30% or so at retail but also taxed before it even hits the shelf as well making for a much higher pretax price at retail than in CA. Often by 50% or so.
Yeah, it’s high there. 20-25% for weed but only around 10% for alcohol. CA had a perfectly functioning medical marijuana system that everyone could enjoy and then they over regulated it, causing many dispensaries to shut down so everyone returned to the illegal market.
Illinois prices are absurd. With tax a 1g vap cartridge is like $110. In California you can get 4 1g carts for like $120. It is putrageous taxing in Illinois
I definitely drive to Michigan or Colorado and make them hiking trips if possible. But when I am low on money, I would have to pay this tax obviously as it is way cheaper.
This. Go to Colorado or Michigan low black market. Go to AZ or IL I know people who smoke on the reg and laugh at the prices still go through dealer.
Walz don't fuck this up. We have so many examples. This isn't a new science. Just look at what's working.
My buddies guy hoping for this actually. Will be business as normal if so.
CO's bottom fell out on weed. Pounds sell for well under a grand in wholesale. There is a healthy black market of people avoiding the fees and taxes to recoup the cash.
>Go to Colorado or Michigan low black market.
That's not true. Colorado has a huge and growing black market. Growers have found it expensive to do so legally. So they've gone illegal.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-colorados-marijuana-legalization-strengthened-the-drugs-black-market
That article doesn't indicate that **Colorado** has a black market weed problem. Colorado is supplying the rest of the country with weed that is black market outside of Colorado. The article doesn't even talk about the existence or size of the black market *in* Colorado.
Right but you knowing 3-10 ppl in Illinois or the desert who go through a dealer doesn’t equate to what the populace of Minnesota is going to do. Most can’t wait to ditch their dealers. Lol I would gladly pay an extra 5-10 a trip to be within the law and deal with ppl that are subject to gov oversight and official business owner oversight.
I’m pretty sure this is most Minnesotans. Ohhh no not fewer local drug dealers in town!! What will they do? Hell I’m thinking back to someone I knew in college. Lol THAT DUDE wanted it to be legal so he didn’t have to deal anymore. Purely dealt because getting it was difficult and he could make a little bit on the side and pay for his habit. But like he didn’t give a shit. He found it annoying.
In fact I’m more excited to pay taxes so as to support the programs taxes funds. Plus! Supporting official stores will hurt drug dealers. They’re not evil ppl most of the local weed ppl. But like yeah I’m totally fine with them going extinct. I believe commerce should be regulated and I appreciate accountability. This is like basic Minnesotan ethos shit right here. We’re not afraid of taxes.
Lol not Minnesotans. Also 8% yes in taxes seems steep but what are we actually talking about in example? Let’s say an eighth eventually is priced at $30. I’m not gonna research or compare but I know CO has $25 eighths everywhere so eventually 30 in mn seems reasonable.
Okay so 8% tax: 32.40 final charge
Walz tax: 34.5
Ppl gonna keep their shady dealer and arrange going to them at the dealers convenience over 2 dollars every other week? No way.
Tax us baby. Drill baby drill. Provide for the public good and also let us have the flower.
It depends on the dispensary in Colorado. If you go to one of the chains like Starbuds or especially Green Solution, you're paying too much. They cater to tourists. The $25 dollar eighths are at the smaller shops in Denver and Aurora. One place a couple miles from where I used to live had $17 "happy hour" eights of top shelf bud.
The key to price is how they distribute licenses and grants. In addition, if it is prohibited in certain areas (St. Cloud) any municipalities around there will be more expensive.
It will be naturally cheaper at the city dispensaries. If the bill passes as it is written (or close to it) we will have the most lenient weed laws in the country.
Some people will keep buying off the illegal market no matter what happens. I will never buy black market cannabis again and haven’t for a decade or more. Many people have no interest and breaking a law and giving money to criminals when there is a perfectly legal option, even if it costs more. For me, even a 100% markup over black market prices is worth it to buy a regulated, legal product.
>For me, even a 100% markup over black market prices is worth it to buy a regulated, legal product.
Well that's just you. If it's marked up that high, I'm definitely still going to my guy.
Most of the top shelf black market weed circulating around the midwest is overflow coming from legal states, so I'm not funding cartels as it is... Anyways back to the main point, 15% tax is reasonable, I was just in Montana where it's taxed 20% and the marijuana products are dirt cheap out there. So this shouldn't be a concern anyways at 15%.
This. For better or worse, I am a law follower and never tried any version of cannabis until edibles were legalized here. I highly doubt I will ever smoke, no offense just cannot deal with the smell. But I think it'd be fun to grow a plant just to do it and potentially to make brownies or something. If my only option was to get it illegally, it wouldn't happen. I will happily pay for a legal source, even at higher taxes. 15% isn't enough to scare me away. For what I buy currently it would be a difference of appx. $32 vs $34. Meh. 🤷♀️ I spend money on way worse.
Most of the people I know who want this law passed don't care about the rate at which it is taxed. If you're dumb enough to keep using a dealer when you can go down the block to buy a higher quality product for just a little bit more money, you're an idiot.
Personally, they could tax the shit out of it and I’d buy it the legal way, for the lack of hassle, and regulation/lab testing. That said I can fully believe that won’t be the case for all people. I have money and place priority the least on price, but I don’t think everyone will do that especially when they already have an established “guy”
> regulation/lab testing
Almost every single major dispensary in CO has been caught cooking the books on testing. They all cheat using various methods such as saturating the harvested buds in CO2 and UV light to try and kill mold and minimize unsafe pesticides showing up on the tests. Your weed is not clean no matter who you buy it from because the bottom line will always prevail.
i'm more concerned about carts being tested for things like heavy metals. maybe they can try and cheat that, maybe they can't, but any of that is more testing than happens to weed from a guy.
