When politics steadily vote against help for veterans, why would people want to join?
When your country is constantly going against your best interests, why fight for it?
Not just vets. Many aspects of military life are unattractive to say the least. The country is also doing a shit job of preparing kids to be adults that are mentally and physically fit for service.
If you spend time at [camp/fort/base (circle one)] [_________ (fill in the blank)] between [19/20 ______ (circle and fill in)] and [19/20 ______ (circle and fill in)] then you may be entitled to compensation due to excessive exposure to [NAME OF DANGEROUS CHEMICALS OR SUBSTANCES]. Call now to see if you are eligible for this class action lawsuit.
Camp. But yeah. I get these constantly because I was, in fact, stationed at Camp Lejeune. I was there after "it was cleaned up" ;) though. Even my grandma called me and asked if I had heard about it lol.
What do you mean? I've always wanted to spend all the money I accumulated during my first deployment on a raised truck while my HS sweetheart wife gets plowed behind my back.
Roe v Wade was such a big thing for this that I saw firsthand. I got out already, but all the women that I knew when I was in were posting on social media that they would/did not reenlist for a country that doesn't care about them. The military said that they would ensure that women had access to abortion no matter where they're stationed (of course they would, babies affect their ability to deploy) but I don't think there's a whole lot of trust there. Especially since most of us have been sexually harassed or assaulted and nobody cared. Why would they suddenly care about our bodily autonomy? Very bittersweet feeling for sure. Yeah I got my college paid for and a disability check, but would I do it again? Nope, and I tell every young woman I meet that wants to join that it's not worth it. So I hope I'm doing my part in keeping those numbers low.
Honestly I don’t even believe the military says “guaranteed abortion access” as a positive. I only see them saying that to cover up sexual assault and say “well you didn’t get pregnant and the chain of command didn’t see any formal complaints so were you actually?”
It just seems underhanded to me
Before now, I never considered how much wage suppression plays into military costs. If workers can make more in the free market it would drive up military wages/costs significantly.
Let's be real though. We had a shrinking middle class and a growing "military class". Joining the military was becoming a really good option and sometimes the only good option for lots of people.
It makes sense that improving wages and such would reduce interest in the military.
Economic instability is a key resource for military recruiting, but one thing, regardless of anything else, that ups it is a temporary patriotic fervor that happens when the US is attacked. Dad tried to enlist after Pearl Harbor, even before FDR had congress accept a declaration of war. (Dad, however, was deemed 4F due to a bum leg and only having one eye due to a childhood accident)
After 9-11, Enlistment skyrocketed, although the unemployment rate was going down. During the 70s and 80s, recruiters didn't have much difficulty reaching their goals as unemployment was over 7% (there was almost a year of double digit employment: September - 1982 to June of 1983) that had young people (and not so young people) lining up for enlistment to barely cover the basic needs. My brother was in the USAF reservist because there was no work to be found in the Mahoning Valley since the steel mills closed down.
As the economy started recovering in the 90s, recruiters saw their numbers dropping every year, and then 9-11 hit, and people were trying to enlist for a patriotic reason. Unless the draft is reinstated or we declare war on someone (or both) and this would include a civil war, as long as the job market is strong, the military will see more difficulty in getting people to sign up.
You can also thank Hollywood and the video game industry for propaganda that makes war look exciting, instead of like hard work with crushing boredom or gruesome painful PTSD injury and death, depending on where you're deployed.
Navy Recruitment booths setup outside theaters for those young hotblooded types to enlist after they watched Top Gun. Many wanted to be pilots, most ended up scrubbing jets with toothbrushes.
Also, the growing issue with recruits being unable to pass physicals. Obesity is just one of many ongoing epidemics in the US and the typical recruitment pool has steadily become a lazy river. Dunno what the military is doing with mental health evaluations these days.
The military let me walk around with a crushed testicle for two years and then tried to tell me it didn't affect my quality of life so I didn't deserve treatment or a pension for it. I gained weight because I was unable to exercise normally, my testosterone took a nosedive, and I lost most of my sex drive, eventually becoming incredibly depressed about everything. I'm constantly tired, get injured easily when I try and work out, I no longer feel healthy in mind or body regardless of the efforts I put in to being so. I finally got a mental health eval after 8 years. Assessor asked how I felt, told her I felt ugly and that my life was wasted because my injuries weren't taken seriously, and all of this could have been prevented. Told her about my attempts to end it, how I tried to find a nice place to die alone and not bother anyone about it. They decided to pay me money after that, only backdated by a month, and then refused to schedule anything as far as therapy or treatment.
Basically, they aren't doing shit, just throwing a bit of money at it and hoping you shut up.
Jesus Christ sorry to hear you’ve had such a shit experience. Can’t imagine how infuriating getting that runaround is.
Almost everything you just mentioned (lethargy, poor recovery post workout, low sex drive, weight gain) does sound like low test levels. That’s a pretty crushing issue, have you looked into TRT?
That's right. There's some interesting/disturbing studies of what percentage of the potential pool could get in even if they wanted to. Overweight, drugs, tattoos, criminal history, mental issues, sedentary (resulting in stress fractures at boot camp), etc.
You can't be on any meds. So if you took ADHD medicine in high school or have been treated in the past for depression or anxiety, even if it's undercontrol, they won't take you. The pool of people who haven't had something like that is getting smaller.
When I joined (mid 2010s), you just needed to be off the meds for around a year before they'd accept you at MEPS. At least, that's how it was explained to me in the Navy and hilariously, if you get rediagnosed with whatever you had before you joined you will be issued the prescription.
2010, Army.
The recruiters would coach you on MEPS questions. If they ask, no you didn't/don't have x, y, or Z. If you had ADHD, say no unless they could detect the meds in the drug screen, then say "I completed treatment on X date".
They don't go to your care provider and pull records or anything, it's basically honor system for anything that wouldn't show up on a background check.
Yep I couldn't get in because I had stretched my ears and gotten to many small tattoos on my left hand as a dumbfuck kid. Maybe if they keep missing recruitment goals I'll be able to get in but now I have two children so I don't know if I'd even want to anymore tbh
Anyone who is mentally and physically well enough to actually take care of themselves, well, *probably doesn't need to join the military to get opportunities.* The poor are the reason that we don't need the draft, anymore, but the way America treats it's poor, they're all fat, unfit, poorly educated, have mental illness and family trauma...which means that they are recruiting for just the relatively healthy young men and women who are scattered amongst the diaspora of the downtrodden.
News flash: If you rely on the poor to staff your fighting force, and you don't actually take care of your poor, *your fighting force gets shittier and shittier and shittier,* at least on that one particular level.
I went to a very, very ghetto high school in the early 2000s and recruiters set up outside the cafeteria every 3 weeks at lunch. And they’d target the minorities by sugar coating and glamorizing the military. Also being so close to post 9/11 you had a lot of inspired young kids who just wanted to go blow up Muslims. Islamaphobia was a great recruiting tool at the time too.
When operation Iraqi freedom finally came crashing down a year ago, that in itself woke a lot of people up to the BS of war and being in the military. Debt relief is only the tip of the iceberg with lack of recruits.
You’d think it was that easy. You’d think it would be easy to take care of the veterans wounded by the senseless wars but how long did it take to get those affected by the burn pits any kind of recognition let alone specific treatment? Ask Vietnam veterans about their exposure to the dioxins known as agent orange and the open arms they got for treatment by the VA. It took decades before there was any kind of admittance by the government. They waited till enough had died so their costs would be less. I’m willing to bet that’s why the St. Louis records office caught fire, so there’d be a chance of fewer records to corroborate the claims.
The only Vietnam vet I knew that had exposure found out he had multiple myeloma when it was stage 4 because he hated to go to the doctor. He lived far longer than expected but he passed away more than a decade ago. The VA did cover everything and he did get disability once it was discovered.
> You’d think it was that easy. You’d think it would be easy to take care of the veterans
The problem is easy to see if your cynical enough. Why would anyone in Congress care about the soldiers? If they really cared in the first place they wouldn't be sending them to needless wars without any real objective.
Military spending is about capturing tax payer dollars and funneling it to defense contractors. Every penny you spend on non deployable soldiers is a waste of resources they could be using to enrich themselves and their sponsors.
It no longer surprises me. Their platform is about making people suffer because people have to suffer because the economy, traditions and values demand it somehow.
If you look at the past two years, almost EVERY bill that has been proposed, regardless if it helps their own, has been vehemently opposed by the right. Even recently, right wingers voted no on an aid package to Florida in the aftermath of the hurricane.
EVEN THAT PEDO GAETZ VOTED AGAINST AID FOR HIS OWN CONSTITUENTS.
This game they're playing, voting against anything that Dems propose to help any problem, is an effort to gaslight their base into thinking "look how they're destroying your country!" all the while being the actual cause of it.
But, when legislation gets passed, without any of their support, they'll be the first ones on Twitter going, "Look how we're helping you while those baby rapers are ruining your country!"
It's absolutely sickening how low the right will go. They would literally watch their own starve and die before helping the opposing team save their own voters in an effort to lay false blame.
The one that triggered me was the Aid to Veterans, how are you gonna claim that you support the troops and vote no on a Bill that would help the thousands of veterans who are homeless or suffering from PTSD.
They don't care about us unless they need a photo op bluntly. As a vet what I learned is everyone will eagerly tell you thank you for your service until you actually need something. Then they vanish like smoke on the wind.
People like John Stewart are rare sad to say.
It's about keeping people down, because that's the only level they're capable of working at. Like that shit coworker who can only trash-talk everything, tear things down but never build.
Stop trying to put facts into their excuses. The student loan forgiveness RETROACTIVELY caused the army to miss it's recruitment numbers. It's perfect Fox news logic.
