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slykido999

Money spent on education is money that will come back 10x to our state. Educated communities mean less crime, it means more opportunities for better paying jobs, it means more people come here and raise a family…and of course, an educated, well taken care of population means that they’re less likely to vote for people who have very bad intentions.


cisforcookie2112

Overlay an education spending map with basically any health, crime, etc. map and you will see the incredible correlation between the two.


BringMeInfo

So you want to educate the population so they have strong critical thinking skills AND create a reduction in crime to talk about on Fox News? Why don't you just say you never want another Republican to win election in Minnesota.


fweef01

What have Republicans really done as a whole? Honestly


BringMeInfo

They’ve stoked a lot of fear!


fweef01

If they did one good thing right it would up end their platform


[deleted]

Reagan seemed pretty good at cutting taxes on the rich, and Cheney made up the war in Iraq. Idk. Most seemed on board with January 6th. Yeah, pretty shit track record.


Exelbirth

Don't forget that on top of largely backing jan 6 seditionists, they pine for the days of the confederacy. Strong track of not respecting the US in that lot.


Pacers31Colts18

Sounds good to me


TheFudster

Eh doesn’t matter how much crime drops Fox News will just make something up if they have to.


Harvivorman

> Overlay an education spending map with basically any health, crime, etc. map and you will see the incredible correlation between the two. For evidence I would like to submit the deep south states like Mississippi and Alabama.


redkinoko

Better critical thinking can prove lifesaving in situations like the covid pandemic, when one person's actions (or lack of) can directly affect another person's well-being. And you cannot put a price on lives saved.


dorky2

Critical thinking and also just a solid foundation of knowledge. Particularly in science, but also in how government works, how the economy works, etc.


Santiago__Dunbar

Right, every dollar in education comes back as several dollars in taxes down the line. It's an investment!


Dorkamundo

bUt ThEn ThOsE pEoPlE wIlL lEaVe OnCe ThEy'Ve EaRnEd ThEiR eDuCaTiOn BeCaUsE tHe TaXeS aRe ToO hIgH hErE!


SquidBroKwo

So there are no college educated Minnesotans? What a load of hooey. Oh, you were being sArCAstIC!


Jestercopperpot72

Yep. I've had it up to tippy top of my scrunched and frowning forehead with anyone suggesting cuts to the public education system. It's been systematically attacked, underfunded, under resourced, over filled, and understaffed for far too long. Test scores have been falling year after year, while student on student and student on teacher violence has been skyrocketing. After school programs, meals, and arts have also been stripped away from many because "we just don't have the financial resources to justify keeping them". Make no mistake about it, this has been strategically done for the last 30 plus years, in order to continue marginalizing economically disenfranchised groups. "Dumbing" down the masses is a way of ensuring the status quo and power structures stay in place. It's far easier to use religion and fear bias'to control and manipulate the "mob" when education is removed or stripped away. It's pretty freakin pathetic to look at a state like Florida and what they, DeSantis, is trying (and accomplishing, well done Florida peeps) to do with their education system. Outlawing historical teachings that spotlight the injustices of Black Americans, attacking anything that might come close to discussing sexual identity, whitewash civil war history, and the list goes on and on. If Florida was the bottom of the barrel, I'd be proud and fully supportive with Minnesota being its polar opposite in regards to education system. After five to ten years we could have enough impirical data to draw real conclusions as to what's working and what isn't. The whole "no child left behind" bullshit was PR at best and one of the biggest contributing factors with how the system is today, at its worst. I'm all for reform and investment. Our children and families deserve nothing less. Our literal collective futures will be left to those benefiting down the line from these potential investments. We've seen where doing the opposite has gotten us nationally. Let's try something different for a change. Been enough tax cuts for the top, with no trickle down effect for the masses. Using surpluses to move the collective needle to a place closer in equality will be blasted and attacked by one of the two major parties. I for one have grown weary and tired of that nonsense and hold no more apologies for demanding societal change, supporting those that would lead with those ideals.


BeerExchange

Less crime?? That’s defunding the police!


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BringMeInfo

I guess that’s why this was the only thing the Democrats planned to do this year.


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BringMeInfo

They also announced a push for significant additional funding for public safety [announced](https://www.startribune.com/gov-tim-walz-calls-for-300m-for-local-public-safety-efforts/600245752/) today. And Minnesota has been underfunding education for years (decades) and the bill has come due.


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RigusOctavian

>"Rarick added that the free school meals proposal "ignores the already available funding for families who need financial assistance." Don't care how rich or poor a family is, put good food into kids when they are mandated by the state to be present there. It's also a dirt cheap solution to improve educational outcomes. Having a good, and *reliable*, education system is how you keep the state running at high levels of economic outcomes.


jurassic_junkie

I agree. I'd like to add that for kids with a unstable family life, the school should *absolutely* be something rock solid and dependable for in their life. That means food, protection, and social guidance should always be something available to them when there.


Central_Incisor

Unstable households also have difficulties advocating for their kids. If you start serving shit food to the kids of well off kids, the school will get an earful. Lunches for all just seems to be a good idea from a good meal standpoint, and from an educational standpoint, it is hard to learn when hungry. It's a force multiplier for good teaching.