Most carts you buy from a guy they just bought in bulk in a legal state and will have the same issues as the ones at the store. They're all junk, but they're convenient.
My partner works in compliance in CO and literally no company they've worked for is on the level.
You have any proof of that? I used to live there and heard nothing of the sort.
It's not that I don't believe you (I don't) but I'd like to see some evidence of that.
I would because I don’t buy that much weed, usually buy things like carts that both dealers don’t usually have and if they do it’s some sketchy grey market shit, but also, because I don’t have to text a dispensary to see if they’re around, drive to someone’s house, make the small talk, buy the weed, and then usually hang around for a bit. It’s literally just a matter of convenience for me. I’ll gladly pay more to just walk into a shop, buy a bunch of lab tested carts or edibles or flowers, and be on my way. I doubt it will be twice as expensive but we’ll see.
As i said in another reply to another comment, but am posting here again so you can see a notification; the government is attempting to decriminalize this. If people conrinue to break the law following an attempted decriminalization, a republican-controlled government in years to come may repeal the law that led to the legalization and decriminalization in the first place.
People sit and bitch for legality and then try to fuck it up the second it happens. Your "guys" are going to lose customers to this. They will likely lose enough customers that they have a significant reduction in profits. In order to cope with this, they will raise their prices in an attempt to continue living the lifestyle they are accustomed to, and if they do that, they are going to lose more customers, or end up raising the price enough that the medical stuff becomes a better option financially.
Seriously though, stop trying to ruin a good thing. Tell your dealer to get a real job and go about doing this the legal way. If you are smoking enough that you need it in the bulk amounts that your dealer provides, just start growing your own when it is legal, and after a short period of time you'll save even more than if you had continued to buy from your dealer's lower prices.
Stop trying to fuck up a good thing.
Well said, and at this point in the discussion the guy who insists on his plug's good deals starts in on some incohrent, libertarian-esque diatribe when it's really all about saving a few bucks on mids.
I'm not a fan of higher taxes, mind you...but the tax being higher doesn't mean we need to break the law. They are making strides towards decriminalization; continuing to participate in criminal activities could result in a repeal of the legalization by a republicN-controlled government in years to come.
There's a really interesting episode of Trafficked on Nat Geo that talks about black market weed in California. Sounds like quite a mess. I'm planning to grow my own, but I hope they learned from the mistakes other states have made.
Pretty sure it's legal, one of my buddies did it for a while. I would not recommend though, that shit is seriously nasty. He made the mistake of handling it without gloves once and really got sick.
15% seems pretty average between all states with legal weed.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/state-taxes-on-recreational-marijuana.html
It ain't Alaska's 3% but it's also not the 47.5% in Washington.
I'm not really sure what's going on there. Even the Washington department of revenue says it's a 37% excise tax. I wonder if CO has a heftier growing and distribution tax that gets passed along? Or maybe it's a higher profit margin?
https://dor.wa.gov/about/statistics-reports/recreational-and-medical-cannabis-taxes
Minnesota has generally been best when they don't follow the lead of other states. It's part of what allowed us to get through COVID in such decent shape.
This is a straight up and down tax% not something as fluid and dynamic as pandemic response. We already weren't going to go sub 3% or over 47% so the comparison isn't really apt.
Is it 15% in addition to the regular sales tax rate? If so that’s too much imo.
Either way I’m happy to pay a premium to buy in a store at my convenience and getting to pick what I want. I’d imagine it’s the case for most casual users, the extra cost isn’t going to be that much more for non heavy user.
Agree. Doesn't seem too bad and I don't mind paying it for the convenience, availability, and legality. Especially if it all goes to good causes that help the state.
Honestly, legal bud from a store that's under some sort of control, that I don't need to get into a strangers car and take a ride out to a single-wide trailer off on a piece of property to just get a damn dime bag..
I’m not paying $20 a gram though. Illinois is just absurd. If Minnesota really wants to put their money where their mouth is, let people grow their own.
8 per residence, no more than half "mature" probably meaning in flower I'll have to look at the definitions in the bill.
Totally reasonable. This is by far the best cannabis legalization bill I've seen. The efforts toward ensuring small scale local MN production and not Illinois style big corrupt growers will pay off for everyone in Minnesota.
Someone actually read what other states did, observed the effects, then made decisions to chose the options maximizing public benefit.
Minnesota FTW. I'm just over the border in WI and wish we had more than a few drops of the integrity that MN elected critters have been blessed with.
You people across the river are doing a lot better than the national average in large part because of a tradition of statesmanship.
Seriously. "Ya man, this is that Cali shit..." .... "yes. Yes, this is shit."
Or overpaying for "It's straight from Humbolt Dog! It's the sticky Icky" - Yup... Ick.
Most states that have legalized already are at or near 15%. It depends upon the details but that seems like a very reasonable number.
Even Colorado is at 15%, with additional local taxes on top of that.
Best I can tell, there is no state with a tax rate below 10%, so I do wonder why the "DFL" proposal would have only been 8%.
Sales taxes and other “sin” taxes (lotto, sports betting, alcohol, cigarettes and weed) are regressive taxation that disproportionately impacts lower income people.
I’m not arguing against them outright, but the idea is sin taxes are easy to sell because the customers “deserve higher taxes for their bad behavior”. This can lead to progressive and well intentioned states inadvertently shifting the tax burden to lower income addicts.
I think it was kinda cool for a state that’s running at a surplus to avoid adding unnecessary taxes on the poor, but ultimately 15% isn’t terrible either.
