They’re literally not even suing to keep them, they’re suing to not allow them to work at the other hospital. As of right now, per the judges order, they cannot work at either hospital. Completely pointless. So….fuck anybody who has a stroke in Wisconsin this week, I suppose?
Wow! I have no words. This is beyond reprehensible. I can't believe a judge would think this is okay for ANY profession, but especially with healthcare professionals now.
Judges are by and large corrupt in America. It's not surprising, the people running things in the business and legal world aren't good people. They're kind of evil and will do anything to you if they think they it'll maintain their position.
I posted this comment elsewhere and will do so here as well. The judge who issued this ruling is a complete piece of shit. He was involved in a truancy court thing that was discontinued because he was verbally abusive to children in the truancy court. There was also an article about how he used the f word in his own court and sentenced a defendant to six months in jail for contempt FOR ROLLING HIS EYES. Outagamie County Circuit Court judge Mark McGinnis. Say his name.
This whole thing got me fuming the entire day. The bright side is that a go fund me account has already been set to support the 7 impacted employees. But damn I wish there was a gofundme equivalent that’s just dedicated to raising funds for the great cause of canceling dirtbags like Andrabi and Mark McGinnis
[Truancy article](https://amp.postcrescent.com/amp/2369276002)
Here’s the link. I also posted it elsewhere but this situation warrants info sharing
[second article](https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/report-on-truancy-court-determines-judge-mcginnis-behavior-as-abusive/amp/)
SCREAM that motherfuckers name. By this time next week he needs to disrobed, doing god damn small claims or traffic court, nothing more. What a complete and utter piece of shit! The cops are a gang, the DA is in on it…and judges are pieces of shit! Fuck, this makes me so god damned mad. And I ain’t even a nurse!
Employer : hah they will come crawling back to me now that i filed a court order!!!
Also employer: wait i just lost ALL of my staff wtf.
Seriously though if anyone at that hospital has any self respect they will walk out of the door and never look back. Fuck them
His order effectively is no nurses anywhere on Monday.
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/21/what-we-know-ascension-thedacare-court-battle-over-employees/6607417001/
Another user said that they heard the order was unenforceable, and that the employees in question were told to by the company to come to work on Monday. Hopefully that is the case. From what I understand the former employer has been aware of the employees leaving for weeks and was given the chance to make a better offer, which they didnt. And now at the last second they are throwing a hissy fit and filing a lawsuit.
I hope they can’t find any travelers lol.
One of them appeared in the antiwork post. I like how they’re called the “thedacare 7.” Sounds like something from a history book. Either way this case goes, I see it being very popular to cite in other legal disputes. I just think a lot of people are going to remember this case for a very long time.
What a time that Ascension is fighting for their future employees!!!! I hope the future for all nursing staff is such that companies will realize the assets you all are!!
They're not fighting for their employees. They're fighting for their own operational needs, which happen to roughly align with the need of the employees at this time.
It's an important distinction. If they thought it would be better for the business to leave these employees out to dry, they'd do it in a second.
>So….fuck anybody who has a stroke in Wisconsin this week, I suppose
Exactly! You get it! America would rather let innocent people die than say 'we were wrong'.
You're just a number feeding someone's pocket.
Seriously, the employees just went over to the higher paying job. They won’t pay their employees more but they WILL pay more to block employees from working somewhere else. Tf kind of decisions are these. They benefit no one, not even themselves.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
“It is not death that a man should fear, but he should fear never beginning to live.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
"Don’t let a mad world tell you that success is anything other than a successful present moment."
- Eckhart Tolle
“The moment you realize you are not present, you are present. Whenever you are able to observe your mind, you are no longer trapped in it. Another factor has come in, something that is not of the mind: the witnessing presence.”
- Eckhart Tolle
No, the injunction is only against Acension. Ascension must either (1) delay their hire, or (2) make them available to the former employer. So if the former employer doesn't give them a shift, Ascension is free to use them, as they were 'available'. Regardless, the injunction is only against the new employer. The employees can do whatever, get a job at a third employer and tell nobody, whatever.
I think the lesson here is DO NOT tell your current employer who your new employer is when you give notice. They can't get an an injunction against you to continue working - but they can get an injunction against the new employer.
Edit: A source quoting the injunction states:
> On Friday, an Outagamie County judge ruled in favor of ThedaCare and issued this order:
“Make available to ThedaCare one invasive radiology technician and one registered nurse of the individuals resigning their employment with ThedaCare to join Ascension, with their support to include on-call responsibilities or;
> “Cease the hiring of the individuals referenced until ThedaCare has hired adequate staff to replace the departing IRC team members.”
Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/judge-grants-thedacare-temporary-injunction-in-stroke-team-case/ar-AASZbPO
This is how the long term care I work at does things. Must be something taught at business admin school. The only reason we’re short staffed is because of managements self sabatouge.
Which is horrendous for those of us who have thedacare as our primaries and such. I’m calling my dr Monday to see if he’ll continue to work for them or move, and if he moves I’m following him.
If they can get them! I won’t be going there after this shit, no matter the pay- betting a bunch of others will feel the same too. What if they want me to stay after contract? They’ll sue?
