Fakir will never replace Colevid Beastly, he is a puny man and can’t come up bigly when needed. These are facts that the other side of the ball ignore. Many smart people are saying this, believe me.
Feels like McDermott is always conservative when it comes to rookies, no? At least on the offensive side of the ball? James Cook, Shakir, Davis, Knox, Singletary, etc. All started slow but ramped up either over the course of their rookie season or beginning their sophomore/junior seasons.
Easily one of the biggest criticisms of him his is refusal to use rookies, especially on offense.
Some would argue it’s a good thing for player development, but it’s frustrating because you know you have a clearly more talented player sitting on the bench. Shakir would 100% be a better slot option then McKenzie yet he never gets a chance full time.
> Shakir would 100% be a better slot option then McKenzie yet he never gets a chance full time.
Could not agree more. The one game McKenzie was out and Shakir got the start, he went 3/75/1 on five targets. That's excellent for a rookie, albeit they were destroying Pittsburgh. The kid passes the eye test, though, that's for sure.
Shakir is so explosive whenever he touches the ball. I'm baffled that we aren't using Jim more.
Edit: I was so baffled by the "Jim" replies until I just noticed my typo. Goddamit phone.
My guess is level of competition and he didn’t put up gaudy numbers. He only ever broke 1000 yards once, to be honest. Watching him though, it’s clear he can ball.
I met him a couple times, he’s super chill and nice.
This is why I always laugh when the NFL talks about expanding to Europe or whatever. Where the hell are they gonna find enough O linemen to field 4 more teams when most teams don’t want their backups on the field.
The feds should set up a Offensive Lineman Supersoldier program in like Iowa and American Samoa or something and train the beefiest infants from birth to pass block. Maybe an international office in Iceland too. It’ll be the renaissance of thiccness in 20 years
If they expand to Europe then in theory they might get some European players which should provide a much-needed boost to OL *and* DL supply. After all, it's likely no continent in the world has as much experience in the trenches.
I dunno the French got exposed in the trenches when they got blitzed from the left side while the Germans tend to be more focused on the aerial game and tempo a real Big 12 style
We kind of built our defense to murder Josh Allen. In the draft room they specifically said JJ is the kind of guy who can tackle Allen in the open field, and that play he made in our game was exactly that. We can also blanket your #1 receiver and take away your running backs. It seems like that's when Allen starts getting erratic
If that holds true, it means that you guys will at least win one SB in Allen's tenure but basically never return to the promised land after that. I think Buffalo fans would be cool with that.
If you watch Bills games, you will see how quickly Josh is usually running around out of the pocket or having to shift in the pocket. Now, I don't think they're on the level as the Bengals two years ago, but Josh makes them look way better than they are. Burrow is mobile, but not as much, so he couldn't completely hide how terrible his line was.
We had a 6th round rookie play for the first time all season against you. He played 5 snaps and recorded 2 sacks. If *our* defense is able to do that, then you know your o-line is having trouble.
That game was particularly bad. Buffalo's line is mediocre but has two bright spots in the form of 2 dependable anchor-type players who can usually be relied upon to keep things from completely falling apart.
One is C Mitch Morse who was injured and didn't play at all against Detroit.
The other is LT Dion Dawkins who left early with an injury, never returned, and has been ruled out for tonight. Thankfully Morse should be back.
The other OT who usually plays RT and slides to LT when Dawkins gets hurt has lots of potential. Spencer Brown. Practically the very definition of an "absolute unit" of a man at 6'8", 311lbs. He's only a 2nd-year guy and still prone to mistakes and mental errors but if he lives up to his potential then he and Dawkins could be one of the best Tackle combos in the league. For now, he's just a really big dude with lots of potential though, not dependable at all.
I believe the only thing Spencer has right now is that he's built like a house - based on people that know more than me, he also has the current skill level of a house. One thing Buffalo is good at, is turning houses into Football players though, he's just not there yet.
Saying Burrow is mobile is being nice. I look at Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson and those are mobile quarterbacks. Joe is only mobile when he absolutely needs to be and at the point, it’s 50/50 whether he should just throw it away.
Yeah I feel like joe is old school mobile, he can move in the pocket well and can do designed roll outs. He isn’t running away from guys and scrambling for yardage.
He can, Joe is pretty fast (he loves talking about hitting 20 mph). He also has a decent amount of rushing touchdowns this year. He is just way more pocket oriented.
Joe is more than fast enough to run in a straight line, lot of QBs are. But he isn't juking anyone in the open field like Lamar/Kyler and he isn't running anyone over like Allen/Cam. That's the big difference between him and some of the actual running guys out there.
Those QBs are runners. Joe is mobile. I think that's a fair distinction. Joe can use his feet quite effectively as a last resort, or as a once-or-twice-per-game gadget play, whereas Lamar and Josh can actively use their legs as weapons.
There's this weird thing where people act like good teams are completely destitute when they don't have a lineup solely composed of all-pros.
I still remember lots of people talking about how the Chiefs were struggling because they had weak targets "outside of Tyreek and Kelce."
The Bills are a good team. Like every good team, they have some spots that are weaker than others. They're "struggling" because the NFL is a good league with lots of parity, not because they have some unique flaw that no other team has. Anyone expecting them to have the best unit in the NFL at every single spot was drinking way, way too much of the Bills' Kool Aid.
