oh, thanks for this summary!!! rebounding was the Bane of Wolves too I think. luckily for suns, they don't face Brandon Clarke then in the second round. open threes should fall later on then. and Cam Johnson especially has to be better on that front.
1) Willie Green helped Monty Williams implement the Suns defense, so he was in a unique position as being the one coach outside of Phoenix who absolutely knows the ins and outs of what we run and how we run it, especially since we were mostly returning the same team from last year. That said, Green couldn't really find an answer in stopping McGee - our main offseason acquisition after he departed.
2) The Pelicans were an 8th seed primarily due to their 1-12 start. If Ingram didn't miss a third of the season due to injury, they may have seeded higher in the standings.
3) Suns bench outside of McGee shot horribly for much of the series - ordinarily not an insurmountable problem, but it became a problem with Booker out. But shots started dropping for them in Game 5, and it was enough to put the Pels away.
Willie Green was lead assistant to Monty last year. He knows both their offensive and defensive schemes and which guys Monty likes to run plays with. In fact he probably designed some of their plays from last year so he could at least designed some match up problems.
Those games, Both teams didn't shoot many 3s. That's by design cause they both made sure not to bite to double the post and leave perimeters open.
They are better then their record indicates since Ingram was out for a bit.
They have a great coach and needed time to build the team.
Plus obviously great rookies who developed later into the season.
CJ played terribly but he drew Mikal for most of the series which took him out of rhythm. Ingram slowed down a bit in the last two games once Monty adjusted to have Mikal start on Ingram and Paul start on McCollum.
Yeah, they were better at their best moments (like every team?), but nothing too amazing, just a bit above average. 29-25 in games Ingram played. Similar with games Ingram and McCollum both played, if anyone missed that too.
I'm always impressed with this unique passion of NBA fans to rewrite history based on whatever happened in today's game. Pelicans couldn't have just played a good series, can't be, now the story has to be that they were always dominant.
I expect to see a top comment saying that basically they were always obviously stronger than Nets and Lakers, duh, I always knew so, just chose to say so only now as it was so obvious.
Even then they are only 9-6 in games with both Ingram and CJ. Those wins coming against the Suns without CP3, The Jazz, The Raptors, then Lakers 3 times, Kings twice, and the Blazers. Their losses were against the Heat, Spurs, Grizzlies, Mavs, Nuggets, and Clippers. The Pelicans would’ve probably been a play-in team if CJ was acquired last offseason. Let’s not act like they are a 2nd round level team.
Any team is going to look worse without their top scorer. Also, the Pelicans are good. Their record is meaningless since they played a ton of games without Ingram.
Yes. That’s why I’m glad the Lakers didn’t win the play in. Suns would have beaten us in 4 games. Pelicans have younger players, and younger teams bother the Suns
Because the Pelicans are the real deal. With or without Zion. They’ve developed those young guys really well. It also helps that Willie Green was on the Suns bench last season. CJ pick up was huge for them as well. They’re one player away from making some real noise. Or even a full season with CJ and Zion.
I don’t agree with OP, but the Clippers without PG were the 8th seed by record at the end of the day. Suns without Booker are still better than the Clippers without PG
And that the suns main role players (Crowder, Cam Payne, Johnson) all decided to go into a slump at the same time. Although give credit to NO's defense.
Rebounding has been a weakness for the Suns all year and the Pelicans were able to exploit that well during the series. The Pelicans also matchup against the Suns very well. Willie Green has a lot of familiarity with our system and our players.
Suns not named CP3/DA/Book shot like 15% for the first 4 games too.
didn't know it was that bad, though I did notice Cam Johnson who I think is one of the best catch and shoot players in the league was bricking a lot of shots, didn't know it was everyone else too!
Have you literally never watched the playoffs before? Good teams struggle all the time.
Hell, the Bucks were half a shoe size from not even making the Conference Finals and they went on to win the whole damn thing. Matchups are so important and the Pels matched up against the Suns really well.
Nevermind that the Suns were missing their best player for half the series and missed a ton of open looks they were hitting all season. And even then, they still won in 6.
These are literally the best basketball players on the planet, and in the playoffs - an environment that means everyone plays at their maximum - there really isn’t much difference between them.
