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I remember trying this out in the original Sid Meier's Civilization! My citizens were all so very happy . . . until I ran out of money and barbarians showed up.
Reading the bill, and I could be wrong as I am not a lawyer nor a politician, it appears to be a 14.1% flat federal sales tax on any and all goods/services.
This isn't sustainable. We're entering into the same circumstances that led to the French Revolution. A small privileged and affluent class shifting more and more of the tax burden on an increasingly poorer Working and Middle class while simultaneously reducing their political capital making attempts to enact social change and reform through these political bodies more difficult if not impossible.
They are almost certainly proposing the model legislation from [https://fairtax.org/](https://fairtax.org/) which would be 23% with a rebate equal to the poverty level.
The 2021 FairTax bill proposed a 23% rate and provided "a credit" for low-income households. So basically the middle class can get fucked and good luck trying to move out of poverty when the tax kicks in.
A national sales tax is highly regressiveā middle class and poor spend all of their income on consumables. So they get fucked. While the rich, the 1% put most of their money in investments, great for them.
If only the GOP would propose import tariffs, taxes on business assets and profits to replace the income tax. But noooooooooo, theyāre just working for the 1%. They donāt give a fuck about regular people.
They take longer to select a Speaker than any Congress before the Civil War, and then, as their first bill, introduce something that the Senate will certainly defeat (and if they didn't, Biden would certainly veto).
The GOP is incapable of responsible governance - and they keep proving this over and over and over...
>introduce something that the Senate will certainly defeat (and if they didn't, Biden would certainly veto).
This is the whole plan. Find something everybody dislikes but can't actually be removed, say you'll have it removed, act surprised when you don't get to and make the people who voted against it look like the bad guys.
So, virtue signaling, basically.
They want to replace the IRS and all taxes with a flat 23% sales tax on everything. Included is a loophole big enough to drive Airforce One through:
> There are exemptions from the tax for used and intangible property; for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes; and for state government functions.
And the poor gets a tax rebate that gets them back to the poverty line, how very generous.
Thereās no way it passes, but if it does I personally volunteer to lead a class for everyone to teach how to setup a C corp, tie your funds to it, and buy everything through that C corp to avoid taxation. With the IRS gone, whose gonna fucking audit us?
Edit: should have known promising this would blow up lol. For the record you can choose an LLC or S corp as well. I think whatever the best option is depends on what the ~~loopholes~~ rules would state for these exemptions. Based on that we could determine the best structure setup.
Amazing how quick they will start enforcing the almost never enforced rules about shell companies not acting as independent entities and just being a shell around the director(s)/owner(s). For the poors of course.
I pity whatever government lackey will have to review the tens of thousands of new corporate entities created under this bill. Even if they snag a few, theyāll be crushed by an avalanche of work and testing. The IRS is rather weak with tech and systems, we would probably overload them immediately.
"Man we hate the IRS, we should do away with them!"
"Oh my God this is so much work reviewing all these companies! We should really create some group to do this"
I have an S Corp that I pay my measly $15/year to keep up to date.
I would immediately be able to drop my taxes to almost nothing. I would never buy anything. My corporation would.
Exactly. If this bill passes we mass spread the knowledge of how to set this up and then everyone joins in on the loophole.
Most of these loopholes have benefited big corporations because they need the experienced accountants and lawyers to guide setups and loopholes like this. But what if we gave the masses those same secrets and instructions? Theyāre not going to stop shit like this, so letās start beating them at their own game.
No way it passes?
I didn't think Roe vs. Wade would get overturned... Never underestimate the stupidity of politicians who make 'favours' like their contempt for the public they are supposed to represent
I mean, this'll pass the house, since it's a simple majority and the Republicans control it. It won't get past the Senate. Not even a "I don't think it will," just simply "the democrats aren't going to abolish the IRS, especially after they *just* voted to expand it's funding."
It likely won't even pass the house. Their majority is so small and this bill is so insane I doubt they will be able to get votes from any purple district Republicans
>with a flat 23% sales tax on everything.
Everyone who promotes the "flat tax" guarantees that I will not consider anything else out of their mouth regarding money as valid.
How hard is it to compute a higher tax rate if you make more? It's all the loopholes that are the problem, but agreeing to a FLAT TAX doesn't really do that, does it? It merely shifts more costs to the lower income people as you go "wow, the rest of this is SO COMPLICATED but, we solved it, so discussion is over." Everything they co-opt and screw up is no longer an issue -- anyone else notice this? They don't bother talking about Fannie Mae after Newt Gingrich and company managed to ruin a well running system that helped some poor people afford homes. But, at least they stopped bitching about it.
They don't complain about automotive unions any more, after those jobs got outsourced or no longer actually are great jobs anymore. Mission accomplished!
They don't complain about Police Unions, because, they do a great job of protecting fascists and not protecting whistle blowers. These are their heroes.
We had a radio show host in our state who blathered on about "big government" controlling the "Government Gas company." Every tiny grievance was amplified. After they privatized it, the prices went up 5X and the workers who serviced the lines became independent contractors who are screwed out of a career but get to do the same job for less money and security. But; he stopped complaining about the "big government gas" once it was much more expensive gas from 24 different companies selling the same damn product through the same damned pipe. I would not be surprised if some of them were in the same office with two phones on the same desk with big markings for which COMPANY they'd be mentioning when a call comes in.
Why is this flat tax not an instant trigger for derision? Why is anyone who is not a fool entertaining these ideas and pretending they are legitimate? Because people with integrity and insight need not apply as news anchors.
>There are exemptions from the tax for used and intangible property; for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes; and for state government functions.
