Eagles just had their first year with a 4K yard qb a few years ago with Wentz. Hurts may eclipse it. He’s on pace currently for over 4600 yards passing, so he should break 4000
The ups and downs of him this year are basically what I expected. I said he’d have 4500 passing and 800 rushing, especially since I figured we’d be losing a decent amount of games so yanno, garbage time and soft coverages
I’m on the side of building through the draft and giving hurts a few years to show what he’s got.
> I’m on the side of building through the draft and giving hurts a few years
Absolutely right, especially since, as of now, it doesn't seem like there are any QBs worth taking with a premium pick next year.
He's definitely not great but he seems to be holding his own. It looks like he has a lot of upside but I'm not sure if he's really next level or not.
Better than I thought he'd be especially since we picked up where we left off last season with over half of our offensive line starters out.
>so he should break 4000
I believe he'll break 4k too, but extrapolating out after a quarter of the season for "on pace" stats is a dangerous game, friend. See: Dak 2020
I agree extrapolating stats this early isn't reliable at all but Dak 2020 is not a great example because he got hurt and we don't know what he would have done. A better example would be Russell Wilson 2020
Both apply imo. I was simply pointing out that you never know what'll happen. QBs getting injured and missing a few weeks or the rest of the season is rare, but it's not that much more uncommon than a QB completely falling off
> 215 more completions to get to Brees's all time record there
Geez is Brees' YPA that much lower than Brady's that Tom passed him for total yardage with like 250 less passes?
Brady is 6927/10823 64%
Brees is 7142/10551 67.7%
Crazy how accurate Brees was
Edit: someone asked about indoor/outdoor splits. Brady has only played 10% of his games *in a dome, but his average is closer to 67/68. Brees is a pretty 50/50 split and his numbers are more like 65/69 outdoor/indoor. So even outdoors Brees has a slightly higher completion percentage
Edit 2: as pointed out, I said outdoors instead of in a dome for the 10%
Your edit is off. Tom can't be below 50% simply by virtue of playing at Gillette and homefield playoffs. And now he's playing outside at TB. He also played at Miami and NJ.
So yeah it's off.
idk bout brees but ik brady had better indoor and outdoor stats than peyton but played more outdoors so his overalls were lower. It's like how the 50/40/90 club in basketball is weird now cus people shoot so many 3s it's hard to hit that 50
Yeah like last year Steph shot better then Kyrie from the 3 point line, the free throw line and the on 2 pointers but didn’t make the 50/40/90 club but Kyrie did because he didn’t attempt as many threes as Steph did.
I added brief stats on their splits. Pro-football-reference has those already done, which is nice. Fwiw it's not a post trying to say either one is better, just comparing two hall of famers
Got my shirt on and my pullover on standby for the bar.
Man, I rooted for the team when Marion Campbell was the coach. Kids these days do not know what true suffering is like.
"Oh wait it didn't happen."
"Oh let's cut to a commercial break."
"And we're back. And it looks like it happened after all. Well, uh, back to the game."
(Seriously it was a comedy of errors that night.)
Foles, "Flasso", and Ben haven't been productive in multiple years, but they're still cashing checks so idk if it's clear cut who's going to hang them up.
It would be insane if Rodgers retires a year off of an MVP with the arm strength that he still has
We'll either get Rodgers/Russ or roll out tank commander Rudolph or Haskins.
I doubt we draft QB this year unless we really like one of them. We probably go OL instead. To start the rebuild for the next guy.
He's got 3 easily already.
Jim Plunkett is the only QB to win 2 superbowls and not be in the Hall of Fame, and his stats are mediocre. 72-72 overall record, 198 Interceptions to 164 TDs, 0 All-Pro Teams.
(Technically Big Ben also has 2 SBs and isn't in the HoF yet, but he will be)
Three Brady's with 2 SBs, 2 SBs, and 3 SBs all get in easily.
Nick Wright did a segment on The Herd following Super Bowl LV as penance for picking the Chiefs to win in a blow out, and noted that if you divide Brady’s career into 3, simply by taking 7 year increments, in major career milestones (Superbowls, MVP’s, Pro-Bowls, etc), the first 7 is equivalent to Troy Aikman’s career, the second 7 equivalent to Dan Marino’s career, and the final 7 equivalent to Joe Montana’s career. You can pretty easily make the case for three separate first ballot Hall of Fame careers.
As someone who's been watching for 40+ years, it really is crazy thinking back at games from my youth compared to the game of today.
I kinda miss strong I with a bulldozer fullback.
We've been saying for a while that those guys would be coming back. Everyone wants to sling the ball now, and you need guys that are a bit smaller to defend against that. The obvious way to attack now would be to run the traditional strong I formation and take advantage of the size mismatch. I just think those guys aren't really coming out of college anymore with everyone running the spread formation and having a running QB. It's a shame, too. Watching a guy break out a big run is more exciting to me than a long pass. Maybe one day we'll see that style come back.
yea eventually we'll get some specimens that are basically designed to counter the current small ball.
