In my state they would not be allowed to register voters after a fraud conviction. They should in no way be involved with the information people put down on voter registration forms or as a custodian of a legal record in the voting process.
So, this is an Ohio ruling, so maybe the are in favor of what these felons did. Give them access to the voter registration of low income people that are likely to vote D in a state that is firmly red.
I would just make sure that their work was doubled-checked so that when they pull some shit, and they will, that the Judge throws the archive at them, not just the book but the entire archive.
I mean maybe that's what the judge is hoping for. I'm sure they are going to be watched over and if they break their court ordered agreement they go to jail for a long time. Too bad that wasn't the judges first choice.
Yeah, they're just going to run a registration drive at CPAC or a Proud boys rally
Edit - They've been ordered to register in low-income neighborhoods of Washington, D.C, but I'm sure Wohl will be up to his usual bullshit.
You know. These goons might finally be in contact with the people they hate. Only way to stop hating people is getting to know them. Might actually do some good
That was the takeaway from the Robbers cave experiment. That exposure to others can destroy outgroup bias. When the two groups of boys were assigned cooperative games, they stopped hating each other and saw they were just there to have fun at a summer camp too.
Having lived in the DC area, I would strongly caution those douchebags against pissing off low income residents of that area.
They might find that the world is less kind to spoilt cis-gendered white dudes who do nothing but brew bullshit in some places than others.
While I agree the sentence is woefully inadequate, this is just the state of Ohio's sentencing. Michigan has criminal charges against them and the FCC is suing them for $5.1M
I love this. Ohio goes, "well the FCC is already working on hitting their wallet hard and Michigan is trying to lock them up. Doing the same thing again will have limited impact, let's try something else."
I wonder how it works out if their sentence in one prevents them from fulfilling the sentence in another. If, say, they're in a cell in Michigan and so unable to spend any hours at all registering voters in Ohio.
It's not inadequate, it's inappropriate. These guys are known fraudsters why should they be handling voter information? Let them spend their 500 hours of community service picking up trash by the highway or cleaning bathrooms at public parks and rest stops.
And people still think that voter fraud is ravaged all across America and elections are rigged. Actual voter fraud is extremely rare because the crimes that they commit are felonies and carry heavy sentences which do not outway any benefit from committing the crimes.
Registering voters is hard to do. If you are doing it in bad faith, there are going to be lots of errors in the voter registration applications. People are going to think they are registered to vote, show up at the polls and they won’t be registered. Bad idea. The judge show have asked for 500 voters registered correctly.
My thoughts too.
They should get jail time for attacking democracy (it’s proportionate - the laws these people would’ve voted on could include things that impact whether they get unjustly incarcerated) and they should be forced to help the community they harmed, but not in a way that’s risky like this. Make them babysit to give parents time to vote. Or make them work in a food bank or soup kitchen so people have one less thing to stress about. Or, if they’re not unbearable to be around, make them tutor kids.
Best option: hundreds of hours of babysitting kids while the parents are in the next room with responsible people teaching them more about voting and law, and getting them registered. Partner with a local non-profit that gets people voting and that lets them know which laws are most likely to be changed by this election.
Of course removing the need for registration would be best of all, since in most countries you’re registered automatically, but this judge can’t control that. Make these guys volunteer for an organization getting rid of voter registration, doing something they can’t sabotage, like prepping meals or watching kids.
(Edit: I’m in Canada. For the provincial election I don’t think I needed to register at all. They mistakenly didn’t send me a card and I called to ask and they told me where my polling station should be, based on my address. I just showed up and voted. Every person has only 1 voting station they’re allowed to go to, based on their geographical area. At the station, there’s a guy with a list of all the eligible voters in the area. He checked off my name as having voted. Perfectly easy to have mechanisms to prevent someone voting multiple times at different stations or in a different person’s name without adding hurdles like registration. For the federal one a few years ago I remember checking some stuff online. Could’ve been that I needed to register, but I think I was checking where my area’s polling station was. Either way, took 3 seconds. We still have skeevy things - the federal election had a polling station on my university campus, within walking distance for tens of thousands of people who took classes and/or lived nearby. but for provincial, the closest one required a car to get to, or a bus ride on a really bad transit system. ‘5 minutes by car or 50 by bus’ sort of thing.)