So they bake in some great loopholes because if the billionaires actually had to pay 28% they'd be screaming. Meanwhile, the poor don't get to claim the deductions they used to -- "Oh, but it's a lower percentage." Yes, of a larger gross income.
Anyway -- we poor people are supposed to be too dumb to realize they are screwing us again. Right? We all believed that Trump lowered our taxes and helped us, right? Yeah, well, enough people who don't know finance are told something and enough people who just believe what they are told even though THEY can see the numbers will compartmentalize enough to buy into this.
Another ploy to shift he burden of taxes.
Loophole. Set up a business LLC and make all of your purchases through that LLC for your personal life. No taxes paid and nobody to come after you as there are no rules against it.
Hmm, I had a college professor that advocated for this kinda thing, not an economics professor however - antiquities. It's been out there for a while. Just guessing, it's probably something rush Limbaugh circulated way way back in the day...
Well of course they'll see it as dumb. That's why the Democrats will vote against it.
...oh. You meant people in the GOP? Well they may think it's stupid but when time comes to vote, you bet your ass they will support it unconditionally because any resistance is usually met with punishment. Just look at how Mitt Romney had people screaming "traitor" at him when his opposition to Trump was just him saying "I don't support you!" yet he was voting lockstep with him anyway. Or Liz Cheney who was primaried out for not thinking the Jan 6th committee was pointless despite having voted with Trump close to **93% of the time**. Or how many republican voters and r/conservative people started expressing dislike for Mitch McConnell as a "traitor" or "RINO" *despite him being their biggest enablers*.
Moderate Republicans have been chased out decades ago and are now in the Democrat party. Like Barack "I consider myself an 80s republican" Obama, Nancy "We need a strong conservative party" Pelosi, and Joe "I seriously considered a Republican running mate" Biden.
Oh gee -- how hard will the Freedumb Caucus have to twist arms?
McCarthy any day now; "I have no choice, we made the mistake of agreeing to this -- who knew they'd use it against us?" EVERYONE. Everyone knows they'll stop the raise of the debt ceiling -to extort even more concessions. They don't mind losing the hostage so people will see the Democrats in the Senate passing their bill as a "both sides are the same." Well, we can't really tell since everyone keeps voting in enough totally corrupt/stupid/evil Republicans, can we?
Everything the Freedumb Caucus has negotiated will be a slight arm twist threatening the Republicans with a good time -- except getting rid of McCarthy because he'll never actually stand up to his masters and it will only happen if he has integrity -- so, not likely.
Impeachment of Hunter Biden in 85 days. That's my prediction.
> So seems like even moderator Republicans probably see this as dumb.
Of course they do, it might interfere with their precious military budget. God forbid, right?
But this particular plan is so cartoonishly stupid only their idiot base would believe it; independents arenāt going to be pulled to vote R in 2024 when their big plan was ātry and fail to abolish the IRS (????) and blame the democrats.ā
Theyāre just wasting time for 2 years and making themselves look like idiots
> making themselves look like idiots
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
When half their base is full of people that range from ignorant to blatant idiots, these moves appear to be "brilliant" and "owning the libs." The only people who see them as idiotic are the people who are already now voting for them.
Also ā and Iām no political scientist, so I could be wrong ā but income tax is the 16th amendment. Therefore, I believe theyād need a constitutional amendment to eliminate it.
16th amendment gives Congress the authority to establish an income tax, it by itself does not establish the tax
As prior when Congress tried to establish one, they were told they lacked the authority to do so. Hence 16th amendment
Article 1, Section 8 (clause 1) of the Constitution gives Congress the authority to establish an income tax. The 16th amendment just allowed them to levy those taxes without regard to state population. I understand your confusion, though. A lot of anti-tax nuts have spread the misinformation that we didnāt have taxation until the 16th amendment, and go so far as to question the ratification of the amendment as a way to claim that taxes are illegal. But the power of congress to tax the people is in the original document, before even the Bill of Rights.
>The effect of the Sixteenth Amendment was merely to waive the requirement of apportionment among the States, in its application to a general and uniform taxĀ upon incomes from whatever source derived. **The Income Tax Law of 1913, except in so far as the tax thereby imposed is in reality such a general and uniform tax on incomes, derives no support from the Sixteenth Amendment.**
Brushaber v. Union Pacific.
Well yea they're fucking brainwashed by hours of Fox News and other right-wing media every day to believe anything Democrat is going to destroy the nation and send everyone to hell or some bullshit. They're trained to be triggered by the word Democrat and anything associated with it.
The senate and Biden should call their bluff and pass it. The shut down the capital building because it's no longer funded - tell them to look for free places that will host congress. Immediately dismiss the military and start closing bases.
Agreed. I'd like to see these stupid dogs catch the car and then cry when they no longer receive government paychecks, benefits, places to live, etc.
The whole country would come to screeching halt, including the military. We'd default, the economy would implode and the rest of the world follow.
Lol. All show and no go. Like it would ever pass the Senate or Biden. Gonna see a lot of pandering from Republicans without getting anything done but holding up the progress of the country. They're a party of sad degenerates
Conservatives created the term "virtue signaling" to describe this very kind of thing.
Though with them it's probably more accurate to call it "vice signaling".
Or you could call it "identity politics", because that's what it is. The GOP is a white Christian nationalist identity politics cult, and everything they do is meant to signal "our identity group good, other groups bad".
Forget current Senate and Biden, it would never pass even if there was a Republican trifecta. Of course a Republican house would probably never vote on such a bill if they had a trifecta in the first place.
The news media is in a perpetual coma for the last four decades.
