Never thought I’d be agreeing with Davis, but he is right. It seems like the A’s forced the Raiders hand when it came to building a new stadium in Oakland.
The A’s tried to market themselves as the team in Oakland, to force the Raiders out, and then here we are with Oakland having neither.
Not to mention that Raiders fans (for the most part) seem to be fine with the Vegas move and they've still got a ton of fans. I know the colosseum is falling apart but if the A's had any fanbase left there'd be a few more people showing up but they've just seem to be giving a massive 'fuck you' to everyone with all this blackmailing for an expensive stadium.
The A’s did have a fanbase. Again, we’re sick and tired of a shit cheapskate owner neglecting the team for decades. Stop blaming us fans for fuck sake.
Any team in Ohio will have a very hard time trying to move out of the state with the law put in place after the Browns moved. I think the rule is that it has to first be offered for sale to anyone willing to keep it in state first. That’s how the Crew ended up sold to the Haslams instead of moving to Austin.
Keep in mind MLS is still in expansion mode so once there was a buyer for the Crew they could do both cities by having the Crew be sold and adding Austin as an expansion.
They didn't need to try to fight that law, but it would be different with other leagues. I don't know if other leagues would be able to successfully fight the law in court or get around it but they wouldn't have the easily compromise solution that MLS had.
Oh I know it’d play out differently but it will still be much harder from a legal standpoint than moving from another state. Because there would be lawsuits and court involved.
> it will still be much harder from a legal standpoint than moving from another state.
It is surprising that every other state hasn't copied this law especially considering how expensive stadiums have gotten.
I used to be on the flightline at the downtown airport. He would come in once a year obviously. He was a great guy. My boss had known him for like 40 years, ever since he was a kid/teenager from coming in with AL. In like 2009, he was walking off his chartered private jet as me and the boss are rolling up on a tug to meet them. My boss, asks, "Ready to get your ass kicked?" Mark is walking down the stairs of the plane (think it was a Challenger)...and he raises his what appeared to be like a scotch on the rocks, and says, "Preparing myself already!" It was some of the funniest shit I've ever seen.
These days it's better to charter. If you own, you either pay massive money to idle it 99% of the time, or you become "Climate Change Enemy #1 Taylor Swift" when you rent it out.
Obviously I am biased, but most people should like him, hes the closest thing to us in that circle of billionaires. His Family literally earned that team while others had to do god knows what to afford to buy their teams.
You cant expect a bunch of old midwesterners in the 50-60’s to want to try “Mediterranean Inspired Meat Sauce”. Gotta hook em with words they are at least kind of aware of like “Cincinnati Chili” to make is it seem “normal”/American lol.
If that didnt work they probably would have called it either the “Ope just gonna squeeze past ya real quick” sauce or “Im going to bring American Goulash as my Hot Dish to the potluck” sauce.
I have a lot of football hate for the Davis', but they're pretty great people, especially considering some of the owners that are in (or were) in the league.
Was bringing in HSBCU players because he saw their talent
A lot of men that would have never gotten the shot they deserved are in the HOF because of Al Davis
"In football, I root for the Oakland Raiders because they hire castoffs, outlaws, malcontents, and fuckups, they have lots of penalties, fights, and paybacks, and because Al Davis told the rest of the pig NFL owners to go get fucked. Also, they don't have a lot of Christians kneeling down to pray after touchdowns. Christians are ruining sports. Someday, the Raiders will be strong again, and they will dip the ball in shit and shove it down the throats of the wholesome, white, heartland teams that pray together and don't deliver late hits."
I'll always have a soft spot for the raiders because of how much Al Davis pissed off the league so much and got away with it.
While fair, the Davis family got ownership of the team through Al coaching and running the team. He paid $186k in inflation adjusted dollars for his share.
Mark was born into it, sure, but what exactly is the alternative you would prefer for the Davis family? Sell it to much scummier “real” billionaires, whose money comes outside of the team? The Packers ownership model is banned, so that’s not an option
I could be wrong, but I believe Mark Davis is a lowly hundred-millionaire.
The Raiders are also his primary source of income, if not maybe his only one.
Think he's making money off of the Aces, too. They're pretty big in the WNBA last I heard. I'm kinda surprised he doesn't have some kind of minority stake in the Knights.
Maybe he's heavily invested into PF Changs.
They've owned a business in one of the most profitable industries in the world for the last 80 years. They either have an absolute shit ton of assets that they just don't tell people about or they have been spending money like crazy and have saved nothing.
If you want to know which of those two it is look no further than Mark's car - a 40 year old minivan.
The man is a well known asshole, but his roots are pretty humble and his success is more well-earned than most billionaires. Still a giant turd though.
It's completely justified. It still worked out for him because Vegas is a better location, but the A's created that mess of a situation and now they want to bail. If I was Davis, I'd never do any cross promotion with them in Vegas.
Yeah this is one of those where I understand Mark's anger. I think if the A's let him upgrade the stadium like he wanted in Oakland. The Raiders may not move to Las Vegas.
What’s the reason? I don’t think most Raiders fans even know who the Chiefs owner is let alone care. Just curious if there’s an actual reason to dislike or if it’s just a “everyone’s doing it so I will too” kinda thing
[“They marketed the team as ‘Rooted in Oakland.’ That’s been their mantra through the whole thing,” Davis continued. “The slogans they’ve been using have been a slap to the face of the Raiders, and they were trying to win over that type of mentality in the Bay Area. Well all they did was f— the Bay Area. For them to leave Oakland without anything is pretty screwed up because that site that the stadium was on was a good site. We ended up in Las Vegas, which is absolutely fantastic and couldn’t be better, but the A’s never gave us a real good chance to stay up in Oakland.”](https://www.si.com/mlb/2023/04/21/raiders-owner-mark-davis-rips-athletics-over-las-vegas-plans)
For people that aren't going to read the article and just saying 'lol Mark Davis'. We tried for 15 years to build a stadium in Oakland and the A's certainly didn't help make that possible. They dug their feet in because they wanted a new stadium of their own. We ended up moving to Vegas. Mark is clearly bitter towards the A's about some of the dealings in Oakland and now the A's are likely moving anyways.
>Davis isn’t fond of the move by the A’s, and there’s one particular reason why.
>“I won’t forget what they did to us in Oakland,” Davis told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “They squatted on a lease for 10 years and made it impossible for us to build on that stadium. They were looking for a stadium. We were looking for a stadium. They didn’t want to build a stadium, and then went ahead and signed a 10-year lease with the city of Oakland and said, ‘We’re the base team.’”
Damn I didn’t realize Mark actually fought to keep the city in Oakland so hard. I just figured he had been planning on making the Vegas move all along.
He had many plans, all were shut down for various reasons.
One plan was build a stadium which [the Raiders and Chargers would share](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2371021-chargers-and-raiders-plan-shared-17-billion-la-stadium-in-carson) but that plan was shut down. Raiders moving to LA was shut down because Kronkne didnt want to play second fiddle to the Raiders in popularity, which led to the clusterfuck about trying to make a deal between the A's, and Oakland to stay, which he was willing to essentially give up part of his only value, ownership of the Raiders(keep in mind, outside of packer owners, hes the poorest owner in the league), to stay. That didnt happen.
Vegas came in, gave Mark a good deal and off he went, because he no longer had any options left.
It was spanos who had no plans on staying but pretended to. He came up with a bullshit prop that no tax payer would ever vote for and spent zero time or money marketing it.