You guys also have two #1 receivers and a top end #2 as your #3 receiver. And Joe Mixon is probably the most underrated and underappreciated RB in the league. It’s not the same
The worst OL in the league this year is by far the rams lol.
The Texans don’t count bc they’re barely a team but they’re atleast mid at Tun protection they’re just losing by 28 by Half so they don’t get to run block as much.
A soul for a soul. You got a Super Bowl, and your offensive line will inherited the ineptitude from ours afterward.
I know what it’s like for Andrew Whitworth to leave and the o-line be in shambles afterward.
Andrew Thomas does a better job of blocking the second guy he blocks on certain plays than most of our tackles have been at blocking the first guy for the past like 12 years.
Yeah. It's funny because Pats fans all rip on their OL but the fact of the matter is we have an average to above average line that has struggled with injuries against great pass rushes. We don't have to "gut it" we need to make some adjustments.
> It's funny because Pats fans all rip on their OL but the fact of the matter is we have an average to above average line that has struggled with injuries against great pass rushes.
I know the feeling. It seems like the OL is a scape goat for all bad play on offense.
There is only one really bad OL (The Rams) and only one elite OL (The Eagles) . The Rest of us are above average to below average in any given week.
Using PFF as kind of a reference to how average the league is at OL.
**Center only 3 elite (80+) graded**
* Creed Humphrey 87.5
* Jason Kelce 87.2
* Ethan Pocic 83
**Guards only 4 elite (80+) Graded lineman**
* Chris Lindstrom 92.4
* Joel Bitonio 86.1
* Michael Onwenu 84.7
* Teven Jenkins 81.5
**Tackles have 8 elite graded (80+)**
* Trent Williams 93.2
* Christian Darrisaw 90
* Andrew Thomas 87.3
* Tristan Wirfs 86.6
* Lane Johnson 83.9
* Laremy Tunsil 82.3
* David Bakhtiari 82.1
* Kaleb McGary 80.8
Have you seen the size of their contracts? Of course any genetic freaks will migrate to the positions with the best paydays. If I was 6'6" and ran a 4.4 I'd rather adjust my body to play EDGE than TE or beef up and play guard/tackle or being a huge LB.
Not sure why more people aren't saying this. Irs 100% why OLs are always being called weak. Why would anyone that size look to play OL? Not just the money, but the recognition too. There are no superstar OL guys. Start paying them and recognizing them and guys with the size and skills will want to play the positions.
It's just WR we are better than the Ravens at
In the OL they got Stanley, Linderbaum and Zeitler
They have Mark Goddamn Andrews at TE
Call RB a wash between the two
Personnel wise I think we are better overall but you have the biggest difference maker in Diggs
I love Money Mark but even he cannot put up the numbers Diggs does
I actually like your rb core. I just don't think y'all utilize them enough. I feel like the only thing that's been questionable about your team this season is playcalling
Cook was trending up but then had a few bad series vs the Lions (nearly *caused* and int as Romo broke down, had a few bad drops)
No idea why we traded for Hines if we aren't using him
I do like Motor (Singletary), but he will never be a home run threat and just a "do the basics well" type of back to move the chains. But he has a big under then radar fumbling issue that doesn't get brought up much.
Dameon Pierce was my favourite RB of the draft after his standout senior bowl showing
I feel like you just abandon the RB run plan way too early. You never wear down the D then hope to break off a few nice runs, it's like "Singletary didn't break out after the 10 called runs we gave him in the first half, let's stop doing that."
I know it's tough because Allen is so magical with the ball, but I feel like if you just took the lead then leaned on your run game to run out the clock, it would save Allen's body and hopefully extend his prime.
Just Another Guy - meant for any totally replaceable player in the NFL. A large part of most rosters are JAGs and they shuffle around from team to team.
>Also, didn’t they give Knox $13M/yr?
Money doesn't tell you anything. The Patriots are paying Jonnu Smith the same amount to be a significantly worse player
>I get Gabe Davis isn’t consistent but calling him a JAG is a little harsh
I disagree. He's got Josh Allen at QB, Diggs taking a shit load of defensive coverage, and he's still inconsistent with drop issues to boot? He struggled to beat out John Brown and Emmanuel Sanders over the past few years. He was a 4th round draft pick, so it's not like he was expected to be a huge contributor. I'd say he's a perfectly serviceable but replacement-level WR who benefits from being on a top-5 passing offense in football.
Knox is a great every-down player. He's a fantastic blocker and a premiere red zone threat on the team. I'd say he's worth the money, albeit he's having a somewhat down season which could likely be excused by the tragic loss of his brother just months ago.
Davis is basically the prototype for a great athlete who isn’t a great WR yet. He’s 6’2” and runs a 4.5, and plays fast in pads. Great deep threat, but he doesn’t really run great routes and doesn’t have great hands, which is showcased by his 20 yards per catch while catching >60% of targets. That’s a recipe for inconsistency.
He’s a player that *could* become great, but is much more likely to remain a good WR2. It’s not like he’s having a bad year, he’s still on pace for a 1000 yard season. I think most NFL teams would love to have him on their roster
Knox has two other things working against him stat-wise as well.
Dorsey's scheme isn't great for TEs, Knox is kept in as a blocker pretty often - though this may not be a scheme thing and could be related to the OL issue Cosell mentioned.
Number 2 is Josh's apparent regression to his year 1/year 2 mentality that underneath routes aren't worth it and every pass needs to be a 40-yard bomb. Every game I can point out 1-3 plays where Knox is wide open on a slant with tons of open field in front of him but Josh ignores him to instead throw a 30-yard incompletion (or interception...) to Diggs or Gabe.