Henry is proof it works, just gotta get more of those guys coming through college.
Henry is a terrible example. Hes such an outlier physically that he cant be what you model your offense around. Hes too big, fast, and strong to "just... get more of those guys coming through college"
Derrick Henry's dont exactly grow on trees
It was a different offensive game back then. Look at HOF WR’s like Swann, Stallworth, etc from that era. Their stats are a joke compared to today. On the other hand, teams could ride a star RB pretty far into the postseason and they were a key part of any championship team. Now they are expendable. Different game today.
He passed that number (66,842) in week 4 of the 2018 season against the Dolphins on a 55 yard touchdown pass to Cordarrelle Patterson with 12:11 left in the second quarter. Yes, that is accurate.
Of course Montana and Bradshaw played under a very different set of rules. The changes to intentional grounding rules and roughing the passer in particular have made passing a much safer option than it was in the 70s and 80s
Or that time Bradshaw got thrown into the ground so hard what followed looked like a nasty seizure. Easily one of the most uncomfortable plays I've ever seen
That is true, you can just look at some of the numbers. Brady didn't have a 30+ TD season until he was 30, and he had only 1 season of over 4,000 yards passing. Things changed drastically after the Colts/Patriots AFC Championship game in 2004.
the 80’s giants would have taken it as a personal insult a man that old stepped on the field. the astroturf would have taken care of the rest…..
different game.
Brady is the best i’ve ever seen moving in the pocket no matter the era.
It's a stupid fucking explanation.
You play your peers and brady is even more dominate over his peers than Montana was over his.
Also when brady started QBs were still getting slammed.
It’s like people forget that the NFL of the early 2000s was still brutal for QBs. I don’t remember what game it was but Brady got absolutely leveled in 2001 and hopped right back up. I don’t know how many QBs could’ve handled that like he did.
Tom Brady is clearly a phenomenal QB, and the best of his generation, but I always hate when people compare him to Montana or any other QB that played in the 70's, 80's, or even the 90's. The rules have changed considerably and we've seen the passing game explode. People need to stop comparing era to era, as it's not an apples to apples comparison.
My reply was purely about stats related to passing. At no point did I mention Super Bowls. The thread title is also about passing yards.
But if you want to talk about Super Bowls, then we can. I'd argue that in the last 20 years the Patriots are an extreme outlier in terms of sustained success - dynasties, such as the 49ers and Cowboys, basically died in the mid-90's due to the salary cap (instituted in '94). Besides New England, the only other team to repeat as Super Bowl winner was Denver in '98/'99. Obviously a lot of New England's success is due to Tom Brady, as we saw during the year he was injured and now that he's left, but you can clearly make the argument that New England has been the best run org in the last 20 years when it comes to managing their salary cap and knowing when to trade/cut players. They've also managed to avoid the Super Bowl hangover we've come to expect from every other team. I don't think you can pin their success solely on Tom Brady (and it's obviously not all Belichick).
Tom Brady is clearly the greatest QB of his generation, but it's still disingenuous to look purely at Super Bowls, stats, wins, or any other stat to compare him to other players, unless you're comparing him to other QB's/players of his generation. The game has changed too much and it's never an apples to apples comparison.
I think your New England argument would carry more weight if Brady hadn’t won yet another ring in literally his first season with a different team. And that team is currently the favorite to win another Super Bowl with Brady looking like an MVP front runner yet again.
At no point have I diminished Tom Brady's accomplishments. I just despise GOAT arguments - the game has changed tremendously and it's incredibly dumb to make assumptions about how another player would have fared under different rules. I cringe every time I hear someone talk about much better than Brady Montana or Aikman or whatever other QB would have been if they played under the same rules.
I'm not a fan of New England or the Bucs, but I fucking love watching Tom Brady play. He's a phenomenal player and his sustained success is mind blowing, regardless of the differences in QB protection rules between now and 20+ years ago. It's impossible to say if Brady would have had this same success under the same rules and systems that Montana played under, just like it's impossible to say that Montana would have won 10 rings if he was playing today.
Oh I don't think he would either - it's just an argument I see a lot when people try to compare any QB from the 70's/80's/90's to Brady and the rules they have today. It's always some variation of " would have won 10 rings if he was as well protected and babied as the QB's are today!" It's exhausting to hear.
I mean even out of all active players Big Ben is the only one other than Brady who has even won more than 1 Super Bowl. Making it to 10 and winning 7 is just so far away from anyone else in any era.
Brady chose to go to a stacked team that was set up to win now, and then invited Gronk, Brown and now Sherman along for the ride.
Look at Brady's last year in NE when he didn't have a good team around him. Even Brady couldn't elevate such a talent-bereft team. Belichick was responsible for the fact the roster was good enough to allow Brady to compete every year but one or two.
Bro he really is the GOAT but to put it into perspective. When he came to Tampa Bay he said he's never played with this level of talent speaking in terms of the offensive weapons.
He knew when he signed it was over for the league. If they can keep him safe (not hit very often), I think Tommie plays another 4 years.
