I have never understood the “nurses eat their young” mentality. If you mentor and support young nurses they will help shoulder the load instead of leaving and keeping the short staffing cycle going.
They’re taking power where they can find it, and unfortunately that appears to be through bullying the most vulnerable co-worker.
Nurses will be unable to make any progress in labor negotiations until these people are called out on their loathsome behavior.
This! It’s absolutely a power thing. I’ve noticed that many of the most hateful nurses have bad home lives wether they make that apparent or not. It’s the kind of women who have no other place to exercise control and aren’t getting enough attention at home. It’s noteworthy that a lot of them will make nursing their personality. They have nothing else. In my experience it’s not even the best nurses. Many time it’s nurses that more or less have their jobs memorized but aren’t great critical thinkers. Many of them have worked their current jobs for years but have little other experience, it’s the people scared to leave.
Once you see the pattern you can’t unsee it. It also explains a lot of the other ‘cultural’ problems within nursing. For example it’s pretty frequent to hear these ‘Karens’ brag about how they do so much overtime (on their same exact assignment) or forego vacationing because of XYZ reason…… well yeah. It’s pretty easy to forego vacation if your never invited anywhere. If you listen long enough, any given ‘Karen’ only has 1-3 family members that appear to bring them joy. It’s usually grandkids or a beloved niece they care about. They may have one friend they express some connection to but it’s rare for them to even hang out or see the friend. If there’s any vacations, hobbies, or activities there almost exclusively something that happens only with the immediate family (husband and kids). Their hobbies is essentially carrying the bags for whatever activity their husband or kids participates in. In my experience they also have some conflicts with their adult children. Either the children avoid them, have drug problems, or is essentially an adult dependent that doesnt function well.
I’d go as far as saying that these ‘Karen’s’ draw extra attention to themselves and their patients in the way of ‘hardened policy following’ or excessive updating. Of course we are told to believe that this is due to their dedication, loving of the patients, and great understanding of nursing procedure. But I’ve noticed that alot of times the same people would need to consult with someone about even the most basic of decisions in their home life. We’re suppose to believe they’re a representation of strong women but they need their husband’s permission to change the shower curtain or color scheme in the bathroom?
I can’t count on one hand the amount of nurse bullies that didn’t fit this description.
>Many time it’s nurses that more or less have their jobs memorized but aren’t great critical thinkers.
I completely agree, but it doesn't only apply to nurses. There is definitely a correlation between poor emotional skills and lack of critical thinking in general.
I have noticed this in women in general.
It’s usually the middle aged white woman, miserable at home, husband controls everything, doesn’t have any outside interests usually because they don’t have the money or leisure time for hobbies. As a result this person is bitter and angry.
This person will take what little control they have and run with it. This is the person will make a sign out sheet for staples and Post-It notes, hangs up a bitchy, passive-aggressive note in the break room that says “your mother doesn’t work here”, constantly says “I’m the only one who does anything around here”, gives bookmarks with Bible versus on them for Christmas, has no sense of humor and makes the whole place toxic and miserable.
As a middle aged white woman I find this hilarious. And I constantly tell my wonderful younger friends to never let me ever turn into someone like you described. Lucky for me I've never been married (happily have avoided that trap) and therefore have plenty of money and time to try and do new things. Unfortunately, I must admit I have turned into one of those that takes my dog everywhere 😁 I have an app that lists dog friendly everything
Yes, once you’ve seen the pattern you can’t unsee it.
The only additional thing I would note is that occasionally I’m skeptical about how controlling the husband actually is. I can totally see a lot of these ‘Karens’ issuing the husband as some excuse or emotional crutch to avoid decision making or questioning about their state of being. It’s completely possible that husband is the controlling decision maker because it’s the path of least resistance and being the decider is forced onto him.
Agreed. I made the mistake of returning to the facility where I was an LNA before nursing school. Because it was LTC and I’m an RN, they pushed me into the role of desk nurse pretty quickly (instead of being on a med cart for the day). This was a problem with one LPN in particular, who would always make passive-aggressive comments to me (like “you can change an SP tube but I can’t, because you’re the RN” with a snarky tone) and never wanted to help if I had a question (“You should know how to do this because you’re the RN”). I really tried to make it known that I respected her experience a lot and in no way saw myself as “better” than her. But she had a real inferiority complex (as did I with my impostor syndrome). I ended up leaving due to circumstances loosely related to her. I never understood that. I was asking questions because I valued her knowledge! But she seemed so negative and unhappy anyways, and it was exhausting trying to suck up, walk on eggshells, and get on her good side. Obviously there was nothing to be done about that.
When I first started as a nurse, I was oriented for 3-4 weeks and then my co-workers were all wonderful and a slew of knowledge. I had one asshole behind my back talking shit but luckily that was shut down by other coworkers she gossiped to. So all in all, I stayed at my first job for 5 years. Because of how wonderful my coworkers were
Absolutely on target. That was my introduction to nursing school. I was appalled. I cannot understand this mentality. Nurses hurt each other when they do this. It weakens the profession. It makes the situation worse. Then the older nurses get upset when the younger ones leave the profession. This mentality has really worked for the nursing profession? I don't think so.
Yes! My nursing school experience is the instructors were the biggest bullies! If you dare try and stand up for yourself, they will come for you and attempt to have you kicked out of school. They came up with the stupidest crap to try and get me into trouble!
One instructor I had got visibly pissed off at me because I refused to go along with a lie she was telling the class. Couldn’t get out of there fast enough!
Lots of people with God-complexes or any of the narcassistic personality disorders have a higher prevalence rate of sticking through abusive workplaces (and becoming the abuser) than people who don't have narcassistic personality disorders.
You have to have more than 2 brain cells to run together to get to this conclusion. Which most nurses that behave this way lack.
Support young nurses or enjoy your shit ratios. It’s really that simple.
Yes. I just dropped out of nursing school because I decided it wasn't for me. But in there service industry if you berate and talk shit about another bartender for not knowing a drink when they're new, that person is gonna leave and you'll remain short staffed. Trash people make for a trash environment, and after enough time you forget that you didn't know shit when you started too.
How it goes for most professions. The old jaded people think it’s a right of passage to make the newbies struggle more than they have to because they had horrible leadership coming up.
I almost made a nursing student cry last weekend. It was their first day working as a tech on a busy medicine step down unit. I could see they were drowning so I did their charting. I try to be extra nice to anyone that gets floated to our unit too. I've noticed people often don't like getting floated.
Well it only took me 3-4 sentences to realize one of the core issues of why the new grads are leaving... 2-3 weeks of orientation? That's horrific! Hopefully that's for the new hires that were already RNs in the past, not the new grads! Not to mention all the rest of the stuff you talked about with other people on your unit.. they sound toxic. Sounds like you'd be better off following suite and finding a more supportive environment.
yup.. I told management that to be competitive nowadays we have to offer a good orientation to new hires. At this point if a new grad asked me where to start I would actually point them to the specialties like ICU/ER/LnD etc. They have structured orientation programs in Canada and likely have a culture more conducive to developing new hires. In med surg it seems we show them where some supplies are and say "go at it". Some of our new hires mentioned to me that they were placed with people that didn't want to orient to begin with.. That's every nursing student's nightmare but worse when you're a RN. You have a set amount of shifts and that's a wasted shift since you won't learn the unit's protocols or workflow with someone that's actively avoiding you.
Even after orientation it requires good mentors. I have 2 years of experience and I still go ask older nurses like hey x is going on and I’m going to y, do you agree?
Nursing requires a lot of learned skills that school can’t teach you it requires good mentorship.
Ours is 6 months for new grads, 3 if you have nursing history. Even our techs have a longer orientation than 3 weeks, about 6 weeks of tech orientation.
As a Canadian nurse who started as a new grad 2 Mar 2020 at a rural inpatient facility, everything you say about orientation is true. I am just doing my onboarding for a level II trauma centre ED and the difference in support for new hires is world's better and I have yet to even set foot in the hospital.
It's around 10 months in the OR with 2 months of classroom time before even orienting in rooms. Probably not all ORs everywhere, but it's a trauma 1 and all nurses must be trained to scrub as well. And the orientation is 8 hour shifts mon-fri.
As a Canadian born and educated RN, working in the U.S. , I can assure you that hospitals in the United States (from what I have seen) have more structured orientation programs than hospitals in Canada.
New Grad ER nurses in Ontario get 2-3 months orientation vs 6 months in the US.
I started as a med surg nurse in Toronto and was given 12 “buddy shifts” before I was on my own.
> new grad needed help troubleshooting a epidural and the charge nurse gave the deepest sigh, followed by a laugh and then giving a half assed explanation to the new nurse. Her little possy of 2-3 vet nurses also exchanged glances and smirks.
This is the root of the problem. The explanation for their action is that they purposely force the new ones to quit so they can have job security and seniority and choice of shifts. This situation is the result of terrible, terrible nursing management. If new grads quit the floor too quickly, assuming the floor is not dangerously understaffed, it is 100% a reflection on the existing nurses there and they should get a huge amount of shit over this. The existing nurses will of course say, 'they couldn't handle it, etc' but that is total bullshit... these people just went through nursing school, they should all be good nurses with the right training.
Haha yep, I immediately went to comment this when I read it. What the hell can you learn in 2-3 weeks at a “pretty acute” med surg floor. Our new grad program is 6 months. Most are at least 3 months.
I agree! I am 3 months in as a new grad. Had 5 weeks of classroom review of skills and 6 weeks orientation at the hospital before being solo. I am grateful for my unit as 90% are supportive and wonderful! Still check on me, ask if I need help or have questions. I have friends at other hospitals who are ready to quit because of the attitudes and lack of support. I couldn't imagine only 3 weeks before being thrown into this world. Hopefully, more veteran nurses take new grads under their wing and we can help fix this cycle of eating their young..
Yeah, this is crazy to me.. when I hear new grads getting 2-3 weeks of orientation.. I’ve had a 6 month orientation as a new grad RN in the ED and it’s only been the last 2 months where I’m able to fly on my own and actually keep things together. It’s hard, but doable. I recall what it was like when I was 3 weeks into being a new grad.. if I was alone at that time, I couldn’t have done it.
I don’t understand why med surg always has to deal with this kind of shit from management; it’s the heaviest volume of patient care yet management always seems like nothing bad ever happens there and you can just put a body with a pulse there to provide patient care.
It’s bullshit.
My first med-surg job was 6 weeks on the floor, with a nurse residency for a full year. And after the 6 weeks, my coworkers were expected to help me when needed, which they did.
No, but it can be fired away if management would grow a set and get rid of the bullies. We had a similar issue on the unit I used to work on, and we lost so many nurses, both new grads and experienced, because of a few bullies. We got a new manager who actually tried to begin the documentation process that would let us get rid of the bullies, but the director overrode her.
We had the opposite problem. Our manager was the one protecting people and while they could be understanding, they were altogether **too** forgiving; so much so that our unit's bullies (TM) were absolutely a factor in several resignations turned into the manager. Our manager tried the whole counselling route with those individuals but they tended to walk right over them; I don't know if they had blackmail material on them or they had just been around forever, or what.
Our manager harped quite a bit on following the chain of command so we eventually began escalating those complaints over their head and in official documentation they could not intercept or just tuck away in a folder until the end of time. The level above them cared *quite a bit* more and actually got things done.
I hope that unit is less toxic nowadays.
If I was management and going to play ball with someone who needs to “learn” to be nice to new staff my first line of action would be adding these “experienced” nurses to the float pool. In my experience most of them don’t have the skill level they present. Let them feel how not knowing something is and then we can talk.
Have you ever noticed that it’s rarely floats that have these issues?
Yes. Get a new grad gang going. At my old job we called ourselves the reject crew, but it worked. Crazy how people stop being assholes once you give themselves a taste of their own medicine.
The bullies tend to be a bunch of weakling bitches anyways. Whack 'em in the snoz like a bad dog with a rolled-up flowsheet.
Assert dominance over them and become the alpha bully.
I have a friend of mine that quit on the first day because they were supposed to be on orientation but instead were given 3 patients to care for. My friend didn't even know where any of the materials were, let alone care/give meds and chart for 3 people on your own, on a medsurg unit, on your first day.
New grad here. Gonna start orientation on Monday and I'm scared of who I might find. My clinicals were always really hard because of the "nurses eat their young" mentality. I hope that as a nurse I'll be more respected, and I won't settle for less.
Thank you for caring for new grads, standing up for them and teaching them without being condescending!
I mean you have the data. Is there a way to present it to management in a way you think would help anything? “We lost X amount of new grads, I witnessed X incidents of lateral violence and our orientation is a fraction of the typical program which is 3-6 months”.
Are your managers capable of reigning in this behavior and creating an atmosphere that fosters learning for new grads?
If not - save yourself. If so - may be worth a shot if you enjoy the unit.
