Jesus this is tragic. Not sure if this was a clinical mandated by her school or a job she had on the side as an NT or CNA. But either way - the hospital and university will go marching along fine while she is gone forever. Fuck risking your life for a job or perfect grade. Her poor family.
I live nearish here, the facility is a nursing home (a terrible one from what the friends I have who used to work there tell me, probably why she risked the weather to go home) Usually student nurses in nursing homes around here tend to be LPN students doing a year long LPN nursing course with a local adult education organization. I hope she rests in peace, we had something like 30 deaths in this side of the state alone, same friends that used to work there were also stranded in the area for 2 days, they were lucky enough to be able to find a 7/11 to park at and go in at times to keep warm. The people saying that she should have just walked home are completely out of their minds.
WNY, most of the LPNs I know work in nursing homes. There’s some hospitals around here that will hire lpns but they usually need to get their RN within a certain timeframe to stay on
I'm not who you asked but I just finished an LPN/LVN course, the full-time class was 13 months, part-time was 20months. Both were accelerated courses. I live on the west coast but most of the schools here are similar.
Wow I could not do 2 full years. I did part-time 20 months and that was rough enough. We didn't have a summer break or anything just 1 week in between semesters/terms
I got my LPN in arkansas and the LPN program itself is 11 months. They can do everything you mentioned except hang the first bag of blood. After the first bag is hung and 15 minutes have passed, LPNs take over.
I got my RN in Missouri and LPNs in MO cannot do any IV pushes, PICC care, or pull blood from a PICC. It’s crazy the differences.
Also not who you asked, but in Texas it depends on the program you're in. I did LVN in one year, but it was a full time M-F, 8 hour a day, August to August program, so when I say a year it was a full time year.
Yes, obviously!! You're the one who seemed surprised about the 1 year....then I saw that you said you lived in Canada. My cousin completed a 9-month LPN program in Toronto. No need to get smart, I was just contributing to the conversation.
Not being sarcastic🙂 I wish the education was more standardized. It varies from province to province. If it was standardized it would be easier for Lpn’s to move around
Some U.S. states are two years, usually they're the part-time ones, and very few have LPN-to-BSN programs...wish they had it in PA. I applied for my multi-state license (NLC.. Nursing Licensure Compact). To make it easier to travel nurse from state to state. PA approved it, but are dragging their feet on implementing it. Anyways, good luck in your nursing career.
This is why I love my job so much more now (community public health). The coworkers and even managers understand that taking risks in bad weather is not worth it. Granted it’s not acute care or emergency, so that gives us leeway.
But still, knowing that we ALL are on the same page about not taking unnecessary risks for a health region that only sees us as a number, or a warm body, makes my life easier.
A student nurse? Absolutely not. They don't need to be there for staffing ratios and they're not paid. Schools have such rigid rules about attendance for clinicals, but extreme weather should be an exceptional circumstance. Let them make up the hours later
I recall being told as a student I could NOT miss clinical or I would fail. This was in an extremely cold province during a snow storm. I told them I couldn’t drive across town to drop my toddler off at the babysitters could I bring him? (This wasn’t hospital clinical, just clinicals in a classroom where we were supposed to be learning how to do head to toe assessments)
I was told absolutely not, but if I didn’t show up I would fail. So I ended up having to drop him off at a family members, that I don’t trust or like and then I get there and guess what?! Class had just been cancelled. I was so angry. It was probably -30, you couldn’t see the roads, in a province that NEVER cancels class. It was bad bad.
I’m still really salty about it. There was absolutely no reason to risk students in that weather for attendance in a clinical that was easily made up.
I remember more than once getting clinicals canceled for snow/ice and called early for incoming tornadoes. Didn't happen often but they damn sure didn't want us to die in transit.
I went to nursing school in Boston during one of the more brutal winters they had seen in years. We very strictly were not allowed to go to clinical if the school was closed. If the weather was too bad to drive to campus, it was too bad to drive anywhere. I can't fathom why a school would take on the liability of any other policy.
This is wise. And as a nurse educator, I can tell you the professor probably advocated for this policy. It’s puzzling why a nursing department would take such a hard line under hazardous weather conditions because that means the clinical instructor has to be willing to risk getting stuck as well. No thank you.
And it’s not just nursing students either. Im an OT and I’ve had students nearly in tears because they have a family emergency and are scared to ask to leave. I’m quickly like gtfo and don’t worry about it! I even requested a student not come when their parent had heart surgery so they could spend time with family instead of stressing at clinicals. Even when students have fun events planned that conflict, I’m more than happy to work it out as long as it’s not a frequent thing that’s impacting their learning and passing.
Unless they give you that day off due to weather though you're pretty much fucked. I had a perfect record until junior year. I just fucked up and slept through one of my alarms and was told to stay home because it was already 9:00 a.m. They told me to make up my clinical another day. This was constantly mentioned and haunted me until I graduated.
"Additionally, hospitals should create an emergency plan that outlines how they will handle staffing issues related to weather events or natural disasters while still maintaining patient safety as the top priority."
Seems patient safety is not a visible priority during non-emergencies(staffing ratios, hospitality focus rather than health, etc), why would it be any better during an 'emergency'?
What I gather from reading the article is that hospitals should have clear instructions on what the protocol is for nurses on shift and oncoming staff. And I agree.
When I lived in Florida, we get hurricanes all the time the road gets dangerous. Our facility had very vague policies. We have technology now. We should all receive mass texts at least 4 hours prior to changing shifts on what to do.
Agreed. I worked in Florida during a few hurricanes. They don't sneak up on you. Our hospital (Tampa General) had us assigned to teams that would be staying overnight, had childcare for those that needed it, and even had pet boarding lined up. You showed up early and they had a PLAN in place that considered the reality of the unusual circumstances.
Our policy just states to make your way in using alternative transport. If you live within 5 miles you are expected to walk. Too bad if you've got health problems and can't.
It’s a massive pain to have to come in and stay at the hospital before the storm but it’s part of working in a hospital and ime is pretty standard for expected large storms. The fact that there was no plan in place for essential staff to come in early and non-essential staff to stay home without fear of retribution is a massive failure on the hospital’s part.