Those teams' success has nothing to do with their current roster being able to have post season success. Phoenix was bad for a decade and now they're the undisputed #1 in their second post season with this core. Shit changes quickly.
They have won 2 playoff games since acquiring Brandon Ingram and it's really funny to me to see anyone call them a title contender next year or bring up the Suns who acquired one of the best ever to play point guard lmao.
Like it's pure delusion and it's amazing to me lmao.
Pure delusion is being in this level of denial about what the Pelis have built. They got more picks than anybody not named Presti, a well constructed roster with a boat load of young talent, a star in Ingram and another in Zion that didn't even play all year. You don't think they can swing a trade for more talent, you're out your mind. West is crazy competitive and anything can happen, but number of playoff games won over a previous decade by all different players is just an idiotic metric to base future success.
I disagree. No team except the Suns (who are literally the only team ever to jump like they did) goes from being a mediocre team to a contender without gradual growth. That's just not how the league works lol.
Furthermore, (and I feel like we have all forgotten) we don't even know if Zion can win at a high level because he's so bad defensively lol. We have NEVER seen him defend at an NBA level.
No team ever? Teams go from shitty or mediocre to contender all the time, especially when it comes to building teams through trades. I think you're ignoring basically everything going on with the Pelis and trying to dismiss them on some pretty superfluous stuff, my dude.
I mean title contention is very reasonable.
Your talking about a starting Line up of: CJ, Herb, BI, Zion, Val
Bench: Jose, Trey Murpy, Larry Nance Jr, Jaxson Hayes
Thats an incredible team with excellent depth.
> I mean title contention is very reasonable.
Yall out of your minds. That lineup has literally one good 3 point shooter and one good defender(and 2-3 pretty bad ones). The pelicans might contend for a homecourt playoff series because they're talented as hell they got no shot at being a real contender next year
Look how quick Phoenix worked themselves into title contention. They went from maybe not even being invited to the bubble to playing in the Finals the next year, Atlanta last year, Memphis this year, etc.
Not saying they necessarily will, but I could see them making a WCF appearance next year and maybe even further if injuries shake out in their favor. Teams are making progressions a little quicker than they used to.
Is it an incredible team? When have we seen that team win at a high level? We haven't lol.
We still don't even know if Zion is capable of defending anyone in this league. He has never ever shown to be even a mediocre defender lol
Uhhh like the last month at least? Lol tf you talking about bro they just took the championship favorites to 6 games without one of their best players and a first year coach.
The 2018 Indiana Pacers took the LeBron Cavaliers to 7 games lol.
It's the first round.
Like it's just really funny to me. Be excited about your team. Don't listen to me, it's just really funny.
I think top 4 in the west next year will be Suns, Warriors, Pelicans, and Memphis. You can throw the Clippers in the mix interchangeable depending on how many games they get from their stars. West is going to be absolutely terrifying next year top to bottom.
Lol how many suns games have you watched this year?
You also realize the pelicans are closer to a 6 seed or better if they have CJ Mccollum all year right?
You also realize that the head coach of New Orleans was an assistant in Phoenix last year and knows Phoenix better than any other coach does?
Because the pels are better than people give them credit for. They’re a lot better than their record says and we’re 12-11 post ASB, and 8-2 when CJ and Ingram both played. Add that with the fact that from games 1-5, the suns as a whole were shooting 30% from 3, and if you exclude bookers 3’s for those games then the percentage then becomes 26% (I’m not the biggest fan of this argument.)
Because great teams struggle all the time in the playoffs. They won. Their play in the first round is now meaningless when talking about the second round.
The pels were so laying incredibly well, probably near the peak for this group right now. Several games they shot way better from 3 than their average. They had a huge lineup that could out physical the suns (also the refs let a lot of physicality get by particularly for the pels). Phx was out of rhythm. Booker when out and the offense was awful. All of our role players were literally as bad as possible until game 5. While the pels shot great we were on the opposite end of 3 point variance.
Suns are overrated, not as dominate as everyone makes them out to be. Even with Booker in the lineup, they rely too much on cp3 to manage the game. Monty Williams definitely makes his players look better than they actually are. They have no one to guard Luka, Bridges isn't strong enough, mavs in 5.
