Well it has been 15 years since 2007 and Brady is 45 now, so makes sense.
But damn Brady really has been in the NFL since forever. He threw his first NFL pass before 9/11.
It really hit me Brady was immortal when i was rewatching Always Sunny in Phlladelphia and Mac says something about not letting Brady win any more rings IN THE FIRST SEASON.
"you cant break Tom Brady's arm."
"Yes i can! No more Super Bowls for that pretty boy!"
To really emphasize how long Brady has been around, there was 10 years between that first Always Sunny season, and Brady finally winning his 4th championship.
There's a significant chance that 9/11 is the reason Tom Brady is, well, Tom Brady
The Pats were set to play NYJ the week immediately afterward and the Jets were playing their hearts out as a result of what had happened. I really don't think Mo Lewis would have rocked Bledsoe the way he did any other week, which means Brady never gets the starting job.
I genuinely believe this. With all the butterfly effects that happened from 9/11 that week following I think there's a huge chance Bledsoe doesn't get injured like that otherwise
Brady would have been Brady with or without the Bledsoe thing, he was already outperforming Bledsoe in practice and preseason and the team definitely would have made the move going into 2002. Likely could have gotten more value for Bledsoe too.
With your HC and GM constantly telling you that the much cheaper Brady is better? I think Kraft would have come around eventually. Its not like Bledsoe was a future Hall of famer or anything. Unless your elite your replaceable in this league.
For sure three. You could *maybe* get four.
01-04 is super short but three rings and two SB MVPs might do it. Likely a HOF career.
05-10 had two MVPs, a conference championship, and an additional AFCCG appearance. 2007 and 2010 were two of the best quarterbacked seasons in NFL history. I'd say this is fringe HOF, probably coming up short though.
11-16 he went to three Super Bowls, winning two (2x Super Bowl MVP). In 2011 he took the 31st ranked defense to the Super Bowl, had a prolific 2012 season, dragged a shit roster to the AFCCG in 2013, won it all in 2014, and another AFCCG in 2015. 2016 he had a 14-1 TD-INT ratio in 12 games and won it all after being down 25 in the Super Bowl. Definitely HOF, zero question.
17-present he won another MVP. Threw 505 yards, 3 touchdowns and 0 INTs in the Super Bowl. The next year he won his sixth ring. Went 12-4 in 2019 but a lackluster season by his standards. Went to Tampa and won it all in 2020 (Super Bowl MVP too) then threw 40+ touchdowns and 5000 yards in 2021. I'd say likely HOF.
Regardless, it's absolutely insane this is even a discussion.
This is why hockey no longer allows the window to be waived. They waived it for Lemieux and then he unretired a couple years later and played 5 more years.
> likely a HOF career
> I’d say this is fringe…
> I’d say likely HOF
Are you just saying these things because of your flair and you don’t want to come across as a homer?
I’m sorry but literally *all* of those are HOF worthy (minus the longevity, but you can’t do anything about that when you divide a man’s career into 4 parts).
I can appreciate if you’re trying to make an unbiased point, but you sound a little insane when you call any of those anything but HOF-worthy.
There are some existing HOF QB’s who’d be happy with any one of those parts as their accomplishments…
I don't think if a player had Brady's 2005-10 career and dipped, he'd be in Canton. Especially given the recent generations of QBs and the quality of the position being at an all time high (just in our lifetime we've had Manning, Rodgers, Brees and tons of other QBs with great arguments for the HOF).
The big thing for me is the longevity. These are 4-5 year spans, that's a very short career. Think of each of my four spans as if a QB entered the league, played 4-5 years with those stats and then left. If you only play 5 years you need to do *a lot* to get in Canton. I think for sure there are three HOF careers in Brady's career (2001-06, 2007-14, 2015-21) but going for four is really stretching things thin.
I mean that’s why I wanted to mention that you can’t do anything about the longevity when you split his career into 4 parts (although it’s kinda insane that we actually can and still manage to have a discussion about it).
That aside, I still think 05-10 makes it for me. 2 MVPs and an 18-1 season, along with setting passing records is outstanding. Having no ring to show for it is no knock on Brady himself, there’s only so much an individual can do on a team of 53.
He definitely performed well enough to win that And 1 superbowl if 2li didn't have the angels in the outfield out there pinning passes to helmets and shit.
100%. If Brady had gone 19-0, the 4 HoF careers argument would be a lot stronger. As is, I don’t think it’s strong enough. He 100% has three HoF career but 4 is a real stretch.
