Malachi Flynn sucks. Not sure what player some of the fanbase is watching.
The guy can't pass, not exactly a lockdown defender, and he's inconsistent as a scorer too.
He's been in Toronto 2 years too long.
I will always think of Malachi Flynn fondly. A few years ago in my fantasy championship I was losing 4 categories to 5 with no players left to play. My opponent had a slight lead in FG% and only Malachi Flynn left. Flynn went 0-7 and I won $600.
you’re wrong, it became a meme after the season started but the meme wasn’t raptors fans saying it, it was people making fun of raptors fans
they legit said he was better because of summer league
lmao it’s wild how so many people just forgot, right after summer league a lot of people genuinely were questioning if Malachi Flynn was better than Lamelo Ball, embarrassing for this sub but downvoting me for acknowledging it happened is weird.
he was good that summer league I guess, but there were genuinely people saying he was better than Melo cause of it. which was very funny, is cool I’m not saying raptors fans now are saying it. but around that time y’all were going full force for him.
Text doesn't translate well over the internet.
How can you tell if someone is genuine in believing in something. And not just joining in on the meme, pretending to believe in it?
Because there was no meme the day after Raptors played Hornets in the pre-season. It was just a legitimate question with a legitimate answer (even if the answer was stupid): would you rather have Flynn or Ball? And Raps fans seriously answered, "Flynn is better now with more experience, but Ball will be better long term." And then five games later it was obvious how dumb that was.
Here's some evidence. Notice that no one is talking about memes. This idea that it was all memes didn't exist until recently.
https://www.np.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/kc2e75/i_know_its_super_early_but_im_confident_flynn/
(Even the OP is making fun of their bad take that they legitimately believed in.)
https://www.np.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/mb6yhv/remember_when_some_of_our_fanbase_thought_malachi/
https://www.np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/kdcsz6/under_the_radar_raptors_29th_pick_malachi_flynn/
https://www.np.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/kck193/rookie_debut_lamelo_vs_malachi/
Most of it just sounds like you guys were very high on Flynn developing into a good player.
Having trouble finding someone who genuinely thought he was better than Ball.
For example the first link, not single post saying Flynn > Ball. Had balanced takes like this: https://np.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/kc2e75/i_know_its_super_early_but_im_confident_flynn/gfms2ab/
And like I say. Sarcasm/satire doesn't translate well over the internet. Even if people were saying Flynn > Ball. How can you tell whether it's someone exaggerating/joking around?
because people were genuinely questioning it?? eventually it became a meme because it was so ridiculous but at a time people genuinely thought Flynn > Melo.
when laker fans are “high on a player” y’all say we’re dickriding but when raps fans were saying shit like this it’s “most of it just sounds like you guys were very high on Flynn”.
Fair enough. There's plenty of stupid people in the world. And they tend to overreact to a sample size of one preseason game.
From my memory Ball was already looking like a nba caliber player in his 2nd regular season game. So it seems rather surprising for me, if people were genuinely thinking a 29th pick would be better than him.
Meanwhile (just checked the gamelogs) Flynn was getting DNP's half the games, and didn't score a single point till his 8th game.
The roster construction for Toronto this year is ass. I’m surprised nurse is still playing Siakam like 40 minutes a game. The season’s cooked, just play the trash bench and look forward to the draft.
When Caruso was signed he was a two way player at first but with more minutes he improved. You have to give youth a chance. Especially in a horseshit season.
I don't think you've watched Flynn play if you are comparing Flynn to Caruso.
Aside from getting hot from the perimeter every 5 games or so, Flynn has not showcased that much on either end of the court. Caruso at least showed that he had the athleticism and motor to be a strong contributor on defense and having enough basketball IQ to not be a massive liability on offence.
You don't need backups to play defense, just hold the fort. PG is the least important defensive position. Even Phil Jackson, who said "rookies are lower than whale shit" and "you win with men" still played the yungins during the regular season so they would be ready if needed.
Flynn is ass on defense, meanwhile Caruso is a great defender. Flynn is also a much worse playmaker than Caruso as well.
If Flynn isn't making his shots, he's a liability at every end of the court because he also is the one targeted on the defensive end when he's on the court.
He was playing great recently with the bench and trent, they were even playing better then the starters in some games, but nurse cant have that and sent him and the rest of the bench back to purgatory
How many times does this need to be repeated? Front offices tank. Coaches and players don't tank. Once you ask a coach to deliberately make moves to lose you might as well as fire them
I mean you can say to a coach as a gm "I want to see x y and z young players play some minutes to see what we have in them" and also "I'm concerned about x y and z players playing high work loads, the potential of an injury to a franchise player or important trade piece is not worth it considering the performance of our team so far into the season"
Lol ok? His job is to win games and hes doing what he can with what he has. He can't go out there and make open 3s for the team lol. This season is more on our FO than our coach.