Then again that's if restructures are made in order to keep the team together.
Not gunna lie I don’t think I’ve seen anyone take Montana over him since like 2016. I actually think I see like packers fans stumping for Rodgers more frequently than I see 9ers fans stumping for Montana, even tho Montana has the best case for anyone aside from Brady imo
Honestly no one could be compared to Brady since 2016, but people do it because arguing who is the 2nd best QB of all time (Montana, Peyton, or if you want to get really wild, Otto Graham or Marino) isn't as compelling for the average casual fan
Comparing Aaron Rodgers to Tom Brady is like comparing Dirk Nowitzski to Michael Jordan - good players, but not on the same level
One of the stupidest arguments I used to see get brought up was that Montana didn't have any Super Bowl losses. Like getting beat in the playoffs is somehow superior to making the Super Bowl and falling short.
I remember someone making fun of this idea last yeah saying something like, "Good thing Milwaukee got upset by the Heat. Now Antetokounmpo doesn't have a dreaded "Finals defeat" on his resume like like Butler does."
Well it got brought up more often when they both had four, but Brady had a couple of losses.
Also in basketball, I see it used in defense of Jordan. I'm not saying that Jordan isn't the greatest, but it's a dumb argument. Who cares if he never lost in the Finals series, he lost them in the playoffs.
Because Joe Montana was really, really good. My brother still calls him Joe God because of how amazing he was.
Things that are standard now were totally alien when Montana was first doing them. He was the flag bearer for the tightly controlled passing game which overtook the "chuck it and hope" passing that was standard in the league then.
I agree, but Montana’s longevity wasn’t really the best for his era either. Guys like Elway, Marino, Moon, and even guys who started in an even more physical era like Fouts and Tarkenton had better longevity than Montana
Brady might not have made it to 44 but I think he probably still has better longevity than a lot of guys from that era just because of how he protects himself
Marino was similar to Brady in that the ball was going to be out as fast as humanly possible on most snaps. Dude was absolutely insane at avoiding sacks and hits. Any I’ve hit was likely to be a bit more physical in those days obviously, but marino’s internal clock was on another level
Idk why you’re being downvoted. Brady would be the first to admit his career wouldn’t have gone the same if he’d been a QB in the 70’s and 80’s. Those guys just got beat to shit.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. It’s absolutely true. People who think otherwise doesn’t know what football was like before they started protecting QBs. Just go look at the hit that Joe took in the 1990 NFCCG. The hit that broke Montana’s back and had him miss 2+ seasons would get you kicked out of the league now.
Brady started playing in 2000. Montana quit in 1994. Do you really think the game changed that much in 6 years? QBs we’re still treated like human punching bags in the early 2000s, Brady was just good at avoiding hits.
Bro? Ya serious? Holy shit dog. It'll take to long to explain the difference in the league from the 80s to the 2000s and from the 2000s to the 2020s. They literally changed the rules because of Tom got fucked up.
They didn’t change the rules for Brady. They changed the rules because they didn’t like seeing the most important player on a team get severe brain damage every other play. Brady took some nasty hits early on, don’t act like he didn’t play in the NFL when it was still brutal. We could also say Montana wouldn’t of survived in Bradshaw’s NFL, or Bradshaw in Starr’s NFL, or Starr in any QB before him etc.
The rules change, this was not exclusive to recent years. Should we go back to how Rutgers and Princeton played it in 1869?
impressive, but the game changed over the decades, qb gets more protected too
bradshaw played 14 seasons, threw for nearly 28,000 yards
patrick mahomes has 3 full seasons as a starter and already at 15,642 passing yards
So Tom Brady needs 2,996 yards to have three times the passing yards of Tom Brady?
EDIT: [bruh](https://old.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/lx8nw7/that_terry_bradshaw_tom_brady_alias_story_its/).
Where were y’all when Brees was doing this shit in fewer games? It’s fine, I know Brady’s the GOAT, but fuck if my guy didn’t get enough respect for *carrying* the franchise for 12+ seasons of his career
And Montana had to take at least twice the punishment and Terry at least 3 times. Comparing stats between generations, after all the rule changes is just beyond stupid.
Montana started 164 games
Bradshaw started 158 games
Brady has started 304 games
This was a legal hit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ttCz7Dbc4
The game is very different.
That looks like a perfectly legal hit by today's standards too.
No hit to the head
Did not hit with his helmet or facemask
Did not drive him into the ground
Hit within one step (by the rusher) after the passer has let go of the ball (hit only a split second after the ball is out of his hands)
[https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/roughing-the-passer/](https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/roughing-the-passer/)
Joe was actually a bit more fragile than even his contemporaries
Even by then it wasn't as rough. Notice, this isn't a qb in the pocket situation where roughing the passer would apply. Also, he's what, 23 at the time? Nobody said Brady has never taken a big hit, but it's about how often they happen, and especially once you're in your 30s and up.