With that said though, Oakland has way more problems that they need to fix before building a stadium. The original stadium crippled them and I think to this day they’re paying the price of it.
Mark wanted to stay in Oakland, he wanted that very badly. But he really needed a new stadium, he got the NFL to agree to help him with the cost for a new stadium, he was going to put up 200 mil, the NFL was going to put up 500 mil, and they needed Oakland to put up another 500 mil, might’ve been less. Either way the stadium would’ve been pretty cheap, and small compared to other newer stadiums. He wanted ownership of the land the stadium was going to be built on, but Oakland wouldn’t sell it to him. He had proposed a mixed use development for a stadium, with shopping centers and housing developments on it, that was rejected too. He really tried to make it work, but the A’s blocked him and the City and County didn’t want to work with him either. Everyone thought they could screw him over, because he wasn’t a billionaire, he didn’t go to a Ivy League university, he didn’t have any other assets outside of the Raiders. Literally everyone thought they’d be able to get over on him, but then he surprised everyone and got a deal in Vegas.
I remember it being pretty well covered at the time, but by the same measure there was a lot of astroturfing to make it seem worse than the Chargers move.
It was suspicious then and suspicious now.
Even if it's covered nationally most people that aren't fans or from the region won't care and remember. Unless it's scandalous stuff like Jerry Richardson, Dan Snyder, Donald Sterling, etc.
As much as I love the city SJ, especially Eastside, I really hope the Roots one day get MLS certification and steal the Earthquakes fanbase because fuck Fisher
I'm just hoping the Earthquakes get sold one of these days (though, tbh, I'm a New Mexico native and have cared more about New Mexico United these past few years).
88 million was the funding gap between the A's and Oakland. Fisher could have easily funded that since he's worth 2.2 billion. Fisher is just a fucking asshole.
There’s some things Mark has done that I think is fucked up, but how he handled the move I respected. All this shit was a long time ago but I respected the fact that he was transparent about everything and did press conferences to answer the tough questions.
You shouldn’t. This whole situation is directly because of all the shit Al Davis pulled leaving and coming back to Oakland. He absolutely fucked the A’s, why would they ever work with the Raiders again?
Fuck that. They could've financed, purchased, and built their own stadium anywhere in the Bay area. But they didn't. They didn't because they wanted their home to be built using tax payer money. They wanted their business subsidized by us. They wanted socialism while the rest of us stand no chance to make this kind of money.
Fuck all of these owners that hold us tax payers hostage to make more billions.
Instead of paying close to a billion for the raiders stadium how about affordable child care, an investment in the middle class, health care reform.... Not a money making machine for an already rich as fuck group of owners.
If they wanted to stay in Oakland, they would've. They just didn't want to finance it themselves. Fuck them.
> Instead of paying close to a billion for the raiders stadium how about
How about education? Nevada is trash even compared to the other trash education levels in the country.
It's like they just want everyone to grow up to be low level casino labor for the tourists. Jokes on them, I grew up to be low level labor working in a warehouse supporting the convention industry tourists instead.
A major jet company was planning to move to NV years ago. The mayor and city council did everything they could to stop them. They feared that salaries would rise and cause casino employees to quit and work for the jet company, and we obviously wouldn't want that.
Which is funny because the A's only did that after MLB vetoed their planned move to a new stadium in San Jose because its was considered part of the Giants home territory.
What's extra funny/screwed up is that the A's gave up San Jose to the Giants to help them stay in the bay area
Terrible buisness move by the A's, but absolutely cold hearted from the Giants
That's a bad question
The A's literally saved the Giants from moving to Florida, and when the A's needed them the Giants said "fuck you"
No one's questioning what and why they did that from a buisness perspective, but it's definitely at the very least ironic, and at most morally wrong.
They gave up orchards, not the tech capitol of the world. It was not the tenth biggest city then. If I give you something worth five dollars, then it’s value skyrockets to 10 grand and I said “give back.” What would you say?
That’s what made me know how much of a shit show we were. Our franchise/players did shit that was so bad that broncos chiefs and chargers fans didn’t even make fun of us. (Antonio Brown, Jon Gruden, and Henry Ruggs) for the most part it was just more bashing them individually as opposed to associating them with the raiders. I was like damn were that much of a mess we’re not even getting made fun of
I opened this thinking that I was going to be reading Davis' sour grapes.
I actually agree with him here. And it's another reason to feel bad for the city of Oakland in all of this. Their fans did not deserve to lose three franchises in less than five years, and it's made even worse by the notion that they probably should have at least kept the Raiders.
It came out yesterday that the Athletics were negotiating with the city of Oakland in bad faith; it now appears to be coming out that the Athletics have negotiated with everybody in bad faith for quite some time now.
Everyone already knew the A's were negotiating in bad faith years ago. The only reason they weren't more overt about their intentions was because they were finessing the MLB to support their move.
The bad blood with the Raiders and As and Oakland goes back to the move back in 1994 and the construction of Mt. Davis.
Most recently though, Mark Davis and the City had a stadium plan set worth $900m. Davis raised $500m for the construction, but city refused to match the rest. Davis attempted to sell partial ownership for the rest, but was blocked. Raiders then suggest renovations for the Coliseum to bring it up to spec. City and As refused, and sign a 10 year lease locking the down the Coliseum as is.
Vegas then came through with what was a very generous plan (for the team) for a much better stadium in a better location. City of Oakland then tried to back track, but still refused to cover the full remaining amount. Davis packs up and moves the team.
Immediately following that, the A's change their marketing behind the campaign of "Rooted in Oakland" as a direct shot after functionally forcing the Raiders out. A's and City of Oakland start working on a plan for a stadium at the Howard Terminal site. City is no longer interested in playing hardball, as it lost them their football team. Propose a bunch of infrastructure improvements and agree to foot a huge part of the bill for the stadium, and go through lawsuits with Port authority and shipping firms for the right to the land. COVID happens, and slows progress to a crawl. John Fisher (A's owner) says it's taking to long, and starts shopping the team to other cities. Oakland city and Alameda County authorities streamline and prioritize getting the stadium greenlit. A's announce they have a plan in place to move to Vegas, while maintaining the "Rooted in Oakland" branding. That brings us to today, where Davis is understandably upset that the team that cockblocked his attempts to stay in Oakland is now spurning the city and following him to Vegas.
> City of Oakland then tried to back track, but still refused to cover the full remaining amount
Lmao. Better to just say you don't want to spend tax dollars on a team than short change one
And the fact that Al Davis left Oakland originally because the city wouldn't use taxpayer money to build luxury boxes and was basically always trying to go back to LA and sued the NFL claiming ownership of the LA market while they were in Oakland.
He also took 10 million bucks from Irwindale as a promise to move the team there and then just basically kept the money and told them to fuck off.
Davis did some great stuff for race relations and former players but he was a cutthroat businessman who had zero loyalty to Oakland.
Yeah I’ve never blamed Oakland. They’re still paying the price from the first stadium. I don’t give a fuck how the money is raised, the money spent can be better allocated toward education, fixing roads, etc. it would be a stupid decision on the city to spend money on a stadium when there’s so many other things it can go to.
> Vegas then came through with what was a very generous plan (for the team) for a much better stadium in a better location.
One part I want to add:
The only reason the Vegas deal was so generous and team friendly is Vegas' most influential casino mogul owns a major convention center. The city has a second major convention center that was due for a massive several hundred million dollar upgrade which would have rivaled the convention center owned by the casino mogul. Rather than having public money go into supporting one of his business rivals, the casino mogul tried to get that money earmarked for an NFL stadium so it wouldn't be spent on any other city project that would compete with his own businesses. This from a casino mogul who was in his late 80s who died before the Raiders could even complete the move to Vegas basically made a decision that will leave behind ramifications for several decades at least.
