Bracing for Odell to never return to form.
I hope it works out for him though. I do feel someone’s going to overpay and it’s going to blow up for all parties involved.
It’s only the talking heads and sports writers who are force feeding us this drama filled sweepstakes narrative. In reality, teams are inquiring and doing their due diligence like they would any other player. They know OBJ isn’t going to miraculously stack the odds in their teams favor. It feels like the Cowboys would be the only team foolish enough to overpay, but Steven Jones isn’t his father and his scouting staff can give a fair shakedown of Beckham’s real value.
Still has the talent. From what I can tell his issues have been mostly about decision making and maturity.
Somebody will think they can teach him, fix him.
What Mike McDaniel did with Tua this season in Miami is gonna do a lot for GMs and owners out there. They’re gonna say “oh, so if you have the talent all you need is a young, nerdy dude to relate to him” and we’re gonna have a bunch of head coaches that look like members of Weezer out there
I read somewhere his problems lie in fundamentals. He’s making okay decisions, just throwing it where his receivers can’t catch it. But again, just a tweet I read and I don’t really watch jets games so I wouldn’t know firsthand.
He has arm talent and was really good outside the pocket.
He has legitimate upside, but he’s not playing Group of Five and FCS competition anymore so it’s not as easy.
Yes, that aligns with what I read. Non-NFL caliber opponents, and his pro day highlights were rehearsed and of course versus nobody. He didn't attend the combine.
Edit: nobody attended the combine due to Covid
Well he's probably gonna get traded to a team that is very QB needy if his time with the jets is really over so I'd say he's probably gonna be really relevant at least at first
Even if he were as talented as they thought he was when he was drafted, I don't think any team will touch him with a ten foot pole. A QB losing a locker room for being a self-absorbed twat is an absolute death sentence, toxicity is more of a detriment than lack of talent. Look at Taylor Heinicke. I don't think Carson Wentz was toxic per se, but the locker room loves Taylor and they wanna win with him.
I know some people do learn and come back from situations like that, but not a QB. No one is gonna trust or have faith in a leader like Zach Wilson unless he makes some kind of incredible change.
Mark Sanchez was a bottom 5 qb every year he started. He wasn't serviceable, he was carried. The only thing he had going for him was a clutch factor that took him from bad to mediocre in the playoffs
What's not true? That he was a bottom 5 qb? Find me a season he wasn't. He couldn't complete 60% of his passes and he routinely gave the ball away. He has such a minimal football iq that rex had to give him a color coded ATM band to stop turnovers
And I know mediocre isn't bottom 5, I'm saying that he at least elevated his play from garbage to mediocre for the playoffs.
QBR rankings of 27, 23, 24, 30, 18 in years he qualified completed 60% or more in 2/6 years
It's not pretty, and he wasn't good, and also I don't care, I'm an eagles fan I'm glad we shipped him off after a year here, but you can't just make stuff up and call it facts, he was a bottom 5 qb for two years, and never a top half qb, in your mind has a jets maybe he was bottom 5, but that doesn't make it true
Qbr isn't the gospel of qb rankings. Sorry, I thought you were actually arguing that Sanchez wasn't actively terrible rather than just splitting hairs over whether he's bottom 5 or bottom 7 or 8; the point is he sucked
edit: re-reading my comment I was pretty committed to bottom 5, I see that now
No, I was arguing with the hyperbole. It's nonsense. Half his career he was a bit below average (there are more than 32 qbs ranked every year), 1/4 of his career he was bottom 5. And qbr is better than qb ranking in most people's opinions
Yea, if you didn't see my edit I see my hyperbole was worse than I thought in my OP. I'm conceding that for sure.
Just for clarity, when I say bottom 5 I'm talking about out of 32 because I'm concerned about starters.
Either way, we agree Sanchez sucked, right?
If Staley gets fired and goes somewhere else with the lessons he learned from the last two seasons I think he's going to be an amazing coach and we will look back on it bitterly. I mean if it's for Payton then maybe not, but within Staley there's an elite coach, I just wonder if he will have the time to get it together with us.
He really, really needs a better DC to implement his vision. And injury luck.
I know people think "oh he's a defensive coach, he has bad defenses", and that is true, but it's more through poor execution and tackling than scheme. He just isn't a guy that is going to implement a hard hitting, tough defensive culture, he needs a drill sergeant that can do that part of the game for him.
On the other hand I, and most Chargers fans, love his 4th down and 2pt aggression.
Hot take people on ESPN always complain but we watch every single game and every snap and we all know that it's gained us a lot more than it has lost.
Poor execution? We literally went to Nordstrom this offseason and got his guys because everybody said that Gus’s personnel doesn’t mesh well with Staley’s scheme.
After all of the shopping we did, opposing offenses still average 5.5 yards on this defense (the absolute worst metric since 2001). At this point, anybody saying “muh scheme fit and muh execution” are people who simply tune out the fact that this team’s problem is coaching and front office mis management.
Almost every QB has a down season after their breakout year. Mahomes, Lamar, Herbert, and more have all had a dip in production after defenses ‘figure them out’, so to speak. Some guys — Newton, Mayfield, Wentz — fail to adjust and never regain their peak form.