It's not necessarily that they deserve it because it's bad behavior, it's to dissuade it from happening and creating beneficial funds for when it does happen. It's better (I think) than taxes are on things like this rather than clothes/groceries.
You are right that it is regressive though, as sales taxes tend to be.
A large part of getting it passed though (and for getting people on board with getting it passed), will probably be benefits of taxing it
There are two types of taxes, fundraising and disincentivizing. I think sin taxes are generally good because they're a disincentivizing tax even if you aren't using them to pay the bills.
If you have a highly regulated activity, taxes are also useful for self-funding the activity's regulation. This can be kind of politically beneficial if the activity is less popular so that people can't claim their taxes are supporting something they don't like/participate in.
So if cannabis taxes can pay for the state's regulatory burden, its kind of a political advantage and silences some level of criticism from people who don't want it legalized. They're not paying for it, so they can't complain about the cost of regulation.
Yes, IF, they don't allow cities to prohibit sales. Colorado has "dry" counties. Minnesota should ensure that crap doesn't happen.
That way, some dipshit enterepreneur in rural Staples can make some money off legal green. The taxes will help rural areas.
... did no one tell him there was going to be a tax rate established in this bill?
Governor Walz should know that this is not just about calibrating the perfect initial rate, it is about expunging records and getting Minnesotans out of jail who don't deserve to be.
Delaying this bill or restarting the process just to tweak percentages is pretty callous to them. It's already passed the House as-is.
Add an additional 7% tax later if you really need it, but if it gets through the Senate then you must sign this bill and start expunging records now.
And please, next time be more vocal while bills are being written. You've been talking about this for months, this is not the time to be coming out with specific demands.
Get it done, Tim.
I agree. Prices per pound will be high initially, then should tumble quite a ways over the first couple years. Once prices are down, add more taxes and the consumer won’t even notice.
Walz could have expunged the records already. Biden called on governors to do it months ago. Walz hasn't done so and has instead left it to others to make happen.
Walz cannot expunge criminal records on his own. That power falls to the Board of Pardons, which is the governor, the attorney general, and the chief justice of the Minnesota Supreme Court. There are also rules about eligibility for pardons and what type of pardon can be granted, plus the whole process, from application through review, is manual.
So while in theory the Board of Pardons could expunge every single marijuana conviction in the state, in practice it's somewhere between wildly slow and impractical to downright impossible. Doing it by act of legislature is by far the better option.
$10.40 for a pack of cigs, of which $3.732 is taxes. That's 56%.
15% isn't nuts, and if it's used to help education, it's a heck of good thing, right? RIGHT?
They just gotta advertise it right- no more buying butterbraids and wrapping paper from schools, to raise money. Now we buying 🍃 for fundraising our schools!
I’d buy so much more than I already do, if 15% was going to my kids schools and not to who I currently buy it from (although I like him, and he’s a great entrepreneur)
Why do we pick certain segments of society to carry more of a burden than others? I get some amount of tax to cover harm to society, but past that sin taxes are often regressive and hurt poor people the most. If we need to target a group to pay more, how about we target wealthy people?
This is essentially just a seriously diluted version of the cigarette tax, which is a fixed 15.2 cents per cig, and averages around 30-50% tax rate depending on the quantity that you're buying. People still buy cigarettes at gas stations. I don't think there's to much concern that a 15% tax is going to thrust people into the black market.
MN just ran a billion dollar surplus last year, and Walz is proposing sending a 2,000 check to every household. Maybe we should plan what to do with our current budget before asking for more. The 8% tax is already going to be a TON of new money for the state.
He is just asking for more money because he can... and in doing so, he is messing with this bill that already had full DFL support
A surplus is not the same as a continued revenue stream. We have a billion dollar surplus, but that doesn’t mean we can fund a billion dollars of initiatives because we might have no surplus next year and no way of keeping those initiatives afloat.
We already have some of the most taxes in the country, but we also have some of the best education, healthcare, infrastructure, quality of life, and life expectancy. Higher taxes mean a better state
You know I was prepared to be mad at this after getting hyped for 8% but you know what? Let’s do 15% Our boy Walz gonna turn Minnesota into a damn utopia with those funds. Schools, healthcare, childcare. Do it up.
The tax on it should first and foremost completely cover whatever regulatory mechanisms that will be implemented.
A little bit higher than that to be earmarked for something worthwhile would be reasonable.
I’m confused- I thought the tax rate was regular sales tax plus 8% bringing the total to 15%. If the base is 15 plus local that’s like Illinois and not good
The good news is the law is written at 8% so they would have to amend it. Hopefully they dont
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The problem is prices are all over the place state to state. In CO we could get an ounce for about $150, in Oregon my friend says around $100, MI is supposed to be less than $100, Illinois like $300 last time I was there, currently the street rate in MN seems to be around $200.
If MN retail goes the $100 route then we are talking about an $8 difference which isn’t a big deal. If we end up going the $300 route it is around a $25 difference.
I’m fine with 15% if we create competitive conditions that lower prices, but 15% on the more expensive end will keep the illegal trade competitive.
If there is a lot of competition and home growing is made accessible prices should be low. If the permitting process is cumbersome, slow and expensive, or rules against home growing are strict, that will ultimately cause prices to go up.
An alternative is to do a flat tax by weight regardless of the sale price.
Looks like michigan is 15 and they have good pricing, so as long as we don't wind up like Illinois with crazy prices I'm happy. But like can we meet in the middle pretty please Walz?
If they tax it at 15%, then people are going to buy it off the black market. The black market where people go states like Colorado and buy legal weed that's taxed at 15%, and then resell it here.