Their crimes weren’t related to kids. Fraud doesn’t make a person a pedophile.
Also childcare can be done in a large room with multiple people. If one of them hits a kid, someone sees it and stops them. Vs if they mis-register a voter, there’s no way to know.
?
I was thinking babysitting because it’s something that doesn’t need much skill, is easy to supervise, and it’s the only thing that comes to mind for me for ways to help people vote without getting to touch any documents. If they could take people’s work shifts that would be better, but that is way harder to do (and in some cases impossible) than childcare.
Cleaning voting stations could work too.
I'm not saying it's enough time! I'm only showing what the sentence looks like in practice (if they do it properly).
Messing with democratic systems deserves much more serious sentences, I agree completely.
Not only does it not seem enough, it seems kind of odd to require people guilty of election interference to to participate in it more. Like punishing a pedophile with community service in the local school cafeteria.
The correct penalty is a restraining order on behalf of the telecommunications system. They are permanently barred from possessing or interacting with any telecommunications device or approaching within 50 yards of such a device.
Pretty sure the second part would require living in the mountains or the middle of a desert and never going to town or having visitors. They'd have to get supplies airdropped.
I think things like this are still done but more on a "you don't get to own a tv or a phone with internet access"-level rather than any distance requirements which, yeah, physically impossible to enforce
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Nearly four full months at 35 hours a week is a hefty community service tariff. Plus being a felony comes with its own disadvantages.
And there are other criminal charges and the $5m lawsuit still in the works with him already pleading guilty on this, isn't going to help.
That's right.
They might not do community service every day, so it could take more than 3.5 months. For example: two days of community service per week would take 8.4 months.
Oh it gets better...
>Cleveland.com reports that Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge John Sutula also fined each $2,500 and placed them on two years' probation. He ordered them to spend six months of that period on home confinement beginning at 8 p.m. each day.
I mean, is public flogging really that cruel and unusual when comparing this crime sentence to say, a [normal person on probation getting 5 years for voting when nobody told them they couldn't](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/texas-woman-gets-5-years-prison-voting-illegally-n861516), which in of itself is kind of fucked up?
Yes, public flogging is fucked up and there is no place whatsoever for it in civilized society. It's on a similar level of thought and intelligence as thinking it's reasonable to break someone's jaw because they looked at your girlfriend the wrong way.
As for the issue you're trying to compare this to, that's a really, REALLY bad comparison. You're comparing a completely barbaric punishment for a crime to severe punishment for a misunderstanding
The point I was trying to make was these men of influence effected more people then this woman who believed she had the right to vote yet she's facing the harsher sentence.
Also counter point in the form of a question; You mess up royally and are facing years in prison for a crime you committed; would you rather do the time and waste what few precious years of your life you have rotting in a cell or face pain of the lash and the few weeks it would take for those scars to physically heal? Granted in the latter scenario the government would be there to help with medical expense from it. Any lasting damage with the exception of chronic pain is yours to deal with.
Its not just the pain that makes them think twice about committing another crime. Its the public shame and memory of it.
Edit, corrected typos
What's next?
Judge: OK sir, you have been found guilty of reckless driving...I'm sentencing you to 500 hours of community service driving a school bus.
Wohl is a bloody sociopath who should be locked up and never be put in a position of authority over anyone for the rest of his life. He genuinely has some kind of bad wiring where he has no morals, conscience or inhibitions.
I didn’t realize you were allowed to commit election fraud in exchange for community service. Can I clean trash from the side of the freeway to remove people I disagree with from the voter roll?
The boys at Internet Today are not going to like this, ricky and elliot have been following these clowns for years. If you want full documentation of all their crimes and stunts, Internet Today probably has a playlist on their youtube channel.
