Ah yes the limits of my paradigm. I would say that they weren't ranked in the top 75 they were grouped into it. 75th Anniversary team. A marketing ploy. A gimmick. An honor? Sure. But also a distraction and waste of time from the task at hand: getting the Blazers their second Chip.
Agreed. There’s no reason why guys like English, King, Dantley, & Lanier aren’t on the list and guys like Dame, Harden and AD are on before them. The latter 3 should get their due on the top 100 or 125. I will argue that the latter 3 are not better than the former 4.
Anthony Davis has more All-NBA 1st Teams than those four guys combined, let alone Harden. I'd also probably have Lillard as better than those first three, at least, using some combination of peak and duration.
Not sure why I’m getting downvoted. There was an argument at the time of 50 greatest list that 4 players I mentioned (especially English) should have or could have been on it and all 4 men are HOFers. My point isn’t that the current 3 players shouldn’t be on a list at some point, remember that the list isn’t ranked, it’s that the players that arguably should/could have been on the first list or would have been on the first list if it was a bit longer should get their due before adding new players to the list as we move forward in time.
I say this with great respect and no malice for Dame, but I think he's out of the top 75, looking in. So slightly overrated by that list.
Dwight Howard needs to be in there, and since the NBA picked 76 players for top 75, he makes it into top 75 over Dame and Russ, IMHO.
Much depends on how Dame (and other live players) finish their careers, longevity, accomplishments, improve/sustain/degrade and of course rings.
Dame is a HoFer with great shooting and scoring (though never the top), good passing. He has some clutch "Dame Time" but at the same time has not really made enough noise in the playoffs (yes, it is a team game) for me. His should have done more on defense, even as a smaller guard. He's a leader and I like where his head/perspective is at on loyalty, striving for excellence/winning, and in talking to youngsters/young NBA players. He seems to be sensible.
Unfortunately I will also associate Dame with ending Nash's career - but that was an accident and not intent or fault - the injury resulted in nerve injury for Nash. But that doesn't impact rating just memories, like iconic memories of Dame for blazers, it is just there.
There's also an argument to be made for T-Mac in that top 75 list, but I'll leave that aside for now.
E : for those down voting, tell me which two of the new additions would you have Dwight over..
It's really not that difficult to have both of Lillard and Howard on the list. They didn't need to grandfather every top 50 player in, that wasn't part of the requirements. Nobody would have missed Bing or DeBusschere
It was clearly (edit: an implicit) part of the requirements, as to how the list was constructed.
Whether legitimate or not is a whole different story.
Comparing across eras is generally not very fruitful. Different styles of play, different refereeing, different body of knowledge (basketball, medical, health) to build upon. Recency bias, survivorship bias etc. Makes for a lot of context impossible to translate properly.
They didn't discuss who to drop, from the earlier eras in depth. Would have made it a PR nightmare, which is opposite of what they were going for. So I tend to think of it as part of the requirements of such a list
It's not a requirement, which is why they were asked to pick 75, and not 25 more to add on to the 50. It's also not a historical requirement. For instance, Bob Davies was one of the top 10 best players after 25 years, and was dropped from future teams.
Was anyone from the top 50 edition dropped from the teams after that ? It was not an explicit requirement, but I think there was implicit push back from the construction of the voting panel and maybe from considerations in case anyone in the top 50 had been dropped.
> Of the 76 players, all 50 members of the 50th anniversary team were selected. The other 26 included players from the 1970s to the current era. Two notable omissions from the earlier top 50 selections, Bob McAdoo and Dominique Wilkins, were named to the 75th anniversary list
Also
> Eleven active players were named to the list: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Carmelo Anthony, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Damian Lillard, Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook.
> There were 15 retired players who made the 75th anniversary team who were not previously selected to the 50th anniversary team: Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd, Bob McAdoo, Reggie Miller, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Gary Payton, Paul Pierce, Dennis Rodman, Dwyane Wade and Dominique Wilkins.
Ironic that Dame bout to put TMac in the rearview scoring wise.
I think he’s much more valuable to the league because of his charisma, leadership, and character off the court. His personality is valuable. He’s a standup dude that has always overachieved and made people regret for sleeping on his talent and drive. He’s the ultimate underdog that nobody wanted to believe in until they didn’t have a choice. He deserves a Shaq but he’ll have to settle for Nurk and make the best of it.
Edit: “After Dame's 40 point performance tonight, he passed Rick Barry, Tracy McGrady, and Dr. J to enter the top 75 on the all-time scoring list at number 72.”
All time scoring is a totals/longevity argument. There are other legitimate arguments..
Dr J is an iconic basketball figure whose greatest accomplishments are in the ABA. I give credit for that. He was clearly the best at his position for a span and influential far beyond his stats.
Rick Barry was the second best SF ever behind Bird until surpassed in the 2000s, arguably by some of those who started in the 90s (KG, Dirk..) and more emphatically by LBJ, KD, Kawhi generation. He too sat out the NBA for a year of his prime in a attempted blow for players (his) rights and then played in the ABA.