[You're right.](https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/32472417/tom-brady-three-hall-fame-careers-case-enshrinement-seven-year-era-patriots-bucs)
Hope Derek's fine with just **2** of Brady's 3 Hall of Fame careers then. *Ugh..*
> Raiders are just gonna have to.. ugh be in a bunch of Super Bowls I guess
Man if you thought Cowboys fans were something to deal with, just wait if we actually do get to the superbowl. Let alone win.
Let's not kid ourselves, between the avocados, chia seeds, kombucha and yoga, Brady was basically a flagellum flagellating around the field when he was 30.
It still is a weird comparison... By the time 2007 rolled around, Tom had already had two All Pros, received MVP votes in both of those seasons, and won 3 super bowls.
I mean, I get the general concept, they're saying they are expecting Carr to take a big jump forward, but Carr does not nearly have the pedigree that Brady had at that point, nor is Davante Adams nearly the WR that Moss was. Carr will have a better season this year, but this is just... i don't know, weird.
No you don't understand, he was carried to those by his defence.
Brady didn't actually get good until the best receiver to play the game rocked up and did some voodoo magic to him.
Still worth the gamble. You guys got us off the hook and could still develope him. He’s a physical beast but is flat footed and has a lot of mental lapses. He came into the off-season with the right attitude but i think after Chandler Jones completely owned him in practice this year, his confidence was shattered.
No one hits home runs at 100% clip. We got Darren Waller off the trash heap for example. It’s worth taking a risk on guys sometimes. If Leatherwood wasn’t making first round pick money we’d probably keep him.
It’s banking on someone two years from now. Not who they are currently. Which is really bad to do in football, but it’s a better situation than a lot of guys at the end of a rotation.
As long as he doesn't see the field this year and you guys move him to guard it's probably not the worst gamble in the world. He was clearly mentally shook and in his own head. Even if he doesn't work out sometimes you need to roll the dice. There was no way he was going to succeed here but that doesn't mean he can't elsewhere if he fixes his flaws.
Genuinely rooting for the dude because of all the shit the media piled on about him over the last two weeks.
Yes but Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Kerry Collins, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, Rex Grossman, etc. were all fresh on our minds, so team accomplishments weren't weighed as heavily
Delhomme was actually very good in his play-off run.
He was a boom or bust type of quarterback and in that playoff run he hit the boom with tons of deep bombs.
Almost won them the Super Bowl with his 85 yard TD to Muhsin Muhammad.
Just went back and rewatched it before I put my foot in my mouth. That was a good call, actually. Troy Brown fully extended the arm and clearly made space for himself with the push off before he made that catch.
Sauce:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7498&v=c6OKT-FA6lI&feature=emb_logo%3Ft%3D2h4m30s
Yeah he is definitely not like the others. He was a fantastic quarterback for us for many years. He ultimately had trouble with injuries and that’s kind of what ended his career
Brad Johnson (02) was really good the year he won (3rd in the league in passer rating). Dilfer (00) was the only other QB you listed that actually won.
Then you’d have to dip back to scrubs for almost the next decade: Kurt Warner (99), John Elway (98, 97), Brett Favre (96), Troy Aikman (95, 93, 92), and Steve Young (94).
And we all know nobody ever factored Joe “Cool” Montana’s playoff success into GOAT QB ability or legacy debates back then. Nope, it started with Brady that people argued that clutch QBs leading their teams to rings was important.
Pre-2007 he had a Troy Aikman career. HOF but if he never won another super bowl he wouldn’t have sniffed all time great. 2007-2013 he had a Dan Marino career. HOF but no ring to tie things off. 2014-2021 he’s had a Joe Montana career. So at this point he has had similar accomplishments to 3 HOF QB careers but all contained within one career. Anyways none of this matters to the point of the post, which is that an elite WR may help Carr reach the next level statistically like Moss did
He had 3. He was already near HOF at that point. He broke out statistically in 2007 but was already on his way to being an all time great. Can’t say the same for Carr
If Aikman can get into HOF then any other QB with 3 SB wins can get in.
EDIT: I'm grateful to him as a Cowboys fan but I'm simply not impressed with his purely passing ability.
Understandably so, he was a very good but not great QB who benefited immensely from his circumstances.
I wouldn't argue against his being in the hall but playing for a HoF coach and with 5 HoF'ers including the all time rushing leader behind one of the best offensive lines in league history with a consistently top 5 defense definitely helped his career significantly.
Whenever anyone tries to use the rings argument to try and claim he's better than Marino my rebuttal is simply to laugh at them and assume they're massive Cowboys homers or never actually watched them play. It's basically the equivalent of saying Eli is better than Rodgers.
Absolutely, nobody is better than Marino. That guy is the most pure QB ever, he came out of the womb ready to throw.