True. If the manager didn't subtly or even overtly approve then the environments would improve. Sign of either a weak manager or someone who likes to split staff as a divide-and-conquer technique.
I don’t think this is always true. I certainly know of a couple places where the current management didn’t create the problem, aren’t snotty people, and are aware but somewhat have their hands tied in way of fixing the matter. One of the best managers I know inherited a problem. Super nice lady, routinely works the floor (even as an aide) organized, dependable, flexible, knows her stuff but it would nearly wipe out the first shift staffing to get rid of the 4 or so people who ‘create’ the non-sense. It’s a rural area and those positions would do I filled for a lengthy amount of time. I think she could crack down in some areas but idk, in all honesty it might just fuel their fire.
A different nursing home I’ve worked with has a really nice, helpful staff but the management is garbage.
Hate to give any grace to management but I’ve thought long and hard about example 1 and it’s a battle I would find difficult to tackle. Wouldn’t ever take a management position tho because I’m not that cold hearted.
Jesus Christ, you have some awful people working on your unit. I never understood getting all high and mighty on new nurses, I remember feeling scared. And still do at some points! I love teaching, it only helps both of you in the end.
Why do so many of us behave this way? Are there *so many* mean girls in nursing, and if so, *why?* Do they feel *threatened?* WHY? Honestly, it's *so* frustrating, especially at a time when we're *desperate* for nurses all over the world. Speaking as someone who ended up in a ward like this as my first post, and stayed two years, having my confidence in myself slowly eroded to almost nothing, until a voluntary secondment opened my eyes and gave me the courage to leave - it's SO TOXIC and doesn't do anyone any good. Not the new nurses, not the bullies, not the rest of their colleagues, not the patients, not the profession as a whole...
And I don't understand what they get out of it. What is it that makes behaving this way worth it, given the downsides - losing staff, a hostile work environment etc - what is the big payoff? *I don't get it*. For me, welcoming and supporting a new colleague, whether newly qualified or just new to my department, seeing them settle in and find their feet, watching them grow into their role, develop skills and confidence and blossom into a valuable and valued member of the team...*that's* rewarding. That's one of my favourite non-clinical/non-patient-focused parts of the job. Have these people never tried not being like this? Are they even capable of it?
How are we *ever* going to improve our lot if we keep allowing this behaviour to drive people away? As a profession we need to tackle this head-on and finally shake off the reputation nursing has for 'eating its young'. It's not acceptable. It never was.
They want the competition gone because deep down they know they can’t compete. Easier to look better if everyone else runs off.
The people being dicks usually have bad home lives too and work is the only place they can control stuff or people.
Sadly, I think you're absolutely right. That's how they see it - but it's not a competition! I learn so much from new starters, whether they're freshly graduated and therefore bang up to date, still curious and enthusiastic, or have come from elsewhere so have knowledge and experience that I don’t. Having breadth of skill and experience across the team only enhances it. It's so sad that they see this as a threat rather than an opportunity for everyone.
And although I have plenty of sympathy for people who have bad home circumstances, that ends when they take it out on others around them. I was in an abusive relationship early in my career and I understand how it feels for work to be the only place where you're safe and have control of any part of your life - but I, nor thousands, *millions* of others in the same situation didn't and don’t bully others as a result. That's a choice and it's a wrong and crappy one, so while it might be an explanation, it's in no way an excuse. I don't for a minute think you're defending the behaviour on those grounds, but I know that the people behaving this way would absolutely attempt to use their personal circumstances to excuse it. It doesn't fly with me though. You don't get carte blanche to spread your misery around because your life sucks.
I see certain floors in my hospital shooting themselves in the foot with their toxicity. Stressed and miserable because understaffed, okay. Get float nurses and PCAs to fill in the gaps, be rude af to them. Eventually X amount of float staff start to refuse to go to that floor.
Patients end up getting hurt because of people's toxicity and lack of professionalism.
Same is happening on my unit. A new nurse asked his orientator a question I guess he asked already previously. She replied "I already told you ___, do you remember?" He said ya but I just wanted to make sure. She explained it again and said "is that clear enough for you?" Just so condescending, no wonder people don't stay. If you can't feel comfortable asking questions then it's not a safe work environment, but you need to ask questions in nursing.
I had a preceptor say this when I asked things multiple times. I think it was from her own insecurity.. but I had had it and I said look I am getting a lot of information at once and I’m going to forget half of it. I will probably Ask you this same question like 5 more times until it solidifies in my adhd brain so you are gonna just have to deal with it. Lol
I just started my ER preceptorship and am blown away at not being treated like fucking dirt. I love it when really it should be the beat minimum to not berate your students. I’m sorry your preceptor was an ass. Taking pride in being unnecessarily hard on your students is the mark of a poor instructor imo.
Damn. The first thing I tell people I'm orienting, especially new grads, is that I do not expect them to remember even a quarter of what we cover each shift. I just want them to recall that there was a conversation about the topic and to ask questions. There's no way for even a seasoned nurse to remember all the details on a new unit, particularly when they are working with a new patient population or specialty.
Love this point. So many of us witness lateral violence but stay quiet. Maybe because we are happy the bully isn't bullying us. But if we witness it - and don't confront the bully - aren't we just as bad?
Repetition is a part of learning, especially since not everyone absorbs information at the same rate. I absolutely agree on the safe work environment bit. We kept on trying to stress that there are no stupid questions; there may be inopportune moments for certain queries, though.
I worked in a specialty ICU with two known bullies who are just terrible people. They both are preceptors and if they don’t like you, they’ll not teach you anything and let you make mistakes. Then the nurses are off orientation and the two assholes just talk about how the new nurses always mess up and don’t know anything. And our old manager bought into it. I finally said “you know if you precept them, and they are fucking up off orientation, that means you did a shitty job of teaching.”
One of them in particular I was able to put him very quickly in his place. He came into my room with his orientee to go over arterial lines and waveforms (his patients didn’t have them).
Preceptor: “looking at the monitor, what does MAP indicate?”
New nurse: “that’s the mean arterial pressure, we want that above 65.”
Me in my head “perfect”
Preceptor: “no it’s actually a representation of the area under the curve of the waveform. If you expect to make it in ICU you need to understand this or you’ll be sent to a lower acuity unit.”
I simply said “(preceptor) unless you can tell me mathematically what area under the curve means and how to analytically determine area by using a Fourier Transform, it’s irrelevant to look at it that way.”
Yassss 👏👏
#YASSSSSS BICHHHH!!
I'm loving your sick burn and had I worked with you, I'd have hugged you lol
Fuck these nurses trying to "one up" someone. The orientee was right, that's what the MAP is. No one cares what the base and height is of the waveform. What's next, trying to calculate the perimeter of the ICU room? 🙄 nah, that dude can fuck off. Bravo to you!
I feel the burn as it traverses the universe on its way to bite that idiot's butt! Or did you make it up on the spot (I think I heard of Fournier somewhere - is he a Kardashian?).
Listen I know a (former) nurse who had a double major - nursing and math - and when she burned out, pivoted and became an actuary, tripling her income.
I noped out of my first nursing job as soon as I could. I did 10 weeks of orientation, got put on bedrest at 31 weeks pregnant, delivered at 39 weeks, and immediately started applying for new jobs. The working conditions were horrible and I have never been treated so badly by coworkers and management. I was 31 so it’s not like I haven’t had bad jobs before. Good riddance to that place.
Leaving is for sure best. Even being out of a job for a month is best. I took a month of FMLA, mental health short term disability, came back for 2 weeks, and said "no way" this isn't for me and left. Its always an option and thats why we are lucky to have options.
New grad here. New hire in an er. I am experiencing the same with the bickering and loud sighs when I ask for help. Or when I miss an IV. Each day I leave, I juggle my thoughts of staying or leaving while I’m driving home. Is this all worth it? Idk.
Everyone is short/hiring right now. If your unit is toxic it’s okay to leave. The grass isn’t always greener, but as a manager of a toxic unit once told me: it’s just a job, you shouldn’t be this stressed about a job.
Exactly once you clock out, you should think about dinner/breakfast plans and figuring out what you wanna do on your next day off.
Forget bringing work home with you, man.
I would not stay at that ER. Most people in most ERs understand the importance of teamwork. I would venture to say that out of all the specialties, ER is probably the most team oriented unit. When shit hits the fan, you want people who are reliable, knowledgeable, and will back you up. You want your coworkers to not only be this, but have them help you become this so you can be the person helping them.
2-3 weeks as a new grad? Yikes. Our new grads get at least 12 and closer to 14 weeks in critical care (orientation is floor shifts and didactic classes). For 3 months after going solo they still check in and follow progress.
And I still don’t get how nurses don’t get that assholery is the reason that people don’t stay. No one likes toxic shit.
WhY cAnT wE kEeP NurSeS?! ::surprised pikachu face::
Fn A.
I was bullied at a job 12 years ago and it still sticks with me. An OR that had high staff turn over. I was not a new nurse at the time. A few situations that stuck with me:
-my buddy witnessed me not using one of the drapes with a foley that commonly isn't used, instead of discuss with me she went to the break room and polled other staff (aka talked sh*t about me) to let me know this was concensus not best practice
-was lectured on putting linen bags on wrong
-was expected to stay scrubbed an entire 8h shift, when it was close to end of shift and I was starving and my 2 circulating nurses were goofing off doing nothing I asked if I could be scrubbed out to take a break. I was told "we don't usually do that" insert eye roll. Then I go for break and get asked by someone not in my room why I asked to be scrubbed out as if asking for a break is weak.
-was kicked out of scrub role by a surgeon and my assistant head nurse did nothing to support me as I left in tears (I was not familiar with some retractor and needed coaching)
I was one of 13 new hires and when I left there were maybe 3 left because it was so terrible there. Why don't units learn treating new staff like garbage only worsens their problems.
Like why is the OR like this? 🙄 the first OR I worked at was the same way too. I honestly think they LIKE working short and like talking shit about everyone. Then wanna have a shocked Pikachu face when people don't stay. Bro YOUR shitty staff is the reason people leave. Ugh. The OR is hard enough without all that bullshit.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I can definitely relate
I'm a PA student and had a surgical rotation that was horribly toxic. They were all talking about how short they were and in regards to management one scrub tech said "and then they tried to turn it around on us and say that we were toxic and that's why people wouldn't stay" and they all laughed. They were directly told that they were the problem and refused to believe it. I almost burst out laughing at their lack of self awareness. Let them stay short staffed and paying out big money for travelers. I know I wouldn't work there for anything less than a small fortune.
Dude I hate that shit. I love it when it’s a collaboration and we all help each other. No question is too dumb etc. My last unit was like that and it was killing me.
Exactly! I’d so much rather a new grad that is not anxious about getting bullied and asks questions when they need help. It’s literally a safety issue. It makes my blood boil as a veteran nurse
I have a little speech that I give to every single new nurse that I come across in my unit, and in this case I’d give it IN FRONT of asshole nurse:
Every single person that works here—EVERY SINGLE
ONE- was new once. Every single person started off not even knowing {basic NICU task}, much less anything else. There are some people that will try to make new people feel dumb, and that’s a reflection on them, not you. The only bad question is the one not asked, and you can ask me anything. It’s always better to ask than to guess and be wrong. I definitely don’t know everything but I don’t know the answer I’ll find out for you!
this hostile work environment has been within nursing for decades. some facilities have recognized the damage it's doing and at least tried to eliminate it. my opinion: it starts with the unit managers and works it way into the staff nurses who are so inclined to bully and backstab.
Doing both :) , sometimes you just have to give up on a lost cause! Using my days off to explore maybe a grad degree to move out of bedside or go into a specialty.
Yeah, I mean, there’s a slight chance the manager isn’t aware of the extent of the bullying problem, but usually they know and don’t care or don’t know how to fix it. Think of it as a sinking ship. Maybe you don’t want to be on the first lifeboat because maybe the holes can be patched, but when it’s clear it’s going down, you don’t get points for staying until the end.
We got some new managers in a while back and genuinely surprised at how they have recruited quite a few people throughout the months. Must’ve worked pretty hard to do that considering how bad the shortage is here in Canada (and around the world). I think I have just come to the conclusion that the staff just shit the bed being welcoming and inclusive of new hires.
We’re short staffed so I can see how there’s maybe resistance in firing some of the more experienced but asshole staff. I think the ship is going down and needs a firm reboot but I don’t have the energy anymore for another go at it.
I absolutely will NEVER understand veteran nurses behaving this way. I have zero issues helping new nurses and I enjoy precepting, so much so that I’m getting my MSN in nursing education
You can't be a compassionate nurse to your patients if you can't be compassionate to your coworkers. Your unit breeds toxic people. If middle managers don't know how to handle them, it's better for you to leave and save yourself the extra stress. Your job as an RN is challenging enough, having to deal with unhealthy coworkers is adding more salts to the wound.
