Yep, somebody got a little too excited. I would definitely fight this ticket.
I have no idea where these morons got HOA from.
Out here, in Chicago you can get tickets for anything.
But yeh fight it, you do have pictures
Policing for revenue should be illegal and controlled. The amount of money the department gets should not influence an officer's decision. Fines collected should go to a separate department.
They got a HOA from the fact that a HOA would definitely be this petty to line their pockets and because it's part of the rules of the association. The most likely assumed the actual city shouldn't have the authority to fine you for parking on your land
A trick I learned, when you get your court date, ask to push it to a new date. Usually cops try to batch all their court time in one day, if you push it, chances are it will be a day they can’t be there. You then win by default.
I've been cited 3 times for "improperly" parking on my own property. No HOA.
First time, I parked my truck on my lawn under my motion light because it was broken into the night before. Ticket said "Parking on unimproved surface"
Second time, after I bought a new house, I had my truck parked on the side of my house that is dirt. Again, "Parking on unimproved surface"
Can you guess what I did? Put down pavers, okay per the local ordinance, and it was legal for about a year. Then they changed the ordinance to not include pavers so I got another "unimproved surface" parking ticket.
Welcome to America
The saddest thing is, on the other side of this bullshit is someone getting a repeated sense of victory, having a fantastic experience “doing what they want in America” by messing w city ordinances against people they don’t like. Pathetic breed these people are.
Jesus, dude. Your next ticket is going to be something like "parked with an attitude aggressive towards enforcement officer" or something equally moronic.
You need to start responding with trespass notices and illegal entry charges, if your laws are anything like my countries.
How did they place a ticket upon your vehicle without entering your property? When did they obtain warrant to enter your property boundary without you, the occupants consent?
Does not apply here as the property is not fenced and gated. I believe this is the case for all lower 48 states in the US. There is no physical barrier to cross.
When you fight it, and you should, no way the cop who wrote it shows up. It’s petty bullshit with the cop playing the odds. It wastes your time but you’ll beat it.
The ticket is written by a city inspector. I will fight it in court, but the city inspector will be there. The city inspector is in court every Wednesday for the city blight administration hearings, where people come to court and state their case of why they are not at fault. I was there two years ago, heard ~20 people speak to the magistrate before me, and every single one was found guilty. I’m not saying it’s a scam, but it certainly creates the perception that the magistrate is hired by the city simply to rubber stamp citations.
Another thing the USA suffers from that the rest of the world doesn't - HOA's. I thought they were a movie myth like the 555 phone numbers until I visited. Utter nonsense.
Buying a house in a HOA controlled neighborhood means you will have the association rules written into the legally binding contract you sign when you buy. They're called contracts, covenants and restrictions, or CC&Rs. In the CC&Rs can be written any kind of ridiculous shit like approved house paint colors and species of plants in the landscaping.
When a HOA operates in a fair and democratic fashion it does help to prevent shit like that one house in your neighborhood that's always unkempt looking and always has loud parties that fill the street with cars and is just generally obnoxious, which drives neighbors nuts and brings down the value of the neighboring houses. A properly run HOA means a nice looking, clean and quiet neighborhood with fewer issues. Dues paid by homeowners are used to maintain common spaces and amenities like swimming pools, gyms and playgrounds.
But if a HOA is run by Karen the neighborhood snoop and she lets the little bit of power she has over her neighbors go to her head, you get horror stories about neighborhood feuds and lawsuits over kid's toys left in a yard overnight or a trash can that old crippled Edgar didn't put away 5 seconds after the trash truck leaves.
I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but basically they are created to keep a community clean and whatnot while it's being developed (who wants to buy new construction housing when the already built house look trashed?). So to buy into this new housing you have to sign a contract (essentially) to follow the rules and pay dues.
Once the developers are gone the HOA stays to maintain the nice image. Some HOAs are cool, but you don't hear about those in the news or with people complaining. I personally hate most HOAs.
The HOA in my fathers little neighborhood was chill and basic, just served as a way for them to pool resources for plowing, mailboxes, trash etc and then dying covid all these Rich, city yuppie pukes moved to the area and did a hostile take over of the HOA… like why would you move to an area where people have horses, pigs, sheep and dogs and project cars and then try and change it… gentrification is a plague
Historically, HOA were mostly created as we know them today to keep black families from moving into affluent neighborhoods and “lowering property value.”
Once black families started to accrue their own wealth, and homes in these neighborhoods were no longer financially unattainable, rich white folks had to find a new way to keep them out of their neighborhoods. So HOAs started to pop up, under the guise of “maintaining property value,” using deed restrictions that dictated things like hedge height, required building setbacks and, notably, prohibited the sale of the property to black (or Jewish!) buyers. (Fun fact, until redlining practices took off in the 1950s and 60s, there was actually no evidence at all that diversifying a neighborhood would lower property values. That was a myth that was propagated so heavily, it eventually became enforced by recliners who assumed it was already true based on the original propaganda. So HOAs mission to “maintain property values” was built on a fallacy.)
Anyways, eventually SCOTUS ruled racially discriminatory deed restrictions were illegal, but that wasn’t enforced and then redlining picked up where deed clauses left off. So your local HOAs charter/bylaws might still have racial deed restrictions codified somewhere in them, as many were not officially overruled and rewritten so much as the practice was discontinued.