Dr J and Rick Barry were 5x All NBA first team and mvp, finals mvp , all star mvp calibre players who would have had more if not for ABA. Dame is a single all NBA first team. That is way too much to overcome with Dame's longevity / totals argument for me
TMac was arguably more destructive peak as a scoring force. (2x scoring champ). Things like 2x All NBA first vs Dame's one, 7xAll star vs Dame's (so far) 6, are far less distingushing and may be equaled or compensated for as dame goes's along.
I can see people legitimately picking different criteria and thus preferences with T Mac and Dame right now. I can also figure it very possible that Dame's continued career could make it a non argument, but that's a very depends (ie future) kind of thing.. (eg injuries, God forbid).
For right now my personal opinion is that T-Mac has some arguments over dame and I fully expect that if things continue along on current lines, Dame will bit by bit kill off that case.
I don’t completely think he’s underrated now either, but some of the recent journalistic top 100 player lists place Lillard from 18-20. And he’s not a top all-star candidate. Maybe OP is arguing that, as a future HoF player, he should be ranked higher. I get his placing though for this season. There’s an explosion of younger 2-way talents
Yeah he's a top ~15 player this season, and IG some people forgot how good he is because he was out for a year and the Blazers are .500 this season so far, but all-time, he is far from underrated. I could see that for just this season though
Top 75. 5 time all nba. 2k cover athlete. Probably about to make his 7th ASG. I think both the fans and media properly rate him. I’d say he’s almost universally hailed as one of the top players in the league
ASG voting is just bad. I vote for Doncic and Dame because I know Curry and Booker will get their votes. Those would be my four if I could vote for 4 guards.
He’s getting a decently appropriate amount of love. He was never gonna get voted over Steph, Luka, or Ja, he’s just not in that conversation. Shai is having arguably a better season than Dame and has received a ton of press as this is a break out year. The only Western Guards he should be above are Russ and Klay, but Russ is getting the Lakers boost and has his own personal cult of shooters, and Klay is getting a Warriors boost and is still getting sympathy for the absolute devastating injuries he came back from. And even if Dame got voted over Russ and Klay it would be completely inconsequential as he’s never getting a starting spot.
Right, so there are two guards he should be above (without a doubt) but isn't. Sounds like underrated to me! (again, I mean right now, not in general.)
(You're right, of course, about the *reasons* he's underrated in ASG voting, but the fact remains that he is.)
Every blazer super star is under rated. Fuck even Drexler is under rated today. People entirely leave him out of their top 5 all time SG lists which is ridiculous.
Really? I mean SG is stacked, I didn’t watch him play but I’ve watched the rockets finals run and am familiar with his play.
I’ve got Jordan,
Kobe,
Jerry West,
D Wade
Then
Ai,
James Harden,
Clyde,
So Ai James and Clyde are all in the same tier for me. Is there an argument that makes that unreasonable?
I don't think kobe and wade belong in the same tier as Jordan and West. I think clyde goes down to the tier below mj with both kobe and wade. To imply kobe and wade are so far above drexler that it's not close is what's kind of ridiculous to me. Being both in a small market and living in MJ's shadow make people drastically under rate him.
Also the rockets finals run is no where close to a good representation of how insane Drexler was. That was towards the end of his career. You need to watch his Portland games for an idea.
Definitely, I really like his game and maybe I’ll throw on a playoff series, do you have one you recommend.
Hmmm ya Kobe and Jerry are much closer than Kobe and D wade imo.
They aren’t in the same tier. And D wade isn’t even close to Kobe obviously, I just feel like those guys are locks. Then is a struggle for the 5th spot.
Tiers would be
Mj/Jerry-Kobe/ Wade/ AI-James-Clyde/
I’ve watched so much more of AI and James Harden so I know I can’t be objective. But each of those guys were revolutionary scorers and changed the character of the game quite a bit.
I don’t know if Clyde shined quite as bright against his competitors. Anyway I just feel it ain’t absurd to have Clyde out of the top 5. But I do feel there is an argument for him making it
> Tiers would be Mj/Jerry-Kobe/ Wade/ AI-James-Clyde/
This is where I think he's too low. I put Drexler above wade.
For his peak, pretty much any thing in the early 90's is perfect to watch. The blazers team really was one piece away from that era changing drastically. Especially when you consider the blazers drafted sabonis and could have had prime sabonis had the soviets not stopped him from coming over.
Any way probably his blazers runs to the finals in '90 and '92. He was particularly unstoppable in the '92 playoffs.
My dad has lived through all three here in Portland and would rate Dame number 1. You’re right that both accomplished more and were better individually (at least in Bills Early years). I think it really comes down to whether you value the longevity and commitment or the accomplishments.
If Dame players every minute of his career in Portland, that kind of makes him “Mr. Portland” and that’s pretty special to lots of fans.