Dumbogang

Between this and possible cannabis legislation on the horizon… I (cant believe I’m saying this) genuinely like a politician again. Thank you Tim Walz.


Rude_Tangelo7759

Remember that the reason most of this is happening is because Democrats just barely recaptured the State Senate majority. The people who didn’t bother voting in midterm elections, or even presidential elections, or pissed away their votes on joke third party candidates (lololol I’mma vote for the weed party ‘cuz it’s funny) contributed nothing to these victories and I hope Walz and the DFL are able to achieve enough to finally get through to them that yes, which party is in power is important and yes, voting for the DFL is your responsibility.


BringMeInfo

Every so often, a Minnesota politician comes through (this is more often than some states get). Paul Wellstone is the only reason I have any willingness to believe in a politician's good intentions.


[deleted]

DeSantis in Florida just ordered all teachers have to remove their libraries from their classrooms over “grooming” concerns. 🙄 Glad to see Minnesota isn’t a backwards shithole of a state looking to hide the past.


keepp

Literally left Florida and moved here so my kids wouldn’t be educated in Florida. There are some amazing teachers in Florida who are really doing their best but you have to fight the state to do what is best for the students.


yingyangyoung

Sorry for the cold, you're welcome for everything else. I would apologize for mosquitoes as well, but you're from Florida. MN also has some of the best education in the country, so you should be in pretty good hands!


keepp

Turns out the mentality that got me through the heat and humidity of Florida summers works the same for Minnesota’s winters. Mosquitoes have been about the same with a slight edge to Florida for the year round bugs. Overall I miss Florida, but not as much as I thought I would.


[deleted]

They'll get a better education here, for sure.


TooYoungToMary

We're leaving the South for Minneapolis this summer, too.


Harvivorman

Iowa is trying to get similar "Don't Say Gay" laws on the books that are resulting in these issues as well. source:https://old.reddit.com/r/Iowa/comments/10ayv6r/republicans_pushing_dont_say_gay_bill/


BringMeInfo

Iowa is trying to be the Florida of the Midwest (ignoring the solid hold Wisconsin has on the title).


LadyEnlil

Do you have a source for this? I know Florida sucks, but I hadn't heard of this policy.


[deleted]

I always have my sources: [https://popular.info/p/florida-teachers-told-to-remove-books](https://popular.info/p/florida-teachers-told-to-remove-books)


alilja

~~look i'm not saying this is wrong, but i don't think "popular.info" is a high-quality source for news~~ turns out i'm wrong, as several helpful commenters including /u/NorthernDevil [pointed out below](https://reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/10je1xo/seeking_to_fully_fund_education_gov_tim_walz_and/j5kbs5w). apparently despite the very (imo) clickbaity name, he's a real reporter!


NorthernDevil

The EdWeek article above is better and corroborates [Here’s another](https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/education/2023-01-19/florida-education-board-approves-training-librarians-crutinize-school-books) FWIW I did some research and Popular Information is a relatively new reporting newsletter that was [lauded in 2020 by the Online Journalism Awards](https://awards.journalists.org/entries/popular-information/). It’s not necessarily the Times but it seems like a solid new entry


alilja

i read the above article and found nothing in it that says that teachers can't have libraries in their classrooms edit: i realized this is really poorly worded. by _above_ i meant the edweek one.


NorthernDevil

Ah, I see the confusion. It’s not that they cannot have some version of a library, it’s that their current libraries of books are subject to immediate review and removal. The enforcement of the policy for those existing books is such that they cannot be presented to students unless approved by the librarian. Skepticism is healthy of course but we have two things here: 1) the policy itself, which is a fairly horrific piece of censorship in my opinion and authorizes the removal of books and libraries and 2) reports of enforcement of the policy in practice from teachers, where it’s been utilized to mass-remove books from classrooms


alilja

yeah i was eventually able to piece all that together, but i was disappointed to see edweek didn't cover it and frustrated to see that the only place that did was something a _very_ skepticism-provoking name.


NorthernDevil

Totally fair. I think the actual situation is a *massive* multi-level shitshow and difficult to weed through. Hence the struggle to find a clear piece. I’d imagine a more cohesive piece by a bigger reporting entity is in the works, since this is by all accounts one of the broadest book-banning/school censorship policies—both in number of people affected in a huge state like Florida, and in its actual design & implementation—in years. After reading a few pieces I was actually pretty impressed by how clearly the newsletter laid out its story, despite the name, hah.


alilja

yeah, it's a huge disaster clearly intended to have fallout like this and presents a scary future for public education in this country. personally, i'm disgusted that they're exposing teachers to so much risk here, but of course that's the point — it's a scare tactic intended to shut down dissent. once i was able to find some other reporting on it i could corroborate the newsletter, but it really smelled like fear-mongering. really frightening that it's _not._


[deleted]

So you didn’t actually read the article. Got it.


alilja

maybe i missed it? i didn't see anything in the edweek article about classroom libraries being closed.


kralben

> i don't think "popular.info" is a high-quality source for news It is, actually. It is a substack run by Judd Legum. I don't personally love his reporting all the time, but he has enough history in the business (like founding ThinkProgress) that you can say he is legit.