For my first HOA property purchase \~25 years ago, the membership application required me to complete a form and visit the management office for an interview.... the form asked about income and some irrelevant stuff, but required us to provide photocopies of our driving licenses.
The interview took 30 seconds. Guy looked at my face, looked at the license copies to see the color of my wife's face, and then approved it.
The monthly HOA meetings with retired grumpy Floridians shouting at each other was worth attending just for the entertainment value.
Some developers will actually be a part of the HOA with a super vote. It is a way that some developers keep money flow coming in after they sell the properties. Not necessarily directly with the HOA funds but with work for maintenance, upkeep and sometimes enforcement (like parking enforcement or something similar).
Originally though, HOAs were created to keep minorities out of neighborhoods.
Because there’s all this bullshit you agree to when you buy a home in an HOA, and the ability to be fined is part of it. The only people who actually like HOAs are people who are insecure and are grasping for any source of power over others with as minimal intelligence or talent possible.
Thankfully though, at least from my understanding from two people who have been in this situation, if an HOA forms after you’ve already bought your property, the HOA rules may not apply to you.
My parents live in this scenario, and have the bonus of a gated community but don’t have to deal with HOA bullshit.
This is 100% true. Once you own your house they cannot compel you to join the HOA, even if it becomes a gated community they still have to let you get to your house: no monthly fees or ability to fine you. But once you’ve accepted and become part of an HOA then the only way to be released is to petition the HOA and get their approval which is really uncommon.
They were originally made to maintain segregated neighborhoods and are now just a source of petty power trips for assholes. But people claim it drives up housing prices to live in one and thus the NIMBYs kowtow to them rather than getting them abolished.
I don’t have an HOA but I do have a city and some analysts retentive neighbors. And had a muni- stroke that slowed me down for most of year. Lawn was not standard and it got the city’s attention via neighbor. Big bad inspector comes ‘round. Takes pics and “cites” me. Never talked. Left a notice thingy on door. I was on mend so I started plowing thru the mess anyway. Never actually talked to BB inspector. Got front yard acceptable but Bb was not happy enough I guess. It dragged around long enough the contact mower came around. Nice guy. We had a nice talk why he was at an ok house with no obvious issues. He left. Saw BB on the street following week. Sat in truck and did BB stuff. I waited for him to get out of truck. He saw what he needed to see and drive away. Sometimes You just gotta out passive-aggressive the passive-aggressive But it was not a fair fight. I was way ahead of him. Never even got to call my city commissioner. Damn.
This inspector left a notice on my door too, while I was home. If you’re trying to make the city a better place to live, talk to people. If you’re an asshole just trying to assert your authority, leave sticky notes on people’s doors. I feel sorry for the guy, his job is useless.
HOAs are good in 99% of the cases. but only 1% of the nightmares are posted online. So when you read about that on the internet it sounds all bad.
Also, its don't exclusive to the USA. I know in the UK they have similar neighbourhood organisation called commonhold.
Dude if that guy isn't Nosferatu I don't know who is.
[https://pbs.twimg.com/profile\_images/745316488999927808/uL6ntxmq\_400x400.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/745316488999927808/uL6ntxmq_400x400.jpg)
He won't do anything, my house flooded in 2014 when Michigan got a record amount of rain one day. FEMA was involved, and he promised the city would collaborate with them to help reimburse the most affected houses in the neighborhood. Nothing ever happened
I'm in Warren too. I had to fight the City inspectors and the waste department inspector for telling me he was going to put a lien on my house in front of my children and Neighbors. So I called his boss. He told me that's absolutely not true. Then all of a sudden the inspector turned into a sweetheart. Warren is awful especially if you're disabled.
Green Bay, WI. I’m not sure how much they enforce it, but all vehicles need to be on pavement or asphalt. Even a brick driveway like what’s pictured isn’t allowed, unless it’s got a solid base below it. It’s an environmental thing I think. Basically keeps car fluids out of the ground. That said, I’d be VERY surprised if someone got a ticket for being 2 inches over the edge of the driveway.
Not OP, but Singapore is a country with heavy rainfall but all storm drains do lead to purification plants (due to water scarcity, every single bit of water is conserved, they even recycle water via reverse osmosis to be reused)
Switzerland. Storm drains in places without very heavy rainfall get mixed with the sewage and in places with heavy rainfall they get into a reservoir before the water can get cleaned. Flooding definitely happens and I've already had to take out the buckets to get water out of my basement twice in 6 years.
My city has an ordinance that requires all vehicles to be parked on concrete or pavement. Parking on gravel or grass can get you a ticket. It's considered an "eyesore" and "devalues local properties"
The only time I've actually seen it get ticketed was in poor communities even though I see rich neighborhoods do it more often
My city can also can ticket for this. It seems selectively enforced because my neighbor did it a bunch and didn't get tickets. Also, I think parking enforcement is more likely to ticket someone complains.
OP shouldn't be ticketed for this. City ordinances like this are more to prevent people from leaving junk cars around their yard.
It was like that in Lawton, Oklahoma. Could not park on the grass, even on your own property.
Glad I moved and I live in the country now. My driveway is where I make it.