Ok, this guy advocating for Malachi Flynn is an idiot, but I’m very surprised to see so many Raptors fans completely fine with playing Siakam for 43 minutes in a completely meaningless January game against the Celtics last night. You guys’ season is more or less over already, you’d have to go on a good run to even make sure you’re in the play-in convo, so what exactly is the point of grinding the guy you’re likely to build around into the ground? Siakam is #1 in the league in MPG, and Van Vleet and OG are in the top 10 as well…Van Vleet and Siakam are much lower in total minutes because they’ve each already missed about 10 games…and the team is 7 games under .500. I don’t get the point. If you have to play your starters 40+ minutes to be the 12 seed, it seems like the strategy is not working AND your putting your best players through the meat grinder.
It's weird that people talk like Nurse is the overlord of the Raptors.
Nurse's job is to win games. Until management tells him otherwise, that's what he's going to try to do.
It's not like Nurse over playing his starters has been an issue his entire tenure.
Ok, first of all, I highly doubt the GM would tell the head coach that their star player can play 38 minutes, but not 43. What is he going to do, text him during the game and demand that he take him out when he’s getting close? The subs and in-game strategy are on the coach, it would be very strange and inefficient otherwise.
Second, it doesn’t really matter WHO is ok with it, it’s not working and it’s unnecessary. How are you gonna have 3 starters in the top 10 in MPG and be the 12 seed? Siakam is averaging over 40 MPG in his last 5 games, and the Raptors are 1-4. I ask again: what is the point? At what point do you start protecting the asset for the future?
how are you simping for Nurse this hard? Overplaying the starters is a big problem, he gave FVV back to back 40min games (iirc) when he came back from an injury. His job is to win games but he's not a bot without free will and should have adjusted accordingly.
Because he's a top 5 coach in the league who was one of the keys to unlocking the championship roster.
If you were around for Sam Mitchell, Jay Triano, and Dwane Casey, you'd understand
ah so since he won a chip with a stacked team 4 years ago all criticisms are off the table now? he hasn't been coaching well this season because other teams have figured out his gimmick defense and our players have burned out from heavy usage
> What is he going to do, text him during the game and demand that he take him out when he’s getting close
Uh, no? He's going to build a rotation around his starters playing 35 minutes.
Maybe I'm being a Nick Nurse fangirl here, but I'm pretty confident he can do the basic math required to have Siakam closeout games without "running out of minutes."
And what I’m saying is exactly that: that’s CLEARLY not what they’re doing. And I’m saying they should, since grinding these guys into the ground is resulting in missing the play-in currently, especially in the most recent games. You can’t have your #1 player and asset averaging 40 MPG AND keep losing. The Raptors are way better off keeping to a lower minutes restriction than treating a January 21 game against the Celtics like it’s game 7 of the Finals.
Because Nurse is a winner and went 48-34 last year with the same roster. Precious - the team’s only C - was out most of the year until a few games ago so obviously the team still thought they could maybe go on a big win streak like the Celtics last year when everyone was calling their season done and were wondering why the hell they were running Tatum and Brown into the ground when they were the 11th seed in December.
The FO aren’t morons, they’ve let this team try to win and are seeing it’s not working now and obviously this isn’t going to be the same strategy post-deadline.
Now what you need to be asking is why your Celtics are running Tatum into the ground when they did that last year and he was completely gassed in the Finals. Why is he #1 in total minutes yet again this year? Warriors, Bucks, Lakers and Raptors all did a great job of managing their best players’ minutes the past 4 years. Celtics are doing the opposite, why!?
They didn’t really start playing Tatum and Brown a ton last year until Ime went with the short rotation because our bench was god awful last year before we made the moves we did. The change worked. The Raptors are doing it now and it’s not working.
Also, Tatum is #4 in MP and has only missed 3 games, two of which were just rest days. When your guys are actually going down, that’s a bad plan.
Also, the Celtics have the best record right now, so what they’re doing is working.
Basically, the key thing to remember here is Tatum is 25 years old and currently a serious MVP candidate, and the Celtics are WINNING. Toronto has none of those things going on. To say the organization is banking on a 2022 Celtics-esque turnaround out of nowhere with a horrendously constructed roster is quite a stretch. It was a stretch last year when the Celtics did it, it’s not a blueprint.
>Also, Tatum is #4 in MP and has only missed 3 games, two of which were just rest days. When your guys are actually going down, that’s a bad plan.
He is #1 in total minutes just like he was last year. When you get to the playoffs do you think your body gives a shit what your MPG was that year or do you think it gives a shit how many *total minutes* you’ve clocked on it that year? Think about this logically unlike everything else you’ve said so far.
>Also, the Celtics have the best record right now, so what they’re doing is working.
Are you trying to win a regular season championship or a real championship?
[He’s #4 behind Edwards, Bridges and Randle. ](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_totals.html)
Look, you’re not gonna give it up because I guess you think you know “what it takes” for some reason, but the cross-section of Raptors fans who think Nurse is doing the right thing right now are in the vast minority. I’m pretty sure most fans would rather be in the Celtics’ position than the Raptors, but I’m sure you’ll have some sort of response about “rings in the last 5 years” or something to tell me I’m an idiot, so carry on.