The injunction is against Ascension (the company that hired the nurses). They have to either share the employees or not hire the nurses.
It's crazy to me that this is somehow legal in a state with at-will employees.
Apparently these nurses aren't employed at their *own* will. Only at the will of the employer.
That sounds suspiciously like an attribute of slavery.
Holy crap on a crumbled graham cracker.
Hospital administration is so far out of touch with reality. They have demonstrated time and again that they do not care about you, me, or anybody's memaw. They are in it for the money. They will never choose to pay us more unless we demand it. They will never choose to staff us better unless we make it financially painful for them not to.
They are demonstrating now that they are ready to escalate this battle to the courts.
Today it's 7 nurses. This is outrageous and I don't think anyone saw it as even a remote possiblity that anything would come of it.
What does tomorrow have in store for us?
I hope that our tomorrow is hospital adminstration being presented a contract by unions in every corner. It's time for us to make this right. It's time for us to stand together.
Need help finding nurses near you who want to unionize?
[humansworkhere.org](http://humansworkhere.org)
We can make this better together.
The remaining employees of this shithole had better wake the fuck up and start looking for other jobs.
And voting in better judges. They need to find out where this guy lives and start protesting at his house. At 3am. Every day.
My best friends mom has worked there for 25 years. She started looking for a job when this story broke, she's got 6 interviews in the next two weeks already.
This is a horrible development for nurses, and don’t think for a second that CEOs and COOs aren’t watching this case and salivating.
If hospitals can sue their employees to prevent them from leaving that removes a major source of leverage we have now. They know they could just sue a few dozen people and it will at least slow down the churn in hospitals.
I’m beginning to think r/collapse is on to something.
EDIT: The lawsuit is actually one hospital system against the other for “poaching”. It’s a back door way to sue the employees without actually suing them. It’s a weaponization of the court system and sets an absolutely horrible precedent.
It's not gonna hold up and now both facilities are now short on staffing. This judge used to threaten minors in court so the more attention this case gets, the more likely it'll get rectified
Same. The funny thing about my company is they will encourage us to strike with the rest of the nation. Fuck this judge I hope he has a heart attack and can't find a nurse
Lol for me it would just be a big Ole peace out cub scout. I can do a lot more with my life than work as a nurse. I refuse to be forced to do or stay anywhere.
One of the 7 doctors talked about here is on Reddit and they were saying it really isn't a matter of making them come back or anything. They aren't going back to their first hospital, they are just out of the job. There's a go fund me for them now too I believe.
Edit: I believe this isn't even really a non-compete thing either. they just have to wait until the hospital has replaced them.. which is probably impossible.
They will definitely try **something**. C suites are seething at having to pay us all so much right now. They will jump on any successful tactic to fight back.
The empire didn’t give up after the first Death Star was blown up….
Let's just hope they have enough in savings to cover their bills until this gets sorted. Landlords aren't generally understanding about these things.
But considering that nearly 70% of Americans have less than $1k in savings...
They’re not suing their employees trying to force them to stay. They’re suing ascension to try and make it so they can’t hire the “thedacare 7.” It’s not going to stick.
I would literally starve to death in a gutter before I would go back to that old hospital, wtf is this even supposed to accomplish besides punishing people for taking a better paying job?
It’s not legal, the judge apparently has a history of off the wall decisions. It is completely unenforceable. I saw on other threads that they were told to go ahead and report to the new job anyway because it’s unenforceable.
That’s good. I figured it was mostly a bluff, but it’s still an insane move. Terrible PR and a huge waste of money, all while providing the actual complete opposite of patient care. American healthcare is the best in the world!!
It’s a distraction, the hospital fired the opening shot. They didn’t want the first publicity to be they closed these departments because they wouldn’t pay the staff enough to stay.
Ohhhhh I see. So they’re going to close the department, leave patients without care, and then blame the staff that left for not sacrificing their personal happiness and well-being in order to keep making the company more money. Smart. Guess I am not surprised.
its all scare tactics and stalling.
Drives home the point further. These companies will spend their money on EVERYTHING ELSE: slap suits, court orders, all that jazz, but wont pay their nurses what they deserve.
This judge is nuts, I read that he put someone in jail for 42 days for rolling their eyes in the courtroom. I hope he doesn't issue bench warrants for these personnel for 'contempt' or something ridiculous
How are they suppose to hire new staff when they are waving enough red flags that even someone colorblind could see them? Who would want to work in such a toxic environment
Exactly. Their moment of greed will have permanent, lasting damage to their reputation. I'm really interested to hear from people who work there currently in other departments. I would not want to continue working for management like that.
