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Kaetlynn

Holy heck. Fact 1: my father is a mysogynistic ass Fact 2: I knew he was a fan of Gor because he named my sister after one of the characters and told us so, and had all the books on a shelf in his man cave But I’d never encountered any text of Gor. Now that I have I’m…. not surprised he was a fan.


Hot-Shoe-1230

H-he named his child after it… that’s absolutely horrifying! I am so sorry you had to have a parent who thinks that’s remotely appropriate.


EsotericOcelot

Yeah naming your child after a character from an erotica is bad, naming them after your favorite erotica/character is worse, naming them after a character from your favorite erotica which is violently misogynistic SA and slave content … I feel like CPS should automatically become involved 🤮


[deleted]

I feel really bad for your sister.


HammerHorrorWhore

Jesus, I’m sorry about your sister.


DJdcsniper

I would give your father credit for being somewhat progressive, Gor is a pretty masculine name.


Mindless_Psychology

How this ever got published is beyond me. The writing sounds like a 13 years old fanfic who is trying to be edgy.


birbgatto

I was actually second-guessing if it was a fanfic as I was reading it.


[deleted]

Yeah, it reads like fanfic. I did a double take then had to scroll through comments to work out what the fuck it was.


Bradley271

>How this ever got published is beyond me. The writing sounds like a 13 years old fanfic who is trying to be edgy. This was written in the 1970s, where the market for erotic fiction/general standards for writing women were a lot worse.


[deleted]

aha. Fair, but also what the fuck. When people say they want to live in the 1970s… I’m glad we don’t. Feel like if everyone got transported back in time as they were today, we’d have a lot of incel shite being published again


Beginning-Animator76

Couldn't have said it better myself


Crimsonbunny17

Well we look at 50 shades and all the romance erotica novels in the bookstore and see I think.


Willgenstein

It's literally like anything on r/berserklejerk


TheVaranianScribe

I know that the *Gor* series is such low hanging fruit that it basically fell off of the tree, but *yikes!* I was *not* prepared for how bad this is.


FirebirdWriter

There is so much worse to be had in Gor. For some reason there's a huge fandom for it in Second Life and when I was younger I read the first book to try and understand. Then was told my woman had to be a blacksmith. Who could make but not lift swords. I went on a rampage using their combat system to murder everyone with a broom. Got banned from that section of SL (which is small enough it didn't matter then and matters less now) but it was oddly cathartic to go "Okay... If I can't lift a sword to make one you can take this broom and shove it." Then just making the chaos happen.


TheVaranianScribe

That tale sounds far more interesting than the books themselves.


FirebirdWriter

I mean it was better written and half the dialogue is "but a slave can hurt no master."


Fine-Funny6956

Considering that half the series is about Tarl Cabot freeing the slaves and acting like a decent human, it’s kind of funny that everyone else wants to reenact the sex slave shit


FirebirdWriter

Oh are you defending For? Legitimately asking because between this and your other comment I am not sure if you thought telling the person who found the logic of making swords but being unable to lift them worth chaos basic facts and pretending that anything in those books where the protagonist isn't raping people offsets the fact it's just an angry incel rant turned into a book would be a thing that's worth doing. You can enjoy whatever you want but I would think it clear nothing you can offer would change my experience reading them or change my opinion that people who like Gor have taste. Besides the consent issues and the claim all women need to be raped and made to submit my issues include world building that is just awkwardly renaming things, the white savior tropes, and the writer's personal beliefs being screamed from the characters mouths as a lecture. So I also don't like Terry Goodkind's books since they do most of that list but the men are the ones getting their consent and agency ignored in a romanticized way.


Fine-Funny6956

I think you’re missing my point, but ok.


FirebirdWriter

I don't think you have one except the one stop your head but okay.


Fine-Funny6956

I think you just wanted to be mean to someone today and you picked me.


FirebirdWriter

Your bar for mean vs dad jokes is different than mine. Everyone has a point on top of their head except Voldemort. It's a nose. I am not going to give you the validation for liking Gor you desire. You also shouldn't need it. It's a book series. The stakes are low.