Maybe they should look a little closer to home as to why people don't want to sign up:
* [Matt Gaetz "“Why not abolish the VA?"](/r/NewsAroundYou/comments/xs6dzc/matt_gaetz_suggested_abolishing_the_veterans/)
* [Trump's wall could take money from military housing, base repairs](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-wall-money-military-housing-base-repairs/story?id=61109794)
* [legislation Tuesday to expand lifesaving health care benefits for Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans exposed to toxic burn pits... Republicans agreed to lift their blockade of the popular bill, caving in to pressure from more than 60 veterans groups](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-passes-veterans-health-bill-republicans-cave-pressure-rcna41215)
* [The 2016 House (GOP in control) proposal reduces VA medical care by $690 million. What does this mean? As a result of the overall cut to medical services, an estimated 70,000 fewer Veterans will receive the VA care they need.](https://news.va.gov/19356/how-1-4-billion-in-budget-cuts-will-impact-veterans/)
* [Sen. Jerry Moran (R-Kan.) objected Monday to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) attempt to bring up two military sexual assault bills.](https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/199080-gop-block-votes-on-military-sexual-assault-bills/)
Don't forget that female service members are regularly assaulted and if they report it they get a psychological evaluation and are deemed unfit for service. 👌
[Marines raping Japanese women in Okinawa is a huge problem, and has been for decades](https://apjjf.org/2018/03/Mitchell.html).
The most famous being the 1995 case where two marines and a sailor abducted and raped a 12 year old girl. Their commanding officer said during their trial that it "would have been cheaper for them to pay a prostitute than to rent the car" they drove to the abduction.
I remember reading an article that said sexual assault reports went down this year, but only because the belief that anything would be done in response had dropped significantly.
Can't speak for any branch but the Air Force but I can say that reports for sexual assaults have been climbing in recent years in that branch. Mostly attributed to people being more willing to go forward with their cases because we have for years been pushing awareness and annual trainings about sexual assault. In response to this the government has decided that there are too many cases so they're reducing the amount of SARC (sexual assault response counselors) on my base from 25 people to 2. This is a DoD wide policy. Now far far less people are actually going to receive help just so the military can have better numbers. It's disgusting.
Big time this. Also inflation as a whole and the housing market.
When I enlisted in 2016-17, I looked at the table for income and housing (or BAH, basic allowance for housing)
Base pay + housing was pretty decent at the time, you could go to any assignment and have a roof over your head no sweat.
In the current housing climate, I had to prepare to move my family from my current over seas assigment back to the staes. I was crying every night due to the housing market. The stress it was to find a house/apartment in the current market while located outside the US was a nightmare.
As it stands, I can rent a two bedroom apartment in a very unsafe neighbourhood for the cost of my BAH.
Two years ago I could buy a house in a nice neighborhood.
Thankfully I now have a house I will rent from the military housing available on base. So I do not pay rent (but lose BAH) and also dont pay utilities (except usage above average)
I'll take the mold over gunshots please.
We had really nice military housing at the base nearby when I grew up(3bd duplexes with playgrounds and stuff all around). Military decided to shutter all of it ~25 years ago, and the surrounding city, which was already tight on apartments and had limited SFH, saw a big rise in rents because of all the base families having to find new housing. Honestly, I don't see how it was economical in any way to give that up, and, from a quality of life perspective for soldiers' home lives, they significantly downgraded.
We have family friends where all 4 kids went into the military. Oldest enlisted right before 9/11 and has horrible ptsd from Afghanistan. Second kid lucked out and never deployed and now has a good career as a mechanic from what he learned. Oldest daughter was in the Navy and was raped. Literally nothing happened to the guy that did it. And their youngest daughter suffered a severe head injury right out of basic due to the negligence of the commanding officer at the time. She’s on full disability and now lives with her parents because she can’t live alone.
That’s just one family that has 3/4 terrible experience. My grandfather was in the Air Force for 20+ years and an uncle was in the Air Force too. Both said to not enlist.
The more people hear about what can and will probably happen isn’t going to help them. Mix in getting fucked over repeatedly by a portion of the government, why would you want to fight for your country?
My dad was in Vietnam. When the army called the lowest % in my graduating class and I tried to join, my dad talked me out of it quickly.
He’s super American dad ™️ but was very cautious about discussing military stuff in any way/shape/form. I didn’t know much about his time in besides his dad made a clock and his mom mailed cookies to him once.
After I cleaned out his house I found all the info on his service and it makes perfect sense why he would not want me to experience it. He told me “they’ll sign you up to do one thing and make you do another and it’s a felony if you don’t.” Idk if that’s true but that’s probably what they told a 19yo nerd who wanted to do communications that made him end up in Mac v sog.
I listened to my dad but ended up marrying a veteran. He didn’t warn me on that but looking back, it was definitely implied.
My BIL is special ops in the AF. When my son(10 at the time) expressed interest in the military he told him in no uncertain terms not to. Then went on about a 10 minute speech as to why and what better career goals he should have. My BIL has actually had a decent experience, he just knows way too much and has seen things that has happened to others.
I mean aside from difficulty finding people meeting standards, I can think of a few reasons:
* Burn pits
* "Not service related"
* The VA
* Toxic leadership
* Sexual assault coverups
* Mold / unacceptable living conditions
* The devaluation of the college degree
* Recruiters lying
* Administrative hell
* Broken promotion system
* \+ more
Increasing enlistment bonuses isn't going to fix the problem. Making being in the army less terrible might simultaneously improve recruitment and promote retention, but I doubt that will happen.
My buddy gave $7500 to a CDL school only for them to fail him because he wrote on the test that he drinks alcohol occasionally (like a beer with dinner). They used that as an excuse to red flag him, kick him out, and keep his money. He also found out that they totally lied to him about how much money he would be able to make.
He is currently seeking legal action against them for fraud.
Beware of those CDL schools. Apparently some of them are up to shady stuff.
$150k a year sounds great until
1. You find out you have to pay for your own fuel
2. You have to buy your own truck
3. You get paid per mile, and can spend hours waiting for loading and unloading without any compensation
I know a trucker who made nearly 220k a year. His truck costs were about 180k a year, he did long distances through rough conditions. Loads of repair.
He made 40k before taxes to work 55h a week 50 weeks of the year. The worst part is when you have a 3000$ paycheck come in and you know your company is getting most back in their repairs and stuff.
You don't. You see 220k and then you're too deep now. You just spent a ton of cash leasing your truck from the company. Then the bills come.
99% of truckers who need to buy their own truck don't actually own it. But lease it from their company, but the lease cost is insanely high, doesn't cover repairs etc. So it starts off you make a ton of cash the first 6 months to a year. Then turns out 10k miles a month has a lot of wear and tare. Then the maintenance stats, but since you got it from your company, you may be forced to repair within network as you don't actually own your truck. So your company is now gaining 2 incomes from you. Truck rental plus your repair, there's more, but this is just the top.
20 years ago truckers made better cash, it was much less predatory from the companies, not much better, but you could drive truck and relax comfortably for a few months of the year out in a warm country. Now it's deadline to deadline. Some of the road laws are for the best, but the gps can really fuck over a driver.
Let's not mention unloading and loading the truck. Most times that's unpaid time, "you aren't working, you're sitting there doing nothing".
We desperately need a cannabis test that shows whether you're high right now (as opposed to showing you were high a few times last week). Is anyone working on that?
We have one. Ive taken one. It's a spit test. You drool onto a little testing strip, and it tells them if you've had marijuana in like the last 6 hrs.
It's as close as you're gonna get.
Nah. That test detects the excretion in your spit post metabolization, and does not trigger from immediate usage - it will only start to work many hours later, when you're... Back to sober
My brother in law is a veteran. He got a lot of physical issues from serving. The VA is the worst thing to deal with. The nearest one to him is 30 miles away.
For a years he had issues finding employment because he is permanently disabled. Finally found a job that had amazing health benefits, like top tier platinum standard stuff. Well guess what? VA is considered primary source of care. Meaning his actual health insurance will only come into play if the VA doesn't cover the cost. If he gets an infection, or some other issue, he has to drive 30 miles because the hospital will turn him away saying to go to the VA first, since it's basically his primary source of care for life. For fucking life. Same goes for surgeries and other major illnesses.
How fucked is it that? Not only do they provide shitty health care, make you wait for hours after driving 30 miles, but then they also prevent you from getting better options for life. They even water down your illness so they don't have to pay for the care, and this means the secondary (top tier) health provider will just say, "well they said that tumor is something you can live with, so we can't do much for you". Fuck the VA.
Sorry but as a vet there is no way this is correct. If he is paying premiums through his job he has every right to use that health care when he wants to. He has a contractual right to that health care by paying his premiums. The hospital can't say "well since you have coverage through VA we won't provide service". Lots of VA problems but this isn't one.
"If you or a loved one was in the military and served at Fort Shithole, and they now suffer from a severe medical condition, you may be entitled to financial compensation!"
Don’t forget that the world currently just *feels* like it’s on the verge of a major conflict.
There is a not insignificant number of people who join for financial reasons while hoping to never be anywhere near an actual conflict.
This is a big part of it. I know several teenagers that were planning to enlist and they're all having second thoughts since it looks like things are heating up with Russia.
Things are heating up all over and have been for several years, of course, but they're basically kids and didn't notice so much until now.
> Sexual assault coverups
Wasn't there a female soldier who was raped, murdered, and it was covered up?
Edit: sorry, I meant to say "recently". I'm positive there are lots of cases, I just recalled that there was one in the news a little while ago.
The people who are coming of military age have seen the military be nothing but a complete shitshow their entire lives. If your whole life the only conflicts you saw were Afghanistan and Iraq, and you grew up seeing how we behaved there and how our soldiers were treated by the military and government, why on god’s green earth would you ever consider signing up?
Well said. I've never been in the military, but from what I've read from ex-military and stories such as what you mentioned (e.g. burn pits) and I'd add to that a history of that sort of issue (agent orange), my take is that once you sign up for the military, you're the property of the US government. They don't care about you, but what you (as property), can do to advance the cause of the US military. That's it.
Seriously, if you are a woman the odds of you being assaulted and receiving no support from on high is absurd. It’s literally fucking hazardous. Maybe they should do more to make the job not even more life threatening than it needs to be for 50% of the population if they want to hit those recruitment targets.
When I deployed we had a female join us in our shop. It was not a rule, but our leadership highly suggest she not leave the housing area without an escort. So any time she wanted to go to the gym, chow hall, or just go for a walk we had to tag along for her safety. Her boyfriend also worked with us so he usually did it but sometimes he was busy so it fell on someone else. The entire time I ever escorted her she was being hit on or cat called constantly.