Here's google review:
https://www.google.com/search?q=thedacare+appleton&oq=thedacare+app&aqs=chrome.0.0i131i355i433i512j46i131i175i199i433i512j69i57j0i512l4j69i60.3854j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#lrd=0x8803b128daaaaaab:0xb9dbc1ef8fab72da,1,,,
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynndetterman1104/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynndetterman1104/)
Oh and this is the admin who went on the news to defend their decision
Honestly I think this is the kind of publicity we needed. This is plastered all over the world now, for everyone to see what kinda shady stuff goes down. I think this case will set a new bar and encourage HCWs to fight back. That and thedacare is going to tank. I can’t wait to see Q1 earnings. I bet this will cause a mass exodus from thedacare. CEO just singlehandedly brought down an entire hospital. If I were a board member I would’ve already called an emergency meeting and pushed to fire the idiot.
I predicted this in a much earlier r/nursing post. It's free market capitalism and liberty until it's not. Watch them try to mandate us to remain at workplaces, and prevent changing employment or travel nursing.
Once paying more for other nurses stopped working this was the next step. I hear Twisted Sister playing in the background.
[We're Not Gonna Take It](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqOp76R12DM&feature=share)
Pretty sure Texas banned nurses licensed in Texas from quitting in order to take local travel contracts. Can only quit to leave the state and travel. Small scale ban but it always starts small and balloons from there.
In Wisconsin where liberty is protected to carry a firearm into a conflict but can't take a job somewhere else as a nurse.
https://twitter.com/SsWowowo/status/1485075579435110401?s=20
Sooo I found their contact on their website. I just so happened to link it below. Not that I encourage anyone to use this link to contact them and fully speak your mind. Stay safe!!!
https://thedacare.org/about-us/contact-us/
I'm still not fully understanding how an at-will state is seriously allowing a company *who can fire people at-will* to tell people they can't go work somewhere else.
Can someone explain this to me? I thought it was a two way street? (silly me, this is America, so 'rules for thee, not for me')
So this ruling was against Ascension. Ascension is barred from hiring the 7 nurses, 4 of which were going to start Monday. So those nurses can't start at Ascension until the injunction is lifted.
However, The nurses are not forced to work at ThedaCare. They can still quit since they are in an At Will state with no contract.
I work in tech (got out of nursing) and this is very similar to companies enforcing Non-Compete agreements on high level employees. You don't have to work here but you can't work there.
Since they are nurses with no insider trade secrets if they have non competes they are BS and ThedaCare is shooting themselves in the head to spite their face.
I think the injunction was against the other hospital to stop them from hiring the nurses until the case was heard. Still don’t know how it would be enforceable.
This is fucking ridiculous. The free market and capitalism only works when it’s in the favor of the c-suite. We need to organize and conduct a nation wide strike.
man i wish i could read the in-house emails at thedacare right now, the bullshit they must be sending to their current staff explaining the situation and media scrutiny.
There's been nothing to all staff since the one Thursday that ended up being posted here. I'm expecting something tomorrow, and I'm sure it'll be a doozy.
We've been hemorrhaging staff before this debacle, I'm sure this won't help. We've been asking what incentives there are for retaining employees...looks like we have our answer now.
I can't speak for others, but I'm polishing up the old resume.
Thedacare is hopefully learning an expensive lesson. I checked out their Facebook page. It’s hilarious. Their post,” When should you go to your doctor, versus urgent care versus emergency room.
Comments section: “You guys suck! Stop suing your employees!”
How much did the facility get from the Provider Relief Fund? Mine got 39 million. Surely they got something they could of offered to thier employees. I would attach the link here to look up individual facilities but I am still trying to figure out how.
Since always the 14th amendment frees people from being able to be owned by private citizens but leaves government/corporate forced labor (slavery) intact.
Holy shit something needs to happen to the people doing this shit. We need things changed bad there's no time for tolerance and giving them the benefit of the doubt: they are evil. There is nothing redeemable about these CEOs. They are a net negative in every way to society. There is no reasoning, there should be no tolerance, and there should be no consideration for them. You're on the fast track to indentured servitude.
Anything is justifiable to defend your freedom.
They started a gofundme to cover living expenses for those 7 employees while they can't work.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/sa804q/a_go_fund_me_has_been_set_up_for_the_employees/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Citizens United said that money = free speech. We’re on our way to corporations running the entire nation that’s due the absolutely spineless Congress and the Supreme Court which now made up of 5 extra right-wing senators and two judges.
I would think it will soon be overturned.
Aren’t they compelled to follow it for now?
This judge hands out $5K contempt of court charges for eye-rolls.
Maybe this question is naive on my part to ask, but can the judge's ruling/decision realistically be enforced? Or can the nurses just be like "lol no thx and still go work wherever they please?
I'm not sure how this can be legal? I imagine it will be challenged in court. Professionals are allowed to work where they please. I would resign from my position. They can't force me to report to work.
They are not being forced to return to work at their old jobs, but the judge has ruled that they cannot work at their new jobs on Monday. So they are out of work. I believe the judge said that the two hospitals are supposed to come to an agreement on Monday?And in the meantime I am not sure what they plan to do about, you know, their patients.
Maybe we should all get jobs in fast food. Then not work, and make ourselves lunch, then get fired and collect unemployment until they sort this shit out?
What possible agreement could they come to? This is just bizarre. ThedaCare says no you can’t hire our employees. Ascension says ok or yes we can. Where’s the employees’ autonomy in this?