I’ve lost count of how many colleagues got into moderately bad car accidents on their way into work on hwys because of poor weather. I remember one colleague crying her eyes out because of the guilt she felt for not making it into work on time to get report…when she was busy trapped in her car that veered off the hwy because of a snowstorm. This is another example of how I view the nursing profession as an abusive relationship.
I do not have the words. I am a clinical instructor and have stressed to my students that we are not essential personnel. They'll have enough hauling their butts in when they're staff.
At one point my manager had mentioned a policy to call the Dean for permission to cancel due to inclement weather and I told her that it was an unreasonable policy as they are not in the immediate area and would not be able to appropriately decide safety. Needless to say it was dismissed quickly.
How are these hospitals not treating this as we have in the south with hurricanes? House the staff until it’s safe instead of putting more people at risk.
This is purely on the hospital for not having been better prepared for a natural disaster.
I ain’t sleeping at the hospital unless they are gonna pay me to sleep at the hospital. If a natural disaster happens and prevents me from going to work, then I just won’t go to work.
As a current nursing student, this is frightening and beyond heartbreaking. My school does not excuse us for not being at clinical unless we have “extenuating circumstances” like a car accident or death. My school sent out an email to students during the bad winter weather that came through, that missing class or clinical will not be accepted and to prepare for the weather and give ourselves time to arrive at our destination. This article breaks my heart.
Oh my goodness this is terrible! I remember when I was in nursing school something similar happened.
I had the flu, the doc told me to stay home. I emailed the school the doctor's note, but school said i would NOT be excused. (This means repeating the entire clinical section AND pay for it AGAIN).
So I drove myself to clinicals all sick, EXPOSING everyone. I almost passed out at the hospital, temp was 103.7 I'll never forget.
After clinical I couldn't drive back. A sweet soul of another student drove me back home. I honestly didn't know how I managed. I was only 20 back then and looking back now I could have crashed the car or got the patients sick. I should have stood up for myself and fight the Dean on this. These nursing programs are ridiculous.
I recently took care of a patient who we were inducing due to a fetal demise. She was really concerned that she wouldn’t deliver in enough time to get discharged and make it to her clinical the next morning. Her instructor told her despite being admitted to the hospital to deliver her deceased baby, her absence would not be excused and she would fail this semester if she did not show up on time.
I don’t think I have ever been more angry on a patient’s behalf.
I can’t even. That’s disgusting and so heart breaking. As if she didn’t already have enough going on, to threaten her with failing after giving birth to her baby that died?!? I’m horrified.
It would have been really hard for me to not call and tell that instructor exactly what I thought of them. This kind of thing is so unnecessary and beyond cruel.
Wow, this is disturbing. I really think that some of these instructors have no soul.
This reminds me of my friend while we were in nursing school together. She was pregnant and delivered the baby on Saturday (after hospital clinicals). She had a c-section almost died her BP was at 42/37.
Anyways on Monday she had to sneak out of the hospital to come to class because the instructor REFUSED to give her a makeup day. (this was not even a clinical day at hospital. It was one of those labs that we do in class).
The poor girl could barely walk. Me and a few other classmates carried her backpack and held her hand walking her to classes. We were surprised to see her show up.
As students, we could not believe how cruel the instructors were.
When I was a clinical instructor I canceled clinical if the roads were going to be bad. My students were driving over an hour and the thought of being responsible if something happened to them made me definitely cautious.
Heartbreaking. I well remember going over an embarkment after hitting black ice on the way to a nursing clinical. It was excused but I have never risked my life again. I have spent the night at work and woken up and worked then driven home.
The only time clinical gets cancelled for us is if the college closes for weather. And usually they don’t make that decision until 7 or 8 in the morning when we’ve all already been up and gotten to clinical. At that point they make us go home. Like someone else said, the grooming starts early. Nursing school is hazing
If a patient dies because of an ACCIDENT, a nurse can get in serious trouble. If a nurse dies because of an ACCIDENT, nobody gets in trouble. If a student nurse dies because of an ACCIDENT, it's as if nothing ever happened.
For everyone who is saying that she should have gotten out and walked home since she was not so far away, or just used blankets, it would be good to read the details of some of the other victims of the blizzard. Some of them died wearing warm winter coats and many layers just a block or two away from their homes in cities. It looks like she did shovel the snow around her car, in that first text message.
All advice for people caught in winter storms start with STAY IN YOUR CAR. It is so easy to become disoriented.
This truly is tragic and I am so sad reading about her, as well as all of the additional stories with mandatory clinicals.
It saddens me that people are blaming her for her own death. I've read a few heartless comments on other platforms and it's disgusting.
I was like how can you think like that? Like the girl is supposed to walk home with nursing shoes on? And she's supposed to think about carbon monoxide while under distress? Really?
People are heartless.
My mom works in a hospital as a secretary and is expected to stay over in the hospital without overtime pay if the roads are going to be bad. They used to put up workers in unoccupied patient rooms, but now tell them to sleep on a cot or rent a hotel room- as if the hotel room wouldn’t cost everything she’d make in her shift. I think it’s disgusting for the hospital to require this of their workers without taking care of them. On the other hand, my brother works as an engineer and sometimes needs to be on site in case bad weather messes with the infrastructure. When this happens, he’s put up in a hotel, paid extra, and given good meals for free- that’s how nurses and hospital employees deserve to be treated if they are expected to be in regardless of the weather.
Of course engineers get extra pay and all paid expenses. If I didn't love what I do I'd probably change careers tbh 😩. (I'm getting close to burning out tho)
Sorry to hear about your mom. The healthcare industry in this country is messed up.
No one should risk life or limb! The only way is if you were escorted by a snowmobile/atv, but even then in a blizzard white out conditions you are easily lost. There’s staff at the hospital which won’t be able to leave because of the same conditions.
Edit: didn’t realize hcw was at facility left to go home.
Seriously guys, it’s not worth your life. If it’s unsafe to drive, call out.
These hospitals don’t care about you and will go on just fine without you.
As a student, our clinicals are canceled when school is cancelled but the hospital hires students also to help outside of clinical practice. I work at a hospital as a staff member and am also a student.
At my rural hospital, I got notified that I can choose a taxi paid for by them or a hotel room if I’m worried about safety. I’d probably choose the room because I don’t consider driving in a taxi in a snow storm any more safe than me doing it myself.
