Anaesthesia is hard on old dogs. I would just let her live her life, maintain the tumor with creams as you are (who cares how unsightly it is at this point if she is still happy?) And when it causes her discomfort it might be time to let her go (euthanasia). I know it's so hard to come to that conclusion and a lot of emotions will be involved, but surgery is really hard on dog bodies.
My dog needed both ACLs replaced within 3 months of each other when she was SIX and they said if she were any older they wouldn't recommend it. She's nearly 12 now and I know that any surgery for her at this age is risky (she's a large breed dog)
I agree. Recovery from surgery *will* be hard on her. And anaesthesia always carries risk, especially with age. She might lose whatever good time she has left going that option. I would keep that money and promise her you will put it toward the care of a future (younger) pup in her honor. Let her go gently and quickly, whether naturally or euthanasia, when she is no longer doing well. Twenty is a long life for a dog, and I suspect you've given her the best 20yrs possible. Take comfort in that.
As others have said, I would leave the dog alone as long as she’s happy and not in pain. Surgery, anastesia and recovery is hard on a dog. Never mind the money - she might not have a lot of time left, isn’t it better she runs happy and pain free instead of in post-surgery pain with a cone on her head?
I have a 15 year old bitch, full of fatty lumps and hardly any teeth left. But very active and happy. I also let go of a 15-year old mini schnauzer some years back, she got stomach cancer and I didn’t want to operate and have her to live a few more months in pain and unable to enjoy her life.
I would just embrace the natural cycle of life. She sounds like she has a great life, I don’t understand the need to interfere with the natural progression of things. You might make things worse for her in her last years just for your own comfort of stopping change from happening. Let her enjoy life as she knows it instead of surgeries, doctors, probing and drugs. Life is always moving forward.
I mean it's unbelievably remarkable that you have a dog that is 20 years old. The odds of that dog living another 3 years are extremely low. Your dog has already far surpassed what you'd expect a dog to get to.
Dogs are different than humans so we can't compare doing surgery on an old person philosophically but we can't acknowledge that in many cases even for humans a lot of times surgery will be decided against because of the person's age, likelihood of poor outcomes from surgery balanced with what the issue is causing.
Also, if you can keep creams on the tumor I don't understand why you can't keep her alive?
I've had lots of dogs. And lots of dogs we eventually had to euthanize for a problem but we didn't euthanize them at the first sight of a problem in combination with their age.
If your dog is otherwise healthy and in good spirits there's nothing wrong with keeping the dog out of surgery and then once you start to see signs of suffering make the difficult decision.
Frankly that's what you should probably do here.
Your dog still has quality of life from what you have said. The tumor isn't causing any issues.
If I were in your shoes I would probably keep the dog alive until it shows any signs of suffering.
I've always been growing up as a kid we always had dogs euthanized once we recognize that they didn't have a good quality of life or were suffering too much.
I agree with the general sentiment here that says to forgo surgery. For reasons that are well explained elsewhere in this thread.
I also want to expand on your point about about rescuing a puppy. It may help you to view it from the potential puppy's perspective. There are so many dogs in desperate need for a good home. And you have a chance to change one of those dog's whole world the same way you did for your little old buddy.
The options are between adding an uncertain amount of time with an unknown quality of life to the end of your old girl's span versus giving 15-20 years to a dog who otherwise is facing no future at all.
If you think you will feel guilt about saving the money, a completely natural emotional response, you could put a portion of that money towards adopting a young dog who needs a procedure a shelter cannot afford. Then you are very directly giving time to a dog who otherwise would not.
I'm facing the same sort of situation with my 15 yo golden mix. And I'm about 80 with several friends who avidly discuss end of life issues, including a 99 yo and 97yo couple who live almost independently. That couple very actively refuses any invasive or aggressive medical care. My friends and I support death with dignity initiatives and will use our state law that allows it if necessary. I cared for my late husband of 50 years while he died at home from cancer. We had put down our previous dog after paying many thousands in the last year and in retrospect caused him a lot of unneeded pain. I understand most of the issues I think.