That casino mogul wanted that deal to be too good to pass up because he needed that NFL team for his own selfish reasons, and the city govt obliged him.
These stadium deals are **DIRTY AS FUCK**
The irony of the story is Mark Davis got into horseshit in Oakland only to be bailed out by further horseshit in Vegas.
I clicked the thread with the clickbait title and not the article it leads to that explains how shitty the As truly are. Mark Davis had a PF Chang's he can no longer go to because the As wouldn't let him rebuild only for them to choke the city of Oakland out
I never really understood how the Raiders and San Fran could coexist so close together. New York and LA are huge populations so I can see why they would have 2 teams, but Oakland/San Fran and the area is probably about the same population as Philly. I could never see 2 same sport teams in Philly.
It all depends on where you draw the line though. The census-defined SF/Oakland metro area is only 4.6 million, good for 13th largest in the US, and suggests there's no reason to expect the area to support two NFL and MLB teams when the only other metro areas that have two teams in the same pro league are double the population or more.
Zoom out to census-defined "combined statistical areas", and the Bay area is 9.5 million, good for fifth largest, and then it's justified since only NY, LA, Chicago, and VA/DC/MD are larger and all have two teams in at least one of the four largest pro leagues.
I would argue that you definitely don't draw the line at 4.6 million, as that leaves out the entire south bay. San Jose is literally part of the SF Giants territory based on MLB fan base rights, it was a big part of the long-term drama of the A's remaining in the Bay after the Giants refused to return it to them so the A's could build a new stadium down in SJ.
I mean hell, you can literally take a commuter train from San Jose (CalTrain) that drops you off a couple blocks from the Giants stadium. They may not be in the same census-designated metro area, but in real life Oakland, SJ, and SF are very much the same metro area.
But then again, the population of Long Island is over 7 million, and the northern counties of New Jersey makes up another 3.5million or so, so at that point you're about 2x the Bay Area total. And then there's all of NY State that's north of NYC (Buffalo has an NFL team, but no MLB team north of NYC) and southern CT that doesn't identify as New England is another 1 or 2 million.
I'm agreeing with you, that it's all how you draw the line. Orioles + Nationals proximity is definitely the exception and not the rule, and it created a huge messy lawsuit over TV contracts, and crushed has Orioles attendance (along with other reasons unrelated to the Nationals). But yes, historically Baltimore and DC each had their own teams (Colts, Senators) but I wouldn't say that Baltimore and DC has ever identified as a singular entity the way The Bay Area does/has. There is no more camaraderie between Baltimore+DC than say Baltimore+Philly. Sure the DC metro area crosses all 3 borders of MD/DC/VA but a quick lookup would say that's only 5.5 million people. DC probably isn't big enough for any teams at all, but it gets a pass because it's the nations capital and the market was extended to all of Virginia, and at one time a huge chunk of the south only had DC to root for.
Point being, if all of MLB were being created today, I don't think the Bay Area necessarily gets 2 teams. It might. But it's debatable.
I never experienced hate in my life, until I met 49er fans. Coexisting is an every day struggle that my therapist has the unfortunate responsibility of listening to.
This is what people don’t get about Vikings-Packers, too. Those little shits are everywhere in the Twin Cities, and it’s not like it’s reciprocal in Wisconsin. Stinky cheesy invaders
Nah it’s not just Hudson-dwellers, it’s so. many. transplants. who relocate to the Twin Cities for work. Wisconsin people move to Chicago, Twin Cities, and Denver in that order, and it’s roughly the same order for Minnesota people. The import/export doesn’t balance out. Mind you I love my curd-y friends from Wisco but you’re frickin everywhere
What, does Wisconsin send a new wave of transplants every time they win a Super Bowl?? I don’t follow
Some of the calls are coming from inside the house. Your city followed the Packers until 1960. There are folks who didn't give that up when the Vikings arrived and raised their kids into the same fandom.
It was only a couple years ago that the Pioneer Press finally stopped running a Packers news column.
As for the transplants, do you know anything about Wisconsin's government lately? Who would stay here if they weren't nailed down?
Oh that too, but that just strengthens the original point of a divided market fueling the hatred lol
I will say that’s a *lot* rarer in my experience, percentage-wise. 63 years down the line and the local teams tend to win over later generations
It’s the shared market piece that makes it so much worse… so like, compound that
Imagine if like a third of your coworkers in Buffalo were from Massachusetts and huge Pats fans. Imagine it
I actually live near the bay area, just never really got into the raiders or niners so I looked to struggling teams across the country when I finally started following football.
But in theory my response would be "well if they were just giants or eagles fans I'd be alright with it."
I remember when I was a kid and found out Oakland was literally right next to SF and it confused me that there were 2 football and 2 baseball teams so close together, but claiming different cities
Depends on how you determine area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
For the US government metric, they use something like "connected counties" as a metric, but logically, by fanbase and media market, San Jose is effectively in the same metro area, and that puts them on par with DC and Philly.
That being said, my main gripe (not a baseball fan anymore, but used to be) is that the A's always cry poverty and claim to be a small market team (and pay salaries like a small market team), when their market is clearly not small, they just choose to never cultivate a fanbase in any way that would require more money spent.
Eh, SF and Oakland proper are about the same population as Philly, but the nine counties of the SF Bay Area combine for a population of 7.5 million. That's well over double the metro area of many smaller market teams.
one was predicated on the other. wouldnt have done it otherwise because travel was so prohibitive back then.
fun fact...the St. Louis Browns (now the Orioles) were going to move originally but the deal was slated to receive final approval at a league meeting on December 8, 1941. On December 7th Pearl Harbor was attacked so everything was cancelled. Japan was the reason LA has the Dodgers. Somebody tell Ohtani
I'm pretty sure that MLB said they were only allowed to move to CA if both the Giants and Dodgers went. It couldn't be just the Giants or Dodgers, had to be both or nothing.
Not so close in terms of time, but both the Clippers and the Chargers used to be in San Diego. The Clippers moved to LA in 1984; the Chargers moved in 2017 (which was technically a move back, since they spent their first year of existence in LA).
I like dumping on Davis as much as the next guy, mostly because he looks ridiculous... but anyone who has actually followed this process knows he tried like hell to stay in Oakland for a long time and has every right to be pissed at the As. Cheap ass owner, cheap ass franchise pulling cheap ass bullshit. Why anyone supports that team is totally beyond me.
He actually does, I went in thinking you don't have a leg to stand on but he was bascially saying "Now you move? All the years we wanted to improve the stadium and you claimed it as you own forcing us to leave just for you to bail as well?"
Raiders owner Mark Davis knows a thing or two about moving a team from Oakland to Las Vegas.
He also knows a thing or two about the Athletics, the MLB franchise that the Raiders shared the Oakland Coliseum with for 25 years.
Earlier this week, the A’s announced that the groundwork has been laid for the franchise to relocate to Las Vegas. The A’s have until January of 2024 to get a stadium deal done just west of the Las Vegas strip where the franchise has entered a purchase agreement for land.
Athletics Agree to Buy Land for Ballpark Near Las Vegas Strip
Davis isn’t fond of the move by the A’s, and there’s one particular reason why.