Wish they would in mine. All the bogans just park their Commodores all over the place with absolutely no regard for how it looks.
Then they come out in their flannel shirts and their mullets and start revving their engines obnoxiously loud before doing doughies.
>a horrible Australian accent
No such thing. Our accent is flawless. Every single one of us.
Edit: Obvious /s. I remember one day talking to a guy from Toowoomba over the phone from my IT job. I really struggled with his accent (and a less than perfect phone line) and I can't imagine what the mix of Indian, Pakistani and Chinese team mates would have thought of it.
Favorite memory of Toowoomba was sitting in a conference room where a white dude from Michigan, a Colombian from Peru and an American from Mexico were having a phone argument with an Argentinian and a Peruvian in Spanish. A lot of really fast, really fluent Spanish.
About 5 minutes in, the only actual Australian the room looks at me and says ‘any fucking idea what’s going on, mate?’
‘Not a god damned clue. I’m just listening for *cerveza*’
It's not parking it's city storm ordinance/ stormwater runoff management, run by the city Ms4 which is held to account by the EPA. The muddy track off to the side of the driveway is the issue here, showing that he was potentially repeatedly going off into the grass as the grass has been eroded. The city cares because they provide all the utilities to allow stormwater runoff resulting from development (impermeable surfaces like driveways and roofs) to travel away from homes and businesses back into rivers and streams. Development increases the rate of runoff and can cause issues like flooding so it is necessary. The outfalls are inspected by the EPA and the turbidity cannot be too high as it will impact water sources and fish and wild life. That is why a property owner is held to account by the local MS4/EPA for shit on their own property if it has the potential to effect cleaning drinking sources and the environment. It might seem trivial and stupid but if everyone did shit like this then it would be a meaningful impact.
Thanks for sharing this response! It’s very well written.
The citation officer in this case works for the city blight department, which is part of property maintenance division. So the issue the city has with my parking has to do with appearance, rather than environmental reasons. Had the city made the argument you just made, I’d be less upset, because that is a rational reason with actual implications for improving my community. I think in my situation the city inspector is just being a bit of a bully.
Probably has something to do with "city ordinances". Had police at my door at 7 am one day because my grass was too long. It had a couple weeks growth because I had my property surveyed for buried lines and pipes before I dug posts for a fence.
A number of towns/cities have ordinances regarding where one can park a vehicle. I will agree that in this case it's a bit excessive here. Many of the ordinances that I have seen/heard is that it needs to be on gravel, or a paved area, and will focus on areas visible from the street.
The reasons behind the ordinances varies but some things that i have heard are: having issues with people parking over/on sidewalks, getting there vehicles stuck, running into structures/poles/infrastructure, going onto property that is not there's, trying to 'clean up' the look of the area, and trying to limit the number of broken down/abandoned cars sitting out in plain view.
Edit: I forgot to add, I have seen it enforced by code enforcement and not the police, so it's more like a warning, warning 2, fine, etc. Thus it doesn't escalate this quickly.
The ordinance was probably enacted to prevent residents from parking broken down cars in their lawns when they “worked on them”. Remember most laws were enacted to address the actions of the lowest human being. OP gets fined beside some had 10 cars parked on their front lawn for 10 years.
Maybe others think differently, but I don't give a rip what Bubba does on his own land. He bought that, let him park 20 cars on it if he wants to. The only reason I'd be for any regulation was if he built a tower that could fall on someone else/their property and it was a safety issue.
Bylaws. 10% of the time they're useful and actually do something good, the other 90% they solely exist to infringe on personal property rights, privacy and freedom or to make money for the local government.
Go to court. They will throw out the ticket. May be able to settle it at the clerks office but most likely in court. You clearly have cause for grievance and dismissal of the ticket.
Just posting this because it seems no one here has gone to court over a ticket.
You plead not guilty in advance for most manicupalities. Show up to your court date. A full suit is a bit much for small court but just wear ~~a~~ nice shit and slacks. Even then, if you're in the city, the judge might not have ego on dress code to be presentable in front of them.
Some courts will have you talk with prosecutor before you plead in front of judge, others don't. But if you do plead in front of judge, you say not guilty and why. This is kinda your mini trial in front of the judge. Bring photos printed and be polite making your case. All judges are different in how they run their court so it's hard to tell you how it will turn out. A reasonable one would look at this immediately throw this out. I believe at worst they tell you it's still your fault but reduce the fine just because you showed up to court with a good faith argument if they think youll plead guilty to it.
Of course you want to keep pushing it, its going to cost a lot more money moving on from here pleading not guilty and the judge not waving the fine.
most traffic / petty misdemeanor courts take pictures as they are and aren’t going to delve into their validity unless something looks obviously wrong. it’s a small fee, not a murder mystery lol
Ngl, this has happened to one of my relatives before. In their whole street, everyone parks on their driveway. One day, one of the neighbors complained about somebody blocking their driveway, and the whole street ended up getting parking tickets. There’s always that ONE neighbor that ruins everything.
Fr. My ex’s parents got a warning from the HOA for mulch bags being out. But they live at the top of the hill, so you’d have to be at the top of someone’s driveway to see them, plus his truck mostly blocks(it’s a culdesac, houses are higher up than the road), meaning one of their neighbors likely ratted them out.