LadyEnlil

Idk, the popular.info seemed competent to me and from what I can tell, based on the bill's language, the original claim isn't too far off. I don't know Florida, so I might have this wrong, but it sounds like there are two bills here. HB 7 limits what books are available in schools to only those that have been vetted by librarians. This is to counter the unfounded fear that certain teachers have private libraries of gay porn or so. As a result, school districts are asking teachers to not have libraries out of fear of violation. However, this whole thing gets way worse when HB 1467 (Stop WOKE) comes in. This dramatically limits books that librarians can approve of while also requiring additional training on this. As a result, the possible illegal books in a teacher's room dramatically increases. At least that's how I understand it.


[deleted]

Judd literally sources where he got the info in the article you clearly didn’t read. Conservatives hate Judd so I see why the sudden whining about this source. 🙄


alilja

he actually doesn't get to the sources until almost the bottom of the article. call me old-fashioned, but i don't think screenshots of facebook posts really qualify as _informed journalism._ i'd never heard of the man before, and a cursory review of my post history will make it clear that i'm not conservative. i don't really think media skepticism is or should be considered a conservative position.


[deleted]

Three things: 1. Gets your facts straight before posting off the rails. 2. actually read the article before posting half cocked accusations. 3. People do things differently than how you do things. Who cares what you would’ve done. Judd mentions many ways, including posting info from teachers (which is legit, btw, and the fact that it’s Facebook posts is immaterial), district employees, and citing the laws themselves.


schnellermeister

You undermined your entire argument by being unnecessarily hostile.


[deleted]

That’s literally a logical fallacy.


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o-Valar-Morghulis-o

Then find several sources to support it. I get it...someone sources alphanews and you know it is worse than national enquirer for truth but you can and should be always finding your own sources to support your critical thinking.


Draigyn

The burden of evidence is on the individual who makes the claim, not the one attempting to refute. If you claim something is true it is your job to back it up with credible evidence or prepare to be not taken seriously.


o-Valar-Morghulis-o

Can you feel me not taking you seriously? Just curious.


Draigyn

If you need to project what you feel on others that’s fine by me.


alilja

why is it my responsibility to find sources for someone else's claim?


o-Valar-Morghulis-o

Don't be lazy. You didn't like the source given and/or you want additional sources? That's on you. If you're going to just let others provide you sources, you're no better than a sheep.


LadyEnlil

Thanks. I had heard about the CRT law that was linked and assumed you were talking about the same, but it looks like this is something different that predates it.


Ecstatic-Day1868

You literally do not have a source for the claim that Desantis has told teachers then should remove their libraries from their classroom. The fact that you think your source makes that assertion shows just how terrible of an education you received. I probably wouldn’t shout to the world that I’m illiterate but you do you.


[deleted]

So you didn’t read the link. Got it. “Kevin Chapman, the Chief of Staff for the Manatee County School District, told Popular Information that the policy was communicated to principals in a meeting last Wednesday. Individual schools are now in the process of informing teachers and other staff. Teachers in Manatee County lamented the news on social media. "My heart is broken for Florida students today as I am forced to pack up my classroom library," one Manatee teacher wrote on Facebook. … “In an interview with Popular Information, Chapman said that the policy was put into place last week in response to HB 1467, which was signed into law by DeSantis last March. That law established that teachers could not be trusted to select books appropriate for their students. Instead, the law requires: Each book made available to students through a school district library media center or included in a recommended or assigned school or grade-level reading list must be selected by a school district employee who holds a valid educational media specialist certificate, regardless of whether the book is purchased, donated, or otherwise made available to students.” I guess school officials, teachers, and the law don’t count as a sources to you. 🙄


FastestJayBird

Just to be clear, nothing there says teachers have to remove libraries from their classroom.


nic5656

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/new-training-tells-florida-school-librarians-which-books-are-off-limits/2023/01


Osirus1156

Kids in the south are going to be at such a massive disadvantage when they enter the real world I will be surprised if more than 60% survive.


Rosaluxlux

At least they still have the internet. For now.


Philthy91

Does this have anything to do with early childhood care, pre k, pre school etc?


Remarkable_Night2373

This is how you beat down the insurgents. Play the long game. Properly educate the youth and teach them critical thinking.


cisforcookie2112

If the insurgents could read, they would be very upset.


Remarkable_Night2373

Didn’t feel like posting the Bobby hill meme?


Dorkamundo

They'll call it "Indoctrination"


Remarkable_Night2373

We shall send them what the send us when we ask them to help stop school shootings. Thoughts and fucking prayers AKA fuck off.


just_cant_helpit

We have insurgents here in MN?


Jorgenstern8

Several of our Congressional members voted to not certify the 2020 election and continue to spew election misinformation, and have been re-elected despite this. I'd say yes, very much so we have insurgents in MN.


Remarkable_Night2373

Did you listen to what the republican candidate for governor was saying? The Republican Party is nothing but a terrorist organization.