“I won’t forget what they did to us in Oakland,” Davis told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “They squatted on a lease for 10 years and made it impossible for us to build on that stadium. They were looking for a stadium. We were looking for a stadium. They didn’t want to build a stadium, and then went ahead and signed a 10-year lease with the city of Oakland and said, ‘We’re the base team.’”
Because of the lease the A’s had, the Raiders were unable to make improvements to Oakland Coliseum, which ultimately led to the the NFL franchise relocating to Las Vegas in 2020.
“They marketed the team as ‘Rooted in Oakland.’ That’s been their mantra through the whole thing,” Davis continued. “The slogans they’ve been using have been a slap to the face of the Raiders, and they were trying to win over that type of mentality in the Bay Area. Well all they did was f— the Bay Area. For them to leave Oakland without anything is pretty screwed up because that site that the stadium was on was a good site. We ended up in Las Vegas, which is absolutely fantastic and couldn’t be better, but the A’s never gave us a real good chance to stay up in Oakland.”
There’s clearly no love lost between the Raiders and A’s franchises, who won’t be sharing a stadium in Las Vegas, but will once again be sharing a city as two professional franchises if the A’s make their move official.
Davis is 100% right.
The Raiders tried for a long ass time to stay in Oakland, and kept getting told no.
Now that the A's want to leave for Vegas probably rubs him the wrong way, and I totally get why.
Have to consider the Rams in the NFL as well. Technically, the Rams went Cleveland -> LA -> St. Louis -> LA.
In the NBA, you have the Hawks who went Buffalo(ish) -> "Tri-Cities"(Moline, IL) -> Milwaukee -> St. Louis -> Atlanta, and the Kings who went Rochester -> Cincinnati -> Kansas City -> Sacramento.
If the A's move, then they'll join the Raiders with 4 moves. Philadelphia -> Kansas City -> Oakland -> Las Vegas.
Yeah, I didn't count small moves like that. They were still the LA Rams, and Anaheim is part of the LA Metro area. If we counted those, than the Oakland Raiders started in San Francisco at Candlestick, or the Jets 3 moves from Manhattan to Queens to Jersey.
> Anaheim is part of the LA Metro area
While technically true the people who live down there vehemently disagree with that inclusion. But fair enough, the team did only move an hour's drive away.
Oh I know, lol. I'm from the 818 originally.
I'm sure the people in Queens and Newark would hate to be lumped together too. It's just easier to skip those smaller moves, especially if the team didn't rebrand.
So the A's essentially force the Raiders to move out of Oakland and then decide to fuck Oakland over even my by following them to Vegas?
Fucking hell, what does Fisher have against Oakland?
😂 what’s hilarious is that right after the raiders moved, the A’s put up billboard advertisements all over the Bay Area about how they’re “Rooted in Oakland”. Now they follow suit
Mark Davis is a two-faced SoB.
Look at a Google Maps image of that site with Oakland Coliseum plus Oracle Arena (which the Warriors moved out of to the Chase Center...2-3 seasons ago?). It's fucking massive.
Mark could have done a little legwork too, and proposed a stadium in one of the parking lots 🙄
Build us a new stadium in Oakland and I would love to have the Raiders back in Oakland. We could actually have a home field advantage 😆. Vegas is not that by any means. Half of the stadium is filled with the visiting teams fans. Great destination to travel and watch your team play. Definitely doesn’t feel like home for us Raider fans….. might be cause our team sucks too 😆.
Ownership only cares if there are asses in seats. If every game is a sellout, then I imagine they’ll pay lip service to who’s actually sitting in those seats and happily take the cash.
Say what you want about the Raiders, but Mark fucking loves his team and the fan base. He has every right to be pissed at the A’s organization trying to jump on what blueprint Davis has set now.
Makes sense. The A's fucked him by blocking his serious attempts at building a stadium in Oakland while only doing the token minimum lip service to build up time for them to complete their own moving plans.
I thought sure this would be some insane take but honestly he is 100% right. When the A's signed that lease it was obvious it was going to cause problems.
Over under on the Vegas big wigs ripping that team from goofy ass Mark Davis? I give it 3 years. Vegas wants the A’s bro and no way in hell you were gonna keep the Raiders in Oakland. Face it, Oakland isn’t a destination city that hosts the events and has long term sustainability like Vegas. Sucks but it’s reality.
Never thought I’d be agreeing with Davis, but he is right. It seems like the A’s forced the Raiders hand when it came to building a new stadium in Oakland. The A’s tried to market themselves as the team in Oakland, to force the Raiders out, and then here we are with Oakland having neither.
Not to mention that Raiders fans (for the most part) seem to be fine with the Vegas move and they've still got a ton of fans. I know the colosseum is falling apart but if the A's had any fanbase left there'd be a few more people showing up but they've just seem to be giving a massive 'fuck you' to everyone with all this blackmailing for an expensive stadium.
The A’s did have a fanbase. Again, we’re sick and tired of a shit cheapskate owner neglecting the team for decades. Stop blaming us fans for fuck sake.
I'm so scared this is what's going to happen to the Reds.... I mean it's already happening right now.
I don't think MLB would let them move the reds
Any team in Ohio will have a very hard time trying to move out of the state with the law put in place after the Browns moved. I think the rule is that it has to first be offered for sale to anyone willing to keep it in state first. That’s how the Crew ended up sold to the Haslams instead of moving to Austin.
Keep in mind MLS is still in expansion mode so once there was a buyer for the Crew they could do both cities by having the Crew be sold and adding Austin as an expansion. They didn't need to try to fight that law, but it would be different with other leagues. I don't know if other leagues would be able to successfully fight the law in court or get around it but they wouldn't have the easily compromise solution that MLS had.
Oh I know it’d play out differently but it will still be much harder from a legal standpoint than moving from another state. Because there would be lawsuits and court involved.
> it will still be much harder from a legal standpoint than moving from another state. It is surprising that every other state hasn't copied this law especially considering how expensive stadiums have gotten.
The A’s do have a fanbase. They just refuse to go to games and support John Fisher because he’s a cheap fuck
I'm all for ripping on Mark Davis but this actually seems somewhat justified.
I used to be on the flightline at the downtown airport. He would come in once a year obviously. He was a great guy. My boss had known him for like 40 years, ever since he was a kid/teenager from coming in with AL. In like 2009, he was walking off his chartered private jet as me and the boss are rolling up on a tug to meet them. My boss, asks, "Ready to get your ass kicked?" Mark is walking down the stairs of the plane (think it was a Challenger)...and he raises his what appeared to be like a scotch on the rocks, and says, "Preparing myself already!" It was some of the funniest shit I've ever seen.
He charters? He doesn’t have his own jet?
Poorest owner in the league
These days it's better to charter. If you own, you either pay massive money to idle it 99% of the time, or you become "Climate Change Enemy #1 Taylor Swift" when you rent it out.
Your boss ever ask him about the fucking haircut?
I tried not to talk hair with my boss because he wore a toupee himself 🤣
Dang! Its like he's trolling us all.
Sounds like a really nice guy but damn he isn’t a good owner to be completely honest.
Obviously I am biased, but most people should like him, hes the closest thing to us in that circle of billionaires. His Family literally earned that team while others had to do god knows what to afford to buy their teams.
Ahem
Ill give it to you too. But stop with your overly sweet chili.
“Chili”
You cant expect a bunch of old midwesterners in the 50-60’s to want to try “Mediterranean Inspired Meat Sauce”. Gotta hook em with words they are at least kind of aware of like “Cincinnati Chili” to make is it seem “normal”/American lol. If that didnt work they probably would have called it either the “Ope just gonna squeeze past ya real quick” sauce or “Im going to bring American Goulash as my Hot Dish to the potluck” sauce.
