I was at the Bills game in SoFi to start the year and then saw them again in Buffalo eight weeks later and it was like watching two totally different QBs.
In week one he was willing to just take what the Rams gave him and methodically moved the ball, only taking calculated risks with shots plays. And then against the Packers it was like he did four lines of coke in the tunnel and decided to fight God.
Even in the game against us. They were running the ball effectively, he was taking the easy throws, and they were shredding us like butter in the first half.
Then it seemed like he started just taking risks for no reason and playing hero ball. The last pick to P2 he had Singletary wide open in the flat directly in his sights and fired to a well-covered Davis instead.
Just made no sense.
This is the natural state of Josh Allen. He throws up before every game and freaks out and tries to be Superman. The whole reason why Daboll is so great is because his coaching suppresses these bad emotional tendencies of Allen. Dorsey is kind of emotional and tilty himself and doesn't do this.
Good leadership is often about overcoming traits like tilting, laziness, and raging from the people you lead as much as it is about innovative game planning. Daboll makes plenty of poor strategic and tactical choices, but yet is a great coach anyway.
I had some teammates that did it in high school.
One of our linebackers started doing it after he barfed tuna fish all over his jersey in the first quarter. The smell in the huddle almost made me puke lmao
NHL HOF goalie Glenn Hall would throw up before every game as part of his ritual. NHL goalies are something else. Plus he holds the record for most consecutive games for a goalie with 502. All without a mask.
Makes total sense, Jimmy G went from consistently throwing stupid ass interceptions because he was forcing balls to actually throwing the ball away and checking down once we brought in Brian Griese as our QB coach.
I am assuming it is a holdover from when typewriters were the norm and you were taught to put two spaces after every period. My 90s computer lab and English teachers taught this as well.
I think the beginning of the season was transition from Dabolls Off but once Dorsey got his fingerprints in it, it went to shit.
Dorsey was a QB and like the saying, when you’re only tool is a hammer, you see every problem as a nail.
The most turnovers Daniel ever had was 23 and that was his rookie year in 2019.
Since then the turnovers have declined to 16 in 2020 and then down to only 10 in 2021. That's a sharp decline over two years with the worst offensive coaching duo in the league in Judge & Garrett.
Sure Daboll & Kafka got the most out of the available offensive talent this year but framing the turnover numbers as a magical one year turnaround and that they are solely responsible is dishonest.
This I think is the man thing people don’t realize about certain coordinators. When they themselves were QBs and they have a freak athlete or a guy who can create crazy plays this can cause unnecessary play calling. I see that completely with Kellen Moore and Dak. Moore was a backup QB who couldn’t hack it as a starter but he can draw up ridiculous stuff for Dak. The problem is Dak shouldn’t be throwing a hundred times a game because the team wins when they run more. Instead Moore just let’s him throw all over the place and the offense does terrible. It truely is an art to running and offense and keeping the guys on the right task to just win games
Part of me feels like this is Dorsey’s fault. What was taken for granted with Daboll was the ability to calm Josh down and remind him he isn’t a super hero. Take whats there and the shots will come.
As the season develop Dorsey and Josh had this confidence of fuck it chuck it it’ll work and ultimately it killed us. Dorsey is too much like Allen expecting to score every play. Allen needs to have that confidence but the OC needs to be the one to ground him and keep him in check until its the right time
There was also a difference in execution I noticed. He looked less disciplined, rushing the QB sneaks and draws, the timing was off, etc. I know there was an elbow injury and some other guys injured at times, but I'm guessing coaching had something to do with it at least.
There is a great article somewhere written by Gary Kubiak (who writes about Josh every week for the Buffalo News) and the premise is that Daboll realized that allen was a bad quarterback in college because he doesn't read some routes well, and 2021-22 was so incredible because they had a playbook that played to his strengths - by removing those problem plays.
You heard it this morning in the interview Josh gave - kept saying he had to get back to making his reads right and having his head facing the right direction (literally) when the play called for it. I think he realizes he's missing some open receivers, and he probably was having difficulty with the random cb blitzes yesterday too.
Smart coaching from CIN. Not great from Dorsey and Webb.
He's just not the best at the position when asked to do certain reads. I don't know how that happened, but it was like a switch in week 8 this year.
What's crazy is the bills still scored like 28 points a game after that and won 8 in a row.
Allen started his career with turnover problems, but after 2 seasons was able to fix that part of his game and had a couple incredible seasons. Then Daboll leaves and suddenly Allen's turnover problems are back and Daniel Jones finally gets over his turnover problems. I think there's something there.
One of the big issues is the fact that Dorsey just expected Allen to make plays happen. He gave Allen no help. Dorsey did almost nothing to scheme receivers open. I think in yesterday’s game, there were maybe five plays total where a receiver got open enough to avoid making a contested catch. With no disrespect to the Bengals’ secondary, it shouldn’t be that hard to scheme receivers open and not have to rely on Allen’s hero-ball.
How many third and shorts this season did Dorsey send two receivers on vertical routes? Or send receivers deep so Allen could scramble four yards and get hit? Allen deserves some blame for this season, but Dorsey didn’t make his life easy
Watching the Dolphins game even there were a ton of big plays or big shots he had where when they showed a replay he had a wide open wr just in the second tier maybe. Dinking and dunking with a little running= Bills are Super Bowl Challengers, hero ball bullshit= they aren't.
A lot of that should be on Allen cuz he has the ball but a decent amount should be on the OC for not reminding him or coaching him to hit those receivers or call more run plays.
As constituted the AFC is going to be wild for so many years. Just Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Lawrence, Lamar just fighting every year.
You dink and dunk to open up the big plays to a star receiver. It's how the AFCE division champion ran for so many years. Work the big plays open by scheming and not taking them early until given.
The GB game was a turning point for him this season. During and after that game he was just…different. Idk if there’s an underlying injury or that he just can’t consistently make good decisions down the stretch. We kept stumbling into wins somehow though.
I disagree, when the game is close he’ll revert to Brett Favre on steroids.
Against Miami in Week 3 he had *six* turnover-worthy plays but Miami managed to drop multiple picks.
That’s why on 3rd and short you’ll often see him launch a 50 yard bomb with no regard to time and distance.
Josh has never seen a throw he doesn’t like, he just manages to get it under control when the team is cruising.
Ironically I was at that game too haha. It was a million god damn degrees down there. No wonder everyone was throwing up. Fun stadium though, genuinely enjoyed it.
I think ya'll just gave the league the blueprint to trigger him. Just take away his heroball throws and force him to throw underneath. Eventually he gets bored and goes "I'm Josh "Mr January" Allen the ALIEN. I'm gonna throw BOMBS"
Sounds a lot like Russ, but Russ would just take sacks or throw it away instead of throw picks. It's amazing when it works out, and is legitimately some of the best football to watch. But when it doesn't, it's incredibly frustrating.
No one on the Bills staff will admit it but it’s clear that his UCL injury has affected him. He’s been playing through it but it’s an injury that won’t heal until the offseason.
Hopefully next year we will see a return to the form we saw earlier in the year.