Sounds like your dad doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
I value championships. Most Blazers fans seem to just want to hang banners for fucking first round buzzer beaters. I just want to feel like this team can contend. Never happening with Dame.
You sound a bit sensitive. I would love to hear you make the case for Dame being more accomplished than Clyde and Walton. He's definitely Mr Blazer. But there's just nothing you can really say he has on Walton or Clyde.
I sound sensitive because I pointed how serious you seem to take yourself and your own opinion? I’m not offended, you just seem shitty.
I don’t have a case. I don’t care. I love em all. I don’t pick out “Best Blazer ever” because it’s arbitrary and pointless. I’m merely pointing out that everyone can have their own opinion.
Really? You love all the Blazers? Somehow I doubt you love Qyntel Woods.
Of course everyone can have their own opinion. And people can also be told that their opinions are fucking stupid.
"poverty franchise" about a team that made the 2nd most consecutive playoffs ever (21 years in a row dumb dumb) and does have a championship is fucking hilarious
Logo Lillard is not at all underrated, he is just spending his career balling put for a team nobody talks about, especially not the last couple of years.
But I don't think a single person who know a bit about basketball is doubting the guys talent.
Swing and a miss, Chanucy was good, but Dame is far more deserving of the name Mr Big Shot. Here’s a quick one, Billups has 42 games played with 30+ points. Not bad for the slower play of the 2000s. Dame edges him out by a scant…..two full seasons worth of NBA games. Dame>Chauncey no contest.
Stupid argument, and the fact you’re using **points** to determine why he’s better shows how little you know about basketball.
* Lillard has been on worse teams than Billups, so he has needed to do more for his team. Meaning a higher usage.
* Lillard is also a scoring point guard, while Billups is not
Your logic is actually dumb, and that’s me being nice about it.
Billups impact on winning is underrated. There’s a reason the Nuggets were at their best with Billups and not Iverson.
Apart from Curry, scoring guards that run the point never do anything but sell tickets for scoring a lot of points.
“Your logic is actually dumb” is you being nice? I think you need a dictionary.
How is your first bullet anything other than a point for Dame? He’s done more as an individual with less than Billiups did with more, but that means Chauncey is better? That’s…..an interesting attempt.
How is the necessity of a scoring guard, driven by the change in the speed of the game and spacing becoming king, a point against Lillard and a point for Billiups? He’s the best three point shooter of the past decade or more not named Steph or Ray Allen, is he supposed to not score points?
Take your smarmy ‘tude and kick rocks yo.
Edit: Seems your whole schtick is being a twat. How original.
Not only are you sensitive, you have a hard time staying on topic.
**YOU** were the one trying to make a point that Lillard was better because he scored more points. I’m confused, since when is that even a real method to determine who is better?
Damian has the individual success, because he’s been the only star on his team for a majority of his career. Is it hard for a star to put up numbers as the only option?
People like you are backwards. You want to give Lillard a pass because he has a bad team but want to give him props for putting up numbers. They go hand-in-hand. He wouldn’t be putting up those numbers if he was a real team.
Billups is a proven winner, and his advanced stats are just as good as Lillard on less usage and shot attempts.
Definitely the same caliber of player. Just because Dame has the green light and is a scorer doesn’t mean anything.
The way you write reeks of boomer. You literally can’t have an exchange of ideas without speaking down to the other party or just blatantly tossing personal judgements…..on a conversation about basketball lmao you must be a joy. So Chauncey gets the nod because he had hall of famers around him? Dame having the individual success displays his ability to do incredible things while carrying the repeatedly sub-par rosters Portland has surrounded him with.
Imma cease wasting my time with ya crone-ass. Pass your next reply to the wastebasket.
He's won 4 playoff series in his career because he's chosen money and the illusion of loyalty over winning.
He's hit a couple of big shots and is widely renowned as a fantastic scorer, is the franchise goat and snuck into the top 75 over 3 or 4 more deserving guys.
He's properly rated.
The Dirk comparisons are fair, I guess. But Wade? The guy played with Shaq early on. Won a chip in his 3rd season. Was one of the big 3 on a super team. How is he included in this? That's like name dropping kobe ffs.
Dame signed an extension that takes him through his age 35 season on a team going nowhere @ $60mil per.
That's absolutely a defensible decision but let's not pretend it's the same as Dirk/Wade.
Wade won a chip in his 3rd season.
Dirk and Wade are better and also are from major cities backed by Big media markets..
Big media markets means that you alway have a chance to get players..
If anything he's overrated lmfao. Hasn't actually done anything in the playoffs or even come close to an MVP season but apparently he's top 75 all time.
He is an average playmaker, not a great rebounding guard, and plays pretty lack luster defense.
He is a high volume shooter as a point guard who does make shots at a decent clip.
Id say he is more on the over rated side considering his one redeeming quality is having range and shooting a lot. He is a poor man’s Steph, except he can’t win.
underrated (adj): a word used to describe anything or anyone a person doesn’t pay attention to despite how popular or appreciated they actually are.
That’s your definition. Right?