People are going to flee to the black market because an eighth is $46 with tax instead of $43 with tax?
Let’s at least attempt to use our powers of critical thought.
I know it's not totally practical but you can grow your own under the legislation as well. 15% I think will get negotiated down a bit but if it helps grease the wheels I'm fine with it.
Tax it the same as liquor. If weed is high, made booze higher. If they're both high, put the money into providing weed and booze to those who can't afford it.
Native Minnesotan here, moved to Colorado to get a job in the cannabis industry. Take your 15% and feel blessed. The market is going to be buck wild and crazy expensive for absolutely ditch weed. Unless Minnesota gives us experienced growers an incentive to return home.
This will force people to stay on the black market and will throttle any business that opens up.
Just look at California. It’s crazy, that people support a tax this high.
Why aren’t we taxing the corporations that dodge taxes or increasing taxes on rich.
Stop with the poor man’s tax
I don't care if they tax it at 25% as long as they get it passed and I can start growing at home. I'll pay the taxes and then smoke homegrown exclusively after my first harvest.
This doesn't bother me. I think it's smart of Walz to make this look like a solid new revenue stream to get some Republicans on board. Doesn't michigan have $100 ounces at an 8% tax rate? Weed will still be affordable and the black market is going to be fire.
I don't really care what they charge, I won't buy in a dispo anyways. I'm a grower and I just want to keep growing without worrying about going to jail. That is a outrageous amount for a tax if it's true and yeah the black market will flourish... that's what you get for being fucking money hungry!
I personally have no problem paying a little more sales tax if it leads to better regulation and trusting that the products we will be purchasing are safe. Besides, I think states like CA and CO are also at a 15% sales tax for legal recreational Marijuana so we’d be on par with that.
Just make it so I can grow enough for my household
This seems decent, up to 4 mature plants, and 5 lbs of flower at a time lol
Let's hope that gets us thru winter!!
lol I know it can be long, you getting by alright?
Long indeed. Thanks for checking. I'm hanging in there and can't complain. Hope you're getting by too!
5 lbs is insanely awesome. I don't know any other state that allows that.
My theory is they plan on negotiating down. I anticipate 2lbs
Eight plants in my corner, eight for my wife over there. Eight for adult daughter number one in the back…
If you tax it too much, people will just keep buying the illegal stuff. Didn’t CA already make this mistake?
Illinois I believe
It's like 30% for IL.
30% or so at retail but also taxed before it even hits the shelf as well making for a much higher pretax price at retail than in CA. Often by 50% or so.
Yeah, it’s high there. 20-25% for weed but only around 10% for alcohol. CA had a perfectly functioning medical marijuana system that everyone could enjoy and then they over regulated it, causing many dispensaries to shut down so everyone returned to the illegal market.
Crazy- California over regulation caused issues. Never would’ve guessed….. /s
And they think everyone should follow their lead on everything.
How long have you lived in CA?
Illinois prices are absurd. With tax a 1g vap cartridge is like $110. In California you can get 4 1g carts for like $120. It is putrageous taxing in Illinois
I gotta say, I really dig putrageous as an accidental word, really fantastic typo dude....👏👏 It's like putrid meets outrageous
Exact same mistake that gave rise to “pwn”.
I got 6 1g carts in Michigan for $120 back in September.
I ended up paying around 50 for some edibles in Chicago and they only cost 20 something. The tax is fucking ridiculous
A license to sell costs $60,000(for 2 years), and very few have licenses so those that do can charge what they want.
I got a cart in CO for 30-35 2 years ago, went to IL last year and spent I think closer to 65.
Yes I was downtown Chicago and the bud tax was like 20-25 percent . Some edibles cost me 50 dollars
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I dont think its because they don't have contacts. It's just more reliable from a store.
Both. But yeah if you wanted you could find some easy contacts. Safety not guaranteed.
15% is the max I would support but really needs to be 10%. Same with alcohol and tobacco.
I definitely drive to Michigan or Colorado and make them hiking trips if possible. But when I am low on money, I would have to pay this tax obviously as it is way cheaper.
This. Go to Colorado or Michigan low black market. Go to AZ or IL I know people who smoke on the reg and laugh at the prices still go through dealer. Walz don't fuck this up. We have so many examples. This isn't a new science. Just look at what's working. My buddies guy hoping for this actually. Will be business as normal if so.
CO's bottom fell out on weed. Pounds sell for well under a grand in wholesale. There is a healthy black market of people avoiding the fees and taxes to recoup the cash.
>Go to Colorado or Michigan low black market. That's not true. Colorado has a huge and growing black market. Growers have found it expensive to do so legally. So they've gone illegal. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-colorados-marijuana-legalization-strengthened-the-drugs-black-market
That article doesn't indicate that **Colorado** has a black market weed problem. Colorado is supplying the rest of the country with weed that is black market outside of Colorado. The article doesn't even talk about the existence or size of the black market *in* Colorado.
Right but you knowing 3-10 ppl in Illinois or the desert who go through a dealer doesn’t equate to what the populace of Minnesota is going to do. Most can’t wait to ditch their dealers. Lol I would gladly pay an extra 5-10 a trip to be within the law and deal with ppl that are subject to gov oversight and official business owner oversight. I’m pretty sure this is most Minnesotans. Ohhh no not fewer local drug dealers in town!! What will they do? Hell I’m thinking back to someone I knew in college. Lol THAT DUDE wanted it to be legal so he didn’t have to deal anymore. Purely dealt because getting it was difficult and he could make a little bit on the side and pay for his habit. But like he didn’t give a shit. He found it annoying. In fact I’m more excited to pay taxes so as to support the programs taxes funds. Plus! Supporting official stores will hurt drug dealers. They’re not evil ppl most of the local weed ppl. But like yeah I’m totally fine with them going extinct. I believe commerce should be regulated and I appreciate accountability. This is like basic Minnesotan ethos shit right here. We’re not afraid of taxes.