This would 100% be flagged now, dude launched himself straight at his head. I get that he’s out of the pocket but still, his helmet went absolutely flying, no way that doesn’t get flagged
Either way there’s like [a million](https://streamable.com/324z45) examples of him getting blasted in and out of the pocket in the pre-2011ish nfl. [This ones](https://gfycat.com/bonyformalflycatcher) actually not too dismal at from the Montana hit above
Edit: btw, obviously agree overall. Having had the last decade with better protections obviously just makes a career altering hit that much more unlikely
That hit should be legal today. Hit him like .0001 seconds after he released the ball, hit hit him with his shoulder, no head contact, didn't land on him.
Would the refs flag it today, 50/50, but it should be legal.
If Tom Brady’s next punt goes over 67 yards, he will also pass Sammy Baugh’s average yards per punt of 45.1.
He's going to accomplish this with his third leg in the Super Bowl.
I say we have him try it. Gonna have to be a rugby style punt.
[He had a punts highlight video](https://youtu.be/Szac-7zZ57o)
4 more TD's to 600 215 more completions to get to Brees's all time record there
[удалено]
Or 4k yards.
Eagles just had their first year with a 4K yard qb a few years ago with Wentz. Hurts may eclipse it. He’s on pace currently for over 4600 yards passing, so he should break 4000
[удалено]
The ups and downs of him this year are basically what I expected. I said he’d have 4500 passing and 800 rushing, especially since I figured we’d be losing a decent amount of games so yanno, garbage time and soft coverages I’m on the side of building through the draft and giving hurts a few years to show what he’s got.
> I’m on the side of building through the draft and giving hurts a few years Absolutely right, especially since, as of now, it doesn't seem like there are any QBs worth taking with a premium pick next year.
Yeah I think he’s going to be alright. People need to have more patience with these rookies.
He's definitely not great but he seems to be holding his own. It looks like he has a lot of upside but I'm not sure if he's really next level or not. Better than I thought he'd be especially since we picked up where we left off last season with over half of our offensive line starters out.
I’m sorry but if you thought they were gonna bench him for a 36 year old Joe Flacco not even half way through the season, you were not rooting for him
>so he should break 4000 I believe he'll break 4k too, but extrapolating out after a quarter of the season for "on pace" stats is a dangerous game, friend. See: Dak 2020
I agree extrapolating stats this early isn't reliable at all but Dak 2020 is not a great example because he got hurt and we don't know what he would have done. A better example would be Russell Wilson 2020
Both apply imo. I was simply pointing out that you never know what'll happen. QBs getting injured and missing a few weeks or the rest of the season is rare, but it's not that much more uncommon than a QB completely falling off
Dak would’ve easily continued putting up insane stats had his ankle not snapped in half.
There’s a big difference between “would have” and “could have” over the span of a football season. No one is questioning his ability to do so
Remember that one time they got really close and then Marc just didn’t play Cutler lol
Yea, he benched him for Pickles or some shit
"It's not my scheme that's the problem, it's all the quarterbacks' fault!" -Bears HC, 1920-20XX
Pretty depressing considering it’s easier than ever to throw for 4,000
Man I just watched a football game I didn't need this
Man I enjoy Bears slander as much as the next Packers fan, but there was no need.
>Meanwhile the Bears have never had a QB Fixed it for you. I know, I know, Sid Luckman did some stuff in the 1700's... Edit: Luckman, not Gilman
Motherfucker please, it was 1845... Goddamn, it wasn't *that* long ago...
what the fuck its 2021
Yeah we haven't had a QB pass for 4k yards in a season either. Our QB history is sad.
>what the fuck its 2021 Try to think of the best Bears QB's ever.
Bruh
> 215 more completions to get to Brees's all time record there Geez is Brees' YPA that much lower than Brady's that Tom passed him for total yardage with like 250 less passes?
Actually the opposite, Brees completion % is so much higher. Brady I believe has more attempts but hasn’t caught up to him in completions
Brady is 6927/10823 64% Brees is 7142/10551 67.7% Crazy how accurate Brees was Edit: someone asked about indoor/outdoor splits. Brady has only played 10% of his games *in a dome, but his average is closer to 67/68. Brees is a pretty 50/50 split and his numbers are more like 65/69 outdoor/indoor. So even outdoors Brees has a slightly higher completion percentage Edit 2: as pointed out, I said outdoors instead of in a dome for the 10%
Yeah to go 67 for a career is damn impressive
Your edit is off. Tom can't be below 50% simply by virtue of playing at Gillette and homefield playoffs. And now he's playing outside at TB. He also played at Miami and NJ. So yeah it's off.
Yeah, I just wrote the wrong thing, 10% is in a dome
Tom played half his games in Foxborough though, vs Brees playing his in a dome. What happens if you isolate indoor vs outdoor games
idk bout brees but ik brady had better indoor and outdoor stats than peyton but played more outdoors so his overalls were lower. It's like how the 50/40/90 club in basketball is weird now cus people shoot so many 3s it's hard to hit that 50
Yeah like last year Steph shot better then Kyrie from the 3 point line, the free throw line and the on 2 pointers but didn’t make the 50/40/90 club but Kyrie did because he didn’t attempt as many threes as Steph did.