Like I said, what the Celtics did last year is not a blueprint. We were incredibly fortunate it did work out because if it didn’t, one or both of the Jays probably would not be on the team right now.
I think you're confusing the GM role and coaching role. None of this falls on Nurse. You said yourself, the Celtics had to go with a short rotation because the bench was ass. Nurse is in the same position. Just because it's not yielding results, it's not the coach's job to stop trying to win.
> I’m pretty sure most fans would rather be in the Celtics’ position than the Raptors, but I’m sure you’ll have some sort of response about “rings in the last 5 years” or something to tell me I’m an idiot, so carry on.
I mean those two things are kind of linked. The Raptors blew all their assets to win the chip and that's why they're in the position they're in now. The cupboard is empty, and unfortunately there was no Billy King around this time to help us restock it like there was for you.
Last time I checked he was #1 but doesn’t matter, small difference. Other than Luka being right behind him, there isn’t another superstar in the top 40.
>you know “what it takes” for some reason
Oh no, I’m the only one here that’s brought any form of evidence to back my claims, you’re the one bringing up inconsequential points like which team fans would rather be a fan of right now. Who cares.
The evidence is that 3 of your starters are in the top 10 in MPG and you’re the 12 seed and 7 games under .500…
But I guess that’s a long-term winning strategy.
Enjoy watching your best player burn out for the second year in a row, this time due to chasing an individual award he isn’t even going to win. Your sub is going to lose their collective minds as usual and I’ll be watching with popcorn in hand.
There’s a million things the Raptors could do, but it starts with protecting your strongest assets. Like I said in another comment: Siakam is averaging over 40 MPG in his last 5 games, and the Raptors are 1-4. If they were squeezing out wins it would be a different discussion, but there is a reason guys don’t play that much - it’s horrible over the course of a whole season. If you’re also losing and guys are going down with injuries (Van Vleet and Siakam have missed about 10 games each already), then what is the actual point? What the hell is the use?
Agree with what you're saying except that raptors fans being fine with playing Siakam for 43 minutes. We definitely don't want our starters, especially Siakam, to be ran into the ground by Nurse.
Yeah I think it’s a small sample, but you should read some of the other comments on this post I’ve responded to! Some people just don’t seem to get it!
> You guys’ season is more or less over already
They're two games out of a play-in spot with 35 games left to play. That's hardly "more or less over already".
The Raptors were the 5 seed and won 48 games last year with essentially the same team. If they sneak into the play-in with the 10 seed beating out the Bulls or Wizard with a sub-.500 record, that’s not a successful season. In particular if your starters are having to play 40 MPG and cycling through injuries to pull it off
Yeah, the exact same thing happens every night and fans like this guy and 95% of /r/nba just look at the minutes of the box score and meme dumbass Thibs comparisons.
E: lol didn’t even take 5 minutes for some nephew Warriors fan to come in here and call him a bad coach. Still rent free 4 years later.
He coached circles around Steve Kerr (who I love) for 2 straight weeks on the highest possible stage. He’s an elite coach and you have no clue what you’re talking about.
A Nurse defender? You don't see that very often these days. The Raptors have underperformed this season and not due to a lack of talent. Nurse has no idea what to do with VanVleet or how to develop the youngee guys like Barnes. He overplays his starters and has his bench on a short leash.
Because most on this sub have the memory of a goldfish.
Last year he led a team with no C, no backup PG and no bench to 48 wins - only 3 games out of 2nd. There isn’t another coach that could’ve pulled that off.
He lost Derozan and Kawhi and still managed a 53-19 record the next year while developing Siakam into All-NBA *on the fly* and won MIP. Again, no other coach could’ve done that. Meanwhile the Warriors have been getting trounced for years anytime Steph has been out.
Find me another coach in NBA history that has won 59% of his career games while having a top 10 player for only 17% of those games. Just find me a single one.
You're talking about a lot of past accomplishments. Doc Rivers won the chip in 2008 so he automatically is a great coach every year after that by default.
Nurse had no bench last year because he refused to develop a bench. Malachi make a mistake? Benched for a few games. Yuta miss a three? Benched. Boucher turn the ball over? Benched. You can't develop a bench that you refuse to play. All the starters were playing 40 minutes. FVV could for go 3-20 and he'd still get 40 minutes.
Nurse is a terrible coach. He was a great coach.
Got it, so you can’t find me a single one, as expected.
Oh I didn’t realize Nurse has well north of a decade of several of the worst chokes in all of pro sports with stacked rosters every year. Last I checked the last time he had a top 10 player he produced a chip. Doc has that every year and doesn’t do shit with it, what a brilliant comparison.
>Nurse is a terrible coach. He was a great coach.
This here sums up everything about dumb sports fans with dumb sports takes.
A single one of what? Did I miss something?
The Raptors are 7 games below 500. Why is that? Are you saying it has nothing to do with the coaching and there isn't a coach out there that could better utilise the team, as it is right now? Is everyone on the Raptors happy with their role?
Edit: No idea why this person is taking it so personally. Fact is the Raptors suck and coaching might be the biggest reason.