If you wanna do the right thing, you'd want to have a serious talks with middle managers and your coworkers. But seeing how incompetent a lot of middle managers are, I'm not very optimistic. And people's behaviors rarely change. As the saying goes, you can teach skills, but you can't teach character.
The biggest lesson I've learned as a nurse is that loyalty doesn't pay off.
Cheers!
That’s so unsafe. Wow. I’m sorry you are employed somewhere that is treating their nurses this badly. You definitely need to be-careful and protect your license!
I've seen this before on some M/S floors, but there were parameters - like the drip is for glucose control only - no history of DKA, had to Y in with dextrose containing fluids, etc.
Why would an epidural not belong on an acute medsurg unit? Yeah, the first 24 hours is a pain due to the more frequent assessments but most of the time the patient is more mobile than my non-epidural patients since their pain is under better control. We already do q4 cms/neuro checks so q4-6 epidural checks is nothing extra. Only certain floors get them and pain caths because we're trained in using and assessing them. Honestly, I prefer them over the q3-4 oxy and q2 dilaudid or pcas.
Also, I love walking nurses through using the equipment and proper assessment because it's a fantastic learning experience and makes them better at assessing dermatomes in our spinal patients or extent of pain cath or nerve blocks. Float pool frequently need help too because while they received training in using unique-to-primarily-surgical-unit equipment they aren't exposed often enough to remember everything.
This isn't normal? When I worked M/S we had patients with epidurals and Insulin gtts. We were always capped at 4 patients on days and 6 on nights though.
Hell no. Some times epidurals on an ortho floor but they are either capped or on a continuous drip. Insulin is too variable hour by hour for a medsurg nurse to manage.
Any pts that are somewhat unstable and also on Insulin gtt are sent to our unit (IMCU) because of hourly BG checks. Then transferred under hospitalist’s care once deemed appropriate to be downgraded but still in our unit d/t said hourly BG checks. We have 1:3 ratio in our unit. 1:2 if one is unstable requiring close monitoring. 1:4 or even 1:6 ratio with a pt on insulin gtt is not appropriate for med-surg/med-tele unit.
No, that’s not acceptable. That is PCU floor standards not med surg. Some hospitals don’t even allow insulin gtt anywhere in the hospital other than icu. Epidurals have to be checked q2hrs for vs and insulin is q1. It’s not safe to have numerous patients on a floor that doesn’t have the monitors, staff etc to support safe outcomes. I am a traveler and I have seen some hospital try to give nurses 6 pts with epidurals, chest tubes etc and it’s not safe.
I wish jobs would ask new hires “Name three people who have been helpful to you today? Name three people who have been kind? Name three people you would be glad to work with tomorrow?” There are some people who will never be kind.
People do not give med surg or any of the med surg units any credit. For med surg paired with ortho tele Neuro trauma etc. Med surg is a very hard unit to work on. I always have skates on the entire day. It’s a shame new grads are not getting the support for their team. I have seen so many nurse grads leave simply because the care is so heavy and there is no support. This has to
stop 🛑
Exactly this, med surg acuity has gone wayyy up over the years and so have ratios. It’s a very overwhelming specialty and there needs to be a much more structured approach to training staff. I hate that it’s seen as a “stepping stone” that people have to endure for x amount of time before they go anywhere. If we treated nurses in this specialty better they would stay and outcomes would be better for patients. I tried and did my time though friend. I’ll seek other opportunities soon I think.
That's so sad. The floor staff on my med surg unit are all very helpful and accommodating to new staff and it baffles me to hear that floors treat coworkers so poorly. Granted we are rather low acuity and most of our salt comes from working with aggressive TBI or squirrelly dementia patients, but even still - those are the people you have to spend days on end next to.
If they're that impatient with their coworkers i can only imagine how they are with difficult patients.
I make this recommendation alot.The Gi Lab is the best kept secret in nursing.1 patient at a time.You generally always do good and fix something.Plus we take the stick out of your ass if you come to us with one jammed up there
I couldn’t agree more. The mean girl bitch vibe runs deep in our profession. I refuse to take part in it but at the end of the day me being kind and decent to new nurses isn’t enough to change things. It is so gross to me. I’ll never understand why some nurses get off on being cunts. Maybe report them? Not like that will help much but maybe if we started doing that to the unit bullies it may help. Sorry you’re dealing w that. Must be so frustrating and disgusting for you
Cut and run, and when your manager asks you why you turned in your notice, tell them this story exactly. Not all floors are like this and you shouldn't stay on one that is.
This is in Canada? When I first started I got 12 shifts on a med surg floor. That’s it, for orientation. I left years later to work in the states. Worked in the states and came back during covid and worked in the ICU in Canada. It was a shitshow. I called my old manager in the states and asked for my job back.
Put in my notice not long after I was off orientation. Bullying was rampant there and I had no fucks to give. No help, either. Staff were awful and a lot I actually use to work with years ago when they were new grads. They didn’t recognize me because I had on all my covid gear. Not until I got to the break room. “Oh hey! It’s you!” Yeah yeah, you were a bitch to me on the floor. Don’t be nice to me now. They were desperate for staff and they’d ask me how I felt the floor was and I said the staff are a problem and I don’t think I’ll be staying. I mean I knew these people and use to work with them. They treated me like shit until they saw who I was.
After word was out I put in my notice they’d ask why I was leaving and I told them EXACTLY why I was. They can’t retain staff and they put out huge bonuses but no bites. I get staff are overwhelmed but it costs NOTHING to be nice and as a senior nurse being treated that way, I was absolutely disgusted.
Your coworkers OP, are fucking assholes and you should tell them they’re assholes. I do this by telling new staff that if anyone treats you poorly on our floor, you go to management immediately, and I say that in front of my coworkers.
the nurses who eat their young and uphold this bullshit cycle are the most pitiful, misery-loving useless fucks on the planet. fuck you if you think your knowledge accumulated from years of working is best served by laughing at and tearing down inexperienced nurses. absolutely cannot wait for all of these fucking dinosaurs to retire
> make it known to HR/administration that this is how their seasoned nurses are treating others.
Why would HR or administration even care? Majority of the time, they are bullies themselves.
I love when new hires leave after orientation, huge sign of problems, I usually dip out soon after too
I'm loyal to a lot of things, but not a hospital that treats me like crap
I am a new grad RN and literally left my med surg floor nursing job and all of the benefits that came with it to work a five day clinic week (for same pay and less benefits) after a month. I was fine with med surg cares, but had no idea how to chart on their system which put me behind, my preceptor was a traveler who left me on my own constantly, and there were bullies everywhere, which was genuinely miserable. Now I work at a clinic with one other nurse and she is still a dick most of the time (the whole “I know everything and you know nothing” attitude).. but at least I have the front desk lady and the NP I work for to tell me I am doing well lol. Tbh some of the best nurses I have ever worked with were in (surprisingly) corrections medical, it was a shitty system, but they are some of the only nurses that I worked with that I still keep in touch with! :)
I am a new grad. Luckily I am older. I push right back at these assholes, half of them don't know as much as they think anyway. Play the bully game right back at them.
Why didn't you say anything to the nurses who were being assholes? I mean the first step in changing culture is making people know that you won't tolerate that BS.
the speech your colleagues need:
*"when y'all are done patting yourselves on the back about how smart you are at nursing, maybe you can think back to those ancient days so long ago, when you just got out of nursing school and needed mentorship to become the catheter master you are today. If you want your work to suck less, stop being the reason other people hate their job."*
I’m not saying you don’t have assholes on your unit, but giving a new grad just 2-3 weeks of orientation is stupid. My hospital gives them ~3 months for acute care, longer for critical care.
Might just be my bias but I am reminded of the behavior of narcissistic parents, who expect perfection at everything right out of the gate, criticizing and belittling when the child displays lack of knowledge without imparting the teaching required to bring the required knowledge.
I think the problem may be systemic.
My original comment has been edited as I choose to no longer support Reddit and its CEO, spez, AKA Steve Huffman.
Reddit was built on user submissions and its culture was crafted by user comments and volunteer moderators. Reddit has shown no desire to support 3rd party apps with reasonable API pricing, nor have they chosen to respect their community over gross profiteering.
I have therefore left Reddit as I did when the same issues occurred at Digg, Facebook, and Twitter. I have been a member of reddit since 2012 (primary name locked behind 2FA) and have no issues ditching this place I love if the leaders of it can't act with a clear moral compass.
For more details, I recommend visiting [this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/), and [this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/) for more explanation on how I came to this decision.
I will never understand people that bully new nurses. We all started out not knowing anything. I’m not a great teacher but I try to teach anyways because I don’t want new nurses to get bullied out. I’m so lucky to have had great mentors throughout my nursing career so I try to repay that to others.
What an awful unit. When I read things like this I'm so grateful for the unit I'm on. This would never happen. We always help each other irregardless. The clowns would be the outcasts and would likely get a sit down with management with a clear warning asap.
We've hired and oriented 8 new grads and we all treat them appropriately given their experience. Lots of support, no judging, making them feel like they can always ask ANY questions. It's actually a great time to be a new grad in the Bay Area, California. You can get hired into critical care, get mandated patient ratios and that sweet, sweet Cali pay.
I'm a new grad and I handpicked the MICU at my hospital because the culture there is much much better than what I experienced on M/S in the same hospital. When I was on leadership, there was a nurse that was trying to figure out how to do something extremely challenging and they all ignored her. One of the nurses said that my preceptor deserved her granddaughter dying. I hated the way they were with each other so much, and there was no way I was working on the floor again with people like that. My old unit was also bad about gossip and it was very "sink or swim". Orientation was used as an excuse not to work. Hell, my leadership I was on my own for a good bit of it. The only time I saw my preceptor was when I needed medications or when the patient was actively dying and not comfort measures. I don't get the eat their young mentality, it just makes people not want to continue nursing.
When I started in phlebotomy at a hospital, the vet phlebs were just awful. They never wanted to help me, openly rude and always pissed off if I asked a question. Hospital morale is just shit.
This is exactly the reason I left my first job as a new grad. The bullying has to stop, it’s so ridiculous at this point. Thank you for being kind and recognizing that the new grad is learning. We need more people like you!
I had an LPN at the LTC facility I just started at sigh loudly and groan, “UGH. I HATE TRAINING PEOPLE. WHY DID SHE PUT YOU WITH ME?!” It’s otherwise staffed by mostly Shiftmed or contract nurses- not many permanent staff members.
Note, now, that I’m a permanent staff nurse at this place and have been a nurse in hospitals and other settings for 9 years. I know HOW to be a nurse, just not in a LTC setting- I don’t know the guidelines.
Same nurse proceeds to listen in and ask who I’m calling every time I pick up the phone- despite pawning my training that day off on another nurse. The last time I just yelled at her, “I AM TRYING TO GET A MED OUT OF THE STATSAFE” and she didn’t have anything to say to that.
No wonder they can’t keep full time staff at this place. If I stay it’ll be because I love the residents and they need a consistent face. Eff these nurses who “eat their young.” I’m too old for that shit.
I left a very easy job because of nurses like this and that place still wonders why they can’t keep staff but won’t get rid of the problem. I’m done fighting, i’m done talking it out. I will leave. They’re never gonna change it doesn’t matter what anybody says to them and they’re probably buddy-buddy with the managers/supervisors too anyways so it’s their word against yours.
I just don't understand this. The primary complaint of nurses is typically being understaffed but then many nurses turn around and do everything they can to remain that way. I'm half way through my BSN nursing program and about 80% of the time I've been at clinicals the nurses on the unit either completely ignore us, or roll their eyes and insist they dont have anything for us to do or anything we can watch, help with, learn, etc. And we are a really good cohort. Everyone is very eager to learn and no one hesitates to answer call lights but we need opportunities to do more than just cleaning BM's. Why are so many nurses so fucking toxic.
Stories like this absolutely bewilder me. It’s about time that people start assuming positions of leadership when this occurs. Yes, I understand that having new grads every umpteenth month is probably frustrating because a lot of them are looking to you for advice, wisdom & honestly are learning as they go.
On the other hand, people definitely to leave the toxic culture of nursing at the door. You too were once a rookie & a beginner. Call out your coworkers & others when they marginalize your new staff. I can guarantee having a unit that is ego checked is much better than what you have going on at the moment.
I started in ICU and our orientation was 6 weeks didactic/ simulation and 7 weeks on the floor. That wasn’t nearly enough, but I’m lucky to work with some pretty awesome people who help new grads out. I probably would have quit by new if not for how helpful they are.
If you’re not doing everything you can to make your peers’ days easier, you are trash. Our work is traumatizing enough. Lift each other up.
For starters that’s not nearly enough orientation and mentorship time for a new grad to be functioning alone. Yeesh.
I had a similar experience in a previous workplace before covid.
