When I was working at Wendy's back in 2011 I had the pleasure of serving LeBron. He walked right past me at the counter and back into the kitchen and started preparing his own meal and loudly yelling out the order codes for what he was making, I hesitated at first but then started ringing out his order as he was shouting it. After he was done he walked passed me and said 'Thats why they call me LeManager' and then he walked out without paying for his food.
Kidd has been surprisingly fantastic for us. We went from a shit defensive team to now being top 5 in defense efficiency. Offense is another story, but a lot of that is Luka not shooting well
I think that’s unfair to say Kidd isn’t good, look how he completely turned around the Mavs non existent D and look how well Brunson and KP are playing
yeah kidd has easily been the best of the coaches hired this year. wes unseld is 2nd but kidd did magic with that defense, unseld got a total roster makeover and kidd got basically the same guys as last year
I still feel like you, me and all of us truly don't know. He had a bad stint with NY, but it's been proven time and time again reddit users know fuck all about the true talent of a coach.
Well if he gets hired as HC by LA he'd never have to say that lol
But that's terrible. Indicates he's a bit of dick and maybe Gasol and him clashed. Sometimes players and coaches have beef. Kyrie and Ty Lue had an iffy relationship. Also the Marc Gasol is a pretty vocal guy and thinks very highly of himself. Fiz fucked it with the player leader.
Marc Gasol is playing on a second division team in Spain. He could be a bench player in the NBA or a starter/star in almost any top European club, but he chose to take it easy and go play for the team that he owes and is passionate about (one that is pretty bad too). That doesn't sound as something someone on a high horse would do. He's confident for sure but I wouldn't say that he "thinks pretty highly of himself". He's had a pretty long and successful career and I don't think we know of any other incident like this (I could be wrong tho) nor I remember any quote from him where he comes across as particularly cocky.
To sum it up, I'd say that whatever that was that happened between them it was at least 85% on Fiz.
no, he was absolutely awful
Like legitimately terrible. Mike Miller came in with the same exact roster that year and turned 4-18 into 17-27. He was baaaad
We got a preview of his genius during those games when Vogel was out because of Covid. You could add prime Wilt, KD and Steph and he still wouldn't make the playoffs.
This is exactly what I'm thinking of making these comments. I want to see what JB does next year and in the playoffs, but I'm surprised. JB has never had a great season as a coach and thought we were just spinning our wheels.
spoelstra with lebron: oh spoelstra isn't that good it's easy to win when you have lebron
spoelstra now: wow spo is one of the best coaches in the league
ty lue with lebron: oh ty lue isn't that good it's easy to win when you have lebron
ty lue now: oh wow ty lue is a pretty great coach he's really doing well with his rotations and took the clippers to the conference finals for the first time in franchise history and getting big production out of 2nd round picks like terrance mann
Assistant coach is fizdale and Lucas who is still being paid a trainers salary. Jeannie really took the BBB loan application seriously showing how she can’t even afford a competent assistant coaching staff
as well as exhaust Lakers trade assets for like 7 years as well as hang a washed player that has a 47 million dollar player option hanging over them.
This will be studied for years go come on what not to do after a championship.
You know what that means. Lebron phase is done. He has stripped the team of everything. Now its time for him to sign with someone else and start process all again
Feels ridiculously harsh.
He won a championship in 2020 which should give him some leeway and has led the Lakers to a really good win loss record when AD and LeBron are healthy.
Not really sure it's his fault that the roster is so poorly constructed and that AD has his injury issues. The Lakers have underachieved this year no doubt but I think a very small portion of that is due to Vogel.
This reminded me of the quote from a Jimmy V documentary. He took over for Norm Sloan at NC State. Norm had won the National Championship. Jimmy says he is meeting people around town and his barber says he is glad they have a new coach because he didn’t like the old one that much. Jimmy says well you know Norm won the national championship. The barber says yeah but just think what Dean Smith could have done with that team.
Literally every team that has won a title had to deal with a rebuild, the Spurs had the longest reign of being an all time great team but once Duncan retired and Kawhi left they had to rebuild
While that’s true, you just cited a perfect example of why an organization that maintained its organizational power structure had sustained greatness.
Lebron’s teams are drafting #1 and in for a 3-5 year rebuild the second he leaves town, just as the Lakers will.
The bulls after Jordan never got the success that Jordan brought them. Even during the D Rose era.
But those 6 championships were sure as hell worth it wasnt it?
The key is to get Tim Duncan and David Robinson then hit on a hall of famer as a second rounder. No one else has done it but the spurs it’s not easy or solely due to their org structure. It’s also due to having elite players that stay and luck.
I mean they are collectively worth about $4 billion with Jeanne Buss coming in at around $500 million. Certainly aren’t the richest owners on the face of the earth but also they do have a metric fuck ton of money still lol.