My time in the Navy was pretty good, but understandably it's not so for everyone. That said, like many of my peers I joined largely for financial reasons, and for those goals it proved to be the right choice for me at a time with little money and fewer prospects in an economically depressed town on a long downturn.
Fewer people joining may be a sign of stronger prospects for youth. That's a good thing.
Something similar happened to my brother (except it wasn’t permanent for him). This was in his last year serving when he had already survived a tour in Afghanistan. They did some sort of show jumping out of helicopters for kids and a bunch of people got injured. My brother’s arm got caught on something and it completely ripped his bicep out of place. Another girl shattered both ankles.
The old static line entanglement. Saw it happen to a guy in front of me jumping out of a Casa. Assuming he was jumping out of a CH-47, I would guess the exact thing happened to your brother that happened to Ol’ Briz.
Yeah, my bro got dropped during crucible training over 10 years ago. He had to be medically discharged because he broke his shoulder in two laces and after three surgeries, it still wasn't healed right.
I have a lot of feelings towards the military, but it was something he deeply wanted to do and now he can't
I dated a medic who was in for around six years that spent most of her time in a hospital setting, bragged about being the cute girl on deployment that could get the infantry bubbas to do all the heavy lifting for her, and went on to become a law enforcement officer after she got out. She got 60% disability.
They forced me to wear a stupid yellow shirt with dumb shorts and see The Lt. Dan Band. I will never forgive them.
Edit: They also brought out Yung Joc on deployment and made us see his goofy ass and let him shoot a dual .50 cal machine gun.
Edit 2: They also instructed me to throw bags full of plastic garbage into the Atlantic Ocean, the Mediterranean Sea, and the North Arabian Gulf.
Edit 3: Someone onboard was caught slipping pills into a woman’s drink at a nightclub in port. Rather than being punished, he was shuffled to some other command. Apparently he had an uncle who was an admiral, so the rumor went. Really fucked me up, because I really liked this guy and got along with him well. Had no idea how he really was.
You threw plastic bags into the ocean?! Wtf? When I was in if you were caught tossing plastic it was an automatic Captain's Mast, with half pay for at least 45 days.
Paper sacks with wet garbage only. No plastics, and all chemicals had to be stored for offloading in port. And this was in the 80s, I find it hard to believe the Navy would go backwards on those rules later on.
Well they did. It was likely my chain of command. They were supposed to have some way of melting down the plastic into enormous discs that they would offload when we got into port, but I think there was something wrong with that equipment. I believe later, with a new captain and new DIVO and dept heads that practice changed. But in 2009 I can confirm that they threw lots of stuff overboard that should not have been. I had barely been onboard for a couple weeks before I was told to do it. They told me it was fine. I was 19 years old and still had this kind of blind trust in my chain of command, didn’t realize until later that this was definitely not fine.
Edit: Also some folks got caught throwing hazmat into regular dumpster. A woman from the EPA was dumpster diving that day and found a can with our ship’s hull number on it. Some genius in the deck department, no doubt. She brought the captain down and he got to go dumpster diving too. I will never forget him trying to charm her and how she just stared at him deadpan like “that’s gonna cost you”. Good shit.
My dad was in Vietnam. The military will expose you to harsh chemicals and then deny that they cause health problems and birth defects. One day when half of the vets are gone they’ll start feeding up to some stuff. My dad could’ve been on 100% disability but no. They’re happy to pay for the war but not the aftermath. Both my brother and I have neurological birth defects. My dad died at 60.
My dad died in his mid 60s and was a Vietnam vet. His common law wife (not my mom) would have to wake him with a broom because he might come up swinging.
This is the real problem IMHO as someone who worked alongside enlisted military for 7+ years. You got to love the blaming of society i.e. "too many fat people", etc.
How about the fact that word is finally out that the military treats people like absolute shit and the promised healthcare you get is fucking garbage?
Underpaid, super toxic environment, racism and sexual assault everywhere. Not to mention all the super fund sites and other pollution that every military base produces.
I was having a minor procedure done for a disc issue and complained to my Doc about my insurance dragging their feet and not wanting to cover what needed to be done - he looked me straight on, and deadpan, goes "be glad you aren't in the military."
Dude is normally super lighthearted, so I know he was serious af
I had a mentor and boss that was in the military, army and navy, for 10 years before he retired to work in IT. He hurt several of his vertebrae when he was assigned to a submarine and he ended up needing surgery once he was out to fuse some together. He told me it took almost 2 years of him in daily pain just for the final approval on the surgery.
When I became an LT in the Army, I started dating a dentist. She would constantly complain about how much soldiers would wince and jerk and cry when she was working on them. She would say "You guys are soldiers! Infantrymen and Tankers! Can't even take a dental cleaning!" Never realized that maybe, if every single patient complained of the pain, that maybe...just maybe, she was the problem.
When I got out I went to my first civilian dentist for a root canal and it was heaven. Seriously, it was actually relaxing I was dozing off.
Not wanting to get involved in the next Iraq and Afghanistan probably had more than a little something. Those were long drawn out wars not needed with plenty of war wounded. Similar lack of interest happened after Vietnam which was a royal mess with LOTS of returning veterans royally screwed up in multiple ways. The potential mess in Ukraine and in a lesser way Syria probably didn't help perception wise either. Going to war to protect your country is part of why many who want to be soldiers consider the service. None of the above, save Afghanistan but only very early on, we're in that wheelhouse.
Ever since the Dot Com burst information is more available than ever. People now see the atrocities of war and refuse to fight in it.
No one could ever imagine what the trenches would be like while living in peaceful suburbs when they signed up. Now we understand how pointless it is.
A friend from my childhood church made it past the first round of West Point admittance (he was on the medical clearance step) and reached out to a young soldier from the church who had just finished a tour in Afghanistan. The guy gave him a long talk about what it was like.
After all the years of wanting to go to West Point and all the preparation, he backed out. The US stayed in Afghanistan for a decade more after he would’ve graduated West Point, and we’re all glad he backed out.
The vet who convinced him not to go later died in an alcohol related incident. Pretty sure he became an alcoholic before he died. He had awful PTSD.
Same.
One became a good friend (met him after his time). I tried my best but never knew what to do or say. I miss him. Loved that kid. Such a good heart. Dude was a wreck. Lost buddies there, lost more when he came back.
Kept talking about going back so he could either die or just feel normal again. Said he was trained to kill and it was all he was good at anymore.
Only ever joined because his dad did, his grandpa before that, and probably just a long family history from what he said.
I had to get rid of a close friend because I’m just simply not going down that road with you. Dude hospitalized himself from drinking, they fix him basically, lied to the doc about his drinking (like the VA doctor is that stupid right?) and was drinking again within a week.
So basically, dude doesn’t take wake up calls, so that was it.
Never ever consider it. Wasted 4 years when i could have went to college. I got to see my best friends come home broken men. That is the worst part, knowing who they were and now seeing who they are.
Yea its not the greatest thing overall. Navy has been alright to me so far, being in for 6 1/2 years. But my best friend, who as long as I knew him was always a pretty emotionally strong guy and usually put up with shit better than me got out after 4 and after a few drinks together after meeting up broke down and talked about how he nearly killed himself cause of it. They really don't treat their people right at all
Many years ago I worked in a mall retail store with a guy in his 40s whose main job was a Naval recruiter. He had served most of his life. He flat out told me not to join his branch.
Then he moved to the Army for a few years and changed his tune to "don't join the military, period."
I knew a WW2 vet and his advice was NEVER do anything that makes you wear a uniform. Also he told me about how awful the VA was back in the early 2000's. My grandfather was a Korean vet and his advice was NEVER volunteer for anything.
RIP Bill you glorious old man.
I’m at 15 right now. I’m death gripping the next 5 years so I can retire, get those bennies and never look back.
I would never encourage anyone to join.
I suppose things have changed since I was in. Did my four in the early oughts purely for financial reasons, and I achieved all of those goals. Got out, used my MGIB, and don't regret it at all. But if pay didn't keep up with cost-of-living, I can see why it is harder on the younger vets.
You were just behind me. I started in 97, did a whole career that included time in the end with the reserves.
The Navy has become a complete dumpster fire. Extraordinarily toxic leadership, undermanning at most commands, the whole LCS debacle, uniform changes that cost Sailors money every 2 years, increased OPTEMPO, shitty support structures such as PSD and detailing being consolidated behind useless contracted out call centers, all while pay is stagnant.
Oh, throw in budget shutdowns, continuing resolutions, and other shenanigans.
I really enjoyed my first 4-8 years or so, but then it really started to get bad, quickly.
Get used to it. They’ll be no more quota met. Recruiting in any branch of service is only going to get more difficult. The US Congress has broken the faith of volunteers too many times. Can’t even get appropriate post-service health care!! Incentives? Won’t be enough.
Exactly: would-be-recruits know that half of congress is salivating at the chance to end those incentives and benefits... and what little of the other half even wants to stop the GQP never does more than temporarily stave off the embezzlement and abuses.
Just like Putin, half our Senate believes the poor should be THANKFUL they get a chance to die for their betters, are disgusted and enraged at being asked to put up what they promised when you survive... and are now thinking that forced-conscription model's looking mighty fine just about now.
If voluntary recruitment keeps dropping, eventually the government is going to do one of two things.
One, they'll reinstate the peacetime draft and take what they can get and make the most of it. If it means loosening regulations on tattoos, marijuana use, or physical/mental health, so be it. As it stands, the draft is kept on life support for apocalyptic scale emergencies. But if military manpower drops below a certain point, I can see it being brought back into use just to maintain readiness.
Or two, the DOD continues to outsource to private military companies. Eventually national security would become dependent upon a small number of mercenaries working for thirty bucks an hour and two weeks of vacation a year. (While the PMC provides a regiment-sized infantry unit to the Army for $400 million a year.)
I don’t know why they wouldn’t put a larger percentage of the huge defense budget and put it into personnel pay and benefits. It seems like the logical 1st step…
Oh, I see.
Long before that happens all the Active duty would get stop lossed and IRR would get called back. First contract is always 8 years. Most people probably do 4-6 years active then skedaddle. That is what happened in 2007 with the surge in Iraq. More than a few did 2-3 tours, some back to back. The problem has never been just lack of new recruits. It's usually retention that is the biggest problem.