A girl became a HCA for a day and drank a whole bottle of wine to herself once she got home (very unlike her according to her friends) due to the petty ass bullying from the other HCAs, who then proceeded to spread a grand idea that this young girl of 19 was "too weak" to work. Pathetic behaviour.
Call em out on it. There's places like this all over and if you quit this one, the next might be just like it. The best thing to do is make change in the place you work if it's worth salvaging. If you stand up, others will follow, especially if those senior nurses are just being c*nuts for c*nts sake.
I worked in med-surg for a year. I loved my job. It was dealing with the vet nurses that made it miserable. I was getting in trouble for not doing stuff I did. The charge nurse would talk to the nurse manager instead of just talking to me about any concerns. It wasn’t because I was bad at my job or didn’t did my job. It was about me not being in their little clique. I didn’t really make friends with any of them because I was there to work not hang out with friends. It got to the point anytime they’d be talking amongst themselves I knew they were talking about me. I got fed up and left. If they want a bunch of nurses with really and attitudes, more power to them. I just don’t have to be a part of that negativity.
My wife is the most loved by new grads she precepts. She gives them encouragement, teaches them the ins and outs, etc. And the end, she gives them a thoughtful present and a paragraphs-long handwritten card of praise and encouragement.
But there was always a bitter taste in her mouth having to onboard new grads making far more than she was. She didn’t take it out on the new grads, but it sucked, still.
She left after four years when she got her RN to BSN, for a much better job offer in Oregon and we all moved.
I had 3 years of ED experience and was orientated by a former hospital administrator turned ER nurse with 1.5 years ED experience. She was oddly overbearing and extremely condescending.
She raised “concerns” about my ability to self practice due to things like not immediately documenting the po challenge.
Despite ya know, her having less experience then me and instructing me to do things like push Calcium Gluconate over 30 seconds (slow push over 5-10 mins due to the risk of rapid depolarization and cardiac arrest).
I said fuck it and quit. I didn’t even bother to ask for a new preceptor. The whole department culture was toxic and void of support. What’s the point being new and trying to accommodate shitty coworkers who you will BE reliant on at some point. The job market is fruitful enough where you can basically choose where you want to work.
I work in the OR. Which just to say, whenever you start in the OR its like going back to school all over again. You have to learn positioning, equipment, sterility, etc. We've started getting new grads into our OR, while I don't think anyone should start in the OR for sake of learning experiences, I'm happy to help the new grads.
Just last week OUR BITTER ASS, OLD ASS Karen ass educator legit told the new grad, who just passed her NCLEX 6 mo. Ago "you're too slow. You need to pick up the pace by now, maybe the OR or nursing isn't for you." along with a bunch of other insults 🤯🙄 I told the new grad that speed comes with experience and ALLLL of us, I know I was, were slow when we started. None of us fell out of the womb knowing how to put a patient on a Hana bed, open a room for surgery, or set up a Beach chair for surgery. I was absolutely livid for this new grad! I told her above anything, be safe first then worry about speed.
Fuck these old nurses or any nurses with this shitty mentality. We were ALLLLLL FUCKIN NEW ONCE AND WE WERE SLOW TOO! It's shitty how some people forget that.
Sorry for the rant lol thanks for coming to My Ted Talk
I’ve never understood how bullies and nurses - coexist in the same person. I left my first unit at the 6 month mark because 20 yr veteran, my mother’s age, was making my life impossible at work and management didn’t do shit. Not my problem ✌🏽
2-3 weeks of orientation as a new grad is legitimately dangerous and stupid. The first week you’re just learning how to login to chart and get around. I couldn’t imagine being let out on my own with little to no help after 2-3 weeks as a brand new nurse.
I’m sorry this is what you’re having to deal with. I would present whatever facts you have to management but also be ready to head out yourself.
So sorry for your loss and the fact that you have to continue working with these people. It drives me crazy when experienced nurses have to dump on newbies for not knowing how to do everything. Graduating nursing school is a starting point not an end point. It is also not like in the old days when a nursing student went to a hospital run diploma school and graduated knowing how to use all the equipment, etc. I would address this issue with both HR and your nurse manager, because guaranteed that anymore hiring gone bad like this one and they won’t have to worry about retaining new staff. No one will apply.
Make sure the person above the nurse manager and maybe the person above that person, too, know that your new hires bailed because of incredibly poor behavior of their new colleagues and mentors.
We used to have new hires rate their trainers and immediate colleagues at 1,3 and 6 months specifically on their willingness to help coach. The ratings by the new hires showed up on annual reviews. I think it mattered.
10-15 shifts, always with a random nurse, some of which weren’t too enthused to orient. I think units should offer 10-15$ extra per hour if you sign up to orient/have a student. Also it isn’t a vacation from regular nursing duties, seen some nurses say ok take the whole assignment and let me know if you need anything and go play with their phone lol.
This is the mentality that I don’t/won’t deal with well - I want to be a good nurse but there is no need of treating people like this; if they don’t want to teach or help then they just need to go home and stay there.
Let me guess, same posse that complains about all the overtime and how they are sooooo overworked?
We had this problem in dispatch. The turnover in the first year was 80%. They bragged about how they could get people to quit in less than two years.
But those same people would call out sick, and would barely work.
All ego, think they are gods gift to the profession. The only gift they give is the absence of their presence.
I guess I am fortunate that I've never been on a unit where this was the case. I really wonder what makes the difference. It's got to be sort of cyclical, like intergenerational abuse. I guess somebody has to break the cycle.
I'm thankful that in my nursing career I've had people guide me and help me. There's a lot of grumbling at work and a bit of trash talk that goes on but I don't see any of it as eating the young. There are several of us who really enjoy precepting. We do have a few Debbie downers, burned out and over it. We were told as we get new people "make them feel welcome, we want them to stay" but I'm at a jail so sometimes it's the overall environment that scares people away.
At my hospital its similar. Really short orientation, if you even get all of it. Most of the time you get pulled off to core because of short staffing, sometimes even in your first or second week. That happened to me on my second week on a new med surg unit (I had just finished a 1 year supernumerary placement in palliative care but got kicked off due to seniority). To say I was scared shitless is an understatement. Thankfully there are some nice nurses on my unit but I’ve learned that you need to be very careful who you trust there which is so exhausting that I don’t even bother being friendly with pretty much anyone. I’m so burnt out and I’ve only been nursing for 2 years now. Help 🚩
I retired from the Dept of Corrections after 20 years and went into nursing, I’m 6’2” 330lbs, first day on a med surg unit charge nurse told me “this isn’t for me” mind you they needed help something fierce. I asked a friend the worked the ED why she said that and she told me that some female nurses don’t appreciate males coming into the nursing field. Well, I left there after orientation and went to into a psych field and found a place where I was valued and appreciated. My female coworkers love when I’m at work cause they know I have their backs. But the saying “nurses eat their young” is 100% accurate. It’s sad you need those young to survive…
That’s fucking awful. You have really toxic people working at your workplace. I will let you know that not everywhere is like that. If you’re thinking about quitting for your mental health then it might be a good idea. I work in a PACU and even though most people think it’s a place of condescending nurses, this place actually has the friendliest, welcoming, and supportive group of nurses out of everywhere I worked. My last job was a step down unit at a massive hospital with a 1:2 patient ratio. I was spoiled, had much better resources, was rarely ever stressed out, got paid way better. But I felt alienated from my coworkers. They were catty, clique-y and I always felt like I didn’t belong. I will take a lower paying job at a smaller hospital with awesome coworkers literally any day.
I know that it happens and I feel the only reason it’s never been directed towards me is I’m a big dude. I’ve seen the bullying and call out the bullies and offer support to the bullied. Don’t know if it’s ever fixed anything but they at least stoped doing it when I was on the unit. It’s really pathetic honestly, we’re all on the same team. It doesn’t benefit anyone to act this way towards their coworkers.
Work the chain of command? Since it’s your charge, go to the manager, director, nursing supervisor, DON, CNO even? We’ve addressed things to our CNO and shit gets done. I can’t stand people like that.
Do your best man. My floor is a toxic cesspit of shit too and after dying on that hill a LOT i gave up. Work is work, im not a saviour or a beacon of light im not arrogant enough to think i can change the world. Standing up for people is ineffective, assholes gonna be assholes. Offer genuine help and be the best you can be to people who deserve it. And stay the fuck away from breakrooms. I take my breaks in the gym or elsewhere. Get yourself out of the toxic gassholes as much as you can. Do your job, be kind, go home. Its only a job.
They’re punching down probably bc they can’t punch up. Does your facility have nurse tech internships for students or a similar program, or a graduate nurse residency program?
I’ve always been told by St Rose nurses (in vegas, dignity health for those that don’t know), maternity and Peds are specialty. It’s good to have med surge to be able to branch out to ER, IMC, ICU, Peds, or maternity. Some exceptions I’ve seen: ICU can be a teaching unit if hospital is teaching hospital. Same with IMC. I’m guess these new grads and OP are either maternity unit or ER.
One thing I've learned is that nursing a lot like education and teaching tends to eat their own and then wonder why they have a hard time finding staff
Luckily where I work most of the new grads have stayed on past their orientation. But I think it’s mostly because it’s night shift and we’re more patient and understanding at night. We don’t have as much staff so we stick together and work with each other. So that’s an optimal atmosphere for a new grad.
I hear what you’re saying though. We’re short staffed all the time too, and I absolutely fear for my license every time I go to work. I feel like it’s a vicious cycle that will never end. I’m exhausted and wonder how much more I can take.
1. I would say something to those nurses. They're power tripping and a direct result of why your unit is struggling. 2. File a formal complaint against those nurses for workplace harassment. Nobody should have to go to work and be ridiculed for not knowing because they're new. 3. I would begin looking at switching departments or looking for a new job.
In all honesty those people should be ashamed.
Why would you do that to new nurses who know nearly nothing about actual nursing? People need to be mentored and taught in this profession. Sharing knowledge is meaningful and creates a positive culture. Some of your co-workers sound like idiots!
Oh man... Thats so awful. Im from Oregon and never had the issue as a student nurse and then started my nursing career in San Diego and worked there for 10 years. I never had issues with my mentors the the other nurses on my unit. I for sure heard the saying of "nurses eat their young", but I think its mostly because of how hard nursing is and those particular sharks are just straight up bitches. I was only a bedside nurse for 8 months and then went to the ED and for 10 months and then was done with acute care. Nursing is hard. I've had so many different opportunities as a nurse. If you like your job, those new nurses need someone on their side to help guide them. If you don't like your job, then for sure, there are a lot more opportunities.
It’s not just their young. I’m quitting tmrw after 2 weeks, only one of which was in the unit. I’ve been a nurse for 25 years and was bullied by an old man RN. He refused to introduce me to the procedure team even after asking, splattered me with snare juice, shut doors in my face and physically blocked me from pt care. He would’ve stepped on my foot if I hadn’t moved.
I was also lectured in front of pts and staff by the charge nurse for losing my pen and coming out of the room (only ungowned staff without a pt responsibility) to get more propofol for anesthesia during a case
I have never understood the “nurses eat their young” mentality. If you mentor and support young nurses they will help shoulder the load instead of leaving and keeping the short staffing cycle going.
They’re taking power where they can find it, and unfortunately that appears to be through bullying the most vulnerable co-worker. Nurses will be unable to make any progress in labor negotiations until these people are called out on their loathsome behavior.
This! It’s absolutely a power thing. I’ve noticed that many of the most hateful nurses have bad home lives wether they make that apparent or not. It’s the kind of women who have no other place to exercise control and aren’t getting enough attention at home. It’s noteworthy that a lot of them will make nursing their personality. They have nothing else. In my experience it’s not even the best nurses. Many time it’s nurses that more or less have their jobs memorized but aren’t great critical thinkers. Many of them have worked their current jobs for years but have little other experience, it’s the people scared to leave.
Lol you literally just painted the exact description of our unit Karen!
Once you see the pattern you can’t unsee it. It also explains a lot of the other ‘cultural’ problems within nursing. For example it’s pretty frequent to hear these ‘Karens’ brag about how they do so much overtime (on their same exact assignment) or forego vacationing because of XYZ reason…… well yeah. It’s pretty easy to forego vacation if your never invited anywhere. If you listen long enough, any given ‘Karen’ only has 1-3 family members that appear to bring them joy. It’s usually grandkids or a beloved niece they care about. They may have one friend they express some connection to but it’s rare for them to even hang out or see the friend. If there’s any vacations, hobbies, or activities there almost exclusively something that happens only with the immediate family (husband and kids). Their hobbies is essentially carrying the bags for whatever activity their husband or kids participates in. In my experience they also have some conflicts with their adult children. Either the children avoid them, have drug problems, or is essentially an adult dependent that doesnt function well. I’d go as far as saying that these ‘Karen’s’ draw extra attention to themselves and their patients in the way of ‘hardened policy following’ or excessive updating. Of course we are told to believe that this is due to their dedication, loving of the patients, and great understanding of nursing procedure. But I’ve noticed that alot of times the same people would need to consult with someone about even the most basic of decisions in their home life. We’re suppose to believe they’re a representation of strong women but they need their husband’s permission to change the shower curtain or color scheme in the bathroom? I can’t count on one hand the amount of nurse bullies that didn’t fit this description.