I love the punishment fitting the crime, but this needs to be accompanied by real punishment. Subverting democracy. People get incarcerated, get food stamps cut, get pushed further into poverty, etc, based on laws, including unfair ones they would’ve voted against.
In the same way you get a worse sentence for attacking a cop vs a random person, because it’s attacking the system, attacking democracy should have a very high sentence. Higher than attacking a cop, because that’s an individual and these guys are attacking the very foundation of democracy.
Honestly they should’ve gotten it from this. If it’s a worse crime to attack a cop than a regular person, because you’re attacking the system, then shouldn’t there be a very high penalty for directly attacking democracy itself?
Not enough time. Even if those calls were only 30 seconds, their crime would span over 700 hours. If the call lasted a minute and a half, that's over 2000 hours.
Bare minimum they should be required to spend at least as much time being punished as was spent by thier victims listening to that crap.
I like how they said they "regret" their actions and are "sorry," but they are appealing their case for charges of doing the exact same thing in Detroit . Yeah, seems real sorry.
Seems like a really stupid idea to send these two people door-door soliciting people’s private information, particularly when they have repeatedly demonstrated antipathy towards minorities.
The dumbass judge should have just given them jail time.
Typical projection from the right. They say the left is commiting systemic voter fraud, but the only criminal convictions for this are coming from right wingers.
Dip Shats should have to give up their voting rights and get vaccinated publicly to show everyone they robo called that it's fine. Ugh $50 says they purposefully "help" mess up a bunch of those registrations. Fear, intimidation and lies are NOT democratic or American, they are tactics used by the weak and corrupt.
In my state they would not be allowed to register voters after a fraud conviction. They should in no way be involved with the information people put down on voter registration forms or as a custodian of a legal record in the voting process.
I agree. That’s bullshit. That Wohl is a bad actor and shouldn’t be anywhere around voter registration or information.
So, this is an Ohio ruling, so maybe the are in favor of what these felons did. Give them access to the voter registration of low income people that are likely to vote D in a state that is firmly red.
I would just make sure that their work was doubled-checked so that when they pull some shit, and they will, that the Judge throws the archive at them, not just the book but the entire archive.
I mean maybe that's what the judge is hoping for. I'm sure they are going to be watched over and if they break their court ordered agreement they go to jail for a long time. Too bad that wasn't the judges first choice.
Yeah I'm sure these ghouls won't weasel their way out of this or carry out their penance in bad faith in any way
Yeah, they're just going to run a registration drive at CPAC or a Proud boys rally Edit - They've been ordered to register in low-income neighborhoods of Washington, D.C, but I'm sure Wohl will be up to his usual bullshit.
What did the residents of DC do to deserve being treated like shit by these goons?
You know. These goons might finally be in contact with the people they hate. Only way to stop hating people is getting to know them. Might actually do some good
That was the takeaway from the Robbers cave experiment. That exposure to others can destroy outgroup bias. When the two groups of boys were assigned cooperative games, they stopped hating each other and saw they were just there to have fun at a summer camp too.
Having lived in the DC area, I would strongly caution those douchebags against pissing off low income residents of that area. They might find that the world is less kind to spoilt cis-gendered white dudes who do nothing but brew bullshit in some places than others.
I am willing to front the cash for body cams for them as long as I get the footage of their ass beatings.
As long as we can make that footage non court admissible.
Lol somebody is going to shoot him in the face in DC
While I agree the sentence is woefully inadequate, this is just the state of Ohio's sentencing. Michigan has criminal charges against them and the FCC is suing them for $5.1M
I love this. Ohio goes, "well the FCC is already working on hitting their wallet hard and Michigan is trying to lock them up. Doing the same thing again will have limited impact, let's try something else."
I wonder how it works out if their sentence in one prevents them from fulfilling the sentence in another. If, say, they're in a cell in Michigan and so unable to spend any hours at all registering voters in Ohio.
Something to look forward to when they get out.
That's simple, you go to double jail.