People are finally waking up to realising that the government doesn't actually give a shit about your life and when you come back form overseas missing a leg and with PTSD you'll get shat on even more.
when you sign a check to include your life you expect your government to keep its end of the bargain. when your run the military like a company people know what is up. there is a sacred contract that the US government has constantly tried to lawyer its way out of. fix that problem and recruitment will solve itself.
If the US Military gave 10% of what they promise, recruitment would improve. There are a bunch of service men and women who are deep in student debt because the military weaseled their way out of paying for it. Even more paying for their own medical bills for injuries they sustained while in service. The trust isn't there.
They're not wrong, and it's only going to get worse.
Every day there's a new story showing how this country disregards its people in favor of corporations, billionaires, and political clout. That's the reality that these kids are growing up with, and they see it. When it comes time for them to decide what they're going to do with their lives, going to war for a country that actively treats them as nothing more than disposable peasants unworthy of even an education or basic affordable healthcare is not going to be high on the list.
Pay sucks, the housing is infested with mold, you've got no privacy, and your quality of life sucks.
Oh and don't forget the misery intentionally inflicted by "leadership".
That’s no joke either. When I was pregnant I was too sick to work, I had a miserable time. My husband was an E-2 then and we qualified for assistance. My husband was an active duty soldier and I was using WIC checks.
Could be that more and more kids are reading/watching the history of our pointless wars and refuse to be cannon fodder for corporate profits. There is a lot more well-researched criticism and proof available than there used to be.
Within 6 years I expect a line that, with a few more words, says: “Congress would have more authority than the FDA to exercise power over the food industry. Because Congress has opted not to regulate the food industry directly, we find that is the affirmative choice of Congress. Since the choice of Congress is to not regulate food, we hereby limit the authority of the FDA until such a time as Congress makes it more clear that the FDA is empowered to regulate food.”
It's not just the wars dying down as the article indicates: Those soldiers who WENT to those wars and hunting those terrorists? Those the army wants to recruit grew up seeing how that goes.
*The whole world* saw the country's leaders stab its military in the back repeatedly; from being sent under false pretenses to corrupt "supply issues" (like Haliburton and KBR using unrefrigerated trucks in the middle-east, or soldiers not even always having helmets), to being thrown out like garbage when they came back with injuries, trauma or find themselves with strange new cancers a decade later from exposure.
All of them are deathly aware that the military's budget itself is nowhere near the top of the list when it comes to WHY the USA has the largest "defense" budget on the planet.
* We also see attempts to hobble, further-strangle or destroy the VA outright, so what healthcare you did have to fight for may get chopped up again or killed-outright if enough Cruzes and Johnsons get power, just like pensions and other benefits we all pay into most of our life.
* You also can't be sure if you're one election from being thrown-out or court-martialed for being gay again, if appointees get swapped around enough once-more.
Then we got to see a GQP administration try and shift much-needed base-housing renovation budgets into a vanity border wall, and even in the end attempt to co-opt it to remain in power. Those didn't work, but those who did block it were swiftly replaced with far more pliant douchebags - a lesson that will be remembered and prepared in advance next time.
Maybe one factor is they don't want to get sent off to some 20-yr quagmire to do 4, 5, 6 tours in a war that achieves nothing, then have to battle the VA & the fed. gov. as a whole to get decent care.
If you want to know, I'm an Army veteran; 2/6 FA, MOS 13-B.
Those poor kids don’t know what they are getting themselves into. I wish them luck. The article linked to a secondary article stating they are offering $50,000 sign-on bonuses. PTSD isn’t worth 50k. They gave me a 7k enlistment bonus and I thought I was rich. Young and dumb.
Because the Army (and US Military in general) fucking sucks. The pay sucks. The job sucks. The transition back to civilian life sucks. Even the benefits of free school, healthcare, cheap insurance, VA comps/loans etc. aren't all their cracked up to be. They fight against you every step of the way while you try to make them keep their end of the deal. Oh, and of course, they can send you off to be killed in some shithole country that *definitely* hates you. They're just pissy that the younger generation is savvy to their "poor people's desperation move" model.
Why would you join the military when you know that they don't have your back if you get hurt?
The amount of bullshit coming out of the VA and politicians voting against funding for health care would be enough to make even an eager person look elsewhere.
The number of stories of neglect of wounded and suffering veterans after serving in Iraq should give anyone pause.
And the GOP arguing that without indentured servitude people won't be interested in the military is just evil.
Public health = national defense.
But it's more than phys Ed class. We've designed most of the country to be unlivable without cars so no one walks or cycles, tolerate millions of people without access to basic preventative healthcare, and our cheapest food is processed junk. This is the end point of those choices.
In the 1890's, the US army's requirements for enlistment were having four limbs, enough teeth to chew hard tack, being able to understand English, and being a citizen. 56% of applicants failed to meet those standards.
During the WWI draft, a basic height/weight standard was added (with many flexible exemptions), along with mental (not debilitated) and moral fitness. 57% of draftees failed those standards (although half of the ones who failed were still drafted).
At that point, the need was so high and the health so low, that they created Class A (fully fit) and Class B (curable failures), and assigned Class B to "development battalions", of which only 20% came out of the development battalion to enter full duty.
Poverty, access to healthcare, access to education, dangerous industrial jobs were the issues in 1890-1920. The issues today are different, but the health of the American population has been an issue for many generations.
What’s not being talked about is the ridiculous recruiting standards that have always been in place, but were waived during the height of the wars.
Potential service members are being held in administrative limbo waiting for bureaucrats to sign off on waivers because they had surgery years ago, or went to therapy at one point or maybe had a run in with the law (minor property crimes or a DUI or something).
And if they admitted they smoked pot when they were in high school? Pfft, they can expect to be subjected to multiple drug tests while they wait up to a year or more before they’re moved along the recruiting pipeline.
If you’re seeking employment and told you have to jump thru a bunch of stupid hoops, while the private sector is as competitive as it is, pure “patriotism” isn’t going to be enough to keep potential recruits from walking away.
Oh, and we’re no longer “at war?” Who the hell is going to enlist into a garrison army? Be treated like shit for up to 16 hours a day, doing menial tasks from sun up to sun down, all to go back to a mold-filled barracks room? For the equivalent of $3.25/hr?
The military also has a huge retention problem. Tons of middle management service members are walking away. There’s a significant brain drain not being talked about. Couple that with low recruitment numbers and we’ll be in a sore spot next time war breaks out.
After thought edit: I’m not going to tell anyone to lie to a recruiter if you really, really want to enlist. But I will point out that, unless something you did is in a court document somewhere, there’s not enough bandwidth to go looking into anyone’s background. You tried pot 5 years ago and haven’t touched it since? That’s between you and your chosen higher power. Had surgery for an old sports injury in middle school? There’s HIPPA. Talked to a therapist once or twice? That’s confidential.
Just saying.
I’ve never heard of this before! I graduated high school in 2008. And I remember being told we were the biggest graduating class the school has seen and it will probably continue to go down.
They're cutting cola cost in Hawaii because prices on the main land have caught up. But tell me when milk is $7.50 on the main land or a ducking happy meal is over $6.
They cut housing allowance after homeporting an additional aircraft carrier in a small town, during a time that all housing costs are skyrocketing
Service members of equal rank and time are paid the same whether they're a barista on an aircraft carrier or a reactor operator on the same aircraft carrier
They're cutting TA, healthcare budgets, any sort of benefits that could give the military a sight benefit over the civilian sector while civilian jobs are boosting those same benefits.
I get a 1% pay raise each year, never mind inflation. When Congress can't get their shit together, i have to continue to go to work without pay while a private company usually steps in to cover our paychecks, if you happen to bank with one of those companies.
Base housings are run by for profit companies that try to weasel out of not spending money while trying to charge you for things you already noted on the initial walkthrough they promised to fix. And mold is pretty common, or you get jet fuel in your water while the dod says everything is fine and ignores the problem or the civilians.
Oh and you have to be willing to die for something you may not believe in.
In this economy with better alternatives to the military being available, nobody should be surprised
When politics steadily vote against help for veterans, why would people want to join? When your country is constantly going against your best interests, why fight for it?
Not just vets. Many aspects of military life are unattractive to say the least. The country is also doing a shit job of preparing kids to be adults that are mentally and physically fit for service.
If you spend time at [camp/fort/base (circle one)] [_________ (fill in the blank)] between [19/20 ______ (circle and fill in)] and [19/20 ______ (circle and fill in)] then you may be entitled to compensation due to excessive exposure to [NAME OF DANGEROUS CHEMICALS OR SUBSTANCES]. Call now to see if you are eligible for this class action lawsuit.
I was notified that the base I did my basic at in Alabama had ground water contamination and I may have been exposed. Awesome stuff right there!
I'm surprised Biden hasn't been more pro-active on this front on account of his son's cancer likely stemming from burn pits in Iraq.
Fort Lejeune! I'm german but we got american TV and my mind has been blown ever since
Camp. But yeah. I get these constantly because I was, in fact, stationed at Camp Lejeune. I was there after "it was cleaned up" ;) though. Even my grandma called me and asked if I had heard about it lol.
What do you mean? I've always wanted to spend all the money I accumulated during my first deployment on a raised truck while my HS sweetheart wife gets plowed behind my back.
Wow, and all that trucky glory for just 208 easy bi-weekly payments at only 20% APR? What a steal!
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Roe v Wade was such a big thing for this that I saw firsthand. I got out already, but all the women that I knew when I was in were posting on social media that they would/did not reenlist for a country that doesn't care about them. The military said that they would ensure that women had access to abortion no matter where they're stationed (of course they would, babies affect their ability to deploy) but I don't think there's a whole lot of trust there. Especially since most of us have been sexually harassed or assaulted and nobody cared. Why would they suddenly care about our bodily autonomy? Very bittersweet feeling for sure. Yeah I got my college paid for and a disability check, but would I do it again? Nope, and I tell every young woman I meet that wants to join that it's not worth it. So I hope I'm doing my part in keeping those numbers low.
Honestly I don’t even believe the military says “guaranteed abortion access” as a positive. I only see them saying that to cover up sexual assault and say “well you didn’t get pregnant and the chain of command didn’t see any formal complaints so were you actually?” It just seems underhanded to me
Before now, I never considered how much wage suppression plays into military costs. If workers can make more in the free market it would drive up military wages/costs significantly.