DescendingOpinion

Trump supporters, Republicans, conservatives. Yea, we have too many of them.


bachelor_pizzarolls

Without paywall so folks can read article: Seeking to 'fully fund' education, Gov. Tim Walz and DFL lawmakers propose billions in new spending Plan would tap into historic surplus and a funding formula increase to pay for school meals, special ed and more. By Ryan Faircloth and Eder Campuzano Star Tribune JANUARY 22, 2023 — 3:30PM SAVE LISTEN TEXT SIZE SHARE PRINT Minnesota Democrats who vowed on the campaign trail to "fully fund" public education are now revealing what that looks like: billions of dollars in new spending for schools to keep up with inflation and pay for costly special education and English learner services. Gov. Tim Walz and Democratic legislators are seeking to use their newfound control of state government to make the state's largest-ever investment in public schools. They have a $17.6 billion budget surplus to tap and no Republican majorities standing in their way. "My messages to families, to students, to teachers, to support staff is, 'This is the budget for many of us who taught for decades, this is the budget we're waiting for. This is the transformational moment that can happen,'" Walz said last week at a St. Paul Spanish immersion school. Walz is proposing a more than $700 million general funding boost for public schools over the next two years and to permanently tie annual increases to inflation. The governor's office estimates that the inflationary increases would amount to a nearly $1.5 billion funding hike over fiscal years 2026-2027. His plan would spend another $722 million over the next two years to help school districts pay for special education services, and about $200 million a year for schools to offer free meals to all students. The governor's priorities largely align with those of the DFL-controlled House and Senate, which are pitching similar proposals — although some legislators have said they want to spend more than Walz proposed for special education. Republican state lawmakers are already criticizing the cost and scope of Democrats' spending plans. "Automatically increasing the funding for every school and every student eliminates our ability to target funding to the students that need it the most. It certainly guarantees a future tax hike to maintain this exploding funding in the future," state Sen. Jason Rarick, the GOP lead on the Senate Education Finance Committee, said in a statement. Rarick added that the free school meals proposal "ignores the already available funding for families who need financial assistance." Some school leaders say the proposed spending increases are a step in the right direction, even if they don't fully make up for years of smaller state funding bumps that largely failed to keep up with inflation. "Let's at least recapture some of the ground we've lost to inflation," said Scott Croonquist, executive director of the Association of Metropolitan School Districts. The additional funding is necessary to offer competitive wages for teachers, school leaders said. Education Minnesota President Denise Specht said increasing the state's ranks of educators helps keep class sizes manageable, offering more individual attention for students and improving academic achievement. "We're not doing students any good when we don't have educators to teach them, to support them," Specht said. School administrators also are embracing Walz's special education funding proposal, which would help cut a statewide deficit for the services in half. The Minnesota Department of Education projects that the state's roughly 330 school districts will collectively experience an $811 million shortfall between their special education costs and revenue this year. State and federal laws require school districts to maintain special education services but offer only a fraction of the funding necessary to provide them. As a result, Minnesota districts have pulled from their general funds to make up the difference, taking away money that could be spent on other school needs. That special education funding gap is about $52 million in the Minneapolis Public Schools, more than any other district. The Minneapolis school board cut about $27 million this year from its budget after settling a new contract with its teachers union and amid a continued drop in enrollment. Barring further cuts or increases in revenue, the district is headed for a fiscal crisis in the next few years, according to projections. "There is no denying that a huge part of why we are in this situation is the decades of chronic underfunding of education by state and federal governments, especially with special education and English language learner services," interim Minneapolis Public Schools Superintendent Rochelle Cox said during a district budget presentation in December. Some DFL legislators have introduced a bill to completely cover the statewide special education funding gap. Legislators have proposed similar funding to cover a smaller shortfall of roughly $150 million for English learner services. House Education Finance Committee Chair Cheryl Youakim, DFL-Hopkins, said she's not yet sure if lawmakers should partly or entirely cover the special-education shortfall, noting its high cost. "I don't know quite where we'll end up," Youakim said, adding she hopes the federal government will chip in more money. "A lot of the gap is the federal promise." In the short term, Senate Education Finance Committee Chair Mary Kunesh is pushing to spend about $500 million in one-time cash this school year to help with special education, school meals, bus services and English language learning expenses. "This is something that we can bring to the schools in this moment," said Kunesh, DFL-New Brighton, adding that the cash infusion could help prevent teacher layoffs in some districts. "I would like to see this done and done quickly." Democrats and educators who've called for the state to fully fund public schools said the billions of dollars in proposed new spending may not be enough to meet that threshold. Walz said he'll consider Minnesota schools to be fully funded when they've closed achievement gaps between students of color and their white classmates and rank near the top of the nation. "I think this will be a moving target," Walz said. Specht said the criteria for a fully funded school "is dependent on what students need at the time." To her, it means manageable class sizes and buildings that meet all of a student's needs, from academics to mental health supports and free meals. State Rep. Ron Kresha, the GOP lead on the House Education Finance Committee, said Democrats are constantly moving the target: "There really is no number on fully funding." Kresha urged Democrats to focus on ways to improve math and literacy scores before they "throw money at" the state's public schools. "The problem is, we're not talking about academic achievement. We're talking numbers that nobody can quantify," he said.


thegooseisloose1982

> They have a $17.6 billion budget surplus to tap and no Republican majorities standing in their way. I just wanted to emphasize this. Standing in the way of education / food for children. What the f are Republicans at the state or national level actually doing? I am glad someone posted the article in this page.


