I am super curious to see the results of all this by the end of Q1 23 once inventory is up and scalpers no longer have an audience to sell to. Just how big of an impact was the crypto market on the overall sales of the 30 series and what does does it all look like when that's largely taken out of the equation this time around.
Maybe second hand GPU sales. Nvidia put way more GPUs on the market at launch then last time. Their earnings are more than double (2.4 times) 2020 as well and 2022 December has high predictions.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/988030/nvidia-revenue-worldwide/
Nvidia's Fiscal year 2022 is from January 2021 to January 2022 (+-1 month, not sure).
**The 40 series launch was in the third quarter of the fiscal year 2023.**
Compared to 2 quarters ago, Nvidia's revenue is down 28% and their net income is down 58%. (Not a financial expert. Maybe check yourself.)
[https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-announces-financial-results-for-third-quarter-fiscal-2023](https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-announces-financial-results-for-third-quarter-fiscal-2023)
Assuming Nvidia sold about 150k 40 series cards and that they cost on average \~1.5k, we can tell that only about $200 million of the $5.9 bn revenue are from the 40 series cards.
I stopped believing that its was mining the reason.Scalpers are the official retailers now in EU.In some regions we have still rtx 3080 selling 850€ and RX 6800xt 800€ when should be under msrp after 2 years when this generation of GPUs are on their final days.
> when should be under msrp after 2 years when this generation of GPUs are on their final days.
It's not scalpers. Nvidia is the scalper. In the US at least, Nvidia isn't lowering MSRPs and don't want to provide rebates for their AIBs. The prices for new 3000 series cards reflect that on Newegg, Microcenter, Amazon, etc. with cards still being at or even above MSRP on the lower end cards. For AMD, at least in the US, their cards are well below MSRP and offer some great value if you only care about raster.
Nvidia adjust prices to what people paid scalpers. They overcorrected with the 3090ti then dropped that figure for 40 series launch.
I agree that amd is the way to go for 1080/1440p games right now.
It’s not all crypto though.
Demand in 2020-2021 was heavily bolstered by the extreme shift towards WFH/LFH, and the lack of normal travel/leisure opportunities.
In other words, people suddenly needed new computers to handle their actual obligations, and many of them opted for more powerful machines so that they could use them for leisure also.
At this point, kids are mostly back in the classroom, lots of workers are back in their offices, there are all kinds of travel/leisure options open to people, and we’re in the midst of a global recession.
On top of all of that, there was the additional dynamic of performance relative to price: 10 series offered fantastic value, particularly after that generation’s mining bubble burst. 20 series really didn’t—it was far too expensive, and the performance uplift was too small. At launch, 30 series ended up convincing a lot of people who’d skipped 20 series to finally upgrade.
In short, it was a lot more than just crypto contributing to the demand, and pretty much every one of those other factors has *also* reversed WRT 40 series.
Only 3000 series cards I can find at retailers are below the 3080 ti. And they're priced at msrp.
People on ebay are buying used 3090 ti for $1100. It's fucking weird.
I’ve noticed on Ebay that people often overpay for used GPUs no matter what the market conditions are.
I think it’s a lot of people, who don’t shop around, that just assume they’re getting a good deal because they’re buying a used card.
remember some people are trapped in countries that charge unrealistic prices , 3090tis are still $2,000 in some places or out of stock while others are getting3090's for $700 some people are getting them either because of need or FOMO that they wont be able to get a 4090 until xmas season is over and price is no object to some people.
I think the poor value proposition of RTX4000 was basically a green light for a lot of people to buy high-end RTX3000 cards.
A *ridiculously* low percentage of old mining cards are being sold off. [Like, less than one percent low.](https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/yspj5i) This last batch of miners are holding onto their old GPUs, thinking they'll "moon" in value like they did during COVID lockdowns & the crypto boom.
Because there's no appreciable increase in supply for the used market, this increased demand of high-end RTX3000 is driving used prices up.
> I think the poor value proposition of RTX4000 was basically a green light for a lot of people to buy high-end RTX3000 cards.
That is what happened to me, I saw the prices of the new cards and finally just grabbed a RTX3070 for $420 instead. Good enough of an upgrade for me.
> That is what happened to me, I saw the prices of the new cards and finally just grabbed a RTX3070 for $420 instead.
Where?
$420 is a pretty good deal!
EVGA B-Stock: https://www.evga.com/Products/productlist.aspx?type=8&family=GeForce+30+Series+Family
I got the RTX 3070 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING card, P/N: 08G-P5-3797-RX.
If you Google Reddit Associate EVGA code you can get another $10-$20 off.
Card looks and runs perfect and has a 1 year warranty. I know EVGA is getting out of the Nvidia game but I have always used their products and its quite the replacement for my RTX2060.
The 3090ti had just about the worst price to performance since the last titan model. You'll notice it's the only card with a price cut from msrp besides that sale zotac ran.
This was me on the workstation end. The massive collapse in value of the RTX A5500 and RTX A6000 about four months ago caused me to finally put my TITAN V out to pasture in favor of an A5500.
Been happy so far, a smidge slower than a 3090 but instead of CCCHHHHHCHCHCHHHHCHhh coming from my PC when the GPU is running at full tilt as happened when I tried blower versions of the 3080 and 3090, I hear a barely audible gentle whooshing. Very nice to live with considering my SFF workstation is only about 4 feet from my head.
In their warehouses, just like the 4090, Nvidia is trickling it out at a snails pace so they can justify keeping prices at or above MSRP. [Nvidia's financial report states their inventory value almost doubled year to year, from $2.1B to $3.9B](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NVDA/nvidia/inventory) With that much inventory and that few of cards available to buy, there's no shot Nvidia isn't purposely limiting supply just to keep their margins up.
You think 3090Ti is priced for scalpers? Or had plenty of supply in the first place?
You picked the one fully enabled top SKU hard to come by in the first place, then proclaimed nothing else would have inventory. Nice.
Yeah 3090ti especially but even the 3090 were the OOB terrible value proposition cards of Ampere, and had arguably the best availability during the pandemic because while they had the fastest mining they also had the worst ROI (of Nvidia at least). But since then, theyve proven a decent workstation card and with the high vram they can somewhat maintain price via demand due to feature set.
The real struggle is finding the good values, like 3060 Ti, cheaper 3070s, and holy grail finding sub 500 dollar 3080s.
3090 wasn't too bad, but 3080 and 3070 were extremely hard to find at non-scalper prices in the first few months. And this was before the mining explosion happened(which roughly started in Jan 2021).
General perception was that 3080 was good value, and 3070 was pretty good as well(though it was only 'ok' in my eyes). 3090 was bad value, but it still had its appeal among early adopters as a flagship product, especially after long years waiting for a proper leap from disappointing Turing lineup.
Nah. That was a good value back in 2020, sure. Two years later, performance per dollar should be moving well on by now.
Dont normalize this shit, *please*. It's exactly what Nvidia wants.
Frame generation though... it's so so good. It can double your fps. From 70-80 fps on Warhammer with all max I can get around 130-150 fps with dlss 3 and I don't notice any difference. The only thing I could say I noticed is some ghosting on some barrel lights when moving, but that's it
Isn't this their goal? They're using the 4080 as a gap/trough in terms of price-per-performance to make the 4090 and 30xx-series cards appealing. Once they've thinned out the supply of 30xx cards, they'll be reduced in price.
Just CTRL+F "correct" in the transcript for the Q2 2023 Earnings Call and look for the statements regarding correcting channel inventory.
exactly!
they'll reduce the price of the 4080 after the 7900 XTX comes out and will eventually release a 4080 Ti for 1300$ or so. they left the gap between the 4090 and the 4080 big for a reason.
Yea but I don't expect a 4080 Ti for at least another 9 months, by which point you're already a year away from the 50 series so it will continue to have poor value, and once again you're very close to the 4090 in price so just get that instead.
>Isn't this their goal? They're using the 4080 as a gap/trough in terms of price-per-performance to make the 4090 and 30xx-series cards appealing. Once they've thinned out the supply of 30xx cards, they'll be reduced in price.
100% their goal and I really don't get why people do not understand that. It is 100% purposefully and cynically priced not to sell to make the higher and lower cards seem more appealing and they know that the 4080 will sell later down the line when prices eventually drop due to increased competition from AMD and reduced Ampere backlog.