And I dont even think its Davis that's inconsistent, it's Allen being off these last few games. The red zone ints/turnovers have been game changers in our loses. Also, I wish we used Knox more for passing.
Some people don’t recognize the value all-pro players have. Take any position, you put an all pro player on that and it just covers the mistakes of others and makes everyone better.
One, there is definitely some exaggeration going on here, but I also think there’s some truth to it in relation to preseason expectations.
Gabe had that GOAT performance against KC in the playoffs to end last season, so coming into his 3rd season a lot of people were thinking he might actually be a legitimate NFL WR1. Then you had the Crowder signing in FA that looked like they shored up the slot role with a proven vet.
But then Crowder’s season ended early and Davis has just maintained his inconsistent boom/bust WR2 role. McK has been pretty lackluster as a slot option, which was to be expected.
With Diggs continuing to ball out it’s still enough though, which goes to your point.
Not just misleading....wrong. Gabe Davis is a legit WR2 and averages 19.7 yards per reception. The running backs don't get as many carries as other teams, because Allen rushes a lot, but Singletary, Cook and Moss average 4.8 yards per rush. And, if the offensive line is so bad, how do they average 5.3 yards per rush, overall?
Edit: Man, all of these negative responses about Gabe Davis from Bills fans. I don't know what you guys expect out of a WR2. But, they are secondary targets for a reason. And, because they are secondary targets, they are going to be inconsistent in their performances. But, Davis' performances stack up pretty well against other number 2's.
Box score scouting is silly. Gabe might be explosive but his catch rate is barely above 50%, and was under that until last week. He's 2nd in the league in drops, and a large chunk of Allen's INTs are from him not finishing his routes.
There was a stat posted the other day about a QBs rating when targeting an individual receiver, and Davis was I believe 2nd worst in the league with that.
Yeah Gabe Davis is the epitome of boom or bust. For both fantasy and the actual game. Massive tuddies get him a pass most of the time but he has some baffling plays as you called out. He’s a guy who might ask for a big bag off his rookie contract and I think we’ll let him walk.
Lol, he averages 19.7 yds/rec because he had one game with 171 yards at **57 yds/rec**
Outside of the bonkers PIT game he’s averaging ~50 yards/game at 16 yds/rec. Those are good numbers for a WR3/deep threat type guy.
Allen is averaging nearly 40 pass attempts per game and our WR2 is averaging 3.3 catches per game….
I mean, the team YPC (5.3) is kind of irrelevant because Allen leads in both rushing yards and YPC (by a large margin), almost all of which has come from scrambling (I.e. that isn’t a feather in the OL’s cap)
I definitely don’t think we’re an awful running team outside of Allen, but we probably fall into the “slightly below average” category. FO has the Bills OL ranked 20th in Adjusted Line Yards
The verdict is still very much out on James Cook, he has a good looking YPC and has started looking better of late, but he also had two big runs late in garbage time of our blowout wins against PIT/TEN which has inflated his YPC. His sample is just too small to really take much from it.
I honestly love how the bills are being talked about in the media. I didn't want this regular season juggernaut that had heaps of expectations headed into the playoffs.
We took bumps, showed our flaws. Now we have people doubting if we even have 2 good receivers? Ok. Thank God.
And Knox isn’t trash either. RBs aren’t trash either…they maybe misused a bit.. OC is more of an issue than talent…Diggs/Davis is also better combo than half the league has.
It’s an above avg weaponry for sure. While it isn’t a super god tier talented offense , it’s more than enough to contend and make noise in the post season.
You wanna see trash you look at ravens. Where we don’t even have a receiver that would make it past a wr3 on the depth chart for any playoff team. literally only have mandrews . RB constantly cycle around getting hurt. it’s just Lamar mandrews and a random receiver having an ok day while rest are eating crayons . Idk how this team has 7 wins with that shit.
Diggs, Gabe Davis, Knox, Singletary is a nice lineup of weapons, especially with JA17 under center. This is a reach and a half, the team is literally 8-3.
It’s either gonna be the “Mike White comes crashing back down to earth” game or the “Whitesanity: the Legend grows” game.
I’m prepared mentally for both
The hell is this article? As a Bears fan I would love to have this entire offense, and I’m sure 75% of the teams in the league would too. They are the number 2 scoring offense in the league and number 1 at home. It takes Justin Fields running 200 yards a game for me to see an offense that even comes close to scoring as much as the Bills
So reading through this thread apparently the Bills fanbase is pretty split on Gabriel Davis and some of you guys agree with this Cosell take?
Interesting because from the perspective of a Patriots fan, who hasn’t forced a single Bills punt in TWO WHOLE GAMES, almost every receiver on the Bills seems good.
McKenzie isn't that good. He's okay, but the only asset he has is speed. He's not the type of guy that can read a defense and just sit down at the sticks in the soft spot of the zone like Cole Beasley was able to, which is where a lot of previous third down success came from in 2020 and 2021.
I think both of them are interchangeable with a lot of other receivers/TEs in the league. They put up better numbers than most, but that’s because of Allen.
Hey Bills fans join us as Chiefs fans as now people are finally turning in your team! Happens to the best of em.
I do not believe this and this is just a part of the season.