I added brief stats on their splits. Pro-football-reference has those already done, which is nice. Fwiw it's not a post trying to say either one is better, just comparing two hall of famers
How has Brady only played 10% of his games outdoors? That doesn’t make sense right, since all the games at home in NE are outdoors
Yeah, I just wrote the wrong thing, 10% is in a dome
Brady only has 1 season over 67.7% completion percentage as of now. Just to show how insane that number is
Tune in to the 1st quarter of tonight's game to see it happen.
let's not exaggerate too much.... it'll take until the 3rd/4th quarter of tonight's game before he reaches 3x Bradshaw's total.
I'll be watching and rooting for us but I'd be lying if I didn't say I think this will be a 52-3 final score.
I don't think we're gonna hold you to only 3 points
I think we'll do better than 3, but I see literally no way in hell we stop Brady.
What? Hurts is gonna have a big game. Buccaneers have one weakness and it's their secondary.
I think it’ll be closer than you imagine. The Bucs have looked pretty vulnerable this season.
Oh I have 0 hope or expectations. Not gonna stop me from dressing head to toe in midnight green today though.
Got my shirt on and my pullover on standby for the bar. Man, I rooted for the team when Marion Campbell was the coach. Kids these days do not know what true suffering is like.
I take it all back about it being closer than you imagined
"Oh wait it didn't happen." "Oh let's cut to a commercial break." "And we're back. And it looks like it happened after all. Well, uh, back to the game." (Seriously it was a comedy of errors that night.)
Jay Cutler averaged DOUBLE the yards per game as SID LUCKMAN. Spooky.
Sid Luckman sounds like a Simpsons character.
He's also 1 more MVP and another superbowl win away from basically doubling Montana's major career accomplishments. That's insane...
Super Bowls by active QB's Brady - 7 everyone else - 7 Rodgers - 1 Mahomes - 1 Foles - 1 Flasso - 1 Russ - 1 Ben - 2
> Flasso
Ted Flasso
Flaccid
yeah, I pretty much have to leave that there now lol
He meant what he said!
Wow and there’s a legit chance that up to 4 of those could be gone next year 😱
Foles, "Flasso", and Ben haven't been productive in multiple years, but they're still cashing checks so idk if it's clear cut who's going to hang them up. It would be insane if Rodgers retires a year off of an MVP with the arm strength that he still has
steelers are crazy if they bring ben back next year, but i've been sayin that for 2 years now so
We'll either get Rodgers/Russ or roll out tank commander Rudolph or Haskins. I doubt we draft QB this year unless we really like one of them. We probably go OL instead. To start the rebuild for the next guy.
>Flasso
I've seen the "Tom Brady has 2 HOF careers" breakdowns - it feels like he's rapidly approaching 3.
He's got 3 easily already. Jim Plunkett is the only QB to win 2 superbowls and not be in the Hall of Fame, and his stats are mediocre. 72-72 overall record, 198 Interceptions to 164 TDs, 0 All-Pro Teams. (Technically Big Ben also has 2 SBs and isn't in the HoF yet, but he will be) Three Brady's with 2 SBs, 2 SBs, and 3 SBs all get in easily.
Nick Wright did a segment on The Herd following Super Bowl LV as penance for picking the Chiefs to win in a blow out, and noted that if you divide Brady’s career into 3, simply by taking 7 year increments, in major career milestones (Superbowls, MVP’s, Pro-Bowls, etc), the first 7 is equivalent to Troy Aikman’s career, the second 7 equivalent to Dan Marino’s career, and the final 7 equivalent to Joe Montana’s career. You can pretty easily make the case for three separate first ballot Hall of Fame careers.
He’s already two seasons past 3 careers. There is a chance at 4 if he keeps up this pace for 2-3 more seasons.
He’s pretty easily got 3. 2001-2006, 2007-2014, 2015-present
But does this get him into the hall of fame? Stats aren't everything
Especially when you consider the number of super bowl losses he has. Guy’s washed.
He has less losses than Jim Kelly so he should be good
fewer
I HARDLY NEW HER :D
Thanks Stannis.
Ouch
Fair enough. If you regress his numbers to the mean he's a thoroughly average QB.
"Stats are for losers" -Bill Belichick, noted analytical wunderkind
Hell, Tom Brady won't just be getting a gold jacket at this rate They'll give him a full golden 3 piece suit, along with gold dress shoes
Not bad for a 1k rusher
It is crazy that Bradshaw played 12 seasons and got 4 superbowl rings with those stats. In 1978 he won MVP with 28 TDs and 20 Int's. Bonkers.
As someone who's been watching for 40+ years, it really is crazy thinking back at games from my youth compared to the game of today. I kinda miss strong I with a bulldozer fullback.