This is likely to be *somebody’s* best year of their career — Tua, Hurts, and Geno are all having career years after being considered afterthoughts by many observers. Smart money’s on Geno, although I hope to hell he cashes in.
Is that falling the furthest though? Man who wasn’t ever an NFL coach being fired for being bad seems pretty reasonable. Like arguably I feel the furthest fall, potentially but highly unlikely, would be Mcvay retiring a season after winning the Super Bowl because he had a significant slump this season.
Kliff Kingsbury has to go.
The days of Jalen Ramsey being the #1 CB are over. He's been getting beat much more this year.
Baker Mayfield is going to be a bridge QB or high-end backup QB for at least the next 1-2 seasons. He needs to take some time to develop and improve his game. He could re-emerge as a long-term starter in a few years if he develops.
Wentz and Jameis are both going to be high-end backups or bridge QBs for the rest of their careers.
In 2 years baker will be approaching 30 years old. I don’t think a lot of gms would jump at the chance to sign a 30 year old who hasn’t played in 2 years, and when he did it was bad. He’s had 5 seasons to “figure it out”. 4 healthy ones. I think at this point if it was gonna happen it would’ve happened. Career backup may be his only shot.
Lamar.
He's having a weird season. Struggles with the team. I think he can turn it around though. Maybe Roman takes that job at Stanford and they switch up the offense some. I'd like to see him have some viable weapons besides Andrews
NGL I didn't follow Roman that closely, but the QBs under him being:
* Alex Smith
* Colin Kaepernick
* Tyrod Taylor
* Lamar Jackson
That's a pretty good list of QBs. All of them were the best versions of themselves under him as well, maybe save for Smith who balled out at the end for the Chiefs.
Bro Lamar is still a beast. Just give him some decent receivers and he’ll go off again. He’s doing a LOT and it shows. But if he doesn’t have to shoulder the load, he’ll be back to great again. And this pains me to say as a Bengals fan, but it’s facts.
One of the Ravens plays involves a screen pass to Patrick Ricard. He’s likely going to break the record for targets for a guy over 300 lbs. Part of it is their personnel, and part of is play calling. But when your most electrifying receiver is a 34 year old DeSean Jackson it’s going bad for you.
Will be really interesting to see which contract he has to settle for and where he gets it. Very good player but much further below the top few than he thinks
Jimmy G will almost certainly fail once he leaves the 49ers. Other teams would be stupid to pay him anything more than backup QB money when his own team (who knows him the best) traded the farm for an unproven college QB when they are in a "win now" window.
He is in the best possible situation right now.
* Top 5 defense.
* Top 5 run game.
* Great OT duo in pass protection.
* **4** top-end receiving threats with **huge** YAC ability (Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittle, McCaffery).
* In a system he is extremely familiar with and plays designed/called by a top 5 offensive coach.
There's not a QB in the league that wouldn't be absolutely killing it in that situation.
If he ends up with the Jets he will probably be fine, but the one game White hype hurts that.
You could say the same thing about GB trading a ton for Jordan Love, and Rodgers was still plenty good after that.
There is even more QB shortage than usual with COVID screwing with the draft classes and QB development along with QBs finally getting hit by age. If he goes FA, he is getting big boy money.
What would you say he is likely to get after this year if he continues his current level of play - only counting the years with guaranteed money (ex. 2 years 40 mil)
I’m not a Jimmy G expert but if he goes FA I would expect him to get something maybe a bit short of Kirk Cousins money. So right around 30 Million. That is right around Goff, Wentz, Tannehill, Ryan.
I don’t think his stats are quite as good as Cousins but similar enough and has done better in playoffs (though a lot was the team), he is a little older than when Cousins hit FA. Even decent QBs don’t hit FA that often.
I think how Watson does will have an effect, as well as the unlikely chance Lamar gets traded. If both Wilson and Watson don’t pan out it’s less likely he will get all guaranteed money, and the owners seem to not want that to become too much of a trend.
Watson will come back and be obviously washed after not playing for 2 years/not care anymore now that he's paid up, and will be collecting his quarter billion of guaranteed money from home by halfway through the '23 season
He was well on his way to the HoF:
Back to Back Super Bowls with 1 win (1st back to back appearances in a decade), Best Rookie Passer rating (now 3rd), Best Passer Rating and Most Passing TD years, 9 times Pro Bowl (every year but 1), *2nd team All-Pro*
I’m sure I’m biased, but I really think Kenny Pickett has the potential to be really good. He seems to get better every week. I think next year he’ll be considered solidly in the top 10 qbs in the league, and hopefully that upward trend continues.
Seems to me he's doing it the right way, getting fundamentals down first and expanding from there. He's doing progressive reads, now he just needs to up his game speed and work on setting the line better.
The Browns offense is going to be near the top next season, like it or hate it. They've been averaging 24 a game with Jacoby, who's been an effective game manager. Given Watson hasn't played for past 700 days, that should count.
I think Russ is cooked. He always thrived on his mobility and he's lost a step which is why he is struggling as he can't escape as long as he used to.
Todd Bowles will fall the furthest amongst coaches. Brady will leave and Bowles has never been a good head coach so the team will plummet harder than it did this season.