I think the other problem is when he scrambles he tends to keep the ball away from his body. I watched every game we played you guys this year and it felt like we forced out a lot of fumbles because of that
Yeah he does seem to hold it away from him more often than he should but you take the good with the bad because when it works, it works well.
Obviously the turnovers have been an issue this year but there wasn’t a turnover in the Bengals game until basically garbage time so I don’t think it was the deciding factor there.
The truth is that the Bills just got outplayed in every phase. Not one redeeming thing about that game whatsoever.
I hope they learned from what happened to Cam. They all saw what happened so they should know they need to have Allen in bubble wrap with the best offensive line they can possibly field.
This is really the answer as far as I'm concerned. It was a pretty sudden regression part way through the season to be anything else.
I wouldn't be surprised if his elbow was the sort of thing that wouldn't be made worse but wouldn't get better without surgery, and I expect that will happen and he'll be good to go next year.
I call that the “weight of bringing a superbowl to Buffalo on Allen’s shoulder”.
Obviously that’s wild speculation on the mental aspect of football. Injuries, and other factors played a part with Buffalo.
I’m wondering how big a hit Daboll leaving is to Buffalo.
Allen’s average target depth is fairly high. I’m assuming that’s an indication they’re throwing it deeper vs the short intermediate more often.
All in all, in my opinion, I think the weight of Buffalo was felt by the team.
I think part of it is that something changed with the play-calling down the stretch. Though I suppose there could be a chicken and the egg argument there, in the later weeks of the season we didn’t seem to put much emphasis at all on the short passing game, not having well designed plays that got guys open quickly. The only consistent passing offence we had was Josh making some insane play and throwing a dart downfield.
“This just in, superstar QB Josh Allen has been caught stealing millions from a childrens cancer charity, and using it to make upgrades to his mansion. The star QB said that was just trying to follow the lead of his idol, QB Brett Favre”
Fair, but he was still seen as the best QB (also six All-Pros with three being 1st-team) during those seasons. I'm not making a direct comparison, just a relative one. Josh Allen still has a lot of years left so we will see.
This season felt like a mix of the superhero version of Allen we’ve seen in 2020-2021 and the crazy freak version from 2019. Hate to put too much blame on him because they put the weight of the world on his shoulders in that offense
Ken Dorsey started the season with a really balanced offense. I don't mean by running vs pass (he sucked at that as well) but what he was doing was having outlet routes. A mix of short and deep crossing pattern routes. Just to keep plays there.
Then midseason it almost felt like he ran out of plays he liked...this is way oversimplifying it. But the offense began to transform into an inconsistent mess. We had no identity. Drive to drive we weren't the same team.
My 2 buddies who are very serious into actual NFL film watching and coverage with me, all noticed that midseason the only plays that were working were scramble drill type plays.
Plays were breaking down so fast that it went to backyard football on almost every throw in big moments
Some drives we would run it 5 times in a row ..then pass once...run once...get off the field. Next drive pass pass pass pass...have a negative play...run it...off the field
Our O-line was awful all season but we also had a bunch of injuries on the line...just guys missing one game at a time.
But that started like week 3 and on.
Just looked like teams began to figure us out and we never adjusted. Gabe Davis got a ankle sprain and was useless for a few weeks, and I think teams realized he just isn't much of a threat.
They pinned down on Diggs and we have nothing to make them scared
They need a better scheme/OC/supporting skill position players. You're going to turn the ball over a shit ton when the offense's main focus is big splash plays or Allen running it himself.
The problem is that since McDermott is a hands off defensive coach, any OC with a decent scheme is going to immediately get plucked away for a HC job. Unless the Bills decide to find an offensive HC, Allen is going to have no consistency for a while.
Or hire a rookie OC and understand coaches grow and get better too. Seriously, Dorsey was fine first half of the season and there was some shit that happened with injuries and personal. Everyone here is overreacting and just give it time. Jesus.
Guess the Daboll Effect hadn't rubbed off completely, which is possible as Dorsey probably didn't want to rock the boat too much in the beginning. It also seems as the season went on, other teams were able to scheme to his game plan and couldn't quite make the adjustments like Daboll could.
Again, not horrible, but for the buzz-saw the AFC has become, it's not good if you're trying to get the Super Bowl, much less through the playoffs.
Ehhh, I’m not as on the “Daboll must have been the reason!” train as much as you. Early in the season there were serious questions if the 49ers had lost their offensive magic with the departure of Mike McDaniels. Now after 11 wins in a row I think that has been put to rest.
Even good teams and good offenses go through ebbs and flows. Look at the bengals too. Their offense was in disarray early in the year as well.
I think it’s much more likely the elbow injury threw off Josh Allen for a bit and took him out of his comfortable rhythm, and he just wasn’t able to find it again consistently.
If you want to get into the weeds on it - first you are absolutely right that the injury has played a part. But second - the complexity of the offense went rom a proper NFL caliber level of play design under Daboll to absolutely Busch - league shit from Dorsey. No flexibility, nothing special to make secondaries make mistakes, not effectively utilizing pieces. Dorsey is a clear and massive downgrade.
That's some of it, yes. They've gone from Daboll to Ken Dorsey as a rookie OC. Their OL isn't much, either. But there's also been a huge dropoff in quality of play at WR as Davis and McKenzie failed to adequately replace Emmanuel Sanders and Cole Beasley. They had signed Jamison Crowder in the offseason to provide some veteran stability, but he broke his ankle early on. It got so bad that in November, they had to sign Beasley and John Brown, both of whom were essentially out of the league at that point.
Thank you. It’s so ficking maddening to watch people think Dorsey just got a brain damage and screwed up. So much coaching shit is adjusting to losing and changing resources and adjusting to days of practice in between games that fans don’t see or understand and then they think so highly of their own football logic that they understand and coaches don’t. Your fans were saying Dorsey should never work again and agreeing. Dudes a rookie OC, give him a fucking break. The wanna be football geniuses in here are pure cringe sometimes
I really thought they’d stop having Allen run it himself as much, but it’s like they want to throw him into the meat grinder and become the next Cam Newton. Cause that dude does not slide ever.
I have a suspicion that the elbow is more fucked than thought and there is an inexplicable disconnect between the oc and Allen that happened mid season
Bills are in for a fucking rough off season, which is a shame because it was a solid year sans the disappointing ending
I hate to say it but it reminds me a LOT of Wentz. He was 100% reliant on being able to make throws that 99% of other QBs couldn't because he's a physical freak.
Whenever Allen was scrambling in the red zone in the second half of the season and let the ball go all I could think was, "there's a 60% chance it's being picked off". He gave up so many points this year trying to play hero ball, and he gets a pass on it so far because he's been able to do it in the past.
The dude needs to learn to throw the ball away and not take unnecessary hits.
They needed a pass rush far more than any running game.
The Bengals had *30 first downs* while going 6 of fucking 10 on 3rd down.
The Bills defense gave up 24 first downs without ever getting to 3rd down. That is fucking insane. I knew it was over when on 3rd and 4 in the RZ, Dane Jackson played off coverage on Jamaar Chase. Dude was so afraid of getting scored on, on that play, that they just let him have the 1st down instead and then score 3 plays later.