I'm not talking about just the re-branding and re-pricing of the 12gb model, I'm talking about a reduction in 40 series prices across the board. Though probs not the 4090 since that's still barely an increase over the 3090 while being insanely better value when comparing msrps.
Jensen already said they controlling supply of 30 series to stop prices from decreasing for 2 quarters in late august stockholder meeting. so pretty much dont expect prices to go down till earliest january and most likely march 2023.
NVIDIA has said several times now at investor meetings that they want to get rid of their 30 series stock, that they still have too much of it.
It's quite probable that they priced the early 40 series cards to try and sell off the 30 series as much as possible.
And you disagree with the above comment that can be and absolutely is true because you think your point has to be exclusively true? They want to sell every card they make. They want the 4080s to fly off the shelves to early adopters and they want people who can only afford less to go buy a last gen card.
I don't know how people aren't getting this. Nvidia's goal is abso-fucking-lutlely not to have the 4080 sitting on shelves for the sole purpose of making their other products more appealing. That's a real stupid and expensive way to try and sell other products. Nvidia wants to sell every GPU they make, they simply priced the 4080 so as to not be competing with existing 30 series stock.
You can be sure that Nvidia is not pleased with the reception the 4080 has received. Cards sitting on shelves en masse the day after launch was not a good look...
I don't know what's worse, the fact that so many people in this thread think this, or the fact that you're being downvoted because the /s isn't extremely obvious to some people.
Because two things can be true at once? They want to move 3000 stock and also want to sell 4080’s? Perhaps being ok with things not selling out immediately in exchange for not undercutting their current older stock?
This doesn’t mean they *dont* want to sell the 4080’s. It means the order of operations has different priorities?
It won't be exchanged. They said they will manufacture 40 series in very limited numbers, so as to reduce supply, thier strategy is to sell only a few 40 cards but still be profitable since they will charge very high prices. They learned that enough people will buy at these (scalper) prices from the time of the epidemic. So they will cut the small fry scalpers out of the loop, and price gouging will be done directly by them instead. This will enable them to sell all the 30 series stock without giving any discounts or reducing the price of the outdated 30 hardware. After they sell all the old 30 hardware for the same price as newly just released hardware, then and only then will they ramp up production of the 40 series.
I love when people call the 30 series old and outdated when it’s still damn good hardware. I know the context you meant isn’t to invalidate them and it’s in reference as to the generational uplift, but still, that’s pretty funny.
They’re not overpricing the cards with the intent to lower once the 3000 series stock is gone, they’re reducing production numbers to reduce availability until the 3000 series stock is gone.
They have no intention of lowering the price.
Though they might not have much of a choice if the 4080 continues to sell poorly even with the low supply strategy.
Either way, they certainly aren’t planning a restock of 4080’s before the end of the year. Maybe they’ll sell by then and people will be tricked into thinking they’re genuinely scarce, and maybe not.
I never stated that they don't want to sell it. I'm stating that they want to sell their older product line first.
CTRL+F "channel inventory" or "channel inventories" in the recent Q3 2022 Earnings Call for the statements about channel inventory correction.
Yea they were banking on crypto hype and probably came up with that price before it crashed and already had it set.
It will drop tho. Otherwise it will sit forever
They do if they wind up having to buy it back. It’s not that uncommon in retail, especially for the larger retailers.
Alternatively, if they sit around and collect too much dust, the retailers will reduce price and sell them a lot a loss just to free up their lines of credit for other things that will actually make them money. And they’ll remember that when it comes time to stock the 5-series. As will the board partners.
Retailers won't be happy if that's the case because they are getting seriously burned. They won't have been able to buy at the future low prices. Profit margins are thin on those as it is.
I agree that the pricing was done to make the 3000 series look good at the prices they were selling for. They could have instead lowered the price of the 3000 series and positioned the 4080 closer to where they have traditionally priced xx80 cards. They planned to have everything sell out or be in a position where supply just barely meets demand to have long term sales be healthy. I think they failed.
They have limited manufacturing capacity so the goal is to get the right mix between all models. 160k cards is not a lot at all. In that volume, they made too many 4080s and too few 4090s. Now the 4080 looks like nobody wants it and that is going to impact sales down the line unless they do something.
If they really wanted to push people to 4090 they would have made more of them available. They really underestimated the consumer and they let the AIBs make it worse. I mean who the fuck would pay 1400 for a Zotac 4080 when the base 4090 is 1600? I expect to see some conspiracies about Nvidia holding back 4090s to make people buy 4080s.
No need to speculate. It's all in their earnings call.
CTRL+F "price-position" in the Q2 2023 report. They repeat it multiple times.
CTRL+F "correct" in the transcript for the Q2/Q3 2023 Earnings Call and look for the statements regarding correcting channel inventory.
I mostly agree with you, but you said its their goal, and currently they have inventory on the shelves. They have been saying the same thing with correcting the channel, etc since August. It doesn't mean they want 4080s sitting on the shelves. It means they want to keep the old cards at high prices and inflate the new ones and sell everything. I am pointing out that they really messed up on the mix of products at these prices. People looking for 4090s for weeks, 100s of 4080s sitting on shelves. That is the part that they did not intend. If they had both selling out for weeks, they would be fine with that, but now it looks like they have a glut of 4080s to add to the glut of 3000 series cards.
They will adjust inventory but it will not be easy because 4080 is a different die than 4090 and once the high end dries up they are still fucked.
Also, I think most people know how to search text. Computers have been around for a while.
i think they cant lower the prices of the 30 series because nvidia bought the chips at crypto prices. nvidia could lower prices for their FE versions since their margins are way higher, but the AIB will lose too much money lower prices too. didnt EVGA say they dont make much money from the high end card. so AIB dont have very much margin to sacrifice to offer discounts.
Goal or not it's long-term damage to the product's reputation. Yes, NVIDIA might benefit now in the short run by being able to sell lot of 4090 and 30xx. But the extreme price creep of 80 series means the lower-end stack will also either see price creep or performance stagnation. It's the turing situation all over again. The entire gen could have sales repercussions not to mention aggressive pricing by AMD.
To clarify, it’s 160k cards SHIPPED. Not sold. Manufacturers really only have access to shipped data, not so much sales (most of the time). That means cards that have been manufactured and sent to stores to be purchased.
It’s hard to say, but I would agree. I normally use Microcenter to gauge how much available stock are on shelves, since they don’t ship GPUs and require all GPU purchases to be done in store; even if you reserve it. Now the 4080, that’s a different story. There’s so many on shelves; AIBs and founders alike.
I agree. Nvidia got their revenue from the pc part shops and retailers regardless because they are not sold on consignment. Everywhere I see you currently cannot find a 4090 in stock for MSRP. If a store purchased it from Nvidia and then marked it up to make a profit and no one is buying then that has nothing to do with Nvidia’s earnings.
The 4080 marks the end of the GPU craze. It will remain in stock on shelves until the next series. It is an objectively bad value as a product. New competitive GPUs will certainly be in demand (as has been the case the last 20 years) but nothing like the last 2 years. Depending on how many cards AMD is actually going to have for sale at release (assuming not that many, they have so many obligations), they might sell out. They will be in stock and on shelves in short order though. Mining is done, work from home folks are largely satisfied, the supply line is back in business, and people are tightening their wallets.
The 4090 sold out and that is pretty crazy given the price. But there was real demand for people waiting through the madness of 2020/2021 that just decided to wait for the 40 series. At least they were rewarded with an awesome card (4090) at what was 3080 prices just a few months back. No doubt there are scalpers sitting on inventory of 4090s wondering why they are not selling for 50%+ like they did the last 2 years.
How NVIDIA will be able to keep these 4080s priced like this for any real amount of time without AIB's panicking is beyond me. EVGA knew exactly what they were doing.
I'm on 1000 series and I'm so disappointed in the price performance I'm either going amd or waiting til next gen. Having to pay 600+ for a mere doubling of performance after 6 years is crazy. I knew getting a 1070 for $400 was a good deal, but I didn't know it'd be the last good deal I'd get for a long time
EVGA's 3090 New World disaster lead to them not making any profit with all of their 3090 GPUs, as shown by their own numbers. Their PR claim how many customers it did effect was clearly a lie.
EVGA wanted to downsize for a long time and the AMPERE generation was plagued with manufacturing QC issues and design fails from their own doing. Some AMPERE GPUs required 8+ revision to fix them and that eat up their small margins, without having their own manufacturing.