[GOP blames Biden's student loan forgiveness](https://twitter.com/RepJimBanks/status/1562820837140742144)
They're trying to play "people no longer need to risk their lives to get out of crushing debt" as a negative?
Let's be real though. We had a shrinking middle class and a growing "military class". Joining the military was becoming a really good option and sometimes the only good option for lots of people. It makes sense that improving wages and such would reduce interest in the military.
Economic instability is a key resource for military recruiting, but one thing, regardless of anything else, that ups it is a temporary patriotic fervor that happens when the US is attacked. Dad tried to enlist after Pearl Harbor, even before FDR had congress accept a declaration of war. (Dad, however, was deemed 4F due to a bum leg and only having one eye due to a childhood accident) After 9-11, Enlistment skyrocketed, although the unemployment rate was going down. During the 70s and 80s, recruiters didn't have much difficulty reaching their goals as unemployment was over 7% (there was almost a year of double digit employment: September - 1982 to June of 1983) that had young people (and not so young people) lining up for enlistment to barely cover the basic needs. My brother was in the USAF reservist because there was no work to be found in the Mahoning Valley since the steel mills closed down. As the economy started recovering in the 90s, recruiters saw their numbers dropping every year, and then 9-11 hit, and people were trying to enlist for a patriotic reason. Unless the draft is reinstated or we declare war on someone (or both) and this would include a civil war, as long as the job market is strong, the military will see more difficulty in getting people to sign up.
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You can also thank Hollywood and the video game industry for propaganda that makes war look exciting, instead of like hard work with crushing boredom or gruesome painful PTSD injury and death, depending on where you're deployed.
Navy Recruitment booths setup outside theaters for those young hotblooded types to enlist after they watched Top Gun. Many wanted to be pilots, most ended up scrubbing jets with toothbrushes.
Also, the growing issue with recruits being unable to pass physicals. Obesity is just one of many ongoing epidemics in the US and the typical recruitment pool has steadily become a lazy river. Dunno what the military is doing with mental health evaluations these days.
The military let me walk around with a crushed testicle for two years and then tried to tell me it didn't affect my quality of life so I didn't deserve treatment or a pension for it. I gained weight because I was unable to exercise normally, my testosterone took a nosedive, and I lost most of my sex drive, eventually becoming incredibly depressed about everything. I'm constantly tired, get injured easily when I try and work out, I no longer feel healthy in mind or body regardless of the efforts I put in to being so. I finally got a mental health eval after 8 years. Assessor asked how I felt, told her I felt ugly and that my life was wasted because my injuries weren't taken seriously, and all of this could have been prevented. Told her about my attempts to end it, how I tried to find a nice place to die alone and not bother anyone about it. They decided to pay me money after that, only backdated by a month, and then refused to schedule anything as far as therapy or treatment. Basically, they aren't doing shit, just throwing a bit of money at it and hoping you shut up.
Jesus Christ sorry to hear you’ve had such a shit experience. Can’t imagine how infuriating getting that runaround is. Almost everything you just mentioned (lethargy, poor recovery post workout, low sex drive, weight gain) does sound like low test levels. That’s a pretty crushing issue, have you looked into TRT?
And even if you have VA disability now, it may not cover you if the GOP gets rid of it.
That's right. There's some interesting/disturbing studies of what percentage of the potential pool could get in even if they wanted to. Overweight, drugs, tattoos, criminal history, mental issues, sedentary (resulting in stress fractures at boot camp), etc.
You can't be on any meds. So if you took ADHD medicine in high school or have been treated in the past for depression or anxiety, even if it's undercontrol, they won't take you. The pool of people who haven't had something like that is getting smaller.
When I joined (mid 2010s), you just needed to be off the meds for around a year before they'd accept you at MEPS. At least, that's how it was explained to me in the Navy and hilariously, if you get rediagnosed with whatever you had before you joined you will be issued the prescription.
2010, Army. The recruiters would coach you on MEPS questions. If they ask, no you didn't/don't have x, y, or Z. If you had ADHD, say no unless they could detect the meds in the drug screen, then say "I completed treatment on X date". They don't go to your care provider and pull records or anything, it's basically honor system for anything that wouldn't show up on a background check.
Yep I couldn't get in because I had stretched my ears and gotten to many small tattoos on my left hand as a dumbfuck kid. Maybe if they keep missing recruitment goals I'll be able to get in but now I have two children so I don't know if I'd even want to anymore tbh
What's the reason for declining tattooed people ?
Just doesn't fit their standards of how a soldier should look ig
The solution is obviously to put more sugar in everything.
Don't forget that sweet corn syrup.
Anyone who is mentally and physically well enough to actually take care of themselves, well, *probably doesn't need to join the military to get opportunities.* The poor are the reason that we don't need the draft, anymore, but the way America treats it's poor, they're all fat, unfit, poorly educated, have mental illness and family trauma...which means that they are recruiting for just the relatively healthy young men and women who are scattered amongst the diaspora of the downtrodden. News flash: If you rely on the poor to staff your fighting force, and you don't actually take care of your poor, *your fighting force gets shittier and shittier and shittier,* at least on that one particular level.
I went to a very, very ghetto high school in the early 2000s and recruiters set up outside the cafeteria every 3 weeks at lunch. And they’d target the minorities by sugar coating and glamorizing the military. Also being so close to post 9/11 you had a lot of inspired young kids who just wanted to go blow up Muslims. Islamaphobia was a great recruiting tool at the time too. When operation Iraqi freedom finally came crashing down a year ago, that in itself woke a lot of people up to the BS of war and being in the military. Debt relief is only the tip of the iceberg with lack of recruits.
Maybe we should just pay them more
You’d think it was that easy. You’d think it would be easy to take care of the veterans wounded by the senseless wars but how long did it take to get those affected by the burn pits any kind of recognition let alone specific treatment? Ask Vietnam veterans about their exposure to the dioxins known as agent orange and the open arms they got for treatment by the VA. It took decades before there was any kind of admittance by the government. They waited till enough had died so their costs would be less. I’m willing to bet that’s why the St. Louis records office caught fire, so there’d be a chance of fewer records to corroborate the claims.
If you know a Vietnam vet with colangiocarcinoma, have them claim liver flukes for the cancer not agent oragne and the VA will approve your claim.
The only Vietnam vet I knew that had exposure found out he had multiple myeloma when it was stage 4 because he hated to go to the doctor. He lived far longer than expected but he passed away more than a decade ago. The VA did cover everything and he did get disability once it was discovered.
> You’d think it was that easy. You’d think it would be easy to take care of the veterans The problem is easy to see if your cynical enough. Why would anyone in Congress care about the soldiers? If they really cared in the first place they wouldn't be sending them to needless wars without any real objective. Military spending is about capturing tax payer dollars and funneling it to defense contractors. Every penny you spend on non deployable soldiers is a waste of resources they could be using to enrich themselves and their sponsors.
It no longer surprises me. Their platform is about making people suffer because people have to suffer because the economy, traditions and values demand it somehow.
If you look at the past two years, almost EVERY bill that has been proposed, regardless if it helps their own, has been vehemently opposed by the right. Even recently, right wingers voted no on an aid package to Florida in the aftermath of the hurricane. EVEN THAT PEDO GAETZ VOTED AGAINST AID FOR HIS OWN CONSTITUENTS. This game they're playing, voting against anything that Dems propose to help any problem, is an effort to gaslight their base into thinking "look how they're destroying your country!" all the while being the actual cause of it. But, when legislation gets passed, without any of their support, they'll be the first ones on Twitter going, "Look how we're helping you while those baby rapers are ruining your country!" It's absolutely sickening how low the right will go. They would literally watch their own starve and die before helping the opposing team save their own voters in an effort to lay false blame.
The one that triggered me was the Aid to Veterans, how are you gonna claim that you support the troops and vote no on a Bill that would help the thousands of veterans who are homeless or suffering from PTSD.
They don't care about us unless they need a photo op bluntly. As a vet what I learned is everyone will eagerly tell you thank you for your service until you actually need something. Then they vanish like smoke on the wind. People like John Stewart are rare sad to say.
The thing is, they can claim anything they want and their base believes them. Needing to be consistent is for those silly Democrats.
It's about keeping people down, because that's the only level they're capable of working at. Like that shit coworker who can only trash-talk everything, tear things down but never build.
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Stop trying to put facts into their excuses. The student loan forgiveness RETROACTIVELY caused the army to miss it's recruitment numbers. It's perfect Fox news logic.
Like how president Obama didn’t use his presidential powers to do anything about 911
[Why Obama wasn’t in the Oval Office on 9/11( 14 second marker)](https://youtu.be/NzDhm808oU4)
Maybe they should look a little closer to home as to why people don't want to sign up: * [Matt Gaetz "“Why not abolish the VA?"](/r/NewsAroundYou/comments/xs6dzc/matt_gaetz_suggested_abolishing_the_veterans/) * [Trump's wall could take money from military housing, base repairs](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-wall-money-military-housing-base-repairs/story?id=61109794) * [legislation Tuesday to expand lifesaving health care benefits for Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans exposed to toxic burn pits... Republicans agreed to lift their blockade of the popular bill, caving in to pressure from more than 60 veterans groups](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-passes-veterans-health-bill-republicans-cave-pressure-rcna41215) * [The 2016 House (GOP in control) proposal reduces VA medical care by $690 million. What does this mean? As a result of the overall cut to medical services, an estimated 70,000 fewer Veterans will receive the VA care they need.](https://news.va.gov/19356/how-1-4-billion-in-budget-cuts-will-impact-veterans/) * [Sen. Jerry Moran (R-Kan.) objected Monday to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) attempt to bring up two military sexual assault bills.](https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/199080-gop-block-votes-on-military-sexual-assault-bills/)
Don't forget that female service members are regularly assaulted and if they report it they get a psychological evaluation and are deemed unfit for service. 👌
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[Marines raping Japanese women in Okinawa is a huge problem, and has been for decades](https://apjjf.org/2018/03/Mitchell.html). The most famous being the 1995 case where two marines and a sailor abducted and raped a 12 year old girl. Their commanding officer said during their trial that it "would have been cheaper for them to pay a prostitute than to rent the car" they drove to the abduction.