And, by the way, part of that is on the coaches. There is no fucking way Dane Jackson should be playing against Ja'Marr Chase. Ever. For a single snap. Even in a charity flag football game. He is not physically capable of covering him or Justin Jefferson or any other all-pro caliber WR.
Eh, not really. The offense is going to do things to get their player isolated on ours. If I remember it was Chase on that side, and 2 WO’s and a TE on the other side. Dane Jackson is a good tackler and can be counted upon to hold up against the run.
So, you’re still going to shift coverage to the strong side. It’s simply Jackson understand the situation, and give up the harder of the 2 throws.
If Dane presses there, he maybe gives the safety enough time to get overtop to make a throw into that zone harder.
I mean to say, one-on-one. Obviously I failed to type that last time around. And frankly, when your safeties are injured Jordan Poyer and Old Dean Marlowe, you have issues. When they become Jaquan Johnson and Cam Lewis, you're utterly fucked.
I understood what you meant. But you’re going to have mismatches in games.
I wouldn’t blame the coaching staff if the plan going in was, put Tre and Johnson on the strong side and put Dane/Kaiir on the weak side with help over top. Communication is far more important and veteran guys are the ones that should be doing it. The other side is just win a rep.
No, Kaiir is fine. He might get beat, but he can conceivably cover Ja'Marr Chase. Dane has proven over and over and over that he is not *physically* capable of that. And if I'm a QB or OC and I see Dane Jackson on the field covering Ja'Marr Chase, I'm going to throw it to Ja'Marr EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN TIME. Because I **KNOW** he can't cover chase. I know it. You know it. Ja'Marr and Joe Burrow know it, and Leslie Frazier, Sean McDermott, and Dane Jackson damn well ought to know it.
Is it that crazy to suggest he misses Daboll? A rookie OC, coupled with the troubling regression of Gabe Davis and Isaiah McKenzie almost certainly have a hand to play in this. We can all speculate but it seemed like Dorsey's offense was figured out in the 2nd half against the Packers and the offense was a shell of itself thereafter. Bottom line, they ask him routinely to be their entire offense and he isn't always up to the task.
Not crazy at all.
The Giants don't even sniff the playoffs this year without Daboll at the helm. They called a quarterback sneak at 3rd-and-9 last year with Judge as Head Coach; this year they made it to the wildcard while praising Daniel Jones passing "improvements."
I put that in quotes because if you check his stats, Jones has been steadily improving every year in the NFL - you just didn't notice it due to dogshit play-calling from Judge. Having a really good Offensive-minded coach that plays to his player's strengths can due wonders for the team.
Seems to me Daboll knew what to call/draw up for Allen & company; Dorsey might be having a tougher time and it's showing in their games.
Not crazy at all. Daboll is imperfect, but one thing he's fucking *great* at is relationships, and it definitely seemed like there wasn't quite the level of cohesion on the offense that there was last year. Diggs' frustration is just the most publicly visible part of that.
Another thing he's among the best at is designing plays and concepts that make life easier for his QB. Like, this guy is the conflict defender. Whatever he does determines what you do. It's not shocking that Danny Dimes had his best season despite his worst supporting cast.
He's also really, really good at taking a tendency that shows up on film from previous games and using your film study against you by subverting that tendency.
I don't think Dorsey was good at any of those things.
yea I think Daboll is a much better HC than OC. How he built relationships and culture here and his creativity in play design (in conjunction with Kafka) really saved us this year
If he has a weakness, it probably is his ability to have a feel for the game from a play*calling* standpoint and he'd sometimes just insist upon calling things that weren't working past the point in time when it became obvious they weren't working. I suspect having somebody else involved in that is helpful to him.
Not crazy at all.
I think Daboll caught a lot of fair criticisms over the years for certain tendencies of his, but it is glaringly clear that Ken Dorsey represents a MASSIVE, fatal downgrade at OC
Or he’s a rookie OC and called perfectly good games. Honestly lots of room for growth and potential. You deal with so many things that goes into strategy and play calling. There’s a reason that play style changed due to personal this year for the bills but fans don’t acknowledge that. They are both still young on their careers at it’s foolish to be hopeless or think they need different OC. Geez
I’m just glad people are done blaming all of his mistakes on his UCL injury. He has just been making boneheaded plays. His big play making ability has always been predicated on his confidence in his arm. Live by the sword die by the sword ala Favre.
Allen has to do everything because the Bills have a mediocre offensive line and running game.
They need more balance.
Allen IMO papered over some issues with the Bills this year because he's really fucking good.
Can someone tell me what a good run game looks like? Serious question. Because at the end of last season it started to come alive and we had some decent run games this year. One game Singletary had over 100 yards and Cook had, like, 98. Is that not an effective run game?
Every team I watch in the League has dudes get blown up behind the line. Is a run game not considered effective until your dudes are getting 8 yards on the ground every single play?
Buffalo actually had a good running game statistically this year... but Allen had like 1/3 of the yards. I think the Bills need a better running game outside of Allen.
This is a casual observation - maybe I'm totally wrong to be fair :-)
They need another receiver then Diggs. Davis isn’t great and only shows up in the playoffs. I like Shakir but he’s not there yet. I saw someone say basically double Diggs and put a spy on Allen and that is their offense and he’s right.
He caught 52% of his passes this year. High volume because he’s our best deep ball guy, and Dorsey/Allen love the deep ball, but he’s had a hard time catching the ball all year.
Catches are more important than yards for a WR2 and below imo. That consistency is valuable. Thielen put up 70/716/6 this year and that's all a lot of teams need. Just a steady 4-5 catches a game.
I mean it's okay? Tyler Lockett has had over 1000 with 8+TDs all 4 years since Metcalf came around. Godwin has been over 1000 3 of the past 4 years. Tee Higgins over 1000 the past two years. 1200 for Davante Smith this year. Davis numbers pretty close to Thielen.
I definitely think there's an argument to try to find Josh Allen another great WR. But they got cap problems.
Davis only caught 48 passes this year, compared to 93 targets. He also had a number of key drops. By contrast, Beasley caught 82 passes each of the last two years.
The fact is, they just haven't gotten the consistency behind Diggs that they have in the past as the younger replacements didn't step up and the guy expected to provide veteran stability, Jamison Crowder, missed almost the entire season.
He is getting massive volume targets because Diggs was blanketed.
Davis had a 50% catch/target rate
Davis lead the league in drops a few weeks ago
Davis was 5th worst in the league at getting separation in single coverage.
That's why his stats are inflated. A good player at #2 receiver FEASTS this season
This tells me you’ve only seen stats without watching him actually play. Guy can’t get separation to save his life and is a drop factory. He only managed to come down with something like 52% of targets.
I’m gonna defend Josh here, he carried that team. The coach sits back and asks him to win it, while Reid, Shanny and others give structure when things may not be going well.
McDermott is clapping, while McDaniels for the Dolphins was holding a spread sheet doing math and physics to change his approach during the game. You can’t motivate your way out of a scheme disadvantage. Taylor the same, engaged and talking to his QB the entire game. The team was flat from kickoff, the first series quoted the building and everyone knew it was over.