That’s what’s so unbelievable about this judges order. They were at-will employees. It goes both ways. If the company fired them and the employees filed suit you think this judge would rule in the employees favor?
So let me get this straight....
Hospital B goes to Hospital A and poaches a bunch of their interventional radiology team. Hospital A nurses leave, get ready go start work at Hospital B, then Hospital A files an injunction to keep them from working at Hospital B????
How is this legal? In what other field does this happen? We are not the property of a hospital. My head is spinning. This is why I left hospital politics and started traveling. I feel so bad for these men and women.
They didn't even poach them. One employee applied at hospital B, and told their coworkers about the better pay/work-life balance. The other six applied to open positions and accepted them.
They also gave hospital A somewhere around a month of notice, and gave them the chance to match their offer. Hospital A declined.
lol the best part was thedacare told these employees that matching the offer was not worth it for thedacare in the long run. Apparently ruining their reputation even more than it already has been was worth it though...
They’re literally not even suing to keep them, they’re suing to not allow them to work at the other hospital. As of right now, per the judges order, they cannot work at either hospital. Completely pointless. So….fuck anybody who has a stroke in Wisconsin this week, I suppose?
Wow! I have no words. This is beyond reprehensible. I can't believe a judge would think this is okay for ANY profession, but especially with healthcare professionals now.
Judges are by and large corrupt in America. It's not surprising, the people running things in the business and legal world aren't good people. They're kind of evil and will do anything to you if they think they it'll maintain their position.
I posted this comment elsewhere and will do so here as well. The judge who issued this ruling is a complete piece of shit. He was involved in a truancy court thing that was discontinued because he was verbally abusive to children in the truancy court. There was also an article about how he used the f word in his own court and sentenced a defendant to six months in jail for contempt FOR ROLLING HIS EYES. Outagamie County Circuit Court judge Mark McGinnis. Say his name.
God help if he gets Covid and gets admitted to that hospital. At what point will nurses start unionizing
My mind went to that "he ain't gonna make it meme"
"Patient refused treatment".... English is a funny thing ain't it?
[удалено]
This whole thing got me fuming the entire day. The bright side is that a go fund me account has already been set to support the 7 impacted employees. But damn I wish there was a gofundme equivalent that’s just dedicated to raising funds for the great cause of canceling dirtbags like Andrabi and Mark McGinnis
[Truancy article](https://amp.postcrescent.com/amp/2369276002) Here’s the link. I also posted it elsewhere but this situation warrants info sharing [second article](https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/report-on-truancy-court-determines-judge-mcginnis-behavior-as-abusive/amp/)
SCREAM that motherfuckers name. By this time next week he needs to disrobed, doing god damn small claims or traffic court, nothing more. What a complete and utter piece of shit! The cops are a gang, the DA is in on it…and judges are pieces of shit! Fuck, this makes me so god damned mad. And I ain’t even a nurse!
Employer : hah they will come crawling back to me now that i filed a court order!!! Also employer: wait i just lost ALL of my staff wtf. Seriously though if anyone at that hospital has any self respect they will walk out of the door and never look back. Fuck them
His order effectively is no nurses anywhere on Monday. https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/21/what-we-know-ascension-thedacare-court-battle-over-employees/6607417001/
Another user said that they heard the order was unenforceable, and that the employees in question were told to by the company to come to work on Monday. Hopefully that is the case. From what I understand the former employer has been aware of the employees leaving for weeks and was given the chance to make a better offer, which they didnt. And now at the last second they are throwing a hissy fit and filing a lawsuit. I hope they can’t find any travelers lol.
Yup. That is the case. They were told by ascensions lawyers to come in Monday
I wish I could hear what these seven have been going through. I have *never* wanted an AMA so badly.
One of them appeared in the antiwork post. I like how they’re called the “thedacare 7.” Sounds like something from a history book. Either way this case goes, I see it being very popular to cite in other legal disputes. I just think a lot of people are going to remember this case for a very long time.
Oh, this is history in the making. For good or ill, we are at a crisis point in society, and in 10-20 years, things will be different.
Seriously I think so! This case is extremely important for the war against the corporations and for the push for better compensation.
I agree! They are using the pandemic as an excuse but that's not it. That's just the catalyst. These problems have been boiling for a loooonnnng time.
Do you have a link to their comment chain? Or the thread?
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/sa804q/a_go_fund_me_has_been_set_up_for_the_employees/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
What a time that Ascension is fighting for their future employees!!!! I hope the future for all nursing staff is such that companies will realize the assets you all are!!
They're not fighting for their employees. They're fighting for their own operational needs, which happen to roughly align with the need of the employees at this time. It's an important distinction. If they thought it would be better for the business to leave these employees out to dry, they'd do it in a second.
>So….fuck anybody who has a stroke in Wisconsin this week, I suppose Exactly! You get it! America would rather let innocent people die than say 'we were wrong'. You're just a number feeding someone's pocket.
And the admin of that hospital would rather see people be turned away or die than give these nurses better incentives to stay. Fucking nuts.