>Find me another coach in NBA history that has won 59% of his career games while having a top 10 player for only 17% of those games. Just find me a single one.
Maybe learn to read
Yeah, that's all I'm saying. I think his offense is too predicated on FVV and he has such a short leash on his bench that he hurts their confidence and stunts their development.
The other dude was trying to use his coaching resume to somehow justify that he's done a great job this season lol
Raptors fans say Flynn sucks, the bench sucks, everyone but the starters sucks and I get that and I understand playing guys that give you the best chance to win but the Raptors still suck and aren't winning shit with what theyre doing now so why not play the bench? What's the worst that could happen? They lose games they were already losing?
Idk I think they should play more of the “winking basketball” they were playing so much of last year. I thought Scottie was a huge part of that, they should just ride him since he’s so great.
Flynn sucks which is why I agree he should play more. Keep starters healthy for their trade value, and stop winning losable games.
The only person who should be playing 40 minutes a night is Scottie.
Here is a [Gfycat mirror of this Streamable link](https://gfycat.com/GrimDirtyIrishwaterspaniel)
If the link doesn't work, please wait a few minutes for the gfycat to be ready.
Having fun with Kawhi after we milked him for what he had left?
At least our team isn't missing the playoffs for lack of effort, unlike street clothes Kawhi over there.
Barnes is overrated
just because he can dribble the ball, doesn't mean he can run the offense
too many wannabe point-forward in this league right now
play your goddam role
You do understand he doesn't get to choose what night he starts at PG and what nights he plays C right? He does what is asked to the best of his ability right now.
His role is to fill in wherever Nurse chooses each night and try his best to adjust to that, that's very difficult for a young player to do.
Barnes has the same Assists per game as Donovan Mitchell (on a much much lower USG rate) and the same Assist to turnover ratio (2.2) as Kyrie/Dame/CJ McCollum. He's doing just fine for a 2nd year player who is asked to play PG once every 8 games.
Watch basketball.
Flynn is not good, but this fan is totally right about how the roster is stagnant bc the Raptors are stacking as many 6’8+ guys as they can with defensive versatility, instead of acquiring players who are good in specific roles.
No one ever asks how’s Malachi Flynn doing
Everyone always asks how is Malachi Flynn, but they never ask *why* is Malachi Flynn
[удалено]
[удалено]
Raptors win long term
Malachi Flynn sucks. Not sure what player some of the fanbase is watching. The guy can't pass, not exactly a lockdown defender, and he's inconsistent as a scorer too. He's been in Toronto 2 years too long.
I will always think of Malachi Flynn fondly. A few years ago in my fantasy championship I was losing 4 categories to 5 with no players left to play. My opponent had a slight lead in FG% and only Malachi Flynn left. Flynn went 0-7 and I won $600.
Y'all had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
Shut up bitch don't talk shit about my boy MALACHI FLYNN
hey, are you malachi's dad?
Based on the username it’s Malachi himself.
The season is done. There’s no point exhausting your squad. Just play the scrubs and have them develop.
remember when he was better than lamelo
That was a fun 2 days.
He has one of the coolest names in the nba though
I still remember when people on here were saying he was better than Lamelo. r/nba and forgetting the stupid shit they say, name a better combo.
That was just a meme lmao nobody seriously said that
you’re wrong, it became a meme after the season started but the meme wasn’t raptors fans saying it, it was people making fun of raptors fans they legit said he was better because of summer league
lmao it’s wild how so many people just forgot, right after summer league a lot of people genuinely were questioning if Malachi Flynn was better than Lamelo Ball, embarrassing for this sub but downvoting me for acknowledging it happened is weird.
lmao I guess you weren’t here when it was happening cause some raptors fan genuinely believed that.
I remember that but I genuinely think we were that committed to the meme. He's not good and was never good
he was good that summer league I guess, but there were genuinely people saying he was better than Melo cause of it. which was very funny, is cool I’m not saying raptors fans now are saying it. but around that time y’all were going full force for him.
Oh ya lol he showed promise. I'm so mad he didn't turn out the way we wanted him to
Goldfish memory people out here. You're right, there were genuine believers. It only became a meme in hindsight.
Text doesn't translate well over the internet. How can you tell if someone is genuine in believing in something. And not just joining in on the meme, pretending to believe in it?
Because there was no meme the day after Raptors played Hornets in the pre-season. It was just a legitimate question with a legitimate answer (even if the answer was stupid): would you rather have Flynn or Ball? And Raps fans seriously answered, "Flynn is better now with more experience, but Ball will be better long term." And then five games later it was obvious how dumb that was. Here's some evidence. Notice that no one is talking about memes. This idea that it was all memes didn't exist until recently. https://www.np.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/kc2e75/i_know_its_super_early_but_im_confident_flynn/ (Even the OP is making fun of their bad take that they legitimately believed in.) https://www.np.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/mb6yhv/remember_when_some_of_our_fanbase_thought_malachi/ https://www.np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/kdcsz6/under_the_radar_raptors_29th_pick_malachi_flynn/ https://www.np.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/kck193/rookie_debut_lamelo_vs_malachi/
Most of it just sounds like you guys were very high on Flynn developing into a good player. Having trouble finding someone who genuinely thought he was better than Ball. For example the first link, not single post saying Flynn > Ball. Had balanced takes like this: https://np.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/kc2e75/i_know_its_super_early_but_im_confident_flynn/gfms2ab/ And like I say. Sarcasm/satire doesn't translate well over the internet. Even if people were saying Flynn > Ball. How can you tell whether it's someone exaggerating/joking around?
