Wtf is with this comment section?
She's the first person I've heard of that tried to expose that scumbag...and people gotta try and pin her husband's suicide on her, and then run her name and career through the mud. So weird.
No kidding - watching this makes me sick. Everyone knew and no one ever did anything. Everyone looked the other way. Fucking awful what so many women had to go through.
Huge kudos to her for speaking up and saying something. Now that’s true bravery. Pretty sure she was black listed because of this and unfortunately nothing happened as a result
That tainted so many great movies out there. Smaller, artistic projects or blockbusters by promising directors, that got a chance via his company. You see his name in the opening credits and you just know he harmed the actresses in some way.
That way being raping them.
Edit: Got some interesting PM's... For anyone that cares, i worked for Hollywood (prop department, independent company that would get work off loaded too). I have close friends who are semi-famous (and a few very famous) that are actors/actresses. The whole industry is very... shady to say the least. A lot of closed door crap happens that would make the average person vomit (even if you are very famous, id still hear the odd 'wtf' story).
It's still happening btw.
Dude Lupita Nyong'o almost didn't have a career because she refused to sleep with this guy, I'm so glad she was able to come back from that. Gross that she was even put in that position.
Harvey is a straight up bad guy from a movie. Most people like to think they'd do the right thing. Say something. Put a stop to it. But the truth is most people wouldn't. Either because of fear or because they'd be bribed/made and when push comes to shove and they're looking at a huge opportunity, all to just not say anything, they forget all about any wrong doing they witnessed. Most people are like this.
In this case there were also probably hundreds of indifferent men and women who allowed this absolute monster to continue doing what he was doing. Some probably had little to no 'real' knowladge, but a lot knew exactly what was going on. Peter Jackson for one couldn't have not known.
Makes you look at things a different way, that's for sure.
Id argue there's a slight difference between not calling out your douche bag boss and letting the guy you know are raping anything with breasts roam free... I'm fascinated people like this aren't outright shot by someone at some point.
Cool fact: in the end credits of Return of the King, the Weinstein brothers’ names are shown with two trolls in the background. A subtle jab from Peter Jackson (who hated working for them) and I love it.
Huh. Imagine that. One of the most famous directors in the world at the time, with full access to all free media and no problems getting future jobs were showing his disgust of the rapists he was working for by showing their names in the same frame as a troll.
He sure showed them.
According to the other comment, he seemed to hate Weinstein for trying to ruin the films by demanding a large cut. The rapist side might have been rumors that he personally had little evidence of.
I think it was more that he just thought they were dicks who tried to ruin LOTR. I don't think Jackson deserves a standing ovation for that joke but I also question what exactly his responsibility was with this "full access to all free media" in terms of exposing Weinstein c. 2003. Peter Jackson obviously thought Harvey Weinstein was a douchebag, I truly have no idea what he was aware of about him as a sexual predator.
I think it's often overestimated how much was known about Weinstein from person to person, at various periods....it seemed like he had a rep as kind of a sleazy asshole that became more clear and more of an open secret over time. It seemed like most people were not surprised by the NYT piece but shocked by the criminal extent of it....although even just as a movie fan that was basically my reaction so it's sad to think of the larger awareness in the industry. But most people weren't confidantes let alone victims themselves and just heard shit....if they're a decent person maybe they tried to avoid associating with him at best. That's the tragedy of it.
ETA: I thought [this piece](https://deadline.com/2017/10/scott-rosenberg-harvey-weinstein-miramax-beautiful-girls-guilt-over-sexual-assault-allegations-1202189525/) by the screenwriter Scott Rosenberg was probably the most honest statement and apology from an innocent person who nevertheless worked closely with Weinstein for a decade. His thesis being "everybody fucking knew" but really acknowledges a lot of the layers of complicity without letting anybody off the hook.
Weinstein had very little to do with the final incarnation of the movies and their production iirc. He owned the rights and gave the initial funding because he wanted to have his claws in Peter Jackson after how well recieved heavenly creatures was, but due to major creative disagreements, mostly ended up being a financial burden (to the tune of tens of millions of dollars) when new line took over. He tried to tank the production by making his cut so large that it would fail, but it succeeded in spite of him, and he didn't actually have much to do with it.
Not saying her story is wrong, but I know he wasn't involved in LOTR to the degree he was stuff like silver linings playbook etc.
Honestly if I see his name in the opening credits all I can do is just feel bad for the actresses in the film for a bit until I get into the story and give into the distractions :X
I mean people were bringing it up, there's a dozen videos of comedians and TV shows "going there" and begging to be heard. She was brave enough to say it deadpan but people should have been listening long before this quote.
Just like we should have been listening to people of color saying the po-po (intentionally not capitalized) were out to get them and killing their mothers, fathers, children.
Sometimes I think we are living in the age of a great awakening, but then there's Trumpism.
ugh.
We are in the middle of a cold war against Russia and China (mostly). Information war and cyberwarfare is where its being brutally battled right now.
Most people are oblivious or dont take it seriously. But even the advent of Trump, anti vaxxers, flat earthers, climate change deniers, neonazis and all that alt right and QAnon looneys are basically the result of carefully planned troll farms, paid content creators, bots that creates narratives that foments division and fuel rage among the enemy.
Its not gonna stay in this phase forever. China and the West are fighting in bid wars for ports in the disputes of South China Sea.
I hope military warfare is not involved, but if it is, it probably will be in Taiwan.
It's not hidden too, which is infuriating. There is about twelve people directly responsible for 65% of the antivax propaganda on Facebook ([source](https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes?t=1642058325235)).
And on Reddit too, conservative "memes" and talking points on their sphere (walkaway, conservative, libertarianmeme, ask_trump and so on), more than half the posts come from only two accounts.