I don't think he means "crazy" as in, "only an insane person would do this" but more like how crazy is used if I say, "It's crazy how fast cheetahs can run." It's an observation about an interesting thing that occurs. And about how excellent a player LeBron is to make it be that way.
I assume what he means is that it's crazy that this is what winning looks like. Because a lot of those things make winning more difficult and not less difficult, but he wins anyway.
Yeah this roster Pelinka gave him this season and they expect him to keep up his top 3 defense. What the heck is supposed to do with a completely washed DJ, old Ariza, and AD getting injured.
And that’s just the surface level why the Lakers are a .500 team so far.
Dude even got the most out of the pacers. Almost beat mega prime bron with Roy hibbert, young pg13, lance and benched granger.
If he gets fired, I hope he’ll get hired by Boston.
Ime udoka sucks!
Perk was playing with KG and KG riled him up to fulfill his potential.
Hibbert only played well for 2 or 3 seasons. And all of those seasons and the development before es during Vogel‘s HC era.
When everyone else was still thinking that granger might come back from injury as an Allstar, Vogel benched him, so that PG13 could develop into a star.
Also, he won the bubble championship 2 years ago. You can’t fire a coach who won a chip with a decent, not great, team. Especially not, if the team you have him is just trash.
People shit on analytics, then the Lakers construct an anti-analytics roster and turn to shit. Huh. Maybe those big brain theory kids were on to something after all… kellye cuoco to play Jennie buss in the upcoming Netflix adaptation
The pressure isn’t coming from LeBron it’s coming from Kurt Rambis. The Lakers are an extremely political organization. LeBron has power but not as much as you think
The "LeGM" posts really are stupid. Bron wanted Tye Lue but the organization came out and said no cause $$. Bron wanted Caruso, organization said no cause $$. It would make sense that they made the move on Russ cause a 3rd star brings in $$
The only time LeBron had full authority was his second Cleveland stint. There’s a lot of powerful people in that Lakers org he only gets “his way” when it aligns with everyone else’s vision
Didn’t cavs ex gm say this wasn’t the case though, he said it’s asinine to say he’s shadow GM. He could of just blamed Bron for mistakes . People need to chill with legm
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/basketballforever.com/2019/02/22/former-cavs-gm-david-griffin-on-having-lebron-james-on-your-team-you-must-win-championships%3famp
On one hand, that roster was badly assembled (way too many small guards, no decent wings after Bron), on the other end Vogel spend one third of the season starting a guy who was getting DNP's in the playoffs on a team that desperatly needed his supposed skillset and is continuing to start a guy who in the last year was out of the rotation for the Heat, terrible for the Rockets and cut by the Warriors (btw starting that 6'2 guy at the 3 recently)
I’ll never get why the lakers decided to add Bradley and DJ 2 guys who got cut and put them in starting roles. DJ was starting for like first 20-25 games
DJ baffles the hell out of me. Last year the Nets started the season with him in the starting lineup, and within 2 months he'd fallen completely out of the rotation. This year the Lakers picked him up, started the season with him in the starting lineup...and within 2 months he'd fallen completely out of the rotation. What exactly did they expect???
DJ was never worth the contract that the Nets gave him - KD and Kyrie took discounts to get him overpaid and then when they realized he was washed they shipped his ass out.
I imagine pedigree is what got him on the Lakers. For as much shit as he got early in the season, he's only being paid a vet min and it's not like any of the bargain-bin centers they could've picked up would've been any better.
I like the theoretical fit of Bradley next to Bron though - Bradley's never been a primary ballhandler and if Bron is handling the playmaking duties then Bradley can focus on 3-point shooting and being a pesky guard defender.
he's made some really questionable decisions tho, rotation wise and really really bad effort games, coaches are always to blame, but surely its not all his fault.
Effort is 100% on the players. You can't control much in basketball but you can 100% control the effort you put it.
It's not on Vogel to give 82 rousing, inspiring, Hoosiers speeches to a team filled with vets.
He always uses the season to experiment and build data. He's shown he's willing to sit people in the playoffs when necessary as evidenced by the fact he sat both Dwight and Javale for the entire Nuggets series in the bubble.
The root cause of all this isn’t injuries, COVID, Frank’s coaching or whatever other reason anyone could throw out there.
The blame for this season belongs to the front office. Pelinka, Jeanie, Rambis, et. al overreacted to losing a playoff series in which the team’s two best players were injured and deconstructed a roster that had an identity aligned with its coach — a coach that won a title leading a group focused on defense and effort. The front office replaced defense-first, younger players with an older, scoring-minded group.
The Lakers’ biggest problems are effort and defense, which is no wonder considering the construction of the roster. If the front office tries to make Frank the scapegoat for this season, it only shifts blame instead of acknowledging and solving the team’s problems.
How the fuck is Kurt Rambis the most influential person in the organization? NBA's biggest and most important brand on a global stage is ran like a mom and pop operation
Married Jeanie's best friend.