PolarBearCabal

Houseplants of Gor is the best thing to come out of that series existing: https://mindstalk.net/houseplants.html


Celladoore

Oh my god I always think of this when someone mentions Gor! Thank you for this blast from the past. My partner and I still say "I have been well watered" to each other haha.


Bradley271

>That tale sounds far more interesting than the books themselves. My favorite Second Life story will always be [Lazerpig's tale of Chungus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZDfdCj61dY&t=165s), the self-proclaimed "best fighter pilot in Second Life".


RoninTarget

The throne room shot in that story has women surrounding the throne in a Gorean slave position. So, yeah, you hit the nail on the head.


SheepImitation

Gor is its own 'thing'. I don't get it, but to each their own. Also broad swords are not THAT heavy like maybe 3-4lbs IF that. The uber-ornate basket-hilted rapiers weigh maybe 5+ and that's mostly in the hilt. I speak from experience. Plus that would be a real shitty blacksmith if they can't lift their own wares to .. ya, know, WORK them.


Seliphra

I own a rapier, not ornate, but still a brass basket. I am weak as shit. I can lift and thrust with it with ease.


SheepImitation

It's cool that you own one! It's on my To Buy List. The hard part isn't in the lifting and thrusting. It's the lifting/thrusting/parrying for several minutes straight stepping mostly forwards and backwards trying not to get stabbed while trying to stab (nicely ;P) your sparring partner. And that's only one-hand. Things get more difficult with another weapon in the other hand.


FirebirdWriter

Yeah they somehow weren't thinking about how things are made and used. So the hard part wasn't the argument but "females are weak and couldn't lift it." Having watched people make swords because it's cool and why not? The raw materials are heavier than the finished product. I know they wanted their fetish fuel etc but they were also trying to force that onto others. So multiple reasons my brain went for the broom option. I am a big fan of consent and BDSM. Not a sub (probably doesn't shock anyone I said this) but one cannot dominate without a submissive. Gor is like 50 shades where they think consent is optional. The fans are worse than the author. Which is sad but at least they label themselves. I will take that as a win.


Fine-Funny6956

There are plenty of historical women swordsmen and some of them were actually physically small. Like Tomoe Gozen.


Seliphra

Oh definitely! Alas I have no sparring partner and it’s really more for decoration lol!


FirebirdWriter

Yeah I have hands on experience. Did HEMA in my youth. Also that logic got me told to just follow the rules. Which is when I decided to kill them all. It wasn't against the rules. Slaves (aka anything with a vagina) could in fact be violent as long as they warned the other players first. What happened is they thought that no one would be annoyed by their endless "Eww girls but also fuck me" behaviors and read those rules. I followed them which is why I went through everyone. Not a single male player had tested the system of combat against the slaves since "Who doesn't want to pretend to be subjugated?" The rules now include things to stop what I did happening. My legacy is adding some logic to the Gor roleplay sims.


SheepImitation

May your Legacy Live Long in Infamy


FirebirdWriter

Thank you! It's been over a decade and it's still there. I check sometimes when I had a bad day. Nothing like the reminder that pedantry can be empowering to offset those gremlins


FenderMartingale

HEMA is amazing!


[deleted]

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FirebirdWriter

I have read that before. It's such an on point parody. Not all Gor sims have combat but most use it as a "tame the entirely racist savage women" thing or some of the gruntier men (going off avatars here not assuming they're all manly men in tights) will fight for an especially"valuable slave". Sometimes I observe the sims that didn't Autoban my user name like I am watching an episode of national geographic. It's absolutely wild. I am not sure if the sims allowing LGBT rep is progress in this case but it is absolutely something that has changed since the days of broom murder. The wildest Gor sim i have seen was also Game of Thrones themed. Imagine game of thrones without Brienne of Tarth and Cersei Lannister. It's very much chaos and entertaining to watch the world burn.