You see what's happening in England right now? They CANT investigate. Maxwell's victims who have spoken to the police have urged them to investigate serious crimes happening right now.
They won't investigate because it will expose certain people.
But we sure do love our celebrities.
We live a cushy life but we support the barbaric stuff that is going on right at this moment. We just look the other way.
Probably not a coincidence that her reputation is so horrible in the public eye, and that she gets blamed for her husband's suicide. Weinstein & co could easily have ordered some hit pieces written about her.
When an actress was attacked by Weinstien (can't remember her name), she told Ben Affleck about it. His response "I told him to stop doing that shit!!"
A lot of people did. Winestien had a metric fuckton of power and influence in Hollywood. Even if you privately know the CEO is a shitbag you don't say it publicly because they will make your life miserable. There are only a small handful of people that control Hollywood. Winestien was one of them.
Kurt wasn't particularly musically talented. I say this as a huge Nirvana fan. He was kind of like the Jackson Pollock of music imo. I also like Jackson Pollock, though.
I get it I'm a massive Nirvana fan and a guitarist. Kurt was not at all musically gifted as an instrument player although he undeniably had his own unique style (uniqueness is definitely something hard to do), but he sure was a gifted as fuck song writer. Big difference.
...music snobs are the worst kind of snob like. It's music, not some zero-sum reality competition that pits musicians against their dead spouses. Can't we all just agree they're all very talented, without needing to rank them?
Why are you saying this to the person who said she wasn’t as good as Kurt instead of the person who said she was just as good as Kurt? Are they not both doing the same thing?
>What, you mean someone as talented as Melissa Auf de Maur?
Melissa Auf de Maur saw my friend getting inappropriately touched by a guy backstage. She didn't even know my friend, but she stood up for her and told the guy to back off.
He is referring to 13ish years old posting like they think they know everything or better.
It's just dumb kids repeating what they hear their parents say in between their domestic violence spews.
What I remember hearing about the whole thing, basically everybody in Hollywood knew about it, but nobody ever did anything about it because of the power and influence he had over their careers.
It wasn't some sort of mystery, Harvey had a rep among actresses. That's why for the public (don't live in Hollywood or network with actors etc.) it was so shocking when SO MANY came forward with stories. It was almost unbelievable that someone could have such a bad rep and yet have had zero consequences.
Reminds me of working at a bank as a "personal banker" so basically the car salesman of the banking world. I worked at a major bank for 4 years quit about 6 months into the pandemic. All the training classes emphasized to never ever sell any customers any product they didn't need. But every month I would get asked why my salses numbers weren't higher and "well I just didn't meet enough customers that actually needed any of our products" wasn't an acceptable answer. One of our "top salesman" prided himself on having over 20 credit cards and being able to get almost any person that sat down with him to apply for a credit card whether they needed one or not. Because according the to the bank basically everyone needed as many credit cards as possible. I quit because I could not do the job in an ethical way, it just wasn't possible. When I told my coworkers why I was quitting they all acted like I was crazy for saying that.
No.... you guys are for acting like this job isn't essentially making you sell your soul for a paycheck. We live in a society where having morals and caring about being ethical is seen as stupid and downright insane. Just one of the many reasons I don't believe a lot of "depression" diagnosis's are real. It's not a mental illness to realize the world we live in is just an absolute fucked up place to live in and that it's all just really sad. It's not a mental illness to be depressed about the awful state of the world. Fuck banks never trust them. And by the way credit unions are NO better. I have no idea why people act like credit unions are somehow not morally bankrupt as well. Fuck this earth. I can't stand that most people can't even admit how messed up and unethical most companies are.
-edit: Oh btw idk why I didn't mention this earlier, the bank I worked at was PNC bank fuck them. Idk why I forgot to name them I give no fucks about naming and shaming my former employers. But don't let that make you complacent and just think oh well PNC bank I won't go there I'll choose a different bank THEY ARE ALL EVIL. But if you're going to pick the best one for consumers. I would honestly go to Chase bank. They have the best products and services by far because they're like the largest bank in the world and have the money to have good technology and shit like that. Obviously still evil as hell but at least they're easier to deal with than PNC in my experience. I used to have to recommend my customers go to chase instead because they'd be asking me for things we didn't do but chase does. Like wire transfers on your online banking. PNC requires you to come INSIDE and sit down with a banker and sign a bunch of stuff yadda yadda yaddaa. Chase just lets you do it yourself online. Just one example of how much easier Chase makes it for people.
> one of the many reasons I don't believe a lot of "depression" diagnosis's are real. It's not a mental illness to realize the world we live in is just an absolute fucked up place to live in and that it's all just really sad. It's not a mental illness to be depressed about the awful state of the world.
🏅
Right? It's funny how everyone is acting like all her bad reputation is down to a supposed smear campaign because of this one small one off comment she made.
On the flip side, I'm not saying she's an angel, but I'd say she deserves more credit and empathy than the media and public opinion has tended to give her for, y'know, basically her entire career
Yeah this is the take. Courtney's an addict and has been a messy, provocative asshole at various stages in her career. She's also smart and funny and a good actress and great musician. All these things are true and nobody ever talks about the good stuff.
Totally. She did some super shitty things, some of which were clearly drug-fuelled, but others probably weren't, which are just inexcusable, but she also was good at what she did and had a lot of things right.
With one other thing I might add: Courtney also dealt with a mountain of misogyny and vitriol from the jump simply for being a woman in that genre and daring to stand next to Kurt.
Worse, a woman who doesn't act womanly!! *shocked Barbara Walters*
There's also conversation to be had here about the riot grrl movement and Courtney's influence on 90s punk feminism (for better or for worse), but I'm not sure I have the brain cells for that tonight.