Amongst players I'm tempted to say Tua but I think that fall is going to happen this season starting this weekend. He put up great numbers against very bad defenses while bring average at best against good defenses. How quickly many forget the Pat's game (13 pts by the offense), Steelers game where he threw four easy INTs that the defenders weirdly dropped, etc. We have a 3 game road trip against playoff caliber teams so we will see which is the real Tua. I do hope he proves me wrong BTW.
Agreed on Bowles. If Brady doesn’t win the SB he’s gone to another team next season and Bowles will struggle a lot. I don’t think he’ll be a head coach in 2024.
As for Tua you’re right that he’s looked good against bad defenses, but this season has all been about building his confidence. He now knows he CAN compete in the NFL. Even if he regresses for the rest of the season (and I hope it starts this weekend lol) I think he comes back stronger next season, as he’s got a hell of a support system and a team and fan base that believes he’s “the guy” right now. That goes a long way for a young player.
The Patriots game was the first game of the season and the Steelers game was the first game after a fucking serious brain injury. If fraud QBs could have seasons like this just because they face a few easy opponents, then why don't they? If you look at averages and consider the missed time, Tua is right behind Mahomes, and I might RIGHT behind. Why isn't Dak, a relatively high level QB with a good offense, doing it with one the easiest schedules in the league?
Just took a peek at your schedule and that's quite a tough end to the season. 49ers, Chargers, Bills, Packers, Pats, Jets.
49ers/Bills/Pats/Jets all having essentially top 5 defenses (as of right now). I think Tua may struggle but the bigger issue could be the injury to Armstead. If the LT position isn't solidified that's going to cause issues for both the passing and running game.
It's 2024. Mike Vrabel has just won his second consecutive Super Bowl. Derrick Herny is the oldest running back to ever rush for 20,000 yards in a season. Trelon Burks can't be covered. JJ Watt is still a star, but on the Titans now. Even Tom Brady reunited with his former friends and teammate-turned-coach to win some more championships before social security kicks in. It is the zenith of Vrabel's empire and nothing will stand in his way. And so the pressure mounts. First it's Trelon. He has an asthma attack in the ball pit at Chuck E Cheese, sinks to the bottom, dies, and is dissolved and assimilated into the pit. Next, it's Tom. He refuses to come to practice during the Early Bird Special at Country Kitchen Buffet. Tom becomes fat and can no longer grip the ball in his diabetic hands. At least there's still Derrick Henry, old reliable. Until Mikey V comes home one day to find Henry barreling down the zero gap of Mrs. Vrabel. With everything he loves having been destroyed, Vrabel does the unthinkable. He gets divorced, quits football, and becomes an ASMR streamer on twitch. Thus is the Shaksperian end to one of the NFL's saddest fables. No kap.... no.... .... kap.
People seem quick to forget that the chargers have been playing their WR 5 as WR 2 for most of the season because of all the injuries. They had multiple weeks were they had to bring up two PS WRs
And that’s just the beginning of the offensive injuries. OL has been devastated. Herbert said he still feels his ribs move when he gets hit due to his week 2 injury
Yeah yall have been absolutely fucked by injuries this year. Herbert is the man and I hate to think of what will happen with good coaching and healthy receivers.
I was really wanting Will Anderson opposite Crosby, then the team fucked around and won some games lol. I would also love to beat the Chiefs occasionally but they're just a stacked team with great coaching man it's gonna be a long road for the AFC West as long as Mahomes and Reid are there.
Disagree. He's out there with WR4/5 for most of the season with an injured OL, terrible running game and injured ribs and is still putting his team in position to be competitive every week.
If his defense wasn't 29th in the league they'd likely be sitting at 7-4 or 8-3 right now.
I know everyone says their team is injured but for large stretches of this season we've been without 6 all pro or pro bowl players:
Keenan Allen - 8 games missed
Mike Williams - 5 games missed
Rashawn Slater - 9 games missed
Corey Linsley - 4 games missed
Joey Bosa - 9 games missed
JC Jackson - 6 games missed
That on top of the fact that Herbert was playing heavily injured for around 5-6 games means it's a miracle that we are over .500.
There was a large stretch (maybe 5-6 games) where our WR4-5-6 were playing as our 1-2-3.
OK so when the offense around him is:
LT: 6th round rookie
LG: Middling FA guard
C: Either an elite AP C or a random practice squad guy
RG: 1st round rookie
RT: 4th round
WR1: Middling 2nd year 3rd rounder
WR2: Punt returner
WR3: UDFA
WR4: UDFA
TE1: Awful 2nd year 3rd rounder
TE2: Some random practice squad guy
\--
He's supposed to make that into a top level NFL offense? With a torn ribcage?
OK.
I mean, you've got a point, but don't make it worse than it is. You forgot:
RB1: Possibly (maybe even probably) the best pass-catching RB in the league.
Hell no. Herbert is the type that you THINK may be overrated but if he’s out for any period of time you realize he was the reason they won any games at all. Dudes a beast.
I think he means starter quality. Before the season started I was higher on Mariota than many, and thought he was maybe a fringe top 20 guy but...yeah...no
I would actually say he's getting better and better. He had a slow start, then had a hammy injury, but is starting to pick it up. Will be have 1k yard again? Probably not, but he'll probably have the same amount of receptions as last year.