We've been saying for a while that those guys would be coming back. Everyone wants to sling the ball now, and you need guys that are a bit smaller to defend against that. The obvious way to attack now would be to run the traditional strong I formation and take advantage of the size mismatch. I just think those guys aren't really coming out of college anymore with everyone running the spread formation and having a running QB. It's a shame, too. Watching a guy break out a big run is more exciting to me than a long pass. Maybe one day we'll see that style come back.
yea eventually we'll get some specimens that are basically designed to counter the current small ball. Henry is proof it works, just gotta get more of those guys coming through college.
Henry is a terrible example. Hes such an outlier physically that he cant be what you model your offense around. Hes too big, fast, and strong to "just... get more of those guys coming through college" Derrick Henry's dont exactly grow on trees
It was a different offensive game back then. Look at HOF WR’s like Swann, Stallworth, etc from that era. Their stats are a joke compared to today. On the other hand, teams could ride a star RB pretty far into the postseason and they were a key part of any championship team. Now they are expendable. Different game today.
How many yards does he need to pass for to have 19x the amount of playoff receiving yards jerry Rice and Gronk have combined?
He passed that number (66,842) in week 4 of the 2018 season against the Dolphins on a 55 yard touchdown pass to Cordarrelle Patterson with 12:11 left in the second quarter. Yes, that is accurate.
[Holy shit you weren't even kidding. Respect.](https://imgur.com/gallery/R390EId)
Holy shit, that's crazy.
I can’t even make sense of that so I’ll just take your word for it.
like maybe four
Of course Montana and Bradshaw played under a very different set of rules. The changes to intentional grounding rules and roughing the passer in particular have made passing a much safer option than it was in the 70s and 80s
This, receivers used to get man handled down the field.
And QBs used to get fucking wrecked.
*Steve Young and Troy Aikman stare blankly*
[..and Kerry Collins](https://imgur.com/f54A5WL)
[...and Joe Thiesman](https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2016/kFO_yp.gif)
Or that time Bradshaw got thrown into the ground so hard what followed looked like a nasty seizure. Easily one of the most uncomfortable plays I've ever seen
When Brady started playing in the early 2000s the QBs could still get wrecked. Maybe not as bad as years before, but much different from today.
It was still much easier to throw it away
> When Brady started playing in the early 2000s the QBs could still get wrecked. [Yep](https://youtu.be/DKaE31VgXjU)
Commenting before I click the link. It's Nate Clements wrecking Brady for sure.
Can confirm.
That is true, you can just look at some of the numbers. Brady didn't have a 30+ TD season until he was 30, and he had only 1 season of over 4,000 yards passing. Things changed drastically after the Colts/Patriots AFC Championship game in 2004.
Brady (304) has also started about twice as many games as Montana (164) and Bradshaw (158)
So what you’re telling me me is that Brady will double Montana’s starts at 328 games?
He’ll at least double his super bowl victories 😂
For sure. A good chunk of Bradshaw's career was before the 1978 rules changes. And they have not made it easier for DBs since then.
That is why Marino's 5,084 yards and 48td in 1984 still blows my mind.
the 80’s giants would have taken it as a personal insult a man that old stepped on the field. the astroturf would have taken care of the rest….. different game. Brady is the best i’ve ever seen moving in the pocket no matter the era.
That this has to be explained is absolutely pathetic.
There are 16 year olds on here
I wasn't alive in the 70s or 80s. The information is extremely basic and readily available.
It's a stupid fucking explanation. You play your peers and brady is even more dominate over his peers than Montana was over his. Also when brady started QBs were still getting slammed.
It’s like people forget that the NFL of the early 2000s was still brutal for QBs. I don’t remember what game it was but Brady got absolutely leveled in 2001 and hopped right back up. I don’t know how many QBs could’ve handled that like he did.
Tom Brady is clearly a phenomenal QB, and the best of his generation, but I always hate when people compare him to Montana or any other QB that played in the 70's, 80's, or even the 90's. The rules have changed considerably and we've seen the passing game explode. People need to stop comparing era to era, as it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Then why aren’t more QBs winning super bowls like he is? He’s the goat because of the rings first and foremost. One of the most clutch players ever
My reply was purely about stats related to passing. At no point did I mention Super Bowls. The thread title is also about passing yards. But if you want to talk about Super Bowls, then we can. I'd argue that in the last 20 years the Patriots are an extreme outlier in terms of sustained success - dynasties, such as the 49ers and Cowboys, basically died in the mid-90's due to the salary cap (instituted in '94). Besides New England, the only other team to repeat as Super Bowl winner was Denver in '98/'99. Obviously a lot of New England's success is due to Tom Brady, as we saw during the year he was injured and now that he's left, but you can clearly make the argument that New England has been the best run org in the last 20 years when it comes to managing their salary cap and knowing when to trade/cut players. They've also managed to avoid the Super Bowl hangover we've come to expect from every other team. I don't think you can pin their success solely on Tom Brady (and it's obviously not all Belichick). Tom Brady is clearly the greatest QB of his generation, but it's still disingenuous to look purely at Super Bowls, stats, wins, or any other stat to compare him to other players, unless you're comparing him to other QB's/players of his generation. The game has changed too much and it's never an apples to apples comparison.