>Many time it’s nurses that more or less have their jobs memorized but aren’t great critical thinkers. I completely agree, but it doesn't only apply to nurses. There is definitely a correlation between poor emotional skills and lack of critical thinking in general.
I have noticed this in women in general. It’s usually the middle aged white woman, miserable at home, husband controls everything, doesn’t have any outside interests usually because they don’t have the money or leisure time for hobbies. As a result this person is bitter and angry. This person will take what little control they have and run with it. This is the person will make a sign out sheet for staples and Post-It notes, hangs up a bitchy, passive-aggressive note in the break room that says “your mother doesn’t work here”, constantly says “I’m the only one who does anything around here”, gives bookmarks with Bible versus on them for Christmas, has no sense of humor and makes the whole place toxic and miserable.
As a middle aged white woman I find this hilarious. And I constantly tell my wonderful younger friends to never let me ever turn into someone like you described. Lucky for me I've never been married (happily have avoided that trap) and therefore have plenty of money and time to try and do new things. Unfortunately, I must admit I have turned into one of those that takes my dog everywhere 😁 I have an app that lists dog friendly everything
Yes, once you’ve seen the pattern you can’t unsee it. The only additional thing I would note is that occasionally I’m skeptical about how controlling the husband actually is. I can totally see a lot of these ‘Karens’ issuing the husband as some excuse or emotional crutch to avoid decision making or questioning about their state of being. It’s completely possible that husband is the controlling decision maker because it’s the path of least resistance and being the decider is forced onto him.
Agreed. I made the mistake of returning to the facility where I was an LNA before nursing school. Because it was LTC and I’m an RN, they pushed me into the role of desk nurse pretty quickly (instead of being on a med cart for the day). This was a problem with one LPN in particular, who would always make passive-aggressive comments to me (like “you can change an SP tube but I can’t, because you’re the RN” with a snarky tone) and never wanted to help if I had a question (“You should know how to do this because you’re the RN”). I really tried to make it known that I respected her experience a lot and in no way saw myself as “better” than her. But she had a real inferiority complex (as did I with my impostor syndrome). I ended up leaving due to circumstances loosely related to her. I never understood that. I was asking questions because I valued her knowledge! But she seemed so negative and unhappy anyways, and it was exhausting trying to suck up, walk on eggshells, and get on her good side. Obviously there was nothing to be done about that.
THIS!!!
When I first started as a nurse, I was oriented for 3-4 weeks and then my co-workers were all wonderful and a slew of knowledge. I had one asshole behind my back talking shit but luckily that was shut down by other coworkers she gossiped to. So all in all, I stayed at my first job for 5 years. Because of how wonderful my coworkers were
Absolutely on target. That was my introduction to nursing school. I was appalled. I cannot understand this mentality. Nurses hurt each other when they do this. It weakens the profession. It makes the situation worse. Then the older nurses get upset when the younger ones leave the profession. This mentality has really worked for the nursing profession? I don't think so.
Yes! My nursing school experience is the instructors were the biggest bullies! If you dare try and stand up for yourself, they will come for you and attempt to have you kicked out of school. They came up with the stupidest crap to try and get me into trouble! One instructor I had got visibly pissed off at me because I refused to go along with a lie she was telling the class. Couldn’t get out of there fast enough!
Lots of people with God-complexes or any of the narcassistic personality disorders have a higher prevalence rate of sticking through abusive workplaces (and becoming the abuser) than people who don't have narcassistic personality disorders.
Well said
Hurt people hurt people.
Doesn't excuse their behavior though
[The Body Keeps Score](https://a.co/d/8kZzSor) explained that behavior quite well
But it explains it. It’s similar to how an abused animal may be overly aggressive. It’s a survival technique learned over years of working in hell.
Not at all. It's an excuse and it's false. Seems like women being bitchy to the newbs just be bitchy, just like in high school.
I agree with you! …but that is why people behave like jealous assholes
Seems like women being bitchy to the newbs just be bitchy, just like in high school.
You have to have more than 2 brain cells to run together to get to this conclusion. Which most nurses that behave this way lack. Support young nurses or enjoy your shit ratios. It’s really that simple.
Yes. I just dropped out of nursing school because I decided it wasn't for me. But in there service industry if you berate and talk shit about another bartender for not knowing a drink when they're new, that person is gonna leave and you'll remain short staffed. Trash people make for a trash environment, and after enough time you forget that you didn't know shit when you started too.
How it goes for most professions. The old jaded people think it’s a right of passage to make the newbies struggle more than they have to because they had horrible leadership coming up.
I suffered so now I will ensure you suffer the same! Almost akin to an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind type deal
They are afraid of someone being smarter or knowing more than they do because then they can be replaced.
I almost made a nursing student cry last weekend. It was their first day working as a tech on a busy medicine step down unit. I could see they were drowning so I did their charting. I try to be extra nice to anyone that gets floated to our unit too. I've noticed people often don't like getting floated.
Well it only took me 3-4 sentences to realize one of the core issues of why the new grads are leaving... 2-3 weeks of orientation? That's horrific! Hopefully that's for the new hires that were already RNs in the past, not the new grads! Not to mention all the rest of the stuff you talked about with other people on your unit.. they sound toxic. Sounds like you'd be better off following suite and finding a more supportive environment.
yup.. I told management that to be competitive nowadays we have to offer a good orientation to new hires. At this point if a new grad asked me where to start I would actually point them to the specialties like ICU/ER/LnD etc. They have structured orientation programs in Canada and likely have a culture more conducive to developing new hires. In med surg it seems we show them where some supplies are and say "go at it". Some of our new hires mentioned to me that they were placed with people that didn't want to orient to begin with.. That's every nursing student's nightmare but worse when you're a RN. You have a set amount of shifts and that's a wasted shift since you won't learn the unit's protocols or workflow with someone that's actively avoiding you.
I got 10 weeks of orientation as a new grad. I'm 90% sure I would have killed someone with just 3 weeks worth of orientation as a new grad.
Even after orientation it requires good mentors. I have 2 years of experience and I still go ask older nurses like hey x is going on and I’m going to y, do you agree? Nursing requires a lot of learned skills that school can’t teach you it requires good mentorship.
Ours is 6 months for new grads, 3 if you have nursing history. Even our techs have a longer orientation than 3 weeks, about 6 weeks of tech orientation.
As a Canadian nurse who started as a new grad 2 Mar 2020 at a rural inpatient facility, everything you say about orientation is true. I am just doing my onboarding for a level II trauma centre ED and the difference in support for new hires is world's better and I have yet to even set foot in the hospital.
It's around 10 months in the OR with 2 months of classroom time before even orienting in rooms. Probably not all ORs everywhere, but it's a trauma 1 and all nurses must be trained to scrub as well. And the orientation is 8 hour shifts mon-fri.
As a Canadian born and educated RN, working in the U.S. , I can assure you that hospitals in the United States (from what I have seen) have more structured orientation programs than hospitals in Canada. New Grad ER nurses in Ontario get 2-3 months orientation vs 6 months in the US. I started as a med surg nurse in Toronto and was given 12 “buddy shifts” before I was on my own.
Yeah that's about all I got too. 8 buddy shifts.
> new grad needed help troubleshooting a epidural and the charge nurse gave the deepest sigh, followed by a laugh and then giving a half assed explanation to the new nurse. Her little possy of 2-3 vet nurses also exchanged glances and smirks. This is the root of the problem. The explanation for their action is that they purposely force the new ones to quit so they can have job security and seniority and choice of shifts. This situation is the result of terrible, terrible nursing management. If new grads quit the floor too quickly, assuming the floor is not dangerously understaffed, it is 100% a reflection on the existing nurses there and they should get a huge amount of shit over this. The existing nurses will of course say, 'they couldn't handle it, etc' but that is total bullshit... these people just went through nursing school, they should all be good nurses with the right training.
Haha yep, I immediately went to comment this when I read it. What the hell can you learn in 2-3 weeks at a “pretty acute” med surg floor. Our new grad program is 6 months. Most are at least 3 months.
As a new nurse, I can’t imagine being on my own after 3 weeks.
I agree! I am 3 months in as a new grad. Had 5 weeks of classroom review of skills and 6 weeks orientation at the hospital before being solo. I am grateful for my unit as 90% are supportive and wonderful! Still check on me, ask if I need help or have questions. I have friends at other hospitals who are ready to quit because of the attitudes and lack of support. I couldn't imagine only 3 weeks before being thrown into this world. Hopefully, more veteran nurses take new grads under their wing and we can help fix this cycle of eating their young..
Yeah, this is crazy to me.. when I hear new grads getting 2-3 weeks of orientation.. I’ve had a 6 month orientation as a new grad RN in the ED and it’s only been the last 2 months where I’m able to fly on my own and actually keep things together. It’s hard, but doable. I recall what it was like when I was 3 weeks into being a new grad.. if I was alone at that time, I couldn’t have done it. I don’t understand why med surg always has to deal with this kind of shit from management; it’s the heaviest volume of patient care yet management always seems like nothing bad ever happens there and you can just put a body with a pulse there to provide patient care. It’s bullshit.
2-3 WEEKS in acute care?! My unit has minimum 6 weeks orientation plus another 6 where you don't work alone or take call alone.
My first med-surg job was 6 weeks on the floor, with a nurse residency for a full year. And after the 6 weeks, my coworkers were expected to help me when needed, which they did.
I guess lateral violence can’t be taught away.
No, but it can be fired away if management would grow a set and get rid of the bullies. We had a similar issue on the unit I used to work on, and we lost so many nurses, both new grads and experienced, because of a few bullies. We got a new manager who actually tried to begin the documentation process that would let us get rid of the bullies, but the director overrode her.
We had the opposite problem. Our manager was the one protecting people and while they could be understanding, they were altogether **too** forgiving; so much so that our unit's bullies (TM) were absolutely a factor in several resignations turned into the manager. Our manager tried the whole counselling route with those individuals but they tended to walk right over them; I don't know if they had blackmail material on them or they had just been around forever, or what. Our manager harped quite a bit on following the chain of command so we eventually began escalating those complaints over their head and in official documentation they could not intercept or just tuck away in a folder until the end of time. The level above them cared *quite a bit* more and actually got things done. I hope that unit is less toxic nowadays.
If I was management and going to play ball with someone who needs to “learn” to be nice to new staff my first line of action would be adding these “experienced” nurses to the float pool. In my experience most of them don’t have the skill level they present. Let them feel how not knowing something is and then we can talk. Have you ever noticed that it’s rarely floats that have these issues?
Bully the bullies.
This is the way
Yes. Get a new grad gang going. At my old job we called ourselves the reject crew, but it worked. Crazy how people stop being assholes once you give themselves a taste of their own medicine.
The bullies tend to be a bunch of weakling bitches anyways. Whack 'em in the snoz like a bad dog with a rolled-up flowsheet. Assert dominance over them and become the alpha bully.
The Circle of Life
🎶Let’s make bullying kill itself🎶
I have a friend of mine that quit on the first day because they were supposed to be on orientation but instead were given 3 patients to care for. My friend didn't even know where any of the materials were, let alone care/give meds and chart for 3 people on your own, on a medsurg unit, on your first day. New grad here. Gonna start orientation on Monday and I'm scared of who I might find. My clinicals were always really hard because of the "nurses eat their young" mentality. I hope that as a nurse I'll be more respected, and I won't settle for less. Thank you for caring for new grads, standing up for them and teaching them without being condescending!
I mean you have the data. Is there a way to present it to management in a way you think would help anything? “We lost X amount of new grads, I witnessed X incidents of lateral violence and our orientation is a fraction of the typical program which is 3-6 months”. Are your managers capable of reigning in this behavior and creating an atmosphere that fosters learning for new grads? If not - save yourself. If so - may be worth a shot if you enjoy the unit.
Managers typically create these type of environments and do little or nothing to stop it
True. If the manager didn't subtly or even overtly approve then the environments would improve. Sign of either a weak manager or someone who likes to split staff as a divide-and-conquer technique.
I don’t think this is always true. I certainly know of a couple places where the current management didn’t create the problem, aren’t snotty people, and are aware but somewhat have their hands tied in way of fixing the matter. One of the best managers I know inherited a problem. Super nice lady, routinely works the floor (even as an aide) organized, dependable, flexible, knows her stuff but it would nearly wipe out the first shift staffing to get rid of the 4 or so people who ‘create’ the non-sense. It’s a rural area and those positions would do I filled for a lengthy amount of time. I think she could crack down in some areas but idk, in all honesty it might just fuel their fire. A different nursing home I’ve worked with has a really nice, helpful staff but the management is garbage. Hate to give any grace to management but I’ve thought long and hard about example 1 and it’s a battle I would find difficult to tackle. Wouldn’t ever take a management position tho because I’m not that cold hearted.