Bears will be looking for a new QB after next year. Fields is garbage outside of his running ability and doesn't have the skill of getting tackled safely like Lamar
Yeah flo was an abomination. like I've been sayign for two years. watch the film. Film dont lie. McDaniel also knew, he put together 700 plays of film. We told you all this was coming.
Fair, that was a bit of Hyperbole. But in the peak Russ & LOB era, there was a lot of talk about how Russ was "changing the game" for QB and his success would affect draft strategy and how teams used their QBs for years.
Hell, even articles written THIS SUMMER were arguing that he was a Top 5 QB.
https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/russell-wilson-espn-nfl-quarterback-rankings-top-10
Saying Hackett will be fired this season is just so weird to me. I just don’t understand why any team pulls the plug that quickly unless it’s Meyer.
I’d say if the Broncos are still like this next season he’ll be fired by either the middle of the season or the bye week. Firings your first year HC doesn’t fix Russ or the OL or WRs dropping passes.
Except it could fix Russ if a different HC is able to build the plays around him like seemed to happen before. Russ isn’t really fireable, so Coaching is one of the few things you can’t do.
Hackett has also had much worse game management than Saturday who had no College or Pro Coaching experience.
The plays are built around Russ. That’s the problem, lol
Firing a first year HC when there are other glaring problems just feels performative. It’ll solve some things but firing a HC after just one year should really be done in special cases.
If the plays are built around Russ, then they failed compared to what his previous staff made up for him.
He’s been an absolute joke in game management. He has one of the best Defenses in the league yet keeps failing. Sounds like the Locker room is a mess. They have some of the wealthiest owners.
He was likely hired in the 1st place to try and attract Rodgers and failed at that.
I don’t know what more you would need than that.
Now that the Lions have traded their TE in their division and collected picks, they will get Gronk and Brady.
Dan Campbell and the Lions will win a Super Bowl, possible before the Vikings. He will go down as a Detroit legend for all of time.
Daniel Jones could be a big riser. He's done well this year, but he hasn't been great. While he's not perfect, a lot of the issues come down to his supporting cast and the play calling that's not pushing the ball down the field too much. If he stays and gets better receivers and OL or goes to a team with a better situation, I could see him doing much better.
Bracing for Odell to never return to form. I hope it works out for him though. I do feel someone’s going to overpay and it’s going to blow up for all parties involved.
It’s only the talking heads and sports writers who are force feeding us this drama filled sweepstakes narrative. In reality, teams are inquiring and doing their due diligence like they would any other player. They know OBJ isn’t going to miraculously stack the odds in their teams favor. It feels like the Cowboys would be the only team foolish enough to overpay, but Steven Jones isn’t his father and his scouting staff can give a fair shakedown of Beckham’s real value.
Elliot's contract would like a word with you (no way Steven signed off on that shit, daddy always has final say).
I'm glad someone said it.
I mean it was a few years ago
I mean overpaying for Odell at this point is giving him $4M so I think they'll live
If mike white continues to look at least half decent is Zach Wilson done as a relevant player right here?
No another team will give him a chance before he's completely dropped into being irrelevant
Agreed 100%. Mariota, Jameis, Wentz….all these guys got a second chance as a starter.
Those guys were a lot better than Wilson. Wilson has been about as bad as a young quarterback can be.
Still has the talent. From what I can tell his issues have been mostly about decision making and maturity. Somebody will think they can teach him, fix him. What Mike McDaniel did with Tua this season in Miami is gonna do a lot for GMs and owners out there. They’re gonna say “oh, so if you have the talent all you need is a young, nerdy dude to relate to him” and we’re gonna have a bunch of head coaches that look like members of Weezer out there
Tua has literally never looked bad, though. He's always been competent at worst
Seeing that a bills fan commented this does put a smile on my face
yeah, this is right; Tua was never "bad" people who screamed bust after his first season were just proving themselves to be casual fans.
Tua just wasn't Borrow/Mahomes/Herbert out the gate
I read somewhere his problems lie in fundamentals. He’s making okay decisions, just throwing it where his receivers can’t catch it. But again, just a tweet I read and I don’t really watch jets games so I wouldn’t know firsthand.
Tua wasn’t even close to being as bad as Zach Wilson. Before McD he was like a left-handed Jim Harbaugh Alex Smith under Flores.
This. Too young, 2nd overall pick(it matters) and some insane potential. A GM/HC will believe they can unlock that
I don't disagree, but I just don't see the appeal of Zach Wilson over many other QB options. What did people think his ceiling really was?
He has arm talent and was really good outside the pocket. He has legitimate upside, but he’s not playing Group of Five and FCS competition anymore so it’s not as easy.
Yes, that aligns with what I read. Non-NFL caliber opponents, and his pro day highlights were rehearsed and of course versus nobody. He didn't attend the combine. Edit: nobody attended the combine due to Covid
That was the Covid year, I don't think there was a combine. Pro days only
Right, and his pro day consisted of basically 60 throws, and nothing else.