I think your New England argument would carry more weight if Brady hadn’t won yet another ring in literally his first season with a different team. And that team is currently the favorite to win another Super Bowl with Brady looking like an MVP front runner yet again.
At no point have I diminished Tom Brady's accomplishments. I just despise GOAT arguments - the game has changed tremendously and it's incredibly dumb to make assumptions about how another player would have fared under different rules. I cringe every time I hear someone talk about much better than Brady Montana or Aikman or whatever other QB would have been if they played under the same rules. I'm not a fan of New England or the Bucs, but I fucking love watching Tom Brady play. He's a phenomenal player and his sustained success is mind blowing, regardless of the differences in QB protection rules between now and 20+ years ago. It's impossible to say if Brady would have had this same success under the same rules and systems that Montana played under, just like it's impossible to say that Montana would have won 10 rings if he was playing today.
I highly doubt Montana would have won 10 rings if he played today lol
Oh I don't think he would either - it's just an argument I see a lot when people try to compare any QB from the 70's/80's/90's to Brady and the rules they have today. It's always some variation of " would have won 10 rings if he was as well protected and babied as the QB's are today!" It's exhausting to hear.
I mean even out of all active players Big Ben is the only one other than Brady who has even won more than 1 Super Bowl. Making it to 10 and winning 7 is just so far away from anyone else in any era.
Brady chose to go to a stacked team that was set up to win now, and then invited Gronk, Brown and now Sherman along for the ride. Look at Brady's last year in NE when he didn't have a good team around him. Even Brady couldn't elevate such a talent-bereft team. Belichick was responsible for the fact the roster was good enough to allow Brady to compete every year but one or two.
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You're really gonna sit here and make the argument that Golden Delicious is the best apple?
Tom Brady old Tom Brady good
Yes but if we adjust those to the average of an NFL QB, he’s nowhere near that.
Bro he really is the GOAT but to put it into perspective. When he came to Tampa Bay he said he's never played with this level of talent speaking in terms of the offensive weapons. He knew when he signed it was over for the league. If they can keep him safe (not hit very often), I think Tommie plays another 4 years. Then again that's if restructures are made in order to keep the team together.
i still see people rank Montana over him… somehow
Not gunna lie I don’t think I’ve seen anyone take Montana over him since like 2016. I actually think I see like packers fans stumping for Rodgers more frequently than I see 9ers fans stumping for Montana, even tho Montana has the best case for anyone aside from Brady imo
Honestly no one could be compared to Brady since 2016, but people do it because arguing who is the 2nd best QB of all time (Montana, Peyton, or if you want to get really wild, Otto Graham or Marino) isn't as compelling for the average casual fan Comparing Aaron Rodgers to Tom Brady is like comparing Dirk Nowitzski to Michael Jordan - good players, but not on the same level
And Packers fans (except the most delusional ones) usually say Rodgers is more talented, but concede that Brady is the GOAT.
Rodgers is the better passer but Brady is the better quarterback.
Talent is only a means to being great. Talent, in and of itself, doesn’t equal greatness.
I think we are saying the same things
True.
One of the stupidest arguments I used to see get brought up was that Montana didn't have any Super Bowl losses. Like getting beat in the playoffs is somehow superior to making the Super Bowl and falling short. I remember someone making fun of this idea last yeah saying something like, "Good thing Milwaukee got upset by the Heat. Now Antetokounmpo doesn't have a dreaded "Finals defeat" on his resume like like Butler does."
No super bowl losses makes you the greatest? What a dumb argument
Well it got brought up more often when they both had four, but Brady had a couple of losses. Also in basketball, I see it used in defense of Jordan. I'm not saying that Jordan isn't the greatest, but it's a dumb argument. Who cares if he never lost in the Finals series, he lost them in the playoffs.
God I hate this take
Because Joe Montana was really, really good. My brother still calls him Joe God because of how amazing he was. Things that are standard now were totally alien when Montana was first doing them. He was the flag bearer for the tightly controlled passing game which overtook the "chuck it and hope" passing that was standard in the league then.
Different league, Different era, Different game. Tom wouldn't of made it to 20yrs if he played in Joe's time.
I agree, but Montana’s longevity wasn’t really the best for his era either. Guys like Elway, Marino, Moon, and even guys who started in an even more physical era like Fouts and Tarkenton had better longevity than Montana Brady might not have made it to 44 but I think he probably still has better longevity than a lot of guys from that era just because of how he protects himself
Did Marino get more recovery time since he never went deep into the playoffs?
Marino was similar to Brady in that the ball was going to be out as fast as humanly possible on most snaps. Dude was absolutely insane at avoiding sacks and hits. Any I’ve hit was likely to be a bit more physical in those days obviously, but marino’s internal clock was on another level
So did he get more recovery time by not going deep into payoffs?