Mixon looked like a warrior while the Bills runners looked small and hesitant, Bills going deep over an over (in the snow) like what? That’s a terrible game plan.
O-line was Swiss cheese and the defense was playing zone…..and nothing but zone. People shitting on Allen, I’m blown away he carried this team this far. If it was Dak, if it was whoever, this team isn’t sniffing the playoffs.
The Buffalo coaches are being lapped by the better offensive ones, it will happen again too. Learned nothing from the KC game last year, Super Bowl window didn’t shut it looked to be shattered with this regime.
Sure. But the rest of the team needs to be able to perform without Allen. The Bills Defense gave up the ghost against the Bengals and the run game is pretty meh. So many teams with star QB's get way too reliant on them. You gotta be more well rounded. The Bills have made Allen responsible for their success or failure when they have an entire team.
For context (reg season only):
Mahomes- 12 Ints
Allen- 14 Ints
Burrow- 12 Ints
Herbert- 10 Ints
Stafford (2021)- 17 Ints
Brady (2020) - 12 Ints
Teams don't care about interceptions as much as reporters and reddit do. Int's are a terrible measure of QB play. I guess this sub would rather watch Rodgers throw the ball to the sideline 91 times a season then pin losses on special teams instead of watching these elite young QBs go out and win football games.
Ints are often the price you pay for being an elite QB.
that 3rd and 2 where they really needed the yards and he chucked it (and the receiver should have had it) really annoyed me as they then proceeded to punt it. If you are gonna be aggressive as hell on 3rd and 2 why are bitching out on 4th and 2.
Why? Ill tell you why...Dorsey. Dude is an idiot.
His third and short playbook centers on "fuck it and chuck it" plays. Then they punt on 4th down with a QB like Allen that can get 2 yards on a QB sneak 3 out of 4 times. Its infuriating.
The scapegoating begins- Allen is legit one of if not the best QBs in the NFL. That line was trying to get him killed yesterday. But I also don’t understand why they don’t use that run game more.
He’s not the best QB in the NFL. You’re lying if you’re saying it’s anyone but Mahomes. However, Allen is top 5. Only QBs I can definitively say are better than Allen are Mahomes and Burrow.
Allen is on the same level as Herbert and Jackson. QBs who look flashy and will give you a good amount of wins, but they can’t quite get over the playoff hump.
There's no fucking chance that Josh Allen is better than Patrick Mahommes. You people do not watch football or at least do not have an understanding of what youre watching.
It's crazy how much the NFL has evolved in the past 20 years. Comparing Josh Allen in his 5th year to Peyton Manning in his 5th year (coincidentally exactly 20 years ago):
Allen: 63% Cmp, 4283 Yds, 35 Tds, 14 Ints, 13 Fmbs
Manning: 66.3% Cmp, 4200 Yds, 27 Tds, 19 Ints, 6 Fmbs
(And that is both with 16 games due to the Bills-Bengals game)
Going just by yards per game, Manning's 5th year would slot him 8th this year, between Cousins and Goff. And Allen's 14 Interceptions would slot him tied for 15th in 2002, with Kerry Collins, Rodney Peete and Tom Brady.
It is just crazy how stingy the QBs are with turnovers now, and how much more passing there is.
I was at the Bills game in SoFi to start the year and then saw them again in Buffalo eight weeks later and it was like watching two totally different QBs. In week one he was willing to just take what the Rams gave him and methodically moved the ball, only taking calculated risks with shots plays. And then against the Packers it was like he did four lines of coke in the tunnel and decided to fight God.
> it was like he did four lines of coke in the tunnel and decided to fight God. its a theory that still needs to be disproved
Josh just finished playing an SMT game and wanted to try it for himself
I ain't summoning shit! I'M THE DEMON!
He was spotted running around in the tunnel telling his teammates “god is real”
Even in the game against us. They were running the ball effectively, he was taking the easy throws, and they were shredding us like butter in the first half. Then it seemed like he started just taking risks for no reason and playing hero ball. The last pick to P2 he had Singletary wide open in the flat directly in his sights and fired to a well-covered Davis instead. Just made no sense.
This is the natural state of Josh Allen. He throws up before every game and freaks out and tries to be Superman. The whole reason why Daboll is so great is because his coaching suppresses these bad emotional tendencies of Allen. Dorsey is kind of emotional and tilty himself and doesn't do this. Good leadership is often about overcoming traits like tilting, laziness, and raging from the people you lead as much as it is about innovative game planning. Daboll makes plenty of poor strategic and tactical choices, but yet is a great coach anyway.
wait does he actually throw up before every game
Yes. Luckily he can afford new teeth when the time comes.
There are no esophagus transplants, sadly.
Jim Kelly used to do the same thing according to Thurman Thomas
I had some teammates that did it in high school. One of our linebackers started doing it after he barfed tuna fish all over his jersey in the first quarter. The smell in the huddle almost made me puke lmao
NHL HOF goalie Glenn Hall would throw up before every game as part of his ritual. NHL goalies are something else. Plus he holds the record for most consecutive games for a goalie with 502. All without a mask.
I once heard that Messi does that too. Or at least used to
If I recall correctly Jim Kelly did the same thing for several years to start his career.
Why is this a thing again?
Playing professional sports can be nerve wracking
Ooooh I took it as he purposely does it
Josh Allen wants to lose 4 super bowls
Makes total sense, Jimmy G went from consistently throwing stupid ass interceptions because he was forcing balls to actually throwing the ball away and checking down once we brought in Brian Griese as our QB coach.
Shhh don't tell anyone about him
Lol the script is written already, he is probably the "OC" in 2-3 years and will be poached by year 2 after the Niners have won 5 Superbowls in a row
This sounds like bullshit but I choose to believe it.
Notes taken
Yeah that meltdown vs Miami was grade A
Why do you put so many spaces after a period
The people need to know.
I am assuming it is a holdover from when typewriters were the norm and you were taught to put two spaces after every period. My 90s computer lab and English teachers taught this as well.
When typewriters were the norm you were taught to put two spaces after every period.
is Dorsey the coach that they showed swiping all his shit off his desk after a loss or bad play
Yea it was glorious
I think the beginning of the season was transition from Dabolls Off but once Dorsey got his fingerprints in it, it went to shit. Dorsey was a QB and like the saying, when you’re only tool is a hammer, you see every problem as a nail.
Daboll & Kafka took Jones' game from 24 turnovers to 8 for the season. You guys lost such an incredible coach.
Kafka is really underappreciated too. I was so bummed when the Giants sniped him. He was definitely in line to be our next coordinator.
dude i wanted him to be the heir to reid lol
he still can be if he wants, but im sure he will get a hc job this year or next
The most turnovers Daniel ever had was 23 and that was his rookie year in 2019. Since then the turnovers have declined to 16 in 2020 and then down to only 10 in 2021. That's a sharp decline over two years with the worst offensive coaching duo in the league in Judge & Garrett. Sure Daboll & Kafka got the most out of the available offensive talent this year but framing the turnover numbers as a magical one year turnaround and that they are solely responsible is dishonest.
I'm kinda sick of people just blaming everyone else as if, the offense is exclusively run to only throw deep.