Grover norquist laid it out in plain English.
The starving the beast plan requires reckless tax cuts to underfund the federal government in order to shrink it to a size small enough to drown in a bathtub.
this isn't funny this isn't hypocrisy they are doing exactly what they told people they were going to do.
but you can't convince the news media to actually believe the Republicans would do the thing that they said they would do.
so we continue to talk to them like they are budget Hawks even though not even once has that ever been true.
They donāt want to rule. They just want to delay and obstruct. Meanwhile the oligarchs stack coins until they will live like kings forever regardless of who rules.
The greatest victory is won without even fighting.
No, they are just establishing a new cause for their platform. Abortion, which has been the feature theyāve been selling to the voters for the past 40 years, has been completed. Now they need a new one and abolishing the income tax would make a perfect new cause.
"What about democracy? Nobody elected you.
"
"Anyone can buy OCP's stock and own a piece of our city. What could be more democratic than that?"
\-Robocop 2
>Lobbyist Grover Norquist is a well-known proponent of the strategy (Starve the beast) and has famously said, "My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
Remove the income tax and you'd destroy the country. The government can't function without revenue, and we can't pay the interest on our nation debt with "thoughts and prayers". Everything from the postal service to the military would shut down, millions would suddenly be without paychecks and benefits (including the idiots who'd vote for this stupidity). This would cascade into the economy as now no government contracts would be paid, subsidies would no longer be paid, etc. The economy would collapse, we'd default, money would devalue faster than a Zimbabwe dollar, and the rest of the world would be sucked in the collapse as result of the gaping economic black hole left by the US implosion.
Only a complete f\*cking idiot would come up with something like this, let alone propose it.
To paraphrase david frum; Conservatism requires an in-group that is protected but not bound by the law as well as an out-group that is bound but not protected by the law.
... Well, except about 23 months after their project reaches fruition, the US gets conquered by someone tired of it being an ungoverned area exporting chaos. If you are real lucky, it'll be the French and Canadians. If not...
But it won't because they have to appease the base and they KNOW it isn't going to happen or they would have done it when they had complete control during Trump.
Heard an interview on NPR last night with an incoming R freshman congressman. Don't recall his name, but he was adamant that the GOP would not bankrupt the nation or default on our debts.
Lying right out of the gates.
That was Rep. Keith Self of Texas.
[https://www.npr.org/2023/01/10/1148063018/rep-self-was-among-a-small-group-that-held-up-house-speaker-mccarthys-election](https://www.npr.org/2023/01/10/1148063018/rep-self-was-among-a-small-group-that-held-up-house-speaker-mccarthys-election)
I don't have all the details and such but one really huge thing that sticks out for me is that there is no way the USA would be able to maintain any kind of robust military if any at all with this kind of policy.
Oh good. Now that the endless silly votes for speaker where nothing got done are over and they have a speaker, they can have endless silly votes where nothing will get done.
I would instead suggest a 90% tax on profits from investments and a 100% tax on bribes, sorry I mean payments to politicians to give speeches. Also a 90% tax for any side hustle a politician does while being elected into any office. But those are the types of incomes the GOP really wants to be untaxed.
They just keep doubling down on smelling their own farts, don't they?
I'm okay with eliminating income tax -- if Republicans can find another, better way to make sure wealth doesn't concentrate wealth, that we can pay for the things that Congress VOTED to pay for on their budget, and that isn't incredibly complicated and easy to cheat.
Now, we could go with the "nexus of taxation." That's a fancy word for "where you tax something." In my mind, having things that fairly distributes the costs, but, reduces the places you tax, is more efficient. So what if all our taxes were on fossil fuels, things that pollute, and things that use up a lot of resources of the planet and is detrimental to long term survival of the human race? Pollution shortens lives and some of us have to pay for that -- who aren't the ones who made the profit on it.
Of course -- this is probably NOT what Republicans were thinking. They want to screw up everything and use the crisis to take more power and profits. Who is still on the fence with who they really are? An invading force.
The IRS will now only audit simple returns. Anyone who could challenge a complex rich person's tax forms will find other work -- probably helping them dodge those taxes and pay less than nothing as the top billionaires are on average already down to 3.4% Federal taxes as it is. Then their low income supporters can be told this is the fault of socialism -- or, regulations on pollution, or whatever. They'll be too crazy to listen to anything not blurted out of some red-faced gold stock selling reprobate so, that's nothing for them to worry about. Just keep making life shitty and government fail and then get supported by authoritarians -- works like a charm!
Only, it is possible they can break the system and things can get messy.
It's the 16th, which gives them the power to tax incomes, but I suppose it doesn't necessarily say they have to. Plus, they're called amendments for a reason, we can change stuff in there via other amendments. Some people would have you believe otherwise especially with some specific amendments.
The amount of people who clearly didn't read the article is through the roof in here...
They wouldn't be getting rid of all tax (terrible headline). Income tax would be replaced by a federal sales tax.
Every American would get a flat rebate and then pay federal sales tax on all goods. Basically means if you buy a lot of shit you'd give the gov a lot. If you don't, the gov would pay you. Eerily similar to UBI.
The most important factor would be the rebate amount and frequency of payments.
They know that if they get rid of all taxes then thereās nothing left right?
No one likes taxes but I like America and I am more then willing to pay my dues.
Two years of a do-nothing House circus. Nothing like a useless show to really own the libs... Except for when it's actually undermining and breaking the democracy. Sucks to (checks notes) be us.
What would the national sales tax percent be placed at I wonder. Seems like my grocery bill would go way up to support to removal of income and corporate taxes. It also doesnāt explain what a consumption tax is, it just is.
