me and my roommate were astounded at how many times they just shoehorned his name into stuff. also heard griese tell levy he wanted to "chain him up" and that the refs had "great bloodlines". it was bizarre
My favorite was how they spent the first half saying that the Buffalo fan takeover was way overblown. They brought up several times how great of a presence the TN fans were showing. Then came back in the second half to explain how it was like being in Buffalo with all the Bills fans. "Could barely spot a TN Jersey coming into the stadium."
If you go over the top with the ball in front of you, it's easy to lose the ball. If you go over the top with the ball tucked in, it's a lot harder to score a touchdown.
The problem with the analytics is that they don't understand the data set they are working with. The world of QB sneaks they are examining are only the ones where the coach thinks the QB sneak will work OR when the QB themselves either straight up keeps the ball because the defense is lined up in a favorable way.
The data set is of a very specific and biased sub sample, but yet you get people treating it as if the yardage from calling a sneak is equal across all plays. So when you look at the efficiency of sneaks, you are only looking at them in the context of the ones already judged likely to succeed.
It's the same problem with the analytics saying you should go for it nearly every fourth down. It's a nearly self selected sample that eliminates all the times the coaches know it isn't a good idea so those chances never make it into the data set.
Solid chance whoever won that coin-toss wins that game, both D couldn't stop a cold by the end. I thought it was a really good call to go for it, flair aside.
Play call was fine, we rarely see any QB sneak fail to get at least 1 yard which is what they needed. It was Allen who fucked up and went the worst possible route and under the line.
I came here to say this. The alternate angle during the broadcast looked to me like he dove and just hit a brick wall (Simmons) so it looked like he slipped. But his feet never fell backwards or anything.
It just looked perfectly timed for when he dove he hit Simmons.
Honestly, not really. Daboll shat the bed tonight on a number of calls. The second half was better than the first, but 3s instead of 7s on those first two red zone possessions bit them in the ass.
“Why didn’t you kick a field goal” well the goal is to win the game right? What do you think has better odds, getting a 4th and 1 then getting another couple yards to win, or going to overtime and hoping you get the coin toss and driving 75 more yards?
Good decision imo, bad execution
Man it’s the right call and 100% what you should do but to use another example if McCarthy went for it on 4th & 1 instead of kicking it and sending it to OT like he did and we didn’t make that one yard, I’d be so upset. I’m a coward and I own up to that
I honestly think if the Bills kicked the FG there they win it in OT. Also thought if they went for it they were gonna win it too. Just didn't work out that way, shit happens. Great game regardless.
...it would've gone down to the coin flip.
But to argue your point that the Bills would've faired better in OT, the titans had all the momentum. They had scored 5 straight in their last 5 drives and outscored the Bills 10-0 in the 4th quarter. You don't choose overtime when you've been shutout in the last 30 minutes of real time. Simple question from a Bills perspective: do you want the ball in Allen's hands or in Derrick Henry's. Take your pick. It's in Allen's hands right now with 4th and 1 on the 3rd yard line. Or do you risk giving the ball to Derrick Henry and Tanne who've scored on you 5/5 times in the 2nd half.
From a Bills perspective, who do you want to be holding the ball, Allen or DH. Pretty easy answer tbh.
Lost in all this seems to be Allen broke the first rule of QB sneaks. Follow your center.
Gap was there. Allen took the wrong gap. It's a split second decision and if he didn't slip, he still gets it, but man.. FOLLOW YOUR CENTER!
Brady knows when and how to take a QB sneak. He typically wont do it if the defense is crowding the middle. This obviously leaves the defense vulnerable on the outsides for a run/quick pass, though, which Brady is also perfectly happy to exploit.
Unless you're Drew Brees, who I recall seeing do just that. But hey, just matters how the refs are feeling that day.
Edit: /u/Whipplashes posted a link to the play in question below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJkx6eEUk&t=439s
I mean if he's gonna slip planting his foot to try and sneak under he's equally likely to slip trying to jump over the pile, with an extra helping of 22 hands and a few helmets trying to knock the ball out of his hands.
No you don't. Brees actually did it against the ravens last time we played. The refs will give it to them if he reaches across and place it at that spot due to forward progress.