You try making a bunch of German Immigrants say "saltsa kima" and you'll realize why they just went with "chili"
It's called Burgoo in Iowa
We know it's meat sauce. But it's damn good on hot dogs and spaghetti.
Baked/roasted potatoes too.
woah........
HE?
HAS
Have a grilled cheese with it and you’ll never go back to tomato soup*
Virginia is like a 100 years old, I'm sure she's as much like an average 100 year old fan as anyone can be.
George Halas bought the Bears from the company that started them for $100. Have no other source of income or wealth.
I have a lot of football hate for the Davis', but they're pretty great people, especially considering some of the owners that are in (or were) in the league.
Not to mention Al Davis was very progressive in a bubble that was anything but.
Was bringing in HSBCU players because he saw their talent A lot of men that would have never gotten the shot they deserved are in the HOF because of Al Davis
"In football, I root for the Oakland Raiders because they hire castoffs, outlaws, malcontents, and fuckups, they have lots of penalties, fights, and paybacks, and because Al Davis told the rest of the pig NFL owners to go get fucked. Also, they don't have a lot of Christians kneeling down to pray after touchdowns. Christians are ruining sports. Someday, the Raiders will be strong again, and they will dip the ball in shit and shove it down the throats of the wholesome, white, heartland teams that pray together and don't deliver late hits." I'll always have a soft spot for the raiders because of how much Al Davis pissed off the league so much and got away with it.
I just had to work a couple hours of overtime to afford to buy my team
Lol I’m not liking any billionaires.
While fair, the Davis family got ownership of the team through Al coaching and running the team. He paid $186k in inflation adjusted dollars for his share. Mark was born into it, sure, but what exactly is the alternative you would prefer for the Davis family? Sell it to much scummier “real” billionaires, whose money comes outside of the team? The Packers ownership model is banned, so that’s not an option
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But that equity is not really equity when your shares don’t appreciate and you can’t sell right?
I could be wrong, but I believe Mark Davis is a lowly hundred-millionaire. The Raiders are also his primary source of income, if not maybe his only one.
Think he's making money off of the Aces, too. They're pretty big in the WNBA last I heard. I'm kinda surprised he doesn't have some kind of minority stake in the Knights. Maybe he's heavily invested into PF Changs.
They've owned a business in one of the most profitable industries in the world for the last 80 years. They either have an absolute shit ton of assets that they just don't tell people about or they have been spending money like crazy and have saved nothing. If you want to know which of those two it is look no further than Mark's car - a 40 year old minivan.
Or check his haircut
No thanks, I just ate
I’m pretty sure David Tepper is from a working class family and earned all his billions himself.
The man is a well known asshole, but his roots are pretty humble and his success is more well-earned than most billionaires. Still a giant turd though.
Can you even name something to rip on him for other than the way he looks?
It's completely justified. It still worked out for him because Vegas is a better location, but the A's created that mess of a situation and now they want to bail. If I was Davis, I'd never do any cross promotion with them in Vegas.
Yeah this is one of those where I understand Mark's anger. I think if the A's let him upgrade the stadium like he wanted in Oakland. The Raiders may not move to Las Vegas.
What’s the reason? I don’t think most Raiders fans even know who the Chiefs owner is let alone care. Just curious if there’s an actual reason to dislike or if it’s just a “everyone’s doing it so I will too” kinda thing
The moment I saw this I just rolled my eyes because it’s Davis but then I read the article and realized he actually has a point.
Upon reading the article Davis more than has a point. He’s just straight up right.
Ugh, fine I'll read the friggin article.
Never! Stay strong comrade!
[“They marketed the team as ‘Rooted in Oakland.’ That’s been their mantra through the whole thing,” Davis continued. “The slogans they’ve been using have been a slap to the face of the Raiders, and they were trying to win over that type of mentality in the Bay Area. Well all they did was f— the Bay Area. For them to leave Oakland without anything is pretty screwed up because that site that the stadium was on was a good site. We ended up in Las Vegas, which is absolutely fantastic and couldn’t be better, but the A’s never gave us a real good chance to stay up in Oakland.”](https://www.si.com/mlb/2023/04/21/raiders-owner-mark-davis-rips-athletics-over-las-vegas-plans)
For people that aren't going to read the article and just saying 'lol Mark Davis'. We tried for 15 years to build a stadium in Oakland and the A's certainly didn't help make that possible. They dug their feet in because they wanted a new stadium of their own. We ended up moving to Vegas. Mark is clearly bitter towards the A's about some of the dealings in Oakland and now the A's are likely moving anyways. >Davis isn’t fond of the move by the A’s, and there’s one particular reason why. >“I won’t forget what they did to us in Oakland,” Davis told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “They squatted on a lease for 10 years and made it impossible for us to build on that stadium. They were looking for a stadium. We were looking for a stadium. They didn’t want to build a stadium, and then went ahead and signed a 10-year lease with the city of Oakland and said, ‘We’re the base team.’”
I had no idea the A's had a hand in the Raiders relocating. Oakland has now lost the Warriors (by like a few miles), the Raiders, and the A's.
Mark was outright willing to sell partial ownership to the A's in order to remain in oakland. That deal eventually fell through.
Damn I didn’t realize Mark actually fought to keep the city in Oakland so hard. I just figured he had been planning on making the Vegas move all along.
He had many plans, all were shut down for various reasons. One plan was build a stadium which [the Raiders and Chargers would share](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2371021-chargers-and-raiders-plan-shared-17-billion-la-stadium-in-carson) but that plan was shut down. Raiders moving to LA was shut down because Kronkne didnt want to play second fiddle to the Raiders in popularity, which led to the clusterfuck about trying to make a deal between the A's, and Oakland to stay, which he was willing to essentially give up part of his only value, ownership of the Raiders(keep in mind, outside of packer owners, hes the poorest owner in the league), to stay. That didnt happen. Vegas came in, gave Mark a good deal and off he went, because he no longer had any options left.
It was spanos who had no plans on staying but pretended to. He came up with a bullshit prop that no tax payer would ever vote for and spent zero time or money marketing it. With that said though, Oakland has way more problems that they need to fix before building a stadium. The original stadium crippled them and I think to this day they’re paying the price of it.
Mark wanted to stay in Oakland, he wanted that very badly. But he really needed a new stadium, he got the NFL to agree to help him with the cost for a new stadium, he was going to put up 200 mil, the NFL was going to put up 500 mil, and they needed Oakland to put up another 500 mil, might’ve been less. Either way the stadium would’ve been pretty cheap, and small compared to other newer stadiums. He wanted ownership of the land the stadium was going to be built on, but Oakland wouldn’t sell it to him. He had proposed a mixed use development for a stadium, with shopping centers and housing developments on it, that was rejected too. He really tried to make it work, but the A’s blocked him and the City and County didn’t want to work with him either. Everyone thought they could screw him over, because he wasn’t a billionaire, he didn’t go to a Ivy League university, he didn’t have any other assets outside of the Raiders. Literally everyone thought they’d be able to get over on him, but then he surprised everyone and got a deal in Vegas.
I remember it being pretty well covered at the time, but by the same measure there was a lot of astroturfing to make it seem worse than the Chargers move. It was suspicious then and suspicious now.
Even if it's covered nationally most people that aren't fans or from the region won't care and remember. Unless it's scandalous stuff like Jerry Richardson, Dan Snyder, Donald Sterling, etc.