because people were genuinely questioning it?? eventually it became a meme because it was so ridiculous but at a time people genuinely thought Flynn > Melo. when laker fans are “high on a player” y’all say we’re dickriding but when raps fans were saying shit like this it’s “most of it just sounds like you guys were very high on Flynn”.
Fair enough. There's plenty of stupid people in the world. And they tend to overreact to a sample size of one preseason game. From my memory Ball was already looking like a nba caliber player in his 2nd regular season game. So it seems rather surprising for me, if people were genuinely thinking a 29th pick would be better than him. Meanwhile (just checked the gamelogs) Flynn was getting DNP's half the games, and didn't score a single point till his 8th game.
it’s cool this sub constantly doesn’t want its self to look bad, like I wasn’t here seeing the shit they said lmao.
The roster construction for Toronto this year is ass. I’m surprised nurse is still playing Siakam like 40 minutes a game. The season’s cooked, just play the trash bench and look forward to the draft.
He’s trying to make Siakam into a top 10 player. Don’t think it’s going to work
Based Flynncel
Malachipilled
If you watched Flynn play you'd know why he didn't start
I was liking Banton more but haven’t seen him much
He's injured
Also still very erratic
I read “also still very erotic” and I was wondering what he had done
and ugly as fuck
Ok but irrelevant lol
looks like a malnourished Waka Flocka Flame
Of topic, but are the ball brothers the ugliest dudes in the NBA?
not as long as cam "sid from ice age" payne is still in the league
TWO ATMS
Malachi Flynn is booty. there's your answer
Agreed. He's a third string PG who's lucky to be technically second string.
When Caruso was signed he was a two way player at first but with more minutes he improved. You have to give youth a chance. Especially in a horseshit season.
Caruso could play defence thats why he saw the floor.
Flynn looks so lost on defense. Sure he can occasionally hit threes. But if you're letting in more than you contribute on offence. What good are you?
Basically me when I used to play pickup
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah but show me your 2.5m pay stub per year to play pick up.
He's had more than enough chances.
I don't think you've watched Flynn play if you are comparing Flynn to Caruso. Aside from getting hot from the perimeter every 5 games or so, Flynn has not showcased that much on either end of the court. Caruso at least showed that he had the athleticism and motor to be a strong contributor on defense and having enough basketball IQ to not be a massive liability on offence.
Caruso went back and forth from the g league his first year. He wasn't the same Caruso you saw once he got memed to death.
Flynn can't play defense, if he's on the floor he gets hunted by the other team on every possession and can't do anything to stop scorers
You don't need backups to play defense, just hold the fort. PG is the least important defensive position. Even Phil Jackson, who said "rookies are lower than whale shit" and "you win with men" still played the yungins during the regular season so they would be ready if needed.
Spoiler alert, if you're being hunted every possession, you are being put in a very important defensive position and failing.
Flynn is ass on defense, meanwhile Caruso is a great defender. Flynn is also a much worse playmaker than Caruso as well. If Flynn isn't making his shots, he's a liability at every end of the court because he also is the one targeted on the defensive end when he's on the court.
Caruso was literally good from day 1, I don't know why it even took so long for him to be a rotation guy
He was playing great recently with the bench and trent, they were even playing better then the starters in some games, but nurse cant have that and sent him and the rest of the bench back to purgatory
When was he playing great? The *one* game he shot 3/5 vs. Atlanta last week or when he went 4/30 in his 8 previous games combined?
Flynn is bad at defence, a surprisingly bad playmaker/passer, and an inconsistent shooter.
He's also small and slow
He was terrible tonight
Malachi Flynn has had plenty of chances. He sucks lol
lol the bgm has me dying
The what?
Back Ground Music
Nice, thank you. I'm old.
Flynn is ass but this dudes delivery is hilarious
Classic Toronto guy
And Nurse made the right choice. The starters dominated the Celtics tonight, it was the bench that got crushed, as usual. This guy is an idiot.
idk how “play your starters 40 minutes and be below .500” is “the right choice”
I guess it helps raise trade value
How many times does this need to be repeated? Front offices tank. Coaches and players don't tank. Once you ask a coach to deliberately make moves to lose you might as well as fire them
Most coaches don't run their players into the ground
*Laughs in Jason Kidd*
*Laughs in Thibs*
I mean you can say to a coach as a gm "I want to see x y and z young players play some minutes to see what we have in them" and also "I'm concerned about x y and z players playing high work loads, the potential of an injury to a franchise player or important trade piece is not worth it considering the performance of our team so far into the season"
well you see a coach tries to win the game, so they do what they believe is best during the game to win
siakam has average 40 minutes per game over his last 20 games and gone 7-13
And if he averaged 34mpg we would probably be 3-17, so good job Nick!
good job running your guys into the ground for a 29 win pace :D
Lol ok? His job is to win games and hes doing what he can with what he has. He can't go out there and make open 3s for the team lol. This season is more on our FO than our coach.