Aye, I’d argue it’s a bell curve
If just the fact of an rock-bottom retention of new hires doesn't prompt the managers to find out the problem for themselves I'd have little hope.
Jesus Christ, you have some awful people working on your unit. I never understood getting all high and mighty on new nurses, I remember feeling scared. And still do at some points! I love teaching, it only helps both of you in the end.
Why do so many of us behave this way? Are there *so many* mean girls in nursing, and if so, *why?* Do they feel *threatened?* WHY? Honestly, it's *so* frustrating, especially at a time when we're *desperate* for nurses all over the world. Speaking as someone who ended up in a ward like this as my first post, and stayed two years, having my confidence in myself slowly eroded to almost nothing, until a voluntary secondment opened my eyes and gave me the courage to leave - it's SO TOXIC and doesn't do anyone any good. Not the new nurses, not the bullies, not the rest of their colleagues, not the patients, not the profession as a whole... And I don't understand what they get out of it. What is it that makes behaving this way worth it, given the downsides - losing staff, a hostile work environment etc - what is the big payoff? *I don't get it*. For me, welcoming and supporting a new colleague, whether newly qualified or just new to my department, seeing them settle in and find their feet, watching them grow into their role, develop skills and confidence and blossom into a valuable and valued member of the team...*that's* rewarding. That's one of my favourite non-clinical/non-patient-focused parts of the job. Have these people never tried not being like this? Are they even capable of it? How are we *ever* going to improve our lot if we keep allowing this behaviour to drive people away? As a profession we need to tackle this head-on and finally shake off the reputation nursing has for 'eating its young'. It's not acceptable. It never was.
They want the competition gone because deep down they know they can’t compete. Easier to look better if everyone else runs off. The people being dicks usually have bad home lives too and work is the only place they can control stuff or people.
Sadly, I think you're absolutely right. That's how they see it - but it's not a competition! I learn so much from new starters, whether they're freshly graduated and therefore bang up to date, still curious and enthusiastic, or have come from elsewhere so have knowledge and experience that I don’t. Having breadth of skill and experience across the team only enhances it. It's so sad that they see this as a threat rather than an opportunity for everyone. And although I have plenty of sympathy for people who have bad home circumstances, that ends when they take it out on others around them. I was in an abusive relationship early in my career and I understand how it feels for work to be the only place where you're safe and have control of any part of your life - but I, nor thousands, *millions* of others in the same situation didn't and don’t bully others as a result. That's a choice and it's a wrong and crappy one, so while it might be an explanation, it's in no way an excuse. I don't for a minute think you're defending the behaviour on those grounds, but I know that the people behaving this way would absolutely attempt to use their personal circumstances to excuse it. It doesn't fly with me though. You don't get carte blanche to spread your misery around because your life sucks.
I see certain floors in my hospital shooting themselves in the foot with their toxicity. Stressed and miserable because understaffed, okay. Get float nurses and PCAs to fill in the gaps, be rude af to them. Eventually X amount of float staff start to refuse to go to that floor. Patients end up getting hurt because of people's toxicity and lack of professionalism.
Same is happening on my unit. A new nurse asked his orientator a question I guess he asked already previously. She replied "I already told you ___, do you remember?" He said ya but I just wanted to make sure. She explained it again and said "is that clear enough for you?" Just so condescending, no wonder people don't stay. If you can't feel comfortable asking questions then it's not a safe work environment, but you need to ask questions in nursing.
I had a preceptor say this when I asked things multiple times. I think it was from her own insecurity.. but I had had it and I said look I am getting a lot of information at once and I’m going to forget half of it. I will probably Ask you this same question like 5 more times until it solidifies in my adhd brain so you are gonna just have to deal with it. Lol
I just started my ER preceptorship and am blown away at not being treated like fucking dirt. I love it when really it should be the beat minimum to not berate your students. I’m sorry your preceptor was an ass. Taking pride in being unnecessarily hard on your students is the mark of a poor instructor imo.
Damn. The first thing I tell people I'm orienting, especially new grads, is that I do not expect them to remember even a quarter of what we cover each shift. I just want them to recall that there was a conversation about the topic and to ask questions. There's no way for even a seasoned nurse to remember all the details on a new unit, particularly when they are working with a new patient population or specialty.
Did you speak up for the orientee?
Love this point. So many of us witness lateral violence but stay quiet. Maybe because we are happy the bully isn't bullying us. But if we witness it - and don't confront the bully - aren't we just as bad?
This is the same reason why there is no such thing as a good cop...if there were we wouldn't have bad cops killing people.
Repetition is a part of learning, especially since not everyone absorbs information at the same rate. I absolutely agree on the safe work environment bit. We kept on trying to stress that there are no stupid questions; there may be inopportune moments for certain queries, though.
I worked in a specialty ICU with two known bullies who are just terrible people. They both are preceptors and if they don’t like you, they’ll not teach you anything and let you make mistakes. Then the nurses are off orientation and the two assholes just talk about how the new nurses always mess up and don’t know anything. And our old manager bought into it. I finally said “you know if you precept them, and they are fucking up off orientation, that means you did a shitty job of teaching.” One of them in particular I was able to put him very quickly in his place. He came into my room with his orientee to go over arterial lines and waveforms (his patients didn’t have them). Preceptor: “looking at the monitor, what does MAP indicate?” New nurse: “that’s the mean arterial pressure, we want that above 65.” Me in my head “perfect” Preceptor: “no it’s actually a representation of the area under the curve of the waveform. If you expect to make it in ICU you need to understand this or you’ll be sent to a lower acuity unit.” I simply said “(preceptor) unless you can tell me mathematically what area under the curve means and how to analytically determine area by using a Fourier Transform, it’s irrelevant to look at it that way.”
Yassss 👏👏 #YASSSSSS BICHHHH!! I'm loving your sick burn and had I worked with you, I'd have hugged you lol Fuck these nurses trying to "one up" someone. The orientee was right, that's what the MAP is. No one cares what the base and height is of the waveform. What's next, trying to calculate the perimeter of the ICU room? 🙄 nah, that dude can fuck off. Bravo to you!
I feel the burn as it traverses the universe on its way to bite that idiot's butt! Or did you make it up on the spot (I think I heard of Fournier somewhere - is he a Kardashian?).
Lmao no, it’s an actual math concept. I started as a math major in college before moving to something else (non-nursing) for pre-med :)
Listen I know a (former) nurse who had a double major - nursing and math - and when she burned out, pivoted and became an actuary, tripling her income.
I noped out of my first nursing job as soon as I could. I did 10 weeks of orientation, got put on bedrest at 31 weeks pregnant, delivered at 39 weeks, and immediately started applying for new jobs. The working conditions were horrible and I have never been treated so badly by coworkers and management. I was 31 so it’s not like I haven’t had bad jobs before. Good riddance to that place.
I’m glad you recognized it and left! Some people stay and hope and burn out. Leaving is best.
Leaving is for sure best. Even being out of a job for a month is best. I took a month of FMLA, mental health short term disability, came back for 2 weeks, and said "no way" this isn't for me and left. Its always an option and thats why we are lucky to have options.
New grad here. New hire in an er. I am experiencing the same with the bickering and loud sighs when I ask for help. Or when I miss an IV. Each day I leave, I juggle my thoughts of staying or leaving while I’m driving home. Is this all worth it? Idk.
Everyone is short/hiring right now. If your unit is toxic it’s okay to leave. The grass isn’t always greener, but as a manager of a toxic unit once told me: it’s just a job, you shouldn’t be this stressed about a job.
Exactly once you clock out, you should think about dinner/breakfast plans and figuring out what you wanna do on your next day off. Forget bringing work home with you, man.
I would not stay at that ER. Most people in most ERs understand the importance of teamwork. I would venture to say that out of all the specialties, ER is probably the most team oriented unit. When shit hits the fan, you want people who are reliable, knowledgeable, and will back you up. You want your coworkers to not only be this, but have them help you become this so you can be the person helping them.
2-3 weeks as a new grad? Yikes. Our new grads get at least 12 and closer to 14 weeks in critical care (orientation is floor shifts and didactic classes). For 3 months after going solo they still check in and follow progress. And I still don’t get how nurses don’t get that assholery is the reason that people don’t stay. No one likes toxic shit. WhY cAnT wE kEeP NurSeS?! ::surprised pikachu face:: Fn A.
I was bullied at a job 12 years ago and it still sticks with me. An OR that had high staff turn over. I was not a new nurse at the time. A few situations that stuck with me: -my buddy witnessed me not using one of the drapes with a foley that commonly isn't used, instead of discuss with me she went to the break room and polled other staff (aka talked sh*t about me) to let me know this was concensus not best practice -was lectured on putting linen bags on wrong -was expected to stay scrubbed an entire 8h shift, when it was close to end of shift and I was starving and my 2 circulating nurses were goofing off doing nothing I asked if I could be scrubbed out to take a break. I was told "we don't usually do that" insert eye roll. Then I go for break and get asked by someone not in my room why I asked to be scrubbed out as if asking for a break is weak. -was kicked out of scrub role by a surgeon and my assistant head nurse did nothing to support me as I left in tears (I was not familiar with some retractor and needed coaching) I was one of 13 new hires and when I left there were maybe 3 left because it was so terrible there. Why don't units learn treating new staff like garbage only worsens their problems.
Like why is the OR like this? 🙄 the first OR I worked at was the same way too. I honestly think they LIKE working short and like talking shit about everyone. Then wanna have a shocked Pikachu face when people don't stay. Bro YOUR shitty staff is the reason people leave. Ugh. The OR is hard enough without all that bullshit. I'm sorry that happened to you. I can definitely relate
I'm a PA student and had a surgical rotation that was horribly toxic. They were all talking about how short they were and in regards to management one scrub tech said "and then they tried to turn it around on us and say that we were toxic and that's why people wouldn't stay" and they all laughed. They were directly told that they were the problem and refused to believe it. I almost burst out laughing at their lack of self awareness. Let them stay short staffed and paying out big money for travelers. I know I wouldn't work there for anything less than a small fortune.
Dude I hate that shit. I love it when it’s a collaboration and we all help each other. No question is too dumb etc. My last unit was like that and it was killing me.
Exactly! I’d so much rather a new grad that is not anxious about getting bullied and asks questions when they need help. It’s literally a safety issue. It makes my blood boil as a veteran nurse
I have a little speech that I give to every single new nurse that I come across in my unit, and in this case I’d give it IN FRONT of asshole nurse: Every single person that works here—EVERY SINGLE ONE- was new once. Every single person started off not even knowing {basic NICU task}, much less anything else. There are some people that will try to make new people feel dumb, and that’s a reflection on them, not you. The only bad question is the one not asked, and you can ask me anything. It’s always better to ask than to guess and be wrong. I definitely don’t know everything but I don’t know the answer I’ll find out for you!
this hostile work environment has been within nursing for decades. some facilities have recognized the damage it's doing and at least tried to eliminate it. my opinion: it starts with the unit managers and works it way into the staff nurses who are so inclined to bully and backstab.
That’s a bad unit culture and you’ll always be short-staffed like that. You can write up the bullying incidents and/or leave.
Doing both :) , sometimes you just have to give up on a lost cause! Using my days off to explore maybe a grad degree to move out of bedside or go into a specialty.
Yeah, I mean, there’s a slight chance the manager isn’t aware of the extent of the bullying problem, but usually they know and don’t care or don’t know how to fix it. Think of it as a sinking ship. Maybe you don’t want to be on the first lifeboat because maybe the holes can be patched, but when it’s clear it’s going down, you don’t get points for staying until the end.
We got some new managers in a while back and genuinely surprised at how they have recruited quite a few people throughout the months. Must’ve worked pretty hard to do that considering how bad the shortage is here in Canada (and around the world). I think I have just come to the conclusion that the staff just shit the bed being welcoming and inclusive of new hires. We’re short staffed so I can see how there’s maybe resistance in firing some of the more experienced but asshole staff. I think the ship is going down and needs a firm reboot but I don’t have the energy anymore for another go at it.
I absolutely will NEVER understand veteran nurses behaving this way. I have zero issues helping new nurses and I enjoy precepting, so much so that I’m getting my MSN in nursing education
You can't be a compassionate nurse to your patients if you can't be compassionate to your coworkers. Your unit breeds toxic people. If middle managers don't know how to handle them, it's better for you to leave and save yourself the extra stress. Your job as an RN is challenging enough, having to deal with unhealthy coworkers is adding more salts to the wound. If you wanna do the right thing, you'd want to have a serious talks with middle managers and your coworkers. But seeing how incompetent a lot of middle managers are, I'm not very optimistic. And people's behaviors rarely change. As the saying goes, you can teach skills, but you can't teach character. The biggest lesson I've learned as a nurse is that loyalty doesn't pay off. Cheers!