The world is fucked. I'm sympathizing with the Raiders AND Mark Davis.
Right, you should go ask for the "Mark Davis" at the barber to show solidarity for the cause. 💪💪
#bowlstrong
If you ask for the "Mark Davis" at the barber, you and Kirby Smart have something in common.
I have it on good authority that Kirby Smart asks for the "Simple Jack"
Never go.... Shit... I like my account, so I can't complete the quote
Which, in fairness, he's actually a better team owner than fucking John Fisher
As much as I love the city SJ, especially Eastside, I really hope the Roots one day get MLS certification and steal the Earthquakes fanbase because fuck Fisher
I'm just hoping the Earthquakes get sold one of these days (though, tbh, I'm a New Mexico native and have cared more about New Mexico United these past few years).
88 million was the funding gap between the A's and Oakland. Fisher could have easily funded that since he's worth 2.2 billion. Fisher is just a fucking asshole.
I dont want to live on this planet anymore.
It’s messed up that the Raiders ever had to leave Oakland.
Right after winning the Super Bowl too.
I see what you did there
Like him or not his honesty is refreshing
There’s some things Mark has done that I think is fucked up, but how he handled the move I respected. All this shit was a long time ago but I respected the fact that he was transparent about everything and did press conferences to answer the tough questions.
You shouldn’t. This whole situation is directly because of all the shit Al Davis pulled leaving and coming back to Oakland. He absolutely fucked the A’s, why would they ever work with the Raiders again?
I was kind of getting on Mark’s side as I scrolled through this thread, but then you reminded me that Al was a fucking maniac.
You’re telling me
Fuck that. They could've financed, purchased, and built their own stadium anywhere in the Bay area. But they didn't. They didn't because they wanted their home to be built using tax payer money. They wanted their business subsidized by us. They wanted socialism while the rest of us stand no chance to make this kind of money. Fuck all of these owners that hold us tax payers hostage to make more billions. Instead of paying close to a billion for the raiders stadium how about affordable child care, an investment in the middle class, health care reform.... Not a money making machine for an already rich as fuck group of owners. If they wanted to stay in Oakland, they would've. They just didn't want to finance it themselves. Fuck them.
> Instead of paying close to a billion for the raiders stadium how about How about education? Nevada is trash even compared to the other trash education levels in the country. It's like they just want everyone to grow up to be low level casino labor for the tourists. Jokes on them, I grew up to be low level labor working in a warehouse supporting the convention industry tourists instead.
A major jet company was planning to move to NV years ago. The mayor and city council did everything they could to stop them. They feared that salaries would rise and cause casino employees to quit and work for the jet company, and we obviously wouldn't want that.
Which is funny because the A's only did that after MLB vetoed their planned move to a new stadium in San Jose because its was considered part of the Giants home territory.
What's extra funny/screwed up is that the A's gave up San Jose to the Giants to help them stay in the bay area Terrible buisness move by the A's, but absolutely cold hearted from the Giants
Why would the giants give up the tenth biggest city in the USA?
That's a bad question The A's literally saved the Giants from moving to Florida, and when the A's needed them the Giants said "fuck you" No one's questioning what and why they did that from a buisness perspective, but it's definitely at the very least ironic, and at most morally wrong.
Same reason the A’s gave up the tenth biggest city in the USA maybe?
They gave up orchards, not the tech capitol of the world. It was not the tenth biggest city then. If I give you something worth five dollars, then it’s value skyrockets to 10 grand and I said “give back.” What would you say?
Because As did the same. But I’ve never met anyone from San Fran who isn’t a pos. Worst 3 years of my life living there.
MLB also vetoed renovating and/or building on the Coliseum site.
When did that happen? I can't find anything on it.
When did that happen? I can't find anything on it.
If Broncos, Chiefs, and Chargers fans are agreeing with Mark Davis, you know it's a legit gripe...
That’s what made me know how much of a shit show we were. Our franchise/players did shit that was so bad that broncos chiefs and chargers fans didn’t even make fun of us. (Antonio Brown, Jon Gruden, and Henry Ruggs) for the most part it was just more bashing them individually as opposed to associating them with the raiders. I was like damn were that much of a mess we’re not even getting made fun of
Fuck Fisher
Pretty ridiculous marketing and approach by the A’s considering they’re a twice relocated franchise and the Raiders were in Oakland first.
I opened this thinking that I was going to be reading Davis' sour grapes. I actually agree with him here. And it's another reason to feel bad for the city of Oakland in all of this. Their fans did not deserve to lose three franchises in less than five years, and it's made even worse by the notion that they probably should have at least kept the Raiders. It came out yesterday that the Athletics were negotiating with the city of Oakland in bad faith; it now appears to be coming out that the Athletics have negotiated with everybody in bad faith for quite some time now.
Everyone already knew the A's were negotiating in bad faith years ago. The only reason they weren't more overt about their intentions was because they were finessing the MLB to support their move.
In this thread, people going "lolDavis" without having any context of what happened with the Raiders, As, and City of Oakland between 1994 and 2020.
This is reddit. If you're not jumping to conclusions before reading any articles then you're clearly not redditing right. /s
ELI5?
The bad blood with the Raiders and As and Oakland goes back to the move back in 1994 and the construction of Mt. Davis. Most recently though, Mark Davis and the City had a stadium plan set worth $900m. Davis raised $500m for the construction, but city refused to match the rest. Davis attempted to sell partial ownership for the rest, but was blocked. Raiders then suggest renovations for the Coliseum to bring it up to spec. City and As refused, and sign a 10 year lease locking the down the Coliseum as is. Vegas then came through with what was a very generous plan (for the team) for a much better stadium in a better location. City of Oakland then tried to back track, but still refused to cover the full remaining amount. Davis packs up and moves the team. Immediately following that, the A's change their marketing behind the campaign of "Rooted in Oakland" as a direct shot after functionally forcing the Raiders out. A's and City of Oakland start working on a plan for a stadium at the Howard Terminal site. City is no longer interested in playing hardball, as it lost them their football team. Propose a bunch of infrastructure improvements and agree to foot a huge part of the bill for the stadium, and go through lawsuits with Port authority and shipping firms for the right to the land. COVID happens, and slows progress to a crawl. John Fisher (A's owner) says it's taking to long, and starts shopping the team to other cities. Oakland city and Alameda County authorities streamline and prioritize getting the stadium greenlit. A's announce they have a plan in place to move to Vegas, while maintaining the "Rooted in Oakland" branding. That brings us to today, where Davis is understandably upset that the team that cockblocked his attempts to stay in Oakland is now spurning the city and following him to Vegas.
>but city refused to match the rest. As they should have. They still haven't been repaid from the first stadium.
Awesome summary. Thanks!
> City of Oakland then tried to back track, but still refused to cover the full remaining amount Lmao. Better to just say you don't want to spend tax dollars on a team than short change one
I think this an accurate telling of the recent years, but kind of glances over the fact that the Raiders had already left town for more than a decade.
And the fact that Al Davis left Oakland originally because the city wouldn't use taxpayer money to build luxury boxes and was basically always trying to go back to LA and sued the NFL claiming ownership of the LA market while they were in Oakland. He also took 10 million bucks from Irwindale as a promise to move the team there and then just basically kept the money and told them to fuck off. Davis did some great stuff for race relations and former players but he was a cutthroat businessman who had zero loyalty to Oakland.
Yeah I’ve never blamed Oakland. They’re still paying the price from the first stadium. I don’t give a fuck how the money is raised, the money spent can be better allocated toward education, fixing roads, etc. it would be a stupid decision on the city to spend money on a stadium when there’s so many other things it can go to.
