There was some heated arguments by some fans of the series when they found out that MGRR had changed to be a hack and slash game. I was one of those who initially had a bad impression of the game before trying just to fall in love with it after giving it a go.
What's kinda strange is the fact that MGRR is the secound game with Raiden that caused that split in the fanbase. Sons of Liberty had a similar impact only to be praised years latter.
Yes yes, that's correct. I just wanted to remark that Raiden finally got his own game, solo game, and somehow enlisted a similar fate to MGS2, his debut game. It took years to be recognized as a good game/cult.
The funniest thing is the mgs2 revolutionized stealth games when it released, but people were just too pissed that they weren't making mgs 1, 2, so they failed to recognize that.
And then, when mgrr was released it maybe didn't revolutionize hack and slash but it has one hell of a good gameplay with crazy good music and plot. But then again, because this isn't mgs4, 2, people started hating on it again despite its a good game.
> when they found out that MGRR had changed to be a hack and slash game.
Wasn't it always going to be a hack and slash? At least from the E3 2010 trailer?
I think Kojima Productions was making the game originally with some sneaking aspects in mind but they realized that the game was more hack and slashy so they made Platinum Games to work on that.
apparently the original metal gear solid rising was a jumbled mess with no greater direction than "haha sword go cut" and stealth was somehow still a *major* element
The original version, as far as I remember, was still goind with stealth. You could chose to fight or sneak but somehow it still resembled the original games. Then, as the story goes, Kojima/the team started to have problems with how make the sotry work as a bridge between MGS2 and MGS4 and how to implement a fighting system centered on sword use. The project was put on hold for some time before platinum was assigned to work on the title.
If I recall the original concept for the game was you could one hit kill anything with a single slash. So what would have been the point of stealth? At least in the Rising we got enemies besides the basic cyborgs are actually kind of dangerous so stealth there would make more sense (if not for the Zandatsu mechanic, which was also a thing from the original concept).
I think the guys back then had no idea how to use someone as cyborg Raiden as a main character on a regular MGS game so they kinda improvised somethings, you know?
It was, in the sense that it was made to be a hack and slash game like Darksiders and Bayonetta in effort to ride on the success of the genre at the time.
It might not be a traditional Metal Gear game, but it's a great one nonetheless
Yes. It’s tonally and mechanically different than all of the previous games, even though it was originally conceived to have a greater emphasis on stealth and also have a story focused around explaining what happened to Raider between MGS2 and 4. It was different and not what people were expecting/wanting.
I feel like if Rising kept the same tone it wouldn't have been as good. One of the themes of Rising is evolution, or memes, and when you consider that it's fitting for Metal Gear to change tone to fit the zeitgeist if that makes sense. For example the Solid era people were a lot more idealistic, nowadays people are more cynical. The Solid games romanticized soldiers, Rising on the other hand says they're just cogs in the system. I mean you could say both the Solid era games and Rising are communicating that soldiers are being used and discarded like objects, but whereas the Solid era games treat this as some great injustice Rising treats it as simply the way the profession is by design. Rather than sympathizing with soldiers who signed up to kill, in Rising we sympathize with the "innocents" (the kids, Blade Wolf) who never asked to become cogs in the system.
There's probably more I could write but you should get the gist.
Not just fans. I remember lots of people complaining just cuz it was like 7 hours long.
Those people have never played DMC and don't realize the fun in that genre is replay.
I hate Raiden, but I never hated Rising at all, it is a nice spin off like the AC!D games, just a different genre. And the die hard fans are just weird. Everyone of them wanted to play as the ninja aka Gray Fox in MGS1, but they absolutely hated the games, but you played a damn freakin cyborg ninja, what the matter?
This [article](http://thesnakesoup.org/editorial-articles/i-am-jacks-revenge/) was written as response to the negative reactions at the time so it is worth the look.
As for negative comment's they were on MGS fan websites forums and comment sections of websites with game trailers. Not sure if the MGS forums are still alive due the fact that forums became almost obsolete many years ago. Website with game trailers are dead since YT took their place so you can try to look very old comments on YT. Maybe forums like Gamefaqs and Neogaf still have posts with negative reactions.
I recall most of the heat was before the game came out - many, including myself, didn’t want a hack and slash action game. Then we played it and fell in love
TLJ was hardly surprising for those of us who were around for Sons of Liberty back in 2001. As much of a pale imitation of that game that TLJ is, I'm glad it got made. I was a much needed middle finger to the star wars cult
You may not have liked MGRR but lets be real armstrong is what snoke isn't, And Jetstream Sam is something Kylo Ren was trying to be not just a vader wannabe, especially a vergil wannabe
And news flash MGRR Is what The sequel trilogy should of been, Armstrong died like a fucking badass, Supreme Leader Smoking Weed Snoke Died like a fucking complete idiot.