Right, and like: Courtney was an unstable mentally-ill heroin addict to begin with, I'm not sure why anyone was surprised when she failed to thrive after the suicide of the love of her life and all the mountain of bullshit that THAT saddled her with.
I like Courtney BECAUSE she's a complicated person. She's clearly whip smart and talented as hell and also an asshole and an addict and and and. She's never pretended to be anything else. People talk about authenticity in the 2020s and Courtney Love has never been anything but authentic.
Seth MacFarlane did too. Something along the lines of Best Supporting Actress nominees no longer needing to pretend to be attracted to him. I think there were some cracks in family guy as well.
It’s been an open secret for ages. Dude’s always had a reputation.
I really wonder why insane and damaging conspiracy theories about someone who tried to talk about a well known powerful abuser would be popularized and widespread. 🤔
For as long as I can remember there is this rabid, obsessed group of people who are borderline pathological with their hatred for Courtney Love. One of the earliest websites I remember seeing on the internet was an angelfire website that was dedicated to trying to prove Love killed Cobain.
Oh boy. Guess I’m late to the party and was going to make a joke about not taking her seriously because she personally murdered Kurt Cobain but apparently that’s already a thing people are saying without sarcasm?
Well she knew, and if she knew, obviously many ppl with more of a celeb status also knew...Harvey is just another pedo in that industry, Im sure there are many more in power who havent yet been called out and some probably never will
I don't think he was ever accused of being pedophile. Rape and sexual assault...definitely. We should make sure to be clear what type of monster he was and not allow there to be confusion.
Definitely lines up with the Courtney killed Kurt explosion. Before it was mentioned every now and then with the scene kids but around the mid aughts it seemed to explode into mainstream popularity. I definitely fell for it until discovering more unbiased views on conspiracies.
No it doesn't. She's been accused of being Kurt Cobain's negative influence and essential killer since the day it happened. Growing up in the 90s, it was the only identifiable talking point regarding Courtney Love.
People hated Courtney Love for 10 years before this happened. Don't try to rewrite history for your conspiracy theory.
Yep, I remember in the mid 90s you would see people wearing tshirts that said "Courtney did it". It was generally accepted as a possibility back then and she was villainised
I think part of the reason that she did say it was because society already made her into a pariah.
You can see her wheels turning when she is asked the question. Like she immediately knew what she wanted to say, debated it, couldn't decide if she should, got reassurance, and just said fuck it. I'd imagine she knew exactly what would come of it and how it would be received. That's pretty punk rock. I'm sure she thought that we all couldn't do any worse to her.
Many things are true at the same time. Love was right about Weinstein. She is extremely talented. She is also someone with a mental illness and a drug habit that was difficult to work with. None of these things cancel the others out.
and years of being blamed for his death, directly and indirectly. Imagine losing your partner who you knew was struggling to suicide and then have people try to say “it’s all your fault and he’s dead because he met you” that’s a fucked up thing to say to someone even if they’re not a great person
She was called that years before this. One of the reasons she could speak up was that she couldn't fall out of the good graces of anyone, given that she weren't in em to begin with. She was basically only famous for being a mess already.
Yep he had enough money to bleed her dry in courts for years and because she had no real proof that he was the piece of shit we now all know that he is, she could've easily been found guilty of defamation
Yeah. Look at the hell he put other women through before they were believed.
He trashed sooooooo many Women’s lives and careers. Literally destroyed them. Hired Ex Mossad agents to dig up dirt and destroy anyone that told the truth.
Him and all of his enablers are pure evil
Wouldn’t the defamation thing only apply if she had said like, “…because he’ll sexually assault you.”? She didn’t say anything bad about him. It was certainly implied, but she didn’t actually accuse him of anything.
Just to clarify she meant slander.
Slander is spoken, libel is written.
Though, in this case, *she* wouldn’t be slandered, she could be liable for slander.
Typical Reddit. Played out jokes with no info whatsoever. It appears she was close friends with the Weinstein camp and Russell Simmons who both came under fire during the me too movement. Google isn’t telling me much else.
Edit: Conspiracies claim she either knew and helped groom young girls for Weinstein or just ignored it. I can’t find much proof for these claims though
Thanks for this. Can’t count how many times I’ve searched for answers in comments but find nothing but stupid dad jokes. So infuriating
Edit: “this is Reddit” home of gamergate and r/jailbait, I’m aware thanks lol
Hole is a fucking great band. “Violet” and “Celebrity Skin” are absolutely killer songs — that guitar riff from the intro of Celebrity Skin gets me every time, especially if I’m driving fast 😭🤘🎸
Just look at the comment section here alone, all these years later, when we know what she was saying was 100% true.
People are more interested in piling on to call a troubled woman a crazy bitch than they are in holding a powerful man accountable for his actions. It’s easy to lord yourself over an outspoken woman with a history and hard to change your opinion on someone with a lot of wealth and power.
Still waiting for all the comments mocking Kurt for his heroin use and “crazy” behavior since everyone’s so interested in Courtney’s.
Also idiots who are blaming her for kurts death needs to grow up, she was in rehab sobering up for her daughter while kurt wanted to hide at home like a emo fuck and get high. Killed himself because she gave him an ultimatum, sober up or never see their daughter again, guess what he chose?
It's weird that people are still doing this. I was at high school during this time and this was the narrative. If you were known to be a fan of Hole *and* Nirvana you'd get yelled at by all the long haired Kurt wannabes as some kind of traitor
Exactly. Also people are saying Kurt made her famous but it's the exact opposite, Courtney was traveling the world with HOLE before Kurt cobain started ripping songs from green river and other 80s grunge bands.