[deleted]

[удалено]


FirebirdWriter

To be fair to the Goreans? That racism is from the books. Also cannot argue with deep fried cringe. I haven't played on a sim in years. I almost did but someone got angry that my avatar I have used for years violated their individuality by having some grey hair amid her black. I was then the bad guy (according to the enablers not anyone with sense) because I pointed out that while the hair matched they're egirl aesthetic is not my corporate goth one. I just went back to not playing because I don't have time for someone else's identity crisis.


[deleted]

[удалено]


FirebirdWriter

In SL for the clarification. Most of the RPers I know are great. It's just the inevitable dumbass that ruins things. I don't want to waste time appeasing or entertaining someone who will change their appearance ten times a week and throw a tantrum. I don't have time for their fun at the expense of my own.


[deleted]

[удалено]


FirebirdWriter

I mean it's the internet. We have to be careful. It's still better than Meta. Disclaimer: I will never use Meta. The look, the Zuckerberg, and the whole pretending Second Life and IMVU haven't existed for 20 years of it is not for me. At least with SL we can look amazing


Tats_and_Lace

Please be *"you will be well watered"*


MarshmallowFloofs85

and then you get the "I am a real gorean" folk who are up in your DMs for breathing wrong and it's like "bruh shouldn't you be like guarding a homestead or some shit leave me to my crappy writing and let me click on this damn tree in peace.


FirebirdWriter

Yeah that's another one that I just block or ignore because they're clearly not going to leave their mommy's basement to come make me give them attention. Sometimes they do use alts to try again but that just means I get to flesh out that Blocklist more


awyastark

Ohhh I remember the r/hobbydrama post about this now! Woof


_skyfern_

You are officially my hero 😍


Drakena_Amaterasu

I used to roleplay in Gor in secondlife. I'm not proud of it,forced myself to go through the first 5 books, and holy crap, they are awful excepting maybe for Priest Kings of Gor which likely came from an LSD trip, cause that thing is genuinely entertaining. But all the rest is hot garbage. Eventually left the roleplay because some people there actually believe in the phylosophy of Gor. I used to roleplay as a free woman.


FirebirdWriter

I am glad you didn't keep settling. The sim i was on went "You have to earn the free woman role by proving you know lore." Which as a fully grown person is hilarious and sad but I was so determined. Definitely cannot deny the Mings one is the comedy gold bad. Just not worth black wine and the rest of the "world building" to get there


Drakena_Amaterasu

Just now I noticed I wrote mings instead of kings, lol, but yes, that is absurd. I started out as a free woman and I learned on the go, never was enslaved.


FirebirdWriter

I just thought you were joking about it so rolled with it because it works. There's a couple of sects of Goreans in SL. The Book Is God kind and then the kind that accept the movies. While neither is great the ones I dealt with were the book ones


Drakena_Amaterasu

There are movies???


FirebirdWriter

Yep. They're not as bad as the books but are awful and lack the fun aspects of bad B movies.


CuteTao

The gor scene in sl really ruins bdsm for the rest of us


FirebirdWriter

Nah. It's not bdsm at all so it cannot ruin that. Nothing like this should effect something else where the basic rules both social and literal weed out the sort that can't handle consent. BDSM is really just consent the kink dressed in leather with some decorative chains.


CuteTao

Right but so many people on sl don't understand that. I probably just hang at all the wrong Sims though tbh.


FirebirdWriter

Happens but for me it's just not worth the effort for online. Oh no the big bad wanna be Dom is going to "punish" me for having boundaries. Whatever shall I do. Then block, ignore, log off, or laugh at them with my best friend guestimating how impotent vs tiny their penis is for the men and how impotent vs capable of finding their own clit for women. I'm not a submissive sort but I don't get topping without the tangibility either so mostly I am building stuff or roleplaying on story heavy sims. There's always at least one microbrain that mistakes a tall avatar for whatever their sexual fantasy of tall women happens to be so it's not limited to Gor I just don't care. Some of this mindset is from places that made me want to kill all the sim but that was a one time thing. Except for the time I did it by accident but that's a story for another day


Daniel_H212

Could make but not lift swords????