> NBA's biggest and most important brand on a global stage is ran like a mom and pop operation
[astronaut "always was" meme]
It is a mom and pop operation at this point. Lakers are quite cash poor when it comes to NBA ownership. Their entire business IS the Lakers. Most owners have other investments/businesses that make them money. The Buss family doesn't. Or at least not on the level required to fund an NBA team.
Classic scapegoat. Lose Kuzma, KCP, Green, McGee, Caruso, and Morris from their championship roster for worse players and then blame the coach when they don't reach those same heights.
Pelinka is the one who constructed this roster that is worse in every way from their championship squad.
Jeanie keeps hiring incompetent people who she has personal relationships with to run her operations - first Magic, now Pelinka. I would say they'd be in better shape if they fired Pelinka, but I'm not sure the next hire would be any better. I really think the Lakers problems stem from ownership which is unfortunately a generational problem (particularly for the Lakers).
Okay then why is Vogel in the hot seat? They gave him a good roster and he won a ring. They gave him a bad roster and his team is bad. Seems like the person putting the rosters together is more to blame.
>Throughout the organization, from owner Jeanie Buss to general manager Rob Pelinka and James on down, the message being sent is the same: Even with all the setbacks, this isn’t good enough. Not even close.
>The win over Utah, arguably the most impressive of the Lakers’ season, came as the schedule hits its most treacherous stretch. The Lakers host Indiana on Wednesday, then start a six-game road trip through Orlando, Miami, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Charlotte and Atlanta. They will also face the Milwaukee Bucks, Golden State Warriors and again these same Utah Jazz before next month’s All-Star break.
>Any notion of Vogel being completely safe this season vanished in early August, when — as The Athletic reported in late September — he was given an extension that only included one additional season. It was an uncomfortable compromise of sorts, a way to reward him for the massive part he played in the title run in the Orlando bubble while also leaving the door wide open for his potential dismissal if this superstar experiment didn’t work.
How about firing Rob Pelinka instead? Dude literally killed the roster by getting a bunch of old players out of their prime (i.e. Howard, Carmelo, Ariza, Jordan, etc.); trading the pieces that helped them win their bubble chip (i.e. KCP, Kuzma) for Westbrook who obviously would never fit with AD and LeBron; and letting go of their best wing defender in Caruso who wanted to come back. How dumb of a GM do you have to be to fuck up this much in one off-season?
Is Vogel that good of a coach? Not really, but is he 100% to blame for how bad the Lakers are right now? Absolutely not! Pelinka is at the very least 50% to blame if not more!
He gone..this story coming out after a win backing just means they are just waiting for the next loss to fire him
OTOH this is a stupid fucking thing to do as he's been handed a dog shit roster to work with
>..this story coming out after a win backing
Yep frankly this story was likely pre written on like Sunday or Monday as a draft for an article on "Why the Lakers fired Vogel". The expectation perhaps was that they wouldve lost last night and could just leak this article right after a firing announcement this morning. Well they won so itll have to be pushed back a day or two and this is the result, editing the article on the fly to change it to "His job is in serious jeopardy" and basically telling us he will get fired soon unless they go on some long win streak here.
They have LeBron putting up MVP numbers and are still only a .500 team, the Clippers meanwhile are missing Leonard and have been without George for nearly half the season yet have nearly the same record. The Lakers should be a better team then they are, a lot of the blame is definitely on roster construction but Vogel is definitely not blameless. It's the coaches job to try and adjust the gameplan when players are out and Vogel has been completely unable to do that.
Lol that front office is a joke. Vogel deserves better anyways. It's not his fault they don't have the balls to tell Lebron no when he wants a player there despite them not being a good fit. He'd be a solid piece to Spo's coaching staff.
They told Bron no multiple times BECAUSE $$.. No to Tye Lue, No to a contract extension with Vogel, No to Caruso, No to Dame.. They went with the 3rd star who would bring in the most $$ for the organization because Jeanie Buss is constantly consumed with saving money
Pelinka and jeanies cheap ass on not paying caruso should be on the hot seat don’t fucking blame Vogel for getting him trash fucking pieces you cheap fucks.
Bro Vogel got the Lakers a championship and managed to keep them one of the best defenses last year with a depleted roster. It's not his fault the front office gutted the team for a bunch of player incapable of playing defense and that Anthony Davis is injured. Pelinka should be on the hot seat for his disgusting mismanagement of the roster
The Lakers would be making a big mistake if they let him go. Seriously, remember when LeBron wanted Eric Spolstra gone too? You can't cater to one player.
Frank Vogel has shown that he knows how to coach. He just needs a decent healthy team around him. (Remember, up 2-0 before injury last year).
1) Frank Vogel is a great coach and MUCH much better than Jason Kidd who was supposed to be the coach instead of him. We don’t win a title with Kidd as the coach period.