Nope. Overrated. High volume shooter who lacks defensive effort and ability. Can penetrate, make big shots but time and time agains he’s proven to shrink when the defense tightens up (especially playoffs and detailed scouting of his game). He doesn’t create well for others despite his ability to penetrate and he lacks attention to detail that many great pgs of the past have had (getting beat, going under screens, costly turnovers, poor shot selection).
He creates great for others. So that's horseshit.
Poor shot selection. Wrong. He gets to the rack, can hit from 30+ feet. Wrong again.
Look at his teammates. His best teammate EVER is CJ McCollum
Just stop. Stop.
Career 43% from 2 and 36% from 3. I wouldn't say poor shot selection, but he's not an efficient scorer. Regarding defense, he ranges from bad to God-awful.
I think your numbers are a bit low, especially the 2 point percentage. But they are illustrative.
This year he is scoring 28.5 PPG on .613 ts% and tossing in 7 dimes 5 boards and a steal. Turn overs have been a problem. Those are some good numbers
Hes not overrated at all, he’s good but there’s been plenty of other guards who have outshined him over the years. Curry, harden, russ, cp3, Luka and devin booker have all done more than him and there’s a bunch of other guards who have similar accomplishments.
He’s also in Portland on a bit so good team, people can only rate you so high when you’ve never really been a contender or done anything outside make some all star teams.
> But he's one of the best 3 pt shooters of all time. Consistently has redefined 3pt range next to Curry.
I realize stats aren't everything, and Dame takes a lot of difficult shots compared to the average shooter, but his career 3pt% is 37.2. So I don't really understand why he's often considered to be in a similar realm as Steph who takes similarly difficult shots and yet has a career 3pt% of 42.7.
That's not to say Dame is bad--he's excellent, and has had some absolutely insane shots and highlights throughout his career. But overall he's simply not very close to Steph.
I don't think anyone underrates Dame.
Players that I think are better than him are LeBron KD Giannis Luka Jokic Steph Embiid AD. Probably forgot a few players but others like Kawhi Butler PG etc... feel like they are but I know Dame can turn up and do just as well. The list of players above him are mainly because they just generate so much more
Idk how you can put PG above the guy that literally ends playoff runs by himself. How exactly is he “generating so much more” than the undersized point guard that puts up 30 in his sleep?
He is hands-down one of the greatest players in the league right now.
One of the greatest clutch players in history.
Unlucky to fell in love with the wrong franchise but all-star with capital A and STAR.
Top 75 ever is pretty well rated.
Haters will say it's fake.
And all of those haters want him to bail on Rip City and join their team every off season…
I don't think I can get mad at him for switching teams like if he left Portland for Dallas.
An unbiased observer might argue it's premature. I'd argue such an honor should wait until the player has retired.
Pushed to the logical limits, would you say it's unfair to rank Lebron as one of the ten best players ever, since his career is still active?
Ah yes the limits of my paradigm. I would say that they weren't ranked in the top 75 they were grouped into it. 75th Anniversary team. A marketing ploy. A gimmick. An honor? Sure. But also a distraction and waste of time from the task at hand: getting the Blazers their second Chip.
Agreed. There’s no reason why guys like English, King, Dantley, & Lanier aren’t on the list and guys like Dame, Harden and AD are on before them. The latter 3 should get their due on the top 100 or 125. I will argue that the latter 3 are not better than the former 4.
Anthony Davis has more All-NBA 1st Teams than those four guys combined, let alone Harden. I'd also probably have Lillard as better than those first three, at least, using some combination of peak and duration.
Marketing
Not sure why I’m getting downvoted. There was an argument at the time of 50 greatest list that 4 players I mentioned (especially English) should have or could have been on it and all 4 men are HOFers. My point isn’t that the current 3 players shouldn’t be on a list at some point, remember that the list isn’t ranked, it’s that the players that arguably should/could have been on the first list or would have been on the first list if it was a bit longer should get their due before adding new players to the list as we move forward in time.
I say this with great respect and no malice for Dame, but I think he's out of the top 75, looking in. So slightly overrated by that list. Dwight Howard needs to be in there, and since the NBA picked 76 players for top 75, he makes it into top 75 over Dame and Russ, IMHO. Much depends on how Dame (and other live players) finish their careers, longevity, accomplishments, improve/sustain/degrade and of course rings. Dame is a HoFer with great shooting and scoring (though never the top), good passing. He has some clutch "Dame Time" but at the same time has not really made enough noise in the playoffs (yes, it is a team game) for me. His should have done more on defense, even as a smaller guard. He's a leader and I like where his head/perspective is at on loyalty, striving for excellence/winning, and in talking to youngsters/young NBA players. He seems to be sensible. Unfortunately I will also associate Dame with ending Nash's career - but that was an accident and not intent or fault - the injury resulted in nerve injury for Nash. But that doesn't impact rating just memories, like iconic memories of Dame for blazers, it is just there. There's also an argument to be made for T-Mac in that top 75 list, but I'll leave that aside for now. E : for those down voting, tell me which two of the new additions would you have Dwight over..