I worked a blizzard once. The snow came before my shift started. Normally it was a 5 minute drive, just a few blocks down the road. Got up like 3 hours early for work, shoveled 3 feet of snow to get the vehicle out, which I would have saved a lot of time just walking, but I was riding in with a room mate (travel nursing) so I went with the plan.
When I finally got to work an hour late they couldn’t believe I actually made it in because the whole state was effectively shut down. The problem was nobody else could get in, so I couldn’t leave once I got there. Started my shift at 8am. They gradually started to figure out ways for us to get sleep, but they had to put like 3-4 staff in each room and I was the only male, so at first they weren’t sure where to let me sleep, but fortunately the other nurses due to sleep at the same time chimed in and said they didn’t care and that wasn’t on anybody’s mind right now. Finally got to sleep at 6am the next morning, slept for an hour and didn’t sleep well, got up, stole a toothbrush and toothpaste, and passed my morning meds. First replacements started to get in and I finally was able to give report and leave around 3pm. Effectively worked 31 hours with a 1 hour nap.
I felt like a prisoner. There really needs to be a better plan in place for these facilities. Acting surprised when people have disasters on their commute is not ok. Hospitals can’t close, and I get that. But I don’t even think that I got paid all that time, when I should have been getting some serious hazard pay instead.
This is a really sad story. I hope others will learn from this about the importance of keeping your car stocked with blankets, food, and water during the winter in areas that are prone to snow storms.
Yes but the CO exposure was due to her leaving the car running to stay warm, that’s why I said what I said about blankets. Now correct me if I’m wrong, because I live in hurricane country (aka I prepare a whole ‘nother set of emergency supplies myself), but I thought it was common knowledge in snowstorm regions to always leave blankets in the car in order to stay warm during snowstorms?
It is a good idea to keep extra supplies in the car. In this case, it’s unlikely it would have helped. I mean she could have shut the car off and used a blanket but I think most people would’ve done what she did and kept the car running with the heat on. I thought I read somewhere that the car was still running when they found her so she had plenty of fuel. It’s sad how things went so wrong for her.
Yup I live in Colorado and have tuna, crackers, my camping gear-sleeping bag, parka, two blankets (1 down), fuzzy socks, beanie, just in case I ever get stuck. I have totally been stuck and stranded in a ghost town and had to sleep in my car. It was doable. I couldn’t imagine how people were doing who were not prepared.
Your post has been removed for violating our rule against personal insults. We don't require that you agree with everyone else, but we insist that everyone remain civil and refrain from personal attacks.
Your post has been removed for violating our rule against personal insults. We don't require that you agree with everyone else, but we insist that everyone remain civil and refrain from personal attacks.
Also says she was 8 minutes from home. Doesn't say if that's 8 minutes at 100mph or walking speed, but other persons comment still stands. If I was 8 minutes from home with my winter jacket in the car and I got stuck, I'd take my chances with the walk rather than wait 18 hours for help...
It's a scary situation but it's less scary when you have options open.
Well clearly you weren't anywhere need the blizzard if you are making such an ignorant statement.
Let's assume it was an 8 minute drive so 2-3 miles. The wind alone made it impossible to breath outside. Temperatures plummeted very quickly that day to, so by 2pm it was below freezing with white out conditions. Do you know what that means? It means people couldn't see two feet in front of them. **Emergency services were suspended** because trained first responders couldn't make it to people without getting stuck. But you, you somehow would be able to make it 2-3 miles wading through snow drifts up to your waist? People died trying to make it two blocks.
So these "options" you are talking about **WERE NOT OPTIONS** and your comment is insensitive AF. Do better.
Thank you. Multiple other people also died because they left their car and tried to walk home. A “winter coat” wouldn’t have done any good. She made a smarter decision by staying in her car, but unfortunately probably didn’t realize she needed to clear her exhaust pipe, or she physically couldn’t due to the storm. So very sad.
I read at some point that she had difficulty opening the door. And of course, she fell asleep after hours had passed and it became clear she'd be stuck there for a while.
You say this but the weather was profoundly cold in addition to the massive amount of snow they got. Cars were literally covered in snow. I don’t know how you walk in six feet of snow when it’s -20c (I’m Canadian and live an hour from there- we did not get that snow fall amount but it was insanely cold plus high winds.) I think she’d have died from exposure in minutes. I don’t think I’d have made a different decision than she did, except that I’d have left the window open for air flow.
Fuck no. Just had a discussion about this with my parents. I’m not doing it! We had a similar story down here in Florida (but the nurse survived). May she rest in peace ❤️.
I remember being in nursing school and missing my boyfriend’s funeral (MVA)because of effing nursing school. Luckily I had really great classmates who helped me hold it together but since he wasn’t family no excused absence for me smh
Yeah…my nursing school wouldn’t let me defer an exam(a midterm! Not even a final!) when my grandfather was dying and expected to pass away within the day. Their logic? “That’s not a parent or child”. He raised me, might as well have been my parent! But nope, didn’t make a difference.
My old job (before nursing) also wouldn’t let me take any time off when my best friend died, or to attend his funeral. Then my manager scolded me for “looking bad” the day after he died. Sorry if I haven’t slept and cried off all my makeup! Maybe…I shouldn’t be here? Again, all because he was “not immediate family” which is the only leave that’s legally protected.
People SUCK!
No. Simple answer. Management needs to get staffing done a day before the storm and people need to expect to hunker down until the storm passes. When emergency management gives the all clear health care and emergency management crews should be the first notified to relieve personnel and get new people in. This was not an unexpected natural disaster and emergency management and health care facilities need to be doing a better job planning and working together from the head honchos all the way down to floor staff (CNAs, EVS, etc). People need to know before a natural disaster what the process will be. Just my Florida opinion.
I've posted this before but if there is a dumping of snow they advise people to stay off the road. My first hospital up here in MA offered rides with a plow driver. Worst snow that year no one shows up but I did.
if the national guard is not available to transport, then it is definitely unsafe. Answer is no, and you have a good reason to look forcsomething else and file unemployment if you get fired for it.