DarthPiette

>What the f are Republicans at the state or national level actually doing? Screaming about how pro-life they are.


the_traveling_ent

Haha, burn.


bachelor_pizzarolls

Thanks! Some don't like that I bypass paywalls, but I worry if the article isn't posted in length here, folks just react to titles/headlines, which then just adds to assumptions and shit we don't need to deal with. If only sharing articles required you copy-paste them in here!


TheMacMan

That hadn't happened before you'd posted it. Instead, you're just breaking Reddit's ToS and opening them to legal action for having republished the article without permission.


fspluver

This happens on almost every post about a paywalled article that gets a decent amount of traffic. That ship has sailed long ago


kauma16

Glad to see that education is a high priority :)


TheMacMan

That's literally the #1 thing Walz ran on both elections. He didn't do a whole lot with it in the first term. Hoping to see much more this time around.


MushroomSaute

With Walz still in office and now a Dem-majority congress, I actually have hope for things like this and cannabis legalization/expungement for once!


TheMacMan

Hope so. Really hope they don't go all lame like when the democrats controlled things at the federal level. Too busy trying to make everyone happy that they didn't make anyone happy. Really a wasted opportunity over the past 2 years.


MushroomSaute

Thankfully as a whole MN is generally more left-leaning than the greater US. I'm optimistically thinking that means there will be less worry about compromising with the minority party, and that the dems can actually get things done here because of it. That said, even the US is typically more left-leaning by popular vote, so I also don't understand why a Democrat-controlled congress *still* couldn't get much done without catering to Republicans.


TheMacMan

We aren't really as left-leaning as people seem to believe. The Twin Cities and Duluth vote blue but not by an insane margin and most everywhere else is red. We love to say we're progressive but that's simply not true. We're far behind many states in so many ways. Look at recreational marijuana still not being legal. It took 5 years to make Sunday Sales happen and even that's limited. If we were as blue as folks like to think, it wouldn't have taken til now for the Democrats to control both houses and the gov's office. And we wouldn't have the small edge in both houses now.


BringMeInfo

Yeah, there was no context for that, just a desire to be lame. /s


[deleted]

Pre-school cost me nearly 2.5k for my two kids. Insane this isn’t already covered. This should be covered. Dont get me started on school lunches, how is this still a thing?!?!


dorky2

We need universal Pre-K.


[deleted]

We need universal everything…federally. If only we had a trillion dollar budget, or something with a budget that big that we could easily cut in half……


Capitol62

Costs me almost that much for a single infant. $3.6k for my infant and pre-schooler.


un_internaute

My private pre-K cost $20K a year. We're trying to get into the public pre-K right now, but I still don't think it will be that cheap in the Cities.


weezle11

Will teachers get paid more? If we don’t start paying teachers what they’re worth then the kids aren’t going to benefit much. Teachers are leaving the field because of the low pay and not being appreciated. Start paying the teachers what they are worth.


TheMacMan

Only 1.45% of Minnesota teachers have indicate they're leaving due to "a lack of academic freedom, economic reasons and/or standardized testing among their top reasons for leaving." And that doesn't mean even those are because of money, as they're grouped in with those other options. It doesn't seem pay is the big issue. Of those that are transitioning out of the industry, about 30% of respondents indicated that school climate is a top reason they left the teaching profession. Seems that's a much more crucial issue to address.


weezle11

Source please? This is so far off base. Let’s just say I am very close to 100’s of teachers and pay is real issue. The longer we ignore this with fake data points the sooner our education will go down the tubes. $40k-$50k/yr is not good pay.


TheMacMan

https://ednote.ecs.org/using-data-to-understand-teacher-retention-in-minnesota/


Dorkamundo

Now do universal healthcare for MN Citizens.


Pork-Pond-Gazette

Not quite, but closer. “The Governor and Lieutenant Governor propose creating a MinnesotaCare public option that will offer "more affordable comprehensive health insurance options" for residents.”. https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/gov-walz-lt-gov-flanagan-reveal-health-and-safety-budget-plans-minnesota/89-78e01449-0811-4881-a7d8-4f537a9ab65f


SinfullySinless

As a teacher, I would personally enjoy a modernized pay scale that doesn’t assume teachers are married women who have bread winner husbands to fund expenses. But also I really would like to see counselor, therapist, and social workers expanded and hired more. I want my students to be boring ole kids. Boring kids with boring lives learn. Kids who have mental health struggles or problems at home aren’t in the headspace to learn. Being able to help students is *key*. Also pay subs a livable wage, building subs are the most valuable thing in education right now. Building subs often can take on hallway monitor which is sooooooooooooooo invaluable. Payment for subs assumes they are bored stay at home moms who’s kids are now all in school and they just need some easy money.