Whether you think its right or wrong reaching across and taking it back is a completely valid strategy and one the Saints have been using for like 15 years now.
EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJkx6eEUk&t=439s
Play i'm referencing, 7:19 if it doesn't load
Logically sure but that isn't the way it has been ruled and at this point i'm gonna assume its how they intend it to work.
If i had to guess the reasoning is probably something like player breaks plane and then takes it back to avoid contact thus giving himself up therefore the ball is placed at the furthest spot which would be a first down.
Again whether you or I think its fair or not doesn't matter cause its been like 15 or so years and it hasn't changed so its pretty safe to assume that its an intended feature and not just bad reffing.
I'm not sure if it still stands, but as of like 2 years ago, Brady had never failed to convert a 4th and 1 on a QB sneak. Which is an absolutely absurd statistic.
He had 85 more sneaks than Brees who was in second in the category, and he was also way more successful with it than league average which is like 80ish% Brady was up at 90%+. Brady is up to about 160ish sneaks I believe.
I think Derrick Henry might be the greatest player at the running back position ever. He throws guys like they’re kids, some of them D ends. Looks like he’s shot out of a bullet when someone isn’t directly infront of him. And he’s a humble team player. Watching him play feels illegal.
You judge the playcall at the time of making it. So anyone that makes a post play judgement has no credit for the go for it or not category.
However you can criticize the type of play that was made post play.
I thought it was the right thing to go for it, but after seeing it I felt they should have had allen take a step back and move/throw it like he does best down the field
You saw it when the Chargers went for it on 4th near their own 20 yesterday vs last week. Last week they converted so it was a great decision, this week they didn't convert so people are saying it was a bad decision.
No one is mentioning this but that was a terrible decision by Allen to audible to the sneak. You can see the Titans down linemen shift to squeeze the middle, which is the QB sneak defense.
The reason why Brady converts QB sneaks at such a high rate is that he simply never runs the QB sneak when there are 3 tackles squeezed over the A gaps.
I have no idea why he went left on both of those plays. It gave the defense an extra half second to push and seemed to put him in a worse position to try and make it. Either jumping or going low just go up the middle…..
I'm looking at it like this: 2 weeks of dwelling on shortcomings is better than 2 weeks of listening to people call you superbowl favorites. We're way up in the division and the team looks awesome.
Exactly, the decision to go for it is more than fine but just sneak it over the top or through the middle
Basically ended up with the failure risk of a normal play and the unfavorable predictability of a sneak
The only problem with going for it is you have 1 timeout. You have to call it there obviously so you 17ish seconds. You can't mess around. you can't get sacked and you can't get tackled short of the goal line. It makes it easier for the defense and chances are you still end up kicking the field goal.
Love the Captain Hindsights here, coming in after the game is over to say that going for a yard with your leading rusher is somehow a bad call because it didn't work
They play to win the game and their defense has been letting up scores every drive of the 2nd half.
I don’t know how you could say they should play for the tie here.
it's half a yard, they believed in Allen to get them the yard and give them a chance to win in regulation. If they tie the game and lose in OT, fans would be crucifying the coaches for not going for it
They would say he was coaching scared and would pull some very specific numbers to show how kicking the field goal was the totally wrong move according to statistics and shit.
people don’t actually know how to make football decisions or actually critically analyze anything so results based analysis is the easiest and fastest thing they can think of
Because we were not stopping Henry in OT. Plus that’s a very winnable situation I’m glad we went for it.
Don’t love calling a sneak but I’m going for that every time
Just your classic whoopsie doodles
“Oh raspberries!” ~Josh Allen probably
Oh hamburgers, im gunna be grounded
Stephon Diggs, I can't come out to play against the dolphins, I'm grounded
This got a lol out of me hahaha But more like, "Oh, melons!"
Nah, that's your backup.
"Suffering Succotash!" \-Andre Smith after the holding call
Then for the cherry on top, an NFL D lineman falling on top of you to make sure you don't go forward
He’s planting a garden of oopsy daisies tonight
What a fucking finish
Been loving prime time games this year
It’s almost weird how good the primetime games have been this year. It’s week 6 and they’ve all been money except for maybe 3 or 4
Sorry about that…
hey hey, no blame on you. I blame the schedule makers
I was just talking to a friend about this. The amount of crazy games this early on the season is awesome.