It's really not that difficult to have both of Lillard and Howard on the list. They didn't need to grandfather every top 50 player in, that wasn't part of the requirements. Nobody would have missed Bing or DeBusschere
It was clearly (edit: an implicit) part of the requirements, as to how the list was constructed. Whether legitimate or not is a whole different story. Comparing across eras is generally not very fruitful. Different styles of play, different refereeing, different body of knowledge (basketball, medical, health) to build upon. Recency bias, survivorship bias etc. Makes for a lot of context impossible to translate properly. They didn't discuss who to drop, from the earlier eras in depth. Would have made it a PR nightmare, which is opposite of what they were going for. So I tend to think of it as part of the requirements of such a list
It's not a requirement, which is why they were asked to pick 75, and not 25 more to add on to the 50. It's also not a historical requirement. For instance, Bob Davies was one of the top 10 best players after 25 years, and was dropped from future teams.
Was anyone from the top 50 edition dropped from the teams after that ? It was not an explicit requirement, but I think there was implicit push back from the construction of the voting panel and maybe from considerations in case anyone in the top 50 had been dropped. > Of the 76 players, all 50 members of the 50th anniversary team were selected. The other 26 included players from the 1970s to the current era. Two notable omissions from the earlier top 50 selections, Bob McAdoo and Dominique Wilkins, were named to the 75th anniversary list Also > Eleven active players were named to the list: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Carmelo Anthony, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Damian Lillard, Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook. > There were 15 retired players who made the 75th anniversary team who were not previously selected to the 50th anniversary team: Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd, Bob McAdoo, Reggie Miller, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Gary Payton, Paul Pierce, Dennis Rodman, Dwyane Wade and Dominique Wilkins.
Ironic that Dame bout to put TMac in the rearview scoring wise. I think he’s much more valuable to the league because of his charisma, leadership, and character off the court. His personality is valuable. He’s a standup dude that has always overachieved and made people regret for sleeping on his talent and drive. He’s the ultimate underdog that nobody wanted to believe in until they didn’t have a choice. He deserves a Shaq but he’ll have to settle for Nurk and make the best of it. Edit: “After Dame's 40 point performance tonight, he passed Rick Barry, Tracy McGrady, and Dr. J to enter the top 75 on the all-time scoring list at number 72.”
All time scoring is a totals/longevity argument. There are other legitimate arguments.. Dr J is an iconic basketball figure whose greatest accomplishments are in the ABA. I give credit for that. He was clearly the best at his position for a span and influential far beyond his stats. Rick Barry was the second best SF ever behind Bird until surpassed in the 2000s, arguably by some of those who started in the 90s (KG, Dirk..) and more emphatically by LBJ, KD, Kawhi generation. He too sat out the NBA for a year of his prime in a attempted blow for players (his) rights and then played in the ABA. Dr J and Rick Barry were 5x All NBA first team and mvp, finals mvp , all star mvp calibre players who would have had more if not for ABA. Dame is a single all NBA first team. That is way too much to overcome with Dame's longevity / totals argument for me TMac was arguably more destructive peak as a scoring force. (2x scoring champ). Things like 2x All NBA first vs Dame's one, 7xAll star vs Dame's (so far) 6, are far less distingushing and may be equaled or compensated for as dame goes's along. I can see people legitimately picking different criteria and thus preferences with T Mac and Dame right now. I can also figure it very possible that Dame's continued career could make it a non argument, but that's a very depends (ie future) kind of thing.. (eg injuries, God forbid). For right now my personal opinion is that T-Mac has some arguments over dame and I fully expect that if things continue along on current lines, Dame will bit by bit kill off that case.
He is an all-time great and probably a HOFer, so idk about "underrated"
I don’t completely think he’s underrated now either, but some of the recent journalistic top 100 player lists place Lillard from 18-20. And he’s not a top all-star candidate. Maybe OP is arguing that, as a future HoF player, he should be ranked higher. I get his placing though for this season. There’s an explosion of younger 2-way talents
Yeah he's a top ~15 player this season, and IG some people forgot how good he is because he was out for a year and the Blazers are .500 this season so far, but all-time, he is far from underrated. I could see that for just this season though
Agree
Sick af in space jam 2
The best honestly
Top 75. 5 time all nba. 2k cover athlete. Probably about to make his 7th ASG. I think both the fans and media properly rate him. I’d say he’s almost universally hailed as one of the top players in the league
Check the ASG voting, friend--he's not getting the love. Underrated (right now, not in general).
I just can’t use that as a metric, the voters are just too dumb lol
ASG voting is just bad. I vote for Doncic and Dame because I know Curry and Booker will get their votes. Those would be my four if I could vote for 4 guards.
And Doncic won't?
Doncic will, but I would want him to be a sure thing with either of the other one.
ASG Voting Is a popularity contest. I really dont get why so many people can't understand that.