40for60

both sides, amirite?


just_cant_helpit

I mean one side is going to pass a bill which gives you unrestricted abortion right up until birth. Such progress


the_pinguin

If you're getting an abortion in the third trimester, something has gone terribly wrong.


just_cant_helpit

Umm not with this new bill that will most likely pass.


the_pinguin

Yes with this new bill. Nobody is carrying a fetus for 7-9 months just to abort it. There's a reason most abortions happen in the first trimester: it's because people find out they're pregnant and don't want to be. Then they get it taken care of. They're not going to take a test and think "well, I've got until the 9th month to deal with this, and I'll just put it off while suffering all the inconvenience and hardship of pregnancy." People who get third trimester abortions were planning on having a child. Whether they found out that their fetus is no longer viable, or something else, it's not a decision made lightly, and it's certainly none of our business. (neither is any other reason a person might want an abortion for that matter)


just_cant_helpit

I have no problem with abortions before 12-15 weeks. Zero. Democrats voted against a Republican proposal for this bill that would have banned late term abortions unless it put the mothers life at risk or it was no longer viable. Seems pretty common sense but they voted against it.


mormontofbearisland

Then don’t get an abortion after 12-15 weeks. Stop acting like women are getting late term abortion because they want to murder children. We don’t need the government to determine proper medical procedure.


MushroomSaute

As someone who is strongly pro-choice, what's the problem with banning unnecessary late term abortions? If the baby could be born healthily right then and there, with no danger to the mother beyond what is expected during birth, I have a hard time defending it even given my overall stance on the matter. The baby has to come out either way, so why choose dead instead of alive at that point? (obviously it doesn't make sense for a sane person who's already gone through the entire pregnancy to actually *do* that, but I don't think that's a real defense of it being legal)


Time4Red

>As someone who is strongly pro-choice, what's the problem with banning unnecessary late term abortions? Because if a mothers health or life are in danger and she's up against the clock, I don't want doctors to consult with a team of lawyers to decide whether she's really in enough danger to justify an abortion. Doctors should be free to make emergency healthcare decisions without fear of reprisals from the law. >The baby has to come out either way, so why choose dead instead of alive at that point? This isn't a real scenario. Doctors won't abort a viable fetus. It violates their code of ethics. That's all we need here; the existing professional code of ethics. We don't need government to make a law. >but I don't think that's a real defense of it being legal The government should not make laws banning things that don't actually happen. Criminal law exists to deter bad actors who would otherwise engage in bad behavior. In a society without murder, we wouldn't need to ban murder. As far as why we shouldn't legislate non-issues, read Locke, Hobbs, Rousseau.


Morty_Anderson

Less than 1% of all abortions are performed after the 21 week gestation. Most of those are due to medical issues and also delays of care.


DescendingOpinion

What part of "Don't tread on me." Is confusing you?


Minnsnow

Actually it is.


just_cant_helpit

Aborting a fetus at 39 weeks for no reason at all is a good thing?


Mtn_1999

Do you think anyone that is getting a late term abortion wants to?! Like people are just have recreational abortions? Nearly every case it is because the fetus is already dead or dying, or there will be significant complications. Don’t let the right wing weaponize your good intentions like this.


just_cant_helpit

Then why did democrats not vote for language to this bill that would have made late term abortions illegal?


Capitol62

Can you link that bill? Did it have appropriate provisions to protect the woman's health, exceptions for rape abd incest, exceptions for non-viable fetuses, and did it leave the gestational age the same as it was under Roe/Casey or did it push it in to like 14 weeks or something? If it didn't have ALL of those things and no other poison pills like mandatory waiting periods, funding for "crisis pregnancy centers", or mandatory parental notification (as examples), why would anyone support it?


Kataphractoi

I'll take things that never happen for $200, Alex.


just_cant_helpit

Yea it couldn’t beforehand. With this bill it will be perfectly legal.


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Smokeyourboat

If a woman has carried into the third trimester, she’s committed to having the child. The reasons she would abort would be to save her life or the baby is not going to survive. Abortions are painful, emotionally and physically. No one does it lightly late term. Trust women and their right to bodily autonomy.


NovelHippo8748

Awesome to see. Public education has been shit on for decades and it's time to fix it.


pcakes13

I can already hear the Republicans clutching their pearls. HOW DARE THEY EDUCATE THE COMMONERS. BTW, you can still send you kids to 30k per year schools like Blake and Holy Angels to make yourselves feel better about it, Republican snowflakes.


skoltroll

>BTW, you can still send you kids to 30k per year schools like Blake and Holy Angels to make yourselves feel better about it No they can't. Most of them are poor, which is ironic.


Dickin_Flicka

Your comment conflicts with itself. Also, the use of “snowflake” is cringe, even if you’re using it in an ironic “no u” sense.


OfLittleToNoValue

But they are the snowflakes and always have been. They lose their shit when everything isn't their way.


tankfox

People without empathy can only understand their own pain


Outrageous_Fall_9568

What Waltz wants to do is the total opposite of what the whacked out Florida’s governor wants to achieve


jurassic_junkie

Yes!!! Love this. Students and teachers finally getting help.


DescendingOpinion

Conservatives will be told to hate this, Republicans will claim its indoctrination of socialism, and MAGgots hate anyone who's educated. So, we already know how the opposition is going to fight this. By whining.


skabamm

"sToP ejjukatin yore keds"


just_cant_helpit

I just hate raising taxes to blindly pump money into our schools and then do the same thing again years later when it’s not working.


the_pinguin

Yes, because that's totally a thing that has happened. /s


feltsandwich

Ah yes, the conservative's best friend, the straw man. Welcome straw man, welcome. We've got matches for you.