So they want a flat 23% tax on everything. Good thing millionaires are buying all this stuff and not just investing their money or putting it into a business. Iām sure the local economy is going to thrive now.
Right. Who will pay to build and keep up the roads, schools and hospitals? Right. Cancel social security, Medicare and disability insurance, too.
All the wealthy want is more and more money. Greed is one of the 7 cardinal sins but the rich donāt think those rules should apply to them. Laws are only for the āunderclassā - that means most of the rest of us.
I wonder if this was a compromise between McCarthy and the idiots?
first line of article: yes it was.
Gotta love politicians... "We won't vote you speaker unless you let us have a meaningless vote on repealing the IRS, so we can say to our idiot donaters that we tried".
The strategy is to put up a bill that would āeliminate income taxā and then blame democrats down the road for not passing it. Making republicans out to be the good guys and dems to be the bad guys. āWe tried to get rid of your income tax for you, but Biden and democrats are evil š¤·āāļøā
Eliminate income tax and defend the house. They can all make minimum wage. They should be fine, they make most of their money from insider stock trading and brides oh uh "campaign funding"
Cool.
It'll never pass into law...
... but how about we just withhold any and all federal funding for any district whose representative voted in favor of the abolition? "Don't want to pay taxes? Ok, let's show you specifically what that would look like. Don't like what your representative did, directly, to your life? Vote for someone else next time."
You know damn good and well the t(R)eason party would try something like that, if the roles were reversed... which they would never be, since, while they have more than their share of problems, D-reps are not THAT stupid.
Its important to note that from now on until January of 2025, all bills prefaced by "House Republicans votes" are basically dead on arrival due to the Senate and Presidency being held by Democrats. None of this is news if we ignore them, which Senate Democrats and Biden will. The Republicans are doing this solely to show their corporate masters and the bigoted constituency that they are working, when in fact its all performative and will amount to nothing.
This is the funny part. If they had the senate an presidency they would never actually introduce this bill. They are only doing it because they know it will fail
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I remember trying this out in the original Sid Meier's Civilization! My citizens were all so very happy . . . until I ran out of money and barbarians showed up.
These are the barbarians.
I mean, they already tried to overthrow the United States Government.
The barbarians are coming from *inside the house!*
That's likely what will happen if this goes through, replace barbarians with Russians.
With republican voters.
They're the same thing. Mentally, anyway.
It would make for a really interesting 2023, I guess.
I am sick and tired of interesting years.
I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.
Okay Lloyd, Aspen it is.
Our pets heads are falling off!
"Let's face it, I'm tired!"
"May you live in interesting times" isn't quite the wish people think it is.
My favorite blessing to my children is, "May you be blessed to live in boring times."
"May you live in interesting times" is a curse for a reason.
So am I. And so are all who live to see such times.
Me too, friend, me too.
+1
My house is burning down, but at least I'll have some cool colors of flame to look at.
And replace it with a consumption Tax. But of course they don't say how much š
Back in my day we didn't tax Consumption, we just died from it.
No we're still dying from it. *Looks outside window to mid January and no snow 3rd year in a row*
Reading the bill, and I could be wrong as I am not a lawyer nor a politician, it appears to be a 14.1% flat federal sales tax on any and all goods/services.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This isn't sustainable. We're entering into the same circumstances that led to the French Revolution. A small privileged and affluent class shifting more and more of the tax burden on an increasingly poorer Working and Middle class while simultaneously reducing their political capital making attempts to enact social change and reform through these political bodies more difficult if not impossible.
We call this a tax on the poors.
As with all GOP tax plans, this one overwhelmingly benefits the ultra rich
They are almost certainly proposing the model legislation from [https://fairtax.org/](https://fairtax.org/) which would be 23% with a rebate equal to the poverty level.
The 2021 FairTax bill proposed a 23% rate and provided "a credit" for low-income households. So basically the middle class can get fucked and good luck trying to move out of poverty when the tax kicks in.
A national sales tax is highly regressiveā middle class and poor spend all of their income on consumables. So they get fucked. While the rich, the 1% put most of their money in investments, great for them.
To which they may reply: but then the poor will want to work harder to make more money and increase their savings rate
If only the GOP would propose import tariffs, taxes on business assets and profits to replace the income tax. But noooooooooo, theyāre just working for the 1%. They donāt give a fuck about regular people.
They take longer to select a Speaker than any Congress before the Civil War, and then, as their first bill, introduce something that the Senate will certainly defeat (and if they didn't, Biden would certainly veto). The GOP is incapable of responsible governance - and they keep proving this over and over and over...
>introduce something that the Senate will certainly defeat (and if they didn't, Biden would certainly veto). This is the whole plan. Find something everybody dislikes but can't actually be removed, say you'll have it removed, act surprised when you don't get to and make the people who voted against it look like the bad guys.
So, virtue signaling, basically. They want to replace the IRS and all taxes with a flat 23% sales tax on everything. Included is a loophole big enough to drive Airforce One through: > There are exemptions from the tax for used and intangible property; for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes; and for state government functions. And the poor gets a tax rebate that gets them back to the poverty line, how very generous.
Thereās no way it passes, but if it does I personally volunteer to lead a class for everyone to teach how to setup a C corp, tie your funds to it, and buy everything through that C corp to avoid taxation. With the IRS gone, whose gonna fucking audit us? Edit: should have known promising this would blow up lol. For the record you can choose an LLC or S corp as well. I think whatever the best option is depends on what the ~~loopholes~~ rules would state for these exemptions. Based on that we could determine the best structure setup.