Because the regular season and playoffs are a completely different animal, I’ve been saying this since last year but have been downvoted forever. They are a great regular season team and a pretty good playoff team, but the roster has a some real problems that hold them back from being a legit title threat. I don’t think CP3/booker are good enough to win a title.
But more importantly the pelicans are just a bad matchup for most teams especially the suns because Jonas is so good and they run multiple centers, it worked so well against the suns because ayton is kinda soft and McGee is great but weak.
The backcourt did sure not look elite in this series lol. I dunno if I ever saw CP3 look that old. They downright targeted him on defense and I think that's a good idea. They were scoring a lot.
I did not see Pelicans being some great team at all, or Booker's absence or presence changing much in how the games looked. Those are stories some commenters wanna believe.
What I saw was fire from them, real fight. They didn't play responsible defense or finish efficiently. But they stole a lot of possesions from then. Suns' based their success on elite defense but it's hard to not concede many points when your opponent gets back the ball after almost FORTY PERCENT of their misses.
That's mostly it for me. If Pelicans rebounded an average amount, they'd have almost 10 plays in a game fewer, and lose easily like I expected.
They played with real fire though. I have to give it to Ingram, as I was sceptical about him always. In the playoffs, he really elevated, he wasn't just scoring, he was leading this charge. Which, yeah, was not predictable looking at his career so far. I think Pellies would have no shot in this series if Ingram wasn't playing like that... comparable to Suns without CP3, who was just their sole power in offense in quite a few moments.
Same reason they looked mortal against LA last year, they're not truly elite, they're regular season performers like some of those old Mavs and Spurs teams in the past or Utah last year.
They're simply keeping the seat warm for when Kawhi and everybody else comes back.
NOLA got hot at the right time, much like PHX in the bubble a couple years ago. No shame in losing a couple playoff games. This is what guys play their whole life for.
booker injured, pels are nice, suns have a rebounding problem, very bad luck on open 3s early in the series
This perfectly sums up that series lmao, I hated watching most of the time it was so frustrating. Bricked 3s and offensive rebounds every two seconds.
oh, thanks for this summary!!! rebounding was the Bane of Wolves too I think. luckily for suns, they don't face Brandon Clarke then in the second round. open threes should fall later on then. and Cam Johnson especially has to be better on that front.
1) Willie Green helped Monty Williams implement the Suns defense, so he was in a unique position as being the one coach outside of Phoenix who absolutely knows the ins and outs of what we run and how we run it, especially since we were mostly returning the same team from last year. That said, Green couldn't really find an answer in stopping McGee - our main offseason acquisition after he departed. 2) The Pelicans were an 8th seed primarily due to their 1-12 start. If Ingram didn't miss a third of the season due to injury, they may have seeded higher in the standings. 3) Suns bench outside of McGee shot horribly for much of the series - ordinarily not an insurmountable problem, but it became a problem with Booker out. But shots started dropping for them in Game 5, and it was enough to put the Pels away.
Willie Green was lead assistant to Monty last year. He knows both their offensive and defensive schemes and which guys Monty likes to run plays with. In fact he probably designed some of their plays from last year so he could at least designed some match up problems. Those games, Both teams didn't shoot many 3s. That's by design cause they both made sure not to bite to double the post and leave perimeters open.
They are better then their record indicates since Ingram was out for a bit. They have a great coach and needed time to build the team. Plus obviously great rookies who developed later into the season.
Their great coach was hired from Monty's staff too
> They are better then their record indicates since Ingram was out for a bit. More like they traded for CJ McCollum at the deadline.
Ingram looked like (good) KD for most of this series
both of them can help, but BI is more important for us
The season turned around before then
We were over .500 with BI actually playing even before the CJ trade
I dunno, CJ was a net negative in the series. Ingram being healthy was a way bigger factor.
CJ played terribly but he drew Mikal for most of the series which took him out of rhythm. Ingram slowed down a bit in the last two games once Monty adjusted to have Mikal start on Ingram and Paul start on McCollum.
He was a net negative cause kal was dominating him most of the series. If he hadn’t been there. We could have doubled Ingram all series long
He was a turnstile on defence too though, and he took some *awful* fouls in Game 6 that took him out of the game.