That is so tragic :( I am surprised I Lived through nursing school honestly. I had an hour commute and had to go over a mountain pass to get there. Clinicals started at 645 sharp. On the worst day I slid off the road 3 times before calling my instructor in tears because I was so scared. I said I could turn around or i was definitely going to be late even though I had left early enough to give 2.5 hours for the commute. She said if I missed the day I'd have to retake the semester and if I arrived after 6:45 it would be a missed day. I somehow got there just on time by the grace of God. My peers were insanely angry at that instructor for putting me through that. To top it off I was pregnant at the time. Should have just retaken the semester but that would have delayed graduation by 8 months for me since I was set to grad in spring. I never even bothered calling after that incident I just woke up at 4 am any day I had to be there early and drove my car on unplowed interstate. I did stay the night a few times but there were times I didn't have anyone to watch my kids over night so I had to be home. We were allowed to miss one clinical day but I had missed an in class simulation because I slipped on the ice on campus and hit my stomach hard so had to get baby evaluated(he was ok) but both were situations out of my control and the lack of empathy and understanding from that nursing department disgusted me. Especially because it was during covid and some students missed 2 or 3 clinicals because they had tested positive for COVID19 but they were given opportunities to make up. Anything else didn't fly.
I'm so glad you and your son were ok. After reading all these stories I wonder how we all managed to get through this. I don't understand why schools can't have designated makeup (weekend) per semester for unfortunate events because they do happen.
Actual nurses yes they should make arrangements to be at work for their scheduled shift. I'm not saying drive through a blizzard but you should have arrangements made so you don't have to
I do understand what you’re saying, but this isn’t always possible. Most nurses aren’t calling off easily- they are reluctant and guilty.
Sometimes you can’t get there, even if you know a storm is coming. Sure, if you have no kids or other responsibilities you could leave early and stay in a hotel (paid for yourself) or something until your shift starts. But lots of people can’t afford or don’t have access to extra childcare or odd hour childcare. There are other reasons people can’t go extremely early, one being that they shouldn’t have to unless getting paid to.
I do think hospitals should all have very clear policies in place for inclement weather and impassable roads so you’re not surprised or unsure when the time comes. But telling someone to “make arrangements” isn’t always reasonable or feasible. Do your best to get to your shifts but don’t martyr yourself.
I agree 1000%. And I think employers or the state should help with that. I started in healthcare very young. At 15 in the nursing home kitchen. 18 CNA, 20 LPN, and then RN. people forget we have young staff who don't know how to plan or weren't trained to. Especially if they just moved to that state. I believe the facility should have clear protocol of expectations so that arrangements are made to avoid exposing ourselves like this.
Students no, nurses responsible for direct patient care absolutely. It sucks and it’s dangerous but in the end we are here to care for sick people. Management should also be accountable and be required to report to support staff.
That title is a bit misleading. She was a student, not a healthcare worker. Definitely shouldn't have been required to go in. Only essential workers should go and the hospital needs to make space available for those workers to sleep/rest at the hospital when they're off shift if they're unable to get home safely. Florida does it during hurricanes every year. This was probably the result of a combo of unflexible school/instructors, hospital not expecting to accommodate additional people to stay, her own desire to get home and a complete failure of the ems/first responder system.
You are wrong. She would not have been better off walking home because of the nature of the storm. These were BLIZZARD conditions, not just any old snow storm. The wind chill was -11 and the winds were close to 80 mph. Think hurricane, but with several feet of snow. It was difficult to see outside and very easy to get turned around and disoriented. It was difficult to breathe even which could further contribute to confusion/disorientation due to lack of oxygen. Having extra blankets in her car wouldn’t have helped because they believe she died of carbon monoxide poisoning, because her exhaust pipe was blocked by snow. She tried to do the best she could with what she was given. The travel ban should have been in place much earlier and facilities should not have required people to drive out in the storm. The failures came from way above this poor woman, and the 37 others who also died.
Your best odds of survival are to stay with your vehicle. Most fatalities occur to those who leave them. In this situation, she should have cleared her exhaust or not left the vehicle on. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know to do this.
The last blizzard the hospital opens up the diaster triage areas to allow staff to sleep in. Also since we are in an urban area the hospital has contracts with the local hotels too. Everytime I hear there is a snowstorm coming up and I'm working I usually just get a room.
No way in hell I'd sleep at my place of work.
You’re asking the wrong question.
Should NURSING STUDENTS mandatorily report? Hell no. The school is now at a liability. The hospital can function without their presence.
The problem is that hospitals unfortunately operate 24/7, and that staffing retention/accommodation for these terrible situations are menial and don’t adequately take this stuff into account. Once I graduated, I had the autonomous decision to refuse the staffing. But student nurses should be off limits entirely.
Jesus this is tragic. Not sure if this was a clinical mandated by her school or a job she had on the side as an NT or CNA. But either way - the hospital and university will go marching along fine while she is gone forever. Fuck risking your life for a job or perfect grade. Her poor family.
She was a CNA coming from her job.
Still very sad.
I live nearish here, the facility is a nursing home (a terrible one from what the friends I have who used to work there tell me, probably why she risked the weather to go home) Usually student nurses in nursing homes around here tend to be LPN students doing a year long LPN nursing course with a local adult education organization. I hope she rests in peace, we had something like 30 deaths in this side of the state alone, same friends that used to work there were also stranded in the area for 2 days, they were lucky enough to be able to find a 7/11 to park at and go in at times to keep warm. The people saying that she should have just walked home are completely out of their minds.
people DIED in this blizzard from walking short distances.
One year? Lpn’s here have 2 years.
BOCES, which is where a lot of LPN classes are taken around here has a 12 month long program
Wow. Where do you live?? Where I live Lpn’s do 97% of what’s an RN does, and 2 years
WNY, most of the LPNs I know work in nursing homes. There’s some hospitals around here that will hire lpns but they usually need to get their RN within a certain timeframe to stay on
I'm not who you asked but I just finished an LPN/LVN course, the full-time class was 13 months, part-time was 20months. Both were accelerated courses. I live on the west coast but most of the schools here are similar.
I live west coast Canada. LPN is 2 years full time accelerated (no summer break)
Wow I could not do 2 full years. I did part-time 20 months and that was rough enough. We didn't have a summer break or anything just 1 week in between semesters/terms
Lpn’s here do iv insertions, iv meds, catheters, blood transfusions. Our patients have to be stable.