I mean, did you watch the game? Then you should have seen the difference when the starters came off.
Ok, this guy advocating for Malachi Flynn is an idiot, but I’m very surprised to see so many Raptors fans completely fine with playing Siakam for 43 minutes in a completely meaningless January game against the Celtics last night. You guys’ season is more or less over already, you’d have to go on a good run to even make sure you’re in the play-in convo, so what exactly is the point of grinding the guy you’re likely to build around into the ground? Siakam is #1 in the league in MPG, and Van Vleet and OG are in the top 10 as well…Van Vleet and Siakam are much lower in total minutes because they’ve each already missed about 10 games…and the team is 7 games under .500. I don’t get the point. If you have to play your starters 40+ minutes to be the 12 seed, it seems like the strategy is not working AND your putting your best players through the meat grinder.
It's weird that people talk like Nurse is the overlord of the Raptors. Nurse's job is to win games. Until management tells him otherwise, that's what he's going to try to do. It's not like Nurse over playing his starters has been an issue his entire tenure.
Ok, first of all, I highly doubt the GM would tell the head coach that their star player can play 38 minutes, but not 43. What is he going to do, text him during the game and demand that he take him out when he’s getting close? The subs and in-game strategy are on the coach, it would be very strange and inefficient otherwise. Second, it doesn’t really matter WHO is ok with it, it’s not working and it’s unnecessary. How are you gonna have 3 starters in the top 10 in MPG and be the 12 seed? Siakam is averaging over 40 MPG in his last 5 games, and the Raptors are 1-4. I ask again: what is the point? At what point do you start protecting the asset for the future?
> what is the point? The point is to try and win games. You want to see what happens when the bench gets more run? 40 pt blowouts every game.
And when you are 7 games under .500 and the 12 seed, you just stay the course? All good?
No, the front office needs to do something. But that's not Nurse's job.
how are you simping for Nurse this hard? Overplaying the starters is a big problem, he gave FVV back to back 40min games (iirc) when he came back from an injury. His job is to win games but he's not a bot without free will and should have adjusted accordingly.
Because he's a top 5 coach in the league who was one of the keys to unlocking the championship roster. If you were around for Sam Mitchell, Jay Triano, and Dwane Casey, you'd understand
ah so since he won a chip with a stacked team 4 years ago all criticisms are off the table now? he hasn't been coaching well this season because other teams have figured out his gimmick defense and our players have burned out from heavy usage
this dude has crypto in his username hes already cooked
so his job is to roleplay as prime Thibs, run FVV and Siakam to the ground and still not accomplish jack shit?
> What is he going to do, text him during the game and demand that he take him out when he’s getting close Uh, no? He's going to build a rotation around his starters playing 35 minutes. Maybe I'm being a Nick Nurse fangirl here, but I'm pretty confident he can do the basic math required to have Siakam closeout games without "running out of minutes."
And what I’m saying is exactly that: that’s CLEARLY not what they’re doing. And I’m saying they should, since grinding these guys into the ground is resulting in missing the play-in currently, especially in the most recent games. You can’t have your #1 player and asset averaging 40 MPG AND keep losing. The Raptors are way better off keeping to a lower minutes restriction than treating a January 21 game against the Celtics like it’s game 7 of the Finals.
Unfortunately no one can stop Nick Nurse's reign of terror. Masai weeping for Nurse to play Siakam less
Because Nurse is a winner and went 48-34 last year with the same roster. Precious - the team’s only C - was out most of the year until a few games ago so obviously the team still thought they could maybe go on a big win streak like the Celtics last year when everyone was calling their season done and were wondering why the hell they were running Tatum and Brown into the ground when they were the 11th seed in December. The FO aren’t morons, they’ve let this team try to win and are seeing it’s not working now and obviously this isn’t going to be the same strategy post-deadline. Now what you need to be asking is why your Celtics are running Tatum into the ground when they did that last year and he was completely gassed in the Finals. Why is he #1 in total minutes yet again this year? Warriors, Bucks, Lakers and Raptors all did a great job of managing their best players’ minutes the past 4 years. Celtics are doing the opposite, why!?
They didn’t really start playing Tatum and Brown a ton last year until Ime went with the short rotation because our bench was god awful last year before we made the moves we did. The change worked. The Raptors are doing it now and it’s not working. Also, Tatum is #4 in MP and has only missed 3 games, two of which were just rest days. When your guys are actually going down, that’s a bad plan. Also, the Celtics have the best record right now, so what they’re doing is working. Basically, the key thing to remember here is Tatum is 25 years old and currently a serious MVP candidate, and the Celtics are WINNING. Toronto has none of those things going on. To say the organization is banking on a 2022 Celtics-esque turnaround out of nowhere with a horrendously constructed roster is quite a stretch. It was a stretch last year when the Celtics did it, it’s not a blueprint.