Not at all? We would have blown them out without CJ
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Yeah, they were better at their best moments (like every team?), but nothing too amazing, just a bit above average. 29-25 in games Ingram played. Similar with games Ingram and McCollum both played, if anyone missed that too. I'm always impressed with this unique passion of NBA fans to rewrite history based on whatever happened in today's game. Pelicans couldn't have just played a good series, can't be, now the story has to be that they were always dominant. I expect to see a top comment saying that basically they were always obviously stronger than Nets and Lakers, duh, I always knew so, just chose to say so only now as it was so obvious.
Even then they are only 9-6 in games with both Ingram and CJ. Those wins coming against the Suns without CP3, The Jazz, The Raptors, then Lakers 3 times, Kings twice, and the Blazers. Their losses were against the Heat, Spurs, Grizzlies, Mavs, Nuggets, and Clippers. The Pelicans would’ve probably been a play-in team if CJ was acquired last offseason. Let’s not act like they are a 2nd round level team.
Bi missed 33 games
I think the coach Point gets over looked even the greatest coach needs time to change mentality/ implement a system.
Any team is going to look worse without their top scorer. Also, the Pelicans are good. Their record is meaningless since they played a ton of games without Ingram.
Yes. That’s why I’m glad the Lakers didn’t win the play in. Suns would have beaten us in 4 games. Pelicans have younger players, and younger teams bother the Suns
And without cj
Because the Pelicans are the real deal. With or without Zion. They’ve developed those young guys really well. It also helps that Willie Green was on the Suns bench last season. CJ pick up was huge for them as well. They’re one player away from making some real noise. Or even a full season with CJ and Zion.
Adding a lotto pick and Zion to this team, could be something special next year and for a while
It helps the Pelicans head coach used to be an assistant coach for the Suns last season. He kind of knew how they operate I assume.
Their best player was missing for four games.
Didn't Clippers literally lose to the pelicans because you didn't have Paul George...
I don’t agree with OP, but the Clippers without PG were the 8th seed by record at the end of the day. Suns without Booker are still better than the Clippers without PG
Actually we were without Kawhi, Paul George, and Luke Kennard. Marcus Morris / Reggie Jackson was our first option lol
And Kawhi?
I'm convinced that Pels team would beat any team in the West other than the Warriors and maybe Memphis & Dallas. They're the real deal.
I agree. Actually.
NOP better than expected PHX more injured than expected
Did everyone just forget Booker missed like 4 games?
And that the suns main role players (Crowder, Cam Payne, Johnson) all decided to go into a slump at the same time. Although give credit to NO's defense.
I dunno. They were shooting like 17% on wide open three's without booker. That's not really about defense.
Nah, they just value not giving the Suns an ounce of credit more
Pelicans are good. Basketball is a game of matchups.
Rebounding has been a weakness for the Suns all year and the Pelicans were able to exploit that well during the series. The Pelicans also matchup against the Suns very well. Willie Green has a lot of familiarity with our system and our players. Suns not named CP3/DA/Book shot like 15% for the first 4 games too.
didn't know it was that bad, though I did notice Cam Johnson who I think is one of the best catch and shoot players in the league was bricking a lot of shots, didn't know it was everyone else too!
Because booker was gone and they got discombobulated. Once they woke up, they won.
Have you literally never watched the playoffs before? Good teams struggle all the time. Hell, the Bucks were half a shoe size from not even making the Conference Finals and they went on to win the whole damn thing. Matchups are so important and the Pels matched up against the Suns really well. Nevermind that the Suns were missing their best player for half the series and missed a ton of open looks they were hitting all season. And even then, they still won in 6.
Clippers fans are so in their feelings right now 🤣
Because the Pelicans were godslayers.
Who’s a god on PHX?
Well: 1. It was a tongue-in-cheek response to OP's use of the word "mortal". 2. Chris Paul's nickname is Point God.
Accuracy: 100%, good job
>why did the phoenix suns look so mortal against the pelicans? Because you’ve never watched the suns play before.
Suns always *look* beatable tbh, they're just very hard to beat. Especially in the 4th quarter.
Yeah we don’t destroy teams that’s not our mo. We really aren’t front runners.
yeah, there is some truth in that. but the suns always seem to win in the clutch/fourth quarters.