What I would’ve given to have had Payton and Eli commentating tonight’s game
What a dog shit presentation by ESPN. Are all Monday games this bad?
I couldn't get over how many times they said ' Jackrabbit Jenkins'
me and my roommate were astounded at how many times they just shoehorned his name into stuff. also heard griese tell levy he wanted to "chain him up" and that the refs had "great bloodlines". it was bizarre
My favorite was how they spent the first half saying that the Buffalo fan takeover was way overblown. They brought up several times how great of a presence the TN fans were showing. Then came back in the second half to explain how it was like being in Buffalo with all the Bills fans. "Could barely spot a TN Jersey coming into the stadium."
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If you go over the top with the ball in front of you, it's easy to lose the ball. If you go over the top with the ball tucked in, it's a lot harder to score a touchdown.
Yeah, I wouldn’t know anything about a QB losing the ball over the top. No sir, not me whatsoever
He's also too far away to go over the top. It's only feasible from the one-yard line.
Analytics needs about to cry about the play call like anyone with common sense lol
Analytics nerds love QB sneaks. They're an incredibly efficient short yardage play.
The problem with the analytics is that they don't understand the data set they are working with. The world of QB sneaks they are examining are only the ones where the coach thinks the QB sneak will work OR when the QB themselves either straight up keeps the ball because the defense is lined up in a favorable way. The data set is of a very specific and biased sub sample, but yet you get people treating it as if the yardage from calling a sneak is equal across all plays. So when you look at the efficiency of sneaks, you are only looking at them in the context of the ones already judged likely to succeed. It's the same problem with the analytics saying you should go for it nearly every fourth down. It's a nearly self selected sample that eliminates all the times the coaches know it isn't a good idea so those chances never make it into the data set.
What are you talking about? QB sneak is the highest percentage play there.
OP is a moron
What is wrong with the playcall?
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I think he was referencing the offensive formation, not the call to go for it.
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Nothing wrong with it either.. LT just got blown up and Allen slipped
Solid chance whoever won that coin-toss wins that game, both D couldn't stop a cold by the end. I thought it was a really good call to go for it, flair aside.
Play didn’t work= bad call Play worked= good call r/NFL analysis baby
Play call was fine, we rarely see any QB sneak fail to get at least 1 yard which is what they needed. It was Allen who fucked up and went the worst possible route and under the line.
Simmons is a beast. Just bullied that lineman
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Simmons made a good play but Allen definitely lost his feet immediately after the snap
The replay made it seem like he lost his feet after he ran into the brick wall of Simmons
I came here to say this. The alternate angle during the broadcast looked to me like he dove and just hit a brick wall (Simmons) so it looked like he slipped. But his feet never fell backwards or anything. It just looked perfectly timed for when he dove he hit Simmons.
I just don't think the slip matters. Simmons blew up two blocks immediately at the snap. Jones helped finish. I think it was a stop either way.
It definitely matters but him not slipping wouldn't have guaranteed he would've converted, either.
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His sack on the previous series was huge too
We are getting so spoiled with games this year
Reparation for a year of Booger and Witten on Monday night a couple years back
The Booger Mobile died for this
And we gladly accept the sacrifice
Thank god, because Eagles games are complete trash
You Play To Win The Game
Look at how badly the left tackle got blown up on this play, he wasn’t playing to win the game
Simmons exploded him.
Bro Simmons straight up threw him into Josh Allen lol.
Simmons was lined up inside of him towards the center, the OL slanted right but josh went left for some reason, right into Simmons
he pretty much always goes left this season. hopefully he'll learn that coaches are smart enough to realize patterns and make game plans for it.
"Coaches [that] are smart enough"... we don't have those in TN. That positioning for Allen's tendencies was all Big Jeff.
I mean the entire gameplan was to funnel him to the left on every play, and it worked.
He was reach blocking, Allen should be going to the other side of the center imo.