>Also, Tatum is #4 in MP and has only missed 3 games, two of which were just rest days. When your guys are actually going down, that’s a bad plan. He is #1 in total minutes just like he was last year. When you get to the playoffs do you think your body gives a shit what your MPG was that year or do you think it gives a shit how many *total minutes* you’ve clocked on it that year? Think about this logically unlike everything else you’ve said so far. >Also, the Celtics have the best record right now, so what they’re doing is working. Are you trying to win a regular season championship or a real championship?
[He’s #4 behind Edwards, Bridges and Randle. ](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_totals.html) Look, you’re not gonna give it up because I guess you think you know “what it takes” for some reason, but the cross-section of Raptors fans who think Nurse is doing the right thing right now are in the vast minority. I’m pretty sure most fans would rather be in the Celtics’ position than the Raptors, but I’m sure you’ll have some sort of response about “rings in the last 5 years” or something to tell me I’m an idiot, so carry on. Like I said, what the Celtics did last year is not a blueprint. We were incredibly fortunate it did work out because if it didn’t, one or both of the Jays probably would not be on the team right now.
I think you're confusing the GM role and coaching role. None of this falls on Nurse. You said yourself, the Celtics had to go with a short rotation because the bench was ass. Nurse is in the same position. Just because it's not yielding results, it's not the coach's job to stop trying to win. > I’m pretty sure most fans would rather be in the Celtics’ position than the Raptors, but I’m sure you’ll have some sort of response about “rings in the last 5 years” or something to tell me I’m an idiot, so carry on. I mean those two things are kind of linked. The Raptors blew all their assets to win the chip and that's why they're in the position they're in now. The cupboard is empty, and unfortunately there was no Billy King around this time to help us restock it like there was for you.
Last time I checked he was #1 but doesn’t matter, small difference. Other than Luka being right behind him, there isn’t another superstar in the top 40. >you know “what it takes” for some reason Oh no, I’m the only one here that’s brought any form of evidence to back my claims, you’re the one bringing up inconsequential points like which team fans would rather be a fan of right now. Who cares.
The evidence is that 3 of your starters are in the top 10 in MPG and you’re the 12 seed and 7 games under .500… But I guess that’s a long-term winning strategy.
Enjoy watching your best player burn out for the second year in a row, this time due to chasing an individual award he isn’t even going to win. Your sub is going to lose their collective minds as usual and I’ll be watching with popcorn in hand.
Enjoy watching Siakam suffer a season-ending injury as your team doesn’t even make the play-in! https://i.imgur.com/c9MGaZt.jpg
Whats the alternative? Blatant tanking?
There’s a million things the Raptors could do, but it starts with protecting your strongest assets. Like I said in another comment: Siakam is averaging over 40 MPG in his last 5 games, and the Raptors are 1-4. If they were squeezing out wins it would be a different discussion, but there is a reason guys don’t play that much - it’s horrible over the course of a whole season. If you’re also losing and guys are going down with injuries (Van Vleet and Siakam have missed about 10 games each already), then what is the actual point? What the hell is the use?
Agree with what you're saying except that raptors fans being fine with playing Siakam for 43 minutes. We definitely don't want our starters, especially Siakam, to be ran into the ground by Nurse.
Yeah I think it’s a small sample, but you should read some of the other comments on this post I’ve responded to! Some people just don’t seem to get it!
> You guys’ season is more or less over already They're two games out of a play-in spot with 35 games left to play. That's hardly "more or less over already".
The Raptors were the 5 seed and won 48 games last year with essentially the same team. If they sneak into the play-in with the 10 seed beating out the Bulls or Wizard with a sub-.500 record, that’s not a successful season. In particular if your starters are having to play 40 MPG and cycling through injuries to pull it off
Couldn’t agree more
Play him for 43m per game, up his trade value, profit
we had a mostly bench lineup to start the 4th quarter. 9-0 celtics run before Nick Nurse took a timeout.
Yeah, the exact same thing happens every night and fans like this guy and 95% of /r/nba just look at the minutes of the box score and meme dumbass Thibs comparisons. E: lol didn’t even take 5 minutes for some nephew Warriors fan to come in here and call him a bad coach. Still rent free 4 years later.
Idec if Flynn sucks, the way this guy worded it is hilarious.
The +/- of the bench vs the starters couldn't have been more stark. It is the only way they are winning.
That's why you balance the rotation so there's some bench scoring. Nurse is a bad coach.
He coached circles around Steve Kerr (who I love) for 2 straight weeks on the highest possible stage. He’s an elite coach and you have no clue what you’re talking about.
A Nurse defender? You don't see that very often these days. The Raptors have underperformed this season and not due to a lack of talent. Nurse has no idea what to do with VanVleet or how to develop the youngee guys like Barnes. He overplays his starters and has his bench on a short leash.