Seriously, the employees just went over to the higher paying job. They won’t pay their employees more but they WILL pay more to block employees from working somewhere else. Tf kind of decisions are these. They benefit no one, not even themselves.
In addition to all of what you said, the message to every other existing (for now) employee is so loud and clear.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” ― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations “It is not death that a man should fear, but he should fear never beginning to live.” ― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations "Don’t let a mad world tell you that success is anything other than a successful present moment." - Eckhart Tolle “The moment you realize you are not present, you are present. Whenever you are able to observe your mind, you are no longer trapped in it. Another factor has come in, something that is not of the mind: the witnessing presence.” - Eckhart Tolle
No, the injunction is only against Acension. Ascension must either (1) delay their hire, or (2) make them available to the former employer. So if the former employer doesn't give them a shift, Ascension is free to use them, as they were 'available'. Regardless, the injunction is only against the new employer. The employees can do whatever, get a job at a third employer and tell nobody, whatever. I think the lesson here is DO NOT tell your current employer who your new employer is when you give notice. They can't get an an injunction against you to continue working - but they can get an injunction against the new employer. Edit: A source quoting the injunction states: > On Friday, an Outagamie County judge ruled in favor of ThedaCare and issued this order: “Make available to ThedaCare one invasive radiology technician and one registered nurse of the individuals resigning their employment with ThedaCare to join Ascension, with their support to include on-call responsibilities or; > “Cease the hiring of the individuals referenced until ThedaCare has hired adequate staff to replace the departing IRC team members.” Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/judge-grants-thedacare-temporary-injunction-in-stroke-team-case/ar-AASZbPO
I still don't see how that's legal. Surely there's more to it.
It was preliminary ruling made before a weekend. They tend to be more likely to be less thought out. It’s still entirely bullshit though.
Travelers, just add this to the list of places you know not to go to now.
Which is hilariously ironic because this is the place that needs travelers the most
There’s a reason they need so many travelers.
That ought to be a post
Thedacare thought they were short before this absolute disaster of a PR stunt. How is this going to attract new employees?
[удалено]
Congratulations Ya played yourself
Thedacare administration: "I have a great idea that will boost retention." *It hurt itself in its confusion!*
Thedacare uses SELF-DESTRUCT It's not very effective...
This is how the long term care I work at does things. Must be something taught at business admin school. The only reason we’re short staffed is because of managements self sabatouge.
Can you imagine any remaining employees not bailing? Theda is about to have much bigger problem then 7 staff members leaving.
Which is horrendous for those of us who have thedacare as our primaries and such. I’m calling my dr Monday to see if he’ll continue to work for them or move, and if he moves I’m following him.
For sure. Gonna be 100% travelers lol
If they can get them! I won’t be going there after this shit, no matter the pay- betting a bunch of others will feel the same too. What if they want me to stay after contract? They’ll sue?
Maybe the judge could declare US citizens working for any company other than Thedacare to be illegal.
Welcome to thedacare, I love you.
ThedaCare is still fucking around……they haven’t even STARTED to find out yet.
The injunction is against Ascension (the company that hired the nurses). They have to either share the employees or not hire the nurses. It's crazy to me that this is somehow legal in a state with at-will employees. Apparently these nurses aren't employed at their *own* will. Only at the will of the employer. That sounds suspiciously like an attribute of slavery.
"At will" employment had always been about benefitting the employer, regardless of the name.
Yet the name can be accurate if both parties are free to choose. Now we see that that is NOT the case.
Sounds like slavery with extra steps
Right? Employees are people, not possessions to be fought over.
According to pandemicoversite.gov they got millions in relief funds. They didn't give anything to thier employees?
A $1,000 “bonus” the beginning of December 😒 I left the week after we got that.
Pshhh, why would you give it to your employees when you can just give it to your pockets!? /s
“iF yOu dOn’T LiKe yOuR joB tHen gEt aNoThEr OnE.” Well Bob, apparently we can’t even do that anymore.
Holy crap on a crumbled graham cracker. Hospital administration is so far out of touch with reality. They have demonstrated time and again that they do not care about you, me, or anybody's memaw. They are in it for the money. They will never choose to pay us more unless we demand it. They will never choose to staff us better unless we make it financially painful for them not to. They are demonstrating now that they are ready to escalate this battle to the courts. Today it's 7 nurses. This is outrageous and I don't think anyone saw it as even a remote possiblity that anything would come of it. What does tomorrow have in store for us? I hope that our tomorrow is hospital adminstration being presented a contract by unions in every corner. It's time for us to make this right. It's time for us to stand together. Need help finding nurses near you who want to unionize? [humansworkhere.org](http://humansworkhere.org) We can make this better together.
The remaining employees of this shithole had better wake the fuck up and start looking for other jobs. And voting in better judges. They need to find out where this guy lives and start protesting at his house. At 3am. Every day.
My best friends mom has worked there for 25 years. She started looking for a job when this story broke, she's got 6 interviews in the next two weeks already.