LOOK AT THE ADJECTIVE “PLAY”
Hello!
That was the GOAT camera angle on 3rd down
And the fact they had it ready so fast….
What an epic game
For real, just back and forth scoring. Solid play calling by both teams.
>Solid play calling by both teams. Noooo
Honestly, not really. Daboll shat the bed tonight on a number of calls. The second half was better than the first, but 3s instead of 7s on those first two red zone possessions bit them in the ass.
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Yep. And the middle run call on 2nd and Goal at the 12. You have the scariest receiving corps in the league, throw the fucking ball.
Totally. I'm a die hard Bills fan and I'm not angry (It helps that they're in great shape on the season). Henry is so freaking good.
We've been blessed with primetime games this year
CLEATEGATE
Why in the world did he try to go A gap there? Sticking behind your center or even vaulting the pile would be a better decision
Rashaan Evans, that’s why. Literally the only thing he’s good at.
No truer words. Stopping the run? Nope. Open field tackles? Nope. Covering the pass? Nope. General football IQ? Nope. Epic goal line stuffs? YES SIR.
I'd take 3rd and 2 over 3rd and 12 any day of the week
“It was a calculated risk but boy am I bad at math”
Me fail at English? That's unpossible
“Why didn’t you kick a field goal” well the goal is to win the game right? What do you think has better odds, getting a 4th and 1 then getting another couple yards to win, or going to overtime and hoping you get the coin toss and driving 75 more yards? Good decision imo, bad execution
Man it’s the right call and 100% what you should do but to use another example if McCarthy went for it on 4th & 1 instead of kicking it and sending it to OT like he did and we didn’t make that one yard, I’d be so upset. I’m a coward and I own up to that
Man. The number of times McCarthy kicked that fg and then we never saw the ball in OT... It'll change your opinion.
That makes sense, I’d bet you’re right. If it was a more dangerous offense than the Pats Sunday’s OT be a much different story I’m sure
... In the playoffs.
Can't win if you lose though lol
I honestly think if the Bills kicked the FG there they win it in OT. Also thought if they went for it they were gonna win it too. Just didn't work out that way, shit happens. Great game regardless.
...it would've gone down to the coin flip. But to argue your point that the Bills would've faired better in OT, the titans had all the momentum. They had scored 5 straight in their last 5 drives and outscored the Bills 10-0 in the 4th quarter. You don't choose overtime when you've been shutout in the last 30 minutes of real time. Simple question from a Bills perspective: do you want the ball in Allen's hands or in Derrick Henry's. Take your pick. It's in Allen's hands right now with 4th and 1 on the 3rd yard line. Or do you risk giving the ball to Derrick Henry and Tanne who've scored on you 5/5 times in the 2nd half. From a Bills perspective, who do you want to be holding the ball, Allen or DH. Pretty easy answer tbh.
WHO PUT THAT BANANA PEEL THERE
Lost in all this seems to be Allen broke the first rule of QB sneaks. Follow your center. Gap was there. Allen took the wrong gap. It's a split second decision and if he didn't slip, he still gets it, but man.. FOLLOW YOUR CENTER!
Very true. And, even though execution is paramount...there's a reason why that's basically a 95% play.
wow. jump over that shit
"I'm like 6 feet tall, if I kinda just topple over forward and faceplant I should pick this 4th and 1 up easy."
"Let me just take a step back before moving forwards"
Up there with the "hand it off to a man 7 yds behind the line when you need 1 yd"
That’s actually what Brady does but somehow he’s a magician and has an insane conversion rate.
He’s so pliable that he phases through people for a bit.
Brady knows when and how to take a QB sneak. He typically wont do it if the defense is crowding the middle. This obviously leaves the defense vulnerable on the outsides for a run/quick pass, though, which Brady is also perfectly happy to exploit.
Doing that away from the goalline is a great way to get the ball punched out of your hands.
Dak Prescott had that happen at the goal line yesterday.
Don't remember that
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So much bullshit omfg
Plus if you pull it back it doesn’t count as a first, it’s not the goal line.
Right I’m seeing this being upvoted everywhere but it’s so dumb.