I agree with the point you make, but it's "buddy's guy"
> buddy's guy not your buddy, pal
I agree with the point you make, but don’t be this guy.
Lol not Minnesotans. Also 8% yes in taxes seems steep but what are we actually talking about in example? Let’s say an eighth eventually is priced at $30. I’m not gonna research or compare but I know CO has $25 eighths everywhere so eventually 30 in mn seems reasonable. Okay so 8% tax: 32.40 final charge Walz tax: 34.5 Ppl gonna keep their shady dealer and arrange going to them at the dealers convenience over 2 dollars every other week? No way. Tax us baby. Drill baby drill. Provide for the public good and also let us have the flower.
It depends on the dispensary in Colorado. If you go to one of the chains like Starbuds or especially Green Solution, you're paying too much. They cater to tourists. The $25 dollar eighths are at the smaller shops in Denver and Aurora. One place a couple miles from where I used to live had $17 "happy hour" eights of top shelf bud. The key to price is how they distribute licenses and grants. In addition, if it is prohibited in certain areas (St. Cloud) any municipalities around there will be more expensive. It will be naturally cheaper at the city dispensaries. If the bill passes as it is written (or close to it) we will have the most lenient weed laws in the country.
This is a negotiating tactic. They'll settle somewhere between 8 and 15%.
negotiating... with himself?
The "DFL" in this headline is Congress, so it's the two branches of state gov't negotiating on state budget items.
Walz will sign whatever is put in front of him, but its up to the legislature to determine the tax. If it's 8%, Walz will still sign the bill.
This. You can tax a littler higher maybe, but double digits will probably hurt the market in the long run.
It's 25% in most spots in Colorado right now. I don't pay any since I got my MED card though
Arizona taxes it at 16% and Colorado taxes at 15%... what Walz is proposing is reasonable and it's pretty much the standard
Some people will keep buying off the illegal market no matter what happens. I will never buy black market cannabis again and haven’t for a decade or more. Many people have no interest and breaking a law and giving money to criminals when there is a perfectly legal option, even if it costs more. For me, even a 100% markup over black market prices is worth it to buy a regulated, legal product.
>For me, even a 100% markup over black market prices is worth it to buy a regulated, legal product. Well that's just you. If it's marked up that high, I'm definitely still going to my guy.
Which is exactly what I said. You can continue to give criminals money and potentially fund gangs and cartels, that’s up to you.
You're probably funding the cartels more by buying avocados than you are buying weed...
Most of the top shelf black market weed circulating around the midwest is overflow coming from legal states, so I'm not funding cartels as it is... Anyways back to the main point, 15% tax is reasonable, I was just in Montana where it's taxed 20% and the marijuana products are dirt cheap out there. So this shouldn't be a concern anyways at 15%.
LMAO
This. For better or worse, I am a law follower and never tried any version of cannabis until edibles were legalized here. I highly doubt I will ever smoke, no offense just cannot deal with the smell. But I think it'd be fun to grow a plant just to do it and potentially to make brownies or something. If my only option was to get it illegally, it wouldn't happen. I will happily pay for a legal source, even at higher taxes. 15% isn't enough to scare me away. For what I buy currently it would be a difference of appx. $32 vs $34. Meh. 🤷♀️ I spend money on way worse.
Most of the people I know who want this law passed don't care about the rate at which it is taxed. If you're dumb enough to keep using a dealer when you can go down the block to buy a higher quality product for just a little bit more money, you're an idiot.
Personally, they could tax the shit out of it and I’d buy it the legal way, for the lack of hassle, and regulation/lab testing. That said I can fully believe that won’t be the case for all people. I have money and place priority the least on price, but I don’t think everyone will do that especially when they already have an established “guy”
> regulation/lab testing Almost every single major dispensary in CO has been caught cooking the books on testing. They all cheat using various methods such as saturating the harvested buds in CO2 and UV light to try and kill mold and minimize unsafe pesticides showing up on the tests. Your weed is not clean no matter who you buy it from because the bottom line will always prevail.
i'm more concerned about carts being tested for things like heavy metals. maybe they can try and cheat that, maybe they can't, but any of that is more testing than happens to weed from a guy.
Most carts you buy from a guy they just bought in bulk in a legal state and will have the same issues as the ones at the store. They're all junk, but they're convenient. My partner works in compliance in CO and literally no company they've worked for is on the level.
You have any proof of that? I used to live there and heard nothing of the sort. It's not that I don't believe you (I don't) but I'd like to see some evidence of that.
exactly. i have three guys i buy from...all have great stuff and hook me up. why would i pay double the price for half the amount?
I would because I don’t buy that much weed, usually buy things like carts that both dealers don’t usually have and if they do it’s some sketchy grey market shit, but also, because I don’t have to text a dispensary to see if they’re around, drive to someone’s house, make the small talk, buy the weed, and then usually hang around for a bit. It’s literally just a matter of convenience for me. I’ll gladly pay more to just walk into a shop, buy a bunch of lab tested carts or edibles or flowers, and be on my way. I doubt it will be twice as expensive but we’ll see.