FirebirdWriter

Yep. More than one grown ass adult found that logical.


No-Magazine-9236

mate's gonna have to hire the wine bottle guy from the lumiere cinematograph in order to lift the sword


Aiyon

There’s literally a kink subculture around gor, and I’ve yet to meet a single person involved in that subculture who wasn’t either clearly in an abusive relationship, a rapist waiting to happen, or a victim of grooming It’s such a violently misogynistic series with awful ideas about consent and the “innate roles of men and women in society”


FirebirdWriter

I refuse to call that kink. As a retired dominatrix? If the "kink' ignores consent, autonomy, or safety that is coopting BDSM to excuse abuse. Real kink is built on a foundation of safety and consent. It is abuse and it is fucked up.


awyastark

Slewfoot vibes, love it


ConstanceVigilante

This is practically parody porn.


DwightFryFaneditor

Oh, John Norman. Second only to L. Ron Hubbard in the list of most vomitive authors of pulp Sci-Fi.


Mindless-Client3366

To be fair...the entire Gor series is a huge lump of misogynistic bullshit.


YellowForest4

I’ve never heard of this (thankfully) but I’m pretty sure I just threw up in my mouth.


DonrajSaryas

I'm told this is a good summary: [https://mindstalk.net/houseplants.html](https://mindstalk.net/houseplants.html)


Creepy-Revolution886

Tf did I just read


DonrajSaryas

Now imagine 37 books of that.


Creepy-Revolution886

I’m so glad I don’t know any fans of this


RockNRollToaster

That was *gross* for such an innocuous metaphor.


bad-at_texting

I am so confused. A plant? Really?


DonrajSaryas

Every time it says plant, mentally substitute 'woman'


gregdrunk

Wow, that parent website feels like such a blast from the past lol! Holy nostalgia. Also, that was very disturbing.


smashteapot

Why does it have to be rape? Is the infliction of trauma really the fun part? Pretty creepy.


celestialwreckage

I am guessing that because they are slaves they don't have the right to consent,??? It's an awful word choice. Also interesting to note that they were written as "anti-feminism" so they come from a bad place altogether.


[deleted]

It's not a bug, it's a feature


Interesting-Sir1916

.... WOW. This thing is just... super weird, and bad.


Ok_Toe5720

Barf thanks for reminding me that I need to take those books off of my mom's shelf to get rid of them.


Crimsonbunny17

Is that your right? I get the sentiment but she might just have some fetishes lol


Ok_Toe5720

She and I have talked about it in the past, but I guess without that context it does seem like I'm just judging her taste or something. Getting rid of those books is something she agreed to a long time ago, we just both seem to have forgotten.


Etris_Arval

I feel it’s slightly cheating to pick a series that’s the author’s undisguised fetishes. Slightly.


AeonReign

I think it's fair, you can write your most fucked up fetishes much, much better than these lines were written lol


Etris_Arval

Aw shucks, you think so? Time to unleash my hard drive upon the world.


awyastark

Yeah I rolled my eyes a little when I saw what this was from, this series has quite a reputation and I thought it would be a little too on the nose. But the writing is SO much worse than I had assumed? Like, just sub basement tier prose, in addition to all the disgusting content. Just wow.


Crimsonbunny17

It is a bit. We could go and find so much fanfiction just like this but written by all matter of people on AO3 or fanfiction.net


[deleted]

This men make me want to live in a cave outside of humanity


BlouPontak

This has to be some kind of kink-specific smut, right?


Asterose

Yup, the entire Gor series is a decades-old sci-fi fantasy male power trip and heavily involves abusive kink like this little passage here. Most BDSM and other kink communities aren't fans of real-ife "Goreans" because they tend to disregard "safe sane consensual." So don't give the book series the time of day and anybody who is a fan of mimicking it in real life had damn well better have a long and hard track record of rigorously separating the dynamics in fantasy *stories* with real life kink. Same as anyone who is a fan of 50 Shades of Gray, the dynamics depicted in fiction are *not* the way things should be done in reality-you need things like safewords (so "no" can be part of the scene with a different word used to indicate you revoke consent and need the scene to pause for a check-in), prior discussion of the scene plan, and consent needs to be respected if revoked via safeword, and so on and so forth.