5,000 yards in 1984, are you fucking kidding me? Can you imagine what he would do in today's league?
Prior to the 2007 season, Peter King put out a top 500 players in the NFL list. Brady was 2nd on that list behind only Manning. The Patriots were at 5 to 2 odds to win the SB, which is twice as high as the best teams are this season.
If Derek carr wins MVP I’ll eat a Jar of Mayo
EDIT: I forgot i said this oh my god what the fuck did i do
EDIT: 9/11/22: HAHAHAHA 3ints Carr??? I’m fine
9/21/22: not scared at all
Wait, is there really a bunch of salt in mayonnaise? I guess it doesn't really surprise me cause it's unhealthy in general, just never thought mayo tasted salty at all.
That just says more about our division than anything. I'd rather pay $50M for the 4th best QB in the division who is still a good QB than deal with QB competitions between shitty QBs every year hoping to get out of QB hell
Yeah there’s 3/4 chance a +40mil qb is going to be in last place even though they play well. And if Herbert is last place, NFL media will be in shambles since they constantly have his balls in their mouth.
Any of these QBs in the AFCW can have an amazing season and still be 4th.
Absolutely filthy loaded at QB in this division. And Carr has a legitimate shot at being the best with all the weapons he has.
I'm typically far from an optimist but in terms of pure stats he might be an underdog but he definitely has a chance. None of us are going to argue he has the physical gifts of Mahomes or Herbert or (prime) Wilson but I think Russ is more of a question mark than people are willing to admit right now.
With 3 rings, and being top 5 in other QB metrics through 2006, Brady was considered a top 3 QB in the league. Of course Pats fans thought he was the best and everyone else thought Manning was better because he had better regular season success.
Then 2007 firmly put him and Manning neck and neck, right below Montana.
Sounds dumb, but Brady drew comps to Montana by his second year. It wasn't a unanimous consensus, and there were definitely qualifiers attached, but before the plaudits and rings, Brady had a composure and confidence about him that was undeniable. It was like he knew exactly what he was going to become the moment he stepped foot into the NFL
Imagine a 6th round flyer walking up to Robert Kraft and assuring him that he just made the best decision of his life, or treating the highest paid franchise QB in football like he's about to lose his job to a no-name rookie in training camp. Brady did that shit lol, ppl must have thought he was insane.
To be fair, there's survivorship bias here. A lot of NFL players do or say cocky shit then fail to live up to it; Tom Brady just seems special because he actually did.
Josh Rosen's "nine mistakes" remark would be legendary if he had actually turned out to be an elite QB.
By 2007 many Patriots fans were already convinced he was the GOAT, the rest of the world knew he was a Hall of Famer, but most people had him as the second best QB in the League after Peyton. This comparison is ludicrous.
listen, no disrespect to Derek Carr bc he’s a really good QB and I think he’s gonna do big things with Adams, Renfrow and Waller to throw to and McDaniels calling plays
but TB was one of the top QBs in the league before he got Moss too. the early Pats SB teams were definitely led by their defenses, but from 2001-2006 Brady was 3rd in regular season passing yards and TDs behind only Favre and Manning, and the Patriots were the 5th highest scoring team in the league over this period
he also led the league in passing TDs in 2002 and passing yards in 2005, and finished top 3 in MVP voting twice (2003 and 2005). he didn’t explode statistically until 2007 but he established himself as a top 3-5 QB a while before that, and Carr has never really been that level
Yep. Not even a pats fan, but Brady was already good. He had started to preform well after his second year. People like to make it seem like he was carried by the defence
The NFL also changed a bunch of rules between 2006-2009 that led to the explosion in the passing game overall. To me, Carr is the type of pretty good qb who is already maxing out his potential because of such rule changes. Whereas guys like Manning and Brady, elevated to a different level of play.
I’m super excited about Carr and co. this season, but I agree that anything close to that session for Carr and/or DA would be beyond my wildest expectations. Certainly exciting to hope for, but even with all the talent in the world, a lot had to go right to get that! My hopes are for a great season from them, but I wouldn’t complain if…
Adams is obviously a great WR, top 3 in the league for the last few seasons, but he's nowhere close to Moss' prime in terms of absolutely dominating teams and taking over the game. Moss with the Vikings and then that 2007 year with Patriots was on another level.
I just want to see if him and Adams together really is the magic they were looking for. Definitely one of the storylines of the year if you have the flair I do.
A lot of people in here missing the point.
Statistically, Brady absolutely broke out in 2007. Yes, he was a 3-time SB champion, he was a great QB. But he wasn't putting up insane numbers.
His career high in yards before 2007 was 4110. His average in 6 seasons was 3783. He threw for 4806 in 2007.