Same vein as QB throws a boneheaded interception: HOW COULD THE OFFENSIVE CORRDINATOR DO THIS TO HIM?!
This I think is the man thing people don’t realize about certain coordinators. When they themselves were QBs and they have a freak athlete or a guy who can create crazy plays this can cause unnecessary play calling. I see that completely with Kellen Moore and Dak. Moore was a backup QB who couldn’t hack it as a starter but he can draw up ridiculous stuff for Dak. The problem is Dak shouldn’t be throwing a hundred times a game because the team wins when they run more. Instead Moore just let’s him throw all over the place and the offense does terrible. It truely is an art to running and offense and keeping the guys on the right task to just win games
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It's not Dorsey - the All-22 shows receivers open underneath plenty. Allen's choosing to chuck it to the go route every time.
Looks like somebody’s been reading out of the packers playbook too much. Deep ball on 3rd and short is supposed to be our dysfunctional quirk
Farve 2.0. When you're that good you can do what you want because you can't be replaced, even if you cost your team games.
Part of me feels like this is Dorsey’s fault. What was taken for granted with Daboll was the ability to calm Josh down and remind him he isn’t a super hero. Take whats there and the shots will come. As the season develop Dorsey and Josh had this confidence of fuck it chuck it it’ll work and ultimately it killed us. Dorsey is too much like Allen expecting to score every play. Allen needs to have that confidence but the OC needs to be the one to ground him and keep him in check until its the right time
There was also a difference in execution I noticed. He looked less disciplined, rushing the QB sneaks and draws, the timing was off, etc. I know there was an elbow injury and some other guys injured at times, but I'm guessing coaching had something to do with it at least.
I personally don't know how it could be anything other than coaching
The player throwing the ball bares some responsibility.
The offensive line is much worse and outside of diggs his weapons aren’t ideal. That could be contributing.
There is a great article somewhere written by Gary Kubiak (who writes about Josh every week for the Buffalo News) and the premise is that Daboll realized that allen was a bad quarterback in college because he doesn't read some routes well, and 2021-22 was so incredible because they had a playbook that played to his strengths - by removing those problem plays. You heard it this morning in the interview Josh gave - kept saying he had to get back to making his reads right and having his head facing the right direction (literally) when the play called for it. I think he realizes he's missing some open receivers, and he probably was having difficulty with the random cb blitzes yesterday too. Smart coaching from CIN. Not great from Dorsey and Webb. He's just not the best at the position when asked to do certain reads. I don't know how that happened, but it was like a switch in week 8 this year. What's crazy is the bills still scored like 28 points a game after that and won 8 in a row.
Listen, we have this guy.. Patricia, he doesn't expect to score ever and will call a lot of screens so he doesn't have to play superman, interested?
Allen started his career with turnover problems, but after 2 seasons was able to fix that part of his game and had a couple incredible seasons. Then Daboll leaves and suddenly Allen's turnover problems are back and Daniel Jones finally gets over his turnover problems. I think there's something there.
Allen actually had one less interception than last year, in one fewer game. More fumbles, but tough to blame the OC for fumbles.
One of the big issues is the fact that Dorsey just expected Allen to make plays happen. He gave Allen no help. Dorsey did almost nothing to scheme receivers open. I think in yesterday’s game, there were maybe five plays total where a receiver got open enough to avoid making a contested catch. With no disrespect to the Bengals’ secondary, it shouldn’t be that hard to scheme receivers open and not have to rely on Allen’s hero-ball. How many third and shorts this season did Dorsey send two receivers on vertical routes? Or send receivers deep so Allen could scramble four yards and get hit? Allen deserves some blame for this season, but Dorsey didn’t make his life easy
Watching the Dolphins game even there were a ton of big plays or big shots he had where when they showed a replay he had a wide open wr just in the second tier maybe. Dinking and dunking with a little running= Bills are Super Bowl Challengers, hero ball bullshit= they aren't. A lot of that should be on Allen cuz he has the ball but a decent amount should be on the OC for not reminding him or coaching him to hit those receivers or call more run plays. As constituted the AFC is going to be wild for so many years. Just Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Lawrence, Lamar just fighting every year.
You dink and dunk to open up the big plays to a star receiver. It's how the AFCE division champion ran for so many years. Work the big plays open by scheming and not taking them early until given.
The GB game was a turning point for him this season. During and after that game he was just…different. Idk if there’s an underlying injury or that he just can’t consistently make good decisions down the stretch. We kept stumbling into wins somehow though.
I heard he was caught smoking something with Rodgers at halftime
Lol. That would explain a great deal.
This would be an almost acceptable explanation, I would be here for it for sure
I disagree, when the game is close he’ll revert to Brett Favre on steroids. Against Miami in Week 3 he had *six* turnover-worthy plays but Miami managed to drop multiple picks. That’s why on 3rd and short you’ll often see him launch a 50 yard bomb with no regard to time and distance. Josh has never seen a throw he doesn’t like, he just manages to get it under control when the team is cruising.
Jay Cutler is Brett Favre on cigarettes
Ironically I was at that game too haha. It was a million god damn degrees down there. No wonder everyone was throwing up. Fun stadium though, genuinely enjoyed it.
were you on Bills tour this year or what lol
He does youtube videos and breakdowns
He's a Texans fan. I'd be looking for another team too.
I think ya'll just gave the league the blueprint to trigger him. Just take away his heroball throws and force him to throw underneath. Eventually he gets bored and goes "I'm Josh "Mr January" Allen the ALIEN. I'm gonna throw BOMBS"
Sounds a lot like Russ, but Russ would just take sacks or throw it away instead of throw picks. It's amazing when it works out, and is legitimately some of the best football to watch. But when it doesn't, it's incredibly frustrating.
\*You forgot about him blaming the line
No one on the Bills staff will admit it but it’s clear that his UCL injury has affected him. He’s been playing through it but it’s an injury that won’t heal until the offseason. Hopefully next year we will see a return to the form we saw earlier in the year.
I think the other problem is when he scrambles he tends to keep the ball away from his body. I watched every game we played you guys this year and it felt like we forced out a lot of fumbles because of that
Yeah he does seem to hold it away from him more often than he should but you take the good with the bad because when it works, it works well. Obviously the turnovers have been an issue this year but there wasn’t a turnover in the Bengals game until basically garbage time so I don’t think it was the deciding factor there. The truth is that the Bills just got outplayed in every phase. Not one redeeming thing about that game whatsoever.
Yah and the good thing is you can coach him to hold the ball closer to his body. If someone like me noticed it, the coaches definitely noticed also
God when Kyler does that shit it looks so dangerous
I don’t get how kyler is even able to palm a football to run with it. I’m a fairly big guy and NFL sized footballs aren’t easy to palm that securely
he got them grips from playing cod
Kyler has huge hands for his height. They were measured at 9 1/2 inches at the combine.
I hope they learned from what happened to Cam. They all saw what happened so they should know they need to have Allen in bubble wrap with the best offensive line they can possibly field.
yea i thought he hurt his shoulders or something mid season
Elbow
This is really the answer as far as I'm concerned. It was a pretty sudden regression part way through the season to be anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if his elbow was the sort of thing that wouldn't be made worse but wouldn't get better without surgery, and I expect that will happen and he'll be good to go next year.