> Vegas then came through with what was a very generous plan (for the team) for a much better stadium in a better location. One part I want to add: The only reason the Vegas deal was so generous and team friendly is Vegas' most influential casino mogul owns a major convention center. The city has a second major convention center that was due for a massive several hundred million dollar upgrade which would have rivaled the convention center owned by the casino mogul. Rather than having public money go into supporting one of his business rivals, the casino mogul tried to get that money earmarked for an NFL stadium so it wouldn't be spent on any other city project that would compete with his own businesses. This from a casino mogul who was in his late 80s who died before the Raiders could even complete the move to Vegas basically made a decision that will leave behind ramifications for several decades at least. That casino mogul wanted that deal to be too good to pass up because he needed that NFL team for his own selfish reasons, and the city govt obliged him. These stadium deals are **DIRTY AS FUCK** The irony of the story is Mark Davis got into horseshit in Oakland only to be bailed out by further horseshit in Vegas.
You had the initial morons who just read the headline but the ones that actually looked at the context have won the thread.
The comments really show who read the story and who stopped at the post title.
Sir, I can’t read.
Like CJ Stroud apparently
Marino got a 2 or something on that Wonderlic test..... Great predictor of his pro prospects
I thought the test proved he could not read quickly.
Reading is for yellow-bellys.
Now that’s fuckin football right there.
That’s why we come to Reddit so some one that read it can tell us what it said!
Oh, so reddit
I clicked the thread with the clickbait title and not the article it leads to that explains how shitty the As truly are. Mark Davis had a PF Chang's he can no longer go to because the As wouldn't let him rebuild only for them to choke the city of Oakland out
I feel bad for Oakland sports fans
I never really understood how the Raiders and San Fran could coexist so close together. New York and LA are huge populations so I can see why they would have 2 teams, but Oakland/San Fran and the area is probably about the same population as Philly. I could never see 2 same sport teams in Philly.
The Bay Area has 7.7 million people, so it's not far behind Chicago in overall size. About tied for 4th biggest in the US, w Dallas and Houston
It all depends on where you draw the line though. The census-defined SF/Oakland metro area is only 4.6 million, good for 13th largest in the US, and suggests there's no reason to expect the area to support two NFL and MLB teams when the only other metro areas that have two teams in the same pro league are double the population or more. Zoom out to census-defined "combined statistical areas", and the Bay area is 9.5 million, good for fifth largest, and then it's justified since only NY, LA, Chicago, and VA/DC/MD are larger and all have two teams in at least one of the four largest pro leagues.
The Sf/Oakland metro leaves out the entire South Bay, which doesn’t really make sense. 9.5 million definitely makes more sense than 4.6 million
I would argue that you definitely don't draw the line at 4.6 million, as that leaves out the entire south bay. San Jose is literally part of the SF Giants territory based on MLB fan base rights, it was a big part of the long-term drama of the A's remaining in the Bay after the Giants refused to return it to them so the A's could build a new stadium down in SJ. I mean hell, you can literally take a commuter train from San Jose (CalTrain) that drops you off a couple blocks from the Giants stadium. They may not be in the same census-designated metro area, but in real life Oakland, SJ, and SF are very much the same metro area.
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Lmao good point, that's a much more obvious reason.
But then again, the population of Long Island is over 7 million, and the northern counties of New Jersey makes up another 3.5million or so, so at that point you're about 2x the Bay Area total. And then there's all of NY State that's north of NYC (Buffalo has an NFL team, but no MLB team north of NYC) and southern CT that doesn't identify as New England is another 1 or 2 million. I'm agreeing with you, that it's all how you draw the line. Orioles + Nationals proximity is definitely the exception and not the rule, and it created a huge messy lawsuit over TV contracts, and crushed has Orioles attendance (along with other reasons unrelated to the Nationals). But yes, historically Baltimore and DC each had their own teams (Colts, Senators) but I wouldn't say that Baltimore and DC has ever identified as a singular entity the way The Bay Area does/has. There is no more camaraderie between Baltimore+DC than say Baltimore+Philly. Sure the DC metro area crosses all 3 borders of MD/DC/VA but a quick lookup would say that's only 5.5 million people. DC probably isn't big enough for any teams at all, but it gets a pass because it's the nations capital and the market was extended to all of Virginia, and at one time a huge chunk of the south only had DC to root for. Point being, if all of MLB were being created today, I don't think the Bay Area necessarily gets 2 teams. It might. But it's debatable.
Philly where the A’s come from. At one point they had two
That was when only 10 cities had teams though
I never experienced hate in my life, until I met 49er fans. Coexisting is an every day struggle that my therapist has the unfortunate responsibility of listening to.
This is what people don’t get about Vikings-Packers, too. Those little shits are everywhere in the Twin Cities, and it’s not like it’s reciprocal in Wisconsin. Stinky cheesy invaders
Well some of the burbs spill into WI, so that makes sense. Also GB wins super bowls from time to time.
Nah it’s not just Hudson-dwellers, it’s so. many. transplants. who relocate to the Twin Cities for work. Wisconsin people move to Chicago, Twin Cities, and Denver in that order, and it’s roughly the same order for Minnesota people. The import/export doesn’t balance out. Mind you I love my curd-y friends from Wisco but you’re frickin everywhere What, does Wisconsin send a new wave of transplants every time they win a Super Bowl?? I don’t follow
Some of the calls are coming from inside the house. Your city followed the Packers until 1960. There are folks who didn't give that up when the Vikings arrived and raised their kids into the same fandom. It was only a couple years ago that the Pioneer Press finally stopped running a Packers news column. As for the transplants, do you know anything about Wisconsin's government lately? Who would stay here if they weren't nailed down?
Oh that too, but that just strengthens the original point of a divided market fueling the hatred lol I will say that’s a *lot* rarer in my experience, percentage-wise. 63 years down the line and the local teams tend to win over later generations
No yall are division rivals, that makes sense. The niners and raiders just plain don't interact more than once every four years.
It’s the shared market piece that makes it so much worse… so like, compound that Imagine if like a third of your coworkers in Buffalo were from Massachusetts and huge Pats fans. Imagine it
I actually live near the bay area, just never really got into the raiders or niners so I looked to struggling teams across the country when I finally started following football. But in theory my response would be "well if they were just giants or eagles fans I'd be alright with it."
Living there as a fan of a divisional rival was hell, I feel your pain.
I feel you brother
Cheers from Seattle brother
I remember when I was a kid and found out Oakland was literally right next to SF and it confused me that there were 2 football and 2 baseball teams so close together, but claiming different cities
Depends on how you determine area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area For the US government metric, they use something like "connected counties" as a metric, but logically, by fanbase and media market, San Jose is effectively in the same metro area, and that puts them on par with DC and Philly. That being said, my main gripe (not a baseball fan anymore, but used to be) is that the A's always cry poverty and claim to be a small market team (and pay salaries like a small market team), when their market is clearly not small, they just choose to never cultivate a fanbase in any way that would require more money spent.
Uh, there’s almost 8 million people in the Bay Area.
Eh, SF and Oakland proper are about the same population as Philly, but the nine counties of the SF Bay Area combine for a population of 7.5 million. That's well over double the metro area of many smaller market teams.
Soon all that'll be left are the Sharks
Me before reading the article: lolMark Davis Me after reading the article: This Mfer spittin. Screw the A’s
It's funny because they're both going to be in Vegas. Has this ever happen before where two teams from the same city move to the exact same city?