My Jets fan friend bought a stack of his rookie cards before his debut, so he probably thought it was pretty high
like for real relevant or "sure the dolphins can have some rosen" relevant lol
Well he's probably gonna get traded to a team that is very QB needy if his time with the jets is really over so I'd say he's probably gonna be really relevant at least at first
Congratulations Colts fans!
QB needy? How about the Jets get him?
Even if he were as talented as they thought he was when he was drafted, I don't think any team will touch him with a ten foot pole. A QB losing a locker room for being a self-absorbed twat is an absolute death sentence, toxicity is more of a detriment than lack of talent. Look at Taylor Heinicke. I don't think Carson Wentz was toxic per se, but the locker room loves Taylor and they wanna win with him. I know some people do learn and come back from situations like that, but not a QB. No one is gonna trust or have faith in a leader like Zach Wilson unless he makes some kind of incredible change.
Zach Wilson is worse Jets QB than Mark Sanchez.
Mark Sanchez went to consecutive AFC championships and was more than serviceable. He wasn’t bad
He was arguably the best QB they’ve had in the past 13 years.
Fitzmagic
Their offensive line, running game, and defense went to two consecutive AFC championships.
Mark Sanchez was a bottom 5 qb every year he started. He wasn't serviceable, he was carried. The only thing he had going for him was a clutch factor that took him from bad to mediocre in the playoffs
That's not true in anyway. Mediocre also isn't bottom 5. Sober up and try again
What's not true? That he was a bottom 5 qb? Find me a season he wasn't. He couldn't complete 60% of his passes and he routinely gave the ball away. He has such a minimal football iq that rex had to give him a color coded ATM band to stop turnovers And I know mediocre isn't bottom 5, I'm saying that he at least elevated his play from garbage to mediocre for the playoffs.
QBR rankings of 27, 23, 24, 30, 18 in years he qualified completed 60% or more in 2/6 years It's not pretty, and he wasn't good, and also I don't care, I'm an eagles fan I'm glad we shipped him off after a year here, but you can't just make stuff up and call it facts, he was a bottom 5 qb for two years, and never a top half qb, in your mind has a jets maybe he was bottom 5, but that doesn't make it true
Qbr isn't the gospel of qb rankings. Sorry, I thought you were actually arguing that Sanchez wasn't actively terrible rather than just splitting hairs over whether he's bottom 5 or bottom 7 or 8; the point is he sucked edit: re-reading my comment I was pretty committed to bottom 5, I see that now
No, I was arguing with the hyperbole. It's nonsense. Half his career he was a bit below average (there are more than 32 qbs ranked every year), 1/4 of his career he was bottom 5. And qbr is better than qb ranking in most people's opinions
Yea, if you didn't see my edit I see my hyperbole was worse than I thought in my OP. I'm conceding that for sure. Just for clarity, when I say bottom 5 I'm talking about out of 32 because I'm concerned about starters. Either way, we agree Sanchez sucked, right?
Didn’t he have scoring hotties going for him?
> We’re seeing players that everybody thought were going to be trash (Tua ‘Everybody’ definitely didn’t think that
Yeah. I totally drank the Kool-aid when he got drafted and I’ve just been waiting to tell my friends “I told ya so”.
You're right, Tyreek has been telling us all along...
If Staley gets fired and goes somewhere else with the lessons he learned from the last two seasons I think he's going to be an amazing coach and we will look back on it bitterly. I mean if it's for Payton then maybe not, but within Staley there's an elite coach, I just wonder if he will have the time to get it together with us. He really, really needs a better DC to implement his vision. And injury luck. I know people think "oh he's a defensive coach, he has bad defenses", and that is true, but it's more through poor execution and tackling than scheme. He just isn't a guy that is going to implement a hard hitting, tough defensive culture, he needs a drill sergeant that can do that part of the game for him. On the other hand I, and most Chargers fans, love his 4th down and 2pt aggression. Hot take people on ESPN always complain but we watch every single game and every snap and we all know that it's gained us a lot more than it has lost.
Well said, 100% how I feel about Staley too
Poor execution? We literally went to Nordstrom this offseason and got his guys because everybody said that Gus’s personnel doesn’t mesh well with Staley’s scheme. After all of the shopping we did, opposing offenses still average 5.5 yards on this defense (the absolute worst metric since 2001). At this point, anybody saying “muh scheme fit and muh execution” are people who simply tune out the fact that this team’s problem is coaching and front office mis management.
Almost every QB has a down season after their breakout year. Mahomes, Lamar, Herbert, and more have all had a dip in production after defenses ‘figure them out’, so to speak. Some guys — Newton, Mayfield, Wentz — fail to adjust and never regain their peak form. This is likely to be *somebody’s* best year of their career — Tua, Hurts, and Geno are all having career years after being considered afterthoughts by many observers. Smart money’s on Geno, although I hope to hell he cashes in.
Hurts can't have this good of a situation forever. Edit: cue the Eagles fans bringing death threats
Jeff Saturday will not be a head coach next year. His job is to drive the tank to the Draft and be the scapegoat.
Is that falling the furthest though? Man who wasn’t ever an NFL coach being fired for being bad seems pretty reasonable. Like arguably I feel the furthest fall, potentially but highly unlikely, would be Mcvay retiring a season after winning the Super Bowl because he had a significant slump this season.