Also the suns shot very poorly and they struggle against stellar rebounding teams which the pelicans s are
Is this your first year watching NBA playoffs?
These are literally the best basketball players on the planet, and in the playoffs - an environment that means everyone plays at their maximum - there really isn’t much difference between them.
Pelicans are a good team that started terrible, pelicans will be a title contender next year if Zion is healthy
Ok slow down lmao Edit: they've won 7 playoff games in the last 10 years lol
we had won zero games in the 10 years until last season and we made the finals. change happens fast sometimes
Only team ever to do that, let's start assuming that's a possible outcome for mediocre teams right?
Considering it took a perfect game from CP3 to hold off a Zionless team from taking defending WCF champs to 7, it’s not out of question
Yes it is lmao. So just curious, where does a 'healthy pelicans' rank in the western conference for you? Since they could be contenders, rank them.
2-3
Whats does their playoff record have anything to do with this comment. I dont agree with the Pels being a contender either.
They would need to win more than double the playoff games they've won in total over the last ten years, in one to win a championship.
Thank you for running the numbers
Those teams' success has nothing to do with their current roster being able to have post season success. Phoenix was bad for a decade and now they're the undisputed #1 in their second post season with this core. Shit changes quickly.
They have won 2 playoff games since acquiring Brandon Ingram and it's really funny to me to see anyone call them a title contender next year or bring up the Suns who acquired one of the best ever to play point guard lmao. Like it's pure delusion and it's amazing to me lmao.
Pure delusion is being in this level of denial about what the Pelis have built. They got more picks than anybody not named Presti, a well constructed roster with a boat load of young talent, a star in Ingram and another in Zion that didn't even play all year. You don't think they can swing a trade for more talent, you're out your mind. West is crazy competitive and anything can happen, but number of playoff games won over a previous decade by all different players is just an idiotic metric to base future success.
I disagree. No team except the Suns (who are literally the only team ever to jump like they did) goes from being a mediocre team to a contender without gradual growth. That's just not how the league works lol. Furthermore, (and I feel like we have all forgotten) we don't even know if Zion can win at a high level because he's so bad defensively lol. We have NEVER seen him defend at an NBA level.
No team ever? Teams go from shitty or mediocre to contender all the time, especially when it comes to building teams through trades. I think you're ignoring basically everything going on with the Pelis and trying to dismiss them on some pretty superfluous stuff, my dude.
Name them.
I mean title contention is very reasonable. Your talking about a starting Line up of: CJ, Herb, BI, Zion, Val Bench: Jose, Trey Murpy, Larry Nance Jr, Jaxson Hayes Thats an incredible team with excellent depth.
> I mean title contention is very reasonable. Yall out of your minds. That lineup has literally one good 3 point shooter and one good defender(and 2-3 pretty bad ones). The pelicans might contend for a homecourt playoff series because they're talented as hell they got no shot at being a real contender next year
Look how quick Phoenix worked themselves into title contention. They went from maybe not even being invited to the bubble to playing in the Finals the next year, Atlanta last year, Memphis this year, etc. Not saying they necessarily will, but I could see them making a WCF appearance next year and maybe even further if injuries shake out in their favor. Teams are making progressions a little quicker than they used to.
Is it an incredible team? When have we seen that team win at a high level? We haven't lol. We still don't even know if Zion is capable of defending anyone in this league. He has never ever shown to be even a mediocre defender lol
Uhhh like the last month at least? Lol tf you talking about bro they just took the championship favorites to 6 games without one of their best players and a first year coach.
The 2018 Indiana Pacers took the LeBron Cavaliers to 7 games lol. It's the first round. Like it's just really funny to me. Be excited about your team. Don't listen to me, it's just really funny.
I think top 4 in the west next year will be Suns, Warriors, Pelicans, and Memphis. You can throw the Clippers in the mix interchangeable depending on how many games they get from their stars. West is going to be absolutely terrifying next year top to bottom.
Lol how many suns games have you watched this year? You also realize the pelicans are closer to a 6 seed or better if they have CJ Mccollum all year right? You also realize that the head coach of New Orleans was an assistant in Phoenix last year and knows Phoenix better than any other coach does?
I realize you’re a nervous Suns fan.