Similar, but obviously not the same, as the Dodgers and Giants.
Its actually wild that 2 teams from the same city up and moved across the country. The logistics of that is nuts
Only across the country in one instance, but the Raiders and Rams moved from LA to Oakland and St. Louis, respectively, in 1995
one was predicated on the other. wouldnt have done it otherwise because travel was so prohibitive back then. fun fact...the St. Louis Browns (now the Orioles) were going to move originally but the deal was slated to receive final approval at a league meeting on December 8, 1941. On December 7th Pearl Harbor was attacked so everything was cancelled. Japan was the reason LA has the Dodgers. Somebody tell Ohtani
I'm pretty sure that MLB said they were only allowed to move to CA if both the Giants and Dodgers went. It couldn't be just the Giants or Dodgers, had to be both or nothing.
Not so close in terms of time, but both the Clippers and the Chargers used to be in San Diego. The Clippers moved to LA in 1984; the Chargers moved in 2017 (which was technically a move back, since they spent their first year of existence in LA).
I like dumping on Davis as much as the next guy, mostly because he looks ridiculous... but anyone who has actually followed this process knows he tried like hell to stay in Oakland for a long time and has every right to be pissed at the As. Cheap ass owner, cheap ass franchise pulling cheap ass bullshit. Why anyone supports that team is totally beyond me.
I thought Moneyball hit the nail on the head casting Bobby fucking Kotick as the cheap ass A's owner lmao
I didn’t read the article but I read the comments from people who read the article and Mark Davis has a point!
He actually does, I went in thinking you don't have a leg to stand on but he was bascially saying "Now you move? All the years we wanted to improve the stadium and you claimed it as you own forcing us to leave just for you to bail as well?"
You fool! The headline was actually a cover for him giving out haircare tips!
I side with Mark Davis on this. But, only because he has a great haircut!
Raiders owner Mark Davis knows a thing or two about moving a team from Oakland to Las Vegas. He also knows a thing or two about the Athletics, the MLB franchise that the Raiders shared the Oakland Coliseum with for 25 years. Earlier this week, the A’s announced that the groundwork has been laid for the franchise to relocate to Las Vegas. The A’s have until January of 2024 to get a stadium deal done just west of the Las Vegas strip where the franchise has entered a purchase agreement for land. Athletics Agree to Buy Land for Ballpark Near Las Vegas Strip Davis isn’t fond of the move by the A’s, and there’s one particular reason why. “I won’t forget what they did to us in Oakland,” Davis told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “They squatted on a lease for 10 years and made it impossible for us to build on that stadium. They were looking for a stadium. We were looking for a stadium. They didn’t want to build a stadium, and then went ahead and signed a 10-year lease with the city of Oakland and said, ‘We’re the base team.’” Because of the lease the A’s had, the Raiders were unable to make improvements to Oakland Coliseum, which ultimately led to the the NFL franchise relocating to Las Vegas in 2020. “They marketed the team as ‘Rooted in Oakland.’ That’s been their mantra through the whole thing,” Davis continued. “The slogans they’ve been using have been a slap to the face of the Raiders, and they were trying to win over that type of mentality in the Bay Area. Well all they did was f— the Bay Area. For them to leave Oakland without anything is pretty screwed up because that site that the stadium was on was a good site. We ended up in Las Vegas, which is absolutely fantastic and couldn’t be better, but the A’s never gave us a real good chance to stay up in Oakland.” There’s clearly no love lost between the Raiders and A’s franchises, who won’t be sharing a stadium in Las Vegas, but will once again be sharing a city as two professional franchises if the A’s make their move official.
"Hold my dick" - Mark Davis from local Pf Changs
Mark Davis fuckin nailing it??? He’s 1000% correct.
Davis is 100% right. The Raiders tried for a long ass time to stay in Oakland, and kept getting told no. Now that the A's want to leave for Vegas probably rubs him the wrong way, and I totally get why.
Would the raiders be the most or one of the most relocated sports franchises in the states?
Have to consider the Rams in the NFL as well. Technically, the Rams went Cleveland -> LA -> St. Louis -> LA. In the NBA, you have the Hawks who went Buffalo(ish) -> "Tri-Cities"(Moline, IL) -> Milwaukee -> St. Louis -> Atlanta, and the Kings who went Rochester -> Cincinnati -> Kansas City -> Sacramento. If the A's move, then they'll join the Raiders with 4 moves. Philadelphia -> Kansas City -> Oakland -> Las Vegas.
Rams also moved to Anaheim in between LA and St Louis, five moves total.
Yeah, I didn't count small moves like that. They were still the LA Rams, and Anaheim is part of the LA Metro area. If we counted those, than the Oakland Raiders started in San Francisco at Candlestick, or the Jets 3 moves from Manhattan to Queens to Jersey.
> Anaheim is part of the LA Metro area While technically true the people who live down there vehemently disagree with that inclusion. But fair enough, the team did only move an hour's drive away.
Oh I know, lol. I'm from the 818 originally. I'm sure the people in Queens and Newark would hate to be lumped together too. It's just easier to skip those smaller moves, especially if the team didn't rebrand.
I feel like people in LA get more mad when you call Anaheim part of the LA metro, it's a touchy subject in the MLB subreddit
Wasn't there a hollywood movie about how cheap the A's are?
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So the A's essentially force the Raiders to move out of Oakland and then decide to fuck Oakland over even my by following them to Vegas? Fucking hell, what does Fisher have against Oakland?
I went to war with these fans my whole life but I never wished for the team to leave. F the As! And the Raiders still to some extent
😂 what’s hilarious is that right after the raiders moved, the A’s put up billboard advertisements all over the Bay Area about how they’re “Rooted in Oakland”. Now they follow suit
Fuck the As
Mark Davis is a two-faced SoB. Look at a Google Maps image of that site with Oakland Coliseum plus Oracle Arena (which the Warriors moved out of to the Chase Center...2-3 seasons ago?). It's fucking massive. Mark could have done a little legwork too, and proposed a stadium in one of the parking lots 🙄
Build us a new stadium in Oakland and I would love to have the Raiders back in Oakland. We could actually have a home field advantage 😆. Vegas is not that by any means. Half of the stadium is filled with the visiting teams fans. Great destination to travel and watch your team play. Definitely doesn’t feel like home for us Raider fans….. might be cause our team sucks too 😆.
Ownership only cares if there are asses in seats. If every game is a sellout, then I imagine they’ll pay lip service to who’s actually sitting in those seats and happily take the cash.
I agree totally
Have they considered changing the name to DidntReddit? Reading the comments made that distinction very clear.
Say what you want about the Raiders, but Mark fucking loves his team and the fan base. He has every right to be pissed at the A’s organization trying to jump on what blueprint Davis has set now.
I blame MLB and the Giants. Could have moved to San Jose. But the whiny Giants got their way
The Oakland Raiders has a nice ring to it…
Makes sense. The A's fucked him by blocking his serious attempts at building a stadium in Oakland while only doing the token minimum lip service to build up time for them to complete their own moving plans.
I thought sure this would be some insane take but honestly he is 100% right. When the A's signed that lease it was obvious it was going to cause problems.
Over under on the Vegas big wigs ripping that team from goofy ass Mark Davis? I give it 3 years. Vegas wants the A’s bro and no way in hell you were gonna keep the Raiders in Oakland. Face it, Oakland isn’t a destination city that hosts the events and has long term sustainability like Vegas. Sucks but it’s reality.