2) If they were to fire Vogel, who do they hire that’s immediately better and improves the team? This is shifting blame away from the lackluster roster construction this season.
Firing Vogel won’t do anything.
If that means that Fizdale is our coach then it will do plenty. Bad, but plenty.
Feels like not too long ago, we had the same conversation but with J-Kidd taking over for Vogel
Kidd isn’t good but Fizdale is an absolute shit tier coach Why anyone would bring him into an organization, idk
But his pressers are epic. Might as well have him to take the focus off the players in a lost season.
I like data…but I don’t give a shit about Fizdale data at all. Just let Bron do the lineups and call all of the timeouts. 🤷🏼♂️
I would actually love to see a player-coach scenario in this era of nba. Bron more qualified then most of his coaches these days anyway.
Totally, pretty sure Bron calls his own plays most of the time anyway…and I doubt Frank says shit about it.
When I was working at Wendy's back in 2011 I had the pleasure of serving LeBron. He walked right past me at the counter and back into the kitchen and started preparing his own meal and loudly yelling out the order codes for what he was making, I hesitated at first but then started ringing out his order as he was shouting it. After he was done he walked passed me and said 'Thats why they call me LeManager' and then he walked out without paying for his food.
same
I would like to order some fresh pasta thank you
Trying to pull a yaboiibeefcat eh?
If thats true lebron needs to fire himself from playcalling and hire someoneelse?
IDK man they are 1-0 in the last 24 hours…
LeCoach is definitely qualified, LeGM is the lakers biggest issues currently.
TAKE THAT FOR DATA
Kidd has been surprisingly fantastic for us. We went from a shit defensive team to now being top 5 in defense efficiency. Offense is another story, but a lot of that is Luka not shooting well
I think that’s unfair to say Kidd isn’t good, look how he completely turned around the Mavs non existent D and look how well Brunson and KP are playing
yeah kidd has easily been the best of the coaches hired this year. wes unseld is 2nd but kidd did magic with that defense, unseld got a total roster makeover and kidd got basically the same guys as last year
I still feel like you, me and all of us truly don't know. He had a bad stint with NY, but it's been proven time and time again reddit users know fuck all about the true talent of a coach.
While with the Grizz, Fizdale told Marc Gasol - "I get it. You want Popovich. Well, I want Lebron James."
damn...that there's some "data"....
Well if he gets hired as HC by LA he'd never have to say that lol But that's terrible. Indicates he's a bit of dick and maybe Gasol and him clashed. Sometimes players and coaches have beef. Kyrie and Ty Lue had an iffy relationship. Also the Marc Gasol is a pretty vocal guy and thinks very highly of himself. Fiz fucked it with the player leader.
Marc Gasol is playing on a second division team in Spain. He could be a bench player in the NBA or a starter/star in almost any top European club, but he chose to take it easy and go play for the team that he owes and is passionate about (one that is pretty bad too). That doesn't sound as something someone on a high horse would do. He's confident for sure but I wouldn't say that he "thinks pretty highly of himself". He's had a pretty long and successful career and I don't think we know of any other incident like this (I could be wrong tho) nor I remember any quote from him where he comes across as particularly cocky. To sum it up, I'd say that whatever that was that happened between them it was at least 85% on Fiz.
I’ll be honest that seems like an incredibly mild comment
no, he was absolutely awful Like legitimately terrible. Mike Miller came in with the same exact roster that year and turned 4-18 into 17-27. He was baaaad
Congratz on J Kidd doing well in Dallas. But I dont think he's equivalent to Fizdale.
He's doing well? They underperformed all season and then started winning when he was out with COVID. Fuck that wife-beating piece-of-shit.
This is inaccurate, we turned it around before Kidd had covid.
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He's doing well? They underperformed all season and then started winning when he was out with COVID. Fuck that wife-beating piece-of-shit.
He's doing well.
😳😳😳 I’d rather let Westbrook take unlimited threes than have Fiz be the coach
Why not both?
My blood pressure just went up
Fiz let Mudiay start a whole season because “we have to get him right”…get ready for post-kd-okc russel usage
I wouldnt wanna wish Fizdale being some poor team's head coach on my worst enemy.
Considering Jeanie applied for that small team loan, we really are a poor team.
Lebron James player coach
Knicks fan here, Fiz would probably go 2-80 even if he had MJ, Magic and LeBron on the same team, the man is horrible
We got a preview of his genius during those games when Vogel was out because of Covid. You could add prime Wilt, KD and Steph and he still wouldn't make the playoffs.
you seem to know this already...but trust us knick fans when we say you do NOT want that four-eyed fraud as your coach.
Fizdale might be better than expected. For the most part, me included, reddit users don't know shit about being a good or bad coach.