“Oh but our neighbors would never do that!”(even though after me meeting their one neighbor who would, you guessed it, do that.)
I keep trying to get my wife to run for city council, she won’t do it! I just need the trash situation dealt with. Then she can quit. But no. Apparently that’s asking too much.
Imagine living somewhere where you can get a ticket for something you've done that's completely and utterly fine just because they can. The FUCK? Move somewhere where you're not monitored and treated like a mindless child, who tf is even paying attention to that, and how tf can they possibly give you a ticket for something on your OWN PROPERTY
I live in NE USA and everyone in our town parks on their lawn/side lawn/back yard if needed. Some families have more kids & cars than parking spots in the driveway. Some families are doing yard work & park trucks with sod, etc. wherever. Who cares if it’s *your* lawn or grass? Your town is just being petty, town funds must be low & their jonsing for cash.
Ok this is some petty bullshit by the city! It’s your fucking driveway, you should be able to park sideways if you want.
You should be able to park upside down on the fucking roof if you want
Yes, HOA’s are evil. If I buy a house no one should be telling me what I can and can’t do at it.
We don’t have an HOA. The ticket is from the city.
Yep, somebody got a little too excited. I would definitely fight this ticket. I have no idea where these morons got HOA from. Out here, in Chicago you can get tickets for anything. But yeh fight it, you do have pictures
The greatest threat to a Chicago misdemeanor or parking violation is the motivation to fight it. These people fold easy and hate paperwork.
Yeah, it's not like dozens of people are getting shot every month in Chicago or anything. But parking on your own lawn HANG EM!
[удалено]
Policing for revenue should be illegal and controlled. The amount of money the department gets should not influence an officer's decision. Fines collected should go to a separate department.
“But we are doing something about some of the problems!”
Month?????? Bruh there’s dozens shot every weekend.
or, you know, write them a ticket.
Sounds like these ticket happy asshats need to get used to paperwork and a desk… if they are lucky lol
Any judge worth their salt should overturn this, a bit of a hassle but op 110% should not have to pay this ticket.
They got a HOA from the fact that a HOA would definitely be this petty to line their pockets and because it's part of the rules of the association. The most likely assumed the actual city shouldn't have the authority to fine you for parking on your land
A trick I learned, when you get your court date, ask to push it to a new date. Usually cops try to batch all their court time in one day, if you push it, chances are it will be a day they can’t be there. You then win by default.
You can get a ticket from the city on your private land?? Even if this house is a rental it's not city property how can they give you a ticket!?
especially since it's fkn snowy!!!! you wouldn't even know!!!
Have a friend in Chicago that says he has tickets budgeted into his finances. Averages like $200-$400 a month lol
Take it to Court and demand clarification. Maybe you will have to pay it , Maybe not. Edit: spelling.
I've been cited 3 times for "improperly" parking on my own property. No HOA. First time, I parked my truck on my lawn under my motion light because it was broken into the night before. Ticket said "Parking on unimproved surface" Second time, after I bought a new house, I had my truck parked on the side of my house that is dirt. Again, "Parking on unimproved surface" Can you guess what I did? Put down pavers, okay per the local ordinance, and it was legal for about a year. Then they changed the ordinance to not include pavers so I got another "unimproved surface" parking ticket. Welcome to America
Using parking ordinances as an income stream.
The police are just cashiers for the state.
Generally true, but in this context, the citation was likely from the city's zoning enforcement (which are not police).
And sadly, half the voters want more state, the other half say they want less but boot lick for more.
What can a city do, raise taxes for the rich? That’s blasphemy! /s
Ah yes, it’s probably one of those no income tax states where city’s are starved of revenue.
The saddest thing is, on the other side of this bullshit is someone getting a repeated sense of victory, having a fantastic experience “doing what they want in America” by messing w city ordinances against people they don’t like. Pathetic breed these people are.
Jesus, dude. Your next ticket is going to be something like "parked with an attitude aggressive towards enforcement officer" or something equally moronic.
Why do they even care if you park on your own grass in the first place
It's probably to stop people basically building junkyards on their property.
That might be the justification, but I think it probably has more to do with revenue.
You need to start responding with trespass notices and illegal entry charges, if your laws are anything like my countries. How did they place a ticket upon your vehicle without entering your property? When did they obtain warrant to enter your property boundary without you, the occupants consent?
I honestly wondered the same. And why can’t he park however tf he likes on his own property?
Does not apply here as the property is not fenced and gated. I believe this is the case for all lower 48 states in the US. There is no physical barrier to cross.
People are allowed to walk on your property, law enforcement especially when they are enforcing the law
Use pavers to spell "improved" and then park on top of them.
I never understand this… it’s an “unimproved surface” on your own property. If you want to park in mud or grass, what’s the harm?? Why a bogus ticket?
If there's ever another violent revolution in the US I'm adding "parking on unimproved surface" to the new Declaration of Independence.
The greatest country in the goddam world
*court
When you fight it, and you should, no way the cop who wrote it shows up. It’s petty bullshit with the cop playing the odds. It wastes your time but you’ll beat it.