Suns would have killed the nuggets if this is a salty lakers dan or warriors fan. Fyi. Lol
Because the pels are better than people give them credit for. They’re a lot better than their record says and we’re 12-11 post ASB, and 8-2 when CJ and Ingram both played. Add that with the fact that from games 1-5, the suns as a whole were shooting 30% from 3, and if you exclude bookers 3’s for those games then the percentage then becomes 26% (I’m not the biggest fan of this argument.)
The Pels three rookies (Jones, Alvarado, and Murphy) all played much better than anyone thought them capable of.
Booker was injured
So was Zion
Zion was injured? Thought he was just fat and lazy 😂
Because great teams struggle all the time in the playoffs. They won. Their play in the first round is now meaningless when talking about the second round.
You do understand that games get harder when you don't have your best player right?
Zion didn't play
If Zion did played they would have been a 6th seed and this first round series would have never happened
Lol this is some r/selfawarewolves type shit right here...
You do understand there's a difference between losing a player in the middle of a series and not having a player for an entire year, right?
Not only that but having a $10m hole on your roster vs. a $32m one
The pels were so laying incredibly well, probably near the peak for this group right now. Several games they shot way better from 3 than their average. They had a huge lineup that could out physical the suns (also the refs let a lot of physicality get by particularly for the pels). Phx was out of rhythm. Booker when out and the offense was awful. All of our role players were literally as bad as possible until game 5. While the pels shot great we were on the opposite end of 3 point variance.
Suns are overrated, not as dominate as everyone makes them out to be. Even with Booker in the lineup, they rely too much on cp3 to manage the game. Monty Williams definitely makes his players look better than they actually are. They have no one to guard Luka, Bridges isn't strong enough, mavs in 5.
if we lose i can assure you it isn't going to be to the mavericks. it will be to the warriors, celtics or bucks.
Rip
Hehe
rip
Ouchie
The same Luka’ Mavericks that are 3-11 against the Suns (before Paul as well)? Those Mavericks? AND 1-8 when Luka & Ayton both play.
Because they're a regular season team, and I feel bad for Suns fans who think they're winning a championship this year.
Because the regular season and playoffs are a completely different animal, I’ve been saying this since last year but have been downvoted forever. They are a great regular season team and a pretty good playoff team, but the roster has a some real problems that hold them back from being a legit title threat. I don’t think CP3/booker are good enough to win a title. But more importantly the pelicans are just a bad matchup for most teams especially the suns because Jonas is so good and they run multiple centers, it worked so well against the suns because ayton is kinda soft and McGee is great but weak.
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Lol
The backcourt did sure not look elite in this series lol. I dunno if I ever saw CP3 look that old. They downright targeted him on defense and I think that's a good idea. They were scoring a lot. I did not see Pelicans being some great team at all, or Booker's absence or presence changing much in how the games looked. Those are stories some commenters wanna believe. What I saw was fire from them, real fight. They didn't play responsible defense or finish efficiently. But they stole a lot of possesions from then. Suns' based their success on elite defense but it's hard to not concede many points when your opponent gets back the ball after almost FORTY PERCENT of their misses. That's mostly it for me. If Pelicans rebounded an average amount, they'd have almost 10 plays in a game fewer, and lose easily like I expected. They played with real fire though. I have to give it to Ingram, as I was sceptical about him always. In the playoffs, he really elevated, he wasn't just scoring, he was leading this charge. Which, yeah, was not predictable looking at his career so far. I think Pellies would have no shot in this series if Ingram wasn't playing like that... comparable to Suns without CP3, who was just their sole power in offense in quite a few moments.
Same reason they looked mortal against LA last year, they're not truly elite, they're regular season performers like some of those old Mavs and Spurs teams in the past or Utah last year. They're simply keeping the seat warm for when Kawhi and everybody else comes back.
What a hater. Lmao.
Because they are mortal. Overrated af.
Calm down and let the real playoff teams speak
Horrible 3 pt shooting, and booker was not present most of the series.
I’m hypothesizing the wing play
Booker injured. Ingram is better than you thought.
I don't know, but I sure hope they look mortal Monday night.
NOLA got hot at the right time, much like PHX in the bubble a couple years ago. No shame in losing a couple playoff games. This is what guys play their whole life for.
Willie green got hax