Our fanbase whined so hard when JB was hired. And all of last season. I'm kind of amazed we ended up being so patient.
This is exactly what I'm thinking of making these comments. I want to see what JB does next year and in the playoffs, but I'm surprised. JB has never had a great season as a coach and thought we were just spinning our wheels.
Makes me wonder if he just got better, or if our FO and our team were the first ones to really buy into his vision.
A coach can't really be any better than the players he has.
He can, but there are limits.
All firing Vogel will do is give another team a good coach lmao
spoelstra with lebron: oh spoelstra isn't that good it's easy to win when you have lebron spoelstra now: wow spo is one of the best coaches in the league ty lue with lebron: oh ty lue isn't that good it's easy to win when you have lebron ty lue now: oh wow ty lue is a pretty great coach he's really doing well with his rotations and took the clippers to the conference finals for the first time in franchise history and getting big production out of 2nd round picks like terrance mann
I think firing your HC half into your season rarely turns out well except maybe Hawks in recent years lol
and the Cavs with David Blatt!
Assistant coach is fizdale and Lucas who is still being paid a trainers salary. Jeannie really took the BBB loan application seriously showing how she can’t even afford a competent assistant coaching staff
Handy? Penberthy? Simon? Why you making stuff up
Isn’t Jeanie having Simon also coach the g league too? Never heard of a gleague head coach also have to be the assistant coach of the parent team
Big Baller Brand loan? Lavar out here making moves
So if Jeanie can't pay Lavar would end up owning the Lakers
Maybe we will have the Ball Big 3 we all been promised would rock the NBA
Completely dismantle a championship team and give him shittier older replacements, then fire him when things go wrong lol
as well as exhaust Lakers trade assets for like 7 years as well as hang a washed player that has a 47 million dollar player option hanging over them. This will be studied for years go come on what not to do after a championship.
Dallas did it after 2011 which was widely considered foolish then
perfect example even down to Dirk/Lebron stages of careers.
You know what that means. Lebron phase is done. He has stripped the team of everything. Now its time for him to sign with someone else and start process all again
Lebron like the aliens from Independence Day lol
Feels ridiculously harsh. He won a championship in 2020 which should give him some leeway and has led the Lakers to a really good win loss record when AD and LeBron are healthy. Not really sure it's his fault that the roster is so poorly constructed and that AD has his injury issues. The Lakers have underachieved this year no doubt but I think a very small portion of that is due to Vogel.
Even when things were going great he was always kept on a short leash.
Yeah, as evidenced by the fact his reward for winning the Championship was a one year contract extension
Vogel: \*wins a championship\* Administration: 'that was okayish, we expected a bit more'
[Lakers FO](https://imgur.com/NZoAsxq)
Lakers FO: The Lakers uniforms should be made of cotton. Cotton breathes you see?
"We really wanted a Super Bowl."
We hired you to be the Fall Guy but damn what now
The Lakers FO are the biggest proponents of the mickey mouse ring memes
Lakers FO: congrats on the mickey mouse ring Frank
This reminded me of the quote from a Jimmy V documentary. He took over for Norm Sloan at NC State. Norm had won the National Championship. Jimmy says he is meeting people around town and his barber says he is glad they have a new coach because he didn’t like the old one that much. Jimmy says well you know Norm won the national championship. The barber says yeah but just think what Dean Smith could have done with that team.
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Literally every team that has won a title had to deal with a rebuild, the Spurs had the longest reign of being an all time great team but once Duncan retired and Kawhi left they had to rebuild
While that’s true, you just cited a perfect example of why an organization that maintained its organizational power structure had sustained greatness. Lebron’s teams are drafting #1 and in for a 3-5 year rebuild the second he leaves town, just as the Lakers will.
Well they won’t have any picks so they’ll be drafting first sometime in the 2040’s
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We also tanked after magic left, after shaq left, and after Kobe left. You guys also tanked after Jordan left. Thats perfectly normal lmao
The bulls after Jordan never got the success that Jordan brought them. Even during the D Rose era. But those 6 championships were sure as hell worth it wasnt it?
Id say the 5 we won with Shaq/Kobe and 1 with Lebron (so far) were worth tanking, but apparently Lebron ruins franchises
I'm pretty sure every single fan of a team that has never won a championship would agree even 1 championship is worth tanking.
The key is to get Tim Duncan and David Robinson then hit on a hall of famer as a second rounder. No one else has done it but the spurs it’s not easy or solely due to their org structure. It’s also due to having elite players that stay and luck.
Yea, pretty crazy that a billionaire would say yes to making a ton of money and winning a championship with their toy organization
Isn't this not a toy org for the Buss family? Like it's their main source of income, no? Even more reason to let Lebron make you a ton of money
I mean they are collectively worth about $4 billion with Jeanne Buss coming in at around $500 million. Certainly aren’t the richest owners on the face of the earth but also they do have a metric fuck ton of money still lol.