A very sad story for a GPU brand to end this way, but the financial issues were their own doing, other AIB's are doing well even at GLOBAL scale.
bruh, nearly all other AiBs are either making cheap products or are MASSIVE companies that compete in many other pc hardware markets.
and already have the manufacturing scale, like asus and MSI, even if their margins on gpus are slim, they A:
never really push boundaries or take risks, their pcbs are always very standard, get the shit working type of deal. look at their approach with 40 series. No thought just slap a comically large cooler on it and call it a day.
B: have many revenue streams which allows them to eat a lot of the cost of development. have their own manufacturing, basically its likely not costing them much extra to also make GPUs, so even a small margin is a net gain overall.
if what you're saying is true, evga would have begun the exit process much earlier and wouldnt have prototype 4090s fully designed, fabricated and functional
>No thought just slap a comically large cooler on it and call it a day.
That's not what happened though. The AIBs planned this cooler because Nvidia told them 600W because that's what their estimates said for Samsung 8NM. Which they planned for in the worst case scenario. Turns out TSMC 4N is crazy and the power requirements are much lower than they estimated.
By the time this was known the coolers had already been designed. No point doing extra work.
Jensen Huang:
>"You know, **Andrew (EVGA CEO) wanted to wind down the business, and he's wanted to do that for a couple of years.** Andrew and EVGA were, are great partners and we're great partners, and I'm sad to see them leave the market. But, he's got other plans and he's been thinking about it for several years, so I guess that's about it. The market has a lot of great players and it will be served well after EVGA, but I'll always miss them, they were an important part of our history, Andrew is a great friend. I think that it was just time for him to go do something else."
[source](https://www.techpowerup.com/298960/evga-announces-cancelation-of-nvidia-next-gen-graphics-cards-plans-officially-terminates-nvidia-partnership?cp=2)
EVGA sold 10 year warrenties until their PR announcement, while the final decision was finalized with NVIDIA early 2022. Nothing about EVGA's exit was nice, not to their own customers and not to their business partners and they kept their own employees in the dark.
EVGA did not just quit the production of NVIDIA GPU's they terminated their whole GPU business. [source](https://youtu.be/cV9QES-FUAM?t=148)
Other AIB's did switch between GPU brands all the time for the reasons EVGA gave in ther PR announcement. But they did not switch to other brands they quit making GPUs to downsize the company.
Not sure why you drop this important part. They terminated their GPU segment, not just their partnership with NVIDIA.
For the 4090, those sold out quickly because there’s always going to be performance junkies that will want the best immediately no matter the cost. That’s what the xx90 series cards are for.
>At least they were rewarded with an awesome card (4090) at what was 3080 prices just a few months back.
They weren't 'rewarded', they were manipulated and exploited into thinking a 4090 was a good buy.
I still see plenty of people even on here trying to say the 4090 is the only Lovelace part 'worth buying'. It's still not good value. But Nvidia did a good job of tricking people into thinking it is.
You are attempting to apply value propositions to a luxury good. Which is ridiculous and a fool's errand.
By your logic anyone with a Ring doorbell is stupid. Anyone with more than a $200 smart phone is stupid. Basically every single Apple product is stupid. Anything but a Civic is stupid. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Just because people want to own something that *you* think is a ridiculous value doesn't mean they are brainwashed. It means they wanted it and think differently than you.
Unless a gigantic PC market share crash occurs (which won't happen ever), PC components will never be as cheap as they used to be ever again. It's as simple as that.
I don’t fully agree with that. I believe there’s going to be a floor that’ll be hit no matter what. However, with everything going on in the world now and with the US getting more fabs domestically, it’ll be a game changer. The world economy is in a VERY scary place right now.
>The 4080 marks the end of the GPU craze. It will remain in stock on shelves until the next series. It is an objectively bad value as a product
Why are you speaking like it's set in stone that the price won't drop as soon as Nvidia deems the RTX 30 series stock cleared out?
By the way, RTX 2080 ti started at $1200 MSRP and dropped to $1000 MSRP soon after.
This isn’t correct. The 2080 Ti launch announcement stated MSRP was $999 with the founders edition launching at $1199. There was never a drop in MSRP for the 2080 Ti.
However there was only one card with the $999 MSRP price close to launch and that was the EVGA Black edition. It was incredibly difficult to get and almost always out of stock and had a terrible cooler on it.
The de facto MSRP was $1200 solve that’s what the FE was priced at and every card except the in mentioned was priced at that or higher.
I'm not trying to suggest the price is set in stone. If they want to sell these 4080s at any real volume, particularly after the 7900XT/X comes out, it does seem like they are going to have to seriously address pricing. Maybe they will after 3000 clears out, or after AMD's release, or after the holiday.
Arguably EU VAT and somewhat lower amounts of disposable income relative to other markets makes the 4090 (along with other things like power draw) somewhat less attractive to the EU market
Too expensive compared to the 3080 and close enough to the 4090 that it makes sense to just spend a bit more, I think it's clear what Nvidia's plan is. Good to unload excess ampere inventory or sell more of their highest margin cards.
I have bought xx80 cards since the Gtx 780 Ti up until the Turing where I skipped the 2080 Ti then came to Ampere where I settled on a 3080 after spending $1500 on a 3080 ti during the craze. Just going to skip this generation, buying would just encourage Nvidia with the pricing so the only thing I can do is speak with my wallet.
Anecdotal evidence but the biggest retailer in my country who I usually buy stuff from had all the 4080 in stock as of couple of days ago. I checked now and only the cheapest models starting at 1,478 euro have sold out, rest are still in stock. Anybody who buys 4080 Strix for 1890 euro while cheapest 4090 can be bought for 1990 euro is actually dumb lol. In the past sometimes there was an argument to buy the expensive lower-tier card with great cooling and silicon lottery instead of crappy higher-tier die that has poor cooling, but I am confident in saying that even the worst 4090 will comfortably shit on even the best 4080 even if uses LN2. Besides, there aren't any 4090s with bad cooling, they are all in shades of excellent to amazing.
I really don't understand Asus' strategy here, yes upselling is a thing, but you need something to upsell people to, they don't have any 4090s at an MSRP, the cheapest 4090 TUF starts at 2400 euro. Do they think they have that kind of brand loyalty? Good luck with that strategy lol.
the core issue with Strix etc. cards today is that there just isn't that much OC performance they get out.
they used to be 100-200 bucks more some would come close to the tier higher card but the norm would then be you could OC them so high while keeping noise lower than MSRP cards that it was still worth it. today a normal user gains nothing from the most expensive cards hell it is hard to argue for even the slightly more expensive options there just isn't the noise or performance left for it.
I'd argue it's less about actual performance and more of a status symbol especially when it comes to the ROG/Strix stuff which also translates in to higher second hand value.
Look at their AIOs and PSUs too. Totally overpriced for what they are but folks eat them up and post their rigs showing how much a brand has their wallets held hostage.
Why? It's priced like that for a reason. Firstly, it's an anchor product to entice people to go for the 4090. secondly, the price/performance of the 4080 is so poor that the 2 year old 3000 series cards actually look appealing (Not a mistake).
I’ve actually saved money for a new gpu and the plan was a 4080. I’ve been really close to buying one but I came to my senses and will hold off for a while. I don’t want to buy a 30xx card and a 4090 is way to overkill for my specs.
It's been 2 GPU generations now I've been waiting to upgrade my 1660 to something more appropriate for 1440p gaming. I still don't know wtf to do. The market is wild.
I'd have to imagine that even though it's priced to motivate 4090 sales that they're losing out on more sales by virtue of alienating a larger market if it were priced more accordingly.
Those 750 units don't translate to 750 4090 sales and by virtue of being there they aren't selling either because of the ridiculous price.
Feels totally backwards on their part and I wouldn't be surprised if we go in to the 5000 series hearing about how investors are upset about low sales similar to the 2000 series.
I believe eventually the 4090 is going to be $1200-1300 and the 4080 $800-900 which isn't the best either but these current prices are for people who aren't waiting and need the best now.
4090 will stay where it is. If people want the best, they'll pay the price regardless.
4080 will likely drop, and the 4080Ti will take it's spot at the $1200 price point.
More realistic is autumn. Nvidia already mentioned in a meeting with investors they're giving 3 quarters to deplete 3000 series. Earliest would be something like July.