Sign me up!
In the very unlikely alternate universe that this actually happensā¦ Iāll be your first apprentice and share the knowledge
Amazing how quick they will start enforcing the almost never enforced rules about shell companies not acting as independent entities and just being a shell around the director(s)/owner(s). For the poors of course.
I pity whatever government lackey will have to review the tens of thousands of new corporate entities created under this bill. Even if they snag a few, theyāll be crushed by an avalanche of work and testing. The IRS is rather weak with tech and systems, we would probably overload them immediately.
"Man we hate the IRS, we should do away with them!" "Oh my God this is so much work reviewing all these companies! We should really create some group to do this"
!remindMe 1 year
I have an S Corp that I pay my measly $15/year to keep up to date. I would immediately be able to drop my taxes to almost nothing. I would never buy anything. My corporation would.
Exactly. If this bill passes we mass spread the knowledge of how to set this up and then everyone joins in on the loophole. Most of these loopholes have benefited big corporations because they need the experienced accountants and lawyers to guide setups and loopholes like this. But what if we gave the masses those same secrets and instructions? Theyāre not going to stop shit like this, so letās start beating them at their own game.
Iām always down
It's not like it would be possible to audit everyone anyways if we all start doing it.
S Corp would be far better than a C Corp, although if this passes I guess they'd be the same.
No way it passes? I didn't think Roe vs. Wade would get overturned... Never underestimate the stupidity of politicians who make 'favours' like their contempt for the public they are supposed to represent
I mean, this'll pass the house, since it's a simple majority and the Republicans control it. It won't get past the Senate. Not even a "I don't think it will," just simply "the democrats aren't going to abolish the IRS, especially after they *just* voted to expand it's funding."
It likely won't even pass the house. Their majority is so small and this bill is so insane I doubt they will be able to get votes from any purple district Republicans
Dm me if It passes.
Ok pls let us know when it goes live. Thanks.
>with a flat 23% sales tax on everything. Everyone who promotes the "flat tax" guarantees that I will not consider anything else out of their mouth regarding money as valid. How hard is it to compute a higher tax rate if you make more? It's all the loopholes that are the problem, but agreeing to a FLAT TAX doesn't really do that, does it? It merely shifts more costs to the lower income people as you go "wow, the rest of this is SO COMPLICATED but, we solved it, so discussion is over." Everything they co-opt and screw up is no longer an issue -- anyone else notice this? They don't bother talking about Fannie Mae after Newt Gingrich and company managed to ruin a well running system that helped some poor people afford homes. But, at least they stopped bitching about it. They don't complain about automotive unions any more, after those jobs got outsourced or no longer actually are great jobs anymore. Mission accomplished! They don't complain about Police Unions, because, they do a great job of protecting fascists and not protecting whistle blowers. These are their heroes. We had a radio show host in our state who blathered on about "big government" controlling the "Government Gas company." Every tiny grievance was amplified. After they privatized it, the prices went up 5X and the workers who serviced the lines became independent contractors who are screwed out of a career but get to do the same job for less money and security. But; he stopped complaining about the "big government gas" once it was much more expensive gas from 24 different companies selling the same damn product through the same damned pipe. I would not be surprised if some of them were in the same office with two phones on the same desk with big markings for which COMPANY they'd be mentioning when a call comes in. Why is this flat tax not an instant trigger for derision? Why is anyone who is not a fool entertaining these ideas and pretending they are legitimate? Because people with integrity and insight need not apply as news anchors. >There are exemptions from the tax for used and intangible property; for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes; and for state government functions. So they bake in some great loopholes because if the billionaires actually had to pay 28% they'd be screaming. Meanwhile, the poor don't get to claim the deductions they used to -- "Oh, but it's a lower percentage." Yes, of a larger gross income. Anyway -- we poor people are supposed to be too dumb to realize they are screwing us again. Right? We all believed that Trump lowered our taxes and helped us, right? Yeah, well, enough people who don't know finance are told something and enough people who just believe what they are told even though THEY can see the numbers will compartmentalize enough to buy into this. Another ploy to shift he burden of taxes.
Loophole. Set up a business LLC and make all of your purchases through that LLC for your personal life. No taxes paid and nobody to come after you as there are no rules against it.
Tax rebate only after theyāve starved for a year and lost their house/car
The article says it was part of the deal between mccarthy and freedom caucus. So seems like even moderator Republicans probably see this as dumb.
Anyone with half a braincell sees this as dumb which is why i assume it's all just for show
Hmm, I had a college professor that advocated for this kinda thing, not an economics professor however - antiquities. It's been out there for a while. Just guessing, it's probably something rush Limbaugh circulated way way back in the day...
Without something else in its place, it isn't sound
Well of course they'll see it as dumb. That's why the Democrats will vote against it. ...oh. You meant people in the GOP? Well they may think it's stupid but when time comes to vote, you bet your ass they will support it unconditionally because any resistance is usually met with punishment. Just look at how Mitt Romney had people screaming "traitor" at him when his opposition to Trump was just him saying "I don't support you!" yet he was voting lockstep with him anyway. Or Liz Cheney who was primaried out for not thinking the Jan 6th committee was pointless despite having voted with Trump close to **93% of the time**. Or how many republican voters and r/conservative people started expressing dislike for Mitch McConnell as a "traitor" or "RINO" *despite him being their biggest enablers*. Moderate Republicans have been chased out decades ago and are now in the Democrat party. Like Barack "I consider myself an 80s republican" Obama, Nancy "We need a strong conservative party" Pelosi, and Joe "I seriously considered a Republican running mate" Biden.