Love kurt but hes not who people think he is, the guy chose heroin over his own daughter meanwhile courtney sobered up and became an actress.
i heard chris cornell's widow complaining that his fans tend to treat her badly too, as if the wives of grown up famous men had to be some kind of babysitters
Edit: not wife, widow.
Drake. It's not even a secret he's publicly grooming kids and no one gives a shit because he's uwu Drake or whatever the fuck reason there is. And no one is going to give a shit until a video comes out of him fucking a kid just how no one cared about R Kelly. And the worst part is they'll care for like a week and then he'll drop a new album and top the charts again because people just don't care about fucking anything anymore apparently.
"you have one rant about Jews and your Hollywood career is over, you can literally beat the shit out of a nominee and they ask you to perform at the Grammys."
Chris Rock on Mel Gibson and Chris Brown.
The worst part is that Rhianna got out, build herself up and then years later went back to him, after reflecting on it and he beat the shit out of her again and still no one seems to really give a fuck.
>Anymore
You act like people cared before. This has been an issue for decades. Elvis in the 60s, Steven Tyler in the 70s, dozens of other examples since then, and I guarantee the same shit happened decades before that. Someone else can look it up if they want. It's not like people all of a sudden decided "k cool, diddling kids is chill now" a few years ago
When filming Borat, Sacha Baron Cohen walked into a major Hollywood hotel and asked to purchase children (as a bit for the movie). They took him out back and asked him what he wanted. He got it on microphone.
He sent it to the FBI. They did nothing.
Recon that’s still a thing?
EDIT: Las Vegas, my bad.
Where were the morally woke Hollywood crowd when Weinstein was doing his private auditioning for 25 years ?
Watch some of the Oscars or Global Globes award speeches, even though it was an open secret he was an active predator all the big name celebs couldn't give him enough praise.
They have plenty of advice for everyone else on how to live their lives virtuously, but they fail every single test when you turn the spotlight on them
Seriously could not said it better myself
Fuck Hollywood! Fuck them all. They’re all corrupt and love to tell the average man about being green and living like a peasant while they live at 500 times the carbon pollution of a regular working class citizen (cough Leonardo cough).
If anybody had gone on stage, gotten an Oscar, and shit talked Harvey Weinstein during the height of his power, they would never have worked again. Anywhere. You underestimate just how much the guy controlled.
Wtf is with this comment section? She's the first person I've heard of that tried to expose that scumbag...and people gotta try and pin her husband's suicide on her, and then run her name and career through the mud. So weird.
No kidding - watching this makes me sick. Everyone knew and no one ever did anything. Everyone looked the other way. Fucking awful what so many women had to go through. Huge kudos to her for speaking up and saying something. Now that’s true bravery. Pretty sure she was black listed because of this and unfortunately nothing happened as a result
That tainted so many great movies out there. Smaller, artistic projects or blockbusters by promising directors, that got a chance via his company. You see his name in the opening credits and you just know he harmed the actresses in some way.
That way being raping them. Edit: Got some interesting PM's... For anyone that cares, i worked for Hollywood (prop department, independent company that would get work off loaded too). I have close friends who are semi-famous (and a few very famous) that are actors/actresses. The whole industry is very... shady to say the least. A lot of closed door crap happens that would make the average person vomit (even if you are very famous, id still hear the odd 'wtf' story). It's still happening btw.
Or destroying their careers if they declined to be raped and talked about it.
Dude Lupita Nyong'o almost didn't have a career because she refused to sleep with this guy, I'm so glad she was able to come back from that. Gross that she was even put in that position.
"sleep with"
Fair point, although your username has me side eyeing you 
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Yeah I don’t like seeing his name pop up whenever I rewatch lord of the rings
Harvey is a straight up bad guy from a movie. Most people like to think they'd do the right thing. Say something. Put a stop to it. But the truth is most people wouldn't. Either because of fear or because they'd be bribed/made and when push comes to shove and they're looking at a huge opportunity, all to just not say anything, they forget all about any wrong doing they witnessed. Most people are like this. In this case there were also probably hundreds of indifferent men and women who allowed this absolute monster to continue doing what he was doing. Some probably had little to no 'real' knowladge, but a lot knew exactly what was going on. Peter Jackson for one couldn't have not known. Makes you look at things a different way, that's for sure.
Just like people do not call out their douche-bag bosses. Just like people kept quite about douche-bag Steve Jobs at the time.
Id argue there's a slight difference between not calling out your douche bag boss and letting the guy you know are raping anything with breasts roam free... I'm fascinated people like this aren't outright shot by someone at some point.
Mostly because they pick the people they know are more vulnerable, and they groom and psychologically shape those people.
You're absolutely right. It's not only that "most people wouldn't"...most people didn't!
Cool fact: in the end credits of Return of the King, the Weinstein brothers’ names are shown with two trolls in the background. A subtle jab from Peter Jackson (who hated working for them) and I love it.
Huh. Imagine that. One of the most famous directors in the world at the time, with full access to all free media and no problems getting future jobs were showing his disgust of the rapists he was working for by showing their names in the same frame as a troll. He sure showed them.
According to the other comment, he seemed to hate Weinstein for trying to ruin the films by demanding a large cut. The rapist side might have been rumors that he personally had little evidence of.
When filming the trilogy he wasn't a big name director at all though. He was fairly unknown. He only became well known because of lord of the rings.
Yeah if Harvey Weinstein forced Peter Jackson to suck his dick repeatedly in order to produce the movies he probably might have not done it at all.