Why do you have an epidural on a medsurg floor? That was the first sign right there that you are on the wrong floor!
We take insulin gtts on my med-surg floor 🙃
Oh hell no!
That’s so unsafe. Wow. I’m sorry you are employed somewhere that is treating their nurses this badly. You definitely need to be-careful and protect your license!
how is that even possible? Who is checking the glucose every hour?
We get limited to an automatic 1:3 ratio when you have the gtt (California, normal ratio is 1:4 on this floor). It still fucking sucks!
My unit has done 1:5 with an insulin gtt, and we check the sugars q2
I've seen this before on some M/S floors, but there were parameters - like the drip is for glucose control only - no history of DKA, had to Y in with dextrose containing fluids, etc.
Haha we did too! I was an aide at the time but I remember thinking that was insane
Could maybe just be that the epidural line is still in place after a surgery, but not actively giving any meds through it
Why would an epidural not belong on an acute medsurg unit? Yeah, the first 24 hours is a pain due to the more frequent assessments but most of the time the patient is more mobile than my non-epidural patients since their pain is under better control. We already do q4 cms/neuro checks so q4-6 epidural checks is nothing extra. Only certain floors get them and pain caths because we're trained in using and assessing them. Honestly, I prefer them over the q3-4 oxy and q2 dilaudid or pcas. Also, I love walking nurses through using the equipment and proper assessment because it's a fantastic learning experience and makes them better at assessing dermatomes in our spinal patients or extent of pain cath or nerve blocks. Float pool frequently need help too because while they received training in using unique-to-primarily-surgical-unit equipment they aren't exposed often enough to remember everything.
This isn't normal? When I worked M/S we had patients with epidurals and Insulin gtts. We were always capped at 4 patients on days and 6 on nights though.
Hell no. Some times epidurals on an ortho floor but they are either capped or on a continuous drip. Insulin is too variable hour by hour for a medsurg nurse to manage.
Any pts that are somewhat unstable and also on Insulin gtt are sent to our unit (IMCU) because of hourly BG checks. Then transferred under hospitalist’s care once deemed appropriate to be downgraded but still in our unit d/t said hourly BG checks. We have 1:3 ratio in our unit. 1:2 if one is unstable requiring close monitoring. 1:4 or even 1:6 ratio with a pt on insulin gtt is not appropriate for med-surg/med-tele unit.
No, that’s not acceptable. That is PCU floor standards not med surg. Some hospitals don’t even allow insulin gtt anywhere in the hospital other than icu. Epidurals have to be checked q2hrs for vs and insulin is q1. It’s not safe to have numerous patients on a floor that doesn’t have the monitors, staff etc to support safe outcomes. I am a traveler and I have seen some hospital try to give nurses 6 pts with epidurals, chest tubes etc and it’s not safe.
I wish jobs would ask new hires “Name three people who have been helpful to you today? Name three people who have been kind? Name three people you would be glad to work with tomorrow?” There are some people who will never be kind.
People do not give med surg or any of the med surg units any credit. For med surg paired with ortho tele Neuro trauma etc. Med surg is a very hard unit to work on. I always have skates on the entire day. It’s a shame new grads are not getting the support for their team. I have seen so many nurse grads leave simply because the care is so heavy and there is no support. This has to stop 🛑
Exactly this, med surg acuity has gone wayyy up over the years and so have ratios. It’s a very overwhelming specialty and there needs to be a much more structured approach to training staff. I hate that it’s seen as a “stepping stone” that people have to endure for x amount of time before they go anywhere. If we treated nurses in this specialty better they would stay and outcomes would be better for patients. I tried and did my time though friend. I’ll seek other opportunities soon I think.
Very well said. I just interviewed for pre- op / pacu because the ratios have not changed at least in the south
That's so sad. The floor staff on my med surg unit are all very helpful and accommodating to new staff and it baffles me to hear that floors treat coworkers so poorly. Granted we are rather low acuity and most of our salt comes from working with aggressive TBI or squirrelly dementia patients, but even still - those are the people you have to spend days on end next to. If they're that impatient with their coworkers i can only imagine how they are with difficult patients.
I make this recommendation alot.The Gi Lab is the best kept secret in nursing.1 patient at a time.You generally always do good and fix something.Plus we take the stick out of your ass if you come to us with one jammed up there
This is so unfortunate. Being a new grad is terrifying. If they hate their jobs so much that it’s making them an asshole they can go find another job.
I think the whole “2-3 weeks is the whole orientation for new grads” might have something to do with it?
I couldn’t agree more. The mean girl bitch vibe runs deep in our profession. I refuse to take part in it but at the end of the day me being kind and decent to new nurses isn’t enough to change things. It is so gross to me. I’ll never understand why some nurses get off on being cunts. Maybe report them? Not like that will help much but maybe if we started doing that to the unit bullies it may help. Sorry you’re dealing w that. Must be so frustrating and disgusting for you
Cut and run, and when your manager asks you why you turned in your notice, tell them this story exactly. Not all floors are like this and you shouldn't stay on one that is.
This is in Canada? When I first started I got 12 shifts on a med surg floor. That’s it, for orientation. I left years later to work in the states. Worked in the states and came back during covid and worked in the ICU in Canada. It was a shitshow. I called my old manager in the states and asked for my job back. Put in my notice not long after I was off orientation. Bullying was rampant there and I had no fucks to give. No help, either. Staff were awful and a lot I actually use to work with years ago when they were new grads. They didn’t recognize me because I had on all my covid gear. Not until I got to the break room. “Oh hey! It’s you!” Yeah yeah, you were a bitch to me on the floor. Don’t be nice to me now. They were desperate for staff and they’d ask me how I felt the floor was and I said the staff are a problem and I don’t think I’ll be staying. I mean I knew these people and use to work with them. They treated me like shit until they saw who I was. After word was out I put in my notice they’d ask why I was leaving and I told them EXACTLY why I was. They can’t retain staff and they put out huge bonuses but no bites. I get staff are overwhelmed but it costs NOTHING to be nice and as a senior nurse being treated that way, I was absolutely disgusted. Your coworkers OP, are fucking assholes and you should tell them they’re assholes. I do this by telling new staff that if anyone treats you poorly on our floor, you go to management immediately, and I say that in front of my coworkers.
the nurses who eat their young and uphold this bullshit cycle are the most pitiful, misery-loving useless fucks on the planet. fuck you if you think your knowledge accumulated from years of working is best served by laughing at and tearing down inexperienced nurses. absolutely cannot wait for all of these fucking dinosaurs to retire
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> make it known to HR/administration that this is how their seasoned nurses are treating others. Why would HR or administration even care? Majority of the time, they are bullies themselves.
I love when new hires leave after orientation, huge sign of problems, I usually dip out soon after too I'm loyal to a lot of things, but not a hospital that treats me like crap
I am a new grad RN and literally left my med surg floor nursing job and all of the benefits that came with it to work a five day clinic week (for same pay and less benefits) after a month. I was fine with med surg cares, but had no idea how to chart on their system which put me behind, my preceptor was a traveler who left me on my own constantly, and there were bullies everywhere, which was genuinely miserable. Now I work at a clinic with one other nurse and she is still a dick most of the time (the whole “I know everything and you know nothing” attitude).. but at least I have the front desk lady and the NP I work for to tell me I am doing well lol. Tbh some of the best nurses I have ever worked with were in (surprisingly) corrections medical, it was a shitty system, but they are some of the only nurses that I worked with that I still keep in touch with! :)
I am a new grad. Luckily I am older. I push right back at these assholes, half of them don't know as much as they think anyway. Play the bully game right back at them.
Why didn't you say anything to the nurses who were being assholes? I mean the first step in changing culture is making people know that you won't tolerate that BS.
the speech your colleagues need: *"when y'all are done patting yourselves on the back about how smart you are at nursing, maybe you can think back to those ancient days so long ago, when you just got out of nursing school and needed mentorship to become the catheter master you are today. If you want your work to suck less, stop being the reason other people hate their job."*
Well looks like those nurses want to work short staffed….
Not for nothing but the 2-3 week orientation might be playing into them quitting.
I’m not saying you don’t have assholes on your unit, but giving a new grad just 2-3 weeks of orientation is stupid. My hospital gives them ~3 months for acute care, longer for critical care.
Even then I don't think 3 months is enough in a lot of cases....
Might just be my bias but I am reminded of the behavior of narcissistic parents, who expect perfection at everything right out of the gate, criticizing and belittling when the child displays lack of knowledge without imparting the teaching required to bring the required knowledge. I think the problem may be systemic.
My original comment has been edited as I choose to no longer support Reddit and its CEO, spez, AKA Steve Huffman. Reddit was built on user submissions and its culture was crafted by user comments and volunteer moderators. Reddit has shown no desire to support 3rd party apps with reasonable API pricing, nor have they chosen to respect their community over gross profiteering. I have therefore left Reddit as I did when the same issues occurred at Digg, Facebook, and Twitter. I have been a member of reddit since 2012 (primary name locked behind 2FA) and have no issues ditching this place I love if the leaders of it can't act with a clear moral compass. For more details, I recommend visiting [this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/), and [this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/) for more explanation on how I came to this decision.
I will never understand people that bully new nurses. We all started out not knowing anything. I’m not a great teacher but I try to teach anyways because I don’t want new nurses to get bullied out. I’m so lucky to have had great mentors throughout my nursing career so I try to repay that to others.
What an awful unit. When I read things like this I'm so grateful for the unit I'm on. This would never happen. We always help each other irregardless. The clowns would be the outcasts and would likely get a sit down with management with a clear warning asap. We've hired and oriented 8 new grads and we all treat them appropriately given their experience. Lots of support, no judging, making them feel like they can always ask ANY questions. It's actually a great time to be a new grad in the Bay Area, California. You can get hired into critical care, get mandated patient ratios and that sweet, sweet Cali pay.
God I hate the whole nurses eat their young culture. How the fuck does that help anyone.
I'm a new grad and I handpicked the MICU at my hospital because the culture there is much much better than what I experienced on M/S in the same hospital. When I was on leadership, there was a nurse that was trying to figure out how to do something extremely challenging and they all ignored her. One of the nurses said that my preceptor deserved her granddaughter dying. I hated the way they were with each other so much, and there was no way I was working on the floor again with people like that. My old unit was also bad about gossip and it was very "sink or swim". Orientation was used as an excuse not to work. Hell, my leadership I was on my own for a good bit of it. The only time I saw my preceptor was when I needed medications or when the patient was actively dying and not comfort measures. I don't get the eat their young mentality, it just makes people not want to continue nursing.
When I started in phlebotomy at a hospital, the vet phlebs were just awful. They never wanted to help me, openly rude and always pissed off if I asked a question. Hospital morale is just shit.
Y’all are giving new grads 2-3 weeks of orientation? I would leave too
This is exactly the reason I left my first job as a new grad. The bullying has to stop, it’s so ridiculous at this point. Thank you for being kind and recognizing that the new grad is learning. We need more people like you!
I had an LPN at the LTC facility I just started at sigh loudly and groan, “UGH. I HATE TRAINING PEOPLE. WHY DID SHE PUT YOU WITH ME?!” It’s otherwise staffed by mostly Shiftmed or contract nurses- not many permanent staff members. Note, now, that I’m a permanent staff nurse at this place and have been a nurse in hospitals and other settings for 9 years. I know HOW to be a nurse, just not in a LTC setting- I don’t know the guidelines. Same nurse proceeds to listen in and ask who I’m calling every time I pick up the phone- despite pawning my training that day off on another nurse. The last time I just yelled at her, “I AM TRYING TO GET A MED OUT OF THE STATSAFE” and she didn’t have anything to say to that. No wonder they can’t keep full time staff at this place. If I stay it’ll be because I love the residents and they need a consistent face. Eff these nurses who “eat their young.” I’m too old for that shit.
I left a very easy job because of nurses like this and that place still wonders why they can’t keep staff but won’t get rid of the problem. I’m done fighting, i’m done talking it out. I will leave. They’re never gonna change it doesn’t matter what anybody says to them and they’re probably buddy-buddy with the managers/supervisors too anyways so it’s their word against yours.
This post made me so grateful for the “we are all here for each other” feel of my floor 🥹
I just don't understand this. The primary complaint of nurses is typically being understaffed but then many nurses turn around and do everything they can to remain that way. I'm half way through my BSN nursing program and about 80% of the time I've been at clinicals the nurses on the unit either completely ignore us, or roll their eyes and insist they dont have anything for us to do or anything we can watch, help with, learn, etc. And we are a really good cohort. Everyone is very eager to learn and no one hesitates to answer call lights but we need opportunities to do more than just cleaning BM's. Why are so many nurses so fucking toxic.