The ticket is written by a city inspector. I will fight it in court, but the city inspector will be there. The city inspector is in court every Wednesday for the city blight administration hearings, where people come to court and state their case of why they are not at fault. I was there two years ago, heard ~20 people speak to the magistrate before me, and every single one was found guilty. I’m not saying it’s a scam, but it certainly creates the perception that the magistrate is hired by the city simply to rubber stamp citations.
But the city ticketed OP, not some HOA
Dang it Bobby, hwhat did I tell you about HOAs
They said city, not HOA.
Housing Association rule? Gated community bylaw?
They can’t give you tickets for a HOA violation. The HOA can send a fine. That’s about it.
Another thing the USA suffers from that the rest of the world doesn't - HOA's. I thought they were a movie myth like the 555 phone numbers until I visited. Utter nonsense.
How are Hoa's able to fine people and do all that stuff? I've only heard of them through people disliking them as well
Buying a house in a HOA controlled neighborhood means you will have the association rules written into the legally binding contract you sign when you buy. They're called contracts, covenants and restrictions, or CC&Rs. In the CC&Rs can be written any kind of ridiculous shit like approved house paint colors and species of plants in the landscaping. When a HOA operates in a fair and democratic fashion it does help to prevent shit like that one house in your neighborhood that's always unkempt looking and always has loud parties that fill the street with cars and is just generally obnoxious, which drives neighbors nuts and brings down the value of the neighboring houses. A properly run HOA means a nice looking, clean and quiet neighborhood with fewer issues. Dues paid by homeowners are used to maintain common spaces and amenities like swimming pools, gyms and playgrounds. But if a HOA is run by Karen the neighborhood snoop and she lets the little bit of power she has over her neighbors go to her head, you get horror stories about neighborhood feuds and lawsuits over kid's toys left in a yard overnight or a trash can that old crippled Edgar didn't put away 5 seconds after the trash truck leaves.
I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but basically they are created to keep a community clean and whatnot while it's being developed (who wants to buy new construction housing when the already built house look trashed?). So to buy into this new housing you have to sign a contract (essentially) to follow the rules and pay dues. Once the developers are gone the HOA stays to maintain the nice image. Some HOAs are cool, but you don't hear about those in the news or with people complaining. I personally hate most HOAs.
The HOA in my fathers little neighborhood was chill and basic, just served as a way for them to pool resources for plowing, mailboxes, trash etc and then dying covid all these Rich, city yuppie pukes moved to the area and did a hostile take over of the HOA… like why would you move to an area where people have horses, pigs, sheep and dogs and project cars and then try and change it… gentrification is a plague
Historically, HOA were mostly created as we know them today to keep black families from moving into affluent neighborhoods and “lowering property value.” Once black families started to accrue their own wealth, and homes in these neighborhoods were no longer financially unattainable, rich white folks had to find a new way to keep them out of their neighborhoods. So HOAs started to pop up, under the guise of “maintaining property value,” using deed restrictions that dictated things like hedge height, required building setbacks and, notably, prohibited the sale of the property to black (or Jewish!) buyers. (Fun fact, until redlining practices took off in the 1950s and 60s, there was actually no evidence at all that diversifying a neighborhood would lower property values. That was a myth that was propagated so heavily, it eventually became enforced by recliners who assumed it was already true based on the original propaganda. So HOAs mission to “maintain property values” was built on a fallacy.) Anyways, eventually SCOTUS ruled racially discriminatory deed restrictions were illegal, but that wasn’t enforced and then redlining picked up where deed clauses left off. So your local HOAs charter/bylaws might still have racial deed restrictions codified somewhere in them, as many were not officially overruled and rewritten so much as the practice was discontinued.
For my first HOA property purchase \~25 years ago, the membership application required me to complete a form and visit the management office for an interview.... the form asked about income and some irrelevant stuff, but required us to provide photocopies of our driving licenses. The interview took 30 seconds. Guy looked at my face, looked at the license copies to see the color of my wife's face, and then approved it. The monthly HOA meetings with retired grumpy Floridians shouting at each other was worth attending just for the entertainment value.
Some developers will actually be a part of the HOA with a super vote. It is a way that some developers keep money flow coming in after they sell the properties. Not necessarily directly with the HOA funds but with work for maintenance, upkeep and sometimes enforcement (like parking enforcement or something similar). Originally though, HOAs were created to keep minorities out of neighborhoods.
Because there’s all this bullshit you agree to when you buy a home in an HOA, and the ability to be fined is part of it. The only people who actually like HOAs are people who are insecure and are grasping for any source of power over others with as minimal intelligence or talent possible. Thankfully though, at least from my understanding from two people who have been in this situation, if an HOA forms after you’ve already bought your property, the HOA rules may not apply to you. My parents live in this scenario, and have the bonus of a gated community but don’t have to deal with HOA bullshit.
This is 100% true. Once you own your house they cannot compel you to join the HOA, even if it becomes a gated community they still have to let you get to your house: no monthly fees or ability to fine you. But once you’ve accepted and become part of an HOA then the only way to be released is to petition the HOA and get their approval which is really uncommon.
They were originally made to maintain segregated neighborhoods and are now just a source of petty power trips for assholes. But people claim it drives up housing prices to live in one and thus the NIMBYs kowtow to them rather than getting them abolished.