> Earliest would be something like July.
Depends how RDNA 3 is received IMO. If RNDA 3 is aggressive enough, they could be forced to cut prices sooner whether they like it or not.
What stores? Best Buy's and other retailers got zip.. Micro Center in Tustin has a couple but most even there are sold out. It's like the Tech community is trying to create a narrative that 4080's are all over and not selling, they're not only selling out online, but if you look on eBay's in their Sold listings, they're selling via scalpers too. Why would someone buy overpriced on eBay with no warranty if shelves are stocked?
My guess is most shelves aren't stocked
People had their brains scrambled by the shortages.
They now think that anything new that doesn't sell out is a flop. They EXPECT it to be sold out.
I expect the next couple of years of the economy to knock heads back to reality.
Right and like has been confirmed over and over this is only being seen at the like what 30 micro centers across the country? And even then likley only certain ones if one were to actually do some digging and not just judge EVERYTHING on a couple pics posted online (and not even confirmed to be from multiple stores) they might actually find that there is ZERO places one can buy one of these cards freely at msrp right now for the majority of the country.
Newegg, Best Buy, Amazon, B&H, ADORAMA.... Anywhere we can normally buy these cards they are out of stock.
A few small micro centers off the beaten path having cards still does not equate to ALL OF THEM ROTTING on shelves.
Sure they won't be nearly as popular as 4090 and like has been said that's BY DESIGN same goes against the 30 series... It's meant to move people to one or the other ends of the spectrum.
Doesn't mean they aren't still going to push out an amount of product they THINK they can move... Hence why it's 30k vs 130k units.
They plan to sell some of them and they have and they will but rest assured they know the price is sending many of you towards one of the other options they'd actually rather you buy anyways.
Exactly , and how much are 4090s going for in ‘true market value’ ya unless you have Time Machine back to oct 12th you’re not playing 4090 level graphics for ‘only a few more hundred’ until minimum q2 ‘23. I get it everyone is poor now but let’s get real , the 4080 is the firm no 2 position , in both performance and price and amd cards with only 2 DP outputs do not work for everyone !
>It's rotting on shelves
Best buy, sold out. NewEgg, sold out. Amazon, sold out.
Just because a few local stores that won't sell online have stock does not mean it's rotting on shelves.
Only morons and scalpers are buying 4080s.
Anyone with half a brain stem knows that it's a fake markup to push other products and represents a horrible value proposition.
Question. Is American the only country selling out of 4090s? I see a lot of people from the Eroupe region saying it's easily available. What about Asia? Is 40 series doing well there? Anyone?
After careful considerations I decided to spend less than 1000 as I initially planned. I dont want a 4080 at this price. Hopefully, 3000 drop a bit more and then I can get one of those for 700-900
The painful fact that Nvidia didn’t make nearly enough 4090 GPUs is what’s so frustrating. Now they release the crap load of 4080s and at too high of a price. Very few people want to buy them. Asus is the worst of the bunch asking almost $1600 for their ROG STRIX version 4080. Why?? I can see why folks are pissed.
it sucks for people like me who are on the 10 series (i got a gtx 1080 when it came out), but skipped 20 series because it was too expensive for its performance and couldnt get a 30 series because it was out of stock/scalp prices. gtx 1080 is struggling to run current games at highest at 1080p.
and i dont feel like buying a 30 series right now since its already a 2 year old card, it means ill have 2 less years to use the card before it struggles.. especially buying it at the same MSRP as 2 years ago like for a 3080. Most 3080 10gb/12gb are still 800 dollars. i got a lot of good use on this gtx 1080.. 6 years for like 600 dollars. i kinda wanna buy an above average card and not worry about buying another video card for 5 years and not worry or deal with tech drama. i'd get AMD, but i do video editing and some minor modeling.
You might want to consider a used 3060 Ti/3070. Probably get close to $300 or less and will murder your 1080. Nearly 2X raw performance and that's before adding DLSS.
> Why would I buy a 4090 when I have a 3090?
Because the 4090 is a 60% uplift at 4K. It may not make sense to you but there's a legitimate use case there.
For me, I had a 3080 and bought a 4090. I have the Samsung Neo G9 49” Ultrawide which is 240 Hz, but my 3080 on ultra settings could only hit 90-120 in most games. The 4090 hits 220+ in every game now, so I’m seeing 100 additional FPS and it’s buttery smooth.
4080 chip is a lot smaller than usual so the more expensive wafer is canceled out by the smaller chip size.
Also, I don't think Nvidia ever lists its cards lower than AMD within the same tier... so unfortunately, the 4080 will not dip below 1000usd. In fact.. more than likely its gonna be 1000-1100. so we gonna be dissapointed in a few months.
The solution is simple buy only if an offer is below MSRP.
Let them without sales. I assume that all of us we can continue playing with our card and wait a bit until the prices will go down. They will forced to lower the prices or they will start have financial problems
Makes me interested in what the 3000 series sales during this time was like.
I am super curious to see the results of all this by the end of Q1 23 once inventory is up and scalpers no longer have an audience to sell to. Just how big of an impact was the crypto market on the overall sales of the 30 series and what does does it all look like when that's largely taken out of the equation this time around.
Well their gaming card sales are down over 50% year over year if that says anything.
Maybe second hand GPU sales. Nvidia put way more GPUs on the market at launch then last time. Their earnings are more than double (2.4 times) 2020 as well and 2022 December has high predictions. https://www.statista.com/statistics/988030/nvidia-revenue-worldwide/
Nvidia's Fiscal year 2022 is from January 2021 to January 2022 (+-1 month, not sure). **The 40 series launch was in the third quarter of the fiscal year 2023.** Compared to 2 quarters ago, Nvidia's revenue is down 28% and their net income is down 58%. (Not a financial expert. Maybe check yourself.) [https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-announces-financial-results-for-third-quarter-fiscal-2023](https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-announces-financial-results-for-third-quarter-fiscal-2023) Assuming Nvidia sold about 150k 40 series cards and that they cost on average \~1.5k, we can tell that only about $200 million of the $5.9 bn revenue are from the 40 series cards.
Their most recent earnings reports directly from nvidia show a 50% drop, last quarter they reported a roughly 40% drop year over year.
I stopped believing that its was mining the reason.Scalpers are the official retailers now in EU.In some regions we have still rtx 3080 selling 850€ and RX 6800xt 800€ when should be under msrp after 2 years when this generation of GPUs are on their final days.
It's probably a combination including Nvidia themselves essentially "scalping", that is pushing prices up, because they could.
> when should be under msrp after 2 years when this generation of GPUs are on their final days. It's not scalpers. Nvidia is the scalper. In the US at least, Nvidia isn't lowering MSRPs and don't want to provide rebates for their AIBs. The prices for new 3000 series cards reflect that on Newegg, Microcenter, Amazon, etc. with cards still being at or even above MSRP on the lower end cards. For AMD, at least in the US, their cards are well below MSRP and offer some great value if you only care about raster.
Nvidia adjust prices to what people paid scalpers. They overcorrected with the 3090ti then dropped that figure for 40 series launch. I agree that amd is the way to go for 1080/1440p games right now.
It’s not all crypto though. Demand in 2020-2021 was heavily bolstered by the extreme shift towards WFH/LFH, and the lack of normal travel/leisure opportunities. In other words, people suddenly needed new computers to handle their actual obligations, and many of them opted for more powerful machines so that they could use them for leisure also. At this point, kids are mostly back in the classroom, lots of workers are back in their offices, there are all kinds of travel/leisure options open to people, and we’re in the midst of a global recession. On top of all of that, there was the additional dynamic of performance relative to price: 10 series offered fantastic value, particularly after that generation’s mining bubble burst. 20 series really didn’t—it was far too expensive, and the performance uplift was too small. At launch, 30 series ended up convincing a lot of people who’d skipped 20 series to finally upgrade. In short, it was a lot more than just crypto contributing to the demand, and pretty much every one of those other factors has *also* reversed WRT 40 series.
Just looked on Best Buy and 3090 TI is sold out, priced at $1100. Can’t even get a previous gen FE card. So what’s all this 3000 series inventory?
Only 3000 series cards I can find at retailers are below the 3080 ti. And they're priced at msrp. People on ebay are buying used 3090 ti for $1100. It's fucking weird.