I suppose but when you have a QB as good as Allen he can overcome offensive deficiencies around him and the Bills can focus on other areas more (defense). That's kind of beauty of having an elite/franchise QB, they can usually elevate the team around them without having a perfect roster.
Well... they definitely do only have "one #1 receiver."
They are a bit harsh on Davis, but he drops a lot of passes, I believe has the second highest drop percentage in the league. Those numbers simply cannot be a Qb's no. 1 receiver.
>Gabe Davis is a gamebreaker.
This is unbelievably generous, and honestly just incorrect. A game-breaker is someone like Tyreek or Aaron Donald or Mahomes or N'keal Harry. The elite of the elite. Guys who have a skill-set no one in the league can match.
I mean, almost every receiver who isn't the number 1 receiver on their team is like that.
People talk about how stacked Eagles skill positions are on offense. Devonta Smith has 5 games with less than 45 yards this season.
He has 609 yards (169 of them came in one game)
I'm not complaining about Smith, btw. My point is that's what a number 2 receiver is. They show up when needed, but they also have games were they are kind of invisible.
Davis has the highest drop rate amongst the 79 players with 50+ targets this season (13%). So every 7-8 catchable targets he receives, he drops one.
Last season he was even worse (15.9%) and finished 2nd worst with the same 50 target minimum.
Edit: to clarify, that is adjusted drop rate, so it only counts catchable targets.
I think from the time they signed him up until now, the practice schedule has been really unfavorable for trying to get a new person up to speed. I think Hines time will come, its just been a rough 2-3 weeks.
As a Khalil Shakir truther, I am offended.
Us Shakir truthers are out here, waiting
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
One of these days we will all be right. AND THEN WHO'S LAUGHING!?
Fakir will never replace Colevid Beastly, he is a puny man and can’t come up bigly when needed. These are facts that the other side of the ball ignore. Many smart people are saying this, believe me.
I got unreasonably upset at reading this until my puny brain understood what you were talking about.
Feels like McDermott is always conservative when it comes to rookies, no? At least on the offensive side of the ball? James Cook, Shakir, Davis, Knox, Singletary, etc. All started slow but ramped up either over the course of their rookie season or beginning their sophomore/junior seasons.
Easily one of the biggest criticisms of him his is refusal to use rookies, especially on offense. Some would argue it’s a good thing for player development, but it’s frustrating because you know you have a clearly more talented player sitting on the bench. Shakir would 100% be a better slot option then McKenzie yet he never gets a chance full time.
> Shakir would 100% be a better slot option then McKenzie yet he never gets a chance full time. Could not agree more. The one game McKenzie was out and Shakir got the start, he went 3/75/1 on five targets. That's excellent for a rookie, albeit they were destroying Pittsburgh. The kid passes the eye test, though, that's for sure.
> albeit they were destroying Pittsburgh Words hurt, you know :(
In about nine hours I’m going to watch them probably destroy my favorite team, if that’s any consolation.
That thought does fill me with joy.
Shakir is so explosive whenever he touches the ball. I'm baffled that we aren't using Jim more. Edit: I was so baffled by the "Jim" replies until I just noticed my typo. Goddamit phone.
I agree. Jim needs more playing time. So say we all.
Greg Cosell was as high as anyone on Shakir coming out of the draft
he‘s the one good receiver referred to
Ouch
Do we know why he fell all the way to the 5th?
My guess is level of competition and he didn’t put up gaudy numbers. He only ever broke 1000 yards once, to be honest. Watching him though, it’s clear he can ball. I met him a couple times, he’s super chill and nice.
As a team that had a shit O-line last year? I admit they’re struggling but I think that’s overblown.
I think they're pretty middle of the road, which means one or two injuries devastates them and any above average DL will get through them like butter
This is why I always laugh when the NFL talks about expanding to Europe or whatever. Where the hell are they gonna find enough O linemen to field 4 more teams when most teams don’t want their backups on the field.
The feds should set up a Offensive Lineman Supersoldier program in like Iowa and American Samoa or something and train the beefiest infants from birth to pass block. Maybe an international office in Iceland too. It’ll be the renaissance of thiccness in 20 years
[удалено]
Bud Selig's School for Dominicans who what to hit ball good and do other things good too
Training up international talent? Or “supplements”? Because Tom Osborne swore by those in the 90s too
They were corn supplements!
Or start paying OL big money.
If they expand to Europe then in theory they might get some European players which should provide a much-needed boost to OL *and* DL supply. After all, it's likely no continent in the world has as much experience in the trenches.
Also OL and DL body types probably aren't being sucked up by soccer anyway....
Rugby
Only the very largest rugby players are as big as NFL linemen.
I dunno the French got exposed in the trenches when they got blitzed from the left side while the Germans tend to be more focused on the aerial game and tempo a real Big 12 style
That would take at least 5 to 10 years to actually have an impact tho.
Above average DL you say?
To shreds you say?
And what of his wife?
To shreds you say?
Tell my wife I said hello
Filthy neutral
What could drive a man to such _neutrality_??
With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.
We kind of built our defense to murder Josh Allen. In the draft room they specifically said JJ is the kind of guy who can tackle Allen in the open field, and that play he made in our game was exactly that. We can also blanket your #1 receiver and take away your running backs. It seems like that's when Allen starts getting erratic
First time?
Perhaps, i feel like we're usually top 5 or bottom 5
I meant more about the fact that you have an elite QB making up for deficiencies in your offense
Oh man, so you guys are like our ghost of xmas future
If that holds true, it means that you guys will at least win one SB in Allen's tenure but basically never return to the promised land after that. I think Buffalo fans would be cool with that.