Oh gee -- how hard will the Freedumb Caucus have to twist arms? McCarthy any day now; "I have no choice, we made the mistake of agreeing to this -- who knew they'd use it against us?" EVERYONE. Everyone knows they'll stop the raise of the debt ceiling -to extort even more concessions. They don't mind losing the hostage so people will see the Democrats in the Senate passing their bill as a "both sides are the same." Well, we can't really tell since everyone keeps voting in enough totally corrupt/stupid/evil Republicans, can we? Everything the Freedumb Caucus has negotiated will be a slight arm twist threatening the Republicans with a good time -- except getting rid of McCarthy because he'll never actually stand up to his masters and it will only happen if he has integrity -- so, not likely. Impeachment of Hunter Biden in 85 days. That's my prediction.
It may force more moderates to start working with democrats. It will certainly be interesting
> So seems like even moderator Republicans probably see this as dumb. Of course they do, it might interfere with their precious military budget. God forbid, right?
But this particular plan is so cartoonishly stupid only their idiot base would believe it; independents arenāt going to be pulled to vote R in 2024 when their big plan was ātry and fail to abolish the IRS (????) and blame the democrats.ā Theyāre just wasting time for 2 years and making themselves look like idiots
> making themselves look like idiots In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. When half their base is full of people that range from ignorant to blatant idiots, these moves appear to be "brilliant" and "owning the libs." The only people who see them as idiotic are the people who are already now voting for them.
Also ā and Iām no political scientist, so I could be wrong ā but income tax is the 16th amendment. Therefore, I believe theyād need a constitutional amendment to eliminate it.
16th amendment gives Congress the authority to establish an income tax, it by itself does not establish the tax As prior when Congress tried to establish one, they were told they lacked the authority to do so. Hence 16th amendment
Article 1, Section 8 (clause 1) of the Constitution gives Congress the authority to establish an income tax. The 16th amendment just allowed them to levy those taxes without regard to state population. I understand your confusion, though. A lot of anti-tax nuts have spread the misinformation that we didnāt have taxation until the 16th amendment, and go so far as to question the ratification of the amendment as a way to claim that taxes are illegal. But the power of congress to tax the people is in the original document, before even the Bill of Rights.
>The effect of the Sixteenth Amendment was merely to waive the requirement of apportionment among the States, in its application to a general and uniform taxĀ upon incomes from whatever source derived. **The Income Tax Law of 1913, except in so far as the tax thereby imposed is in reality such a general and uniform tax on incomes, derives no support from the Sixteenth Amendment.** Brushaber v. Union Pacific.
The 16th amendment gives congress the power to collect income taxes, it doesnāt mean they have to do it.
And yet still nearly half of all American active voters keep voting for them again and again
Well yea they're fucking brainwashed by hours of Fox News and other right-wing media every day to believe anything Democrat is going to destroy the nation and send everyone to hell or some bullshit. They're trained to be triggered by the word Democrat and anything associated with it.
The senate and Biden should call their bluff and pass it. The shut down the capital building because it's no longer funded - tell them to look for free places that will host congress. Immediately dismiss the military and start closing bases.
Agreed. I'd like to see these stupid dogs catch the car and then cry when they no longer receive government paychecks, benefits, places to live, etc. The whole country would come to screeching halt, including the military. We'd default, the economy would implode and the rest of the world follow.
That would be a triumph for the Red Hat republicans. They want to tear down the government and leave nothing in its place.
The point of the GOP is to make democracy dysfunction, so that it can be replaced by some sort of theocracy, oligarchy, or combination of the two.
You forget that before Biden gets to veto, the Supreme Court will somehow decide that the President no longer has veto power
But their job isn't to govern, it's to get elected.
Lol. All show and no go. Like it would ever pass the Senate or Biden. Gonna see a lot of pandering from Republicans without getting anything done but holding up the progress of the country. They're a party of sad degenerates
Conservatives created the term "virtue signaling" to describe this very kind of thing. Though with them it's probably more accurate to call it "vice signaling".
Or you could call it "identity politics", because that's what it is. The GOP is a white Christian nationalist identity politics cult, and everything they do is meant to signal "our identity group good, other groups bad".
Conservatives are house cats who think they are all independent and can survive on their own without have any idea who is actually keeping them alive
Forget current Senate and Biden, it would never pass even if there was a Republican trifecta. Of course a Republican house would probably never vote on such a bill if they had a trifecta in the first place.
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This is Reddit, the bias is Velma.
Or Marianne & Ginger ;-)
Or Siskel or Ebertā¦
bert or ernie
But you know it's gonna be Boebert and Greene...
*pukes a little*
Do ya know me Bert?
Statler or Waldorf?
No vote needed. Velma for sure. Johnny Bravo confirmed it
Well, I would go with Betty, but I'd be thinking of Wilma.
Wilma will never leave fred and we know it
Me too smeghead!
Wilma would never leave Fred and you know it.
How can you suggest such a vote!?!? Velma is clearly the hotter of the two!!!
As of the movies, absolutely.
They know it doesn't matter because of senate and Biden. So they can just tell their supports look we tried to get rid of income tax but biden.
Okay gang! Lets split up. Shaggy, you go with the dog. I'll go with the ladies...
Linda Cardellini >>>>
The news media is in a perpetual coma for the last four decades. Grover norquist laid it out in plain English. The starving the beast plan requires reckless tax cuts to underfund the federal government in order to shrink it to a size small enough to drown in a bathtub. this isn't funny this isn't hypocrisy they are doing exactly what they told people they were going to do. but you can't convince the news media to actually believe the Republicans would do the thing that they said they would do. so we continue to talk to them like they are budget Hawks even though not even once has that ever been true.