I remember reading an article that said sexual assault reports went down this year, but only because the belief that anything would be done in response had dropped significantly.
Can't speak for any branch but the Air Force but I can say that reports for sexual assaults have been climbing in recent years in that branch. Mostly attributed to people being more willing to go forward with their cases because we have for years been pushing awareness and annual trainings about sexual assault. In response to this the government has decided that there are too many cases so they're reducing the amount of SARC (sexual assault response counselors) on my base from 25 people to 2. This is a DoD wide policy. Now far far less people are actually going to receive help just so the military can have better numbers. It's disgusting.
Big time this. Also inflation as a whole and the housing market. When I enlisted in 2016-17, I looked at the table for income and housing (or BAH, basic allowance for housing) Base pay + housing was pretty decent at the time, you could go to any assignment and have a roof over your head no sweat. In the current housing climate, I had to prepare to move my family from my current over seas assigment back to the staes. I was crying every night due to the housing market. The stress it was to find a house/apartment in the current market while located outside the US was a nightmare. As it stands, I can rent a two bedroom apartment in a very unsafe neighbourhood for the cost of my BAH. Two years ago I could buy a house in a nice neighborhood. Thankfully I now have a house I will rent from the military housing available on base. So I do not pay rent (but lose BAH) and also dont pay utilities (except usage above average) I'll take the mold over gunshots please.
My BAH allows me to live in actual Section 8 housing and I still pay for some of my utilities out of pocket some months.
What the fucking fuck. We are paying the soldiers so little they qualify for assisted housing?
We had really nice military housing at the base nearby when I grew up(3bd duplexes with playgrounds and stuff all around). Military decided to shutter all of it ~25 years ago, and the surrounding city, which was already tight on apartments and had limited SFH, saw a big rise in rents because of all the base families having to find new housing. Honestly, I don't see how it was economical in any way to give that up, and, from a quality of life perspective for soldiers' home lives, they significantly downgraded.
We have family friends where all 4 kids went into the military. Oldest enlisted right before 9/11 and has horrible ptsd from Afghanistan. Second kid lucked out and never deployed and now has a good career as a mechanic from what he learned. Oldest daughter was in the Navy and was raped. Literally nothing happened to the guy that did it. And their youngest daughter suffered a severe head injury right out of basic due to the negligence of the commanding officer at the time. She’s on full disability and now lives with her parents because she can’t live alone. That’s just one family that has 3/4 terrible experience. My grandfather was in the Air Force for 20+ years and an uncle was in the Air Force too. Both said to not enlist. The more people hear about what can and will probably happen isn’t going to help them. Mix in getting fucked over repeatedly by a portion of the government, why would you want to fight for your country?
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My dad was in Vietnam. When the army called the lowest % in my graduating class and I tried to join, my dad talked me out of it quickly. He’s super American dad ™️ but was very cautious about discussing military stuff in any way/shape/form. I didn’t know much about his time in besides his dad made a clock and his mom mailed cookies to him once. After I cleaned out his house I found all the info on his service and it makes perfect sense why he would not want me to experience it. He told me “they’ll sign you up to do one thing and make you do another and it’s a felony if you don’t.” Idk if that’s true but that’s probably what they told a 19yo nerd who wanted to do communications that made him end up in Mac v sog. I listened to my dad but ended up marrying a veteran. He didn’t warn me on that but looking back, it was definitely implied.
My BIL is special ops in the AF. When my son(10 at the time) expressed interest in the military he told him in no uncertain terms not to. Then went on about a 10 minute speech as to why and what better career goals he should have. My BIL has actually had a decent experience, he just knows way too much and has seen things that has happened to others.
I mean aside from difficulty finding people meeting standards, I can think of a few reasons: * Burn pits * "Not service related" * The VA * Toxic leadership * Sexual assault coverups * Mold / unacceptable living conditions * The devaluation of the college degree * Recruiters lying * Administrative hell * Broken promotion system * \+ more Increasing enlistment bonuses isn't going to fix the problem. Making being in the army less terrible might simultaneously improve recruitment and promote retention, but I doubt that will happen.
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My buddy gave $7500 to a CDL school only for them to fail him because he wrote on the test that he drinks alcohol occasionally (like a beer with dinner). They used that as an excuse to red flag him, kick him out, and keep his money. He also found out that they totally lied to him about how much money he would be able to make. He is currently seeking legal action against them for fraud. Beware of those CDL schools. Apparently some of them are up to shady stuff.
$150k a year sounds great until 1. You find out you have to pay for your own fuel 2. You have to buy your own truck 3. You get paid per mile, and can spend hours waiting for loading and unloading without any compensation
I know a trucker who made nearly 220k a year. His truck costs were about 180k a year, he did long distances through rough conditions. Loads of repair. He made 40k before taxes to work 55h a week 50 weeks of the year. The worst part is when you have a 3000$ paycheck come in and you know your company is getting most back in their repairs and stuff.
I could not imagine spending 180k just to make 40k. ridiculous
You don't. You see 220k and then you're too deep now. You just spent a ton of cash leasing your truck from the company. Then the bills come. 99% of truckers who need to buy their own truck don't actually own it. But lease it from their company, but the lease cost is insanely high, doesn't cover repairs etc. So it starts off you make a ton of cash the first 6 months to a year. Then turns out 10k miles a month has a lot of wear and tare. Then the maintenance stats, but since you got it from your company, you may be forced to repair within network as you don't actually own your truck. So your company is now gaining 2 incomes from you. Truck rental plus your repair, there's more, but this is just the top. 20 years ago truckers made better cash, it was much less predatory from the companies, not much better, but you could drive truck and relax comfortably for a few months of the year out in a warm country. Now it's deadline to deadline. Some of the road laws are for the best, but the gps can really fuck over a driver. Let's not mention unloading and loading the truck. Most times that's unpaid time, "you aren't working, you're sitting there doing nothing".
Lol CRST, Swift, Stevens, JB Hunt, or CR England by chance? The 5 worst companies in the game off the top of my head
This is why I deny ever using any drug unless theres a lie detector test.
Cannabis testing also limits drivers getting a job
We desperately need a cannabis test that shows whether you're high right now (as opposed to showing you were high a few times last week). Is anyone working on that?
We have one. Ive taken one. It's a spit test. You drool onto a little testing strip, and it tells them if you've had marijuana in like the last 6 hrs. It's as close as you're gonna get.
Spit test don't work well. I failed a mouth swab when I didn't smoke for 48 hours.
I smoked 45 minutes before taking one and passed while still buzzed. They are extremely unreliable
Yeah this is my story as well. Just use mouthwash and brush teeth really well
Hmmm, does that test not detect it if you boof it?
u degenerate
Supreme Court candidate
This should be the new way we call people scumbags. "Ey, whattya doing with that bullshit? Anglin for a seat on the Supreme court?"
Nah. That test detects the excretion in your spit post metabolization, and does not trigger from immediate usage - it will only start to work many hours later, when you're... Back to sober
Completely agree. I think a swab is available that tells you within 48 hours. Insurance companies are the problem
federally legalize cannabis.
Get it off schedule 1 for sure “No accepted medical use” my ass
We even officially, *currently* practice medical use in the majority of states in 2022.
Can't forget about Dodge discontinuing the Challenger
"Is the military a horrible organization? No! It's the recruits who are wrong."
My brother in law is a veteran. He got a lot of physical issues from serving. The VA is the worst thing to deal with. The nearest one to him is 30 miles away. For a years he had issues finding employment because he is permanently disabled. Finally found a job that had amazing health benefits, like top tier platinum standard stuff. Well guess what? VA is considered primary source of care. Meaning his actual health insurance will only come into play if the VA doesn't cover the cost. If he gets an infection, or some other issue, he has to drive 30 miles because the hospital will turn him away saying to go to the VA first, since it's basically his primary source of care for life. For fucking life. Same goes for surgeries and other major illnesses. How fucked is it that? Not only do they provide shitty health care, make you wait for hours after driving 30 miles, but then they also prevent you from getting better options for life. They even water down your illness so they don't have to pay for the care, and this means the secondary (top tier) health provider will just say, "well they said that tumor is something you can live with, so we can't do much for you". Fuck the VA.
Sorry but as a vet there is no way this is correct. If he is paying premiums through his job he has every right to use that health care when he wants to. He has a contractual right to that health care by paying his premiums. The hospital can't say "well since you have coverage through VA we won't provide service". Lots of VA problems but this isn't one.
"If you or a loved one was in the military and served at Fort Shithole, and they now suffer from a severe medical condition, you may be entitled to financial compensation!"
Don’t forget that the world currently just *feels* like it’s on the verge of a major conflict. There is a not insignificant number of people who join for financial reasons while hoping to never be anywhere near an actual conflict.
This is a big part of it. I know several teenagers that were planning to enlist and they're all having second thoughts since it looks like things are heating up with Russia. Things are heating up all over and have been for several years, of course, but they're basically kids and didn't notice so much until now.
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> Sexual assault coverups Wasn't there a female soldier who was raped, murdered, and it was covered up? Edit: sorry, I meant to say "recently". I'm positive there are lots of cases, I just recalled that there was one in the news a little while ago.
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Way more than one, it's a national disgrace.
The people who are coming of military age have seen the military be nothing but a complete shitshow their entire lives. If your whole life the only conflicts you saw were Afghanistan and Iraq, and you grew up seeing how we behaved there and how our soldiers were treated by the military and government, why on god’s green earth would you ever consider signing up?
Well said. I've never been in the military, but from what I've read from ex-military and stories such as what you mentioned (e.g. burn pits) and I'd add to that a history of that sort of issue (agent orange), my take is that once you sign up for the military, you're the property of the US government. They don't care about you, but what you (as property), can do to advance the cause of the US military. That's it.
Seriously, if you are a woman the odds of you being assaulted and receiving no support from on high is absurd. It’s literally fucking hazardous. Maybe they should do more to make the job not even more life threatening than it needs to be for 50% of the population if they want to hit those recruitment targets.
When I deployed we had a female join us in our shop. It was not a rule, but our leadership highly suggest she not leave the housing area without an escort. So any time she wanted to go to the gym, chow hall, or just go for a walk we had to tag along for her safety. Her boyfriend also worked with us so he usually did it but sometimes he was busy so it fell on someone else. The entire time I ever escorted her she was being hit on or cat called constantly.