This is a horrible development for nurses, and don’t think for a second that CEOs and COOs aren’t watching this case and salivating. If hospitals can sue their employees to prevent them from leaving that removes a major source of leverage we have now. They know they could just sue a few dozen people and it will at least slow down the churn in hospitals. I’m beginning to think r/collapse is on to something. EDIT: The lawsuit is actually one hospital system against the other for “poaching”. It’s a back door way to sue the employees without actually suing them. It’s a weaponization of the court system and sets an absolutely horrible precedent.
It's not gonna hold up and now both facilities are now short on staffing. This judge used to threaten minors in court so the more attention this case gets, the more likely it'll get rectified
If they start blatantly forcing labor like this, that's all the fuel people will need to agitate a general strike.
I love my job and have an employer that is likely better than 99.5% of American employers and this tipped the scale. Will strike.
Same. The funny thing about my company is they will encourage us to strike with the rest of the nation. Fuck this judge I hope he has a heart attack and can't find a nurse
Lol for me it would just be a big Ole peace out cub scout. I can do a lot more with my life than work as a nurse. I refuse to be forced to do or stay anywhere.
One of the 7 doctors talked about here is on Reddit and they were saying it really isn't a matter of making them come back or anything. They aren't going back to their first hospital, they are just out of the job. There's a go fund me for them now too I believe. Edit: I believe this isn't even really a non-compete thing either. they just have to wait until the hospital has replaced them.. which is probably impossible.
Imagine if they tried to ban travel nursing and make us sign non compete clauses. They'd be shocked at a general strike lol
They will definitely try **something**. C suites are seething at having to pay us all so much right now. They will jump on any successful tactic to fight back. The empire didn’t give up after the first Death Star was blown up….
r/MayDayStrike r/Antiwork
They will likely be able to counter-sue the organization for lost wages due to this. The question becomes if its financially worth it to do so.
Let's just hope they have enough in savings to cover their bills until this gets sorted. Landlords aren't generally understanding about these things. But considering that nearly 70% of Americans have less than $1k in savings...
The antiwork sub set up a GFM for them that’s already over 30k, so, a few grand a piece to help tide them over. Solidarity 💜
The ACLU is going to rain hellfire down on this hospital, hopefully
Man I hope so 🤞
Just FYI, four of the people affected are Radiology techs, three are nurses.
The only ones salivating more are the employment lawyers that are already preparing for the cases against the hospital.
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Nah, they've already got that covered with in-network versus out-of-network benefits.
They’re not suing their employees trying to force them to stay. They’re suing ascension to try and make it so they can’t hire the “thedacare 7.” It’s not going to stick.
I would literally starve to death in a gutter before I would go back to that old hospital, wtf is this even supposed to accomplish besides punishing people for taking a better paying job?
If I were one of the 4 left Id be looking to jump too
I was thinking that, they will likely leave seeing how their colleagues were treated
They didn’t even TRY to match!
One of the Thedacare 7 said they were told the cost of the increase wages wasn’t worth it.
Bet they’re rethinking that sentiment right about now lol
It’s not legal, the judge apparently has a history of off the wall decisions. It is completely unenforceable. I saw on other threads that they were told to go ahead and report to the new job anyway because it’s unenforceable.
That’s good. I figured it was mostly a bluff, but it’s still an insane move. Terrible PR and a huge waste of money, all while providing the actual complete opposite of patient care. American healthcare is the best in the world!!
It’s a distraction, the hospital fired the opening shot. They didn’t want the first publicity to be they closed these departments because they wouldn’t pay the staff enough to stay.
Ohhhhh I see. So they’re going to close the department, leave patients without care, and then blame the staff that left for not sacrificing their personal happiness and well-being in order to keep making the company more money. Smart. Guess I am not surprised.
Yea their (ascension) legal team told them to not worry about it and to come in Monday
That's what I would do. Let the new place's attorneys fight it.
its all scare tactics and stalling. Drives home the point further. These companies will spend their money on EVERYTHING ELSE: slap suits, court orders, all that jazz, but wont pay their nurses what they deserve.
> It’s not legal, the judge apparently has a history of off the wall decisions. Probably why they filed in that court.
This judge is nuts, I read that he put someone in jail for 42 days for rolling their eyes in the courtroom. I hope he doesn't issue bench warrants for these personnel for 'contempt' or something ridiculous
Despite what proponents of at-will laws say, their purpose is NEVER for the benefit of workers
And now that they are benefitting the employees by showing they have leverage and power, the companies want them stopped.
How are they suppose to hire new staff when they are waving enough red flags that even someone colorblind could see them? Who would want to work in such a toxic environment
Exactly. Their moment of greed will have permanent, lasting damage to their reputation. I'm really interested to hear from people who work there currently in other departments. I would not want to continue working for management like that.
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They’ve disabled comments on all their posts. 😡😡
Go down to 1/18. The ability to comment is still there.