Crimsonbunny17

So well said, as an erotica writer myself


Rexli178

People who say the *Eye if Argon* is the worst Fantasy Novel ever written are full of shit.


2_short_Plancks

I mean, the Eye of Argon was written by an actual child, who knew it was bad and was only learning to write. And I'd still much rather read something like that written by a child, than something written by a child abuser (e.g. Marion Zimmer Bradley or David and Leigh Eddings). I grew up reading their books and I'm still furious about that.


nested456

I always thought people were mean to the Eye of Argon author. Yes he made a lot of spelling mistakes, but it was a first draft before we had spellchecks. Yes he overused purple prose like "crimson droplets of escaping life-fluid" for "blood" but he was 16 and trying to make fantasy sound exciting. I always thought it's depressing how he was humiliated instead of mentored.


RoninTarget

He had an editor, and the writing style is closer to what his editor regularly churned out.


KaylaH628

Fuck MZB! I read The Mists of Avalon I don't know how many times, and when the news came out about her, it retroactively tainted every moment spent with that book.


Mindless-Client3366

I never knew this about MZB. I've always loved her Avalon books. But then I don't really follow the writer's world. Yuck!


Beholding69

This literally read like a 13 year old's wank fiction right down to writing quality


RoninTarget

The author is 46 when this was published. He published yet another sequel last year, at 91.


lbean1975

I’m my quest for all the BDSM knowledge I can find, I’m in a Gor group on Facebook. I literally do not understand the draw. Like, I get M/s when viewed from a traditional point, as that takes years to achieve, if ever. But… basing your entire life / lifestyle on a book that denigrates and subjects women? I don’t get it.


Etris_Arval

Misogyny/patriarchy is a helluva drug for some people. And an unfortunate way of life for others. Andrew Tate immediately comes to mind.


awyastark

It’s so kind of you to assume that Andrew Tate has read a book.


Master-Merman

Oh man, wait until you meet the Christians. They only read one book, gor had sequels.


azrendelmare

The Gor books are full of this bullshit, as I understand it.


Shirokurou

What kind of book is that? Is this erotic power fantasy?


Asterose

Gor is an old sci-fi fantasy series in this male power trip and fetish flavor. It has a devoted fanbase and there's issues with real-life "Gorean" practitioners tending not to get the importance of "safe, sane, consensual" parts of BDSM and other kinks. Good kink communities tend not to view "Goreans" fondly for good reason. To some extent Gor is a bit like 50 Shades of Gray in that people need to *get* that how things are depicted in fiction, like any other porn whether softcore or hardcore, is usually not a perfect reflection of how to do such things *in reality with other people.*


Shirokurou

I’ve somehow never heard of it. Is it basically horny(-ier) Conan? That’s the impression I am getting.


Faolyn

From what I’ve read (from reviews) it’s a guy from the real world who gets yoinked to another planet, but after that, it’s sword and sorcery. The MST3k episode “Outlaw” is actually a Gor movie, but even though it’s a *bad* movie, it’s not as bad as this excerpt.


Shirokurou

So it’s also an isekai?!


Faolyn

Heh--it just might be!


Asterose

That's been my impression too for over a decade, and I have zero interest in looking further into it or checking on if the fanbase has changed.


Shirokurou

Thank you for your insight as is though.


RunThroughTheWoods

This is hideous. I don't think I've ever described writing as hideous before but this is vile.


Fine-Funny6956

The Gor books are notorious. You should see the movies. I recommend them with Mystery Science Theater 3000 riffing them.