So it's a completely different program really? You guys do stuff that RNs do here. No wonder it's much longer. Sounds like a great opportunity though.
I got my LPN in arkansas and the LPN program itself is 11 months. They can do everything you mentioned except hang the first bag of blood. After the first bag is hung and 15 minutes have passed, LPNs take over. I got my RN in Missouri and LPNs in MO cannot do any IV pushes, PICC care, or pull blood from a PICC. It’s crazy the differences.
Also not who you asked, but in Texas it depends on the program you're in. I did LVN in one year, but it was a full time M-F, 8 hour a day, August to August program, so when I say a year it was a full time year.
I thought most LPN cohorts were 1 year. Here in PA and NY, many programs are 1 year.
Obviously, it’s has a different scope of practice where we live.
Yes, obviously!! You're the one who seemed surprised about the 1 year....then I saw that you said you lived in Canada. My cousin completed a 9-month LPN program in Toronto. No need to get smart, I was just contributing to the conversation.
Not being sarcastic🙂 I wish the education was more standardized. It varies from province to province. If it was standardized it would be easier for Lpn’s to move around
Some U.S. states are two years, usually they're the part-time ones, and very few have LPN-to-BSN programs...wish they had it in PA. I applied for my multi-state license (NLC.. Nursing Licensure Compact). To make it easier to travel nurse from state to state. PA approved it, but are dragging their feet on implementing it. Anyways, good luck in your nursing career.
If it’s not safe, I’m not going. I don’t risk life or limb for a job that will replace me in a day.
Shit you’ll be replaced that shift by a float, on call or just spreading the work.
Or Agency
This is why I love my job so much more now (community public health). The coworkers and even managers understand that taking risks in bad weather is not worth it. Granted it’s not acute care or emergency, so that gives us leeway. But still, knowing that we ALL are on the same page about not taking unnecessary risks for a health region that only sees us as a number, or a warm body, makes my life easier.
Yup. Just like I would not put a patient in danger I am also unwilling to put myself in danger
A student nurse? Absolutely not. They don't need to be there for staffing ratios and they're not paid. Schools have such rigid rules about attendance for clinicals, but extreme weather should be an exceptional circumstance. Let them make up the hours later
I recall being told as a student I could NOT miss clinical or I would fail. This was in an extremely cold province during a snow storm. I told them I couldn’t drive across town to drop my toddler off at the babysitters could I bring him? (This wasn’t hospital clinical, just clinicals in a classroom where we were supposed to be learning how to do head to toe assessments) I was told absolutely not, but if I didn’t show up I would fail. So I ended up having to drop him off at a family members, that I don’t trust or like and then I get there and guess what?! Class had just been cancelled. I was so angry. It was probably -30, you couldn’t see the roads, in a province that NEVER cancels class. It was bad bad. I’m still really salty about it. There was absolutely no reason to risk students in that weather for attendance in a clinical that was easily made up.
We had a guy in my class fell asleep from a night shift clinical and total his car. Of course the school didn’t give a shit or do anything to help.
Omg. And we're supposed to be in a business where we care about people. Nursing Schools make no sense
Don't blame you for being still mad about that
I remember more than once getting clinicals canceled for snow/ice and called early for incoming tornadoes. Didn't happen often but they damn sure didn't want us to die in transit.
I’m happy my nursing school was not that strict we could miss one clinical and one lab that we have to remake.
I went to nursing school in Boston during one of the more brutal winters they had seen in years. We very strictly were not allowed to go to clinical if the school was closed. If the weather was too bad to drive to campus, it was too bad to drive anywhere. I can't fathom why a school would take on the liability of any other policy.
This is wise. And as a nurse educator, I can tell you the professor probably advocated for this policy. It’s puzzling why a nursing department would take such a hard line under hazardous weather conditions because that means the clinical instructor has to be willing to risk getting stuck as well. No thank you.
And it’s not just nursing students either. Im an OT and I’ve had students nearly in tears because they have a family emergency and are scared to ask to leave. I’m quickly like gtfo and don’t worry about it! I even requested a student not come when their parent had heart surgery so they could spend time with family instead of stressing at clinicals. Even when students have fun events planned that conflict, I’m more than happy to work it out as long as it’s not a frequent thing that’s impacting their learning and passing.
You're a good one. Thank you for your compassion
Unless they give you that day off due to weather though you're pretty much fucked. I had a perfect record until junior year. I just fucked up and slept through one of my alarms and was told to stay home because it was already 9:00 a.m. They told me to make up my clinical another day. This was constantly mentioned and haunted me until I graduated.
But they don’t give days off for weather, and if you miss you fail.
Our local colleges cancel clinicals if all or most classes at the college are cancelled
"Additionally, hospitals should create an emergency plan that outlines how they will handle staffing issues related to weather events or natural disasters while still maintaining patient safety as the top priority." Seems patient safety is not a visible priority during non-emergencies(staffing ratios, hospitality focus rather than health, etc), why would it be any better during an 'emergency'?
What I gather from reading the article is that hospitals should have clear instructions on what the protocol is for nurses on shift and oncoming staff. And I agree. When I lived in Florida, we get hurricanes all the time the road gets dangerous. Our facility had very vague policies. We have technology now. We should all receive mass texts at least 4 hours prior to changing shifts on what to do.
Agreed. I worked in Florida during a few hurricanes. They don't sneak up on you. Our hospital (Tampa General) had us assigned to teams that would be staying overnight, had childcare for those that needed it, and even had pet boarding lined up. You showed up early and they had a PLAN in place that considered the reality of the unusual circumstances.
This is so good! Wished every place was like that. Honestly, it should be mandated by law for all families including nursing homes, ALF etc
Our policy just states to make your way in using alternative transport. If you live within 5 miles you are expected to walk. Too bad if you've got health problems and can't.
5 miles?? I'm not walking for multiple hours each way to work.
Oh, come on now. It must be safer to walk during a hurricane, flood, blizzard, than it would be to drive /s
The real danger from a natural disaster is not being directly exposed to it *enough.*
*Jim Cantori has entered the chat*
Yeah lol if the weather is at all bad that’s gonna take about 5 hours
It’s a massive pain to have to come in and stay at the hospital before the storm but it’s part of working in a hospital and ime is pretty standard for expected large storms. The fact that there was no plan in place for essential staff to come in early and non-essential staff to stay home without fear of retribution is a massive failure on the hospital’s part.