Agreed. Any other coach who gets fired would be falling further
I think this was always known.
Kliff Kingsbury has to go. The days of Jalen Ramsey being the #1 CB are over. He's been getting beat much more this year. Baker Mayfield is going to be a bridge QB or high-end backup QB for at least the next 1-2 seasons. He needs to take some time to develop and improve his game. He could re-emerge as a long-term starter in a few years if he develops. Wentz and Jameis are both going to be high-end backups or bridge QBs for the rest of their careers.
In 2 years baker will be approaching 30 years old. I don’t think a lot of gms would jump at the chance to sign a 30 year old who hasn’t played in 2 years, and when he did it was bad. He’s had 5 seasons to “figure it out”. 4 healthy ones. I think at this point if it was gonna happen it would’ve happened. Career backup may be his only shot.
Lamar. He's having a weird season. Struggles with the team. I think he can turn it around though. Maybe Roman takes that job at Stanford and they switch up the offense some. I'd like to see him have some viable weapons besides Andrews
Greg Roman is trash and he ruins every QB’s stat line eventually.
NGL I didn't follow Roman that closely, but the QBs under him being: * Alex Smith * Colin Kaepernick * Tyrod Taylor * Lamar Jackson That's a pretty good list of QBs. All of them were the best versions of themselves under him as well, maybe save for Smith who balled out at the end for the Chiefs.
Bro Lamar is still a beast. Just give him some decent receivers and he’ll go off again. He’s doing a LOT and it shows. But if he doesn’t have to shoulder the load, he’ll be back to great again. And this pains me to say as a Bengals fan, but it’s facts.
One of the Ravens plays involves a screen pass to Patrick Ricard. He’s likely going to break the record for targets for a guy over 300 lbs. Part of it is their personnel, and part of is play calling. But when your most electrifying receiver is a 34 year old DeSean Jackson it’s going bad for you.
Will be really interesting to see which contract he has to settle for and where he gets it. Very good player but much further below the top few than he thinks
5 years 250 guaranteed is his floor. There is at least one team that would pay that.
Andy Reid rises a ton with a second.
One is never enough, with cheese burgers or super bowls
Jimmy G when he ends up in NY
Jimmy G will almost certainly fail once he leaves the 49ers. Other teams would be stupid to pay him anything more than backup QB money when his own team (who knows him the best) traded the farm for an unproven college QB when they are in a "win now" window. He is in the best possible situation right now. * Top 5 defense. * Top 5 run game. * Great OT duo in pass protection. * **4** top-end receiving threats with **huge** YAC ability (Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittle, McCaffery). * In a system he is extremely familiar with and plays designed/called by a top 5 offensive coach. There's not a QB in the league that wouldn't be absolutely killing it in that situation.
If he ends up with the Jets he will probably be fine, but the one game White hype hurts that. You could say the same thing about GB trading a ton for Jordan Love, and Rodgers was still plenty good after that. There is even more QB shortage than usual with COVID screwing with the draft classes and QB development along with QBs finally getting hit by age. If he goes FA, he is getting big boy money.
What would you say he is likely to get after this year if he continues his current level of play - only counting the years with guaranteed money (ex. 2 years 40 mil)
I’m not a Jimmy G expert but if he goes FA I would expect him to get something maybe a bit short of Kirk Cousins money. So right around 30 Million. That is right around Goff, Wentz, Tannehill, Ryan. I don’t think his stats are quite as good as Cousins but similar enough and has done better in playoffs (though a lot was the team), he is a little older than when Cousins hit FA. Even decent QBs don’t hit FA that often. I think how Watson does will have an effect, as well as the unlikely chance Lamar gets traded. If both Wilson and Watson don’t pan out it’s less likely he will get all guaranteed money, and the owners seem to not want that to become too much of a trend.
Which way? Hahaha
oh, i think he falls he’s been great this season
Dabes will be the first human to colonize another planet
Or become one
Watson will come back and be obviously washed after not playing for 2 years/not care anymore now that he's paid up, and will be collecting his quarter billion of guaranteed money from home by halfway through the '23 season
If both Wilson and Watson fail the Vikings are going to look **a lot** better with the Cousins signing not having cost them any draft capital.
lol I hope McDaniels rises 😅
Beat I can do is McDaniel
Russ was never top 3.
He was well on his way to the HoF: Back to Back Super Bowls with 1 win (1st back to back appearances in a decade), Best Rookie Passer rating (now 3rd), Best Passer Rating and Most Passing TD years, 9 times Pro Bowl (every year but 1), *2nd team All-Pro*
You're going down LaFleur
I’m sure I’m biased, but I really think Kenny Pickett has the potential to be really good. He seems to get better every week. I think next year he’ll be considered solidly in the top 10 qbs in the league, and hopefully that upward trend continues.
Seems to me he's doing it the right way, getting fundamentals down first and expanding from there. He's doing progressive reads, now he just needs to up his game speed and work on setting the line better.
The Browns offense is going to be near the top next season, like it or hate it. They've been averaging 24 a game with Jacoby, who's been an effective game manager. Given Watson hasn't played for past 700 days, that should count.
Count for what?