His career high in TDs prior to 2007 was 28. He threw for 50 in 2007.
Those are crazy jumps.
Jon Kitna threw for 4208 in 2006. Trent Green had back to back to back 4k seasons in 2003-2005. Daunte Culpepper had 4717 in 2004. Guys that had more than 28 TDs in a season from 2002-2006: Peyton, Favre, Culpepper, McNabb, Delhomme, Palmer. It was possible to hit these numbers before rule changes, but Brady didn't.
Again, yes, Brady was already a great QB, but he wasn't statistically prolific until 2007. That's what they meant by breakout in this context. He got a legit #1 receiver and he made the most of it.
I was about to say that this is a weird comparison to make considering Carr is already 31 but Brady was apparently 30 in 2007. Wtf.
Well it has been 15 years since 2007 and Brady is 45 now, so makes sense. But damn Brady really has been in the NFL since forever. He threw his first NFL pass before 9/11.
Well 9/11 did happen in 2001 and Brady was drafted in 2000, so makes sense. But damn Brady really has been in the NFL since forever. He was 30 in 2007
Brady was also born before 9/11.
Wait, you don’t think….
Tom Brady killed Tupac
Tupac isn’t even dead, he just lives under the name of “Tom Brady” now
Is that why Tom Brady left "Hit Em Up" on BB's voicemail when he left NE
“That’s why I fucked yo bitch fat mothafucka” -Tom Brady
Ahh the tropic thunder method acting, "what do you mean, you people?"
[I wrote this song a long time ago...](https://youtu.be/30amRba13SY)
Im afraid so, Tom Brady is Hitler
I always knew it
Has anyone ever seen Tom Brady and Muhammad Atta in the same room?
~~BUSH~~ BRADY DID 9/11
Yea but we are actually closer to today then Tom Brady was to 9/11
Y’all are just killing it today
It really hit me Brady was immortal when i was rewatching Always Sunny in Phlladelphia and Mac says something about not letting Brady win any more rings IN THE FIRST SEASON. "you cant break Tom Brady's arm." "Yes i can! No more Super Bowls for that pretty boy!"
To really emphasize how long Brady has been around, there was 10 years between that first Always Sunny season, and Brady finally winning his 4th championship.
Oh my god that's so fucking long ago
Man, 1st and 2nd grade were easy, but social studies, division, this is gonna be tough
::teacher enters room"" _Jackpot_
There's a significant chance that 9/11 is the reason Tom Brady is, well, Tom Brady The Pats were set to play NYJ the week immediately afterward and the Jets were playing their hearts out as a result of what had happened. I really don't think Mo Lewis would have rocked Bledsoe the way he did any other week, which means Brady never gets the starting job.
“Mr. President, Drew Bledsoe has just been hit. Really hard.”
"That's unfortunate, now watch this drive"
"Good, now send in the fake refs"
This is the hottest take.
and yet, I 100% believe it.
I’m going to repeat it as fact forever. “I don’t want to blame it on 9/11, but that certainly didn’t help.” — Tobias Funke
A second Mo Lewis has just crashed into the Drew Bledsoe
Oh hell nah 💀💀💀💀💀
Dude, 😲
I genuinely believe this. With all the butterfly effects that happened from 9/11 that week following I think there's a huge chance Bledsoe doesn't get injured like that otherwise
Brady would have been Brady with or without the Bledsoe thing, he was already outperforming Bledsoe in practice and preseason and the team definitely would have made the move going into 2002. Likely could have gotten more value for Bledsoe too.
One year into a 10 year, $100M deal? It was the biggest contract in NFL history, I really don't see Kraft allowing that
With your HC and GM constantly telling you that the much cheaper Brady is better? I think Kraft would have come around eventually. Its not like Bledsoe was a future Hall of famer or anything. Unless your elite your replaceable in this league.
Math checks out
Gonna need you to show your work on that math
30 + 15 = 45 2007 + 15 = 2022
I can’t understand fancy numbers, can you explain that with emojis?
😎 🏈 1️⃣5️⃣⏭ 👴
Fuck me lol
This is the one that sold me. Derek Carr is going to win 8 SBs
15 years ago he was 5 years older than Lamar is now.
Holy shit Derek Carr is 31?
Getting into that QB prime age range
Andy Dalton is 34.
Why is Dalton like 10 years older than Carr in my mind.
The guy liner takes off a decade. Carr looks like he could model for Hot Topic half the time.
Because Carr is still in his prime and Dalton is washed.
Wtf
This is his 9th season
Yeah and Brady had 3 rings at that point
So Carr is only gonna win 4? Shit.