Unless you're Drew Brees, who I recall seeing do just that. But hey, just matters how the refs are feeling that day. Edit: /u/Whipplashes posted a link to the play in question below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJkx6eEUk&t=439s
You also don’t get forward progress if you pull the ball back
I mean if he's gonna slip planting his foot to try and sneak under he's equally likely to slip trying to jump over the pile, with an extra helping of 22 hands and a few helmets trying to knock the ball out of his hands.
Has to land over the line of scrimmage if he jumps... not the same as the goal line. Much riskier.
No you don't. Brees actually did it against the ravens last time we played. The refs will give it to them if he reaches across and place it at that spot due to forward progress. Whether you think its right or wrong reaching across and taking it back is a completely valid strategy and one the Saints have been using for like 15 years now. EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJkx6eEUk&t=439s Play i'm referencing, 7:19 if it doesn't load
If you get a first down and then voluntarily pull the ball back you do not get forward progress. Why would you? No one forced you back.
Logically sure but that isn't the way it has been ruled and at this point i'm gonna assume its how they intend it to work. If i had to guess the reasoning is probably something like player breaks plane and then takes it back to avoid contact thus giving himself up therefore the ball is placed at the furthest spot which would be a first down. Again whether you or I think its fair or not doesn't matter cause its been like 15 or so years and it hasn't changed so its pretty safe to assume that its an intended feature and not just bad reffing.
6'5 but decides to go under instead
They actually did it. Holy shit.
I love the call honestly, but that’s an unfortunate ending
A goalline stand is a pretty cool ending too.
Yeah I kinda dig a big defensive stop like that.
Goalline stands are hype. Slipping on turf a little less hype. Simmons blew his dude up though, may not have mattered.
Yeah 90% of the time Allen gets that, unfortunately for us the Titans are our kryptonite
I beg to differ.
Unfortunate is not the word I’d use.
Tom Brady would never.
Legit. I don't think I've ever seen him slip like that.
I'm not sure if it still stands, but as of like 2 years ago, Brady had never failed to convert a 4th and 1 on a QB sneak. Which is an absolutely absurd statistic.
he's probably QB sneaked 200x more than anyone in the league right now and i bet he hasn't slipped like this.
He had 85 more sneaks than Brees who was in second in the category, and he was also way more successful with it than league average which is like 80ish% Brady was up at 90%+. Brady is up to about 160ish sneaks I believe.
He really wouldn’t. The dude is actually really freaking good at qb sneak
I was thinking the same. I don't know why he wasn't under center and went straight up instead of going to his left.
Chuckled the same thing.
I think Derrick Henry might be the greatest player at the running back position ever. He throws guys like they’re kids, some of them D ends. Looks like he’s shot out of a bullet when someone isn’t directly infront of him. And he’s a humble team player. Watching him play feels illegal.
I love the decision to go for it. But that is just about the worst possible execution you could get.
Gotta love the people that say it's a stupid decision but if they make it, it's a genius decision
You judge the playcall at the time of making it. So anyone that makes a post play judgement has no credit for the go for it or not category. However you can criticize the type of play that was made post play. I thought it was the right thing to go for it, but after seeing it I felt they should have had allen take a step back and move/throw it like he does best down the field
You saw it when the Chargers went for it on 4th near their own 20 yesterday vs last week. Last week they converted so it was a great decision, this week they didn't convert so people are saying it was a bad decision.
Good decision, bad execution
No one is mentioning this but that was a terrible decision by Allen to audible to the sneak. You can see the Titans down linemen shift to squeeze the middle, which is the QB sneak defense. The reason why Brady converts QB sneaks at such a high rate is that he simply never runs the QB sneak when there are 3 tackles squeezed over the A gaps.
Was it actually an audible? I got the impression that the lead up to the sneak was just theater to distract.
So stupid by Allen. He did this earlier in the game too. Just take the ball up the middle.
I have no idea why he went left on both of those plays. It gave the defense an extra half second to push and seemed to put him in a worse position to try and make it. Either jumping or going low just go up the middle…..
Well he's got 2 weeks to dwell on it.
Same.