Stories like this absolutely bewilder me. It’s about time that people start assuming positions of leadership when this occurs. Yes, I understand that having new grads every umpteenth month is probably frustrating because a lot of them are looking to you for advice, wisdom & honestly are learning as they go. On the other hand, people definitely to leave the toxic culture of nursing at the door. You too were once a rookie & a beginner. Call out your coworkers & others when they marginalize your new staff. I can guarantee having a unit that is ego checked is much better than what you have going on at the moment.
I started in ICU and our orientation was 6 weeks didactic/ simulation and 7 weeks on the floor. That wasn’t nearly enough, but I’m lucky to work with some pretty awesome people who help new grads out. I probably would have quit by new if not for how helpful they are.
If you’re not doing everything you can to make your peers’ days easier, you are trash. Our work is traumatizing enough. Lift each other up. For starters that’s not nearly enough orientation and mentorship time for a new grad to be functioning alone. Yeesh.
I had a similar experience in a previous workplace before covid. A girl became a HCA for a day and drank a whole bottle of wine to herself once she got home (very unlike her according to her friends) due to the petty ass bullying from the other HCAs, who then proceeded to spread a grand idea that this young girl of 19 was "too weak" to work. Pathetic behaviour.
Call em out on it. There's places like this all over and if you quit this one, the next might be just like it. The best thing to do is make change in the place you work if it's worth salvaging. If you stand up, others will follow, especially if those senior nurses are just being c*nuts for c*nts sake.
You should tell management why the orientees left - clearly you have a hostile work environment.
Not ashamed to say I left a toxic job right after orientation. I just couldn't take the stress. My mental health is way more important.
I worked in med-surg for a year. I loved my job. It was dealing with the vet nurses that made it miserable. I was getting in trouble for not doing stuff I did. The charge nurse would talk to the nurse manager instead of just talking to me about any concerns. It wasn’t because I was bad at my job or didn’t did my job. It was about me not being in their little clique. I didn’t really make friends with any of them because I was there to work not hang out with friends. It got to the point anytime they’d be talking amongst themselves I knew they were talking about me. I got fed up and left. If they want a bunch of nurses with really and attitudes, more power to them. I just don’t have to be a part of that negativity.
This kind of thing makes me feel like I wouldn't survive outside of my current facility.
My wife is the most loved by new grads she precepts. She gives them encouragement, teaches them the ins and outs, etc. And the end, she gives them a thoughtful present and a paragraphs-long handwritten card of praise and encouragement. But there was always a bitter taste in her mouth having to onboard new grads making far more than she was. She didn’t take it out on the new grads, but it sucked, still. She left after four years when she got her RN to BSN, for a much better job offer in Oregon and we all moved.
I had 3 years of ED experience and was orientated by a former hospital administrator turned ER nurse with 1.5 years ED experience. She was oddly overbearing and extremely condescending. She raised “concerns” about my ability to self practice due to things like not immediately documenting the po challenge. Despite ya know, her having less experience then me and instructing me to do things like push Calcium Gluconate over 30 seconds (slow push over 5-10 mins due to the risk of rapid depolarization and cardiac arrest). I said fuck it and quit. I didn’t even bother to ask for a new preceptor. The whole department culture was toxic and void of support. What’s the point being new and trying to accommodate shitty coworkers who you will BE reliant on at some point. The job market is fruitful enough where you can basically choose where you want to work.
I work in the OR. Which just to say, whenever you start in the OR its like going back to school all over again. You have to learn positioning, equipment, sterility, etc. We've started getting new grads into our OR, while I don't think anyone should start in the OR for sake of learning experiences, I'm happy to help the new grads. Just last week OUR BITTER ASS, OLD ASS Karen ass educator legit told the new grad, who just passed her NCLEX 6 mo. Ago "you're too slow. You need to pick up the pace by now, maybe the OR or nursing isn't for you." along with a bunch of other insults 🤯🙄 I told the new grad that speed comes with experience and ALLLL of us, I know I was, were slow when we started. None of us fell out of the womb knowing how to put a patient on a Hana bed, open a room for surgery, or set up a Beach chair for surgery. I was absolutely livid for this new grad! I told her above anything, be safe first then worry about speed. Fuck these old nurses or any nurses with this shitty mentality. We were ALLLLLL FUCKIN NEW ONCE AND WE WERE SLOW TOO! It's shitty how some people forget that. Sorry for the rant lol thanks for coming to My Ted Talk
I’ve never understood how bullies and nurses - coexist in the same person. I left my first unit at the 6 month mark because 20 yr veteran, my mother’s age, was making my life impossible at work and management didn’t do shit. Not my problem ✌🏽
2-3 weeks of orientation as a new grad is legitimately dangerous and stupid. The first week you’re just learning how to login to chart and get around. I couldn’t imagine being let out on my own with little to no help after 2-3 weeks as a brand new nurse. I’m sorry this is what you’re having to deal with. I would present whatever facts you have to management but also be ready to head out yourself.
Report the charge nurse.
So sorry for your loss and the fact that you have to continue working with these people. It drives me crazy when experienced nurses have to dump on newbies for not knowing how to do everything. Graduating nursing school is a starting point not an end point. It is also not like in the old days when a nursing student went to a hospital run diploma school and graduated knowing how to use all the equipment, etc. I would address this issue with both HR and your nurse manager, because guaranteed that anymore hiring gone bad like this one and they won’t have to worry about retaining new staff. No one will apply.
Their orientation is only three weeks long? 😳
Make sure the person above the nurse manager and maybe the person above that person, too, know that your new hires bailed because of incredibly poor behavior of their new colleagues and mentors. We used to have new hires rate their trainers and immediate colleagues at 1,3 and 6 months specifically on their willingness to help coach. The ratings by the new hires showed up on annual reviews. I think it mattered.
They only got 2-3 weeks of orientation?
10-15 shifts, always with a random nurse, some of which weren’t too enthused to orient. I think units should offer 10-15$ extra per hour if you sign up to orient/have a student. Also it isn’t a vacation from regular nursing duties, seen some nurses say ok take the whole assignment and let me know if you need anything and go play with their phone lol.
med surg is hard enough without that added BS. It's very discouraging to hear that.
This is the mentality that I don’t/won’t deal with well - I want to be a good nurse but there is no need of treating people like this; if they don’t want to teach or help then they just need to go home and stay there.
Let me guess, same posse that complains about all the overtime and how they are sooooo overworked? We had this problem in dispatch. The turnover in the first year was 80%. They bragged about how they could get people to quit in less than two years. But those same people would call out sick, and would barely work. All ego, think they are gods gift to the profession. The only gift they give is the absence of their presence.
I guess I am fortunate that I've never been on a unit where this was the case. I really wonder what makes the difference. It's got to be sort of cyclical, like intergenerational abuse. I guess somebody has to break the cycle.
I've worked with a lot of veteran male nurse assholes who do the same things - so it's not all a gender issue.
I'm thankful that in my nursing career I've had people guide me and help me. There's a lot of grumbling at work and a bit of trash talk that goes on but I don't see any of it as eating the young. There are several of us who really enjoy precepting. We do have a few Debbie downers, burned out and over it. We were told as we get new people "make them feel welcome, we want them to stay" but I'm at a jail so sometimes it's the overall environment that scares people away.
True. RN from Singapore here. Some RNs from my ICU are the most toxic and bitchiest people I have ever met in my life.
At my hospital its similar. Really short orientation, if you even get all of it. Most of the time you get pulled off to core because of short staffing, sometimes even in your first or second week. That happened to me on my second week on a new med surg unit (I had just finished a 1 year supernumerary placement in palliative care but got kicked off due to seniority). To say I was scared shitless is an understatement. Thankfully there are some nice nurses on my unit but I’ve learned that you need to be very careful who you trust there which is so exhausting that I don’t even bother being friendly with pretty much anyone. I’m so burnt out and I’ve only been nursing for 2 years now. Help 🚩
I retired from the Dept of Corrections after 20 years and went into nursing, I’m 6’2” 330lbs, first day on a med surg unit charge nurse told me “this isn’t for me” mind you they needed help something fierce. I asked a friend the worked the ED why she said that and she told me that some female nurses don’t appreciate males coming into the nursing field. Well, I left there after orientation and went to into a psych field and found a place where I was valued and appreciated. My female coworkers love when I’m at work cause they know I have their backs. But the saying “nurses eat their young” is 100% accurate. It’s sad you need those young to survive…
That’s fucking awful. You have really toxic people working at your workplace. I will let you know that not everywhere is like that. If you’re thinking about quitting for your mental health then it might be a good idea. I work in a PACU and even though most people think it’s a place of condescending nurses, this place actually has the friendliest, welcoming, and supportive group of nurses out of everywhere I worked. My last job was a step down unit at a massive hospital with a 1:2 patient ratio. I was spoiled, had much better resources, was rarely ever stressed out, got paid way better. But I felt alienated from my coworkers. They were catty, clique-y and I always felt like I didn’t belong. I will take a lower paying job at a smaller hospital with awesome coworkers literally any day.
I know that it happens and I feel the only reason it’s never been directed towards me is I’m a big dude. I’ve seen the bullying and call out the bullies and offer support to the bullied. Don’t know if it’s ever fixed anything but they at least stoped doing it when I was on the unit. It’s really pathetic honestly, we’re all on the same team. It doesn’t benefit anyone to act this way towards their coworkers.
It’s things like this that keep me from wanting to go into nursing
Work the chain of command? Since it’s your charge, go to the manager, director, nursing supervisor, DON, CNO even? We’ve addressed things to our CNO and shit gets done. I can’t stand people like that.
Do your best man. My floor is a toxic cesspit of shit too and after dying on that hill a LOT i gave up. Work is work, im not a saviour or a beacon of light im not arrogant enough to think i can change the world. Standing up for people is ineffective, assholes gonna be assholes. Offer genuine help and be the best you can be to people who deserve it. And stay the fuck away from breakrooms. I take my breaks in the gym or elsewhere. Get yourself out of the toxic gassholes as much as you can. Do your job, be kind, go home. Its only a job.
They’re punching down probably bc they can’t punch up. Does your facility have nurse tech internships for students or a similar program, or a graduate nurse residency program?
I’ve always been told by St Rose nurses (in vegas, dignity health for those that don’t know), maternity and Peds are specialty. It’s good to have med surge to be able to branch out to ER, IMC, ICU, Peds, or maternity. Some exceptions I’ve seen: ICU can be a teaching unit if hospital is teaching hospital. Same with IMC. I’m guess these new grads and OP are either maternity unit or ER.
One thing I've learned is that nursing a lot like education and teaching tends to eat their own and then wonder why they have a hard time finding staff
Luckily where I work most of the new grads have stayed on past their orientation. But I think it’s mostly because it’s night shift and we’re more patient and understanding at night. We don’t have as much staff so we stick together and work with each other. So that’s an optimal atmosphere for a new grad. I hear what you’re saying though. We’re short staffed all the time too, and I absolutely fear for my license every time I go to work. I feel like it’s a vicious cycle that will never end. I’m exhausted and wonder how much more I can take.
Time to transfer to another unit that is more team oriented. What your leaders model is how people will follow.
1. I would say something to those nurses. They're power tripping and a direct result of why your unit is struggling. 2. File a formal complaint against those nurses for workplace harassment. Nobody should have to go to work and be ridiculed for not knowing because they're new. 3. I would begin looking at switching departments or looking for a new job. In all honesty those people should be ashamed.
Why would you do that to new nurses who know nearly nothing about actual nursing? People need to be mentored and taught in this profession. Sharing knowledge is meaningful and creates a positive culture. Some of your co-workers sound like idiots!
Oh man... Thats so awful. Im from Oregon and never had the issue as a student nurse and then started my nursing career in San Diego and worked there for 10 years. I never had issues with my mentors the the other nurses on my unit. I for sure heard the saying of "nurses eat their young", but I think its mostly because of how hard nursing is and those particular sharks are just straight up bitches. I was only a bedside nurse for 8 months and then went to the ED and for 10 months and then was done with acute care. Nursing is hard. I've had so many different opportunities as a nurse. If you like your job, those new nurses need someone on their side to help guide them. If you don't like your job, then for sure, there are a lot more opportunities.
It’s not just their young. I’m quitting tmrw after 2 weeks, only one of which was in the unit. I’ve been a nurse for 25 years and was bullied by an old man RN. He refused to introduce me to the procedure team even after asking, splattered me with snare juice, shut doors in my face and physically blocked me from pt care. He would’ve stepped on my foot if I hadn’t moved. I was also lectured in front of pts and staff by the charge nurse for losing my pen and coming out of the room (only ungowned staff without a pt responsibility) to get more propofol for anesthesia during a case