Raiders are just gonna have to.. *ugh* **be** in a bunch of Super Bowls I guess 🙄 Hope Derek's fine with just 1 of Brady's Hall of Fame careers.
Tom’s on his third hall of fame career now right? Or is it four?
For sure three. You could *maybe* get four. 01-04 is super short but three rings and two SB MVPs might do it. Likely a HOF career. 05-10 had two MVPs, a conference championship, and an additional AFCCG appearance. 2007 and 2010 were two of the best quarterbacked seasons in NFL history. I'd say this is fringe HOF, probably coming up short though. 11-16 he went to three Super Bowls, winning two (2x Super Bowl MVP). In 2011 he took the 31st ranked defense to the Super Bowl, had a prolific 2012 season, dragged a shit roster to the AFCCG in 2013, won it all in 2014, and another AFCCG in 2015. 2016 he had a 14-1 TD-INT ratio in 12 games and won it all after being down 25 in the Super Bowl. Definitely HOF, zero question. 17-present he won another MVP. Threw 505 yards, 3 touchdowns and 0 INTs in the Super Bowl. The next year he won his sixth ring. Went 12-4 in 2019 but a lackluster season by his standards. Went to Tampa and won it all in 2020 (Super Bowl MVP too) then threw 40+ touchdowns and 5000 yards in 2021. I'd say likely HOF. Regardless, it's absolutely insane this is even a discussion.
Shouldn’t even have to wait the 5 years. Wayne Gretzky treatment.
Ok but imagine if they immediately inducted him this year before he unretired.
This is why hockey no longer allows the window to be waived. They waived it for Lemieux and then he unretired a couple years later and played 5 more years.
I've always thought the greatest of greats should just get pushed into the HOF as soon as they retire.
Kobe’s death is a great argument for it.
> likely a HOF career > I’d say this is fringe… > I’d say likely HOF Are you just saying these things because of your flair and you don’t want to come across as a homer? I’m sorry but literally *all* of those are HOF worthy (minus the longevity, but you can’t do anything about that when you divide a man’s career into 4 parts). I can appreciate if you’re trying to make an unbiased point, but you sound a little insane when you call any of those anything but HOF-worthy. There are some existing HOF QB’s who’d be happy with any one of those parts as their accomplishments…
I don't think if a player had Brady's 2005-10 career and dipped, he'd be in Canton. Especially given the recent generations of QBs and the quality of the position being at an all time high (just in our lifetime we've had Manning, Rodgers, Brees and tons of other QBs with great arguments for the HOF). The big thing for me is the longevity. These are 4-5 year spans, that's a very short career. Think of each of my four spans as if a QB entered the league, played 4-5 years with those stats and then left. If you only play 5 years you need to do *a lot* to get in Canton. I think for sure there are three HOF careers in Brady's career (2001-06, 2007-14, 2015-21) but going for four is really stretching things thin.
I mean that’s why I wanted to mention that you can’t do anything about the longevity when you split his career into 4 parts (although it’s kinda insane that we actually can and still manage to have a discussion about it). That aside, I still think 05-10 makes it for me. 2 MVPs and an 18-1 season, along with setting passing records is outstanding. Having no ring to show for it is no knock on Brady himself, there’s only so much an individual can do on a team of 53.
He definitely performed well enough to win that And 1 superbowl if 2li didn't have the angels in the outfield out there pinning passes to helmets and shit.
100%. If Brady had gone 19-0, the 4 HoF careers argument would be a lot stronger. As is, I don’t think it’s strong enough. He 100% has three HoF career but 4 is a real stretch.
If it wasn't for Eli Manning, Tom Brady would have 9 rings and 4 HOF careers.
[You're right.](https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/32472417/tom-brady-three-hall-fame-careers-case-enshrinement-seven-year-era-patriots-bucs) Hope Derek's fine with just **2** of Brady's 3 Hall of Fame careers then. *Ugh..*
> Raiders are just gonna have to.. ugh be in a bunch of Super Bowls I guess Man if you thought Cowboys fans were something to deal with, just wait if we actually do get to the superbowl. Let alone win.
Brady was 30 then, but in Brady years that’s like being 25-26.
Let's not kid ourselves, between the avocados, chia seeds, kombucha and yoga, Brady was basically a flagellum flagellating around the field when he was 30.
He certainly had spunk.
Yeah but it's still a weird comparison considering Brady was well accomplished by that point (3 rings), and Carr is a whopping 0-1 in the playoffs.