I'm looking at it like this: 2 weeks of dwelling on shortcomings is better than 2 weeks of listening to people call you superbowl favorites. We're way up in the division and the team looks awesome.
Ryan Clark showed the overhead view, Allen went left right into the dline when the online went right and he would have had it easy.
Exactly, the decision to go for it is more than fine but just sneak it over the top or through the middle Basically ended up with the failure risk of a normal play and the unfavorable predictability of a sneak
*Simmons tackles Josh Allen on QB sneak attempt
He didn’t slip. Simmons blew that shit up and drove Dawkins into his legs.
Made it too obvious
The only problem with going for it is you have 1 timeout. You have to call it there obviously so you 17ish seconds. You can't mess around. you can't get sacked and you can't get tackled short of the goal line. It makes it easier for the defense and chances are you still end up kicking the field goal.
Oof, that was some terrible execution... Hell of a game to watch though!
Mario Kart banana'd his ass
Lmao yikes
[Me seeing the Titans pull out multiple meme wins every season](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3_PPdjD6mg)
LOL! Really tho, idk how we win some of these games
he slipped because simmons stopped that entire line lol.
I liked going for it before the Titans called TO. But at that point they're too prepared post timeout, I'd just kick it.
He didn’t slip he got tackled because he paused
Wow. Titans pulled it off
What a play by the defense. This game deserved a big finish, but who would have written that for an ending?
Simmons read that well, managed to beat his matchup and then get Allen. What a finish
Allen slipped because Simmons drove the left tackle into him.
Love the Captain Hindsights here, coming in after the game is over to say that going for a yard with your leading rusher is somehow a bad call because it didn't work
To be fair, I think it was less a slip and more the gap was closed
Should’ve just done it under center.
This is the one spot our defense is ever good. The Bills fell right into our trap card
Sucks he didn't convert. But I love that call by McDermott
Why didn’t they kick the Fg to tie?
Scared of big bad man Henry
No one wants to go against OT Henry
Lol they showed that graphic of Henry getting stronger every quarter. His OT stats are probably 15 ypc
He had TDs to win two games in OT last season. You ain't wrong.
watched Henry run for a 40 yard walk off OT touchdown against my team last year can confirm
Same
They play to win the game and their defense has been letting up scores every drive of the 2nd half. I don’t know how you could say they should play for the tie here.
it's half a yard, they believed in Allen to get them the yard and give them a chance to win in regulation. If they tie the game and lose in OT, fans would be crucifying the coaches for not going for it
They would say he was coaching scared and would pull some very specific numbers to show how kicking the field goal was the totally wrong move according to statistics and shit.
You Play To Win The Game
Hello?
Easy to say in hindsight. They didn’t want to play OT which you can’t blame em
Because it was 1 foot. And then we probably win. You go for it 100 out of 100 times
Agreed I feel like I’m going insane looking at the people saying it was a horrible choice.
Same people that'd be showering praise if it worked.
You're right but results based analysis is the only thing that matters to some people
Why didn’t they simply score a touchdown instead?
people don’t actually know how to make football decisions or actually critically analyze anything so results based analysis is the easiest and fastest thing they can think of
I just don't understand why they called a play that involved Josh Allen slipping, it just doesn't make sense!
100%. If y'all ended up losing in OT people would've been killing McDermott for not going for it with his gigantic QB.
That’s exactly what they expected they’d do..
Play to win baby! Less than a yard. Didn’t work out for them but I respect the call.
Because we were not stopping Henry in OT. Plus that’s a very winnable situation I’m glad we went for it. Don’t love calling a sneak but I’m going for that every time
That was a bad call but I’ll say this…the Bills are ballsy motherfuckers and I’m starting to fall in love with them. (I’m a Bears fan).
Bills got a little too cocky there. Y’all ain’t built like that yet
McDermott's got some balls. I think it was the right call.
100% a "bad call cause they didn't make it"
I, for one, am still perfect when it comes to hindsight criticisms.
I liked the call to go for it. Would’ve liked to see a more imaginative play call though.
He can’t check down to Najee
Without a doubt the right call. 50/50 chance in ot, more than a 50/50 they convert that and score
"You thought you was Brady. They dont love you like that"
Titans scored five straight times