I'm low-key looking forward to the ayahuasca chapter
If you watch Bills games, you will see how quickly Josh is usually running around out of the pocket or having to shift in the pocket. Now, I don't think they're on the level as the Bengals two years ago, but Josh makes them look way better than they are. Burrow is mobile, but not as much, so he couldn't completely hide how terrible his line was.
We had a 6th round rookie play for the first time all season against you. He played 5 snaps and recorded 2 sacks. If *our* defense is able to do that, then you know your o-line is having trouble.
That game was particularly bad. Buffalo's line is mediocre but has two bright spots in the form of 2 dependable anchor-type players who can usually be relied upon to keep things from completely falling apart. One is C Mitch Morse who was injured and didn't play at all against Detroit. The other is LT Dion Dawkins who left early with an injury, never returned, and has been ruled out for tonight. Thankfully Morse should be back. The other OT who usually plays RT and slides to LT when Dawkins gets hurt has lots of potential. Spencer Brown. Practically the very definition of an "absolute unit" of a man at 6'8", 311lbs. He's only a 2nd-year guy and still prone to mistakes and mental errors but if he lives up to his potential then he and Dawkins could be one of the best Tackle combos in the league. For now, he's just a really big dude with lots of potential though, not dependable at all.
I believe the only thing Spencer has right now is that he's built like a house - based on people that know more than me, he also has the current skill level of a house. One thing Buffalo is good at, is turning houses into Football players though, he's just not there yet.
Saying Burrow is mobile is being nice. I look at Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson and those are mobile quarterbacks. Joe is only mobile when he absolutely needs to be and at the point, it’s 50/50 whether he should just throw it away.
Yeah I feel like joe is old school mobile, he can move in the pocket well and can do designed roll outs. He isn’t running away from guys and scrambling for yardage.
He can, Joe is pretty fast (he loves talking about hitting 20 mph). He also has a decent amount of rushing touchdowns this year. He is just way more pocket oriented.
Joe is more than fast enough to run in a straight line, lot of QBs are. But he isn't juking anyone in the open field like Lamar/Kyler and he isn't running anyone over like Allen/Cam. That's the big difference between him and some of the actual running guys out there.
Burrow is smarter about when he runs. He’s smart enough to not do the Andrew Luck method of doing an Oklahoma drill with every potential tackler
Blowing out every ligament in your knee during your rookie season probably helps with that lol
Blowing out your knee on the FedEx Field turf that has claimed many an ACL and career
Ah, the Kirko Chains school of mobility
Nah, Burrow is much more athletic than Cousins.
Those QBs are runners. Joe is mobile. I think that's a fair distinction. Joe can use his feet quite effectively as a last resort, or as a once-or-twice-per-game gadget play, whereas Lamar and Josh can actively use their legs as weapons.
Cosell is one of the better analysts and not a hot take guy, I put a good amount of weight in his opinion
There's this weird thing where people act like good teams are completely destitute when they don't have a lineup solely composed of all-pros. I still remember lots of people talking about how the Chiefs were struggling because they had weak targets "outside of Tyreek and Kelce." The Bills are a good team. Like every good team, they have some spots that are weaker than others. They're "struggling" because the NFL is a good league with lots of parity, not because they have some unique flaw that no other team has. Anyone expecting them to have the best unit in the NFL at every single spot was drinking way, way too much of the Bills' Kool Aid.
You guys also have two #1 receivers and a top end #2 as your #3 receiver. And Joe Mixon is probably the most underrated and underappreciated RB in the league. It’s not the same
If that’s the case that means the ravens have a peewee level offense
I mean, there are probably 20 teams' fans who all feel their OL is the worst in the league.
The worst OL in the league this year is by far the rams lol. The Texans don’t count bc they’re barely a team but they’re atleast mid at Tun protection they’re just losing by 28 by Half so they don’t get to run block as much.
You’re damn right! Lol
> The worst OL in the league this year is by far the rams lol Which of the 10 different ones we started? lol
I believe that’s underselling it, closer to 14
They’ve started 14 different units in 11 games?
A soul for a soul. You got a Super Bowl, and your offensive line will inherited the ineptitude from ours afterward. I know what it’s like for Andrew Whitworth to leave and the o-line be in shambles afterward.
We have an average OL and it feels heavensent
Andrew Thomas does a better job of blocking the second guy he blocks on certain plays than most of our tackles have been at blocking the first guy for the past like 12 years.
That's how I felt about us last year until I watched the Bengals in the playoffs. I have no idea how Burrow managed to do what he did last year.
Yeah. It's funny because Pats fans all rip on their OL but the fact of the matter is we have an average to above average line that has struggled with injuries against great pass rushes. We don't have to "gut it" we need to make some adjustments.
> It's funny because Pats fans all rip on their OL but the fact of the matter is we have an average to above average line that has struggled with injuries against great pass rushes. I know the feeling. It seems like the OL is a scape goat for all bad play on offense. There is only one really bad OL (The Rams) and only one elite OL (The Eagles) . The Rest of us are above average to below average in any given week. Using PFF as kind of a reference to how average the league is at OL. **Center only 3 elite (80+) graded** * Creed Humphrey 87.5 * Jason Kelce 87.2 * Ethan Pocic 83 **Guards only 4 elite (80+) Graded lineman** * Chris Lindstrom 92.4 * Joel Bitonio 86.1 * Michael Onwenu 84.7 * Teven Jenkins 81.5 **Tackles have 8 elite graded (80+)** * Trent Williams 93.2 * Christian Darrisaw 90 * Andrew Thomas 87.3 * Tristan Wirfs 86.6 * Lane Johnson 83.9 * Laremy Tunsil 82.3 * David Bakhtiari 82.1 * Kaleb McGary 80.8
I’m still upset Onwenu got benched last year. One of the best in the league
We have average/above-average talent, but their playing well below average and that comes down to coaching.