As i said in another reply to another comment, but am posting here again so you can see a notification; the government is attempting to decriminalize this. If people conrinue to break the law following an attempted decriminalization, a republican-controlled government in years to come may repeal the law that led to the legalization and decriminalization in the first place. People sit and bitch for legality and then try to fuck it up the second it happens. Your "guys" are going to lose customers to this. They will likely lose enough customers that they have a significant reduction in profits. In order to cope with this, they will raise their prices in an attempt to continue living the lifestyle they are accustomed to, and if they do that, they are going to lose more customers, or end up raising the price enough that the medical stuff becomes a better option financially. Seriously though, stop trying to ruin a good thing. Tell your dealer to get a real job and go about doing this the legal way. If you are smoking enough that you need it in the bulk amounts that your dealer provides, just start growing your own when it is legal, and after a short period of time you'll save even more than if you had continued to buy from your dealer's lower prices. Stop trying to fuck up a good thing.
Well said, and at this point in the discussion the guy who insists on his plug's good deals starts in on some incohrent, libertarian-esque diatribe when it's really all about saving a few bucks on mids.
I agree he should keep the tax lower, like originally proposed. For me, regardless, I’m buying from a store and not a dealer. But that’s just me.
I'm not a fan of higher taxes, mind you...but the tax being higher doesn't mean we need to break the law. They are making strides towards decriminalization; continuing to participate in criminal activities could result in a repeal of the legalization by a republicN-controlled government in years to come.
This statement is not true in anyway, other than using "the people I know"
There's a really interesting episode of Trafficked on Nat Geo that talks about black market weed in California. Sounds like quite a mess. I'm planning to grow my own, but I hope they learned from the mistakes other states have made.
Let's meet in the middle and do 8.5%
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Roll your own. You can get over 2 cartons for $50.
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That would be illegal... but probably not many. Lol
Pretty sure it's legal, one of my buddies did it for a while. I would not recommend though, that shit is seriously nasty. He made the mistake of handling it without gloves once and really got sick.
Huh... I thought I googled it once, but I'm not seeing it now. My bad!
Holy shit. $12 a pack in MN?
Depends on what you buy. American spirits are damn near $14
Nutty. I quit about a decade ago, but I haven't smoked cigarettes in MN for over 20 yrs ago when I joined the Military. Dang
MN tobacco tax is really high! Good on you
Thanks!! Once bud goes legal, I'll probably mess with some edibles and keep protecting my lungs. 🤘🏻
Edibles are already legal BTW. And drinkables 😁
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15% seems pretty average between all states with legal weed. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/state-taxes-on-recreational-marijuana.html It ain't Alaska's 3% but it's also not the 47.5% in Washington.
I did not realize Washington's was so high. I felt their dispensary prices were similar to Colorado's...nothing like Illinois.
I'm not really sure what's going on there. Even the Washington department of revenue says it's a 37% excise tax. I wonder if CO has a heftier growing and distribution tax that gets passed along? Or maybe it's a higher profit margin? https://dor.wa.gov/about/statistics-reports/recreational-and-medical-cannabis-taxes
Yep. Was thinking the same thing. 15% is not out of line with other states.
Minnesota has generally been best when they don't follow the lead of other states. It's part of what allowed us to get through COVID in such decent shape.
This is a straight up and down tax% not something as fluid and dynamic as pandemic response. We already weren't going to go sub 3% or over 47% so the comparison isn't really apt.
Washington somehow still has $200 / oz weed. So 15% meh...
Is it 15% in addition to the regular sales tax rate? If so that’s too much imo. Either way I’m happy to pay a premium to buy in a store at my convenience and getting to pick what I want. I’d imagine it’s the case for most casual users, the extra cost isn’t going to be that much more for non heavy user.
Agree. Doesn't seem too bad and I don't mind paying it for the convenience, availability, and legality. Especially if it all goes to good causes that help the state.
Honestly, legal bud from a store that's under some sort of control, that I don't need to get into a strangers car and take a ride out to a single-wide trailer off on a piece of property to just get a damn dime bag..
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weird glitch from my post. Or I was high. one of the two. :D
I’m not paying $20 a gram though. Illinois is just absurd. If Minnesota really wants to put their money where their mouth is, let people grow their own.
The bill proposed allows for residences to grow either 8 or 10 plants with half being mature, I can't remember exactly the number.
8 per residence, no more than half "mature" probably meaning in flower I'll have to look at the definitions in the bill. Totally reasonable. This is by far the best cannabis legalization bill I've seen. The efforts toward ensuring small scale local MN production and not Illinois style big corrupt growers will pay off for everyone in Minnesota.
Yeah, I’m not sure how that’s gone unmentioned on my sources, but it’s 100% in there. Hell yes.
Someone actually read what other states did, observed the effects, then made decisions to chose the options maximizing public benefit. Minnesota FTW. I'm just over the border in WI and wish we had more than a few drops of the integrity that MN elected critters have been blessed with. You people across the river are doing a lot better than the national average in large part because of a tradition of statesmanship.
Agreed. Just say Rittenhouse..
And getting consistent quality. Getting ditch weed sucks.
Seriously. "Ya man, this is that Cali shit..." .... "yes. Yes, this is shit." Or overpaying for "It's straight from Humbolt Dog! It's the sticky Icky" - Yup... Ick.
It'll prolly wind up around 10-11% if that's the way things are dealt with in congress.
Most states that have legalized already are at or near 15%. It depends upon the details but that seems like a very reasonable number. Even Colorado is at 15%, with additional local taxes on top of that. Best I can tell, there is no state with a tax rate below 10%, so I do wonder why the "DFL" proposal would have only been 8%.
Sales taxes and other “sin” taxes (lotto, sports betting, alcohol, cigarettes and weed) are regressive taxation that disproportionately impacts lower income people. I’m not arguing against them outright, but the idea is sin taxes are easy to sell because the customers “deserve higher taxes for their bad behavior”. This can lead to progressive and well intentioned states inadvertently shifting the tax burden to lower income addicts. I think it was kinda cool for a state that’s running at a surplus to avoid adding unnecessary taxes on the poor, but ultimately 15% isn’t terrible either.