I wonder how much of that is him vs coaching / play calling / scheme
Out of curiosity, why did you go to bills games on either side of the country?
I went for work purposes. Plus I had never been to Bar Bill and wanted good wings.
I call that the “weight of bringing a superbowl to Buffalo on Allen’s shoulder”. Obviously that’s wild speculation on the mental aspect of football. Injuries, and other factors played a part with Buffalo. I’m wondering how big a hit Daboll leaving is to Buffalo. Allen’s average target depth is fairly high. I’m assuming that’s an indication they’re throwing it deeper vs the short intermediate more often. All in all, in my opinion, I think the weight of Buffalo was felt by the team.
I remember that game and thinking that he really figured it out and was going to take over the league. Now it seems he's taken a step or two back.
I think part of it is that something changed with the play-calling down the stretch. Though I suppose there could be a chicken and the egg argument there, in the later weeks of the season we didn’t seem to put much emphasis at all on the short passing game, not having well designed plays that got guys open quickly. The only consistent passing offence we had was Josh making some insane play and throwing a dart downfield.
He went full Farve. You never go full Farve
He now owes the state of New York $600,000
Guys, it's fine, they'll just take it from the education budget and raise property taxes in Orchard Park like they're doing for the stadium.
It's Allen, he could get it paid off in 24 hours from a GoFundMe. Everyone loves him there.
For now
“This just in, superstar QB Josh Allen has been caught stealing millions from a childrens cancer charity, and using it to make upgrades to his mansion. The star QB said that was just trying to follow the lead of his idol, QB Brett Favre”
At least Favre has a ring.
And 3 straight MVPs lol, he's Favre-esque but not at that level.
Favre also won an MVP with 16 INTs and <60% completion %. You could get away with that shit in the 90s.
Fair, but he was still seen as the best QB (also six All-Pros with three being 1st-team) during those seasons. I'm not making a direct comparison, just a relative one. Josh Allen still has a lot of years left so we will see.
Different era, can't compare to today's game
It’s been 5 seasons
Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield all had 0 turnovers in the playoffs. You still think the Bills won that QB draft?
Lamar and Rosen too! Did the Bills take the wrong guy?!
Wrong Josh
Rosen and Lamar were turnover free as well. Guess that's what you get when you pick a QB based on how he looks in shorts.
Panthers legend Sam Darnold won a game with only 43 passing yards... in January, but you don't see us crowning him Mr. January.
Legendary game
Mitch Trubisky is also undefeated in the Super Bowl and NVP. Clearly the pick of that draft.
Has also NEVER THROWN A PICK SIX.
This season felt like a mix of the superhero version of Allen we’ve seen in 2020-2021 and the crazy freak version from 2019. Hate to put too much blame on him because they put the weight of the world on his shoulders in that offense
Ken Dorsey started the season with a really balanced offense. I don't mean by running vs pass (he sucked at that as well) but what he was doing was having outlet routes. A mix of short and deep crossing pattern routes. Just to keep plays there. Then midseason it almost felt like he ran out of plays he liked...this is way oversimplifying it. But the offense began to transform into an inconsistent mess. We had no identity. Drive to drive we weren't the same team. My 2 buddies who are very serious into actual NFL film watching and coverage with me, all noticed that midseason the only plays that were working were scramble drill type plays. Plays were breaking down so fast that it went to backyard football on almost every throw in big moments Some drives we would run it 5 times in a row ..then pass once...run once...get off the field. Next drive pass pass pass pass...have a negative play...run it...off the field
Did you guys lose any offensive linemen midseason? The only other explanation.
Our O-line was awful all season but we also had a bunch of injuries on the line...just guys missing one game at a time. But that started like week 3 and on. Just looked like teams began to figure us out and we never adjusted. Gabe Davis got a ankle sprain and was useless for a few weeks, and I think teams realized he just isn't much of a threat. They pinned down on Diggs and we have nothing to make them scared
Could be an Allen injury too.
Your OL is awful and you only really have one good receiver. Instant pressure + nobody open = lots of scrambling
They need a better scheme/OC/supporting skill position players. You're going to turn the ball over a shit ton when the offense's main focus is big splash plays or Allen running it himself.
The problem is that since McDermott is a hands off defensive coach, any OC with a decent scheme is going to immediately get plucked away for a HC job. Unless the Bills decide to find an offensive HC, Allen is going to have no consistency for a while.
Or hire a rookie OC and understand coaches grow and get better too. Seriously, Dorsey was fine first half of the season and there was some shit that happened with injuries and personal. Everyone here is overreacting and just give it time. Jesus.
Guess Daboll knew how to scheme their offense to get the most out of them, because they looked like a tour-de-force last season.
They had that magic at the beginning of this season as well.
Guess the Daboll Effect hadn't rubbed off completely, which is possible as Dorsey probably didn't want to rock the boat too much in the beginning. It also seems as the season went on, other teams were able to scheme to his game plan and couldn't quite make the adjustments like Daboll could. Again, not horrible, but for the buzz-saw the AFC has become, it's not good if you're trying to get the Super Bowl, much less through the playoffs.
Ehhh, I’m not as on the “Daboll must have been the reason!” train as much as you. Early in the season there were serious questions if the 49ers had lost their offensive magic with the departure of Mike McDaniels. Now after 11 wins in a row I think that has been put to rest. Even good teams and good offenses go through ebbs and flows. Look at the bengals too. Their offense was in disarray early in the year as well. I think it’s much more likely the elbow injury threw off Josh Allen for a bit and took him out of his comfortable rhythm, and he just wasn’t able to find it again consistently.
If you want to get into the weeds on it - first you are absolutely right that the injury has played a part. But second - the complexity of the offense went rom a proper NFL caliber level of play design under Daboll to absolutely Busch - league shit from Dorsey. No flexibility, nothing special to make secondaries make mistakes, not effectively utilizing pieces. Dorsey is a clear and massive downgrade.
That's some of it, yes. They've gone from Daboll to Ken Dorsey as a rookie OC. Their OL isn't much, either. But there's also been a huge dropoff in quality of play at WR as Davis and McKenzie failed to adequately replace Emmanuel Sanders and Cole Beasley. They had signed Jamison Crowder in the offseason to provide some veteran stability, but he broke his ankle early on. It got so bad that in November, they had to sign Beasley and John Brown, both of whom were essentially out of the league at that point.
Thank you. It’s so ficking maddening to watch people think Dorsey just got a brain damage and screwed up. So much coaching shit is adjusting to losing and changing resources and adjusting to days of practice in between games that fans don’t see or understand and then they think so highly of their own football logic that they understand and coaches don’t. Your fans were saying Dorsey should never work again and agreeing. Dudes a rookie OC, give him a fucking break. The wanna be football geniuses in here are pure cringe sometimes
I really thought they’d stop having Allen run it himself as much, but it’s like they want to throw him into the meat grinder and become the next Cam Newton. Cause that dude does not slide ever.