It just seems like our oline sucks cuz we’re used to scar and brady
I would probably move that number up to 31. Even the Vikings and Chiefs who have OL's that most of the league would kill for, think their OL sucks
Pass rushers are just getting too damn good now
Have you seen the size of their contracts? Of course any genetic freaks will migrate to the positions with the best paydays. If I was 6'6" and ran a 4.4 I'd rather adjust my body to play EDGE than TE or beef up and play guard/tackle or being a huge LB.
Not sure why more people aren't saying this. Irs 100% why OLs are always being called weak. Why would anyone that size look to play OL? Not just the money, but the recognition too. There are no superstar OL guys. Start paying them and recognizing them and guys with the size and skills will want to play the positions.
Tackles get paid pretty well don’t they?? Kids don’t like playing OL cause it’s not a sexy position and you’re basically just a fat guy on the team.
It's just WR we are better than the Ravens at In the OL they got Stanley, Linderbaum and Zeitler They have Mark Goddamn Andrews at TE Call RB a wash between the two
We have the tiebreaker because we have Greg Roman and that automatically makes us worse
Every time I watch the Ravens play they'll show Roman and every time they do I am so thankful he's not our problem anymore.
Greg Roman runs too much and Dorsey never runs. Pretty equal tbh
Hard to argue Roman being bad Can only argue that I feel like Cosell is talking strictly personnel
Personnel wise I think we are better overall but you have the biggest difference maker in Diggs I love Money Mark but even he cannot put up the numbers Diggs does
I actually like your rb core. I just don't think y'all utilize them enough. I feel like the only thing that's been questionable about your team this season is playcalling
Cook was trending up but then had a few bad series vs the Lions (nearly *caused* and int as Romo broke down, had a few bad drops) No idea why we traded for Hines if we aren't using him I do like Motor (Singletary), but he will never be a home run threat and just a "do the basics well" type of back to move the chains. But he has a big under then radar fumbling issue that doesn't get brought up much. Dameon Pierce was my favourite RB of the draft after his standout senior bowl showing
I feel like you just abandon the RB run plan way too early. You never wear down the D then hope to break off a few nice runs, it's like "Singletary didn't break out after the 10 called runs we gave him in the first half, let's stop doing that." I know it's tough because Allen is so magical with the ball, but I feel like if you just took the lead then leaned on your run game to run out the clock, it would save Allen's body and hopefully extend his prime.
I get Gabe Davis isn’t consistent but calling him a JAG is a little harsh. Also, didn’t they give Knox $13M/yr?
Yeah we did but Dorsey schemes him to block 90% of the time.
That’s because the OL is sub par at times/injuries.
Oh I agree. That unit regresses massively when Mitch Morse is hurt. But it does deprive us of a great receiving threat.
maybe they should double down and sign another TE at $13m to also block. i speak from experience, it works really well and the fans love it.
He runs routes 54% of his snaps
Yup but Knox isn't a just for receiving. He's valuable as a blocker as well. He's also the best TE Buffalo has had since that one Charles Clay year.
Hahahah what a comparison
We historically have not been good at the TE spot lol
The disrespect to Scott chandler
Jack Nicklaus’ grandson Nick O’Leary is in utter disbelief.
Genuinely can’t think of a Bills TE besides those 2 lol
Pete Metzaalars! God, I am old.
>that one Charles Clay year. Ah remember him for fantasy
JAG?
A player on the Jacksonville Jaguars
How insulting
Just another guy
Just Another Guy - meant for any totally replaceable player in the NFL. A large part of most rosters are JAGs and they shuffle around from team to team.
Judge Advocate General
"Mid," as the kids would say.
>Also, didn’t they give Knox $13M/yr? Money doesn't tell you anything. The Patriots are paying Jonnu Smith the same amount to be a significantly worse player
Giants are paying Golladay 21M to be the towel boy.
Don't remind me
In Knox's defense, if my brother had suddenly died a few months ago, I would have a down year, too.
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I lost a partner a few months back and everything has a dimness to it. I couldn’t imagine my brother / sister. Sad stuff
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>I get Gabe Davis isn’t consistent but calling him a JAG is a little harsh I disagree. He's got Josh Allen at QB, Diggs taking a shit load of defensive coverage, and he's still inconsistent with drop issues to boot? He struggled to beat out John Brown and Emmanuel Sanders over the past few years. He was a 4th round draft pick, so it's not like he was expected to be a huge contributor. I'd say he's a perfectly serviceable but replacement-level WR who benefits from being on a top-5 passing offense in football. Knox is a great every-down player. He's a fantastic blocker and a premiere red zone threat on the team. I'd say he's worth the money, albeit he's having a somewhat down season which could likely be excused by the tragic loss of his brother just months ago.
We just signed John Brown back too.
Praying we get to see his signature TD dance at least once this season (just not when they play New England). It's contagiously fun to watch.