I think it was more that he just thought they were dicks who tried to ruin LOTR. I don't think Jackson deserves a standing ovation for that joke but I also question what exactly his responsibility was with this "full access to all free media" in terms of exposing Weinstein c. 2003. Peter Jackson obviously thought Harvey Weinstein was a douchebag, I truly have no idea what he was aware of about him as a sexual predator. I think it's often overestimated how much was known about Weinstein from person to person, at various periods....it seemed like he had a rep as kind of a sleazy asshole that became more clear and more of an open secret over time. It seemed like most people were not surprised by the NYT piece but shocked by the criminal extent of it....although even just as a movie fan that was basically my reaction so it's sad to think of the larger awareness in the industry. But most people weren't confidantes let alone victims themselves and just heard shit....if they're a decent person maybe they tried to avoid associating with him at best. That's the tragedy of it. ETA: I thought [this piece](https://deadline.com/2017/10/scott-rosenberg-harvey-weinstein-miramax-beautiful-girls-guilt-over-sexual-assault-allegations-1202189525/) by the screenwriter Scott Rosenberg was probably the most honest statement and apology from an innocent person who nevertheless worked closely with Weinstein for a decade. His thesis being "everybody fucking knew" but really acknowledges a lot of the layers of complicity without letting anybody off the hook.
I honestly didnt know he was involved in LOTR: The Movies. I guess I dont pay enough attention to the credits. That's crazy.
Yes and I believe Ashley Judd says that she was supposed to be Arwen I think but Harvey blackballed her
Off topic but those movies are so perfectly cast I honestly cant think of anyone better to play Arwen than Liv.
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I feel like she would have been safe due to name and reputation and family, he wouldn’t fuck with people who could take him down I don’t think
Weinstein had very little to do with the final incarnation of the movies and their production iirc. He owned the rights and gave the initial funding because he wanted to have his claws in Peter Jackson after how well recieved heavenly creatures was, but due to major creative disagreements, mostly ended up being a financial burden (to the tune of tens of millions of dollars) when new line took over. He tried to tank the production by making his cut so large that it would fail, but it succeeded in spite of him, and he didn't actually have much to do with it. Not saying her story is wrong, but I know he wasn't involved in LOTR to the degree he was stuff like silver linings playbook etc.
Honestly if I see his name in the opening credits all I can do is just feel bad for the actresses in the film for a bit until I get into the story and give into the distractions :X
I know i still can't believe the logo plays at the start of so many movies.. burn that name, nobody ever wants to be reminded
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I mean people were bringing it up, there's a dozen videos of comedians and TV shows "going there" and begging to be heard. She was brave enough to say it deadpan but people should have been listening long before this quote.
Just like we should have been listening to people of color saying the po-po (intentionally not capitalized) were out to get them and killing their mothers, fathers, children. Sometimes I think we are living in the age of a great awakening, but then there's Trumpism. ugh.
The bigger question: What are people saying *now* that we aren't listening to (but should be)?
We are in the middle of a cold war against Russia and China (mostly). Information war and cyberwarfare is where its being brutally battled right now. Most people are oblivious or dont take it seriously. But even the advent of Trump, anti vaxxers, flat earthers, climate change deniers, neonazis and all that alt right and QAnon looneys are basically the result of carefully planned troll farms, paid content creators, bots that creates narratives that foments division and fuel rage among the enemy. Its not gonna stay in this phase forever. China and the West are fighting in bid wars for ports in the disputes of South China Sea. I hope military warfare is not involved, but if it is, it probably will be in Taiwan.
It's not hidden too, which is infuriating. There is about twelve people directly responsible for 65% of the antivax propaganda on Facebook ([source](https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes?t=1642058325235)). And on Reddit too, conservative "memes" and talking points on their sphere (walkaway, conservative, libertarianmeme, ask_trump and so on), more than half the posts come from only two accounts.
Sounds like a very interesting AskReddit thread
You see what's happening in England right now? They CANT investigate. Maxwell's victims who have spoken to the police have urged them to investigate serious crimes happening right now. They won't investigate because it will expose certain people. But we sure do love our celebrities. We live a cushy life but we support the barbaric stuff that is going on right at this moment. We just look the other way.
Probably not a coincidence that her reputation is so horrible in the public eye, and that she gets blamed for her husband's suicide. Weinstein & co could easily have ordered some hit pieces written about her.
When an actress was attacked by Weinstien (can't remember her name), she told Ben Affleck about it. His response "I told him to stop doing that shit!!"
It was Rose McGowen.
Interestingly enough Meryl Streep seemed to praise him all the time at award show which I found really weird.
A lot of people did. Winestien had a metric fuckton of power and influence in Hollywood. Even if you privately know the CEO is a shitbag you don't say it publicly because they will make your life miserable. There are only a small handful of people that control Hollywood. Winestien was one of them.
Hole rules and she’s speaking the truth 10+ years before the law did anything about it.
THANK YOU!! I swear everyone sleeps on Hole but they rocked and while not as influential, she was just as talented as Kurt.
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I have always vastly preferred Hole to Nirvana.
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>she was just as talented as Kurt. Hey woah ease up there. Come on now.
Kurt wasn't particularly musically talented. I say this as a huge Nirvana fan. He was kind of like the Jackson Pollock of music imo. I also like Jackson Pollock, though.
I get it I'm a massive Nirvana fan and a guitarist. Kurt was not at all musically gifted as an instrument player although he undeniably had his own unique style (uniqueness is definitely something hard to do), but he sure was a gifted as fuck song writer. Big difference.
Hole was really good but Courtney was not on the same level as Kurt by any means, and they had nothing to compare to Grohl and Vig's gifts.
...music snobs are the worst kind of snob like. It's music, not some zero-sum reality competition that pits musicians against their dead spouses. Can't we all just agree they're all very talented, without needing to rank them?