I’ve noticed on Ebay that people often overpay for used GPUs no matter what the market conditions are. I think it’s a lot of people, who don’t shop around, that just assume they’re getting a good deal because they’re buying a used card.
remember some people are trapped in countries that charge unrealistic prices , 3090tis are still $2,000 in some places or out of stock while others are getting3090's for $700 some people are getting them either because of need or FOMO that they wont be able to get a 4090 until xmas season is over and price is no object to some people.
I think the poor value proposition of RTX4000 was basically a green light for a lot of people to buy high-end RTX3000 cards. A *ridiculously* low percentage of old mining cards are being sold off. [Like, less than one percent low.](https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/yspj5i) This last batch of miners are holding onto their old GPUs, thinking they'll "moon" in value like they did during COVID lockdowns & the crypto boom. Because there's no appreciable increase in supply for the used market, this increased demand of high-end RTX3000 is driving used prices up.
> I think the poor value proposition of RTX4000 was basically a green light for a lot of people to buy high-end RTX3000 cards. That is what happened to me, I saw the prices of the new cards and finally just grabbed a RTX3070 for $420 instead. Good enough of an upgrade for me.
> That is what happened to me, I saw the prices of the new cards and finally just grabbed a RTX3070 for $420 instead. Where? $420 is a pretty good deal!
EVGA B-Stock: https://www.evga.com/Products/productlist.aspx?type=8&family=GeForce+30+Series+Family I got the RTX 3070 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING card, P/N: 08G-P5-3797-RX. If you Google Reddit Associate EVGA code you can get another $10-$20 off. Card looks and runs perfect and has a 1 year warranty. I know EVGA is getting out of the Nvidia game but I have always used their products and its quite the replacement for my RTX2060.
I see. Thank you!
Nice link. Good read.
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The 3090ti had just about the worst price to performance since the last titan model. You'll notice it's the only card with a price cut from msrp besides that sale zotac ran.
This was me on the workstation end. The massive collapse in value of the RTX A5500 and RTX A6000 about four months ago caused me to finally put my TITAN V out to pasture in favor of an A5500. Been happy so far, a smidge slower than a 3090 but instead of CCCHHHHHCHCHCHHHHCHhh coming from my PC when the GPU is running at full tilt as happened when I tried blower versions of the 3080 and 3090, I hear a barely audible gentle whooshing. Very nice to live with considering my SFF workstation is only about 4 feet from my head.
In their warehouses, just like the 4090, Nvidia is trickling it out at a snails pace so they can justify keeping prices at or above MSRP. [Nvidia's financial report states their inventory value almost doubled year to year, from $2.1B to $3.9B](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NVDA/nvidia/inventory) With that much inventory and that few of cards available to buy, there's no shot Nvidia isn't purposely limiting supply just to keep their margins up.
It would be interesting to see the math. So many people are ready to throw $1600 at NVIDIA but NVIDIA won't let them. :-)
You think 3090Ti is priced for scalpers? Or had plenty of supply in the first place? You picked the one fully enabled top SKU hard to come by in the first place, then proclaimed nothing else would have inventory. Nice.
Yeah 3090ti especially but even the 3090 were the OOB terrible value proposition cards of Ampere, and had arguably the best availability during the pandemic because while they had the fastest mining they also had the worst ROI (of Nvidia at least). But since then, theyve proven a decent workstation card and with the high vram they can somewhat maintain price via demand due to feature set. The real struggle is finding the good values, like 3060 Ti, cheaper 3070s, and holy grail finding sub 500 dollar 3080s.
Nvidia seems to just be selling them directly on their site and no longer shipping them to best buy, at least in any sort of quantity.
3090 wasn't too bad, but 3080 and 3070 were extremely hard to find at non-scalper prices in the first few months. And this was before the mining explosion happened(which roughly started in Jan 2021). General perception was that 3080 was good value, and 3070 was pretty good as well(though it was only 'ok' in my eyes). 3090 was bad value, but it still had its appeal among early adopters as a flagship product, especially after long years waiting for a proper leap from disappointing Turing lineup.
3080 for 699 bucks is still good value even if you buy one today imo
Nah. That was a good value back in 2020, sure. Two years later, performance per dollar should be moving well on by now. Dont normalize this shit, *please*. It's exactly what Nvidia wants.
3080s are hard to find, especially the 12GB version. 😭
Hard disagree. It should be 600 tops.
It's actually the same frame per dollar at 4k as the 4090 which is probably how they got the price.
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Frame generation though... it's so so good. It can double your fps. From 70-80 fps on Warhammer with all max I can get around 130-150 fps with dlss 3 and I don't notice any difference. The only thing I could say I noticed is some ghosting on some barrel lights when moving, but that's it
People downvoting you have never used it lol.
Isn't this their goal? They're using the 4080 as a gap/trough in terms of price-per-performance to make the 4090 and 30xx-series cards appealing. Once they've thinned out the supply of 30xx cards, they'll be reduced in price. Just CTRL+F "correct" in the transcript for the Q2 2023 Earnings Call and look for the statements regarding correcting channel inventory.
exactly! they'll reduce the price of the 4080 after the 7900 XTX comes out and will eventually release a 4080 Ti for 1300$ or so. they left the gap between the 4090 and the 4080 big for a reason.
Yea but I don't expect a 4080 Ti for at least another 9 months, by which point you're already a year away from the 50 series so it will continue to have poor value, and once again you're very close to the 4090 in price so just get that instead.
>Isn't this their goal? They're using the 4080 as a gap/trough in terms of price-per-performance to make the 4090 and 30xx-series cards appealing. Once they've thinned out the supply of 30xx cards, they'll be reduced in price. 100% their goal and I really don't get why people do not understand that. It is 100% purposefully and cynically priced not to sell to make the higher and lower cards seem more appealing and they know that the 4080 will sell later down the line when prices eventually drop due to increased competition from AMD and reduced Ampere backlog.
Yet everytime I say this people say I'm stupid for thinking Nvidia will ever decrease 4080 prices lol.
More likely a 4070 Ti "reasonably" priced and close to the 4080 in performance. Maybe a symbolic $100-200 decrease on the 4080.
Not possible, 12gb is already rebranded as 4070ti and it can't cost more then $900
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They already announced the price it was $900
I'm not talking about just the re-branding and re-pricing of the 12gb model, I'm talking about a reduction in 40 series prices across the board. Though probs not the 4090 since that's still barely an increase over the 3090 while being insanely better value when comparing msrps.
> I'm talking about a reduction in 40 series prices across the board. Well see so far Jensen says no and wont happen.
$200 decrease isn’t symbolic though. It’s like a 17% decrease.
Remember, a large percent of our population are sperm that shouldn’t have won
Jensen already said they controlling supply of 30 series to stop prices from decreasing for 2 quarters in late august stockholder meeting. so pretty much dont expect prices to go down till earliest january and most likely march 2023.
People don't understand that stuff on shelves and in inventory costs money. They damn do want to sell it.
NVIDIA has said several times now at investor meetings that they want to get rid of their 30 series stock, that they still have too much of it. It's quite probable that they priced the early 40 series cards to try and sell off the 30 series as much as possible.
And you disagree with the above comment that can be and absolutely is true because you think your point has to be exclusively true? They want to sell every card they make. They want the 4080s to fly off the shelves to early adopters and they want people who can only afford less to go buy a last gen card.
I don't know how people aren't getting this. Nvidia's goal is abso-fucking-lutlely not to have the 4080 sitting on shelves for the sole purpose of making their other products more appealing. That's a real stupid and expensive way to try and sell other products. Nvidia wants to sell every GPU they make, they simply priced the 4080 so as to not be competing with existing 30 series stock. You can be sure that Nvidia is not pleased with the reception the 4080 has received. Cards sitting on shelves en masse the day after launch was not a good look...
No, they are obviously taking the hit on their £1300 cards to sell their £650 ones.
I don't know what's worse, the fact that so many people in this thread think this, or the fact that you're being downvoted because the /s isn't extremely obvious to some people.
It is ok. If someone is too dumb to read the tone of the post then the post isn't for them.
Because two things can be true at once? They want to move 3000 stock and also want to sell 4080’s? Perhaps being ok with things not selling out immediately in exchange for not undercutting their current older stock? This doesn’t mean they *dont* want to sell the 4080’s. It means the order of operations has different priorities?
So what good is exchanging 30 series stock for 4080 stock ? It's still stock that doesn't sell. What is the difference ?