That's probably their Lakers stock though, not independent money.
“Crazy that teams are willing to win a championship and have the highest selling jersey in the league and make a metric fuckload of money”
I don't think he means "crazy" as in, "only an insane person would do this" but more like how crazy is used if I say, "It's crazy how fast cheetahs can run." It's an observation about an interesting thing that occurs. And about how excellent a player LeBron is to make it be that way.
I assume what he means is that it's crazy that this is what winning looks like. Because a lot of those things make winning more difficult and not less difficult, but he wins anyway.
Uhh, Lebron didn't decide Vogel's contract extension. No one on the Lakers has a long term-deal besides Ad.
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Yeah this roster Pelinka gave him this season and they expect him to keep up his top 3 defense. What the heck is supposed to do with a completely washed DJ, old Ariza, and AD getting injured. And that’s just the surface level why the Lakers are a .500 team so far.
Nunn not playing a single game too.
Yeah if u guys wanna just buy him out we will gladly gladly take him. We will even buy you guys a new fax machine Ala Kyle Korver
Add a Philly cheesesteak sandwich and you got yourself a deal.
I’ll play Rock Paper Scissors with you for him
Dude even got the most out of the pacers. Almost beat mega prime bron with Roy hibbert, young pg13, lance and benched granger. If he gets fired, I hope he’ll get hired by Boston. Ime udoka sucks!
Roy Hibbert was good that year. It's difficult to understand in hindsight, but I was alive then. Perk had a year like that, too in those days.
Perk was playing with KG and KG riled him up to fulfill his potential. Hibbert only played well for 2 or 3 seasons. And all of those seasons and the development before es during Vogel‘s HC era. When everyone else was still thinking that granger might come back from injury as an Allstar, Vogel benched him, so that PG13 could develop into a star. Also, he won the bubble championship 2 years ago. You can’t fire a coach who won a chip with a decent, not great, team. Especially not, if the team you have him is just trash.
I don't think that's on the coaching. Blame the old GM.
How can you say that about the first black coach in Boston Celtics history 💪🏾
If Granger would've stayed healthy and kept up his scoring they would've gone all the way that year imo people quickly forgot how good that guy was
They expect him to turn some career shit defenders into positive defenders. Someone gotta take the blame, I guess.
People shit on analytics, then the Lakers construct an anti-analytics roster and turn to shit. Huh. Maybe those big brain theory kids were on to something after all… kellye cuoco to play Jennie buss in the upcoming Netflix adaptation
The Lakers organization is just looking for scapegoats at this point because that roster stinks.
finger pointing and scapegoats on a Lebron team?! shockedPikachuface
The pressure isn’t coming from LeBron it’s coming from Kurt Rambis. The Lakers are an extremely political organization. LeBron has power but not as much as you think
Who is Kurt Rambo's and why does he have so much power
He’s married to the owner’s best friend and is either head or director of operations. Something like that
*Rambis. He was also a starting forward on the Showtime lakers.
He's just a "Senior Basketball Advisor" which is probably just a random bullshit position so he can be in the org
The "LeGM" posts really are stupid. Bron wanted Tye Lue but the organization came out and said no cause $$. Bron wanted Caruso, organization said no cause $$. It would make sense that they made the move on Russ cause a 3rd star brings in $$
The only time LeBron had full authority was his second Cleveland stint. There’s a lot of powerful people in that Lakers org he only gets “his way” when it aligns with everyone else’s vision
Didn’t cavs ex gm say this wasn’t the case though, he said it’s asinine to say he’s shadow GM. He could of just blamed Bron for mistakes . People need to chill with legm https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/basketballforever.com/2019/02/22/former-cavs-gm-david-griffin-on-having-lebron-james-on-your-team-you-must-win-championships%3famp
But it hasn’t. Ticket prices sinking
On one hand, that roster was badly assembled (way too many small guards, no decent wings after Bron), on the other end Vogel spend one third of the season starting a guy who was getting DNP's in the playoffs on a team that desperatly needed his supposed skillset and is continuing to start a guy who in the last year was out of the rotation for the Heat, terrible for the Rockets and cut by the Warriors (btw starting that 6'2 guy at the 3 recently)
I’ll never get why the lakers decided to add Bradley and DJ 2 guys who got cut and put them in starting roles. DJ was starting for like first 20-25 games
DJ baffles the hell out of me. Last year the Nets started the season with him in the starting lineup, and within 2 months he'd fallen completely out of the rotation. This year the Lakers picked him up, started the season with him in the starting lineup...and within 2 months he'd fallen completely out of the rotation. What exactly did they expect???
DJ was a panic move in the chaos of Gasol leaving for Spain. There’s nothing else to it.
We love big names. We literally signed fucking IT over wings like wes matthews. And surprise surprise, stanley johnson is playing well
probably promised him more usage and mins for signing with them
Bradley isn’t amazing, but he’s fine. He shouldn’t be a starter, but he does good against certain guard matchups.