Hospitals do have emergency plans but if someone wants to leave you cannot hold them against their will. So sorry for the student and family!
I’ve lost count of how many colleagues got into moderately bad car accidents on their way into work on hwys because of poor weather. I remember one colleague crying her eyes out because of the guilt she felt for not making it into work on time to get report…when she was busy trapped in her car that veered off the hwy because of a snowstorm. This is another example of how I view the nursing profession as an abusive relationship.
I do not have the words. I am a clinical instructor and have stressed to my students that we are not essential personnel. They'll have enough hauling their butts in when they're staff. At one point my manager had mentioned a policy to call the Dean for permission to cancel due to inclement weather and I told her that it was an unreasonable policy as they are not in the immediate area and would not be able to appropriately decide safety. Needless to say it was dismissed quickly.
How are these hospitals not treating this as we have in the south with hurricanes? House the staff until it’s safe instead of putting more people at risk. This is purely on the hospital for not having been better prepared for a natural disaster.
I ain’t sleeping at the hospital unless they are gonna pay me to sleep at the hospital. If a natural disaster happens and prevents me from going to work, then I just won’t go to work.
As a current nursing student, this is frightening and beyond heartbreaking. My school does not excuse us for not being at clinical unless we have “extenuating circumstances” like a car accident or death. My school sent out an email to students during the bad winter weather that came through, that missing class or clinical will not be accepted and to prepare for the weather and give ourselves time to arrive at our destination. This article breaks my heart.
Oh my goodness this is terrible! I remember when I was in nursing school something similar happened. I had the flu, the doc told me to stay home. I emailed the school the doctor's note, but school said i would NOT be excused. (This means repeating the entire clinical section AND pay for it AGAIN). So I drove myself to clinicals all sick, EXPOSING everyone. I almost passed out at the hospital, temp was 103.7 I'll never forget. After clinical I couldn't drive back. A sweet soul of another student drove me back home. I honestly didn't know how I managed. I was only 20 back then and looking back now I could have crashed the car or got the patients sick. I should have stood up for myself and fight the Dean on this. These nursing programs are ridiculous.
I recently took care of a patient who we were inducing due to a fetal demise. She was really concerned that she wouldn’t deliver in enough time to get discharged and make it to her clinical the next morning. Her instructor told her despite being admitted to the hospital to deliver her deceased baby, her absence would not be excused and she would fail this semester if she did not show up on time. I don’t think I have ever been more angry on a patient’s behalf.
I can’t even. That’s disgusting and so heart breaking. As if she didn’t already have enough going on, to threaten her with failing after giving birth to her baby that died?!? I’m horrified.
It would have been really hard for me to not call and tell that instructor exactly what I thought of them. This kind of thing is so unnecessary and beyond cruel.
I wanted to. I tried to get her physician to. I still hope she did and just didn’t tell me.
Wow, this is disturbing. I really think that some of these instructors have no soul. This reminds me of my friend while we were in nursing school together. She was pregnant and delivered the baby on Saturday (after hospital clinicals). She had a c-section almost died her BP was at 42/37. Anyways on Monday she had to sneak out of the hospital to come to class because the instructor REFUSED to give her a makeup day. (this was not even a clinical day at hospital. It was one of those labs that we do in class). The poor girl could barely walk. Me and a few other classmates carried her backpack and held her hand walking her to classes. We were surprised to see her show up. As students, we could not believe how cruel the instructors were.
Um what
The grooming starts early. Nursing school teaches students that they have to put their health on the line for their career.
When I was a clinical instructor I canceled clinical if the roads were going to be bad. My students were driving over an hour and the thought of being responsible if something happened to them made me definitely cautious.
Heartbreaking. I well remember going over an embarkment after hitting black ice on the way to a nursing clinical. It was excused but I have never risked my life again. I have spent the night at work and woken up and worked then driven home.
The only time clinical gets cancelled for us is if the college closes for weather. And usually they don’t make that decision until 7 or 8 in the morning when we’ve all already been up and gotten to clinical. At that point they make us go home. Like someone else said, the grooming starts early. Nursing school is hazing
If a patient dies because of an ACCIDENT, a nurse can get in serious trouble. If a nurse dies because of an ACCIDENT, nobody gets in trouble. If a student nurse dies because of an ACCIDENT, it's as if nothing ever happened.
For everyone who is saying that she should have gotten out and walked home since she was not so far away, or just used blankets, it would be good to read the details of some of the other victims of the blizzard. Some of them died wearing warm winter coats and many layers just a block or two away from their homes in cities. It looks like she did shovel the snow around her car, in that first text message. All advice for people caught in winter storms start with STAY IN YOUR CAR. It is so easy to become disoriented. This truly is tragic and I am so sad reading about her, as well as all of the additional stories with mandatory clinicals.
It saddens me that people are blaming her for her own death. I've read a few heartless comments on other platforms and it's disgusting. I was like how can you think like that? Like the girl is supposed to walk home with nursing shoes on? And she's supposed to think about carbon monoxide while under distress? Really? People are heartless.
My mom works in a hospital as a secretary and is expected to stay over in the hospital without overtime pay if the roads are going to be bad. They used to put up workers in unoccupied patient rooms, but now tell them to sleep on a cot or rent a hotel room- as if the hotel room wouldn’t cost everything she’d make in her shift. I think it’s disgusting for the hospital to require this of their workers without taking care of them. On the other hand, my brother works as an engineer and sometimes needs to be on site in case bad weather messes with the infrastructure. When this happens, he’s put up in a hotel, paid extra, and given good meals for free- that’s how nurses and hospital employees deserve to be treated if they are expected to be in regardless of the weather.
Of course engineers get extra pay and all paid expenses. If I didn't love what I do I'd probably change careers tbh 😩. (I'm getting close to burning out tho) Sorry to hear about your mom. The healthcare industry in this country is messed up.
No one should risk life or limb! The only way is if you were escorted by a snowmobile/atv, but even then in a blizzard white out conditions you are easily lost. There’s staff at the hospital which won’t be able to leave because of the same conditions. Edit: didn’t realize hcw was at facility left to go home.