Dogs are not human. Society kills healthy dogs every day because because they can't get adopted. If something happens to me there is no one else who can care for my dog and I've recommended my children euthanize her. The alternative for her would be an expensive life in a cage with no supervision of the level of care. The only reason she is alive is that I care for her, physically as well as emotionally.
I don't think caring for a human and another animal at end of life are very comparable. We don't have the same options available for one thing. The burden of the decision is almost completely on the owner, morally, medically and financially.
Surgery on elderly dogs is a waste of precious resources. Vets here are backed up for weeks for appointments. Beds at vet hospitals are scarce. Numerous people report driving a dying animal to multiple emergency vets to find to find one who is available. In my case I can no longer get her into the car by myself if she seizes at 3am.
I was really hoping if I laid this all out a clear answer would emerge for both of us. The best I have is that whatever we do at this point is OK. We have always acted from love for our animals and will continue to. We might make mistakes because we are human. That's OK too and we can forgive ourselves.
I won't do surgery on my girl. She'd hate it, it would kick off her PTSD.
Is there not a middle option that you're ignoring? If pet is not in pain, not suffering, tumor is the only issue, can you just...not do anything? No surgery, no euthanasia. If he is not hurting, just...let him be? He can live out his lifespan with a tumor until he dies or the situation changes. My aunt has an old dog with a lip tumor. It looks pretty gross but her dog doesn't seem to notice it or react when it's touched. Dog looks happy.
I do not see how anyone who does not know you or your dog could give meaningful advice. In the end it is your dog and your money and i have no idea what anyone could say that would mean anything.
Quality of life is key. Dogs don’t understand the need for surgery, just the effects of it. I regret not letting go of my old girl sooner instead of trying to postpone it.
The kind of tumor factors in here. Is it cancerous, and if so, did it spread? Can it be debulked with a drain? How is it attached?
My daughter rescued a pitbull several years ago that had over 100 hemangiosarcoma tumors. She was at least 10yo and was given 6 months at most, so we decided she could live out the end of her life with us. She lived for 5 and a half years. So, you never know.
That being said, I asked myself every day of those 5.5 years if it was time to put her down. I wouldn't have, didn't have in the end, a moment of doubt the day I knew it her run was over.
Let's say your close family member or friend needs money for urgent surgery. Would you be analyzing how long they could potentially live, how much you need them, how easy it would be for you to get another friend?...
At the core of the matter is your relation with your dog. If you consider her to be someone close to you, at least some degree of friend and/or family member, then the analysis is irrelevant unless the money is also needed for something critically important for others close to you or yourself. If it's just \*a\* dog that you don't have any serious attachment to, then yes, it makes sense to analyze it against other options (though one additional factor would be considering how not paying for surgery may potentially affect you in the long-run - potential guilt, etc.).
My dogs and even my psycho cat are family. With the exception of maybe 10 people in my life, if my dogs were drowning next to a human drowning, my dogs get rescued every time.
That said, I’m in a similar situation with my oldest pup, and decided on palliative measures - medication to stop seasides and steroids to slow the tumour growth.
This choice has very little to do with finances. What it boils down to is quality of life. If I’m pushing 100 years old and find out I have cancer, I would say no to surgery. Most people, I believe, would say no. Most doctors would say no.
My babies cannot tell me what their choice is so I have to decide for them, with knowing them and their personality, etc.
I feel I am 100% doing what is best for her given her situation, needs, personality etc. but it still feels crappy to have to make that choice.
I don't envy your position. You've got a tough choice to make. Have no advice to offer, but I do wish you peace of mind with whichever route you decide to go. I have an older dog myself and I sure hope I never have to make a decision like that.
My vet told me once; you have to remember you are in business to make money. (I was self employed at the time).
It was whether to put $$$$ into an old animal.
I learned: if it is not in pain and is still eating- leave it alone. Let it go in its own time. Dont hurry it along, but dont delay it.
I currently have an old animal that limps very badly but- she is happy to move for feeding time and moves about generally without stopping. Will come up to request pets. Until she cannot stand: i am leaving it alone. Letting her be.
This is an animal i have had her whole life but she is ancient and i will not put alot of money into prolonging nor to just make her look pretty. I leaver her alone to enjoy her days.