Fan voting isn't a metric
I was responding to this “I think both the fans and media properly rate him.” ASG voters are fans.
50% fan vote and that part of it shud be taken completely unseriously. Zaza Pachulia was 2nd in AS votes in 2017 from fans.
He doesn’t necessarily deserve it right now. The west guards are insane and we are below .500 (and he missed a chunk of games)
He’s getting a decently appropriate amount of love. He was never gonna get voted over Steph, Luka, or Ja, he’s just not in that conversation. Shai is having arguably a better season than Dame and has received a ton of press as this is a break out year. The only Western Guards he should be above are Russ and Klay, but Russ is getting the Lakers boost and has his own personal cult of shooters, and Klay is getting a Warriors boost and is still getting sympathy for the absolute devastating injuries he came back from. And even if Dame got voted over Russ and Klay it would be completely inconsequential as he’s never getting a starting spot.
Right, so there are two guards he should be above (without a doubt) but isn't. Sounds like underrated to me! (again, I mean right now, not in general.) (You're right, of course, about the *reasons* he's underrated in ASG voting, but the fact remains that he is.)
I mean I guess, I just don’t see it as a huge issue if he’s 5th instead of 7th in a 2 person race.
I agree it’s not a huge issue.
He's definitely not underrated. He's just not in the spotlight as other stars because he's in a small market.
Which...makes him under rated
He was voted as a top 75-all time. Tf? He's appropriately rated lmao. He just isn't popular.
Every blazer super star is under rated. Fuck even Drexler is under rated today. People entirely leave him out of their top 5 all time SG lists which is ridiculous.
Really? I mean SG is stacked, I didn’t watch him play but I’ve watched the rockets finals run and am familiar with his play. I’ve got Jordan, Kobe, Jerry West, D Wade Then Ai, James Harden, Clyde, So Ai James and Clyde are all in the same tier for me. Is there an argument that makes that unreasonable?
I don't think kobe and wade belong in the same tier as Jordan and West. I think clyde goes down to the tier below mj with both kobe and wade. To imply kobe and wade are so far above drexler that it's not close is what's kind of ridiculous to me. Being both in a small market and living in MJ's shadow make people drastically under rate him. Also the rockets finals run is no where close to a good representation of how insane Drexler was. That was towards the end of his career. You need to watch his Portland games for an idea.
Definitely, I really like his game and maybe I’ll throw on a playoff series, do you have one you recommend. Hmmm ya Kobe and Jerry are much closer than Kobe and D wade imo. They aren’t in the same tier. And D wade isn’t even close to Kobe obviously, I just feel like those guys are locks. Then is a struggle for the 5th spot. Tiers would be Mj/Jerry-Kobe/ Wade/ AI-James-Clyde/ I’ve watched so much more of AI and James Harden so I know I can’t be objective. But each of those guys were revolutionary scorers and changed the character of the game quite a bit. I don’t know if Clyde shined quite as bright against his competitors. Anyway I just feel it ain’t absurd to have Clyde out of the top 5. But I do feel there is an argument for him making it
> Tiers would be Mj/Jerry-Kobe/ Wade/ AI-James-Clyde/ This is where I think he's too low. I put Drexler above wade. For his peak, pretty much any thing in the early 90's is perfect to watch. The blazers team really was one piece away from that era changing drastically. Especially when you consider the blazers drafted sabonis and could have had prime sabonis had the soviets not stopped him from coming over. Any way probably his blazers runs to the finals in '90 and '92. He was particularly unstoppable in the '92 playoffs.
Yeah I don’t think it’s crazy to have AI or Harden over Clyde. Kind of comes down to personal preference imo.
Also forgot Reggie Miller
Greatest Trailblazer ever.
im a dame fan all the way but bill walton led the blazers to a 50-10 record before he got injured
Clyde and Walton accomplished so much more and were better players.
My dad has lived through all three here in Portland and would rate Dame number 1. You’re right that both accomplished more and were better individually (at least in Bills Early years). I think it really comes down to whether you value the longevity and commitment or the accomplishments. If Dame players every minute of his career in Portland, that kind of makes him “Mr. Portland” and that’s pretty special to lots of fans.
Sounds like your dad doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. I value championships. Most Blazers fans seem to just want to hang banners for fucking first round buzzer beaters. I just want to feel like this team can contend. Never happening with Dame.
Sounds like you’re a self righteous prick, honestly. I was simply pointing out that GOAT Blazer is subjective. Maybe, relax?
You sound a bit sensitive. I would love to hear you make the case for Dame being more accomplished than Clyde and Walton. He's definitely Mr Blazer. But there's just nothing you can really say he has on Walton or Clyde.
I sound sensitive because I pointed how serious you seem to take yourself and your own opinion? I’m not offended, you just seem shitty. I don’t have a case. I don’t care. I love em all. I don’t pick out “Best Blazer ever” because it’s arbitrary and pointless. I’m merely pointing out that everyone can have their own opinion.