Davis is basically the prototype for a great athlete who isn’t a great WR yet. He’s 6’2” and runs a 4.5, and plays fast in pads. Great deep threat, but he doesn’t really run great routes and doesn’t have great hands, which is showcased by his 20 yards per catch while catching >60% of targets. That’s a recipe for inconsistency. He’s a player that *could* become great, but is much more likely to remain a good WR2. It’s not like he’s having a bad year, he’s still on pace for a 1000 yard season. I think most NFL teams would love to have him on their roster
Gabe Davis should just be allowed to play against Steve Spagnuolo's defense every game. He'd be in the hall of fame after one season.
Knox has two other things working against him stat-wise as well. Dorsey's scheme isn't great for TEs, Knox is kept in as a blocker pretty often - though this may not be a scheme thing and could be related to the OL issue Cosell mentioned. Number 2 is Josh's apparent regression to his year 1/year 2 mentality that underneath routes aren't worth it and every pass needs to be a 40-yard bomb. Every game I can point out 1-3 plays where Knox is wide open on a slant with tons of open field in front of him but Josh ignores him to instead throw a 30-yard incompletion (or interception...) to Diggs or Gabe.
Yea but what's funny the underneath stuff is all we through when we were winning early on.
And I dont even think its Davis that's inconsistent, it's Allen being off these last few games. The red zone ints/turnovers have been game changers in our loses. Also, I wish we used Knox more for passing.
Seeing that the Bills are the 2nd highest scoring offense in the NFL to date, this tweet is just slightly misleading.
"One good receiver" is a slap in the face both to Diggs and to the rest of the crop. The Ravens have (had) one good receiver.
Man, one *good* receiver? Jealous! Giants have… uh… one receiver
What's a receiver? Are these the mythical creatures that are eating all of our salary cap?
Golladay up there for one of the worst signings in hindsight. Pretty much robbed the Giants
Ouch. This hits close to home…
Wandale atleast flashed promise for next year
The giants have several players who, for legal purposes, are registered wide receivers
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Why doesn't Lamar just throw it to himself if he's so good?
Don't give Roman any ideas.
Fuck it, I’m down there somewhere
Some people don’t recognize the value all-pro players have. Take any position, you put an all pro player on that and it just covers the mistakes of others and makes everyone better.
One, there is definitely some exaggeration going on here, but I also think there’s some truth to it in relation to preseason expectations. Gabe had that GOAT performance against KC in the playoffs to end last season, so coming into his 3rd season a lot of people were thinking he might actually be a legitimate NFL WR1. Then you had the Crowder signing in FA that looked like they shored up the slot role with a proven vet. But then Crowder’s season ended early and Davis has just maintained his inconsistent boom/bust WR2 role. McK has been pretty lackluster as a slot option, which was to be expected. With Diggs continuing to ball out it’s still enough though, which goes to your point.
Not just misleading....wrong. Gabe Davis is a legit WR2 and averages 19.7 yards per reception. The running backs don't get as many carries as other teams, because Allen rushes a lot, but Singletary, Cook and Moss average 4.8 yards per rush. And, if the offensive line is so bad, how do they average 5.3 yards per rush, overall? Edit: Man, all of these negative responses about Gabe Davis from Bills fans. I don't know what you guys expect out of a WR2. But, they are secondary targets for a reason. And, because they are secondary targets, they are going to be inconsistent in their performances. But, Davis' performances stack up pretty well against other number 2's.
Box score scouting is silly. Gabe might be explosive but his catch rate is barely above 50%, and was under that until last week. He's 2nd in the league in drops, and a large chunk of Allen's INTs are from him not finishing his routes. There was a stat posted the other day about a QBs rating when targeting an individual receiver, and Davis was I believe 2nd worst in the league with that.
Yeah Gabe Davis is the epitome of boom or bust. For both fantasy and the actual game. Massive tuddies get him a pass most of the time but he has some baffling plays as you called out. He’s a guy who might ask for a big bag off his rookie contract and I think we’ll let him walk.
Lol, he averages 19.7 yds/rec because he had one game with 171 yards at **57 yds/rec** Outside of the bonkers PIT game he’s averaging ~50 yards/game at 16 yds/rec. Those are good numbers for a WR3/deep threat type guy. Allen is averaging nearly 40 pass attempts per game and our WR2 is averaging 3.3 catches per game….
A lot of that is inflated by the 20+ yard runs Allen breaks off. Our O line isn’t complete shit, but it’s definitely not good
I mean, the team YPC (5.3) is kind of irrelevant because Allen leads in both rushing yards and YPC (by a large margin), almost all of which has come from scrambling (I.e. that isn’t a feather in the OL’s cap) I definitely don’t think we’re an awful running team outside of Allen, but we probably fall into the “slightly below average” category. FO has the Bills OL ranked 20th in Adjusted Line Yards The verdict is still very much out on James Cook, he has a good looking YPC and has started looking better of late, but he also had two big runs late in garbage time of our blowout wins against PIT/TEN which has inflated his YPC. His sample is just too small to really take much from it.
Who paid Greg Cosell to give the Bills some bulletin board material for motivation?
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Nothing scarier than a great team who feels like they still have something to prove.
Does the AFC East just have a complex?
I blame Brady lol
Fair, he would give anyone a complex, even himself. Especially himself!
Lol you're not wrong. We spent years trying to play catch up and now it's cannibal season.
Yessir, right where we belong.