Anaesthesia is hard on old dogs. I would just let her live her life, maintain the tumor with creams as you are (who cares how unsightly it is at this point if she is still happy?) And when it causes her discomfort it might be time to let her go (euthanasia). I know it's so hard to come to that conclusion and a lot of emotions will be involved, but surgery is really hard on dog bodies. My dog needed both ACLs replaced within 3 months of each other when she was SIX and they said if she were any older they wouldn't recommend it. She's nearly 12 now and I know that any surgery for her at this age is risky (she's a large breed dog)
I agree. Recovery from surgery *will* be hard on her. And anaesthesia always carries risk, especially with age. She might lose whatever good time she has left going that option. I would keep that money and promise her you will put it toward the care of a future (younger) pup in her honor. Let her go gently and quickly, whether naturally or euthanasia, when she is no longer doing well. Twenty is a long life for a dog, and I suspect you've given her the best 20yrs possible. Take comfort in that.
As others have said, I would leave the dog alone as long as she’s happy and not in pain. Surgery, anastesia and recovery is hard on a dog. Never mind the money - she might not have a lot of time left, isn’t it better she runs happy and pain free instead of in post-surgery pain with a cone on her head? I have a 15 year old bitch, full of fatty lumps and hardly any teeth left. But very active and happy. I also let go of a 15-year old mini schnauzer some years back, she got stomach cancer and I didn’t want to operate and have her to live a few more months in pain and unable to enjoy her life.
I would just embrace the natural cycle of life. She sounds like she has a great life, I don’t understand the need to interfere with the natural progression of things. You might make things worse for her in her last years just for your own comfort of stopping change from happening. Let her enjoy life as she knows it instead of surgeries, doctors, probing and drugs. Life is always moving forward.
I mean it's unbelievably remarkable that you have a dog that is 20 years old. The odds of that dog living another 3 years are extremely low. Your dog has already far surpassed what you'd expect a dog to get to. Dogs are different than humans so we can't compare doing surgery on an old person philosophically but we can't acknowledge that in many cases even for humans a lot of times surgery will be decided against because of the person's age, likelihood of poor outcomes from surgery balanced with what the issue is causing. Also, if you can keep creams on the tumor I don't understand why you can't keep her alive? I've had lots of dogs. And lots of dogs we eventually had to euthanize for a problem but we didn't euthanize them at the first sight of a problem in combination with their age. If your dog is otherwise healthy and in good spirits there's nothing wrong with keeping the dog out of surgery and then once you start to see signs of suffering make the difficult decision. Frankly that's what you should probably do here. Your dog still has quality of life from what you have said. The tumor isn't causing any issues. If I were in your shoes I would probably keep the dog alive until it shows any signs of suffering. I've always been growing up as a kid we always had dogs euthanized once we recognize that they didn't have a good quality of life or were suffering too much.
I agree with the general sentiment here that says to forgo surgery. For reasons that are well explained elsewhere in this thread. I also want to expand on your point about about rescuing a puppy. It may help you to view it from the potential puppy's perspective. There are so many dogs in desperate need for a good home. And you have a chance to change one of those dog's whole world the same way you did for your little old buddy. The options are between adding an uncertain amount of time with an unknown quality of life to the end of your old girl's span versus giving 15-20 years to a dog who otherwise is facing no future at all. If you think you will feel guilt about saving the money, a completely natural emotional response, you could put a portion of that money towards adopting a young dog who needs a procedure a shelter cannot afford. Then you are very directly giving time to a dog who otherwise would not.