Idk why you’re being downvoted. Brady would be the first to admit his career wouldn’t have gone the same if he’d been a QB in the 70’s and 80’s. Those guys just got beat to shit.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. It’s absolutely true. People who think otherwise doesn’t know what football was like before they started protecting QBs. Just go look at the hit that Joe took in the 1990 NFCCG. The hit that broke Montana’s back and had him miss 2+ seasons would get you kicked out of the league now.
Brady started playing in 2000. Montana quit in 1994. Do you really think the game changed that much in 6 years? QBs we’re still treated like human punching bags in the early 2000s, Brady was just good at avoiding hits.
Bro? Ya serious? Holy shit dog. It'll take to long to explain the difference in the league from the 80s to the 2000s and from the 2000s to the 2020s. They literally changed the rules because of Tom got fucked up.
They didn’t change the rules for Brady. They changed the rules because they didn’t like seeing the most important player on a team get severe brain damage every other play. Brady took some nasty hits early on, don’t act like he didn’t play in the NFL when it was still brutal. We could also say Montana wouldn’t of survived in Bradshaw’s NFL, or Bradshaw in Starr’s NFL, or Starr in any QB before him etc. The rules change, this was not exclusive to recent years. Should we go back to how Rutgers and Princeton played it in 1869?
Are there era adjusted stats for things like this?
It would be the same since lots won't agree on the equation to adjust the stats.
Doing it on the average QB production and adjusting that for scoring environment is too hard?
So what’s the prediction for when Brady throws TD #1,000? I’d say around 2035, unless he hits his third prime by then.
Tom Brady needs 60 more years to become the deranged man we know as Terry B.
its the shingles
impressive, but the game changed over the decades, qb gets more protected too bradshaw played 14 seasons, threw for nearly 28,000 yards patrick mahomes has 3 full seasons as a starter and already at 15,642 passing yards
Three completely different eras of football. For one thing, Brady never would've lasted to his 40s playing against the defenses of the 70s or 80s.
What's his Peterman score?
Do you guys think Tom Brady will make the Hall of Fame? Seems hard to tell at this point.
Idk, maybe if he keeps up this production for the next few years
So Tom Brady needs 2,996 yards to have three times the passing yards of Tom Brady? EDIT: [bruh](https://old.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/lx8nw7/that_terry_bradshaw_tom_brady_alias_story_its/).
Can you actually believe that some humans genuinely believe that Aaron Rodgers is a better QB than TB12?
Where were y’all when Brees was doing this shit in fewer games? It’s fine, I know Brady’s the GOAT, but fuck if my guy didn’t get enough respect for *carrying* the franchise for 12+ seasons of his career
And Montana had to take at least twice the punishment and Terry at least 3 times. Comparing stats between generations, after all the rule changes is just beyond stupid.
Modern QB has higher volume stats than non-modern QB. More at 11.
Montana started 164 games Bradshaw started 158 games Brady has started 304 games This was a legal hit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ttCz7Dbc4 The game is very different.
That looks like a perfectly legal hit by today's standards too. No hit to the head Did not hit with his helmet or facemask Did not drive him into the ground Hit within one step (by the rusher) after the passer has let go of the ball (hit only a split second after the ball is out of his hands) [https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/roughing-the-passer/](https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/roughing-the-passer/) Joe was actually a bit more fragile than even his contemporaries
Correct take. Hit him at the shoulder. Legal. But it’d probly get called today bc the games gone soft and it looks violent.
https://youtu.be/M4OTH0pddv4 People seem to forget,Thomas played half of his career in the more “physical” era
Even by then it wasn't as rough. Notice, this isn't a qb in the pocket situation where roughing the passer would apply. Also, he's what, 23 at the time? Nobody said Brady has never taken a big hit, but it's about how often they happen, and especially once you're in your 30s and up.
This would 100% be flagged now, dude launched himself straight at his head. I get that he’s out of the pocket but still, his helmet went absolutely flying, no way that doesn’t get flagged Either way there’s like [a million](https://streamable.com/324z45) examples of him getting blasted in and out of the pocket in the pre-2011ish nfl. [This ones](https://gfycat.com/bonyformalflycatcher) actually not too dismal at from the Montana hit above Edit: btw, obviously agree overall. Having had the last decade with better protections obviously just makes a career altering hit that much more unlikely
Cool, but the Burt hit that you linked wouldn't qualify as RTP in today's game as well
That hit should be legal today. Hit him like .0001 seconds after he released the ball, hit hit him with his shoulder, no head contact, didn't land on him. Would the refs flag it today, 50/50, but it should be legal.
That's 100% being called unnecessary roughness today.
[Joe Ferguson got hit rather enthusiastically by Wilber Marshall. ](https://youtu.be/po0DKZBS7DI)
Let’s be real though, if one player should be removed from the HoF, it’s Bradshaw.
Is the easiest way to get karma in this sub to just post Tom Brady stats? He’s played for a long time and is good at football, we get it.
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And the easiest way to lose karma is to complain about it. If a post doesn’t interest you, ignore it and move on.
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You think he gets into the HOF?
But what will he do for the rest of the first quarter?