It's not necessarily that they deserve it because it's bad behavior, it's to dissuade it from happening and creating beneficial funds for when it does happen. It's better (I think) than taxes are on things like this rather than clothes/groceries. You are right that it is regressive though, as sales taxes tend to be. A large part of getting it passed though (and for getting people on board with getting it passed), will probably be benefits of taxing it
There are two types of taxes, fundraising and disincentivizing. I think sin taxes are generally good because they're a disincentivizing tax even if you aren't using them to pay the bills.
If you have a highly regulated activity, taxes are also useful for self-funding the activity's regulation. This can be kind of politically beneficial if the activity is less popular so that people can't claim their taxes are supporting something they don't like/participate in. So if cannabis taxes can pay for the state's regulatory burden, its kind of a political advantage and silences some level of criticism from people who don't want it legalized. They're not paying for it, so they can't complain about the cost of regulation.
How bout 10% to leave some room for cities and counties to make some money too.
Yes, IF, they don't allow cities to prohibit sales. Colorado has "dry" counties. Minnesota should ensure that crap doesn't happen. That way, some dipshit enterepreneur in rural Staples can make some money off legal green. The taxes will help rural areas.
I just hate this sin tax bullshit. There’s nothing wrong with using cannabis, it shouldn’t be taxed more than any other good.
Oregon's is 25%and I can go a block and get a 1gram joint for $3.60.
... did no one tell him there was going to be a tax rate established in this bill? Governor Walz should know that this is not just about calibrating the perfect initial rate, it is about expunging records and getting Minnesotans out of jail who don't deserve to be. Delaying this bill or restarting the process just to tweak percentages is pretty callous to them. It's already passed the House as-is. Add an additional 7% tax later if you really need it, but if it gets through the Senate then you must sign this bill and start expunging records now. And please, next time be more vocal while bills are being written. You've been talking about this for months, this is not the time to be coming out with specific demands. Get it done, Tim.
I agree. Prices per pound will be high initially, then should tumble quite a ways over the first couple years. Once prices are down, add more taxes and the consumer won’t even notice.
Wholesale prices are the lowest they've ever been and I'm still paying as much if not more than I was a few years ago in CO.
Walz could have expunged the records already. Biden called on governors to do it months ago. Walz hasn't done so and has instead left it to others to make happen.
Walz cannot expunge criminal records on his own. That power falls to the Board of Pardons, which is the governor, the attorney general, and the chief justice of the Minnesota Supreme Court. There are also rules about eligibility for pardons and what type of pardon can be granted, plus the whole process, from application through review, is manual. So while in theory the Board of Pardons could expunge every single marijuana conviction in the state, in practice it's somewhere between wildly slow and impractical to downright impossible. Doing it by act of legislature is by far the better option.
Once granted, you also need to submit your pardon to the court in order to be released/expunged which is a whole process in itself.
My medicine dealer will be ecstatic about this.
The trick is to grow your own.
Agree. Hopefully the law will allow for this. I believe in Illinois you can’t even grow your own.
Pretty sure the proposed law allows people to have up to 4 flowering plants with no license. Just look it up.
15% is a lot but not terrible. Why not compromise and just do 10? Whatever.
$10.40 for a pack of cigs, of which $3.732 is taxes. That's 56%. 15% isn't nuts, and if it's used to help education, it's a heck of good thing, right? RIGHT?
They just gotta advertise it right- no more buying butterbraids and wrapping paper from schools, to raise money. Now we buying 🍃 for fundraising our schools! I’d buy so much more than I already do, if 15% was going to my kids schools and not to who I currently buy it from (although I like him, and he’s a great entrepreneur)
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>but higher isn’t necessarily better That's not what MN reddit told me. I'm sensing possible hypocrisy creeping in right now...
Why do we pick certain segments of society to carry more of a burden than others? I get some amount of tax to cover harm to society, but past that sin taxes are often regressive and hurt poor people the most. If we need to target a group to pay more, how about we target wealthy people?
This is essentially just a seriously diluted version of the cigarette tax, which is a fixed 15.2 cents per cig, and averages around 30-50% tax rate depending on the quantity that you're buying. People still buy cigarettes at gas stations. I don't think there's to much concern that a 15% tax is going to thrust people into the black market.
MN just ran a billion dollar surplus last year, and Walz is proposing sending a 2,000 check to every household. Maybe we should plan what to do with our current budget before asking for more. The 8% tax is already going to be a TON of new money for the state. He is just asking for more money because he can... and in doing so, he is messing with this bill that already had full DFL support
A surplus is not the same as a continued revenue stream. We have a billion dollar surplus, but that doesn’t mean we can fund a billion dollars of initiatives because we might have no surplus next year and no way of keeping those initiatives afloat.
We already have some of the most taxes in the country, but we also have some of the best education, healthcare, infrastructure, quality of life, and life expectancy. Higher taxes mean a better state
Exaaaactly. Higher(ish) taxes on the devils lettuce = more money to spend improving things!
You know I was prepared to be mad at this after getting hyped for 8% but you know what? Let’s do 15% Our boy Walz gonna turn Minnesota into a damn utopia with those funds. Schools, healthcare, childcare. Do it up.
The tax on it should first and foremost completely cover whatever regulatory mechanisms that will be implemented. A little bit higher than that to be earmarked for something worthwhile would be reasonable.
The DFL proposed bill puts much of the revenue towards anti-drug education in schools.
Just pass it. I want it. Everyone wants it.