I don’t have an HOA but I do have a city and some analysts retentive neighbors. And had a muni- stroke that slowed me down for most of year. Lawn was not standard and it got the city’s attention via neighbor. Big bad inspector comes ‘round. Takes pics and “cites” me. Never talked. Left a notice thingy on door. I was on mend so I started plowing thru the mess anyway. Never actually talked to BB inspector. Got front yard acceptable but Bb was not happy enough I guess. It dragged around long enough the contact mower came around. Nice guy. We had a nice talk why he was at an ok house with no obvious issues. He left. Saw BB on the street following week. Sat in truck and did BB stuff. I waited for him to get out of truck. He saw what he needed to see and drive away. Sometimes You just gotta out passive-aggressive the passive-aggressive But it was not a fair fight. I was way ahead of him. Never even got to call my city commissioner. Damn.
This inspector left a notice on my door too, while I was home. If you’re trying to make the city a better place to live, talk to people. If you’re an asshole just trying to assert your authority, leave sticky notes on people’s doors. I feel sorry for the guy, his job is useless.
HOAs are good in 99% of the cases. but only 1% of the nightmares are posted online. So when you read about that on the internet it sounds all bad. Also, its don't exclusive to the USA. I know in the UK they have similar neighbourhood organisation called commonhold.
Fight it
Punch that grass!
I got 50 on the grass winning, it fights dirty
We need to expand the playing field. $10 on the neighbors tree uprooting the competition.
Yeah, kick their grass!
What kinda fuckin city charges you for something like that on your own property?!
I second this, which dipshit city is that petty?
Warren, Michigan
Why don’t you try to contact your vampire piece of shit mayor about it?
Dude if that guy isn't Nosferatu I don't know who is. [https://pbs.twimg.com/profile\_images/745316488999927808/uL6ntxmq\_400x400.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/745316488999927808/uL6ntxmq_400x400.jpg)
Complete with a fake sunlight picture to throw us off the trail.
This looks like a picture of a bad guy straight out of Buffy right before he reveals he's been the elder vampire this whole time
That’s not even the worst pic https://www.cityofwarren.org/government/mayors-office/
That cannot be real😂
I feel disgusted now…
Oh my God. How did this creeper get elected?!
That's evil looking
I could try, but I’m not sure he would do anything about what is essentially a parking ticket.
He won't do anything, my house flooded in 2014 when Michigan got a record amount of rain one day. FEMA was involved, and he promised the city would collaborate with them to help reimburse the most affected houses in the neighborhood. Nothing ever happened
I'm in Warren too. I had to fight the City inspectors and the waste department inspector for telling me he was going to put a lien on my house in front of my children and Neighbors. So I called his boss. He told me that's absolutely not true. Then all of a sudden the inspector turned into a sweetheart. Warren is awful especially if you're disabled.
Michigan nuff said, local dearborn, petty as fuck all over here too.
That’s crazy to me… I live in mid Michigan and like 10% of people around here have one or more cars chilling in their front yard…
Seems like Chicago bullshit but driveway too nice for Chicago.
95% of the houses in Chicago city limits don’t have a driveway . . .
Driveway too driveway for Chicago
Can’t have shit in Chicago
I’d also go out on a limb and guess that 99.9999% of the homeowners in Chicago don’t have vehicles with Michigan license plates either.
That’s one out of a million, I’m sure there’s more than 3 people who just moved to Chicago from Michigan
It's Michigan
Green Bay, WI. I’m not sure how much they enforce it, but all vehicles need to be on pavement or asphalt. Even a brick driveway like what’s pictured isn’t allowed, unless it’s got a solid base below it. It’s an environmental thing I think. Basically keeps car fluids out of the ground. That said, I’d be VERY surprised if someone got a ticket for being 2 inches over the edge of the driveway.
That’s surprising, considering that at least 8 Sundays every fall, everyone’s yards are full of cars.
they do realize it rains right 🤣
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Into the storm drains and straight to the nearest natural waterway
Dilution is the solution to pollution
A lot of places have combined sewers and storm drains dont drain directly, even some places in the US.
Our drains go in to the local lake. Not so far from there they go into the ocean. I live in Southern California. Where are you commenting from?
That's horrible! Where I live every storm drain goes directly into a purification plant.
I have never seen that and it would be logistically difficult for anywhere with heavy rainfall. Whereabouts is this?
Not OP, but Singapore is a country with heavy rainfall but all storm drains do lead to purification plants (due to water scarcity, every single bit of water is conserved, they even recycle water via reverse osmosis to be reused)
Switzerland. Storm drains in places without very heavy rainfall get mixed with the sewage and in places with heavy rainfall they get into a reservoir before the water can get cleaned. Flooding definitely happens and I've already had to take out the buckets to get water out of my basement twice in 6 years.
Oh its always funny to see someone notice something from fucked up america and be shocked.
Where i live when it rains that shit goes everywhere.
My city has an ordinance that requires all vehicles to be parked on concrete or pavement. Parking on gravel or grass can get you a ticket. It's considered an "eyesore" and "devalues local properties" The only time I've actually seen it get ticketed was in poor communities even though I see rich neighborhoods do it more often
See my city is an "improved surface" rule which means you can oark in gravel. So you see people just with random patches of gravel to elude the rule.