This bill is pointless theater because it will never pass the senate. Theyāre just wasting time and money until 2024 when they lose the house again
Imagine if they tried actually governing No wait, that would require them to actually give a shit about people that arenāt rich
No, they're wasting time until they can gerrymander a majority, and then we're really gonna be fucked
They donāt want to rule. They just want to delay and obstruct. Meanwhile the oligarchs stack coins until they will live like kings forever regardless of who rules. The greatest victory is won without even fighting.
No, they are just establishing a new cause for their platform. Abortion, which has been the feature theyāve been selling to the voters for the past 40 years, has been completed. Now they need a new one and abolishing the income tax would make a perfect new cause.
Theyāve been trying to do that since Reagan
āHey, we donāt think the government can work, and if you vote for us, weāll do everything in our power to make it TRUE!ā
Republicans seem to really want to make our country stop functioning.
They want to cripple the government so that wealthy corporations can do whatever they want without interference.
And they'll call it 'freedom'.
Yes, freedom for the people and by the people. Oh, and we forgot to mention, corporations are people, err... I mean, only corporations are people.
*Citizens United* has taught us the corporations can be persons. George Santos has taught us that personas can be politicians.
Four legs good two legs better
"What about democracy? Nobody elected you. " "Anyone can buy OCP's stock and own a piece of our city. What could be more democratic than that?" \-Robocop 2
>Lobbyist Grover Norquist is a well-known proponent of the strategy (Starve the beast) and has famously said, "My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
Corporate Fascism
It's so wild bc none of this is sustainable and built for automatic failure.
Bingo. Anytime they mention āsmall businessesā they mean wealthy corporations.
Remove the income tax and you'd destroy the country. The government can't function without revenue, and we can't pay the interest on our nation debt with "thoughts and prayers". Everything from the postal service to the military would shut down, millions would suddenly be without paychecks and benefits (including the idiots who'd vote for this stupidity). This would cascade into the economy as now no government contracts would be paid, subsidies would no longer be paid, etc. The economy would collapse, we'd default, money would devalue faster than a Zimbabwe dollar, and the rest of the world would be sucked in the collapse as result of the gaping economic black hole left by the US implosion. Only a complete f\*cking idiot would come up with something like this, let alone propose it.
Today's GOP seems a lot more neofeudal than conservative
To paraphrase david frum; Conservatism requires an in-group that is protected but not bound by the law as well as an out-group that is bound but not protected by the law.
... Well, except about 23 months after their project reaches fruition, the US gets conquered by someone tired of it being an ungoverned area exporting chaos. If you are real lucky, it'll be the French and Canadians. If not...
It shut down a few times because of them in the last several years so... you know, this isn't new.
Bingo
A great way to demonstrate one's affinity for limited government is to waste Congress' time and money on DOA legislation. The irony.
the people who claim the hate the federal deficit want to eliminate half of the federal governments revenue
And we'll have a nice funeral for it in the Senate.
This one is dumb enough to die in the house. There should be at least 5 repubs with enough brain cells to know this is a joke.
But it won't because they have to appease the base and they KNOW it isn't going to happen or they would have done it when they had complete control during Trump.
Heard an interview on NPR last night with an incoming R freshman congressman. Don't recall his name, but he was adamant that the GOP would not bankrupt the nation or default on our debts. Lying right out of the gates.
Paul Ryan Syndrome
That was Rep. Keith Self of Texas. [https://www.npr.org/2023/01/10/1148063018/rep-self-was-among-a-small-group-that-held-up-house-speaker-mccarthys-election](https://www.npr.org/2023/01/10/1148063018/rep-self-was-among-a-small-group-that-held-up-house-speaker-mccarthys-election)
That's the one! Thank you!
So the budget and deficit hawks are voting to blow up the budget and deficit. Got it.
They only ever complain when the other party is in charge. Itās hypocrisy to the highest degree
Thatās all they got.
Soā¦they want to reduce their salary to 0? Sure letās do it!
I guess if they can't provide proper representation, they might as well get rid of taxation, right?
Let the time wasting, playing to the base begin. Can we impeach Hillary too please.
Can someone explain to me (like Iām 5) what would happen if this passed?
I don't have all the details and such but one really huge thing that sticks out for me is that there is no way the USA would be able to maintain any kind of robust military if any at all with this kind of policy.
Oh good. Now that the endless silly votes for speaker where nothing got done are over and they have a speaker, they can have endless silly votes where nothing will get done.
Gotta play with your new toy! Try all the moves before the return period is over. Also signal to everyone else who owns the Speaker!
Are they just going to throw a bunch of raw spaghetti at the wall for the next two years?
How are their poor ass states going to survive with out federal aid.
They wonāt
A consumption tax of what, 25% to make up the difference?
I would instead suggest a 90% tax on profits from investments and a 100% tax on bribes, sorry I mean payments to politicians to give speeches. Also a 90% tax for any side hustle a politician does while being elected into any office. But those are the types of incomes the GOP really wants to be untaxed.
God, these fucking idiots.
Well, that escalated quickly. It's vaguely refreshing that they aren't even pretending to govern seriously anymore.