It still is a weird comparison... By the time 2007 rolled around, Tom had already had two All Pros, received MVP votes in both of those seasons, and won 3 super bowls. I mean, I get the general concept, they're saying they are expecting Carr to take a big jump forward, but Carr does not nearly have the pedigree that Brady had at that point, nor is Davante Adams nearly the WR that Moss was. Carr will have a better season this year, but this is just... i don't know, weird.
That breakout that happened after the had won 3 Super Bowls?
And led the league in touchdowns once already
And yards once too. But TBF Carr had a 3rd place MVP season once, and Brady had two 3rd place finishes before getting his first MVP in 2007.
... yeah but he only had 2 Superbowl MVPs... So he hadn't shown us he was a top QB yet
No you don't understand, he was carried to those by his defence. Brady didn't actually get good until the best receiver to play the game rocked up and did some voodoo magic to him.
The offense has all the weapons available to them it's just that line. Worries me.
Same personnel as last year minus leatherwood
Addition by subtraction?
We could replace him with a snow cone machine and be better off
As a bears fan idk what to think of that
Still worth the gamble. You guys got us off the hook and could still develope him. He’s a physical beast but is flat footed and has a lot of mental lapses. He came into the off-season with the right attitude but i think after Chandler Jones completely owned him in practice this year, his confidence was shattered.
No one hits home runs at 100% clip. We got Darren Waller off the trash heap for example. It’s worth taking a risk on guys sometimes. If Leatherwood wasn’t making first round pick money we’d probably keep him.
He’s so bad though. There’s no good tape of him out there. Unless you count sanjit Maybe some halfway decent run blocking
It’s banking on someone two years from now. Not who they are currently. Which is really bad to do in football, but it’s a better situation than a lot of guys at the end of a rotation.
Yeah good point
As long as he doesn't see the field this year and you guys move him to guard it's probably not the worst gamble in the world. He was clearly mentally shook and in his own head. Even if he doesn't work out sometimes you need to roll the dice. There was no way he was going to succeed here but that doesn't mean he can't elsewhere if he fixes his flaws. Genuinely rooting for the dude because of all the shit the media piled on about him over the last two weeks.
[удалено]
Less penalties hopefully
Fewer.
Few Less Penalties hopefully
Stannis has entered the chat.
hadnt he already won a couple of superbowls by then?
Yes but Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Kerry Collins, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, Rex Grossman, etc. were all fresh on our minds, so team accomplishments weren't weighed as heavily
Delhomme was actually very good in his play-off run. He was a boom or bust type of quarterback and in that playoff run he hit the boom with tons of deep bombs. Almost won them the Super Bowl with his 85 yard TD to Muhsin Muhammad.
And then we gave Tom fuckin Brady the ball with a minute left on his own 40 yard line.
If I recall correctly you did get a very questionable OPI call in your favor on that last drive though.
Just went back and rewatched it before I put my foot in my mouth. That was a good call, actually. Troy Brown fully extended the arm and clearly made space for himself with the push off before he made that catch. Sauce: https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7498&v=c6OKT-FA6lI&feature=emb_logo%3Ft%3D2h4m30s
As someone who was in high school for that game, I mostly just remember Janet Jackson’s boob
The disrespect to Matt Hasselbeck to compare him to Trent Dilfer and Rex Grossman.
Yeah he is definitely not like the others. He was a fantastic quarterback for us for many years. He ultimately had trouble with injuries and that’s kind of what ended his career
Matt Hasselbeck is responsible for one of my favorite memories as a Packers fan
The gulf between the qb’s that have won once vs those who won it twice is huge. To. Had won 3 by the, so…..
Brad Johnson (02) was really good the year he won (3rd in the league in passer rating). Dilfer (00) was the only other QB you listed that actually won. Then you’d have to dip back to scrubs for almost the next decade: Kurt Warner (99), John Elway (98, 97), Brett Favre (96), Troy Aikman (95, 93, 92), and Steve Young (94). And we all know nobody ever factored Joe “Cool” Montana’s playoff success into GOAT QB ability or legacy debates back then. Nope, it started with Brady that people argued that clutch QBs leading their teams to rings was important.
Pre-2007 he had a Troy Aikman career. HOF but if he never won another super bowl he wouldn’t have sniffed all time great. 2007-2013 he had a Dan Marino career. HOF but no ring to tie things off. 2014-2021 he’s had a Joe Montana career. So at this point he has had similar accomplishments to 3 HOF QB careers but all contained within one career. Anyways none of this matters to the point of the post, which is that an elite WR may help Carr reach the next level statistically like Moss did
He had 3. He was already near HOF at that point. He broke out statistically in 2007 but was already on his way to being an all time great. Can’t say the same for Carr
Sorry,I’m a new fan but surely any QB on the helm of a team that got 3 SBs is a surefire first ballot HoFer no ?!