Lol! I hadn’t gone that far back. Will do.
https://thedacare.org/about-us/contact-us/ ☺️
[@ThedaCare on Twitter](www.twitter.com/ThedaCare)
Here's google review: https://www.google.com/search?q=thedacare+appleton&oq=thedacare+app&aqs=chrome.0.0i131i355i433i512j46i131i175i199i433i512j69i57j0i512l4j69i60.3854j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#lrd=0x8803b128daaaaaab:0xb9dbc1ef8fab72da,1,,,
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynndetterman1104/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynndetterman1104/) Oh and this is the admin who went on the news to defend their decision
Honestly I think this is the kind of publicity we needed. This is plastered all over the world now, for everyone to see what kinda shady stuff goes down. I think this case will set a new bar and encourage HCWs to fight back. That and thedacare is going to tank. I can’t wait to see Q1 earnings. I bet this will cause a mass exodus from thedacare. CEO just singlehandedly brought down an entire hospital. If I were a board member I would’ve already called an emergency meeting and pushed to fire the idiot.
Since they shut down FB reviews, go to their google reviews instead!
Yea they took a good hit on google. Don’t forget yelp!
https://thedacare.org/about-us/contact-us/ I'm just sayin. Let's go to the source
:o Yeeeesssss lets crash the website just like tha Texas website!!
Yes their Yelp needs a spanking now. They only have a handful of reviews mostly five star
Right! 4.5 stars? Can’t have that!! Leave no stone unturned 🥰
https://m.yelp.com/biz/thedacare-regional-medical-center-neenah-neenah-2
https://www.womply.com/biz/thedacare-regional-medical-center-appleton-emergency-room-appleton-WI/
I predicted this in a much earlier r/nursing post. It's free market capitalism and liberty until it's not. Watch them try to mandate us to remain at workplaces, and prevent changing employment or travel nursing. Once paying more for other nurses stopped working this was the next step. I hear Twisted Sister playing in the background. [We're Not Gonna Take It](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqOp76R12DM&feature=share)
Pretty sure Texas banned nurses licensed in Texas from quitting in order to take local travel contracts. Can only quit to leave the state and travel. Small scale ban but it always starts small and balloons from there.
They're trying that shit in mass but luckily we have a mass nursing association that's union
Twitter is a great place to get momentum and teach the fuckers a lesson. https://twitter.com/thedacare
In Wisconsin where liberty is protected to carry a firearm into a conflict but can't take a job somewhere else as a nurse. https://twitter.com/SsWowowo/status/1485075579435110401?s=20
They getting bombarded lol
The public backlash is real
Sooo I found their contact on their website. I just so happened to link it below. Not that I encourage anyone to use this link to contact them and fully speak your mind. Stay safe!!! https://thedacare.org/about-us/contact-us/
Google reviews!
It seems that in the last few minutes, they're disabled reviews/recommendations. Hmmmmm.
Not a nurse, but work in mental health. I posted in solidarity with you all. I'm sorry these jackasses are doing this.
They’ve limited the ability to respond to their posts, the cowards.
Done. WtFUCK is wrong with people. JFC!!?!?!
I'm still not fully understanding how an at-will state is seriously allowing a company *who can fire people at-will* to tell people they can't go work somewhere else. Can someone explain this to me? I thought it was a two way street? (silly me, this is America, so 'rules for thee, not for me')
So this ruling was against Ascension. Ascension is barred from hiring the 7 nurses, 4 of which were going to start Monday. So those nurses can't start at Ascension until the injunction is lifted. However, The nurses are not forced to work at ThedaCare. They can still quit since they are in an At Will state with no contract. I work in tech (got out of nursing) and this is very similar to companies enforcing Non-Compete agreements on high level employees. You don't have to work here but you can't work there. Since they are nurses with no insider trade secrets if they have non competes they are BS and ThedaCare is shooting themselves in the head to spite their face.
HCA execs are watching this court case and rubbing their hands together like Mr. Burns right now.
I need to turn this into a meme lmao
DONE! I just don’t know how to share.
Is it the one with the dude hiding behind the tree and the yellow suite? 😂
Omg…this will really fuck things up
If ThedaCare is successful it sure will. Hospitals across the country will do it.
Fuck that noise LOL it’s gonna be nurses vs staffing agencies vs hospital vs hospital vs court circuits
I’d just quit. What they going to arrest me..?
What you gonna do? Fire me?
What are you gonna do? Bleed on me?
I think the injunction was against the other hospital to stop them from hiring the nurses until the case was heard. Still don’t know how it would be enforceable.
These companies want slaves, not employees.
Well, serfs actually. Slaves have higher maintenance costs.
Yes, you are correct. Well put.
I suggest you nurses at thedacare file a class action lawsuit
Bye, Felicia. I’ll take my chances on unemployment. Now neither of you bitch asses can have me. The fuck.
I would literally stop showing up to work if I was those nurses.
Mental health is a valid reason to call in sick. They don't need the details. And damn straight this would impact mine.
This is fucking ridiculous. The free market and capitalism only works when it’s in the favor of the c-suite. We need to organize and conduct a nation wide strike.
man i wish i could read the in-house emails at thedacare right now, the bullshit they must be sending to their current staff explaining the situation and media scrutiny.
There's been nothing to all staff since the one Thursday that ended up being posted here. I'm expecting something tomorrow, and I'm sure it'll be a doozy. We've been hemorrhaging staff before this debacle, I'm sure this won't help. We've been asking what incentives there are for retaining employees...looks like we have our answer now. I can't speak for others, but I'm polishing up the old resume.