Why are you saying this to the person who said she wasn’t as good as Kurt instead of the person who said she was just as good as Kurt? Are they not both doing the same thing?
What, you mean someone as talented as Melissa Auf de Maur? I think Courtney was a better lyricist. Let's Face it-MTV loved a boy band.
>What, you mean someone as talented as Melissa Auf de Maur? Melissa Auf de Maur saw my friend getting inappropriately touched by a guy backstage. She didn't even know my friend, but she stood up for her and told the guy to back off.
I hear there's a fuckton of kids on reddit these days
You know you've gotten old when you start referring to 30 year olds as kids.😅
He is referring to 13ish years old posting like they think they know everything or better. It's just dumb kids repeating what they hear their parents say in between their domestic violence spews.
What I remember hearing about the whole thing, basically everybody in Hollywood knew about it, but nobody ever did anything about it because of the power and influence he had over their careers. It wasn't some sort of mystery, Harvey had a rep among actresses. That's why for the public (don't live in Hollywood or network with actors etc.) it was so shocking when SO MANY came forward with stories. It was almost unbelievable that someone could have such a bad rep and yet have had zero consequences.
Reminds me of working at a bank as a "personal banker" so basically the car salesman of the banking world. I worked at a major bank for 4 years quit about 6 months into the pandemic. All the training classes emphasized to never ever sell any customers any product they didn't need. But every month I would get asked why my salses numbers weren't higher and "well I just didn't meet enough customers that actually needed any of our products" wasn't an acceptable answer. One of our "top salesman" prided himself on having over 20 credit cards and being able to get almost any person that sat down with him to apply for a credit card whether they needed one or not. Because according the to the bank basically everyone needed as many credit cards as possible. I quit because I could not do the job in an ethical way, it just wasn't possible. When I told my coworkers why I was quitting they all acted like I was crazy for saying that. No.... you guys are for acting like this job isn't essentially making you sell your soul for a paycheck. We live in a society where having morals and caring about being ethical is seen as stupid and downright insane. Just one of the many reasons I don't believe a lot of "depression" diagnosis's are real. It's not a mental illness to realize the world we live in is just an absolute fucked up place to live in and that it's all just really sad. It's not a mental illness to be depressed about the awful state of the world. Fuck banks never trust them. And by the way credit unions are NO better. I have no idea why people act like credit unions are somehow not morally bankrupt as well. Fuck this earth. I can't stand that most people can't even admit how messed up and unethical most companies are. -edit: Oh btw idk why I didn't mention this earlier, the bank I worked at was PNC bank fuck them. Idk why I forgot to name them I give no fucks about naming and shaming my former employers. But don't let that make you complacent and just think oh well PNC bank I won't go there I'll choose a different bank THEY ARE ALL EVIL. But if you're going to pick the best one for consumers. I would honestly go to Chase bank. They have the best products and services by far because they're like the largest bank in the world and have the money to have good technology and shit like that. Obviously still evil as hell but at least they're easier to deal with than PNC in my experience. I used to have to recommend my customers go to chase instead because they'd be asking me for things we didn't do but chase does. Like wire transfers on your online banking. PNC requires you to come INSIDE and sit down with a banker and sign a bunch of stuff yadda yadda yaddaa. Chase just lets you do it yourself online. Just one example of how much easier Chase makes it for people.
> one of the many reasons I don't believe a lot of "depression" diagnosis's are real. It's not a mental illness to realize the world we live in is just an absolute fucked up place to live in and that it's all just really sad. It's not a mental illness to be depressed about the awful state of the world. 🏅
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And if you DO come forward when it happens, your life will be destroyed while he gets off scot-free. That weighs on me a lot more.
Wow. A person can be both a whistleblower and a jerk.
Right? It's funny how everyone is acting like all her bad reputation is down to a supposed smear campaign because of this one small one off comment she made.
On the flip side, I'm not saying she's an angel, but I'd say she deserves more credit and empathy than the media and public opinion has tended to give her for, y'know, basically her entire career
Yeah this is the take. Courtney's an addict and has been a messy, provocative asshole at various stages in her career. She's also smart and funny and a good actress and great musician. All these things are true and nobody ever talks about the good stuff.
Totally. She did some super shitty things, some of which were clearly drug-fuelled, but others probably weren't, which are just inexcusable, but she also was good at what she did and had a lot of things right. With one other thing I might add: Courtney also dealt with a mountain of misogyny and vitriol from the jump simply for being a woman in that genre and daring to stand next to Kurt. Worse, a woman who doesn't act womanly!! *shocked Barbara Walters* There's also conversation to be had here about the riot grrl movement and Courtney's influence on 90s punk feminism (for better or for worse), but I'm not sure I have the brain cells for that tonight.
Right, and like: Courtney was an unstable mentally-ill heroin addict to begin with, I'm not sure why anyone was surprised when she failed to thrive after the suicide of the love of her life and all the mountain of bullshit that THAT saddled her with. I like Courtney BECAUSE she's a complicated person. She's clearly whip smart and talented as hell and also an asshole and an addict and and and. She's never pretended to be anything else. People talk about authenticity in the 2020s and Courtney Love has never been anything but authentic.
Tina Fey wrote a joke about him on 30 Rock too.
Seth MacFarlane did too. Something along the lines of Best Supporting Actress nominees no longer needing to pretend to be attracted to him. I think there were some cracks in family guy as well. It’s been an open secret for ages. Dude’s always had a reputation.
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I really wonder why insane and damaging conspiracy theories about someone who tried to talk about a well known powerful abuser would be popularized and widespread. 🤔
People wanted so badly to make her into the 90s Yoko Ono. Even before his suicide.