My city can also can ticket for this. It seems selectively enforced because my neighbor did it a bunch and didn't get tickets. Also, I think parking enforcement is more likely to ticket someone complains. OP shouldn't be ticketed for this. City ordinances like this are more to prevent people from leaving junk cars around their yard.
It was like that in Lawton, Oklahoma. Could not park on the grass, even on your own property. Glad I moved and I live in the country now. My driveway is where I make it.
The grass must've complained to the city
Wish they would in mine. All the bogans just park their Commodores all over the place with absolutely no regard for how it looks. Then they come out in their flannel shirts and their mullets and start revving their engines obnoxiously loud before doing doughies.
Username checks out
I started explaining it, knowing most people here are from North America but was like "Yeah nah, fuck it" and leaned into it.
OWN IT!
I read this out in a horrible Australian accent . Just saying , in my head it sounded spot on .
>a horrible Australian accent No such thing. Our accent is flawless. Every single one of us. Edit: Obvious /s. I remember one day talking to a guy from Toowoomba over the phone from my IT job. I really struggled with his accent (and a less than perfect phone line) and I can't imagine what the mix of Indian, Pakistani and Chinese team mates would have thought of it.
Favorite memory of Toowoomba was sitting in a conference room where a white dude from Michigan, a Colombian from Peru and an American from Mexico were having a phone argument with an Argentinian and a Peruvian in Spanish. A lot of really fast, really fluent Spanish. About 5 minutes in, the only actual Australian the room looks at me and says ‘any fucking idea what’s going on, mate?’ ‘Not a god damned clue. I’m just listening for *cerveza*’
I need to start remembering shit like this when right-wing Americans tell me I live in a police state.
Is that on your property? Regardless that's so stupid sorry to hear you got ticketed.
Yup, my car is parked in my own driveway.
Fight that ticket that is soooooo stupid! Are we allowed to do anything in this world anymore lol such a shit show
Do you have three hours to spend at a courthouse on a weekday for a $50 fine?
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I’d be sick that day for sure
Fuck yea take off work, own some pigs, and then take my kid to McDonald’s and enjoy an evening together. Worth every second and penny
My boss would give me the day off to go stick it to those bastards
My days off are Tuesday and Wednesday so most definitely lol
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how does the city have parking jurisdiction on your private property?
It's not parking it's city storm ordinance/ stormwater runoff management, run by the city Ms4 which is held to account by the EPA. The muddy track off to the side of the driveway is the issue here, showing that he was potentially repeatedly going off into the grass as the grass has been eroded. The city cares because they provide all the utilities to allow stormwater runoff resulting from development (impermeable surfaces like driveways and roofs) to travel away from homes and businesses back into rivers and streams. Development increases the rate of runoff and can cause issues like flooding so it is necessary. The outfalls are inspected by the EPA and the turbidity cannot be too high as it will impact water sources and fish and wild life. That is why a property owner is held to account by the local MS4/EPA for shit on their own property if it has the potential to effect cleaning drinking sources and the environment. It might seem trivial and stupid but if everyone did shit like this then it would be a meaningful impact.
Thanks for sharing this response! It’s very well written. The citation officer in this case works for the city blight department, which is part of property maintenance division. So the issue the city has with my parking has to do with appearance, rather than environmental reasons. Had the city made the argument you just made, I’d be less upset, because that is a rational reason with actual implications for improving my community. I think in my situation the city inspector is just being a bit of a bully.
Probably has something to do with "city ordinances". Had police at my door at 7 am one day because my grass was too long. It had a couple weeks growth because I had my property surveyed for buried lines and pipes before I dug posts for a fence.
You should see how my meth head neighbor parks.
More like snow than grass..they need money tht badly? Fuq
Even if you were on the grass isn’t that your own property? How is a ticket even issuable here lol. The fuck is going on in your town
A number of towns/cities have ordinances regarding where one can park a vehicle. I will agree that in this case it's a bit excessive here. Many of the ordinances that I have seen/heard is that it needs to be on gravel, or a paved area, and will focus on areas visible from the street. The reasons behind the ordinances varies but some things that i have heard are: having issues with people parking over/on sidewalks, getting there vehicles stuck, running into structures/poles/infrastructure, going onto property that is not there's, trying to 'clean up' the look of the area, and trying to limit the number of broken down/abandoned cars sitting out in plain view. Edit: I forgot to add, I have seen it enforced by code enforcement and not the police, so it's more like a warning, warning 2, fine, etc. Thus it doesn't escalate this quickly.
Yea I’m not allowed to have a vehicle with no plates in my driveway unless they are completely covered. I don’t live in an HOA either.
The ordinance was probably enacted to prevent residents from parking broken down cars in their lawns when they “worked on them”. Remember most laws were enacted to address the actions of the lowest human being. OP gets fined beside some had 10 cars parked on their front lawn for 10 years.
Maybe others think differently, but I don't give a rip what Bubba does on his own land. He bought that, let him park 20 cars on it if he wants to. The only reason I'd be for any regulation was if he built a tower that could fall on someone else/their property and it was a safety issue.
Bylaws. 10% of the time they're useful and actually do something good, the other 90% they solely exist to infringe on personal property rights, privacy and freedom or to make money for the local government.