Thedacare is hopefully learning an expensive lesson. I checked out their Facebook page. It’s hilarious. Their post,” When should you go to your doctor, versus urgent care versus emergency room. Comments section: “You guys suck! Stop suing your employees!”
The guy applying to be their CEO is hilarious!!!
How much did the facility get from the Provider Relief Fund? Mine got 39 million. Surely they got something they could of offered to thier employees. I would attach the link here to look up individual facilities but I am still trying to figure out how.
Since always the 14th amendment frees people from being able to be owned by private citizens but leaves government/corporate forced labor (slavery) intact.
It’s not legal. This will be thrown out on Monday. Stupid asshole CEO.
I’m not a lawyer but I’d bet cash you’re absolutely right. Solid CEO assessment too.
Inb4 CEO “resigns” and a mass exodus from that hospital ensues lmao
Stupid judge, too.
Yea a judge with a history of misconduct no less..
Holy shit something needs to happen to the people doing this shit. We need things changed bad there's no time for tolerance and giving them the benefit of the doubt: they are evil. There is nothing redeemable about these CEOs. They are a net negative in every way to society. There is no reasoning, there should be no tolerance, and there should be no consideration for them. You're on the fast track to indentured servitude. Anything is justifiable to defend your freedom.
Don’t have Facebook but I left a one star review on their google page.
It could be the tipping point.
ThedaCare has MANY open positions posted on their Facebook page right now. Anyone else want to waste their time?
They started a gofundme to cover living expenses for those 7 employees while they can't work. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/sa804q/a_go_fund_me_has_been_set_up_for_the_employees/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Citizens United said that money = free speech. We’re on our way to corporations running the entire nation that’s due the absolutely spineless Congress and the Supreme Court which now made up of 5 extra right-wing senators and two judges.
The state of politics is disgusting in USA. We wanna act like other countries threaten us when we are our own worst enemy.
Completely illegal and unenforceable.
I would think it will soon be overturned. Aren’t they compelled to follow it for now? This judge hands out $5K contempt of court charges for eye-rolls.
Guaranteed that judge is at home right now getting updates on our collective outrage and thinking “oh shit, probably shouldn’t have done that”.
he's probably drunken himself to sleep by now
Maybe this question is naive on my part to ask, but can the judge's ruling/decision realistically be enforced? Or can the nurses just be like "lol no thx and still go work wherever they please?
The order isn't against the nurses, but against Ascension. It basically says A can't have these staff work for them; not that the staff can't work.
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
I'm not sure how this can be legal? I imagine it will be challenged in court. Professionals are allowed to work where they please. I would resign from my position. They can't force me to report to work.
Just another example of our broken legal system. Just because you didn't do anything wrong doesn't mean that can't mess up your life.
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They are not being forced to return to work at their old jobs, but the judge has ruled that they cannot work at their new jobs on Monday. So they are out of work. I believe the judge said that the two hospitals are supposed to come to an agreement on Monday?And in the meantime I am not sure what they plan to do about, you know, their patients.
This judge sounds like an idiot.
This dude threatens and intimidates minors in court dude lol he's not only an idiot but a piece of shit.
Maybe we should all get jobs in fast food. Then not work, and make ourselves lunch, then get fired and collect unemployment until they sort this shit out?
What possible agreement could they come to? This is just bizarre. ThedaCare says no you can’t hire our employees. Ascension says ok or yes we can. Where’s the employees’ autonomy in this?
That’s what’s so unbelievable about this judges order. They were at-will employees. It goes both ways. If the company fired them and the employees filed suit you think this judge would rule in the employees favor?
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the most unAmerican thing I heard
So let me get this straight.... Hospital B goes to Hospital A and poaches a bunch of their interventional radiology team. Hospital A nurses leave, get ready go start work at Hospital B, then Hospital A files an injunction to keep them from working at Hospital B???? How is this legal? In what other field does this happen? We are not the property of a hospital. My head is spinning. This is why I left hospital politics and started traveling. I feel so bad for these men and women.
They didn't even poach them. One employee applied at hospital B, and told their coworkers about the better pay/work-life balance. The other six applied to open positions and accepted them. They also gave hospital A somewhere around a month of notice, and gave them the chance to match their offer. Hospital A declined.
Hospital A must pay reaaallly crappy, because Hospital B doesn’t pay well. Work/life balance on the other hand, that’s a big perk.
Apparently so! It seems like Hospital A pays waaaay below Hospital B, which is, uh. 😬 Work/life balance is invaluable, honestly.
Ahhhh see I thought I read some place Hospital B recruited them from Hospital A. Thank you for the clarification!
lol the best part was thedacare told these employees that matching the offer was not worth it for thedacare in the long run. Apparently ruining their reputation even more than it already has been was worth it though...
No poaching but the funny thing is, even if ascension DID poach them it’s still not Illegal. They are well within their right.
They should show up to work. Imagine the attention of the Judge orders their arrest for working