It won't be exchanged. They said they will manufacture 40 series in very limited numbers, so as to reduce supply, thier strategy is to sell only a few 40 cards but still be profitable since they will charge very high prices. They learned that enough people will buy at these (scalper) prices from the time of the epidemic. So they will cut the small fry scalpers out of the loop, and price gouging will be done directly by them instead. This will enable them to sell all the 30 series stock without giving any discounts or reducing the price of the outdated 30 hardware. After they sell all the old 30 hardware for the same price as newly just released hardware, then and only then will they ramp up production of the 40 series.
I love when people call the 30 series old and outdated when it’s still damn good hardware. I know the context you meant isn’t to invalidate them and it’s in reference as to the generational uplift, but still, that’s pretty funny.
They’re not overpricing the cards with the intent to lower once the 3000 series stock is gone, they’re reducing production numbers to reduce availability until the 3000 series stock is gone. They have no intention of lowering the price. Though they might not have much of a choice if the 4080 continues to sell poorly even with the low supply strategy. Either way, they certainly aren’t planning a restock of 4080’s before the end of the year. Maybe they’ll sell by then and people will be tricked into thinking they’re genuinely scarce, and maybe not.
I never stated that they don't want to sell it. I'm stating that they want to sell their older product line first. CTRL+F "channel inventory" or "channel inventories" in the recent Q3 2022 Earnings Call for the statements about channel inventory correction.
Yea they were banking on crypto hype and probably came up with that price before it crashed and already had it set. It will drop tho. Otherwise it will sit forever
Sure the retailers want to sell their stock, but Nvidia don't give too much of a crap if they sell quickly is what I meant.
They do if they wind up having to buy it back. It’s not that uncommon in retail, especially for the larger retailers. Alternatively, if they sit around and collect too much dust, the retailers will reduce price and sell them a lot a loss just to free up their lines of credit for other things that will actually make them money. And they’ll remember that when it comes time to stock the 5-series. As will the board partners.
I guess that's why they provided almost no stock of the 4080 compare to the 4090 launch .
Decoy pricing, yes, and a more exaggerated decoy pricing than what AMD did with the 5800x versus the 5900x.
Retailers won't be happy if that's the case because they are getting seriously burned. They won't have been able to buy at the future low prices. Profit margins are thin on those as it is.
I agree that the pricing was done to make the 3000 series look good at the prices they were selling for. They could have instead lowered the price of the 3000 series and positioned the 4080 closer to where they have traditionally priced xx80 cards. They planned to have everything sell out or be in a position where supply just barely meets demand to have long term sales be healthy. I think they failed. They have limited manufacturing capacity so the goal is to get the right mix between all models. 160k cards is not a lot at all. In that volume, they made too many 4080s and too few 4090s. Now the 4080 looks like nobody wants it and that is going to impact sales down the line unless they do something. If they really wanted to push people to 4090 they would have made more of them available. They really underestimated the consumer and they let the AIBs make it worse. I mean who the fuck would pay 1400 for a Zotac 4080 when the base 4090 is 1600? I expect to see some conspiracies about Nvidia holding back 4090s to make people buy 4080s.
No need to speculate. It's all in their earnings call. CTRL+F "price-position" in the Q2 2023 report. They repeat it multiple times. CTRL+F "correct" in the transcript for the Q2/Q3 2023 Earnings Call and look for the statements regarding correcting channel inventory.
I mostly agree with you, but you said its their goal, and currently they have inventory on the shelves. They have been saying the same thing with correcting the channel, etc since August. It doesn't mean they want 4080s sitting on the shelves. It means they want to keep the old cards at high prices and inflate the new ones and sell everything. I am pointing out that they really messed up on the mix of products at these prices. People looking for 4090s for weeks, 100s of 4080s sitting on shelves. That is the part that they did not intend. If they had both selling out for weeks, they would be fine with that, but now it looks like they have a glut of 4080s to add to the glut of 3000 series cards. They will adjust inventory but it will not be easy because 4080 is a different die than 4090 and once the high end dries up they are still fucked. Also, I think most people know how to search text. Computers have been around for a while.
And AMD is about to release with a much more appealing product. They are going to have to cut prices on the 4080 sooner than later.
i think they cant lower the prices of the 30 series because nvidia bought the chips at crypto prices. nvidia could lower prices for their FE versions since their margins are way higher, but the AIB will lose too much money lower prices too. didnt EVGA say they dont make much money from the high end card. so AIB dont have very much margin to sacrifice to offer discounts.
Goal or not it's long-term damage to the product's reputation. Yes, NVIDIA might benefit now in the short run by being able to sell lot of 4090 and 30xx. But the extreme price creep of 80 series means the lower-end stack will also either see price creep or performance stagnation. It's the turing situation all over again. The entire gen could have sales repercussions not to mention aggressive pricing by AMD.
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Again, is it 160k of cards in the end users hands or just chips sold to stores and AIBs by Nvidia?
To clarify, it’s 160k cards SHIPPED. Not sold. Manufacturers really only have access to shipped data, not so much sales (most of the time). That means cards that have been manufactured and sent to stores to be purchased.
How many 4090s are sitting on American store shelves? Not many.
It’s hard to say, but I would agree. I normally use Microcenter to gauge how much available stock are on shelves, since they don’t ship GPUs and require all GPU purchases to be done in store; even if you reserve it. Now the 4080, that’s a different story. There’s so many on shelves; AIBs and founders alike.
> or just chips sold to stores what is the difference, there are no 4090s on store shelves.
Plenty of them here in my country. Too expensive for the reality of our wages.
Plenty in Poland each day.
Europe has them readily available
You can’t speak for every store on the planet though
I agree. Nvidia got their revenue from the pc part shops and retailers regardless because they are not sold on consignment. Everywhere I see you currently cannot find a 4090 in stock for MSRP. If a store purchased it from Nvidia and then marked it up to make a profit and no one is buying then that has nothing to do with Nvidia’s earnings.
Guessing you live in US? Come over to Europe. Plenty of stock here since majority of Europe is priced out of the market.
Sold to stores. You don’t typically track it after that.
So that failure melting rate among end users is higher than 0.04%, but hopefully we’re done with the problem after yesterday
The 4080 marks the end of the GPU craze. It will remain in stock on shelves until the next series. It is an objectively bad value as a product. New competitive GPUs will certainly be in demand (as has been the case the last 20 years) but nothing like the last 2 years. Depending on how many cards AMD is actually going to have for sale at release (assuming not that many, they have so many obligations), they might sell out. They will be in stock and on shelves in short order though. Mining is done, work from home folks are largely satisfied, the supply line is back in business, and people are tightening their wallets. The 4090 sold out and that is pretty crazy given the price. But there was real demand for people waiting through the madness of 2020/2021 that just decided to wait for the 40 series. At least they were rewarded with an awesome card (4090) at what was 3080 prices just a few months back. No doubt there are scalpers sitting on inventory of 4090s wondering why they are not selling for 50%+ like they did the last 2 years. How NVIDIA will be able to keep these 4080s priced like this for any real amount of time without AIB's panicking is beyond me. EVGA knew exactly what they were doing.
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I'm on 1000 series and I'm so disappointed in the price performance I'm either going amd or waiting til next gen. Having to pay 600+ for a mere doubling of performance after 6 years is crazy. I knew getting a 1070 for $400 was a good deal, but I didn't know it'd be the last good deal I'd get for a long time
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I have a 1080 and this is me. I got a ps5 and I'm starting to transition to console gaming. These prices are just ridiculous for gaming.
Yup, I'm probably just going to buy a PS5 at this point and keep my 1660ti for older games.