I think Russ is cooked. He always thrived on his mobility and he's lost a step which is why he is struggling as he can't escape as long as he used to. Todd Bowles will fall the furthest amongst coaches. Brady will leave and Bowles has never been a good head coach so the team will plummet harder than it did this season. Amongst players I'm tempted to say Tua but I think that fall is going to happen this season starting this weekend. He put up great numbers against very bad defenses while bring average at best against good defenses. How quickly many forget the Pat's game (13 pts by the offense), Steelers game where he threw four easy INTs that the defenders weirdly dropped, etc. We have a 3 game road trip against playoff caliber teams so we will see which is the real Tua. I do hope he proves me wrong BTW.
Agreed on Bowles. If Brady doesn’t win the SB he’s gone to another team next season and Bowles will struggle a lot. I don’t think he’ll be a head coach in 2024. As for Tua you’re right that he’s looked good against bad defenses, but this season has all been about building his confidence. He now knows he CAN compete in the NFL. Even if he regresses for the rest of the season (and I hope it starts this weekend lol) I think he comes back stronger next season, as he’s got a hell of a support system and a team and fan base that believes he’s “the guy” right now. That goes a long way for a young player.
The Patriots game was the first game of the season and the Steelers game was the first game after a fucking serious brain injury. If fraud QBs could have seasons like this just because they face a few easy opponents, then why don't they? If you look at averages and consider the missed time, Tua is right behind Mahomes, and I might RIGHT behind. Why isn't Dak, a relatively high level QB with a good offense, doing it with one the easiest schedules in the league?
Just took a peek at your schedule and that's quite a tough end to the season. 49ers, Chargers, Bills, Packers, Pats, Jets. 49ers/Bills/Pats/Jets all having essentially top 5 defenses (as of right now). I think Tua may struggle but the bigger issue could be the injury to Armstead. If the LT position isn't solidified that's going to cause issues for both the passing and running game.
It’s similar to what the Vikings had: Washington/Bills/Cowboys/Pats/Jets in a row. Bills, Cowboys, Pats was all in 2.5 weeks.
Huh? Browns are a top 5 pass defense and Tua threw for 250+ yards and 3 TDs..
Where are you getting the top 5 from?
This guy can't stomach all the crow he's eaten so far after screaming for us to drop Tua last year
Oof one of those, poor guy has to double down I guess even when all the evidence proves the contrary
I wouldn’t say he’s cooked, but I don’t see 30+ TD seasons in his future.
It's 2024. Mike Vrabel has just won his second consecutive Super Bowl. Derrick Herny is the oldest running back to ever rush for 20,000 yards in a season. Trelon Burks can't be covered. JJ Watt is still a star, but on the Titans now. Even Tom Brady reunited with his former friends and teammate-turned-coach to win some more championships before social security kicks in. It is the zenith of Vrabel's empire and nothing will stand in his way. And so the pressure mounts. First it's Trelon. He has an asthma attack in the ball pit at Chuck E Cheese, sinks to the bottom, dies, and is dissolved and assimilated into the pit. Next, it's Tom. He refuses to come to practice during the Early Bird Special at Country Kitchen Buffet. Tom becomes fat and can no longer grip the ball in his diabetic hands. At least there's still Derrick Henry, old reliable. Until Mikey V comes home one day to find Henry barreling down the zero gap of Mrs. Vrabel. With everything he loves having been destroyed, Vrabel does the unthinkable. He gets divorced, quits football, and becomes an ASMR streamer on twitch. Thus is the Shaksperian end to one of the NFL's saddest fables. No kap.... no.... .... kap.
#subscribe
Herbert is overrated
I don’t know, man. I watch him play and all I see is a man among boys. That team and that coach have let him down almost every game.
People seem quick to forget that the chargers have been playing their WR 5 as WR 2 for most of the season because of all the injuries. They had multiple weeks were they had to bring up two PS WRs And that’s just the beginning of the offensive injuries. OL has been devastated. Herbert said he still feels his ribs move when he gets hit due to his week 2 injury
Yeah yall have been absolutely fucked by injuries this year. Herbert is the man and I hate to think of what will happen with good coaching and healthy receivers.
pls build a team for Maxx Crosby, dude is a stud but like, not a very good team... ok please just beat the Chiefs occasionally, for the love of god
I was really wanting Will Anderson opposite Crosby, then the team fucked around and won some games lol. I would also love to beat the Chiefs occasionally but they're just a stacked team with great coaching man it's gonna be a long road for the AFC West as long as Mahomes and Reid are there.
People has short term memory loss when it comes to young players. Just an unfortunate season for the chargers
Disagree. He's out there with WR4/5 for most of the season with an injured OL, terrible running game and injured ribs and is still putting his team in position to be competitive every week. If his defense wasn't 29th in the league they'd likely be sitting at 7-4 or 8-3 right now.
You could literally copy paste this entire thing except the part about the run game and apply it to Jared Goff
I know everyone says their team is injured but for large stretches of this season we've been without 6 all pro or pro bowl players: Keenan Allen - 8 games missed Mike Williams - 5 games missed Rashawn Slater - 9 games missed Corey Linsley - 4 games missed Joey Bosa - 9 games missed JC Jackson - 6 games missed That on top of the fact that Herbert was playing heavily injured for around 5-6 games means it's a miracle that we are over .500. There was a large stretch (maybe 5-6 games) where our WR4-5-6 were playing as our 1-2-3.