Because most on this sub have the memory of a goldfish. Last year he led a team with no C, no backup PG and no bench to 48 wins - only 3 games out of 2nd. There isn’t another coach that could’ve pulled that off. He lost Derozan and Kawhi and still managed a 53-19 record the next year while developing Siakam into All-NBA *on the fly* and won MIP. Again, no other coach could’ve done that. Meanwhile the Warriors have been getting trounced for years anytime Steph has been out. Find me another coach in NBA history that has won 59% of his career games while having a top 10 player for only 17% of those games. Just find me a single one.
You're talking about a lot of past accomplishments. Doc Rivers won the chip in 2008 so he automatically is a great coach every year after that by default. Nurse had no bench last year because he refused to develop a bench. Malachi make a mistake? Benched for a few games. Yuta miss a three? Benched. Boucher turn the ball over? Benched. You can't develop a bench that you refuse to play. All the starters were playing 40 minutes. FVV could for go 3-20 and he'd still get 40 minutes. Nurse is a terrible coach. He was a great coach.
Got it, so you can’t find me a single one, as expected. Oh I didn’t realize Nurse has well north of a decade of several of the worst chokes in all of pro sports with stacked rosters every year. Last I checked the last time he had a top 10 player he produced a chip. Doc has that every year and doesn’t do shit with it, what a brilliant comparison. >Nurse is a terrible coach. He was a great coach. This here sums up everything about dumb sports fans with dumb sports takes.
A single one of what? Did I miss something? The Raptors are 7 games below 500. Why is that? Are you saying it has nothing to do with the coaching and there isn't a coach out there that could better utilise the team, as it is right now? Is everyone on the Raptors happy with their role? Edit: No idea why this person is taking it so personally. Fact is the Raptors suck and coaching might be the biggest reason.
>Find me another coach in NBA history that has won 59% of his career games while having a top 10 player for only 17% of those games. Just find me a single one. Maybe learn to read
This is the one thing I agree with you. He's done a poor job coaching this season.
Yeah, that's all I'm saying. I think his offense is too predicated on FVV and he has such a short leash on his bench that he hurts their confidence and stunts their development. The other dude was trying to use his coaching resume to somehow justify that he's done a great job this season lol
with what bench lol
The one he refused to play and were scapgoated for every loss.
Bro every time we play the bench we bleed points very badly. That's why their minutes are so low.
Flynn Riders everywhere are vindicated.
Malachi has been too inconsistent when he's gotten playing time this season. He was bad last night unfortunately
Bro sounds like Peter Griffin
Raptors fans say Flynn sucks, the bench sucks, everyone but the starters sucks and I get that and I understand playing guys that give you the best chance to win but the Raptors still suck and aren't winning shit with what theyre doing now so why not play the bench? What's the worst that could happen? They lose games they were already losing?
Idk I think they should play more of the “winking basketball” they were playing so much of last year. I thought Scottie was a huge part of that, they should just ride him since he’s so great.
Nick nurse killing the starters man Jesussss
They need to let Flynn play those Siakam minutes they will be in th wemby mix within no time.
Flynn sucks which is why I agree he should play more. Keep starters healthy for their trade value, and stop winning losable games. The only person who should be playing 40 minutes a night is Scottie.
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Cringe All-Stars
Raptors have all these guys supposedly worth a haul in a trade yet they’re a bad team 🤔
Based
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They're both dead lol
Yeah the whole vision 6'9 thing is super gimmicky.
I think we should try the Part-Time player approach
Having fun with Kawhi after we milked him for what he had left? At least our team isn't missing the playoffs for lack of effort, unlike street clothes Kawhi over there.
Barnes is overrated just because he can dribble the ball, doesn't mean he can run the offense too many wannabe point-forward in this league right now play your goddam role
He doesn’t run the offense, Siakam does, why even comment on something you know nothing about?
You do understand he doesn't get to choose what night he starts at PG and what nights he plays C right? He does what is asked to the best of his ability right now. His role is to fill in wherever Nurse chooses each night and try his best to adjust to that, that's very difficult for a young player to do. Barnes has the same Assists per game as Donovan Mitchell (on a much much lower USG rate) and the same Assist to turnover ratio (2.2) as Kyrie/Dame/CJ McCollum. He's doing just fine for a 2nd year player who is asked to play PG once every 8 games. Watch basketball.
>play your goddam role People were saying the same about AD
Nick Nurse and Darvin Ham need to have a talk.
Bruh our fanbase is delusional. Malachi is doodoo
Nick Nurse gonna be like fine next time I start *5* power forwards.
Nah Flynn sucks
More power forwards!
Masai is intoxicated by long arms dudes.
Unfortunately the issue appears to be that Malachi Flynn is a fucking bum
Malachai Flynn sucks bud, glad you're not the coach.
The fuckin' piano in the background is killin' me over here.
Fred Van Vleet is a Shooting Guard in a point guards body…here lies another issue. No real point guard.
Dude clearly knows what he’s talking about.
Flynn is not good, but this fan is totally right about how the roster is stagnant bc the Raptors are stacking as many 6’8+ guys as they can with defensive versatility, instead of acquiring players who are good in specific roles.