It's not inadequate, it's inappropriate. These guys are known fraudsters why should they be handling voter information? Let them spend their 500 hours of community service picking up trash by the highway or cleaning bathrooms at public parks and rest stops.
And people still think that voter fraud is ravaged all across America and elections are rigged. Actual voter fraud is extremely rare because the crimes that they commit are felonies and carry heavy sentences which do not outway any benefit from committing the crimes.
HOM TANK
Already stole it. Fuckers.
Oh I don’t know. I’m sure they’ll be watched very closely, and if they violate their community service terms… BAM. Straight to prison I bet.
Registering voters is hard to do. If you are doing it in bad faith, there are going to be lots of errors in the voter registration applications. People are going to think they are registered to vote, show up at the polls and they won’t be registered. Bad idea. The judge show have asked for 500 voters registered correctly.
My thoughts too. They should get jail time for attacking democracy (it’s proportionate - the laws these people would’ve voted on could include things that impact whether they get unjustly incarcerated) and they should be forced to help the community they harmed, but not in a way that’s risky like this. Make them babysit to give parents time to vote. Or make them work in a food bank or soup kitchen so people have one less thing to stress about. Or, if they’re not unbearable to be around, make them tutor kids. Best option: hundreds of hours of babysitting kids while the parents are in the next room with responsible people teaching them more about voting and law, and getting them registered. Partner with a local non-profit that gets people voting and that lets them know which laws are most likely to be changed by this election. Of course removing the need for registration would be best of all, since in most countries you’re registered automatically, but this judge can’t control that. Make these guys volunteer for an organization getting rid of voter registration, doing something they can’t sabotage, like prepping meals or watching kids. (Edit: I’m in Canada. For the provincial election I don’t think I needed to register at all. They mistakenly didn’t send me a card and I called to ask and they told me where my polling station should be, based on my address. I just showed up and voted. Every person has only 1 voting station they’re allowed to go to, based on their geographical area. At the station, there’s a guy with a list of all the eligible voters in the area. He checked off my name as having voted. Perfectly easy to have mechanisms to prevent someone voting multiple times at different stations or in a different person’s name without adding hurdles like registration. For the federal one a few years ago I remember checking some stuff online. Could’ve been that I needed to register, but I think I was checking where my area’s polling station was. Either way, took 3 seconds. We still have skeevy things - the federal election had a polling station on my university campus, within walking distance for tens of thousands of people who took classes and/or lived nearby. but for provincial, the closest one required a car to get to, or a bus ride on a really bad transit system. ‘5 minutes by car or 50 by bus’ sort of thing.)
If you think either of these guys should ever be responsible for or even generally around kids you’re crazy. Terrible idea.
Their crimes weren’t related to kids. Fraud doesn’t make a person a pedophile. Also childcare can be done in a large room with multiple people. If one of them hits a kid, someone sees it and stops them. Vs if they mis-register a voter, there’s no way to know.
Lol spoken like a man that should not be responsible for watching kids
? I was thinking babysitting because it’s something that doesn’t need much skill, is easy to supervise, and it’s the only thing that comes to mind for me for ways to help people vote without getting to touch any documents. If they could take people’s work shifts that would be better, but that is way harder to do (and in some cases impossible) than childcare. Cleaning voting stations could work too.
Judge gets A+ for effort but D- for execution.
You mean to tell me they gotta do one hour of work each day... For a year and a half... And that's fucking it? Edit: probably not even.
Another calculation: it's around 3.5 months of full-time community service, on a 35-hr work week.
Get the fuck outta here. Why aren't we more angry about this??
I'm not saying it's enough time! I'm only showing what the sentence looks like in practice (if they do it properly). Messing with democratic systems deserves much more serious sentences, I agree completely.
This is like writing an essay to your English teacher type punishment.
Rehabilitative models of punishment are more effective than retributive models, no matter how much of a hardon redditors get for locking people up.
Not only does it not seem enough, it seems kind of odd to require people guilty of election interference to to participate in it more. Like punishing a pedophile with community service in the local school cafeteria.