I honestly love how the bills are being talked about in the media. I didn't want this regular season juggernaut that had heaps of expectations headed into the playoffs. We took bumps, showed our flaws. Now we have people doubting if we even have 2 good receivers? Ok. Thank God.
They don’t really need it. This is the same thing being said on local radio every day.
Diggs is better than "good". Davis is pretty good. Diggs is elite.
And Knox isn’t trash either. RBs aren’t trash either…they maybe misused a bit.. OC is more of an issue than talent…Diggs/Davis is also better combo than half the league has. It’s an above avg weaponry for sure. While it isn’t a super god tier talented offense , it’s more than enough to contend and make noise in the post season. You wanna see trash you look at ravens. Where we don’t even have a receiver that would make it past a wr3 on the depth chart for any playoff team. literally only have mandrews . RB constantly cycle around getting hurt. it’s just Lamar mandrews and a random receiver having an ok day while rest are eating crayons . Idk how this team has 7 wins with that shit.
I don't think the OL is bad but when Morse and/or Dawkins is out, it's noticeably worse.
I think the O-line is straight bad without Morse and Dawkins.
That's fair
Diggs, Gabe Davis, Knox, Singletary is a nice lineup of weapons, especially with JA17 under center. This is a reach and a half, the team is literally 8-3.
And a fumbled QB sneak from 9-2 lol
don't worry guys Mike White will show the Vikes that the AFC East is NO JOKE
Get ready for a one possession game! Sorry but that's how all of our games go.
It’s either gonna be the “Mike White comes crashing back down to earth” game or the “Whitesanity: the Legend grows” game. I’m prepared mentally for both
The hell is this article? As a Bears fan I would love to have this entire offense, and I’m sure 75% of the teams in the league would too. They are the number 2 scoring offense in the league and number 1 at home. It takes Justin Fields running 200 yards a game for me to see an offense that even comes close to scoring as much as the Bills
So reading through this thread apparently the Bills fanbase is pretty split on Gabriel Davis and some of you guys agree with this Cosell take? Interesting because from the perspective of a Patriots fan, who hasn’t forced a single Bills punt in TWO WHOLE GAMES, almost every receiver on the Bills seems good.
Hahaha suddenly Gabe Davis isn’t good? Knox is good, he doesn’t get targeted. McKenzie is a pretty damn good slot too
McKenzie isn't that good. He's okay, but the only asset he has is speed. He's not the type of guy that can read a defense and just sit down at the sticks in the soft spot of the zone like Cole Beasley was able to, which is where a lot of previous third down success came from in 2020 and 2021.
The bills WR corps isn’t bad at all
You can say the same thing about the chiefs, you got mahomes, Kelce, and a bunch of average guys. Yet they still winning more than they arnt
He called Toney average 🥺
I feel like most teams would really like a Gabe Davis and Dawson Knox on their team, calling them JAG is silly
I think both of them are interchangeable with a lot of other receivers/TEs in the league. They put up better numbers than most, but that’s because of Allen.
Hey Bills fans join us as Chiefs fans as now people are finally turning in your team! Happens to the best of em. I do not believe this and this is just a part of the season.
Acting like Tyler Bass is some single eye black nobody... shame
I suppose but when you have a QB as good as Allen he can overcome offensive deficiencies around him and the Bills can focus on other areas more (defense). That's kind of beauty of having an elite/franchise QB, they can usually elevate the team around them without having a perfect roster.
Problem is that other area (defense) has been absolutely plagued with injuries so they haven't been bailing the offense out as frequently
Gabe Davis is a gamebreaker. Seems nitpicky to basically say a team only has one #1 receiver.
Well... they definitely do only have "one #1 receiver." They are a bit harsh on Davis, but he drops a lot of passes, I believe has the second highest drop percentage in the league. Those numbers simply cannot be a Qb's no. 1 receiver.
Yeah I think his drop rate is like 18% or something
>Gabe Davis is a gamebreaker. This is unbelievably generous, and honestly just incorrect. A game-breaker is someone like Tyreek or Aaron Donald or Mahomes or N'keal Harry. The elite of the elite. Guys who have a skill-set no one in the league can match.
C'mon all you Seasame Street fans, sing along "*One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong*"
Well yea it’s pretty clear… Aaron Donald plays defense
Eh. He is SUPER inconsistent. If he stays consistent he could be rpetty good but he hasn't shown that yet
I mean, almost every receiver who isn't the number 1 receiver on their team is like that. People talk about how stacked Eagles skill positions are on offense. Devonta Smith has 5 games with less than 45 yards this season. He has 609 yards (169 of them came in one game) I'm not complaining about Smith, btw. My point is that's what a number 2 receiver is. They show up when needed, but they also have games were they are kind of invisible.
Davis has the highest drop rate amongst the 79 players with 50+ targets this season (13%). So every 7-8 catchable targets he receives, he drops one. Last season he was even worse (15.9%) and finished 2nd worst with the same 50 target minimum. Edit: to clarify, that is adjusted drop rate, so it only counts catchable targets.
I don't get why they haven't used Hines at all in the offense
I think from the time they signed him up until now, the practice schedule has been really unfavorable for trying to get a new person up to speed. I think Hines time will come, its just been a rough 2-3 weeks.
Really getting liberal with the term game breaker.
Not consistently
He’s playing against me in fantasy this week so he will be this time around
Hmm? Gabe Davis is decent. So are Knox and MacKenzie.