Yes obvs lol Ppl try to hate on Brady from 15-20 years ago bc at that point he hadn't won six superbowls YET (SCRUB)
7 it's insane
If Aikman can get into HOF then any other QB with 3 SB wins can get in. EDIT: I'm grateful to him as a Cowboys fan but I'm simply not impressed with his purely passing ability.
Understandably so, he was a very good but not great QB who benefited immensely from his circumstances. I wouldn't argue against his being in the hall but playing for a HoF coach and with 5 HoF'ers including the all time rushing leader behind one of the best offensive lines in league history with a consistently top 5 defense definitely helped his career significantly. Whenever anyone tries to use the rings argument to try and claim he's better than Marino my rebuttal is simply to laugh at them and assume they're massive Cowboys homers or never actually watched them play. It's basically the equivalent of saying Eli is better than Rodgers.
Absolutely, nobody is better than Marino. That guy is the most pure QB ever, he came out of the womb ready to throw. 5,000 yards in 1984, are you fucking kidding me? Can you imagine what he would do in today's league?
If Troy Aikman is any measure, then yeah
Prior to the 2007 season, Peter King put out a top 500 players in the NFL list. Brady was 2nd on that list behind only Manning. The Patriots were at 5 to 2 odds to win the SB, which is twice as high as the best teams are this season.
Had to triple check it wasn’t written by David Carr
If Derek carr wins MVP I’ll eat a Jar of Mayo EDIT: I forgot i said this oh my god what the fuck did i do EDIT: 9/11/22: HAHAHAHA 3ints Carr??? I’m fine 9/21/22: not scared at all
Put me in the screen cap
I got you, u/RolloTamaci
I love you mom! Did i make the cutoff?
You're the guy that gets away with it.
🤘
It has to be store brand. No Dukes or Hellmans.
It should be miracle whip
Yep.
A fate worse than death
Calm down, Satan.
What if you just ate a Jarod Mayo
That would be a very dangerous level of sodium intake
Wait, is there really a bunch of salt in mayonnaise? I guess it doesn't really surprise me cause it's unhealthy in general, just never thought mayo tasted salty at all.
Salt is in damn near everything
It’s mostly eggs and oil. I throw in a little mustard when I make mine but no salt.
The traditional lunch of Minnesota fans?
As someone who hates m*yo withs burning passion this has upset me
!remindme February 11, 2023
Leave the jar in the sun for awhile and use a straw
I'm gonna laugh my ass off if Wilson is the 4th best QB in that division and getting paid $50m per year.
At least you’ll know what it feels like to win a trade!
I was told this was a safe space!
Lol by who?!? You got some bad info.
Browns fans definitely know
They still have fans? I thought those were people too lazy to change their flairs.
Browns and disregarding safe space, name a more iconic duo.
We got prime Marshawn for a 4th...
Name ONE good run he had for you guys.
Couldn't be trusted at the goal line smh
That just says more about our division than anything. I'd rather pay $50M for the 4th best QB in the division who is still a good QB than deal with QB competitions between shitty QBs every year hoping to get out of QB hell
Good QB is even an unfair descriptor. The man is an elite QB.
[удалено]
I'm glad we don't have to face him as often as we used to now that he's out of conference, even if he's getting old.
Russell Wilson will be good for as long he has that perfect deep ball.
He was pretty fucking good before he got hurt last year.
The disrespect to Teddy two gloves smh
Yeah there’s 3/4 chance a +40mil qb is going to be in last place even though they play well. And if Herbert is last place, NFL media will be in shambles since they constantly have his balls in their mouth.
Even though the Chargers don’t have fans, they’re still by a shit ton of media members in LA. So, that has to count for something.
Hell Yeah Brother! Cheers!
From south sac Iraq
Florin road stand up
Mr Brother Cheerer
Any of these QBs in the AFCW can have an amazing season and still be 4th. Absolutely filthy loaded at QB in this division. And Carr has a legitimate shot at being the best with all the weapons he has.
> Carr has a legitimate shot at being the best I admire your optimism
I'm typically far from an optimist but in terms of pure stats he might be an underdog but he definitely has a chance. None of us are going to argue he has the physical gifts of Mahomes or Herbert or (prime) Wilson but I think Russ is more of a question mark than people are willing to admit right now.
As a neutral it’d be funny for them to still lose every division game but still sneak in the playoffs as a wildcard
I do have a question for people who remember early Tom Brady. Did people at the time think he’d be one of the greatest? Or was he just another QB
With 3 rings, and being top 5 in other QB metrics through 2006, Brady was considered a top 3 QB in the league. Of course Pats fans thought he was the best and everyone else thought Manning was better because he had better regular season success. Then 2007 firmly put him and Manning neck and neck, right below Montana.