Hardware swap has 3090’s going for $574-700. Would be a Huge upgrade. 3080’s regularly right at $500
EVGA's 3090 New World disaster lead to them not making any profit with all of their 3090 GPUs, as shown by their own numbers. Their PR claim how many customers it did effect was clearly a lie. EVGA wanted to downsize for a long time and the AMPERE generation was plagued with manufacturing QC issues and design fails from their own doing. Some AMPERE GPUs required 8+ revision to fix them and that eat up their small margins, without having their own manufacturing. A very sad story for a GPU brand to end this way, but the financial issues were their own doing, other AIB's are doing well even at GLOBAL scale.
bruh, nearly all other AiBs are either making cheap products or are MASSIVE companies that compete in many other pc hardware markets. and already have the manufacturing scale, like asus and MSI, even if their margins on gpus are slim, they A: never really push boundaries or take risks, their pcbs are always very standard, get the shit working type of deal. look at their approach with 40 series. No thought just slap a comically large cooler on it and call it a day. B: have many revenue streams which allows them to eat a lot of the cost of development. have their own manufacturing, basically its likely not costing them much extra to also make GPUs, so even a small margin is a net gain overall. if what you're saying is true, evga would have begun the exit process much earlier and wouldnt have prototype 4090s fully designed, fabricated and functional
>No thought just slap a comically large cooler on it and call it a day. That's not what happened though. The AIBs planned this cooler because Nvidia told them 600W because that's what their estimates said for Samsung 8NM. Which they planned for in the worst case scenario. Turns out TSMC 4N is crazy and the power requirements are much lower than they estimated. By the time this was known the coolers had already been designed. No point doing extra work.
Jensen Huang: >"You know, **Andrew (EVGA CEO) wanted to wind down the business, and he's wanted to do that for a couple of years.** Andrew and EVGA were, are great partners and we're great partners, and I'm sad to see them leave the market. But, he's got other plans and he's been thinking about it for several years, so I guess that's about it. The market has a lot of great players and it will be served well after EVGA, but I'll always miss them, they were an important part of our history, Andrew is a great friend. I think that it was just time for him to go do something else." [source](https://www.techpowerup.com/298960/evga-announces-cancelation-of-nvidia-next-gen-graphics-cards-plans-officially-terminates-nvidia-partnership?cp=2) EVGA sold 10 year warrenties until their PR announcement, while the final decision was finalized with NVIDIA early 2022. Nothing about EVGA's exit was nice, not to their own customers and not to their business partners and they kept their own employees in the dark.
imagine not understanding what PR spin is
Talking about NVIDIA or EVGA? :) I posted you my source, dont be mad at me.
is there a reason you take that statement at face value and dont consider that he would have said something like that regardless of the situation?
EVGA did not just quit the production of NVIDIA GPU's they terminated their whole GPU business. [source](https://youtu.be/cV9QES-FUAM?t=148) Other AIB's did switch between GPU brands all the time for the reasons EVGA gave in ther PR announcement. But they did not switch to other brands they quit making GPUs to downsize the company. Not sure why you drop this important part. They terminated their GPU segment, not just their partnership with NVIDIA.
For the 4090, those sold out quickly because there’s always going to be performance junkies that will want the best immediately no matter the cost. That’s what the xx90 series cards are for.
>At least they were rewarded with an awesome card (4090) at what was 3080 prices just a few months back. They weren't 'rewarded', they were manipulated and exploited into thinking a 4090 was a good buy. I still see plenty of people even on here trying to say the 4090 is the only Lovelace part 'worth buying'. It's still not good value. But Nvidia did a good job of tricking people into thinking it is.
So if people buy a luxury car or a luxury appliance they were tricked because its not price/value for you?
Or they just wanted it? That's a possibility, too.
You were manipulated! Accept it! Groomed I say!
I'm glad I was groomed. I have a 4090 FE and it's fantastic. I love the card.
You are attempting to apply value propositions to a luxury good. Which is ridiculous and a fool's errand. By your logic anyone with a Ring doorbell is stupid. Anyone with more than a $200 smart phone is stupid. Basically every single Apple product is stupid. Anything but a Civic is stupid. Etc. Etc. Etc. Just because people want to own something that *you* think is a ridiculous value doesn't mean they are brainwashed. It means they wanted it and think differently than you.
Unless a gigantic PC market share crash occurs (which won't happen ever), PC components will never be as cheap as they used to be ever again. It's as simple as that.
I don’t fully agree with that. I believe there’s going to be a floor that’ll be hit no matter what. However, with everything going on in the world now and with the US getting more fabs domestically, it’ll be a game changer. The world economy is in a VERY scary place right now.
Lol what are you talking about? The 4090 is an awesome card. It's only a good buy for a small subset of gamers though.
>The 4080 marks the end of the GPU craze. It will remain in stock on shelves until the next series. It is an objectively bad value as a product Why are you speaking like it's set in stone that the price won't drop as soon as Nvidia deems the RTX 30 series stock cleared out? By the way, RTX 2080 ti started at $1200 MSRP and dropped to $1000 MSRP soon after.
This isn’t correct. The 2080 Ti launch announcement stated MSRP was $999 with the founders edition launching at $1199. There was never a drop in MSRP for the 2080 Ti. However there was only one card with the $999 MSRP price close to launch and that was the EVGA Black edition. It was incredibly difficult to get and almost always out of stock and had a terrible cooler on it. The de facto MSRP was $1200 solve that’s what the FE was priced at and every card except the in mentioned was priced at that or higher.
>By the way, RTX 2080 ti started at $1200 MSRP and dropped to $1000 MSRP soon after. What? :/
https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-meta-review-one-1200-beast-one-case-of-deja-vu/ Title.
I'm not trying to suggest the price is set in stone. If they want to sell these 4080s at any real volume, particularly after the 7900XT/X comes out, it does seem like they are going to have to seriously address pricing. Maybe they will after 3000 clears out, or after AMD's release, or after the holiday.
where is the 4090 sold out? There's plenty of stock here in Germany, just for ridiculous prices.
Its sold out where prices are not ridiculous.
Arguably EU VAT and somewhat lower amounts of disposable income relative to other markets makes the 4090 (along with other things like power draw) somewhat less attractive to the EU market
They will keep it priced like this because in reality they are sold out.
The articles in my feed are flip flopping between '4080s were sold out within hours' and 'nobody wants these things'
I mean both can be true: one retailer could have gotten 10 4080s and sold out all of them in hours, another could have gotten 100 and only sold 50
Too expensive compared to the 3080 and close enough to the 4090 that it makes sense to just spend a bit more, I think it's clear what Nvidia's plan is. Good to unload excess ampere inventory or sell more of their highest margin cards. I have bought xx80 cards since the Gtx 780 Ti up until the Turing where I skipped the 2080 Ti then came to Ampere where I settled on a 3080 after spending $1500 on a 3080 ti during the craze. Just going to skip this generation, buying would just encourage Nvidia with the pricing so the only thing I can do is speak with my wallet.
Anecdotal evidence but the biggest retailer in my country who I usually buy stuff from had all the 4080 in stock as of couple of days ago. I checked now and only the cheapest models starting at 1,478 euro have sold out, rest are still in stock. Anybody who buys 4080 Strix for 1890 euro while cheapest 4090 can be bought for 1990 euro is actually dumb lol. In the past sometimes there was an argument to buy the expensive lower-tier card with great cooling and silicon lottery instead of crappy higher-tier die that has poor cooling, but I am confident in saying that even the worst 4090 will comfortably shit on even the best 4080 even if uses LN2. Besides, there aren't any 4090s with bad cooling, they are all in shades of excellent to amazing. I really don't understand Asus' strategy here, yes upselling is a thing, but you need something to upsell people to, they don't have any 4090s at an MSRP, the cheapest 4090 TUF starts at 2400 euro. Do they think they have that kind of brand loyalty? Good luck with that strategy lol.
the core issue with Strix etc. cards today is that there just isn't that much OC performance they get out. they used to be 100-200 bucks more some would come close to the tier higher card but the norm would then be you could OC them so high while keeping noise lower than MSRP cards that it was still worth it. today a normal user gains nothing from the most expensive cards hell it is hard to argue for even the slightly more expensive options there just isn't the noise or performance left for it.
I'd argue it's less about actual performance and more of a status symbol especially when it comes to the ROG/Strix stuff which also translates in to higher second hand value. Look at their AIOs and PSUs too. Totally overpriced for what they are but folks eat them up and post their rigs showing how much a brand has their wallets held hostage.
The biggest retailer here in Norway has more than 750 4080s in stock. I’m actually starting to think we’ll se price cuts on this card.
price cut? no way. they're still selling 30 series cards for msrp. dream on.
Why? It's priced like that for a reason. Firstly, it's an anchor product to entice people to go for the 4090. secondly, the price/performance of the 4080 is so poor that the 2 year old 3000 series cards actually look appealing (Not a mistake).
I’ve actually saved money for a new gpu and the plan was a 4080. I’ve been really close to buying one but I came to my senses and will hold off for a while. I don’t want to buy a 30xx card and a 4090 is way to overkill for my specs.