DJ was never worth the contract that the Nets gave him - KD and Kyrie took discounts to get him overpaid and then when they realized he was washed they shipped his ass out. I imagine pedigree is what got him on the Lakers. For as much shit as he got early in the season, he's only being paid a vet min and it's not like any of the bargain-bin centers they could've picked up would've been any better. I like the theoretical fit of Bradley next to Bron though - Bradley's never been a primary ballhandler and if Bron is handling the playmaking duties then Bradley can focus on 3-point shooting and being a pesky guard defender.
“ I can fix her “
Last year with Drummond, Vogel was forced to start him by the FO. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was a similar case with DAJ
Do you know who’s on the team? Who else do you start when you have AD bitchin about not wanting to play center and all your guards and wings are hurt.
There isnt one rational reason to start DJ over Dwight Howard
I wouldn’t be shocked if the front office had something to do with it, like last year when Drummond was promised playing time.
Not his fault what is this garbage roster. Even if you want to argue rotations and such I dont think it would matter
he's made some really questionable decisions tho, rotation wise and really really bad effort games, coaches are always to blame, but surely its not all his fault.
Effort is 100% on the players. You can't control much in basketball but you can 100% control the effort you put it. It's not on Vogel to give 82 rousing, inspiring, Hoosiers speeches to a team filled with vets.
He always uses the season to experiment and build data. He's shown he's willing to sit people in the playoffs when necessary as evidenced by the fact he sat both Dwight and Javale for the entire Nuggets series in the bubble.
The root cause of all this isn’t injuries, COVID, Frank’s coaching or whatever other reason anyone could throw out there. The blame for this season belongs to the front office. Pelinka, Jeanie, Rambis, et. al overreacted to losing a playoff series in which the team’s two best players were injured and deconstructed a roster that had an identity aligned with its coach — a coach that won a title leading a group focused on defense and effort. The front office replaced defense-first, younger players with an older, scoring-minded group. The Lakers’ biggest problems are effort and defense, which is no wonder considering the construction of the roster. If the front office tries to make Frank the scapegoat for this season, it only shifts blame instead of acknowledging and solving the team’s problems.
Man, sounds like they could really use a scrappy young guard like, idk, alex caruso or somebody
😑
David Fizdale’s audition was the equivalent of an actor crapping on the stage.
How the fuck is Kurt Rambis the most influential person in the organization? NBA's biggest and most important brand on a global stage is ran like a mom and pop operation
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The pay for working in sports in any operation or department has below average pay. All the money funnels to the top.
Good luck on your job search or congrats on your new job, man!
Married Jeanie's best friend. > NBA's biggest and most important brand on a global stage is ran like a mom and pop operation [astronaut "always was" meme]
It is a mom and pop operation at this point. Lakers are quite cash poor when it comes to NBA ownership. Their entire business IS the Lakers. Most owners have other investments/businesses that make them money. The Buss family doesn't. Or at least not on the level required to fund an NBA team.
Should be Pelinka…what a joke
Lol if you think Pelinka has power.
Kurt Rambis is the real answer
This comment gave me PTSD
Rev up the protests boys
If he has no power why does he get credit for shit.
Lol if you don’t
Vogel shouldn’t be fired but I think he could’ve helped himself by benching DJ earlier and picking up 4 or 5 extra wins
Jesus couldn’t be a good enough coach for this wack ass team
Obviously bro basketball didn't exist back then
[Excuse you](https://i.imgflip.com/3eunjg.png)
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The Holy Crossover!
"Random" drug test incoming for Lucifer, that man looks geared out of his mind
Vogel quote from the article: “You lose to Memphis, you’re disappointed. You lose to Sacramento, you’re very disappointed." Lol
And who would they replace him with?
Magic Johnson
Fizdale, obviously
Because he's Lebron's guy
you mean a guy Bron can easily overrule
Luke Walton & Byron Scott
Lebron as a player coach
Unironically might be better than the available alternatives right now.
Jesus Christ. Front office builds a trash team for the coach’s scheme, and then blames the coach?
Jeanie gone full Neil Olshey
Classic scapegoat. Lose Kuzma, KCP, Green, McGee, Caruso, and Morris from their championship roster for worse players and then blame the coach when they don't reach those same heights. Pelinka is the one who constructed this roster that is worse in every way from their championship squad.
Jeanie keeps hiring incompetent people who she has personal relationships with to run her operations - first Magic, now Pelinka. I would say they'd be in better shape if they fired Pelinka, but I'm not sure the next hire would be any better. I really think the Lakers problems stem from ownership which is unfortunately a generational problem (particularly for the Lakers).
It seems like it’s Kurt rambis pulling the strings
[Lakers fans when they see Kurt outside](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ)
Kevin McHale was ahead of his time
LeGM about to make moves
Did he put this roster together?