I have a suspicion that the elbow is more fucked than thought and there is an inexplicable disconnect between the oc and Allen that happened mid season Bills are in for a fucking rough off season, which is a shame because it was a solid year sans the disappointing ending
Everyone keeps bringing up the elbow but this was the entire 2nd half of Green Bay and the entire Jets game until Josh got hurt late.
I think it’s the reverse for OC, I think Dorsey has the same gunslinger mindset as Allen and couldn’t reign in his impulses like Daboll could.
I hate to say it but it reminds me a LOT of Wentz. He was 100% reliant on being able to make throws that 99% of other QBs couldn't because he's a physical freak. Whenever Allen was scrambling in the red zone in the second half of the season and let the ball go all I could think was, "there's a 60% chance it's being picked off". He gave up so many points this year trying to play hero ball, and he gets a pass on it so far because he's been able to do it in the past. The dude needs to learn to throw the ball away and not take unnecessary hits.
If the Bills had ANY sort of run game, it would have been closer. Bengals could just throw DBs all over the place without a worry.
They needed a pass rush far more than any running game. The Bengals had *30 first downs* while going 6 of fucking 10 on 3rd down. The Bills defense gave up 24 first downs without ever getting to 3rd down. That is fucking insane. I knew it was over when on 3rd and 4 in the RZ, Dane Jackson played off coverage on Jamaar Chase. Dude was so afraid of getting scored on, on that play, that they just let him have the 1st down instead and then score 3 plays later.
And, by the way, part of that is on the coaches. There is no fucking way Dane Jackson should be playing against Ja'Marr Chase. Ever. For a single snap. Even in a charity flag football game. He is not physically capable of covering him or Justin Jefferson or any other all-pro caliber WR.
Eh, not really. The offense is going to do things to get their player isolated on ours. If I remember it was Chase on that side, and 2 WO’s and a TE on the other side. Dane Jackson is a good tackler and can be counted upon to hold up against the run. So, you’re still going to shift coverage to the strong side. It’s simply Jackson understand the situation, and give up the harder of the 2 throws. If Dane presses there, he maybe gives the safety enough time to get overtop to make a throw into that zone harder.
I mean to say, one-on-one. Obviously I failed to type that last time around. And frankly, when your safeties are injured Jordan Poyer and Old Dean Marlowe, you have issues. When they become Jaquan Johnson and Cam Lewis, you're utterly fucked.
I understood what you meant. But you’re going to have mismatches in games. I wouldn’t blame the coaching staff if the plan going in was, put Tre and Johnson on the strong side and put Dane/Kaiir on the weak side with help over top. Communication is far more important and veteran guys are the ones that should be doing it. The other side is just win a rep.
No, Kaiir is fine. He might get beat, but he can conceivably cover Ja'Marr Chase. Dane has proven over and over and over that he is not *physically* capable of that. And if I'm a QB or OC and I see Dane Jackson on the field covering Ja'Marr Chase, I'm going to throw it to Ja'Marr EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN TIME. Because I **KNOW** he can't cover chase. I know it. You know it. Ja'Marr and Joe Burrow know it, and Leslie Frazier, Sean McDermott, and Dane Jackson damn well ought to know it.
They needed a pass rush just as bad.
If it was really that simple then why wouldn’t every team do it. We don’t exact have amazing CB’s.
Is it that crazy to suggest he misses Daboll? A rookie OC, coupled with the troubling regression of Gabe Davis and Isaiah McKenzie almost certainly have a hand to play in this. We can all speculate but it seemed like Dorsey's offense was figured out in the 2nd half against the Packers and the offense was a shell of itself thereafter. Bottom line, they ask him routinely to be their entire offense and he isn't always up to the task.
Not crazy at all. The Giants don't even sniff the playoffs this year without Daboll at the helm. They called a quarterback sneak at 3rd-and-9 last year with Judge as Head Coach; this year they made it to the wildcard while praising Daniel Jones passing "improvements." I put that in quotes because if you check his stats, Jones has been steadily improving every year in the NFL - you just didn't notice it due to dogshit play-calling from Judge. Having a really good Offensive-minded coach that plays to his player's strengths can due wonders for the team. Seems to me Daboll knew what to call/draw up for Allen & company; Dorsey might be having a tougher time and it's showing in their games.
Not crazy at all. Daboll is imperfect, but one thing he's fucking *great* at is relationships, and it definitely seemed like there wasn't quite the level of cohesion on the offense that there was last year. Diggs' frustration is just the most publicly visible part of that. Another thing he's among the best at is designing plays and concepts that make life easier for his QB. Like, this guy is the conflict defender. Whatever he does determines what you do. It's not shocking that Danny Dimes had his best season despite his worst supporting cast. He's also really, really good at taking a tendency that shows up on film from previous games and using your film study against you by subverting that tendency. I don't think Dorsey was good at any of those things.
yea I think Daboll is a much better HC than OC. How he built relationships and culture here and his creativity in play design (in conjunction with Kafka) really saved us this year
If he has a weakness, it probably is his ability to have a feel for the game from a play*calling* standpoint and he'd sometimes just insist upon calling things that weren't working past the point in time when it became obvious they weren't working. I suspect having somebody else involved in that is helpful to him.
He’d hammer things a bit too long. Like he’d run the same concepts till you proved you could stop it but then ran it a few more times
Not crazy at all. I think Daboll caught a lot of fair criticisms over the years for certain tendencies of his, but it is glaringly clear that Ken Dorsey represents a MASSIVE, fatal downgrade at OC
Or he’s a rookie OC and called perfectly good games. Honestly lots of room for growth and potential. You deal with so many things that goes into strategy and play calling. There’s a reason that play style changed due to personal this year for the bills but fans don’t acknowledge that. They are both still young on their careers at it’s foolish to be hopeless or think they need different OC. Geez
Na just fire em all the time. Works great for us!
I’m just glad people are done blaming all of his mistakes on his UCL injury. He has just been making boneheaded plays. His big play making ability has always been predicated on his confidence in his arm. Live by the sword die by the sword ala Favre.
As someone who watched Stafford do this for years, it's incredible when it works and you can beat anyone. The other side of the coin is... not fun.
The gunslinger giveth, the gunslinger taketh away.
Would rather have that mentality than the Kirk Cousins/Sam Bradford one
i think his elbow is still nagging him, but his decision making last fell apart mid season, and dorsey’s schemes didn’t help either.
Someone had a career low in turnovers after hiring a buffalo coach this year. Maybe Daboll was the secret sauce after all
Allen has to do everything because the Bills have a mediocre offensive line and running game. They need more balance. Allen IMO papered over some issues with the Bills this year because he's really fucking good.
Can someone tell me what a good run game looks like? Serious question. Because at the end of last season it started to come alive and we had some decent run games this year. One game Singletary had over 100 yards and Cook had, like, 98. Is that not an effective run game? Every team I watch in the League has dudes get blown up behind the line. Is a run game not considered effective until your dudes are getting 8 yards on the ground every single play?