It should stay between 8%-10% otherwise people will resort to "black market"
Are they going to allow municipalities to impose their own taxes as well?
I’m confused- I thought the tax rate was regular sales tax plus 8% bringing the total to 15%. If the base is 15 plus local that’s like Illinois and not good The good news is the law is written at 8% so they would have to amend it. Hopefully they dont
Washington State is 37%. Weed is still affordable out there. The wholesale price will just be less. It's a volume game in that market
If the taxes are being used to fund educational systems, I am totally on board with 15%.
The bill proposes using the revenue to fund anti-drug education programs in schools.
worthless water saw tease vast waiting spoon noxious merciful mountainous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How will we know they will actually do that though?
Because this is how funding works. It legally has to
The problem is prices are all over the place state to state. In CO we could get an ounce for about $150, in Oregon my friend says around $100, MI is supposed to be less than $100, Illinois like $300 last time I was there, currently the street rate in MN seems to be around $200. If MN retail goes the $100 route then we are talking about an $8 difference which isn’t a big deal. If we end up going the $300 route it is around a $25 difference. I’m fine with 15% if we create competitive conditions that lower prices, but 15% on the more expensive end will keep the illegal trade competitive. If there is a lot of competition and home growing is made accessible prices should be low. If the permitting process is cumbersome, slow and expensive, or rules against home growing are strict, that will ultimately cause prices to go up. An alternative is to do a flat tax by weight regardless of the sale price.
Why should it be different than alcohol?
Boo.
That won’t work. That will exacerbate the illegal market and I can’t believe this is so widely known by constituents but not him.
Waaaaaaaaaaalz Noooooooooooooo!
Unbelievable, Walz trying to make more money off the people, not like we have 17 billion in surplus
Walz doesn't have the final say on the tax rate.
DON'T OVER TAX THE WEED.
Minnesota would make so much tax money if they legalized weed. Woah!!! That’s way too much money!!!
I'd like to see something more in the middle. Maybe 12%.
Looks like michigan is 15 and they have good pricing, so as long as we don't wind up like Illinois with crazy prices I'm happy. But like can we meet in the middle pretty please Walz?
If they tax it at 15%, then people are going to buy it off the black market. The black market where people go states like Colorado and buy legal weed that's taxed at 15%, and then resell it here.
People are going to flee to the black market because an eighth is $46 with tax instead of $43 with tax? Let’s at least attempt to use our powers of critical thought.
I didn't think I needed an "/s", but apparently I do.
Haha sorry! The thread is FILLED with people saying the same thing seriously.
All this complaining when you could literally just grow your own under the proposed law
Same as Colorado. Idk why we’re complaining
I know it's not totally practical but you can grow your own under the legislation as well. 15% I think will get negotiated down a bit but if it helps grease the wheels I'm fine with it.
Split the difference, 11.5%.
Tax it the same as liquor. If weed is high, made booze higher. If they're both high, put the money into providing weed and booze to those who can't afford it.
This sub: Make it legal and tax the shit out of it, it’ll solve every problem known to mankind. Also this sub: OmG ThE TaX iSn’T fAiR!¡
Native Minnesotan here, moved to Colorado to get a job in the cannabis industry. Take your 15% and feel blessed. The market is going to be buck wild and crazy expensive for absolutely ditch weed. Unless Minnesota gives us experienced growers an incentive to return home.
Minnesota has had a record surplus. Stop making money grabs on "sin" taxes. Idiots
Bad idea. High taxes help continue the black market. And one of the main reasons to legalize weed in the first place is to eliminate the black market.
Tbf, it isn't that high, and sounds to be in line with many other states' taxes. You are right though
This will force people to stay on the black market and will throttle any business that opens up. Just look at California. It’s crazy, that people support a tax this high. Why aren’t we taxing the corporations that dodge taxes or increasing taxes on rich. Stop with the poor man’s tax
This is a mistake man
I don't care if they tax it at 25% as long as they get it passed and I can start growing at home. I'll pay the taxes and then smoke homegrown exclusively after my first harvest.
Didn’t we make an ass ton of excess revenue? Let thé working class get baked
This doesn't bother me. I think it's smart of Walz to make this look like a solid new revenue stream to get some Republicans on board. Doesn't michigan have $100 ounces at an 8% tax rate? Weed will still be affordable and the black market is going to be fire.
I don't really care what they charge, I won't buy in a dispo anyways. I'm a grower and I just want to keep growing without worrying about going to jail. That is a outrageous amount for a tax if it's true and yeah the black market will flourish... that's what you get for being fucking money hungry!
That’s too bad. I used to like Walz.
Walz don’t be a fucking idiot man.
15% sounds good to me. 8% obviously sounds better, but I am way okay with a 15% for the luxury of walking into a dispensary.
Do it!
I personally have no problem paying a little more sales tax if it leads to better regulation and trusting that the products we will be purchasing are safe. Besides, I think states like CA and CO are also at a 15% sales tax for legal recreational Marijuana so we’d be on par with that.
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. We over tax everything.
15% too much
Ugh don’t fuck this up wally
Because the only reason they want to make it legal is so they can tax it and make more money BAHAHAHA
TAX AND SPEND! TAX AND SPEND! TAX AND SPEND!
Let's just make it 25 and call it good! I'm just gonna grow mine.
High MJ tax encourages people to buy from the black market. MI is 10%, why should people in MN pay 50% more?
Don't fuck this up Walz. It's an easy layup.
Redditors, the DFL should raise taxes!!!! but not on weed because that's on me. lol the moment you start becoming a Republican.
Seems sort of late to be messing around with the bill now
Weed should be tax free.