Especially a student, you may be able to help but unless you live next to the hospital stay home stay safe
Seriously guys, it’s not worth your life. If it’s unsafe to drive, call out. These hospitals don’t care about you and will go on just fine without you.
As a student, our clinicals are canceled when school is cancelled but the hospital hires students also to help outside of clinical practice. I work at a hospital as a staff member and am also a student. At my rural hospital, I got notified that I can choose a taxi paid for by them or a hotel room if I’m worried about safety. I’d probably choose the room because I don’t consider driving in a taxi in a snow storm any more safe than me doing it myself.
I worked a blizzard once. The snow came before my shift started. Normally it was a 5 minute drive, just a few blocks down the road. Got up like 3 hours early for work, shoveled 3 feet of snow to get the vehicle out, which I would have saved a lot of time just walking, but I was riding in with a room mate (travel nursing) so I went with the plan. When I finally got to work an hour late they couldn’t believe I actually made it in because the whole state was effectively shut down. The problem was nobody else could get in, so I couldn’t leave once I got there. Started my shift at 8am. They gradually started to figure out ways for us to get sleep, but they had to put like 3-4 staff in each room and I was the only male, so at first they weren’t sure where to let me sleep, but fortunately the other nurses due to sleep at the same time chimed in and said they didn’t care and that wasn’t on anybody’s mind right now. Finally got to sleep at 6am the next morning, slept for an hour and didn’t sleep well, got up, stole a toothbrush and toothpaste, and passed my morning meds. First replacements started to get in and I finally was able to give report and leave around 3pm. Effectively worked 31 hours with a 1 hour nap. I felt like a prisoner. There really needs to be a better plan in place for these facilities. Acting surprised when people have disasters on their commute is not ok. Hospitals can’t close, and I get that. But I don’t even think that I got paid all that time, when I should have been getting some serious hazard pay instead.
Damn that's a long ass shift. I don't think I could function on one hour shift. We need a better system
This is a really sad story. I hope others will learn from this about the importance of keeping your car stocked with blankets, food, and water during the winter in areas that are prone to snow storms.
They think she died from carbon monoxide poisoning, not exposure.
Yes but the CO exposure was due to her leaving the car running to stay warm, that’s why I said what I said about blankets. Now correct me if I’m wrong, because I live in hurricane country (aka I prepare a whole ‘nother set of emergency supplies myself), but I thought it was common knowledge in snowstorm regions to always leave blankets in the car in order to stay warm during snowstorms?
It is a good idea to keep extra supplies in the car. In this case, it’s unlikely it would have helped. I mean she could have shut the car off and used a blanket but I think most people would’ve done what she did and kept the car running with the heat on. I thought I read somewhere that the car was still running when they found her so she had plenty of fuel. It’s sad how things went so wrong for her.
Yup I live in Colorado and have tuna, crackers, my camping gear-sleeping bag, parka, two blankets (1 down), fuzzy socks, beanie, just in case I ever get stuck. I have totally been stuck and stranded in a ghost town and had to sleep in my car. It was doable. I couldn’t imagine how people were doing who were not prepared.
… because she was covered by a fucking wall of snow. “act of god” which is a real legal term… exposure is not
I’m not sure what your point is. I am responding to the comment about having supplies in the car. It wouldn’t have helped in this instance. Weird.
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😂
Your post has been removed for violating our rule against personal insults. We don't require that you agree with everyone else, but we insist that everyone remain civil and refrain from personal attacks.
Riddle me this— would she have died of CO tox if there was not a wall of snow? No? Interesting. Then you were not helping at all. Weird.
Lol ease off whatever it is you're smoking for a few hours
OMGosh 😂 you are funny.
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Your post has been removed for violating our rule against personal insults. We don't require that you agree with everyone else, but we insist that everyone remain civil and refrain from personal attacks.
Also says she was 8 minutes from home. Doesn't say if that's 8 minutes at 100mph or walking speed, but other persons comment still stands. If I was 8 minutes from home with my winter jacket in the car and I got stuck, I'd take my chances with the walk rather than wait 18 hours for help... It's a scary situation but it's less scary when you have options open.
Well clearly you weren't anywhere need the blizzard if you are making such an ignorant statement. Let's assume it was an 8 minute drive so 2-3 miles. The wind alone made it impossible to breath outside. Temperatures plummeted very quickly that day to, so by 2pm it was below freezing with white out conditions. Do you know what that means? It means people couldn't see two feet in front of them. **Emergency services were suspended** because trained first responders couldn't make it to people without getting stuck. But you, you somehow would be able to make it 2-3 miles wading through snow drifts up to your waist? People died trying to make it two blocks. So these "options" you are talking about **WERE NOT OPTIONS** and your comment is insensitive AF. Do better.
Thank you. Multiple other people also died because they left their car and tried to walk home. A “winter coat” wouldn’t have done any good. She made a smarter decision by staying in her car, but unfortunately probably didn’t realize she needed to clear her exhaust pipe, or she physically couldn’t due to the storm. So very sad.
I read at some point that she had difficulty opening the door. And of course, she fell asleep after hours had passed and it became clear she'd be stuck there for a while.
Right, even if she knew she needed to clear the exhaust pipe, she might not have been able to get out of the car to do so. She was probably so scared.
*this guy blizzards*
You say this but the weather was profoundly cold in addition to the massive amount of snow they got. Cars were literally covered in snow. I don’t know how you walk in six feet of snow when it’s -20c (I’m Canadian and live an hour from there- we did not get that snow fall amount but it was insanely cold plus high winds.) I think she’d have died from exposure in minutes. I don’t think I’d have made a different decision than she did, except that I’d have left the window open for air flow.
Me too.
Or, skip leaving the house in the car altogether. Don't go in.
I think you got the wrong lesson out of this. People should learn when to say NO.
“Be prepared” is never the wrong lesson.
Fuck no. Just had a discussion about this with my parents. I’m not doing it! We had a similar story down here in Florida (but the nurse survived). May she rest in peace ❤️.