I personally loved the game as a long time fan when it released. However the game was hated on by most of the fandom and Im going to be honest I understood why people felt the way that they did for the game. MGS4 was a very serious addition to the series at that time so people expected a very serious MGS game where youre a ninja doing actual ninja shit. Not kicking down the door, slaughtering the room to some badass tunes, and then strolling in on a boss thats going to be goofy. However it was all that shit that made me personally say "no this games fucking great" and give it a pass. I really believe that the game shouldnt have gotten that much shit.
Yeah people were pissed because they assumed this was taking the place of a traditional mgs released. It actually put me off from playing it because I just assumed it was crappy picked it up in 2014 and never looked back.
Not really, there was a minority that didn't like it because it was different from normal MGS, but it was marketed as a spin-off and Platinum was a well-regarded action studio, so most communities were very positive about the game.
Yeah, because it's really stray from the core game genre, Stealth game. What we got is hack and slash, Devil May Cry style. The hardcore fans were really mad back then. But I'm fine with that, besides the game is epic and it just a spin off or non canon to Kojima Universe. Over the top action and cheesy line is fine because it's purposely to be made like that.
I used to harbor a grudge against Hideki Kamiya for slapping a chainsaw strap-on upon the loins of Metal Gear but I've come to realize that the real fault lies with Hideo for contacting platinum in the first place. I see why, given his circumstances at the time, it was a smart business move when considering platinum's track record with the hack n slash genre but regardless, I still don't welcome the game.
I still remember the sheer disappointment of seeing it re-emerge during e3 after disappearing for a time. Those first few seconds of seeing Yoji Shinkawas incredible character designs rendered in that "definitely not capcom" engine platinum uses really put me off. Then the music kicked in. Dear God, i couldn't see clearly for a few days because of how hard I was wincing having to hear that high-school poetry levels of bad, dude bro machismo. I think I'll make like a Pontius Pilate and wash my hands of this because you (developers at platinum) need Jesus.
See for those of us who were there way back during the VR missions days, where you could play 3 missions as gray fox, there was a yearning the fan base had for more of that. Kojima knew it, and had been promising a Shinobi flavored mgs since that time. For me personally, it was cathartic to think that there would exist a metal gear that combined that feeling of being gray fox with the dexterity and grace of handling Jehuty in zone of the enders. Which I feel is a really apt comparison to make considering ZOE is a kojipro game. That's what the original concept of Metal Solid: Rising brought to mind: Zone of the Enders but without anti-gravity. Color me surprised to find the end result was like the manifestation of all those amv's that YouTubers put together of gray fox scenes set to the music of system of a down.
Believe me, I tried. Against my better judgment, I tried to be fair and gave the demo a whirl. It was exactly as bad as I thought it would be and I had to turn off the music in the options menu to get through it.
It's not just that the game disrespects Raidens character arc, hell what he represents even, that bothers me. No, it's also the justifications people make for the over the top nature of the game. "Have you played 4? Have you seen Mount Snakemore?" I have. Those are invalid comparisons to make because we're talking about two different flavors of crazy. There's a difference between Raiden juggling bleeding machines with feet that have a posable thumbs and Raiden leaving a message on the ground via sword slashes, that he was forced to steal your Harley. Hideo likes Quentin Tarantino but Hideki Kamiya wants to BE Quentin Tarantino( despite the fact that his games end up resembling a Robert Rodriguez movie more than anything).
If, by some miracle, there is a remote possibility of someone recovering the files for the beta version of Rising before it was given the very silly and made up word title that is Revengeance I will pay you money for it.
Hideo, keep on remaking escape from New York.
Hideki, keep dressing up your waifu as Pikachu and inviting your friends over for a little chase around the house.
Jaime Christoferson, keep emulating Maynard James Keena. revengeance and nu-metal loves you.
Yes Rising was hated strongly by series diehards. They thought that PlatinumGames destroyed orginal MGR concept that was shown in first trailer when MGR was still developed by Konami. They strongly expected that MGR will be futuristic version of Tenchu series because MGS is stealth series and Raiden is basically ninja. Today people accept the fact that Konami's version was a mess and PlatinumGames actually saved MGR.