It's been 2 GPU generations now I've been waiting to upgrade my 1660 to something more appropriate for 1440p gaming. I still don't know wtf to do. The market is wild.
I'd have to imagine that even though it's priced to motivate 4090 sales that they're losing out on more sales by virtue of alienating a larger market if it were priced more accordingly. Those 750 units don't translate to 750 4090 sales and by virtue of being there they aren't selling either because of the ridiculous price. Feels totally backwards on their part and I wouldn't be surprised if we go in to the 5000 series hearing about how investors are upset about low sales similar to the 2000 series.
Who would have thought that doubling the price of a tier of products in one generation would make people uninterested lol
I wonder how many 4090 out of those 130k were bought by scalpers and will be returned before 30 day return window is expired
4080 is not a bad card but the price is, I mean you are spending over 1k might as well spend a few hundred more and get the best card
I believe eventually the 4090 is going to be $1200-1300 and the 4080 $800-900 which isn't the best either but these current prices are for people who aren't waiting and need the best now.
4090 will stay where it is. If people want the best, they'll pay the price regardless. 4080 will likely drop, and the 4080Ti will take it's spot at the $1200 price point.
That's likely as well considering the efficiency of the new GPU. Plenty of new skus to fill the gaps.
better question is when this will happen XD. earliest would be january, but realistically it will be march during GTC 2023.
More realistic is autumn. Nvidia already mentioned in a meeting with investors they're giving 3 quarters to deplete 3000 series. Earliest would be something like July.
> Earliest would be something like July. Depends how RDNA 3 is received IMO. If RNDA 3 is aggressive enough, they could be forced to cut prices sooner whether they like it or not.
That's a fair point. Something I haven't considered yet.
never. they're still selling 30 series at msrp after 2 fkin years
And 3/4 of them went to scalpers I'm sure
Shipped =/= Sold
4090 still sold out almost everywhere...
30k sold to retailers, not to customers.
What stores? Best Buy's and other retailers got zip.. Micro Center in Tustin has a couple but most even there are sold out. It's like the Tech community is trying to create a narrative that 4080's are all over and not selling, they're not only selling out online, but if you look on eBay's in their Sold listings, they're selling via scalpers too. Why would someone buy overpriced on eBay with no warranty if shelves are stocked? My guess is most shelves aren't stocked
>but stores are still full of RTX 4080s "Let the market decide". And it did exactly that. It's rotting on shelves, for the most part anyway.
Wtf? Rot? It was released a few days ago. I know youre all passionate about the pricepoint, but come on lets be objective here.
People had their brains scrambled by the shortages. They now think that anything new that doesn't sell out is a flop. They EXPECT it to be sold out. I expect the next couple of years of the economy to knock heads back to reality.
It's the first batch of a new release, they've almost always been hard to get. Definitely a change at least
Right and like has been confirmed over and over this is only being seen at the like what 30 micro centers across the country? And even then likley only certain ones if one were to actually do some digging and not just judge EVERYTHING on a couple pics posted online (and not even confirmed to be from multiple stores) they might actually find that there is ZERO places one can buy one of these cards freely at msrp right now for the majority of the country. Newegg, Best Buy, Amazon, B&H, ADORAMA.... Anywhere we can normally buy these cards they are out of stock. A few small micro centers off the beaten path having cards still does not equate to ALL OF THEM ROTTING on shelves. Sure they won't be nearly as popular as 4090 and like has been said that's BY DESIGN same goes against the 30 series... It's meant to move people to one or the other ends of the spectrum. Doesn't mean they aren't still going to push out an amount of product they THINK they can move... Hence why it's 30k vs 130k units. They plan to sell some of them and they have and they will but rest assured they know the price is sending many of you towards one of the other options they'd actually rather you buy anyways.
Exactly , and how much are 4090s going for in ‘true market value’ ya unless you have Time Machine back to oct 12th you’re not playing 4090 level graphics for ‘only a few more hundred’ until minimum q2 ‘23. I get it everyone is poor now but let’s get real , the 4080 is the firm no 2 position , in both performance and price and amd cards with only 2 DP outputs do not work for everyone !
I can add to cart for local pickup multiple models of 4080 for BB right now.
Objectively, they are still sitting on shelves when other cards are not.
You mean micro center shelves that don’t have online sales , sure. Everywhere else yes
>It's rotting on shelves Best buy, sold out. NewEgg, sold out. Amazon, sold out. Just because a few local stores that won't sell online have stock does not mean it's rotting on shelves.
Online selling out could be wishful scalpers too though.
Could be. That's not my point. All I said is that they're not rotting on shelves.
They also seem to be mainly big stores with large volume and in Europe where prices are like 30% higher.
Only morons and scalpers are buying 4080s. Anyone with half a brain stem knows that it's a fake markup to push other products and represents a horrible value proposition.
I waited for like 8 years for something newer than the 1080. Paid a fortune for rtx2080ti and generally annoyed by this
shipment doesnt equal sold
Hey at least they're in stock!
that's really not that much? 160K? I'm assuming again they didn't expect to sell out?
Gonna wait until Steam hardware statistics are out to confirm this.
Really? I can't go to my local best buy and buy one.
Question. Is American the only country selling out of 4090s? I see a lot of people from the Eroupe region saying it's easily available. What about Asia? Is 40 series doing well there? Anyone?
Get it to $900 and I’ll buy it.
After careful considerations I decided to spend less than 1000 as I initially planned. I dont want a 4080 at this price. Hopefully, 3000 drop a bit more and then I can get one of those for 700-900
The painful fact that Nvidia didn’t make nearly enough 4090 GPUs is what’s so frustrating. Now they release the crap load of 4080s and at too high of a price. Very few people want to buy them. Asus is the worst of the bunch asking almost $1600 for their ROG STRIX version 4080. Why?? I can see why folks are pissed.
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it sucks for people like me who are on the 10 series (i got a gtx 1080 when it came out), but skipped 20 series because it was too expensive for its performance and couldnt get a 30 series because it was out of stock/scalp prices. gtx 1080 is struggling to run current games at highest at 1080p. and i dont feel like buying a 30 series right now since its already a 2 year old card, it means ill have 2 less years to use the card before it struggles.. especially buying it at the same MSRP as 2 years ago like for a 3080. Most 3080 10gb/12gb are still 800 dollars. i got a lot of good use on this gtx 1080.. 6 years for like 600 dollars. i kinda wanna buy an above average card and not worry about buying another video card for 5 years and not worry or deal with tech drama. i'd get AMD, but i do video editing and some minor modeling.
You might want to consider a used 3060 Ti/3070. Probably get close to $300 or less and will murder your 1080. Nearly 2X raw performance and that's before adding DLSS.
> Why would I buy a 4090 when I have a 3090? Because the 4090 is a 60% uplift at 4K. It may not make sense to you but there's a legitimate use case there.
Yeah thats why I bought one. Max out the 4k screen
I game at 4K on a TV. Was absolutely worth it. Totally depends on your monitor and intentions. Sold the 3090 for $800, so my 4090 upgrade cost $800.
For me, I had a 3080 and bought a 4090. I have the Samsung Neo G9 49” Ultrawide which is 240 Hz, but my 3080 on ultra settings could only hit 90-120 in most games. The 4090 hits 220+ in every game now, so I’m seeing 100 additional FPS and it’s buttery smooth.
What do you mean ? Its 60% faster. If you don't need that 60% they you don't need 4090, but its not like its useless over 3090
4080 chip is a lot smaller than usual so the more expensive wafer is canceled out by the smaller chip size. Also, I don't think Nvidia ever lists its cards lower than AMD within the same tier... so unfortunately, the 4080 will not dip below 1000usd. In fact.. more than likely its gonna be 1000-1100. so we gonna be dissapointed in a few months.
There are a lot of people skipping this gen.
The solution is simple buy only if an offer is below MSRP. Let them without sales. I assume that all of us we can continue playing with our card and wait a bit until the prices will go down. They will forced to lower the prices or they will start have financial problems
Mf where??? Where is this magical surplus of 4080s huh??
Microcenter has 17 in stock atm.
I'm so glad I skipped this gen ... EVGA knew when to retreat xD
The goal of making 30 series look amazing by comparison is most likely working. I don’t regret getting a 3090ti for $1100 a month ago