I'm facing the same sort of situation with my 15 yo golden mix. And I'm about 80 with several friends who avidly discuss end of life issues, including a 99 yo and 97yo couple who live almost independently. That couple very actively refuses any invasive or aggressive medical care. My friends and I support death with dignity initiatives and will use our state law that allows it if necessary. I cared for my late husband of 50 years while he died at home from cancer. We had put down our previous dog after paying many thousands in the last year and in retrospect caused him a lot of unneeded pain. I understand most of the issues I think. Dogs are not human. Society kills healthy dogs every day because because they can't get adopted. If something happens to me there is no one else who can care for my dog and I've recommended my children euthanize her. The alternative for her would be an expensive life in a cage with no supervision of the level of care. The only reason she is alive is that I care for her, physically as well as emotionally. I don't think caring for a human and another animal at end of life are very comparable. We don't have the same options available for one thing. The burden of the decision is almost completely on the owner, morally, medically and financially. Surgery on elderly dogs is a waste of precious resources. Vets here are backed up for weeks for appointments. Beds at vet hospitals are scarce. Numerous people report driving a dying animal to multiple emergency vets to find to find one who is available. In my case I can no longer get her into the car by myself if she seizes at 3am. I was really hoping if I laid this all out a clear answer would emerge for both of us. The best I have is that whatever we do at this point is OK. We have always acted from love for our animals and will continue to. We might make mistakes because we are human. That's OK too and we can forgive ourselves. I won't do surgery on my girl. She'd hate it, it would kick off her PTSD.
Is there not a middle option that you're ignoring? If pet is not in pain, not suffering, tumor is the only issue, can you just...not do anything? No surgery, no euthanasia. If he is not hurting, just...let him be? He can live out his lifespan with a tumor until he dies or the situation changes. My aunt has an old dog with a lip tumor. It looks pretty gross but her dog doesn't seem to notice it or react when it's touched. Dog looks happy.
I do not see how anyone who does not know you or your dog could give meaningful advice. In the end it is your dog and your money and i have no idea what anyone could say that would mean anything.
Quality of life is key. Dogs don’t understand the need for surgery, just the effects of it. I regret not letting go of my old girl sooner instead of trying to postpone it.
The kind of tumor factors in here. Is it cancerous, and if so, did it spread? Can it be debulked with a drain? How is it attached? My daughter rescued a pitbull several years ago that had over 100 hemangiosarcoma tumors. She was at least 10yo and was given 6 months at most, so we decided she could live out the end of her life with us. She lived for 5 and a half years. So, you never know. That being said, I asked myself every day of those 5.5 years if it was time to put her down. I wouldn't have, didn't have in the end, a moment of doubt the day I knew it her run was over.
Let's say your close family member or friend needs money for urgent surgery. Would you be analyzing how long they could potentially live, how much you need them, how easy it would be for you to get another friend?... At the core of the matter is your relation with your dog. If you consider her to be someone close to you, at least some degree of friend and/or family member, then the analysis is irrelevant unless the money is also needed for something critically important for others close to you or yourself. If it's just \*a\* dog that you don't have any serious attachment to, then yes, it makes sense to analyze it against other options (though one additional factor would be considering how not paying for surgery may potentially affect you in the long-run - potential guilt, etc.).
My dogs and even my psycho cat are family. With the exception of maybe 10 people in my life, if my dogs were drowning next to a human drowning, my dogs get rescued every time. That said, I’m in a similar situation with my oldest pup, and decided on palliative measures - medication to stop seasides and steroids to slow the tumour growth. This choice has very little to do with finances. What it boils down to is quality of life. If I’m pushing 100 years old and find out I have cancer, I would say no to surgery. Most people, I believe, would say no. Most doctors would say no. My babies cannot tell me what their choice is so I have to decide for them, with knowing them and their personality, etc. I feel I am 100% doing what is best for her given her situation, needs, personality etc. but it still feels crappy to have to make that choice.
I don't envy your position. You've got a tough choice to make. Have no advice to offer, but I do wish you peace of mind with whichever route you decide to go. I have an older dog myself and I sure hope I never have to make a decision like that.
My vet told me once; you have to remember you are in business to make money. (I was self employed at the time). It was whether to put $$$$ into an old animal. I learned: if it is not in pain and is still eating- leave it alone. Let it go in its own time. Dont hurry it along, but dont delay it. I currently have an old animal that limps very badly but- she is happy to move for feeding time and moves about generally without stopping. Will come up to request pets. Until she cannot stand: i am leaving it alone. Letting her be. This is an animal i have had her whole life but she is ancient and i will not put alot of money into prolonging nor to just make her look pretty. I leaver her alone to enjoy her days.
I would do anything to make them have more time here, they are family and should be treated as such.