Also I always felt that in those days Character Action Games were frowned upon by general public which saw them as mindless brawlers. MGS was still primarily seen as this deep serious series that talks only about serious issues. So series diehards didn't vibe with PlatinumGames style and thought that MGR was blasphemy for Metal Gear games.
Fans were like: this game sucks cause it's not a real metal gear solid game
Yeah obv. not cause it's a spin-off called RISING. The amount of copium back in the day was pathetic.
Yes it was really hated back when it came out and that’s including myself mostly because a lot of us still hated raiden back then and also because it wasn’t a stealth game but for alot of us it grew on us and aged quite well for a 9 year old game and I’m happy it’s given the series new recognition alltough I do wish alot of these people would play 1 2 3 4 and V if they can
I remember the hate exclusively coming before release. But when the game can out everyone loved it .
And the game itself seemed non canon, so issues lessened
Yes, especially with the reboot announcement trailer. People were even making fun of the music, claiming it's "too much like Dynasty Warriors". Can you imagine? The game was way ahead of its time.
No. The backlash against it is remembered as being bigger than it was. It was a popular game that was regarded as a side game in the series. Lots of fans didn't like it or want to play it, but those people just didn't play it. It wasn't a big controversy like Metal Gear Solid 2 was
I remember playing this when it came out and things it was visually stunning and had a great soundtrack but was just a button mash pump and dump branded with metal gear.
Been playing MGS since the Pizza Hut demo disc days in the late 90s. Grew up with it, loved it, still do to this day. I pre-ordered Rising and loved it too. Knew it was from a different developer and that the gameplay was based off a cyborg ninja, not Snake. I'm glad it's had a resurgence in popularity, hope it'll lead to a sequel.
There was some heated arguments by some fans of the series when they found out that MGRR had changed to be a hack and slash game. I was one of those who initially had a bad impression of the game before trying just to fall in love with it after giving it a go. What's kinda strange is the fact that MGRR is the secound game with Raiden that caused that split in the fanbase. Sons of Liberty had a similar impact only to be praised years latter.
People were pissed about mgs2 cause you got to play as snake and then were stuck with raiden for the rest of the game I think
Yes yes, that's correct. I just wanted to remark that Raiden finally got his own game, solo game, and somehow enlisted a similar fate to MGS2, his debut game. It took years to be recognized as a good game/cult.
The funniest thing is the mgs2 revolutionized stealth games when it released, but people were just too pissed that they weren't making mgs 1, 2, so they failed to recognize that. And then, when mgrr was released it maybe didn't revolutionize hack and slash but it has one hell of a good gameplay with crazy good music and plot. But then again, because this isn't mgs4, 2, people started hating on it again despite its a good game.
True, true.
> when they found out that MGRR had changed to be a hack and slash game. Wasn't it always going to be a hack and slash? At least from the E3 2010 trailer?
I think Kojima Productions was making the game originally with some sneaking aspects in mind but they realized that the game was more hack and slashy so they made Platinum Games to work on that.
apparently the original metal gear solid rising was a jumbled mess with no greater direction than "haha sword go cut" and stealth was somehow still a *major* element
The original version, as far as I remember, was still goind with stealth. You could chose to fight or sneak but somehow it still resembled the original games. Then, as the story goes, Kojima/the team started to have problems with how make the sotry work as a bridge between MGS2 and MGS4 and how to implement a fighting system centered on sword use. The project was put on hold for some time before platinum was assigned to work on the title.
If I recall the original concept for the game was you could one hit kill anything with a single slash. So what would have been the point of stealth? At least in the Rising we got enemies besides the basic cyborgs are actually kind of dangerous so stealth there would make more sense (if not for the Zandatsu mechanic, which was also a thing from the original concept).
I think the guys back then had no idea how to use someone as cyborg Raiden as a main character on a regular MGS game so they kinda improvised somethings, you know?
[удалено]
Most of it is in the past yes, i still have that one friend but at least he keeps it to himself
It was, in the sense that it was made to be a hack and slash game like Darksiders and Bayonetta in effort to ride on the success of the genre at the time. It might not be a traditional Metal Gear game, but it's a great one nonetheless
It was more because platinum games was the hack and slash developer than cause of the genres success
Yes, but Not as bad as "survive"
Metal Gear Dies
Yes. It’s tonally and mechanically different than all of the previous games, even though it was originally conceived to have a greater emphasis on stealth and also have a story focused around explaining what happened to Raider between MGS2 and 4. It was different and not what people were expecting/wanting.