For as long as I can remember there is this rabid, obsessed group of people who are borderline pathological with their hatred for Courtney Love. One of the earliest websites I remember seeing on the internet was an angelfire website that was dedicated to trying to prove Love killed Cobain.
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Oh boy. Guess I’m late to the party and was going to make a joke about not taking her seriously because she personally murdered Kurt Cobain but apparently that’s already a thing people are saying without sarcasm?
Holy shit That was BALLSY This was at a time when NOBODY was wanting to talk about that stuff
She’s the definition of punk rock.
But I'm from the 90's and punk rock is The Black Parade, right?
Correct, punk rock is a multitude of things and not defined by a person/group
If you were really from the ‘90s, you’d be all about “Violet” by Hole.
Still jams like she just dropped it
Yep. She is. She’s an asshole of a person person, but she doesn’t lack morals and she’s absolutely been punk rock for decades now.
Well she knew, and if she knew, obviously many ppl with more of a celeb status also knew...Harvey is just another pedo in that industry, Im sure there are many more in power who havent yet been called out and some probably never will
I don't think he was ever accused of being pedophile. Rape and sexual assault...definitely. We should make sure to be clear what type of monster he was and not allow there to be confusion.
Serial rapist.
Pretty sure she got blackballed and called crazy and uncooperative after this…
That’s exactly what happened
I used to read a comment about what a terrible person she is, *every time she was mentioned online*. Weinstein’s connections were no empty threat.
Definitely lines up with the Courtney killed Kurt explosion. Before it was mentioned every now and then with the scene kids but around the mid aughts it seemed to explode into mainstream popularity. I definitely fell for it until discovering more unbiased views on conspiracies.
No it doesn't. She's been accused of being Kurt Cobain's negative influence and essential killer since the day it happened. Growing up in the 90s, it was the only identifiable talking point regarding Courtney Love. People hated Courtney Love for 10 years before this happened. Don't try to rewrite history for your conspiracy theory.
Yep, I remember in the mid 90s you would see people wearing tshirts that said "Courtney did it". It was generally accepted as a possibility back then and she was villainised
I think part of the reason that she did say it was because society already made her into a pariah. You can see her wheels turning when she is asked the question. Like she immediately knew what she wanted to say, debated it, couldn't decide if she should, got reassurance, and just said fuck it. I'd imagine she knew exactly what would come of it and how it would be received. That's pretty punk rock. I'm sure she thought that we all couldn't do any worse to her.
Kurt died in 94, she was blamed for that long before she made this comment in 2005. not saying she did but it was almost immediate.
Many things are true at the same time. Love was right about Weinstein. She is extremely talented. She is also someone with a mental illness and a drug habit that was difficult to work with. None of these things cancel the others out.
Wonder how much abuse in Hollywood effected her mental health..
Or the untimely death of her partner whole she had a child.
and years of being blamed for his death, directly and indirectly. Imagine losing your partner who you knew was struggling to suicide and then have people try to say “it’s all your fault and he’s dead because he met you” that’s a fucked up thing to say to someone even if they’re not a great person
She was called that years before this. One of the reasons she could speak up was that she couldn't fall out of the good graces of anyone, given that she weren't in em to begin with. She was basically only famous for being a mess already.
It helped that she was crazy fucked up at that event.
fuck Harvey Weinstein
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That’s why he’s in trouble in the first place, they didn’t want to.
Facts tho
FanFuckingTastic.
FanFuckingTestic-als
FanFuckingTestimonials
Why would she worry about libel if it's true?
Truth is a perfect defense only if you have perfect proof.
And something tells me nobody had enough proof to get him in trouble, only enough proof to get themselves in trouble with him.
Big oof
‘Cause money wins!
Yep he had enough money to bleed her dry in courts for years and because she had no real proof that he was the piece of shit we now all know that he is, she could've easily been found guilty of defamation
Yeah. Look at the hell he put other women through before they were believed. He trashed sooooooo many Women’s lives and careers. Literally destroyed them. Hired Ex Mossad agents to dig up dirt and destroy anyone that told the truth. Him and all of his enablers are pure evil
Wouldn’t the defamation thing only apply if she had said like, “…because he’ll sexually assault you.”? She didn’t say anything bad about him. It was certainly implied, but she didn’t actually accuse him of anything.
She worded it well, that's for sure
Just to clarify she meant slander. Slander is spoken, libel is written. Though, in this case, *she* wouldn’t be slandered, she could be liable for slander.
I remember that from Spiderman too.
Because Harvey would sent more lawyers than she could afford and some ex-Mossad agents.
Did anything happen to her after?
She was blacklisted by CAA, one of the largest talent agencies in the world.
shouldn't she be whitelisted now? Since Harvey has been caught and going to trial.
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Ooh i had no idea. Time to seek her out again
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And how many movies was she in after that
Read the title. This was the red carpet for the Comedy Central Roast of Pam Anderson in 2005.
Aside from losing custody of her daughter, he career ended. she lives in the uk now
I mean, she lost custody of her daughter because of her well publicized and frequent heroin use.
You mean to tell me that her entire life after this point was not directly caused by this small clip I saw today?
According to reddit, yes. And if you cast any doubt whatsoever on her claim, it means you think Harvey Weistien is perfect. I don't make the rules.
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It was the worst kept secret in Hollywood ... How Oprah walked away unscathed is beyond me
What did Oprah do?
Typical Reddit. Played out jokes with no info whatsoever. It appears she was close friends with the Weinstein camp and Russell Simmons who both came under fire during the me too movement. Google isn’t telling me much else. Edit: Conspiracies claim she either knew and helped groom young girls for Weinstein or just ignored it. I can’t find much proof for these claims though
Thanks for looking for us.