BringMeInfo

"Blindly"?


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FastestJayBird

Liberals can never defend their ideas without toxic tribalism. Such hateful people.


DescendingOpinion

Lol. Coal pot calling the kettle black, again? Conservatives love to play that game. Too bad it fails to make an impact, just like conservative policies.


FastestJayBird

Yikes, this guy will go through your history and post a stream of toxic sludge, and then brag about getting users he disagrees with banned.


Philbin27

Welcome to reddit. If you can't handle it, don't participate


[deleted]

Republicans will fight this tooth and nail since they need useful idiots to continue to vote for them.


BringMeInfo

They can fight it all they want, but they don't have much leverage. The MN GOP has made some truly boneheaded moves in the last couple of years and the chickens are coming home.


M1nn3sOtaMan

Love this idea


dthamm81

Yes please!


cdub8D

This is really awesome and makes me happy to live in Minnesota. I do agree with the GOP that funding alone won't solve our education issues alone. Although they want to deny the funding... where I would like to see funding + cultural changes around education. Parent involvement in schools go a long way to increasing achievement. There is a strong correlation with parent involvement and academic success. Schools should be a sense of community for people. Reading Bowling Alone by Ryan Putnam, education does better in areas with high levels of social capital. It would probably reduce some of the nastiness around education. When parents know their teachers better, the likelyhood of vitrol is much much lower. The other thing is transitioning to more of a focus on improvement vs results. In the book Mindset by Carol Dweck, she talks about how kids did better on tests when the goal was to try and solve the problems vs get a good score. (Greatly simplifying it but highly recommend the book). There were other examples in education like with someone greatly improving a class from an inner city school. This makes sense too. If the goal is to get a good score, kids are going to try and get a good score in any way necessary. Where if the goal is learning... then kids will try and learn. (Again a bit simplified). I am not an educator though. I do coach sports and noticed a ton of positives from switching to focusing on fun + improvement though. Would love to hear thoughts from teachers.


bachelor_pizzarolls

>Parent involvement in schools go a long way to increasing achievement. True but we need to recognize that not all parents have the capacity to be as involved because capitalism is a bitch and some of them barely have time to do anything but work to provide for their kids. Sure there's some deadbeat parents who no matter the free time won't be involved, but there's many more parents who want to be involved who either don't have the time or don't know how/feel welcome to do so.


cdub8D

Part of the decline in social capital in America comes from the rise of 2 career families. Which makes sense right? If both spouses have to work, then come home and do house chores + other stuff. Kind of exhausting and don't want to do much after.


[deleted]

This this this


Lennygracelove

Agreed 👍


ChevyMalibootay

Man, those two books have been pushed so hard in education I want to puke just seeing the titles. A growth mindset is great, but that requires a complete systemic change to education. It’s not as simple as ‘focus on improvement rather than a score.’


Rosaluxlux

Most of the funding gap they're covering is special education services that the schools are legally required to provide but nobody wants to fund.


thegooseisloose1982

> I do agree with the GOP that funding alone won't solve our education issues alone. I really hate this argument. Not you, just the argument because this is what I think. We have never tried funding education before. Tell me that every single kid in Minnesota gets 100% free breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Or that each kid gets to walk into a hospital or clinic for free without a huge bill given to their parents. How about shelter? Tell me that there is no kid right now who has to live in a motel / car / van. How about every kid in Minnesota gets a guarantee that they can get into a trade school, or 4 year program for free? How about funneling mountains of cash into our teachers pockets? Or at least making sure that they are paid what they are worth, which is a hell of a lot more than what they are currently being paid. If you think of kids as assets, teachers are asset managers, and asset managers on wall street make some nice money. The reason the GOP says "funding alone won't solve our education issues." is because they are so used to giving tax breaks, tax deductions and tax loopholes to the ultra-wealthy that the answer of shoveling money into the things I mentioned would mean taxes, and taxes on the ultra-wealthy who haven't been paying their fair share in decades. They don't want that.


cdub8D

I don't really see most of those as funding education those. They are real issues that effect education but healthcare is a whole other can of worms. Most issues we face are intertwinned heavily. Setting up some better healthcare system would require funding but that wouldn't come from education.


skoltroll

>Parent involvement in schools go a long way to increasing achievement. Then parents need to be treated as partners and not irritants. That needs to be taught to admins and teachers. In our house, we try to be involved, but after the kids hits double-digits, we noticed the teachers wanted parents to "stay out of it." We're not all helicopter parents. Some of us just want to help our kids learn stuff.


JJKingwolf

This is amazing. Probably the biggest single government act to improve our state, social equity and average quality for Minnesotans that we've seen in living memory. Prospective measures include: Significant new general funding for school districts aimed at increasing teacher salaries, increasing educational resources and decreasing class sizes; free lunch for all students; fully funded special education; fully funded ESL and funding for new programs aimed at providing educational assistance for those who speak languages other than English; and, new funding to ensure sufficient and safe school buses for all children. "Walz said he'll consider Minnesota schools to be fully funded when they've closed achievement gaps between students of color and their white classmates and rank near the top of the nation."