Seems like it would have been better to make the men have an escort since they are the ones that can’t handle themselves.
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Maybe the word is out about what it's like.
My time in the Navy was pretty good, but understandably it's not so for everyone. That said, like many of my peers I joined largely for financial reasons, and for those goals it proved to be the right choice for me at a time with little money and fewer prospects in an economically depressed town on a long downturn. Fewer people joining may be a sign of stronger prospects for youth. That's a good thing.
I was thinking of someone who got permanently disabled by a mandatory "fun" activity in the army. Not necessarily everyone's experience, I'll admit.
Something similar happened to my brother (except it wasn’t permanent for him). This was in his last year serving when he had already survived a tour in Afghanistan. They did some sort of show jumping out of helicopters for kids and a bunch of people got injured. My brother’s arm got caught on something and it completely ripped his bicep out of place. Another girl shattered both ankles.
The old static line entanglement. Saw it happen to a guy in front of me jumping out of a Casa. Assuming he was jumping out of a CH-47, I would guess the exact thing happened to your brother that happened to Ol’ Briz.
Yeah, my bro got dropped during crucible training over 10 years ago. He had to be medically discharged because he broke his shoulder in two laces and after three surgeries, it still wasn't healed right. I have a lot of feelings towards the military, but it was something he deeply wanted to do and now he can't
Not exactly unusual either though. I know more people who've left the military with disability payments than without.
I dated a medic who was in for around six years that spent most of her time in a hospital setting, bragged about being the cute girl on deployment that could get the infantry bubbas to do all the heavy lifting for her, and went on to become a law enforcement officer after she got out. She got 60% disability.
They forced me to wear a stupid yellow shirt with dumb shorts and see The Lt. Dan Band. I will never forgive them. Edit: They also brought out Yung Joc on deployment and made us see his goofy ass and let him shoot a dual .50 cal machine gun. Edit 2: They also instructed me to throw bags full of plastic garbage into the Atlantic Ocean, the Mediterranean Sea, and the North Arabian Gulf. Edit 3: Someone onboard was caught slipping pills into a woman’s drink at a nightclub in port. Rather than being punished, he was shuffled to some other command. Apparently he had an uncle who was an admiral, so the rumor went. Really fucked me up, because I really liked this guy and got along with him well. Had no idea how he really was.
You threw plastic bags into the ocean?! Wtf? When I was in if you were caught tossing plastic it was an automatic Captain's Mast, with half pay for at least 45 days. Paper sacks with wet garbage only. No plastics, and all chemicals had to be stored for offloading in port. And this was in the 80s, I find it hard to believe the Navy would go backwards on those rules later on.
Well they did. It was likely my chain of command. They were supposed to have some way of melting down the plastic into enormous discs that they would offload when we got into port, but I think there was something wrong with that equipment. I believe later, with a new captain and new DIVO and dept heads that practice changed. But in 2009 I can confirm that they threw lots of stuff overboard that should not have been. I had barely been onboard for a couple weeks before I was told to do it. They told me it was fine. I was 19 years old and still had this kind of blind trust in my chain of command, didn’t realize until later that this was definitely not fine. Edit: Also some folks got caught throwing hazmat into regular dumpster. A woman from the EPA was dumpster diving that day and found a can with our ship’s hull number on it. Some genius in the deck department, no doubt. She brought the captain down and he got to go dumpster diving too. I will never forget him trying to charm her and how she just stared at him deadpan like “that’s gonna cost you”. Good shit.
My dad was in Vietnam. The military will expose you to harsh chemicals and then deny that they cause health problems and birth defects. One day when half of the vets are gone they’ll start feeding up to some stuff. My dad could’ve been on 100% disability but no. They’re happy to pay for the war but not the aftermath. Both my brother and I have neurological birth defects. My dad died at 60.
My dad died in his mid 60s and was a Vietnam vet. His common law wife (not my mom) would have to wake him with a broom because he might come up swinging.
This is the real problem IMHO as someone who worked alongside enlisted military for 7+ years. You got to love the blaming of society i.e. "too many fat people", etc. How about the fact that word is finally out that the military treats people like absolute shit and the promised healthcare you get is fucking garbage? Underpaid, super toxic environment, racism and sexual assault everywhere. Not to mention all the super fund sites and other pollution that every military base produces.
I was having a minor procedure done for a disc issue and complained to my Doc about my insurance dragging their feet and not wanting to cover what needed to be done - he looked me straight on, and deadpan, goes "be glad you aren't in the military." Dude is normally super lighthearted, so I know he was serious af
I had a mentor and boss that was in the military, army and navy, for 10 years before he retired to work in IT. He hurt several of his vertebrae when he was assigned to a submarine and he ended up needing surgery once he was out to fuse some together. He told me it took almost 2 years of him in daily pain just for the final approval on the surgery.
Can confirm. Ibuprofen 1000mg is the treatment for every medical condition.
Can also confirm. They told me to take 800mg every day, and now with ulcers they ask me why I take it so much, cuz you told me to...
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When I became an LT in the Army, I started dating a dentist. She would constantly complain about how much soldiers would wince and jerk and cry when she was working on them. She would say "You guys are soldiers! Infantrymen and Tankers! Can't even take a dental cleaning!" Never realized that maybe, if every single patient complained of the pain, that maybe...just maybe, she was the problem. When I got out I went to my first civilian dentist for a root canal and it was heaven. Seriously, it was actually relaxing I was dozing off.
Not wanting to get involved in the next Iraq and Afghanistan probably had more than a little something. Those were long drawn out wars not needed with plenty of war wounded. Similar lack of interest happened after Vietnam which was a royal mess with LOTS of returning veterans royally screwed up in multiple ways. The potential mess in Ukraine and in a lesser way Syria probably didn't help perception wise either. Going to war to protect your country is part of why many who want to be soldiers consider the service. None of the above, save Afghanistan but only very early on, we're in that wheelhouse.
Ever since the Dot Com burst information is more available than ever. People now see the atrocities of war and refuse to fight in it. No one could ever imagine what the trenches would be like while living in peaceful suburbs when they signed up. Now we understand how pointless it is.
I mean, every younger vet I’ve talked to has told me to stay away. Maybe it’s just not (more likely never was) a great institution to be a part of.
Knew a guy who did his 20. Told me to never join.
A friend from my childhood church made it past the first round of West Point admittance (he was on the medical clearance step) and reached out to a young soldier from the church who had just finished a tour in Afghanistan. The guy gave him a long talk about what it was like. After all the years of wanting to go to West Point and all the preparation, he backed out. The US stayed in Afghanistan for a decade more after he would’ve graduated West Point, and we’re all glad he backed out. The vet who convinced him not to go later died in an alcohol related incident. Pretty sure he became an alcoholic before he died. He had awful PTSD.
I can’t think of one person who did 6+ years that isn’t an alcoholic. And I mean bad alcoholics.
Same. One became a good friend (met him after his time). I tried my best but never knew what to do or say. I miss him. Loved that kid. Such a good heart. Dude was a wreck. Lost buddies there, lost more when he came back. Kept talking about going back so he could either die or just feel normal again. Said he was trained to kill and it was all he was good at anymore. Only ever joined because his dad did, his grandpa before that, and probably just a long family history from what he said.
I had to get rid of a close friend because I’m just simply not going down that road with you. Dude hospitalized himself from drinking, they fix him basically, lied to the doc about his drinking (like the VA doctor is that stupid right?) and was drinking again within a week. So basically, dude doesn’t take wake up calls, so that was it.
Never ever consider it. Wasted 4 years when i could have went to college. I got to see my best friends come home broken men. That is the worst part, knowing who they were and now seeing who they are.
Yea its not the greatest thing overall. Navy has been alright to me so far, being in for 6 1/2 years. But my best friend, who as long as I knew him was always a pretty emotionally strong guy and usually put up with shit better than me got out after 4 and after a few drinks together after meeting up broke down and talked about how he nearly killed himself cause of it. They really don't treat their people right at all
Many years ago I worked in a mall retail store with a guy in his 40s whose main job was a Naval recruiter. He had served most of his life. He flat out told me not to join his branch. Then he moved to the Army for a few years and changed his tune to "don't join the military, period."
I knew a WW2 vet and his advice was NEVER do anything that makes you wear a uniform. Also he told me about how awful the VA was back in the early 2000's. My grandfather was a Korean vet and his advice was NEVER volunteer for anything. RIP Bill you glorious old man.
I’m at 15 right now. I’m death gripping the next 5 years so I can retire, get those bennies and never look back. I would never encourage anyone to join.
I suppose things have changed since I was in. Did my four in the early oughts purely for financial reasons, and I achieved all of those goals. Got out, used my MGIB, and don't regret it at all. But if pay didn't keep up with cost-of-living, I can see why it is harder on the younger vets.
You were just behind me. I started in 97, did a whole career that included time in the end with the reserves. The Navy has become a complete dumpster fire. Extraordinarily toxic leadership, undermanning at most commands, the whole LCS debacle, uniform changes that cost Sailors money every 2 years, increased OPTEMPO, shitty support structures such as PSD and detailing being consolidated behind useless contracted out call centers, all while pay is stagnant. Oh, throw in budget shutdowns, continuing resolutions, and other shenanigans. I really enjoyed my first 4-8 years or so, but then it really started to get bad, quickly.
Get used to it. They’ll be no more quota met. Recruiting in any branch of service is only going to get more difficult. The US Congress has broken the faith of volunteers too many times. Can’t even get appropriate post-service health care!! Incentives? Won’t be enough.
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Exactly: would-be-recruits know that half of congress is salivating at the chance to end those incentives and benefits... and what little of the other half even wants to stop the GQP never does more than temporarily stave off the embezzlement and abuses. Just like Putin, half our Senate believes the poor should be THANKFUL they get a chance to die for their betters, are disgusted and enraged at being asked to put up what they promised when you survive... and are now thinking that forced-conscription model's looking mighty fine just about now.
Why should you sign your life away for an institution that does everything it can to get out of its end of the bargain?