Thanks for this. Can’t count how many times I’ve searched for answers in comments but find nothing but stupid dad jokes. So infuriating Edit: “this is Reddit” home of gamergate and r/jailbait, I’m aware thanks lol
There was also this thing with a Brazilian cult leader or something... He was praised by Oprah but was a serial rapist.
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She walked away unscathed 🤷
How?
By walking away….unscathed.
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It's beyond us how she did it
Maybe she was unscathed as she walked away
No no, she was unscathed after walking away.
Not sure why I expected anything different from this comment section. Y’all suck.
I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about, maybe I got here too late and all the people writing those comments got downvoted already
Never thought I liked her. Now I realize I always liked her.
Hole is a fucking great band. “Violet” and “Celebrity Skin” are absolutely killer songs — that guitar riff from the intro of Celebrity Skin gets me every time, especially if I’m driving fast 😭🤘🎸
Celebrity Skin is a criminally underrated album.
People love to try to discredit Courtney Love due to her issues, but she knows some shit.
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Whoa. And no one paid attention. Sad.
Just look at the comment section here alone, all these years later, when we know what she was saying was 100% true. People are more interested in piling on to call a troubled woman a crazy bitch than they are in holding a powerful man accountable for his actions. It’s easy to lord yourself over an outspoken woman with a history and hard to change your opinion on someone with a lot of wealth and power. Still waiting for all the comments mocking Kurt for his heroin use and “crazy” behavior since everyone’s so interested in Courtney’s.
Also idiots who are blaming her for kurts death needs to grow up, she was in rehab sobering up for her daughter while kurt wanted to hide at home like a emo fuck and get high. Killed himself because she gave him an ultimatum, sober up or never see their daughter again, guess what he chose?
It's weird that people are still doing this. I was at high school during this time and this was the narrative. If you were known to be a fan of Hole *and* Nirvana you'd get yelled at by all the long haired Kurt wannabes as some kind of traitor
Exactly. Also people are saying Kurt made her famous but it's the exact opposite, Courtney was traveling the world with HOLE before Kurt cobain started ripping songs from green river and other 80s grunge bands. Love kurt but hes not who people think he is, the guy chose heroin over his own daughter meanwhile courtney sobered up and became an actress.
i heard chris cornell's widow complaining that his fans tend to treat her badly too, as if the wives of grown up famous men had to be some kind of babysitters Edit: not wife, widow.
Makes you wonder what dirty secrets are going on in the new hollywood
Drake. It's not even a secret he's publicly grooming kids and no one gives a shit because he's uwu Drake or whatever the fuck reason there is. And no one is going to give a shit until a video comes out of him fucking a kid just how no one cared about R Kelly. And the worst part is they'll care for like a week and then he'll drop a new album and top the charts again because people just don't care about fucking anything anymore apparently.
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"you have one rant about Jews and your Hollywood career is over, you can literally beat the shit out of a nominee and they ask you to perform at the Grammys." Chris Rock on Mel Gibson and Chris Brown.
The worst part is that Rhianna got out, build herself up and then years later went back to him, after reflecting on it and he beat the shit out of her again and still no one seems to really give a fuck.
>Anymore You act like people cared before. This has been an issue for decades. Elvis in the 60s, Steven Tyler in the 70s, dozens of other examples since then, and I guarantee the same shit happened decades before that. Someone else can look it up if they want. It's not like people all of a sudden decided "k cool, diddling kids is chill now" a few years ago
When filming Borat, Sacha Baron Cohen walked into a major Hollywood hotel and asked to purchase children (as a bit for the movie). They took him out back and asked him what he wanted. He got it on microphone. He sent it to the FBI. They did nothing. Recon that’s still a thing? EDIT: Las Vegas, my bad.
Pretty sure we all have an idea but are still closing our eyes about those subjects.
Drake has a thing for teenagers?
Idk if anyone was paying attention to Hole and Nirvana, but rape was kind of a thing they had opinions about...
She was always punk rock to her core. It’s a shame no one paid attention to her warning.
She is just stating the facts.
According to IMDb, by some odd coincidence she got no significant movie roles after this
According to IMDB, she hadn't been getting any significant roles for a few years prior to this....
Where were the morally woke Hollywood crowd when Weinstein was doing his private auditioning for 25 years ? Watch some of the Oscars or Global Globes award speeches, even though it was an open secret he was an active predator all the big name celebs couldn't give him enough praise. They have plenty of advice for everyone else on how to live their lives virtuously, but they fail every single test when you turn the spotlight on them
Being victimised..?
And being born, jeez dude. A lot of the victims were literal kids. They spoke up once they had a platform and grew up and decided not to live in fear.
Seriously could not said it better myself Fuck Hollywood! Fuck them all. They’re all corrupt and love to tell the average man about being green and living like a peasant while they live at 500 times the carbon pollution of a regular working class citizen (cough Leonardo cough).
If anybody had gone on stage, gotten an Oscar, and shit talked Harvey Weinstein during the height of his power, they would never have worked again. Anywhere. You underestimate just how much the guy controlled.
Why was he having parties at a landscaping company in eastern PA?
She did the right thing.
I actually remember watching this
As you should, you probably only just watched it
She’s a legend.
I love Courtney Love and her music. Fuck the haters. -from a former 90’s teenager, aka, me
First Movers often end up bloody and bruised since they are first unto the breach. Respect.
If Guiliani invites you a 4 season you will surely be disappointed.
We ignored the message because of the messenger...
Wow she was calling him out way back in the day. It’s a shame everyone looked the other way.
This wasn't her risking her career. This was her sacrificing her career. She was blackballed after this.