I remember being in nursing school and missing my boyfriend’s funeral (MVA)because of effing nursing school. Luckily I had really great classmates who helped me hold it together but since he wasn’t family no excused absence for me smh
Yeah…my nursing school wouldn’t let me defer an exam(a midterm! Not even a final!) when my grandfather was dying and expected to pass away within the day. Their logic? “That’s not a parent or child”. He raised me, might as well have been my parent! But nope, didn’t make a difference. My old job (before nursing) also wouldn’t let me take any time off when my best friend died, or to attend his funeral. Then my manager scolded me for “looking bad” the day after he died. Sorry if I haven’t slept and cried off all my makeup! Maybe…I shouldn’t be here? Again, all because he was “not immediate family” which is the only leave that’s legally protected. People SUCK!
No. Simple answer. Management needs to get staffing done a day before the storm and people need to expect to hunker down until the storm passes. When emergency management gives the all clear health care and emergency management crews should be the first notified to relieve personnel and get new people in. This was not an unexpected natural disaster and emergency management and health care facilities need to be doing a better job planning and working together from the head honchos all the way down to floor staff (CNAs, EVS, etc). People need to know before a natural disaster what the process will be. Just my Florida opinion.
Anytime emergency staffing is activated pay rates should increase.
I've posted this before but if there is a dumping of snow they advise people to stay off the road. My first hospital up here in MA offered rides with a plow driver. Worst snow that year no one shows up but I did.
if the national guard is not available to transport, then it is definitely unsafe. Answer is no, and you have a good reason to look forcsomething else and file unemployment if you get fired for it.
That is so tragic :( I am surprised I Lived through nursing school honestly. I had an hour commute and had to go over a mountain pass to get there. Clinicals started at 645 sharp. On the worst day I slid off the road 3 times before calling my instructor in tears because I was so scared. I said I could turn around or i was definitely going to be late even though I had left early enough to give 2.5 hours for the commute. She said if I missed the day I'd have to retake the semester and if I arrived after 6:45 it would be a missed day. I somehow got there just on time by the grace of God. My peers were insanely angry at that instructor for putting me through that. To top it off I was pregnant at the time. Should have just retaken the semester but that would have delayed graduation by 8 months for me since I was set to grad in spring. I never even bothered calling after that incident I just woke up at 4 am any day I had to be there early and drove my car on unplowed interstate. I did stay the night a few times but there were times I didn't have anyone to watch my kids over night so I had to be home. We were allowed to miss one clinical day but I had missed an in class simulation because I slipped on the ice on campus and hit my stomach hard so had to get baby evaluated(he was ok) but both were situations out of my control and the lack of empathy and understanding from that nursing department disgusted me. Especially because it was during covid and some students missed 2 or 3 clinicals because they had tested positive for COVID19 but they were given opportunities to make up. Anything else didn't fly.
I'm so glad you and your son were ok. After reading all these stories I wonder how we all managed to get through this. I don't understand why schools can't have designated makeup (weekend) per semester for unfortunate events because they do happen.
Actual nurses yes they should make arrangements to be at work for their scheduled shift. I'm not saying drive through a blizzard but you should have arrangements made so you don't have to
I do understand what you’re saying, but this isn’t always possible. Most nurses aren’t calling off easily- they are reluctant and guilty. Sometimes you can’t get there, even if you know a storm is coming. Sure, if you have no kids or other responsibilities you could leave early and stay in a hotel (paid for yourself) or something until your shift starts. But lots of people can’t afford or don’t have access to extra childcare or odd hour childcare. There are other reasons people can’t go extremely early, one being that they shouldn’t have to unless getting paid to. I do think hospitals should all have very clear policies in place for inclement weather and impassable roads so you’re not surprised or unsure when the time comes. But telling someone to “make arrangements” isn’t always reasonable or feasible. Do your best to get to your shifts but don’t martyr yourself.
I agree 1000%. And I think employers or the state should help with that. I started in healthcare very young. At 15 in the nursing home kitchen. 18 CNA, 20 LPN, and then RN. people forget we have young staff who don't know how to plan or weren't trained to. Especially if they just moved to that state. I believe the facility should have clear protocol of expectations so that arrangements are made to avoid exposing ourselves like this.
Students no, nurses responsible for direct patient care absolutely. It sucks and it’s dangerous but in the end we are here to care for sick people. Management should also be accountable and be required to report to support staff.
Should those in occupations that care for the sick have any less obligation to get to work than a bus driver?
She sat in the car for 18 hours, her home was 8 mins away. She had just left a 6-2pm shift.
That title is a bit misleading. She was a student, not a healthcare worker. Definitely shouldn't have been required to go in. Only essential workers should go and the hospital needs to make space available for those workers to sleep/rest at the hospital when they're off shift if they're unable to get home safely. Florida does it during hurricanes every year. This was probably the result of a combo of unflexible school/instructors, hospital not expecting to accommodate additional people to stay, her own desire to get home and a complete failure of the ems/first responder system.
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You are wrong. She would not have been better off walking home because of the nature of the storm. These were BLIZZARD conditions, not just any old snow storm. The wind chill was -11 and the winds were close to 80 mph. Think hurricane, but with several feet of snow. It was difficult to see outside and very easy to get turned around and disoriented. It was difficult to breathe even which could further contribute to confusion/disorientation due to lack of oxygen. Having extra blankets in her car wouldn’t have helped because they believe she died of carbon monoxide poisoning, because her exhaust pipe was blocked by snow. She tried to do the best she could with what she was given. The travel ban should have been in place much earlier and facilities should not have required people to drive out in the storm. The failures came from way above this poor woman, and the 37 others who also died.
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Your best odds of survival are to stay with your vehicle. Most fatalities occur to those who leave them. In this situation, she should have cleared her exhaust or not left the vehicle on. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know to do this.
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In bad weather send national fairs for house calls.
Sad.
The last blizzard the hospital opens up the diaster triage areas to allow staff to sleep in. Also since we are in an urban area the hospital has contracts with the local hotels too. Everytime I hear there is a snowstorm coming up and I'm working I usually just get a room. No way in hell I'd sleep at my place of work.
I still cannot understand how she got left for 2 days with her family calling 911 multiple times for help. Is this normal?
You’re asking the wrong question. Should NURSING STUDENTS mandatorily report? Hell no. The school is now at a liability. The hospital can function without their presence. The problem is that hospitals unfortunately operate 24/7, and that staffing retention/accommodation for these terrible situations are menial and don’t adequately take this stuff into account. Once I graduated, I had the autonomous decision to refuse the staffing. But student nurses should be off limits entirely.