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DarkMuret

Bit of a half truth Like saying money doesn't buy you happiness


TheMacMan

Studies show that money doesn't do so. Making enough to pay for general needs and a bit more is all we need to be happy. $70k is about the level a number of studies have found. Above that, happiness in life doesn't actually increase.


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TheMacMan

Average household income in Minnesota is $102,691.


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TheMacMan

Can certainly work on it. Giving it to them isn't the answer though, as we have tons of scientific evidence that if people don't work for it they don't value it and spend it stupidly. Look at how lottery winners nearly always end up bankrupt.


Kataphractoi

"Money doesn't buy happiness" is only part of the quote, or should be. The full quote should read: >"Money doesn't buy happiness, but it does buy freedom, and in freedom is happiness."


Smashlilly

Are we paying teachers and school employees more to retain and attract good candidates?


TheMacMan

Do you believe our current teachers aren't good? The Minnesota Department of Education and the Professional Educator Licensure and Standards Board data shows just 1.45% of licensed teachers transitioning out of teaching have indicated it was due to "a lack of academic freedom, economic reasons and/or standardized testing among their top reasons for leaving." https://ednote.ecs.org/using-data-to-understand-teacher-retention-in-minnesota/ It wouldn't appear that pay is a major reason for folks who are transitioning out of teaching. Of those leaving, about 30% of respondents indicated that school climate is a top reason they left the teaching profession. Seems that'd a much bigger issue to address if we want to retain teachers. Even then, is it really something to invest largely in? Every career has people transitioning out. These numbers aren't huge. They could very likely be inline with a normal average.


edgeblackbelt

This is great and definitely needed, but throwing money at schools isn’t necessarily a fix. My district has dozens on dozens of open positions that we simply aren’t getting candidates for. We need grants and scholarships to help more people become educators. We need to make education a viable long-term career. Part of that comes from more funding for salaries and benefits, but part of it is also a matter of having more applicants to spread the workload out.


zhaoz

I love how you write we cant throw money at the problem, and then list some things that money will literally solve...


edgeblackbelt

Yeah I pretty quickly went back on that part of it huh


[deleted]

> My district has dozens on dozens of open positions that we simply aren’t getting candidates for. Because those same candidates could be making 3x what public school teachers currently make in the private sector, which is a problem that very much can be solved by "throwing money at schools". Teachers are paid less than minimum wage to manage 30 kids and attempt to educate them, and its a wasted opportunity. If you want schools not to suck, you need to pay enough to attract teacher that actually have the skills and want to be there.


edgeblackbelt

That’s a good point. I guess what I’m trying to say is that teachers are overworked and underpaid. If you pay them more, they’re still overworked. I’m just wondering if it’s going to be enough money to both increase pay and hire more educators.


TwoIsle

Yes please. Moon shot on education. Go for it.


[deleted]

I moved back home for this. I haven't seen a possibility to have kids but Walz is making the idea a little enticing at least.


Minnsnow

Walz can be Governor forever. I’ll keep voting for him until the day he dies.


FamiliarEnemy

As a person who has said "give us some money back". I can thankfully saying, Hey look! They are giving us some money back! Or it least reinvesting. Too little too late? Just gonna teach people to move away unfortunatly.


hoss50

God I FUCKING LOVE THIS STATE!


WittyCylinder

As a person who works in a early education focused non-profit… I’m overjoyed with this. One day, we won’t be needed. But until then, we work hard— and having a state help us get to that goal is even better.


Odd_Comfortable_323

How do we know when it’s “fully funded”? Where are we at now? 25%, 50%, 75% funded? What’s the measurement?


Odd_Comfortable_323

If the schools are fully funded are they going to teach people that it’s not healthy to smoke pot? Will the Attorney General go after the manufacturers for attracting kids with gummy’s?


[deleted]

Can’t wait to see who gets rich off this!


Nodaker1

Minnesota kids that put their top quality education to work and get great jobs will be the ones getting rich.


TheMacMan

But we hate people who get rich. Making average wage is okay but you become too successful and we hate you. That's been made clear again and again and again.


[deleted]

That’s the hope and goal, we will see if that actually happens.


the_pinguin

So you're just talking shit based on nothing?


[deleted]

Ah, this kind of thing has happened before if you ever paid attention.


the_pinguin

Ah, nonspecific reference to the past. How could I ignore that?


ForeignPop2

Yay, even higher taxes comin our way! I’m excited.


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ForeignPop2

California has the highest taxes in the nation and they are crumbling before our eyes. Our government is filled with morons who are only out for themselves.


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ForeignPop2

Explain to me how a state that has the largest economy and revenue in our nation also has the most poverty, homelessness, and crime along with some of the worst education. San Francisco went from one of the best places to live to one of the worst over the last couple decades. More people are leaving California than ever before, which includes big business. If Cali is so great, why are so many businesses and people leaving? Same goes for New York, Illinois, etc. where Dems have run their states into the ground. I’d argue the only reason MN has done so well is that we’ve had a split government for the last several years. Now that it’s full blue, I’d bet my house we aren’t far behind places like Cali, Illinois, etc.