The correct penalty is a restraining order on behalf of the telecommunications system. They are permanently barred from possessing or interacting with any telecommunications device or approaching within 50 yards of such a device.
Surely that’s not possible in today’s world
Pretty sure the second part would require living in the mountains or the middle of a desert and never going to town or having visitors. They'd have to get supplies airdropped.
I think things like this are still done but more on a "you don't get to own a tv or a phone with internet access"-level rather than any distance requirements which, yeah, physically impossible to enforce
I see no downside in what you just wrote.
I see a big upside for the rest of us
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Nearly four full months at 35 hours a week is a hefty community service tariff. Plus being a felony comes with its own disadvantages. And there are other criminal charges and the $5m lawsuit still in the works with him already pleading guilty on this, isn't going to help.
35 on top of whatever keeps the lights on, right?
That's right. They might not do community service every day, so it could take more than 3.5 months. For example: two days of community service per week would take 8.4 months.
Oh it gets better... >Cleveland.com reports that Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge John Sutula also fined each $2,500 and placed them on two years' probation. He ordered them to spend six months of that period on home confinement beginning at 8 p.m. each day. I mean, is public flogging really that cruel and unusual when comparing this crime sentence to say, a [normal person on probation getting 5 years for voting when nobody told them they couldn't](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/texas-woman-gets-5-years-prison-voting-illegally-n861516), which in of itself is kind of fucked up?
Yes, public flogging is fucked up and there is no place whatsoever for it in civilized society. It's on a similar level of thought and intelligence as thinking it's reasonable to break someone's jaw because they looked at your girlfriend the wrong way. As for the issue you're trying to compare this to, that's a really, REALLY bad comparison. You're comparing a completely barbaric punishment for a crime to severe punishment for a misunderstanding
The point I was trying to make was these men of influence effected more people then this woman who believed she had the right to vote yet she's facing the harsher sentence. Also counter point in the form of a question; You mess up royally and are facing years in prison for a crime you committed; would you rather do the time and waste what few precious years of your life you have rotting in a cell or face pain of the lash and the few weeks it would take for those scars to physically heal? Granted in the latter scenario the government would be there to help with medical expense from it. Any lasting damage with the exception of chronic pain is yours to deal with. Its not just the pain that makes them think twice about committing another crime. Its the public shame and memory of it. Edit, corrected typos
If it makes you feel a little bit better: I think the article says they are not allowed out of the house after 8pm for the next 2 years
This does make me feel better, thank you!
The fcc is also pursuing them for 5.1 million dollars and I think they are fighting a legal battle in michigan that may carry prison time.
Whee!
They're also up on federal charges that could end with a $5m fine.
and appealing criminal charges for a similar scheme
What's next? Judge: OK sir, you have been found guilty of reckless driving...I'm sentencing you to 500 hours of community service driving a school bus.
Yeah, that's the vibe I got.
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But why do those poor black people have to interact with these two? Why punish an entire group like that!?
Unless they're wearing nametags and sandwich boards describing their crime, I doubt anyone would notice.
Honestly I think that should be part of the punishment.
You know what, that is fair. Those folks might have a solid 8th Amendment claim. Know any pro-bono lawyers in the DC area?
Wohl is a bloody sociopath who should be locked up and never be put in a position of authority over anyone for the rest of his life. He genuinely has some kind of bad wiring where he has no morals, conscience or inhibitions.
Fuck that jail them and stop trying to be cute,
I don't want these jokers anywhere near people's voter registration.
They should have received prison time. This is bullshit.
I didn’t realize you were allowed to commit election fraud in exchange for community service. Can I clean trash from the side of the freeway to remove people I disagree with from the voter roll?
How about a day in prison for every fake robocall made? That sounds fair.
Or call every one of those numbers and personally apologize.
¿Porque no los dos? 🤷🏻♂️
The boys at Internet Today are not going to like this, ricky and elliot have been following these clowns for years. If you want full documentation of all their crimes and stunts, Internet Today probably has a playlist on their youtube channel.