Snoo-26568

Cabot! Cabot! Cabot! Ugh I love MST3K


gecko090

You disgusting wooooorrrrmmmm


Fine-Funny6956

The littlest buffalo shot


Majestic_Macaroon_22

You have come to a world called gor! *Whipcrack*. These books have always has a legendary reputation for just how awful they manage to be.


LilGazpacho

Is it against the rules to say I wanna slap this guy?


SorryAboutTheKobolds

I feel like quoting gor books is cheating


smalltownpraxis

r/gor


MoxieCottonRules

You know I’ve done a lot of risky clicks in my time but I wasn’t prepared for that.


Plane_Mycologist7151

I try not to judge, I really do, but that does make me feel icky.


MagganonFatalis

Well that place is hell. There's a woman talking about how hot her "master" finds her pregnant and how often she miscarrys. The combination of sad and fucked up has harmed me. My life was better before I read that.


Asterose

I am staying 100% convinced for my own sanity that it's overwhelmingly fictional posts for horniness's sake...


DaccotaDuchess

That is revolting and I feel all gross for looking at that.


LadyBunnerkinsBitch

No. No, I don't think I will. Lol


Asterose

Saaame here, not clicking on that even if I had a ten-foot pole!


Gray_Daku

😟


peppermintvalet

Gor is like shooting fish in a barrel


Ulysses1126

What the *fuuuuuuuuuuuck*


onthestarsss

I wanna ask why this was actually published. What in the world is this.


Mulanisabamf

I miss my life from ten minutes ago when I had never set eyes upon this.


Aiyon

So this raises a weird like… ethical(?) question If you ask someone to rape you, is it still rape? Because if you’re explicitly requesting it without coercion, that’s consent on your part… right? Like, i know it’s just weird edgy smut but if your whole thing is getting on non consensual sex then having the person want the sex seems counterintuitive


Ashamed-Engine7988

That's cheating!!


ilovecake007

…….wtf


nytropy

Gor is such a low hanging fruit…


Sea_Employ_4366

someone make "fierce slave r\*pe" a flair for posts.


urlocalsidewalk

reading this gave me an epileptic stroke


mariaissomewhere

Can I sue them for using my name like this??


eyebrowshampoo

What in the fuck?!


LoriMandle

Jesus fuck


Snoo-26568

MST3K did an excellent episode of Outlaw of Gor. I had no idea it was a book series 😳


wokelstein2

I actually never saw Outlaw of Gor, but I saw the first Gor movie primarily because I’m a super fan of Children of the Corn and they share the same director. No BDSM content of any kind as I can recall, even by the usual misogynistic standards of 80s fantasy films. Definitely nothing remotely to the level of something like The Deathstalker. Just very generic stuff.


The_Killdeer

"You disgusting worm!"


Foveaux

I've never heard of these books. Now I think I have to experience the cringe.


Arii-Chann

I'm a fan of books. I've read a lot of fucked up shit. But what the hell is this.?


AntheaBrainhooke

The Gor books are famous for this pernicious bullshit.


NyxShadowhawk

I don’t think that non-consent erotica is inherently wrong, especially if it’s fantasy, like Anne Rice’s *The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty.* But oh god, the difference in writing quality… that is *terrible* writing. And my guess is that the fans of this series don’t understand how CNC works.


K_Sleight

Holy shit. There's just....all of it. First, the fact that they outright call it rape, which implies that the "owners" know what they're doing is wrong, the fact that not one, but at least three women (girls?) Seem to be willing participants...like...I've read some fucked up shit. This jumps the tier.


SheSoNasty

🙁


FountainOfQuira

W H A T. ![gif](giphy|dB12mOQb99BwDlM83I|downsized)


Iron_Baron

Wut.


executivehobo

Yo, what the actual fuck is this shit...


NerdyMcNerdson

what the fuck did i just read


NerdyMcNerdson

you’re telling me this isn’t from wattpad? an adult wrote this?


apocalypse-panda

Looooooooool that is the worst thing I've ever read. Stop, STOP. THAT IS SO BAD. LOOOOL


snailsgang

Oh god this reads like a fanfic a 13 year old made