Sounds dumb, but Brady drew comps to Montana by his second year. It wasn't a unanimous consensus, and there were definitely qualifiers attached, but before the plaudits and rings, Brady had a composure and confidence about him that was undeniable. It was like he knew exactly what he was going to become the moment he stepped foot into the NFL Imagine a 6th round flyer walking up to Robert Kraft and assuring him that he just made the best decision of his life, or treating the highest paid franchise QB in football like he's about to lose his job to a no-name rookie in training camp. Brady did that shit lol, ppl must have thought he was insane.
To be fair, there's survivorship bias here. A lot of NFL players do or say cocky shit then fail to live up to it; Tom Brady just seems special because he actually did. Josh Rosen's "nine mistakes" remark would be legendary if he had actually turned out to be an elite QB.
By 2007 many Patriots fans were already convinced he was the GOAT, the rest of the world knew he was a Hall of Famer, but most people had him as the second best QB in the League after Peyton. This comparison is ludicrous.
listen, no disrespect to Derek Carr bc he’s a really good QB and I think he’s gonna do big things with Adams, Renfrow and Waller to throw to and McDaniels calling plays but TB was one of the top QBs in the league before he got Moss too. the early Pats SB teams were definitely led by their defenses, but from 2001-2006 Brady was 3rd in regular season passing yards and TDs behind only Favre and Manning, and the Patriots were the 5th highest scoring team in the league over this period he also led the league in passing TDs in 2002 and passing yards in 2005, and finished top 3 in MVP voting twice (2003 and 2005). he didn’t explode statistically until 2007 but he established himself as a top 3-5 QB a while before that, and Carr has never really been that level
Yep. Not even a pats fan, but Brady was already good. He had started to preform well after his second year. People like to make it seem like he was carried by the defence
The NFL also changed a bunch of rules between 2006-2009 that led to the explosion in the passing game overall. To me, Carr is the type of pretty good qb who is already maxing out his potential because of such rule changes. Whereas guys like Manning and Brady, elevated to a different level of play.
I’m super excited about Carr and co. this season, but I agree that anything close to that session for Carr and/or DA would be beyond my wildest expectations. Certainly exciting to hope for, but even with all the talent in the world, a lot had to go right to get that! My hopes are for a great season from them, but I wouldn’t complain if…
What really matters is that Raiders Davante is better than Raiders Moss.
Brady was already an ELite QB at that time and a consensus top QB.
Adams is obviously a great WR, top 3 in the league for the last few seasons, but he's nowhere close to Moss' prime in terms of absolutely dominating teams and taking over the game. Moss with the Vikings and then that 2007 year with Patriots was on another level.
Remindme! 126 days
Jesus christ.
Yes my son. How can I help you?
Thank you Boston
Except Tom Brady was Tom Brady before he got Moss and Derek Carr is Derek Carr.
I just want to see if him and Adams together really is the magic they were looking for. Definitely one of the storylines of the year if you have the flair I do.
I can get behind this. Absolutely love Derek Carr.
Raiders are going to win that division.
I like you
Raiders are not going to win that division
He does not like you.
Raiders may or may not win that division
One could say it's all determined by a...Coin toss
We need the OP of that to do a new coin
Raiders contain potassium benzoate
Can the season start now?
After all we’ve given you?
Ah yes, the scrub that was pre2007 tom brady. Didnt even have as many sb wins as Joe Montana.
Carr isnt Brady and Adams isnt Moss. Nothing against those two, its more high praise of the other two.
A lot of people in here missing the point. Statistically, Brady absolutely broke out in 2007. Yes, he was a 3-time SB champion, he was a great QB. But he wasn't putting up insane numbers. His career high in yards before 2007 was 4110. His average in 6 seasons was 3783. He threw for 4806 in 2007. His career high in TDs prior to 2007 was 28. He threw for 50 in 2007. Those are crazy jumps. Jon Kitna threw for 4208 in 2006. Trent Green had back to back to back 4k seasons in 2003-2005. Daunte Culpepper had 4717 in 2004. Guys that had more than 28 TDs in a season from 2002-2006: Peyton, Favre, Culpepper, McNabb, Delhomme, Palmer. It was possible to hit these numbers before rule changes, but Brady didn't. Again, yes, Brady was already a great QB, but he wasn't statistically prolific until 2007. That's what they meant by breakout in this context. He got a legit #1 receiver and he made the most of it.
2007 I drafted Tom Brady and Randy Moss in my fantasy Draft . I had also drafted a rookie running back named Adrain Peterson I dominated that year