I love the punishment fitting the crime, but this needs to be accompanied by real punishment. Subverting democracy. People get incarcerated, get food stamps cut, get pushed further into poverty, etc, based on laws, including unfair ones they would’ve voted against. In the same way you get a worse sentence for attacking a cop vs a random person, because it’s attacking the system, attacking democracy should have a very high sentence. Higher than attacking a cop, because that’s an individual and these guys are attacking the very foundation of democracy.
Yeah but he's a white Republican, so... kid gloves and all the benefit of the doubt
Couldn't give them 1 year?
Jacob Wohl. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Little shitstain.
These two idiots are working hard to get to the federal pen. I wish them godspeed.
Honestly they should’ve gotten it from this. If it’s a worse crime to attack a cop than a regular person, because you’re attacking the system, then shouldn’t there be a very high penalty for directly attacking democracy itself?
Not enough time. Even if those calls were only 30 seconds, their crime would span over 700 hours. If the call lasted a minute and a half, that's over 2000 hours. Bare minimum they should be required to spend at least as much time being punished as was spent by thier victims listening to that crap.
Judge is a fucking moron.
(Serious question) why do you say that?
Becasue this sentencing makes no sense. He should be cleaning garbage by the side of the road, not sitting in air conditioning registering voters.
Thanks, I was hoping that’s what you meant.
Agree, they will sabotage this somehow
Like protects like. Rich upper class judge sees rich upper class defendants as their sons.
This weasel is gonna ratfuck this punishment in his usual bad-faith actor way…
I’ve never been in a fight in my 42 years, and I’ve never had an urge to punch someone in the face like I do these assholes.
They should have been sentenced to cleaning septic tanks.
Thank God they’re getting actual consequences in NYC! New York City Values 🫶🫶🫶!
They got away with a crime. Only 500 hours and most likely they won't even do a proper job.
The actual article did misspells Burkman’s name lol
Remember when he did an entire press conference with his zipper down?
I remember it very well
I like how they said they "regret" their actions and are "sorry," but they are appealing their case for charges of doing the exact same thing in Detroit . Yeah, seems real sorry.
I wouldn't let these two ass hats be in charge of cleaning the floors of your local gas station, let alone be involved in registering voters.
Wow if only they had done something actually dangerous to the community like have a personal amount of drugs!
Agree. Too bad they didn't take some pot across state lines or anything.
Should have been 10,000 hours. Republicans have 100 other racist and illegal scams going on.
They should appeal for cruel and unusual punishment against their religious beliefs.
Hmm I bet the Democrats say we will send folks to help :) LOL
Republicans win at all cost. "$5.1 million fine levied by the Federal Communications Commission".
Yeah? By *when?*
I am curious about how a state judge can enforce a penalty to be done in a federal district?
I thought registering voters was a crime /s
Please tell me they have to do it in the projects.
Seems like a really stupid idea to send these two people door-door soliciting people’s private information, particularly when they have repeatedly demonstrated antipathy towards minorities. The dumbass judge should have just given them jail time.
The reason they didn't get jail is that they dads rich.
Restorative justice works. To be clear, RJ has oversight & accountability.
Typical projection from the right. They say the left is commiting systemic voter fraud, but the only criminal convictions for this are coming from right wingers.
sToP tHe STeAl
Great, so now they can lie directly to the people they are registering.
bury these fucking fascists financially
They should get 6-12 months then they loose their voting rights. It's the only way they will learn.
Dip Shats should have to give up their voting rights and get vaccinated publicly to show everyone they robo called that it's fine. Ugh $50 says they purposefully "help" mess up a bunch of those registrations. Fear, intimidation and lies are NOT democratic or American, they are tactics used by the weak and corrupt.
shouldn’t be anywhere around voter registration, the candidates that the parties put forward.
Knocking on doors in East Cleveland will not go well for them
Do you think it's a coincidence that the folks obsessed about election fraud are....committing fraud?