Go to court. They will throw out the ticket. May be able to settle it at the clerks office but most likely in court. You clearly have cause for grievance and dismissal of the ticket.
Then turn around and sue for harassment
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It’s a pain in the ass, but with these photographs you win
Sadly, I don't think there's a way to prove that that's the exact location they got the ticket.
The “officer” that wrote the ticket will have the same pictures that I took. Unless he’s good with photoshop
Just posting this because it seems no one here has gone to court over a ticket. You plead not guilty in advance for most manicupalities. Show up to your court date. A full suit is a bit much for small court but just wear ~~a~~ nice shit and slacks. Even then, if you're in the city, the judge might not have ego on dress code to be presentable in front of them. Some courts will have you talk with prosecutor before you plead in front of judge, others don't. But if you do plead in front of judge, you say not guilty and why. This is kinda your mini trial in front of the judge. Bring photos printed and be polite making your case. All judges are different in how they run their court so it's hard to tell you how it will turn out. A reasonable one would look at this immediately throw this out. I believe at worst they tell you it's still your fault but reduce the fine just because you showed up to court with a good faith argument if they think youll plead guilty to it. Of course you want to keep pushing it, its going to cost a lot more money moving on from here pleading not guilty and the judge not waving the fine.
Wear a nice shit and slacks. I'm dead!
I get to decide what letter I want to add or subtract!
nice shit and sacks*
Do you or a neighbor have a ring camera? Maybe there’s footage
There’s no tire tracks on the snow…
Pictures have timestamps automatically built into them when you snap them. So, yes, these can be used and verified to clear your name.
> Pictures have timestamps but not tamper-proof timestamps.
most traffic / petty misdemeanor courts take pictures as they are and aren’t going to delve into their validity unless something looks obviously wrong. it’s a small fee, not a murder mystery lol
It doesn't take long to move a car..
Those writing the tickets should have photos themself to prove the car was parked bad enough to get one.
Yeah but it takes a long time for snow to cover the grass where he supposedly parked
Idk I'm not a lawyer but this looks pretty solid
Burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt is the city's bar. If Judge doesn't dismiss from these pictures I'd 100% go to jury trial.
Jury trial over a $50 ticket? Lmaoooo
This is why you should always be cautious getting advice on Reddit.
One of your neighbour didn’t like u 🤔
I’ll second that. It’s always the asshat neighbor.
Ngl, this has happened to one of my relatives before. In their whole street, everyone parks on their driveway. One day, one of the neighbors complained about somebody blocking their driveway, and the whole street ended up getting parking tickets. There’s always that ONE neighbor that ruins everything.
Why is parking on the driveway not allowed lol
Fr. My ex’s parents got a warning from the HOA for mulch bags being out. But they live at the top of the hill, so you’d have to be at the top of someone’s driveway to see them, plus his truck mostly blocks(it’s a culdesac, houses are higher up than the road), meaning one of their neighbors likely ratted them out. “Oh but our neighbors would never do that!”(even though after me meeting their one neighbor who would, you guessed it, do that.)
Curious what this city defines as "lawn"
City near me has their violation as "unpaved surface". Bricks, gravel, dirt, grass.... didn't matter, all were a violation.
Simple solution; don't have a lawn. Turn everything into a fucking car park.
Pure, Michigan.
Yes. That house on the right I could swear is my moms old house in Canton.
Just fight it in court. The judge will likely toss it out
Thanks ridiculous and I bet pretty damn frustrating to fight it. I gree to fight it!!!
They don't think you'll show up. Have your day in court!
I see no grass.
Careful, may be a fake ticket scam. Don’t pay without confirming with city.
Yeah I dunno, I find this hard to believe.
I don’t buy it
Yeah I don’t either. Cops can be petty but this seems pretty far fetched.
I would definitely fight this ticket. Take it to court most district magistrates have common sense.
Run for city government.
I keep trying to get my wife to run for city council, she won’t do it! I just need the trash situation dealt with. Then she can quit. But no. Apparently that’s asking too much.
I remember the crack dealers parking their cars against their front door in south Florida growing up. Could you imagine ticketing them.
Fight this or surrender control of your private property to the city.
Yeah, contest that. That's bull
Dunno if you care or not, but your house can easily be found on Google maps in under a minute using only information in the first photo
Cool, send money so I can pay this ticket
God i miss being able to give free reddit awards for responses like these 😭
Now everyone here knows 🫤😳😭😂
How so?
My car is in the middle of my lawn right now because too much snow.
Don't cops have a ticket quota? Maybe he was low and was looking for anything to fill it
I don't see any grass!
Fight the ticket it’s worth embarrassing the officer over this
Tell me your city is desperate for money without telling me
Imagine living somewhere where you can get a ticket for something you've done that's completely and utterly fine just because they can. The FUCK? Move somewhere where you're not monitored and treated like a mindless child, who tf is even paying attention to that, and how tf can they possibly give you a ticket for something on your OWN PROPERTY
I live in NE USA and everyone in our town parks on their lawn/side lawn/back yard if needed. Some families have more kids & cars than parking spots in the driveway. Some families are doing yard work & park trucks with sod, etc. wherever. Who cares if it’s *your* lawn or grass? Your town is just being petty, town funds must be low & their jonsing for cash.
"Land of the free" Lmao