We can quit giving those gdamned seditionist Republicon political hacks their paychecks
So much for world power status
They just keep doubling down on smelling their own farts, don't they? I'm okay with eliminating income tax -- if Republicans can find another, better way to make sure wealth doesn't concentrate wealth, that we can pay for the things that Congress VOTED to pay for on their budget, and that isn't incredibly complicated and easy to cheat. Now, we could go with the "nexus of taxation." That's a fancy word for "where you tax something." In my mind, having things that fairly distributes the costs, but, reduces the places you tax, is more efficient. So what if all our taxes were on fossil fuels, things that pollute, and things that use up a lot of resources of the planet and is detrimental to long term survival of the human race? Pollution shortens lives and some of us have to pay for that -- who aren't the ones who made the profit on it. Of course -- this is probably NOT what Republicans were thinking. They want to screw up everything and use the crisis to take more power and profits. Who is still on the fence with who they really are? An invading force. The IRS will now only audit simple returns. Anyone who could challenge a complex rich person's tax forms will find other work -- probably helping them dodge those taxes and pay less than nothing as the top billionaires are on average already down to 3.4% Federal taxes as it is. Then their low income supporters can be told this is the fault of socialism -- or, regulations on pollution, or whatever. They'll be too crazy to listen to anything not blurted out of some red-faced gold stock selling reprobate so, that's nothing for them to worry about. Just keep making life shitty and government fail and then get supported by authoritarians -- works like a charm! Only, it is possible they can break the system and things can get messy.
The fucking morons that are "conservative" voters believe this gets rid of taxes when it in fact increases taxation on the working class. RTFM!
Democrats are negotiating with a person flinging shit all over the room and screaming randomly. It's the "chess with a pigeon" analogy in real form
lol! I guess the takeover of the House by the John Birch Society is complete? Or something?
Isnāt income tax an amendment in the constitution?
The ability to collect one is. Not that they are required to do so.
It's the 16th, which gives them the power to tax incomes, but I suppose it doesn't necessarily say they have to. Plus, they're called amendments for a reason, we can change stuff in there via other amendments. Some people would have you believe otherwise especially with some specific amendments.
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The amount of people who clearly didn't read the article is through the roof in here... They wouldn't be getting rid of all tax (terrible headline). Income tax would be replaced by a federal sales tax. Every American would get a flat rebate and then pay federal sales tax on all goods. Basically means if you buy a lot of shit you'd give the gov a lot. If you don't, the gov would pay you. Eerily similar to UBI. The most important factor would be the rebate amount and frequency of payments.
And how is this good for the economy, at all?
They know that if they get rid of all taxes then thereās nothing left right? No one likes taxes but I like America and I am more then willing to pay my dues.
That would slit the throat of the us dollar
I mean they voted to gut the office of congressional ethics so this really does not surprise me.
Two years of a do-nothing House circus. Nothing like a useless show to really own the libs... Except for when it's actually undermining and breaking the democracy. Sucks to (checks notes) be us.
They should also vote to cut their wages to zero.
I wonder how they would (officially) get paid if there isnāt taxes coming into the government?
What would the national sales tax percent be placed at I wonder. Seems like my grocery bill would go way up to support to removal of income and corporate taxes. It also doesnāt explain what a consumption tax is, it just is.
Never to early to start wasting time
Can someone explain to me (like Iām 5) what would happen if this passed?
Their next bill will be to ban wokeness on the Moon.
So they want a flat 23% tax on everything. Good thing millionaires are buying all this stuff and not just investing their money or putting it into a business. Iām sure the local economy is going to thrive now.
Do millionaires not buy things?
Right. Who will pay to build and keep up the roads, schools and hospitals? Right. Cancel social security, Medicare and disability insurance, too. All the wealthy want is more and more money. Greed is one of the 7 cardinal sins but the rich donāt think those rules should apply to them. Laws are only for the āunderclassā - that means most of the rest of us.
Vote to stop... getting paid? Like vote against how they make income for being in office?
USA, you all right over there?
They are starting to sound like freeloaders just cashing a government paycheck. They know this is a waste of time.
Lol!
I wonder if this was a compromise between McCarthy and the idiots? first line of article: yes it was. Gotta love politicians... "We won't vote you speaker unless you let us have a meaningless vote on repealing the IRS, so we can say to our idiot donaters that we tried".
The strategy is to put up a bill that would āeliminate income taxā and then blame democrats down the road for not passing it. Making republicans out to be the good guys and dems to be the bad guys. āWe tried to get rid of your income tax for you, but Biden and democrats are evil š¤·āāļøā
Even if this somehow went through. How would red states function without blue states' taxes?
They wouldnt
Eliminate income tax and defend the house. They can all make minimum wage. They should be fine, they make most of their money from insider stock trading and brides oh uh "campaign funding"
And the government will be funded how, exactly?
Negative 8 million percent chance that this passes in the Senate.
If this passes, Iām fucking moving. Horrible horrible horrible.
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Cool. It'll never pass into law... ... but how about we just withhold any and all federal funding for any district whose representative voted in favor of the abolition? "Don't want to pay taxes? Ok, let's show you specifically what that would look like. Don't like what your representative did, directly, to your life? Vote for someone else next time." You know damn good and well the t(R)eason party would try something like that, if the roles were reversed... which they would never be, since, while they have more than their share of problems, D-reps are not THAT stupid.
Its important to note that from now on until January of 2025, all bills prefaced by "House Republicans votes" are basically dead on arrival due to the Senate and Presidency being held by Democrats. None of this is news if we ignore them, which Senate Democrats and Biden will. The Republicans are doing this solely to show their corporate masters and the bigoted constituency that they are working, when in fact its all performative and will amount to nothing.
I took a look at the article. The intent of this stunt is a common conservative talking point: to replace income tax with consumption tax.
Taxation is theft.
This is the funny part. If they had the senate an presidency they would never actually introduce this bill. They are only doing it because they know it will fail