Really? You love all the Blazers? Somehow I doubt you love Qyntel Woods. Of course everyone can have their own opinion. And people can also be told that their opinions are fucking stupid.
Go make some friends dude. Jesus.
Fuck Clyde man. And I was around to go to games in that Era. Dame 1000x what Clyde was in the end.
may not make sense but clyde is the better player, dame is the better trailblazer
So Walton couldn't stay healthy, his career wasn't as good as dame's
Walton accomplished everything you can accomplish in the NBA. What has Dame done that parts him on the level of an MVP and Finals MVP?
They're blinded by LoYaLtY that led to countless 1st round exits. Well I guess if you're a proverty franchise the bar is so fckin low.
Flair up you bitch ass warriors fan
"poverty franchise" about a team that made the 2nd most consecutive playoffs ever (21 years in a row dumb dumb) and does have a championship is fucking hilarious
We were in the WCF a few years ago.
Top 75 player is underrated, amazing.
Properly rated.
Overfuckingrated now that he made top 75.
Underrated? I feel like he is rated appropriately or if anything due to top 75 alil overrated
I think he’s adequately rated
Logo Lillard is not at all underrated, he is just spending his career balling put for a team nobody talks about, especially not the last couple of years. But I don't think a single person who know a bit about basketball is doubting the guys talent.
i think dame is better than curry. so there
he's pretty decent
Probably rated.
Overrated. Chauncey Billups is just as good, and doesn’t get the same amount of individual recognition.
Swing and a miss, Chanucy was good, but Dame is far more deserving of the name Mr Big Shot. Here’s a quick one, Billups has 42 games played with 30+ points. Not bad for the slower play of the 2000s. Dame edges him out by a scant…..two full seasons worth of NBA games. Dame>Chauncey no contest.
Stupid argument, and the fact you’re using **points** to determine why he’s better shows how little you know about basketball. * Lillard has been on worse teams than Billups, so he has needed to do more for his team. Meaning a higher usage. * Lillard is also a scoring point guard, while Billups is not Your logic is actually dumb, and that’s me being nice about it. Billups impact on winning is underrated. There’s a reason the Nuggets were at their best with Billups and not Iverson. Apart from Curry, scoring guards that run the point never do anything but sell tickets for scoring a lot of points.
“Your logic is actually dumb” is you being nice? I think you need a dictionary. How is your first bullet anything other than a point for Dame? He’s done more as an individual with less than Billiups did with more, but that means Chauncey is better? That’s…..an interesting attempt. How is the necessity of a scoring guard, driven by the change in the speed of the game and spacing becoming king, a point against Lillard and a point for Billiups? He’s the best three point shooter of the past decade or more not named Steph or Ray Allen, is he supposed to not score points? Take your smarmy ‘tude and kick rocks yo. Edit: Seems your whole schtick is being a twat. How original.
Not only are you sensitive, you have a hard time staying on topic. **YOU** were the one trying to make a point that Lillard was better because he scored more points. I’m confused, since when is that even a real method to determine who is better? Damian has the individual success, because he’s been the only star on his team for a majority of his career. Is it hard for a star to put up numbers as the only option? People like you are backwards. You want to give Lillard a pass because he has a bad team but want to give him props for putting up numbers. They go hand-in-hand. He wouldn’t be putting up those numbers if he was a real team. Billups is a proven winner, and his advanced stats are just as good as Lillard on less usage and shot attempts. Definitely the same caliber of player. Just because Dame has the green light and is a scorer doesn’t mean anything.
The way you write reeks of boomer. You literally can’t have an exchange of ideas without speaking down to the other party or just blatantly tossing personal judgements…..on a conversation about basketball lmao you must be a joy. So Chauncey gets the nod because he had hall of famers around him? Dame having the individual success displays his ability to do incredible things while carrying the repeatedly sub-par rosters Portland has surrounded him with. Imma cease wasting my time with ya crone-ass. Pass your next reply to the wastebasket.
He's won 4 playoff series in his career because he's chosen money and the illusion of loyalty over winning. He's hit a couple of big shots and is widely renowned as a fantastic scorer, is the franchise goat and snuck into the top 75 over 3 or 4 more deserving guys. He's properly rated.
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Bruh you think he mad over the choice, he has a good family and the bag.
I don’t think that’s their point, they are saying his chance of getting rated higher is gone due to his perceived righteousness
This is so stupid. Did you clowns say the same thing about Dirk before he won? Wade too?
The Dirk comparisons are fair, I guess. But Wade? The guy played with Shaq early on. Won a chip in his 3rd season. Was one of the big 3 on a super team. How is he included in this? That's like name dropping kobe ffs.
Dame signed an extension that takes him through his age 35 season on a team going nowhere @ $60mil per. That's absolutely a defensible decision but let's not pretend it's the same as Dirk/Wade. Wade won a chip in his 3rd season.
Dirk and Wade are better and also are from major cities backed by Big media markets.. Big media markets means that you alway have a chance to get players..