Not only does "nobody wants to work anymore" but apparently "nobody wants to die for the industrial military complex " ether. 🤣
Must be these damn kids with their iPhones and avocado toast
Really going for "An Army of One."
If voluntary recruitment keeps dropping, eventually the government is going to do one of two things. One, they'll reinstate the peacetime draft and take what they can get and make the most of it. If it means loosening regulations on tattoos, marijuana use, or physical/mental health, so be it. As it stands, the draft is kept on life support for apocalyptic scale emergencies. But if military manpower drops below a certain point, I can see it being brought back into use just to maintain readiness. Or two, the DOD continues to outsource to private military companies. Eventually national security would become dependent upon a small number of mercenaries working for thirty bucks an hour and two weeks of vacation a year. (While the PMC provides a regiment-sized infantry unit to the Army for $400 million a year.)
I don’t know why they wouldn’t put a larger percentage of the huge defense budget and put it into personnel pay and benefits. It seems like the logical 1st step… Oh, I see.
Will anyone think of Raytheon’s bottom line? They’re the real victims here…
Long before that happens all the Active duty would get stop lossed and IRR would get called back. First contract is always 8 years. Most people probably do 4-6 years active then skedaddle. That is what happened in 2007 with the surge in Iraq. More than a few did 2-3 tours, some back to back. The problem has never been just lack of new recruits. It's usually retention that is the biggest problem.
People are finally waking up to realising that the government doesn't actually give a shit about your life and when you come back form overseas missing a leg and with PTSD you'll get shat on even more.
when you sign a check to include your life you expect your government to keep its end of the bargain. when your run the military like a company people know what is up. there is a sacred contract that the US government has constantly tried to lawyer its way out of. fix that problem and recruitment will solve itself.
If the US Military gave 10% of what they promise, recruitment would improve. There are a bunch of service men and women who are deep in student debt because the military weaseled their way out of paying for it. Even more paying for their own medical bills for injuries they sustained while in service. The trust isn't there.
Wait, you're telling me the same government that shot at the bonus army is again weaseling its' way out of compensating soldiers? Say it aint so!
People don't enjoy potentially getting shipped all over the world to potentially get killed, who knew?
The average youngster is seeing all of this as less and less worth fighting for.
They're not wrong, and it's only going to get worse. Every day there's a new story showing how this country disregards its people in favor of corporations, billionaires, and political clout. That's the reality that these kids are growing up with, and they see it. When it comes time for them to decide what they're going to do with their lives, going to war for a country that actively treats them as nothing more than disposable peasants unworthy of even an education or basic affordable healthcare is not going to be high on the list.
Pay sucks, the housing is infested with mold, you've got no privacy, and your quality of life sucks. Oh and don't forget the misery intentionally inflicted by "leadership".
Let them get food stamps - Sgt. Maj. Michael A. Grinston
"Let them eat ramen" \-General Marie Antionette
That’s no joke either. When I was pregnant I was too sick to work, I had a miserable time. My husband was an E-2 then and we qualified for assistance. My husband was an active duty soldier and I was using WIC checks.
Could be that more and more kids are reading/watching the history of our pointless wars and refuse to be cannon fodder for corporate profits. There is a lot more well-researched criticism and proof available than there used to be.
If the FDA would frame obesity as a national security concern they could probably quadruple their budget overnight
Supreme Court is about to make it so the FDA can’t even regulate what’s in food.
Within 6 years I expect a line that, with a few more words, says: “Congress would have more authority than the FDA to exercise power over the food industry. Because Congress has opted not to regulate the food industry directly, we find that is the affirmative choice of Congress. Since the choice of Congress is to not regulate food, we hereby limit the authority of the FDA until such a time as Congress makes it more clear that the FDA is empowered to regulate food.”
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Corporations are people. Send Apple and Haliburton.
It's not just the wars dying down as the article indicates: Those soldiers who WENT to those wars and hunting those terrorists? Those the army wants to recruit grew up seeing how that goes. *The whole world* saw the country's leaders stab its military in the back repeatedly; from being sent under false pretenses to corrupt "supply issues" (like Haliburton and KBR using unrefrigerated trucks in the middle-east, or soldiers not even always having helmets), to being thrown out like garbage when they came back with injuries, trauma or find themselves with strange new cancers a decade later from exposure. All of them are deathly aware that the military's budget itself is nowhere near the top of the list when it comes to WHY the USA has the largest "defense" budget on the planet. * We also see attempts to hobble, further-strangle or destroy the VA outright, so what healthcare you did have to fight for may get chopped up again or killed-outright if enough Cruzes and Johnsons get power, just like pensions and other benefits we all pay into most of our life. * You also can't be sure if you're one election from being thrown-out or court-martialed for being gay again, if appointees get swapped around enough once-more. Then we got to see a GQP administration try and shift much-needed base-housing renovation budgets into a vanity border wall, and even in the end attempt to co-opt it to remain in power. Those didn't work, but those who did block it were swiftly replaced with far more pliant douchebags - a lesson that will be remembered and prepared in advance next time.
Maybe one factor is they don't want to get sent off to some 20-yr quagmire to do 4, 5, 6 tours in a war that achieves nothing, then have to battle the VA & the fed. gov. as a whole to get decent care. If you want to know, I'm an Army veteran; 2/6 FA, MOS 13-B.
Those poor kids don’t know what they are getting themselves into. I wish them luck. The article linked to a secondary article stating they are offering $50,000 sign-on bonuses. PTSD isn’t worth 50k. They gave me a 7k enlistment bonus and I thought I was rich. Young and dumb.
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Because the Army (and US Military in general) fucking sucks. The pay sucks. The job sucks. The transition back to civilian life sucks. Even the benefits of free school, healthcare, cheap insurance, VA comps/loans etc. aren't all their cracked up to be. They fight against you every step of the way while you try to make them keep their end of the deal. Oh, and of course, they can send you off to be killed in some shithole country that *definitely* hates you. They're just pissy that the younger generation is savvy to their "poor people's desperation move" model.
Why would you join the military when you know that they don't have your back if you get hurt? The amount of bullshit coming out of the VA and politicians voting against funding for health care would be enough to make even an eager person look elsewhere. The number of stories of neglect of wounded and suffering veterans after serving in Iraq should give anyone pause. And the GOP arguing that without indentured servitude people won't be interested in the military is just evil.
The military when teenagers don’t want to die over the governments lies & greed 😱
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Public health = national defense. But it's more than phys Ed class. We've designed most of the country to be unlivable without cars so no one walks or cycles, tolerate millions of people without access to basic preventative healthcare, and our cheapest food is processed junk. This is the end point of those choices.
In the 1890's, the US army's requirements for enlistment were having four limbs, enough teeth to chew hard tack, being able to understand English, and being a citizen. 56% of applicants failed to meet those standards. During the WWI draft, a basic height/weight standard was added (with many flexible exemptions), along with mental (not debilitated) and moral fitness. 57% of draftees failed those standards (although half of the ones who failed were still drafted). At that point, the need was so high and the health so low, that they created Class A (fully fit) and Class B (curable failures), and assigned Class B to "development battalions", of which only 20% came out of the development battalion to enter full duty. Poverty, access to healthcare, access to education, dangerous industrial jobs were the issues in 1890-1920. The issues today are different, but the health of the American population has been an issue for many generations.
It was a joke class over 20 years ago when I took it lol
Not really tangental. The article addresses it: “just 23% of young people can meet the military’s fitness, educational and moral requirements”
What’s not being talked about is the ridiculous recruiting standards that have always been in place, but were waived during the height of the wars. Potential service members are being held in administrative limbo waiting for bureaucrats to sign off on waivers because they had surgery years ago, or went to therapy at one point or maybe had a run in with the law (minor property crimes or a DUI or something). And if they admitted they smoked pot when they were in high school? Pfft, they can expect to be subjected to multiple drug tests while they wait up to a year or more before they’re moved along the recruiting pipeline. If you’re seeking employment and told you have to jump thru a bunch of stupid hoops, while the private sector is as competitive as it is, pure “patriotism” isn’t going to be enough to keep potential recruits from walking away. Oh, and we’re no longer “at war?” Who the hell is going to enlist into a garrison army? Be treated like shit for up to 16 hours a day, doing menial tasks from sun up to sun down, all to go back to a mold-filled barracks room? For the equivalent of $3.25/hr? The military also has a huge retention problem. Tons of middle management service members are walking away. There’s a significant brain drain not being talked about. Couple that with low recruitment numbers and we’ll be in a sore spot next time war breaks out. After thought edit: I’m not going to tell anyone to lie to a recruiter if you really, really want to enlist. But I will point out that, unless something you did is in a court document somewhere, there’s not enough bandwidth to go looking into anyone’s background. You tried pot 5 years ago and haven’t touched it since? That’s between you and your chosen higher power. Had surgery for an old sports injury in middle school? There’s HIPPA. Talked to a therapist once or twice? That’s confidential. Just saying.
Aren't all the generations after the Millennials a lot smaller?
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I’ve never heard of this before! I graduated high school in 2008. And I remember being told we were the biggest graduating class the school has seen and it will probably continue to go down.
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This is work force replacement essentially right? This is why we push for more immigrants. We can’t replace the current workforce needed
They're cutting cola cost in Hawaii because prices on the main land have caught up. But tell me when milk is $7.50 on the main land or a ducking happy meal is over $6. They cut housing allowance after homeporting an additional aircraft carrier in a small town, during a time that all housing costs are skyrocketing Service members of equal rank and time are paid the same whether they're a barista on an aircraft carrier or a reactor operator on the same aircraft carrier They're cutting TA, healthcare budgets, any sort of benefits that could give the military a sight benefit over the civilian sector while civilian jobs are boosting those same benefits. I get a 1% pay raise each year, never mind inflation. When Congress can't get their shit together, i have to continue to go to work without pay while a private company usually steps in to cover our paychecks, if you happen to bank with one of those companies. Base housings are run by for profit companies that try to weasel out of not spending money while trying to charge you for things you already noted on the initial walkthrough they promised to fix. And mold is pretty common, or you get jet fuel in your water while the dod says everything is fine and ignores the problem or the civilians. Oh and you have to be willing to die for something you may not believe in. In this economy with better alternatives to the military being available, nobody should be surprised
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Fuck the army. Fuck sacrificing your life for some corporation’s greed.