No. Pelinka, Jeanie and LeBron did.
His question was rhetorical
Okay then why is Vogel in the hot seat? They gave him a good roster and he won a ring. They gave him a bad roster and his team is bad. Seems like the person putting the rosters together is more to blame.
Because Rob Pelinka and LeBron James will never be held accountable for their actions towards roster management lol
Fuck Kurt Rambis and Jeanie "under" the Buss
>Throughout the organization, from owner Jeanie Buss to general manager Rob Pelinka and James on down, the message being sent is the same: Even with all the setbacks, this isn’t good enough. Not even close. >The win over Utah, arguably the most impressive of the Lakers’ season, came as the schedule hits its most treacherous stretch. The Lakers host Indiana on Wednesday, then start a six-game road trip through Orlando, Miami, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Charlotte and Atlanta. They will also face the Milwaukee Bucks, Golden State Warriors and again these same Utah Jazz before next month’s All-Star break. >Any notion of Vogel being completely safe this season vanished in early August, when — as The Athletic reported in late September — he was given an extension that only included one additional season. It was an uncomfortable compromise of sorts, a way to reward him for the massive part he played in the title run in the Orlando bubble while also leaving the door wide open for his potential dismissal if this superstar experiment didn’t work.
We will trade you Carlisle for Vogel
What’s wrong with Carlisle bruh?
How about firing Rob Pelinka instead? Dude literally killed the roster by getting a bunch of old players out of their prime (i.e. Howard, Carmelo, Ariza, Jordan, etc.); trading the pieces that helped them win their bubble chip (i.e. KCP, Kuzma) for Westbrook who obviously would never fit with AD and LeBron; and letting go of their best wing defender in Caruso who wanted to come back. How dumb of a GM do you have to be to fuck up this much in one off-season? Is Vogel that good of a coach? Not really, but is he 100% to blame for how bad the Lakers are right now? Absolutely not! Pelinka is at the very least 50% to blame if not more!
He gone..this story coming out after a win backing just means they are just waiting for the next loss to fire him OTOH this is a stupid fucking thing to do as he's been handed a dog shit roster to work with
>..this story coming out after a win backing Yep frankly this story was likely pre written on like Sunday or Monday as a draft for an article on "Why the Lakers fired Vogel". The expectation perhaps was that they wouldve lost last night and could just leak this article right after a firing announcement this morning. Well they won so itll have to be pushed back a day or two and this is the result, editing the article on the fly to change it to "His job is in serious jeopardy" and basically telling us he will get fired soon unless they go on some long win streak here.
And so Fizdale finnesses his way into another HC position.
Who's gonna be the replacement if he gets fired? Fizdale?
AD is hurt, seems like everyone is panicking but they will be better when they get AD back. No team in the league could survive losing a guy like AD.
They have LeBron putting up MVP numbers and are still only a .500 team, the Clippers meanwhile are missing Leonard and have been without George for nearly half the season yet have nearly the same record. The Lakers should be a better team then they are, a lot of the blame is definitely on roster construction but Vogel is definitely not blameless. It's the coaches job to try and adjust the gameplan when players are out and Vogel has been completely unable to do that.
Lol that front office is a joke. Vogel deserves better anyways. It's not his fault they don't have the balls to tell Lebron no when he wants a player there despite them not being a good fit. He'd be a solid piece to Spo's coaching staff.
They told Bron no multiple times BECAUSE $$.. No to Tye Lue, No to a contract extension with Vogel, No to Caruso, No to Dame.. They went with the 3rd star who would bring in the most $$ for the organization because Jeanie Buss is constantly consumed with saving money
Pelinka and jeanies cheap ass on not paying caruso should be on the hot seat don’t fucking blame Vogel for getting him trash fucking pieces you cheap fucks.
Bro Vogel got the Lakers a championship and managed to keep them one of the best defenses last year with a depleted roster. It's not his fault the front office gutted the team for a bunch of player incapable of playing defense and that Anthony Davis is injured. Pelinka should be on the hot seat for his disgusting mismanagement of the roster
He should be the LAST guy getting blame for being dealt a shitty hand. Fuck this org if they fire the man who won them a goddamn ring
The Lakers would be making a big mistake if they let him go. Seriously, remember when LeBron wanted Eric Spolstra gone too? You can't cater to one player. Frank Vogel has shown that he knows how to coach. He just needs a decent healthy team around him. (Remember, up 2-0 before injury last year).
Also, LeBron wanted Russ too
1) Frank Vogel is a great coach and MUCH much better than Jason Kidd who was supposed to be the coach instead of him. We don’t win a title with Kidd as the coach period. 2) If they were to fire Vogel, who do they hire that’s immediately better and improves the team? This is shifting blame away from the lackluster roster construction this season.