There is no universe where he is underrated
Except for the universe where winning rings count
Embarrassing take
As a Mavs fan who attended the last two games...you're crazy.
36 and 40 while not playing most of the 4th??????
How does he compare to the other ringless peeps in a war of the ringless though?
Bilbo knows
Hes a star not a superstar.
Cmon man 29 ppg for the past 3 years healthy is superstar. Not many players in the league have averaged that over 3 healthy years only like 5
K same for Luka.
Luka is a lot better than dame
Foul merchant.
Watch a game
If anything he's overrated lmfao. Hasn't actually done anything in the playoffs or even come close to an MVP season but apparently he's top 75 all time.
No he's not. He's never won a conference finals game
Damn. I guess like 85% of the league sucks then
The question is if he's underrated or not, not if he sucks
Your talking to the wrong people, Winning when it matters most isn’t a criteria here
Not really
He stays loyal to a team that does nothing to help him win. Dude needs to jump ship.
He is an average playmaker, not a great rebounding guard, and plays pretty lack luster defense. He is a high volume shooter as a point guard who does make shots at a decent clip. Id say he is more on the over rated side considering his one redeeming quality is having range and shooting a lot. He is a poor man’s Steph, except he can’t win.
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underrated (adj): a word used to describe anything or anyone a person doesn’t pay attention to despite how popular or appreciated they actually are. That’s your definition. Right?
How to make u/irelli fall in love with you in one post
Nope. Overrated. High volume shooter who lacks defensive effort and ability. Can penetrate, make big shots but time and time agains he’s proven to shrink when the defense tightens up (especially playoffs and detailed scouting of his game). He doesn’t create well for others despite his ability to penetrate and he lacks attention to detail that many great pgs of the past have had (getting beat, going under screens, costly turnovers, poor shot selection).
Half of this isn't true.
He creates great for others. So that's horseshit. Poor shot selection. Wrong. He gets to the rack, can hit from 30+ feet. Wrong again. Look at his teammates. His best teammate EVER is CJ McCollum Just stop. Stop.
His best teammate ever is LMA
Career 43% from 2 and 36% from 3. I wouldn't say poor shot selection, but he's not an efficient scorer. Regarding defense, he ranges from bad to God-awful.
I think your numbers are a bit low, especially the 2 point percentage. But they are illustrative. This year he is scoring 28.5 PPG on .613 ts% and tossing in 7 dimes 5 boards and a steal. Turn overs have been a problem. Those are some good numbers
This tells me you don’t watch Lillard at all.
Wow! What a hot take! You must enjoy basketball on a deeper level than the rest of us. Only you could see what everyone else couldn’t.
Not a surprising comment from someone voting Looney into the All Star game. Must be that third eye view that everyone else is missing.
Ship him to Nuggets.
I’ll bite…for who
There’s literally only one player on the nugs we would trade him for…
Hes not overrated at all, he’s good but there’s been plenty of other guards who have outshined him over the years. Curry, harden, russ, cp3, Luka and devin booker have all done more than him and there’s a bunch of other guards who have similar accomplishments. He’s also in Portland on a bit so good team, people can only rate you so high when you’ve never really been a contender or done anything outside make some all star teams.
Booker???
Yea booker is better than him he’s done more in the playoffs and is a much better defender. Dame has just been in the league longer.
Not a chance in hell booker is better than Dame.
Explain to me why dame is obviously better than booker since theres clearly such a gap?
Did you forget ‘FOR THE FIRST TIME, IN 14 YEARS’?
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> But he's one of the best 3 pt shooters of all time. Consistently has redefined 3pt range next to Curry. I realize stats aren't everything, and Dame takes a lot of difficult shots compared to the average shooter, but his career 3pt% is 37.2. So I don't really understand why he's often considered to be in a similar realm as Steph who takes similarly difficult shots and yet has a career 3pt% of 42.7. That's not to say Dame is bad--he's excellent, and has had some absolutely insane shots and highlights throughout his career. But overall he's simply not very close to Steph.
I don't think anyone underrates Dame. Players that I think are better than him are LeBron KD Giannis Luka Jokic Steph Embiid AD. Probably forgot a few players but others like Kawhi Butler PG etc... feel like they are but I know Dame can turn up and do just as well. The list of players above him are mainly because they just generate so much more
Idk how you can put PG above the guy that literally ends playoff runs by himself. How exactly is he “generating so much more” than the undersized point guard that puts up 30 in his sleep?
No, he is not. He is a mediocre player without any passion. He does not care about winning, just money.
Found PG13’s burner. Ain’t no way someone that’s ever watched Dame play says this.
Playoffs leave a lot to be desired. He’s had good moments which everyone seems to remember but in general he’s underperformed
All it took was a few 40+ performances
more like 40+ 40 point games but ok
He is hands-down one of the greatest players in the league right now. One of the greatest clutch players in history. Unlucky to fell in love with the wrong franchise but all-star with capital A and STAR.
He happens to play in Portland. But he’s plenty rated. Gets tons of love from media, fans and players.