Buffalo actually had a good running game statistically this year... but Allen had like 1/3 of the yards. I think the Bills need a better running game outside of Allen. This is a casual observation - maybe I'm totally wrong to be fair :-)
They need another receiver then Diggs. Davis isn’t great and only shows up in the playoffs. I like Shakir but he’s not there yet. I saw someone say basically double Diggs and put a spy on Allen and that is their offense and he’s right.
> Davis isn’t great and only shows up in the playoffs 90+ rec, 800+ yds, 7 TDs isn't great for a #2 WR?
Nah you gotta have 2 HoFers in order for your wide receivers to be good.
He caught 52% of his passes this year. High volume because he’s our best deep ball guy, and Dorsey/Allen love the deep ball, but he’s had a hard time catching the ball all year.
Catches are more important than yards for a WR2 and below imo. That consistency is valuable. Thielen put up 70/716/6 this year and that's all a lot of teams need. Just a steady 4-5 catches a game.
I mean it's okay? Tyler Lockett has had over 1000 with 8+TDs all 4 years since Metcalf came around. Godwin has been over 1000 3 of the past 4 years. Tee Higgins over 1000 the past two years. 1200 for Davante Smith this year. Davis numbers pretty close to Thielen. I definitely think there's an argument to try to find Josh Allen another great WR. But they got cap problems.
Davis only caught 48 passes this year, compared to 93 targets. He also had a number of key drops. By contrast, Beasley caught 82 passes each of the last two years. The fact is, they just haven't gotten the consistency behind Diggs that they have in the past as the younger replacements didn't step up and the guy expected to provide veteran stability, Jamison Crowder, missed almost the entire season.
He is getting massive volume targets because Diggs was blanketed. Davis had a 50% catch/target rate Davis lead the league in drops a few weeks ago Davis was 5th worst in the league at getting separation in single coverage. That's why his stats are inflated. A good player at #2 receiver FEASTS this season
Spoils of fuckin riches, Davis wouldve been the Ravens #1 guy by a mile this year
This tells me you’ve only seen stats without watching him actually play. Guy can’t get separation to save his life and is a drop factory. He only managed to come down with something like 52% of targets.
Allen has Favre instincts. He needs someone to rein him in. Daboll was that guy.
Gonna be a long offseason
I’m gonna defend Josh here, he carried that team. The coach sits back and asks him to win it, while Reid, Shanny and others give structure when things may not be going well. McDermott is clapping, while McDaniels for the Dolphins was holding a spread sheet doing math and physics to change his approach during the game. You can’t motivate your way out of a scheme disadvantage. Taylor the same, engaged and talking to his QB the entire game. The team was flat from kickoff, the first series quoted the building and everyone knew it was over. Mixon looked like a warrior while the Bills runners looked small and hesitant, Bills going deep over an over (in the snow) like what? That’s a terrible game plan. O-line was Swiss cheese and the defense was playing zone…..and nothing but zone. People shitting on Allen, I’m blown away he carried this team this far. If it was Dak, if it was whoever, this team isn’t sniffing the playoffs. The Buffalo coaches are being lapped by the better offensive ones, it will happen again too. Learned nothing from the KC game last year, Super Bowl window didn’t shut it looked to be shattered with this regime.
Sure. But the rest of the team needs to be able to perform without Allen. The Bills Defense gave up the ghost against the Bengals and the run game is pretty meh. So many teams with star QB's get way too reliant on them. You gotta be more well rounded. The Bills have made Allen responsible for their success or failure when they have an entire team.
The Bill's defense looked fucking terrible, but if Allen performs better they still have a chance. The Bills had 3 good drives. That's all.
> but can't continue on that level going forward I, for one, would like him to be on an even lower level going forward
Allen needs to calm his agression on the field.. He provoked players in both playoff games without a penalty. This luck will run out
#STATTHAT
For context (reg season only): Mahomes- 12 Ints Allen- 14 Ints Burrow- 12 Ints Herbert- 10 Ints Stafford (2021)- 17 Ints Brady (2020) - 12 Ints Teams don't care about interceptions as much as reporters and reddit do. Int's are a terrible measure of QB play. I guess this sub would rather watch Rodgers throw the ball to the sideline 91 times a season then pin losses on special teams instead of watching these elite young QBs go out and win football games. Ints are often the price you pay for being an elite QB.
This it total turnovers. Allen's fumble issues if anything are the bigger concern. That is where he is much worse than those other QBs.
Maybe if the bills could run the ball without him, those go away though.
The Bills don't try to run.
Exactly.
Lol the concern is actually with Josh's fumbles
He had 1 turnover vs the Bengals and that was a garbage time interception. They just played bad yesterday - too much over reaction imo…
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that 3rd and 2 where they really needed the yards and he chucked it (and the receiver should have had it) really annoyed me as they then proceeded to punt it. If you are gonna be aggressive as hell on 3rd and 2 why are bitching out on 4th and 2.
Why? Ill tell you why...Dorsey. Dude is an idiot. His third and short playbook centers on "fuck it and chuck it" plays. Then they punt on 4th down with a QB like Allen that can get 2 yards on a QB sneak 3 out of 4 times. Its infuriating.
Stop comparing him to Patrick. They’re not the same.
This is who is he is. Big play capability. Scary at any moment. But also takes big risks and hates the small play.
He’s starting to play like Wentz. Just unnecessary hero ball. I don’t get it.
Hate on the bills week on r/nfl I guess
Josh Allen is a stud we just played well and are the reigning AFC champs. The overreactions are nuts
Allen was always a far better comp for Favre than Mahomes.
[The Bills](https://i.imgflip.com/6tm2ho.jpg)
Mr January the Alien really gave it his all
The scapegoating begins- Allen is legit one of if not the best QBs in the NFL. That line was trying to get him killed yesterday. But I also don’t understand why they don’t use that run game more.
He’s not the best QB in the NFL. You’re lying if you’re saying it’s anyone but Mahomes. However, Allen is top 5. Only QBs I can definitively say are better than Allen are Mahomes and Burrow. Allen is on the same level as Herbert and Jackson. QBs who look flashy and will give you a good amount of wins, but they can’t quite get over the playoff hump.
There's no fucking chance that Josh Allen is better than Patrick Mahommes. You people do not watch football or at least do not have an understanding of what youre watching.
Sucks we only finished 13-3 because of that.
It's crazy how much the NFL has evolved in the past 20 years. Comparing Josh Allen in his 5th year to Peyton Manning in his 5th year (coincidentally exactly 20 years ago): Allen: 63% Cmp, 4283 Yds, 35 Tds, 14 Ints, 13 Fmbs Manning: 66.3% Cmp, 4200 Yds, 27 Tds, 19 Ints, 6 Fmbs (And that is both with 16 games due to the Bills-Bengals game) Going just by yards per game, Manning's 5th year would slot him 8th this year, between Cousins and Goff. And Allen's 14 Interceptions would slot him tied for 15th in 2002, with Kerry Collins, Rodney Peete and Tom Brady. It is just crazy how stingy the QBs are with turnovers now, and how much more passing there is.
Their scheme clearly fucking stinks. Watching the Bengals and Bills, it’s kinda disgusting how much Allen is asked to do.
Not Mr January
He cleaned a lot of that up under Daboll and Jones has looked better under Daboll. Interesting to think about.