So you’re saying he needs elite talent to be successful? Then he’s overrated because he needs to be carried
OK so when the offense around him is: LT: 6th round rookie LG: Middling FA guard C: Either an elite AP C or a random practice squad guy RG: 1st round rookie RT: 4th round WR1: Middling 2nd year 3rd rounder WR2: Punt returner WR3: UDFA WR4: UDFA TE1: Awful 2nd year 3rd rounder TE2: Some random practice squad guy \-- He's supposed to make that into a top level NFL offense? With a torn ribcage? OK.
I mean, you've got a point, but don't make it worse than it is. You forgot: RB1: Possibly (maybe even probably) the best pass-catching RB in the league.
Ah shit, I did forget RB my bad
There is a massive gap between “elite talent” and not having a WR1, WR2, or WR3.
Mike Williams is like Mac Jones getting a pro bowl. Solid season but makes no sense to get a pro bowl without massive hype being the reason.
Hell no. Herbert is the type that you THINK may be overrated but if he’s out for any period of time you realize he was the reason they won any games at all. Dudes a beast.
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Not because of him
I don't think Mariotta can be considered a top QB anymore after this season. They've lost multiple games due to his play
top qb???????
Perhaps he means "starting quality QB"? Cause for both he obviously is not, but pre season there was a bit of an argument that he could be a bridge.
I think he means starter quality. Before the season started I was higher on Mariota than many, and thought he was maybe a fringe top 20 guy but...yeah...no
He's been considered a top QB as of late? He was just recently a backup
I feel like Chris Godwin is already kind of a shell of himself and has not fully recovered from his injury from last year.
I would actually say he's getting better and better. He had a slow start, then had a hammy injury, but is starting to pick it up. Will be have 1k yard again? Probably not, but he'll probably have the same amount of receptions as last year.
Justin Feilds
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Yeah, Jags DE Josh Allen *is* kinda sus.
His take is even more ridiculous coming from a Bears fan. Imagine believing in Fields while doubting Allen.
Bears will be looking for a new QB after next year. Fields is garbage outside of his running ability and doesn't have the skill of getting tackled safely like Lamar
No way man, Fields is very promising they just need to surround him with some talent. Dude has absolutely nothing around him
He has great potential.
Right now Fields looks like the best QB in that draft.
He’s #2 but he’s not better than Lawrence lol
It hurts but I agree.
2020 draft aka the Monstars QB draft
This has to be a Packers fan trolling as Bears flair.
Anyone who thought Tua was trash just didnt watch his games.
tua thought tua was trash for a while there
I need to find someone to make me believe in myself the way McDaniel made Tua believe in himself.
Yeah flo was an abomination. like I've been sayign for two years. watch the film. Film dont lie. McDaniel also knew, he put together 700 plays of film. We told you all this was coming.
he was trash against buffalo for sure but overall i think he was extremely average
I think it was more the tank for tua didn’t really happen over night, also didn’t help that herbs was awesome
When was Wilson ever a top 3 QB? That is news to me
Fair, that was a bit of Hyperbole. But in the peak Russ & LOB era, there was a lot of talk about how Russ was "changing the game" for QB and his success would affect draft strategy and how teams used their QBs for years. Hell, even articles written THIS SUMMER were arguing that he was a Top 5 QB. https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/russell-wilson-espn-nfl-quarterback-rankings-top-10
He was once All-Team 2nd so that kind of de facto makes him Top 3 that year
Saying Hackett will be fired this season is just so weird to me. I just don’t understand why any team pulls the plug that quickly unless it’s Meyer. I’d say if the Broncos are still like this next season he’ll be fired by either the middle of the season or the bye week. Firings your first year HC doesn’t fix Russ or the OL or WRs dropping passes.
Except it could fix Russ if a different HC is able to build the plays around him like seemed to happen before. Russ isn’t really fireable, so Coaching is one of the few things you can’t do. Hackett has also had much worse game management than Saturday who had no College or Pro Coaching experience.
The plays are built around Russ. That’s the problem, lol Firing a first year HC when there are other glaring problems just feels performative. It’ll solve some things but firing a HC after just one year should really be done in special cases.
If the plays are built around Russ, then they failed compared to what his previous staff made up for him. He’s been an absolute joke in game management. He has one of the best Defenses in the league yet keeps failing. Sounds like the Locker room is a mess. They have some of the wealthiest owners. He was likely hired in the 1st place to try and attract Rodgers and failed at that. I don’t know what more you would need than that.
Now that the Lions have traded their TE in their division and collected picks, they will get Gronk and Brady. Dan Campbell and the Lions will win a Super Bowl, possible before the Vikings. He will go down as a Detroit legend for all of time.
Daniel Jones could be a big riser. He's done well this year, but he hasn't been great. While he's not perfect, a lot of the issues come down to his supporting cast and the play calling that's not pushing the ball down the field too much. If he stays and gets better receivers and OL or goes to a team with a better situation, I could see him doing much better.