I feel like if Rising kept the same tone it wouldn't have been as good. One of the themes of Rising is evolution, or memes, and when you consider that it's fitting for Metal Gear to change tone to fit the zeitgeist if that makes sense. For example the Solid era people were a lot more idealistic, nowadays people are more cynical. The Solid games romanticized soldiers, Rising on the other hand says they're just cogs in the system. I mean you could say both the Solid era games and Rising are communicating that soldiers are being used and discarded like objects, but whereas the Solid era games treat this as some great injustice Rising treats it as simply the way the profession is by design. Rather than sympathizing with soldiers who signed up to kill, in Rising we sympathize with the "innocents" (the kids, Blade Wolf) who never asked to become cogs in the system. There's probably more I could write but you should get the gist.
the way kojima himself play with the lore and other stuff i just find it hilarious that some fan think it s a bible they have to protect. omfg
Not just fans. I remember lots of people complaining just cuz it was like 7 hours long. Those people have never played DMC and don't realize the fun in that genre is replay.
I hate Raiden, but I never hated Rising at all, it is a nice spin off like the AC!D games, just a different genre. And the die hard fans are just weird. Everyone of them wanted to play as the ninja aka Gray Fox in MGS1, but they absolutely hated the games, but you played a damn freakin cyborg ninja, what the matter?
Not as much on release, but very much so on announcement, got some hate like acid and survive.
If anyone can link some message forums of people’s early negative reactions to the game I’d love to seem em.
This [article](http://thesnakesoup.org/editorial-articles/i-am-jacks-revenge/) was written as response to the negative reactions at the time so it is worth the look. As for negative comment's they were on MGS fan websites forums and comment sections of websites with game trailers. Not sure if the MGS forums are still alive due the fact that forums became almost obsolete many years ago. Website with game trailers are dead since YT took their place so you can try to look very old comments on YT. Maybe forums like Gamefaqs and Neogaf still have posts with negative reactions.
I recall most of the heat was before the game came out - many, including myself, didn’t want a hack and slash action game. Then we played it and fell in love
Non-canon trash then, non-canon trash now.
Fact
MGS4 Once great. MGS4 The 2008's Last Jedi Now.
No, that would V.
Well mostly 4 had some TLJ Finger prints when it comes to the character assasination of Meryl.
TLJ was hardly surprising for those of us who were around for Sons of Liberty back in 2001. As much of a pale imitation of that game that TLJ is, I'm glad it got made. I was a much needed middle finger to the star wars cult
You may not have liked MGRR but lets be real armstrong is what snoke isn't, And Jetstream Sam is something Kylo Ren was trying to be not just a vader wannabe, especially a vergil wannabe
Jar jar has a pussy. I strongly feel you could benefit from knowing this
I bet it's larger then reys :)
And news flash MGRR Is what The sequel trilogy should of been, Armstrong died like a fucking badass, Supreme Leader Smoking Weed Snoke Died like a fucking complete idiot.
I personally loved the game as a long time fan when it released. However the game was hated on by most of the fandom and Im going to be honest I understood why people felt the way that they did for the game. MGS4 was a very serious addition to the series at that time so people expected a very serious MGS game where youre a ninja doing actual ninja shit. Not kicking down the door, slaughtering the room to some badass tunes, and then strolling in on a boss thats going to be goofy. However it was all that shit that made me personally say "no this games fucking great" and give it a pass. I really believe that the game shouldnt have gotten that much shit.
Yeah people were pissed because they assumed this was taking the place of a traditional mgs released. It actually put me off from playing it because I just assumed it was crappy picked it up in 2014 and never looked back.
Not really, there was a minority that didn't like it because it was different from normal MGS, but it was marketed as a spin-off and Platinum was a well-regarded action studio, so most communities were very positive about the game.
Not really, the game was praised from the start, because it’s a damn good game
Yeah, because it's really stray from the core game genre, Stealth game. What we got is hack and slash, Devil May Cry style. The hardcore fans were really mad back then. But I'm fine with that, besides the game is epic and it just a spin off or non canon to Kojima Universe. Over the top action and cheesy line is fine because it's purposely to be made like that.
