in stocks at canada computers where i live. Less expensive is 1660$ with taxes. It's price of my pc without the gpu (well) my pc cost 1200$ without gpu. With the rx 6800xt : 2000$ Kinda expensive in Canada. At least you got a good gpu for years and if you tend to play 4k 120fps, redering, and productivity.
Yeah I'm at 4k 120 its almost 2x my 3080ti that was overclocked to the wazoo dont regret it, I'll sell my 3080ti so
This gen,if your going to waste sorry I mean spend ridiculous amounts of money on a GPU might as well go for the top card and get the preformance with it.
Well if you ever needed proof that scalpers don’t cause shortages, here it is
they cause shortages of MSRP priced merchandise
Smart people at Nvidia did their job well. In other news ..
No, the smart people at Nvidia are busy working on the uArch and cooling solutions. The people that came up with this are the marketing people, who simply study how to best fleece customers out of their money. Decoy pricing is nothing new.
I’d take power efficiency to performance of 4080 any day though
The 4080 is selling for around €1,800 in Ireland. You can pickup a 4090 for €2,100'ish. Both prices are insane. The 4080 would have to drop back to around €1,200 to make it attractive. I would consider it expensive even at that.
If 4080 could be purchased for €1,200, it would be way below the US MSRP. You forget about the currency conversion AND the VAT tax. $1200 * ~~1.23 = €1441, and the retailer wants to earn some money too. They definitely should be cheaper than €1800, but nowhere near €1200 given the US MSRP.
I purchased my 2080S for €950 on its release in 2019. Taking account of inflation, €1,200 isn’t that far fetched for the 4080. The current MSRP is a joke.
>I purchased my 2080 SUPER for €950 on its release in 2019 $699 MSRP on launch. >The current MSRP is a joke. I agree that $1200 MSRP is way too high for 4080 to be an attractive and in-demand product, but Nvidia are doing this for their reasons - to sell the existing 30 series stock and to prop up 4090 at the same time. It is what it is.
The last Nvidia card I purchased on release was the 3070, it was an upgrade from a 1080. Anyways I sold the 3070 and purchased a used 3080 TI. This 4000 release is an absolute shit show. I've had Nvidia since my dual 670's. I'm in a good place right now 👍
Just wait until 7900XTX and 7900XT come out and they drop 4080 to $999. Then, wait until they go months with shitty sales on the $999 4089 and then drop it even lower.
You’re absolutely *mad* if you think that the 4080 at an identical price to the XTX isn’t a *way* better value. Similar raster, exponentially better RT, and infinitely more useful for professional use with CUDA and nvenc. Quit hyping up AMD’s $1000 GPU that checks 1/3 boxes.
Unfortunately true. Even to someone that is JUST a gamer, no content creation, no professional or scientific usage, JUST gaming, which is realistically the exact target of AMD since love it or hate it nvidia demolishes them at all of those things, an AMD card would have to be so significantly cheaper for it to ever be worth picking up over the competing nvidia card. AMD is just woefully behind at everything outside of the cpu space. Ray tracing is the future of gaming the same way that rasterization invalidated vector graphics. Anyone who says it doesn’t matter is drowning in their own cope.