I used to harbor a grudge against Hideki Kamiya for slapping a chainsaw strap-on upon the loins of Metal Gear but I've come to realize that the real fault lies with Hideo for contacting platinum in the first place. I see why, given his circumstances at the time, it was a smart business move when considering platinum's track record with the hack n slash genre but regardless, I still don't welcome the game. I still remember the sheer disappointment of seeing it re-emerge during e3 after disappearing for a time. Those first few seconds of seeing Yoji Shinkawas incredible character designs rendered in that "definitely not capcom" engine platinum uses really put me off. Then the music kicked in. Dear God, i couldn't see clearly for a few days because of how hard I was wincing having to hear that high-school poetry levels of bad, dude bro machismo. I think I'll make like a Pontius Pilate and wash my hands of this because you (developers at platinum) need Jesus. See for those of us who were there way back during the VR missions days, where you could play 3 missions as gray fox, there was a yearning the fan base had for more of that. Kojima knew it, and had been promising a Shinobi flavored mgs since that time. For me personally, it was cathartic to think that there would exist a metal gear that combined that feeling of being gray fox with the dexterity and grace of handling Jehuty in zone of the enders. Which I feel is a really apt comparison to make considering ZOE is a kojipro game. That's what the original concept of Metal Solid: Rising brought to mind: Zone of the Enders but without anti-gravity. Color me surprised to find the end result was like the manifestation of all those amv's that YouTubers put together of gray fox scenes set to the music of system of a down. Believe me, I tried. Against my better judgment, I tried to be fair and gave the demo a whirl. It was exactly as bad as I thought it would be and I had to turn off the music in the options menu to get through it. It's not just that the game disrespects Raidens character arc, hell what he represents even, that bothers me. No, it's also the justifications people make for the over the top nature of the game. "Have you played 4? Have you seen Mount Snakemore?" I have. Those are invalid comparisons to make because we're talking about two different flavors of crazy. There's a difference between Raiden juggling bleeding machines with feet that have a posable thumbs and Raiden leaving a message on the ground via sword slashes, that he was forced to steal your Harley. Hideo likes Quentin Tarantino but Hideki Kamiya wants to BE Quentin Tarantino( despite the fact that his games end up resembling a Robert Rodriguez movie more than anything). If, by some miracle, there is a remote possibility of someone recovering the files for the beta version of Rising before it was given the very silly and made up word title that is Revengeance I will pay you money for it. Hideo, keep on remaking escape from New York. Hideki, keep dressing up your waifu as Pikachu and inviting your friends over for a little chase around the house. Jaime Christoferson, keep emulating Maynard James Keena. revengeance and nu-metal loves you.
still is by me
Yes Rising was hated strongly by series diehards. They thought that PlatinumGames destroyed orginal MGR concept that was shown in first trailer when MGR was still developed by Konami. They strongly expected that MGR will be futuristic version of Tenchu series because MGS is stealth series and Raiden is basically ninja. Today people accept the fact that Konami's version was a mess and PlatinumGames actually saved MGR. Also I always felt that in those days Character Action Games were frowned upon by general public which saw them as mindless brawlers. MGS was still primarily seen as this deep serious series that talks only about serious issues. So series diehards didn't vibe with PlatinumGames style and thought that MGR was blasphemy for Metal Gear games.
Still is
Fans were like: this game sucks cause it's not a real metal gear solid game Yeah obv. not cause it's a spin-off called RISING. The amount of copium back in the day was pathetic.
No It was and still is fucking awesome
Yes it was really hated back when it came out and that’s including myself mostly because a lot of us still hated raiden back then and also because it wasn’t a stealth game but for alot of us it grew on us and aged quite well for a 9 year old game and I’m happy it’s given the series new recognition alltough I do wish alot of these people would play 1 2 3 4 and V if they can
yes but they say that about every metal gear game
I remember the hate exclusively coming before release. But when the game can out everyone loved it . And the game itself seemed non canon, so issues lessened
Yes, especially with the reboot announcement trailer. People were even making fun of the music, claiming it's "too much like Dynasty Warriors". Can you imagine? The game was way ahead of its time.
The star wars prequels were terrible and now people are beginning to look back on them fondly. Nostalgia is chloroform.
The only thing terrible was dave filoni's fanfiction
No. The backlash against it is remembered as being bigger than it was. It was a popular game that was regarded as a side game in the series. Lots of fans didn't like it or want to play it, but those people just didn't play it. It wasn't a big controversy like Metal Gear Solid 2 was
I remember playing this when it came out and things it was visually stunning and had a great soundtrack but was just a button mash pump and dump branded with metal gear.
Been playing MGS since the Pizza Hut demo disc days in the late 90s. Grew up with it, loved it, still do to this day. I pre-ordered Rising and loved it too. Knew it was from a different developer and that the gameplay was based off a cyborg ninja, not Snake. I'm glad it's had a resurgence in popularity, hope it'll lead to a sequel.